Guild Wars 2

BobbyStein.2315:

Sariel V.7024:

to be contrasted with a writing department that won’t make fixes to cover the minutiae when they forget some random fact. So, you know, this goes both ways.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category_talk:Lore_discrepancies

See the Updates by Dev section.

We’re totally open to fixing certain narrative issues if they’re brought to our attention. Just please document them in a factual, neutral manner and we’ll take a look. Please remember items are all subject to review, approval, scoping, scheduling, etc.

I just stumbled on this independently (was checking wiki updates) and came here to apologize :#) So, I’m sorry for doubting you guys. I remember the hullabaloo that happened around the time of dating Scarlet’s birth and rolling my eyes at both sides.

Obsidian.1328:

By that rationale, only the most current writing matters then.

Sure glad Terminator Genysis is coming out, I hear Cameron was all /sadpanda at the obviously non-canon Rise of the Machines and Salvation. He even wants you to pretend those two never existed, even though he did not write/direct them…nor Genysis.

I’m so confuzzled!!

You do really not know how comic books work. You take a world design, you take writers, and you move it along and retcon to maintain interesting storytelling. The person who wrote the character Jean Grey has absolutely no relevance to how she is in the canon Marvel story arcs today. Marvel decides the canon worlds. Anet decides the canon Guild Wars 2 Lore. Whether you like Jean in issue xyz or issue tlw, it doesn’t matter. The canon Jean Grey for a certain universe is the current one. The story has to keep moving.

Its a living story, where did we hear that before?

Obsidian.1328:

By that rationale, only the most current writing matters then.

Sure glad Terminator Genysis is coming out, I hear Cameron was all /sadpanda at the obviously non-canon Rise of the Machines and Salvation. He even wants you to pretend those two never existed, even though he did not write/direct them…nor Genysis.

I’m so confuzzled!!

Not true at all. All the writing matters. Old lore is still lore, but it does take a back seat to new lore. New discoveries added to the world. Back during Prophecies, a game written 100% from the human perspective, we didn’t know that Ascalon belonged to the charr first. Later on, with new insight from the charr race, we do. This in no way contradicts the old lore. It’s a simple addition to what we already knew, such as that humans were brought to Tyria by their gods and not native to this world.

What you’re trying to say is that everything we learn in the games after Prophecies isn’t canon because it wasn’t written by the same guy, but that isn’t how canon works. That writer doesn’t own the franchise, he only worked for the people who did. He ultimately left the project and new writers were brought in, thus they have the same degree of creative control over the world as he did. If new writers want to expand into areas of the lore that were left blank beforehand they are fully in their right to do that, otherwise we’d never get new stories.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The story has to keep moving.

And right there is the nail on the head.

When anyone gets to the point where you drift too far from the core narrative, you’ve already gone too far. I really don’t care that Marvel gets to say what is and isn’t true in the X-Men world, everyone with half a brain can see what is the original intent and portrayal. And the farther you stray from that, the farther you get from the truth.

There’s a reason why everyone dislikes Schumacher’s Batman movies, and it’s not because they just don’t like his style. It’s because his version doesn’t do Batman justice. Calling that canon, or whatever, is not just silly, but wrong.

Obsidian.1328:

Daniel Handler.4816:

The story has to keep moving.

And right there is the nail on the head.

When anyone gets to the point where you drift too far from the core narrative, you’ve already gone too far. I really don’t care that Marvel gets to say what is and isn’t true in the X-Men world, everyone with half a brain can see what is the original intent and portrayal. And the farther you stray from that, the farther you get from the truth.

There’s a reason why everyone dislikes Schumacher’s Batman movies, and it’s not because they just don’t like his style. It’s because his version doesn’t do Batman justice. Calling that canon, or whatever, is not just silly, but wrong.

This is from the wikipedia entry on Dawn Summers, the character that Joss Whedon retconnned into the Buffy Universe. It shows what a lot of the people on this forums are going for. Not a statement on lore, but a statement on writing.

Responding to fan complaints of Dawn being whiny throughout Season Six, Joss Whedon says, “I scratched my head. I was like, ‘Excuse me, she’s been abandoned by about six parental figures. The girl has huge issues.’” However, he acknowledges that he and the writers hit “the same note for a while… We needed to make some changes.”⁶ Whedon has expressed regret over not being able to go further with Dawn’s character in season seven, but, as he says, "You get into a situation that you do like to stand alone [but] ‘Dawn Goes on a Date’ is not something that people would really sit for

We aren’t talking about adaptations on batman. We are talking about the core universe for Gw1. The one that is only canon if it is written by Anet staff. This is not fanfiction. This is not an adaptation. And Jess Lebow was not the novelist for Gw1, he was essentially a comic book writer. He wrote Gw1 edition 1. And whether or not you hate the editions that came afterwards is irrelevant to whether or not they are canon. He was a world designer, not the sole writer. Anything that happened after he gave his depiction was not up to him.

You have utterly no concept of what Jess Lebow intended other than the initial conditions of the world he designed. To assume he would require the world to stay at initial conditions, or that his work has strayed from the core narrative is just conceited.

What is the core narrative for Gw1? Humanity is strong? Who elected you to be the sole interpreter of what is “core” gw1. Does anyone else get to decide as you say what is and isn’t canon based on your literary interpretation of the “core” narrative.

We will never know what Dawn Summers could have turned into if people weren’t so busy trying to get a job on television as one of the shows writers.

If you want to send Anet angry fanmail by all means do so. But the forum is about discussion, not a tirade.

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

Lostwingman.5034:

Kalavier.1097:

513137kitteninz.6915:

Secondly, the technology we see the charr having is mainly the domain of the Iron Legion. The Ash and Blood still much lower tech in their own lands. Blood actually leans quite heavily on warbeasts over high tech engineering. Do remember we have only seen the Iron Legion lands which are by the nature of the Legions the heart of Charr engineering.

Just going to pop in and tell you that shortly after creating the Ghostbore Musket, both Blood AND Ash legion have successfully recreated and modified it to both work as either a small remote turret or a giant cannon.

Hard to do if they were behind Iron Legion in terms of tech. They just have less Engineers is all.

Eh, there’s a difference between R&D and reproduction. We don’t entirely know the logistics behind it so either the Iron Legion is supplying them of the other two legions have been given the plans for it.

Yeah, but the plans were for a rifle, not a cannon or a small mobile turret.

There is elements of R&D involved in turning it to either item :P. Either way, it’s not so much of Ash or Blood being behind Iron legion majorly, and more of Iron Legion has way more engineers. And that we are in Iron Legion lands.

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

There is a benefit to one writing, “I think” or “in my opinion” before a declaration of fact.
“The cows and their insatiable desire for entertainment have ruined it for us all.” No, it has ruined it for you. Shut up and use a phrase like “in my humble opinion”, its not that hard.

As for your other nonsense, rehabilitation of ducklings occasionally requires costumes. This also applies to instructing certain animals on how to catch prey.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

There is a benefit to one writing, “I think” or “in my opinion” before a declaration of fact.
“The cows and their insatiable desire for entertainment have ruined it for us all.” No, it has ruined it for you. Shut up and use a phrase like “in my humble opinion”, its not that hard.

As for your other nonsense, rehabilitation of ducklings occasionally requires costumes. This also applies to instructing certain animals on how to catch prey.

Sir, please stop making this personal. You have no call to insult me or anyone else here.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

There is a benefit to one writing, “I think” or “in my opinion” before a declaration of fact.
“The cows and their insatiable desire for entertainment have ruined it for us all.” No, it has ruined it for you. Shut up and use a phrase like “in my humble opinion”, its not that hard.

As for your other nonsense, rehabilitation of ducklings occasionally requires costumes. This also applies to instructing certain animals on how to catch prey.

Sir, please stop making this personal. You have no call to insult me or anyone else here.

Edit: ironically enough, it seems you missed the ‘IMO’ in my post referencing Dawn.

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

There is a benefit to one writing, “I think” or “in my opinion” before a declaration of fact.
“The cows and their insatiable desire for entertainment have ruined it for us all.” No, it has ruined it for you. Shut up and use a phrase like “in my humble opinion”, its not that hard.

As for your other nonsense, rehabilitation of ducklings occasionally requires costumes. This also applies to instructing certain animals on how to catch prey.

Sir, please stop making this personal. You have no call to insult me or anyone else here.

Edit: ironically enough, it seems you missed the ‘IMO’ in my post referencing Dawn.

1. You have the audacity to refer to people as cows, and then talk about rights to insult.
2. Shut up is not an insult, it is a rude remark in response to being called a cow, but it is not an insult.
3. Your IMO was in defense of what caused the season to dismal. It was not used when you declared the season to be dismal, only used when you were trying to justify what. As if season six being dismal was already a fact.

BobbyStein.2315:

Sariel V.7024:

to be contrasted with a writing department that won’t make fixes to cover the minutiae when they forget some random fact. So, you know, this goes both ways.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category_talk:Lore_discrepancies

See the Updates by Dev section.

We’re totally open to fixing certain narrative issues if they’re brought to our attention. Just please document them in a factual, neutral manner and we’ll take a look. Please remember items are all subject to review, approval, scoping, scheduling, etc.

This one is for inconsistent lore – is it also appropriate for dialogue that is inappropriate to specific characters (based on personal story choices, for example)? There’s a few lines that just don’t work right, such as a norn flirting with the PC’s female asura, or a Son of Svanir calling a charr a “skirt-wearing wench”.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tachenon.5270:

Season 6 was pretty dismal, not because of Dawn, IMO, but in large part because of the bizarre tug of war the writers were having with Spike while Whedon was focused on Firefly (and writing the musical episode). Whose fault was it? Whedon’s, for being distracted? Marti Noxon’s, for not being Whedon? Who knows! But a lot of what had made the series fun was missing in action that season.

As for Guild Wars, the lore took a turn for the silly in GW2 — not just the occasional clever reference to pop culture (drakes on a plain), which is fine, really, in moderation, but toward the truly silly — and I don’t see it ever making a recovery. See previous posts for details.

In direct response to your first paragraph I bring you comments from Joss Wheedon’s detailing complaints about season 6.

exit me, pursued by bear
Posted by: Joss – May 22, 2002, 2:15 AM
There is no bear. That was a lie. But I am leaving. Just wanted to say thanks for watching, y’all come back, etc… also, I read occasionally that people haven’t been as happy with this year (actually, I hear that every year), show’s not the same… not from eveeryone, but it comes up, and I just wanna say this: Dis not th’ Nox. Say not that I’m not into it, Marti’s not getting it done, anything of that sort… Fact is, I’m in this show up to my neck always. Same With Angel and yup, Firefly too. And I’ve read that I’ve blown off one for the other — He’s over Buffy, Firefly is just a contractual obligation, he didn’t even CREATE the Rockford Files, why’s he taking credit for it… I’ve heard it all. And it ain’t necessarily so. Marti (She of the great brain and great beauty) and I shaped this year very carefully, and while we made mistakes (as we do every year), we made our show. We explored what we wanted to, said what we meant. You don’t have to like it, but don’t think it comes from neglect. That would give me hurty feelings. Next year is gonna be the greatest challenge of my life, but I’ve got all three shows lined up thematically, i’ve got amazing writers and stupendous casts, I’m excited. It feels like the beginning. Joss, year one.

Just wait.

Your second paragraph has errors similar to the first. You are making objective comments for the entire fanbase. Stop it. YOU feel it is sillier. And yes maybe others do too. But that does not necessarily make it the objective view, nor does it make Gw2 better or worse than Gw1. And what is the kitten point of discussing your disappointments. You said earlier there was no lore. Okay good, lets just end the discussion now and delete the subforum. Better to just end it all than constastly have people like you assuming author’s intent and public opinion. You and obsidian are the type of people that would give Joss Wheedon “hurty feelings.”

Sir, where did I say, or even imply, that I spoke for anyone but myself? Show me. Please. Quote the exact words that have lead you to this conclusion.

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

There is a benefit to one writing, “I think” or “in my opinion” before a declaration of fact.
“The cows and their insatiable desire for entertainment have ruined it for us all.” No, it has ruined it for you. Shut up and use a phrase like “in my humble opinion”, its not that hard.

As for your other nonsense, rehabilitation of ducklings occasionally requires costumes. This also applies to instructing certain animals on how to catch prey.

Sir, please stop making this personal. You have no call to insult me or anyone else here.

Edit: ironically enough, it seems you missed the ‘IMO’ in my post referencing Dawn.

1. You have the audacity to refer to people as cows, and then talk about rights to insult.
2. Shut up is not an insult, it is a rude remark in response to being called a cow, but it is not an insult.
3. Your IMO was in defense of what caused the season to dismal. It was not used when you declared the season to be dismal, only used when you were trying to justify what. As if season six being dismal was already a fact.

I called no one a cow. If you are unfamiliar with that particular event, here it is:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Put_on_a_cow_disguise_and_demonstrate_techniques_to_the_cows

Once more: please stop making personal comments/attacks.

Pyro.4765:

The centaur use human aggression from hundreds of years ago to justify their war for territory and are pure black villains […] Guild Wars lore simply is not a consistent thing, and in hindsight it doesn’t make a lot of sense to care about it that much.

Actually, the lore seems to be quite consistent for the most part from what I’ve seen, and the centaurs aren’t pure black villains. Even if we don’t count the more peaceful Maguuma centaurs into the equation, there are clues in Pact Tyria (aka the vanilla game) that the Modniir are actually forcing the Harathi and the Tamini to work alongside them and provide the Modniir with soldiers and engineers for the war against humans. Ulgoth the War King, a high-ranking modniir, is in charge of this large-scale campaign until we defeat him in the meta event chain in Harathi Hinterlands.

If you want to learn more about the centaur and their rather intriguing lore, I’d suggest checking the GW2 wiki page about centaurs as well as this informative Dolyak Express post (look for the section in that post with Scott McGough’s reply) where the writers tell us, among other things, a bit more about centaur society and pretty much confirm the clues already found in Pact Tyria about this rather shaky and abusive centaur alliance.

I understand that the Ulgoth meta event chain in Harathi Hinterlands will remain as it is because the vanilla Tyria maps are pretty much stuck in time (see Orr) with few exceptions made by the Living World, so we’ll continue seeing “past” events occur and reoccur indefinitely even though canonically Ulgoth is now dead. However, wouldn’t it be great that if we ever get to see maps beyond the Hinterlands and enter actual centaur settlements with children and the elderly, we’d see the centaur story move a bit onward on those future maps to show the centaur alliance post-Ulgoth defeat and if the Harathi and the Tamini will eventually get fed up and organize a rebellion against the oppressive Modniir with help from the player?

Lots of great story possibilities in there and giving more players a chance to see the centaurs as more grey antagonists in a similar vein to the Lionguard/centaur treaty events. It would be cool to visit centaur settlements and talk with more peaceful centaur NPCs there with that little hint that perhaps the centaur/human conflict can eventually have a peaceful resolution. A Dawn Cycle sylvari like my character can dream of such a day, right?

Tachenon.5270:

And yes, the lore of GW2 IS silly. Unless you have some other description for a GW2 character pretending to be a cow to train cows to fight?

I think you’re using a bit of hyperbole there.

Yes, GW2 definitely has its silly elements (which I find rather charming), but it’s definitely balanced out by its share of drama, tragedy and horror. The Claw Island arc in Personal Story shows us the horrors of war against an unthinkable foe as did the Orr campaign where we lost many allies and friends, Scarlet’s assault on Lion’s Arch showed us the civilian cost with those rather graphic depictions of the miasma’s almost mustard gas like effect which cost the lives of adults and children alike, leaving many families broken forever when parents/children perished. We also get psychological horror during the Tower of Nightmares arc as well as Scarlet’s backstory itself which we gradually learn through her journals and recordings. “I’ve seen the Eternal Alchemy” with that distorted voice as Ceara becomes Scarlet Briar is quite creepy and not comedic at all. Let’s not forget the death of Belinda which downright traumatized Marjory, or Wynne’s ultimate fate in Caithe’s story. And now we have the destruction of the Pact fleet and the revelation about the sylvari’s intended destiny which will put the sylvari through their toughest challenges yet as their loyalties are put into question.

Orr itself is heavy on tragedy, not only because of its majestically gloomy music like Hope Falls which I’ll forever associate with the once prosperous kingdom’s fall from grace and tragic perversion into an Elder Dragon’s playground, but also because as you speak with NPCs there, study the landscape and learn the history and fall of the nation and its people, you see just how depressing a place it really is. Not only that, but we even have stories with elements of classical tragedy there such as Malchor’s story which resonates throughout the Malchor’s Leap map.

I feel the writers of GW2 have managed to balance silly elements with drama quite well; too much silliness, and the story loses its weight, but too much doom and gloom, and the setting becomes grimdark just for the sake of being edgy, which is never a good thing either. We need to have moments of comedy for this reason, and that’s part of the reason why the sadness one feels in Orr is all the more powerful as it differs so much from the more cheerful adventures of earlier maps (which, however, also have their share of drama in good doses). As we venture deeper into Maguuma Jungle, we’ve already seen hints of fanatic hylek trying to convert their itzel and nuhoch cousins, and I’m pretty sure more dramatic stuff is also on its way as the fight against Mordremoth intensifies.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Obsidian.1328:

Daniel Handler.4816:

The story has to keep moving.

And right there is the nail on the head.

When anyone gets to the point where you drift too far from the core narrative, you’ve already gone too far. I really don’t care that Marvel gets to say what is and isn’t true in the X-Men world, everyone with half a brain can see what is the original intent and portrayal. And the farther you stray from that, the farther you get from the truth.

There’s a reason why everyone dislikes Schumacher’s Batman movies, and it’s not because they just don’t like his style. It’s because his version doesn’t do Batman justice. Calling that canon, or whatever, is not just silly, but wrong.

This is from the wikipedia entry on Dawn Summers, the character that Joss Whedon retconnned into the Buffy Universe. It shows what a lot of the people on this forums are going for. Not a statement on lore, but a statement on writing.

Responding to fan complaints of Dawn being whiny throughout Season Six, Joss Whedon says, “I scratched my head. I was like, ‘Excuse me, she’s been abandoned by about six parental figures. The girl has huge issues.’” However, he acknowledges that he and the writers hit “the same note for a while… We needed to make some changes.”⁶ Whedon has expressed regret over not being able to go further with Dawn’s character in season seven, but, as he says, "You get into a situation that you do like to stand alone [but] ‘Dawn Goes on a Date’ is not something that people would really sit for

We aren’t talking about adaptations on batman. We are talking about the core universe for Gw1. The one that is only canon if it is written by Anet staff. This is not fanfiction. This is not an adaptation. And Jess Lebow was not the novelist for Gw1, he was essentially a comic book writer. He wrote Gw1 edition 1. And whether or not you hate the editions that came afterwards is irrelevant to whether or not they are canon. He was a world designer, not the sole writer. Anything that happened after he gave his depiction was not up to him.

You have utterly no concept of what Jess Lebow intended other than the initial conditions of the world he designed. To assume he would require the world to stay at initial conditions, or that his work has strayed from the core narrative is just conceited.

What is the core narrative for Gw1? Humanity is strong? Who elected you to be the sole interpreter of what is “core” gw1. Does anyone else get to decide as you say what is and isn’t canon based on your literary interpretation of the “core” narrative.

We will never know what Dawn Summers could have turned into if people weren’t so busy trying to get a job on television as one of the shows writers.

If you want to send Anet angry fanmail by all means do so. But the forum is about discussion, not a tirade.

- tells me we aren’t talking about Batman
- proceeds into Buffy analogy…

“You have utterly no concept of what Jess Lebow intended other than the initial conditions of the world he designed.”

Oh I certainly have a concept of it. Anyone with half a brain can have a concept of thematic elements in writing after reading a story. Do I or anyone else have a complete understanding of it? Of course not. That’s why glean what you can from the material at hand. But to say it’s irrelevant to do so is irrelevant itself. It’s generally considered normal to talk about the writing, good or bad, in the lore forum…I’m not sure why you think being critical is out of line.

As for Jess, I have no idea why being a comic book writer as opposed to a novelist carries any import to the discussion at hand. Is one supposed to be legit and the other not? You’re right that anything that happened after he left was not up to him…isn’t that one of the reasons we all are here?

“Does anyone else get to decide as you say what is and isn’t canon based on your literary interpretation of the “core” narrative?"

Absolutely…everyone does. You see, a story’s existence isn’t dependent on who owns the rights to it. That’s a legal concept that has nothing to do with a story’s integrity. A story has a life of its own, it exists whether or not anyone owns it. “Deciding” what is and isn’t an honest reflection of the original work is a simple matter of honest comparison.

As a side note, I find it infinitely hilarious that some companies have no problem “owning up” a story and doing with it whatever they wish when that whole idea is predicated on the existence of the original story in the first place.

One thing is that there are other race that have hate for Humans. The leader of Modniir tribe hates the Human for this. Modniir Ulgoth united the Modniir after they were almost brought to extinction 200 years ago by the humans and norn, and then used the Modniir to dominate the Harathi and Tamini tribes. Now, he seeks revenge on those who crushed his ancestors. The hate for Humans are strong across Tyria >.<
Reason why I dont like Human race. =P

As previously indicated, I’m not entirely opposed to funny moments along the way — and silly things do sometimes happen in the midst of tragedy — but wearing a cow disguise to demonstrate fighting techniques to cows is just too much. See also: feeding bugs to cows. Cheering up moody cows. Entertaining cows. I grew up on a farm. We had cows. That’s not how it works. One might argue that these are fantasy cows, but that, I feel, only supports my position that there’s no point taking the lore of GW2 seriously. If even the most commonplace of things, like tending cows, is farce and fantasy, then literally anything can happen, and nothing matters.

The event in Diessa Plateau with Mad Mardine using a ‘cattlepult’ to fling cows at that tower is pretty silly, but the fact that the object isn’t to put a stop to the ‘cattle-pulting’, but to defend the cows from harpies while Mardine uses them as ammo for target practice — that’s just too much. See also: placing bets on the distances attained, and our characters themselves being hurled to the top of the tower from that same ‘cattlepult’. That’s not silly. That’s our characters being insane. And, if not for the safety net of ‘hey, fantasy!’, suicidal.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defend_Mad_Mardine's_cows_from_harpies_while_he_tests_his_invention

Excessive silliness, I believe, as depicted in the Season 5 episode of Buffy, Crush, in which Spike kidnaps Drusilla and Buffy and is ultimately humiliated by Buffy, Drusilla, and Harmony, and in which Buffy doesn’t lift a finger to prevent Drusilla or Harmony from walking away afterward because, hey, they are vampires without chips in their heads to prevent them from committing future acts of murder and mayhem, but that’s not the point because this episode was funny, ha ha, and in the GW2 events cited above, serves only to undermine the emotional impact of a story like the one being told here. It diminishes the Big Picture, if you will. Brings down the overarching lore.

Tonn’s wife, for another, slightly less whimsical example of silliness. What if, instead of Ceera being so overwhelmingly overwhelmed with grief that she would dash madly off, endangering herself and others, something like this had happened:

Our characters give Ceera the sad news. At that instant, risen attack. Swarm them, and all that. Then, when the fight is over — hey, where is Ceera? Alive? Dead? We look, and find her, tending to a wounded soldier. We inquire: are you all right? “No,” she says. “I’m not all right. I’ll never be all right again. But this soldier, his friends and family, his wife, if he has one… they’ll be all right. For a while, at least.” She moves to another wounded soldier. “Thank you for bringing me the news… about Tonn. Now, if you’ll excuse me. I have work to do.”

Anyway, that’s how I would have done it. I could go on and on about other stuff, like the sylvari, or the Pact, but I’ve already touched upon those topics elsewhere, my coffee is cold, and it’s almost time for lunch.

In closing, for me, the silliness of certain GW2 events detracts from the overall GW2 story (and lore) so greatly that the more serious moments not only fail to compensate, but are robbed of meaning. I often feel things are done on the spur of the moment, because ‘cool!’, without consideration for the impact on past or future events, and I often feel that whoever is ultimately responsible for the story really doesn’t care. That’s how I feel. Me. Not necessarily anyone else. And while I feel I shouldn’t have to specifically specify it in every single sentence, this is all, in my opinion, my opinion. Mine! But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to share. So there!

You comment on batman movies not considered canon to the core universe, they are adaptations. Buffy was the core universe, I am not asking about Buffy comics or fan fiction, I am talking about the show itself. And I compare your argument to saying the final seasons of heroes weren’t canon because they were terrible. That’s not how it works.

Talking about writing good or bad is fine. Complaining about writing good or bad is not. Should you log into a Twilight forum to discuss how much you hate Twilight? Should people devote topics to how annoying Quaggans are? It is within their right but unless approached right they are just trite. The question becomes what are you seeking to add by just saying you don’t like something.

It’s not the rights that matter what matters is deciding the central storyline. With comics there are hundreds and hundreds of versions, storyline and arcs. Canon is making sense of it all, this happened in that universe this did not, that was a dream. It is a fan and company based process, but for simplicity sake it uses official works first.

You are trying to argue that Gw2 is not canon because it strayed from the core narrative.

Please make that argument. I would actually like to hear it. Then we can start discussing things again rather than just making comments into the void.

@tacheon if you are going to appeal to ad hominem I would recommend coming up with examples. And look at the order your cow comments in the forum, and whether the one that I referred to mentioned anything related to dressing up as a cow. The only personal thing I believe was me saying you give Joss Wheedon hurty feelings, and this was after giving a quote from him that showed yes in that instance you would have given him hurty feelings.

A call to restructure a debate is sometimes useful. I respect the opinions of everyone who back up their opinions. I don’t like people who treat the forums like it’s twitter or Facebook. Even a person called to the stand in a court of law to complain is bound by laws of hearsay.

Ultimately it’s about how casual you want the discussion to be. Where in my opinion is it appropriate to include unsubstantiated information and where it is not. I even think the comments of people loving Quaggans are trite, but I bet they give people more enjoyment than the posts about disliking, better to start a discussion than a survey.

Example 1: I disliked that Malomedies was tortured by Asura because he is a firstborn and it was some of his first experiences of the world. It also was probably added to the Dream and fed the Nightmare.

Example 2: I dislike that Malomedies was tortured by Asura because it doesn’t fit with the mood of the writing. It wouldn’t have happened if Jane Doe hadn’t left the game to work on fakegame. This just marks a trend of things wrong with guild wars since I took an arrow to my knee.

tldr; explain if you complain

Tachenon.5270:

As previously indicated, I’m not entirely opposed to funny moments along the way — and silly things do sometimes happen in the midst of tragedy — but wearing a cow disguise to demonstrate fighting techniques to cows is just too much. See also: feeding bugs to cows. Cheering up moody cows. Entertaining cows. I grew up on a farm. We had cows. That’s not how it works. One might argue that these are fantasy cows, but that, I feel, only supports my position that there’s no point taking the lore of GW2 seriously. If even the most commonplace of things, like tending cows, is farce and fantasy, then literally anything can happen, and nothing matters.

The event in Diessa Plateau with Mad Mardine using a ‘cattlepult’ to fling cows at that tower is pretty silly, but the fact that the object isn’t to put a stop to the ‘cattle-pulting’, but to defend the cows from harpies while Mardine uses them as ammo for target practice — that’s just too much. See also: placing bets on the distances attained, and our characters themselves being hurled to the top of the tower from that same ‘cattlepult’. That’s not silly. That’s our characters being insane. And, if not for the safety net of ‘hey, fantasy!’, suicidal.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defend_Mad_Mardine's_cows_from_harpies_while_he_tests_his_invention

Excessive silliness, I believe, as depicted in the Season 5 episode of Buffy, Crush, in which Spike kidnaps Drusilla and Buffy and is ultimately humiliated by Buffy, Drusilla, and Harmony, and in which Buffy doesn’t lift a finger to prevent Drusilla or Harmony from walking away afterward because, hey, they are vampires without chips in their heads to prevent them from committing future acts of murder and mayhem, but that’s not the point because this episode was funny, ha ha, and in the GW2 events cited above, serves only to undermine the emotional impact of a story like the one being told here. It diminishes the Big Picture, if you will. Brings down the overarching lore.

Tonn’s wife, for another, slightly less whimsical example of silliness. What if, instead of Ceera being so overwhelmingly overwhelmed with grief that she would dash madly off, endangering herself and others, something like this had happened:

Our characters give Ceera the sad news. At that instant, risen attack. Swarm them, and all that. Then, when the fight is over — hey, where is Ceera? Alive? Dead? We look, and find her, tending to a wounded soldier. We inquire: are you all right? “No,” she says. “I’m not all right. I’ll never be all right again. But this soldier, his friends and family, his wife, if he has one… they’ll be all right. For a while, at least.” She moves to another wounded soldier. “Thank you for bringing me the news… about Tonn. Now, if you’ll excuse me. I have work to do.”

Anyway, that’s how I would have done it. I could go on and on about other stuff, like the sylvari, or the Pact, but I’ve already touched upon those topics elsewhere, my coffee is cold, and it’s almost time for lunch.

In closing, for me, the silliness of certain GW2 events detracts from the overall GW2 story (and lore) so greatly that the more serious moments not only fail to compensate, but are robbed of meaning. I often feel things are done on the spur of the moment, because ‘cool!’, without consideration for the impact on past or future events, and I often feel that whoever is ultimately responsible for the story really doesn’t care. That’s how I feel. Me. Not necessarily anyone else. And while I feel I shouldn’t have to specifically specify it in every single sentence, this is all, in my opinion, my opinion. Mine! But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to share. So there!

First off much better post. You explain not complain.
Think of the United States as it was 250 years ago, then look at it now. People can argue that Kim Kardashian’s butt is irrelevant to the core concepts the country was founded on. However this is not a deviation from the lore of the US that someone like Kim Kardashian exists. Would the founders have liked reality television?

On December 14th 2012, a gunman entered Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. At the end of that day 27 people, not including the shooter, had died. 20 of them were children between the ages of 6 and 7. There were broadcasts after broadcast on the subject. And they mattered. No matter how silly television becomes, there will always be aspects of it that have to matter.
Writing is not dead because 50 shades if grey exist as a book.

You can dilute the medium but that affects impact and not meaning. And don’t look to one event out of thousands in the game as a dilution.

Although I do think an attempted genocide on the sylvari would be a breath of fresh air and fit very well with what gw1 was.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You are trying to argue that Gw2 is not canon because it strayed from the core narrative.

I’m saying GW2 is a poor reflection of its roots because it strayed from the original narrative. Good or bad writing isn’t the real issue here, it’s authenticity and style.

I dug up this post I made two years ago of how Middle-Earth would pan out had it been done like GW2 from GW1, imagine the Uruks as Charr:

Urgoth(Uruk-hai): “Hey there human, you want a ride?”
Aragorn VI(human): “Hail Urgoth, we have travelled many leagues to reach Isengard. Rumors abound there are dragons brooding again up North in the Withered Heath. Do you know of it?”
Urgoth: (rolls eyes)“Umm yeah…we’ve been fighting them for awhile now, human. Anyway, do you want a ride or not?”
Aragorn VI: “Ride? We have our own horses as you can plainly see, orc,” smirking at his entourage.
Urgoth, sighs, and turns to his engineer, Mitzla, “Do you want to explain it or me?”
Mitzla: snorts, “Hey it was your idea to ask them to come, I could care less.”
Urgoth, turning back to the young King of Gondor, “Anywho…we thought it might be faster to use our zeppelins up on the skydock, but it’s up to you really.”
Aragorn VI: “Zeppelins? Skydock?”
Urgoth, sarcastically slow, he points straight up with the lead stick in his hand he was using to jot down notes.
Aragorn VI and his men look up and freeze in awe. A quarter mile above them, three large, steel platforms span out from Orthanc tower. Uruk-hai and orcs can be seen crawling all over each platform, rigging lines and carrying supplies. Huge metal and canvas balloons hover near two of the platforms, dwarfing the tower in size and majesty. The balloons seem to be loading troops, and more balloons can be seen in the distance, floating northwards over the Misty Mountains. “In Elendil’s name! What is this witchcraft and sorcery?!?”
Mitzla snarles and thumbs his mace.
Urgoth: “Easy Mitz…we have to be nice, we’re on the same side now remember?”
Mitzla grunts and walks off, cursing under his breath.
Urgoth: “You shouldn’t insult Mitzla that way, he’s one of our best engineers. And can probably gut you in 2 seconds,” he adds with a straight face. “Well, the last zeppelin leaves at dusk. Let me know if you want a ride. Either way I don’t care.”
Aragorn VI, watching Urgoth walk away, he turns to his captain, “These Uruks are vile creatures, men should not be made to fly as the crow or eagle.”
Gondor Captain, looking up at the zeppelins, “Perhaps sire, but do they serve coffee in those things?”

That seems pretty similar to a GW2 style reboot to LotR, it even has a cute little funny at the end. Any writer could easily connect all the lore dots(and invent new ones) to make it happen. The question is should he or she. If you think all that mess above is perfectly fine, I’m afraid we don’t have much more to discuss. If you don’t, then you at least have an idea of where I’m coming from.

Obsidian.1328:

I’m saying GW2 is a poor reflection of its roots because it strayed from the original narrative. Good or bad writing isn’t the real issue here, it’s authenticity and style.

I dug up this post I made two years ago of how Middle-Earth would pan out had it been done like GW2 from GW1, imagine the Uruks as Charr:

That seems pretty similar to a GW2 style reboot to LotR, it even has a cute little funny at the end. Any writer could easily connect all the lore dots(and invent new ones) to make it happen. The question is should he or she. If you think all that mess above is perfectly fine, I’m afraid we don’t have much more to discuss. If you don’t, then you at least have an idea of where I’m coming from.

Yes. He should. If the story is to continue after a massive, century spanning time skip then the world will obviously have evolved. Look at the distinction of Middle Earth between the First and Third ages. It’s thematically different to an extreme degree.

The First Age had concepts like the Silmarils and origin of the stars, and had a heavy focus on the divine beings of the world such as the Valar and Maiar. There were the Two Trees of Valinor that bore fruit that eventually became the Sun and Moon after a giant spider god tried to devour the tree’s light. It had entire armies of balrogs fighting the ancient elves, wars that shaped the very landscape itself, and a dragon so massive it’s death toppled the three largest mountains of Middle Earth. A dragon that was slain by a lone half-elf riding a magic flying boat through the sky.

The Third Age is dramatically different. The war between good and evil is fought between men and orcs in much the same way as a normal war would be fought. With soldiers and war machines, not creatures of immense magical power. The struggle was one between mortals, guided by the divine who scarcely got involved directly. Smaug was the last dragon and he was barely the size of a house fly to Ancalagon, which is absurd if you think about it from the perspective of the Third Age. Hobbits would have been VERY out of place during the First Age thematically. Rural farmers without a care in the world wouldn’t work in a war between gods and immortals, and indeed they didn’t come to be until some time in the Third Age if I’m remembering right. Maybe late Second Age.

Naturally any continuation to a new age would see a similarly dramatic shift in content. Perhaps not machines like your scenario suggested given the major theme of the Third Age was a war against the progress of industry. A theme Guild Wars did NOT have and so isn’t applicable to whether or not GW2 works as a sequel. But it isn’t beyond the scope of possibility that orcs, without any more dark lords to control and coerce them, might settle down and try and form their own civilization. Or that in time old hatreds may simmer down and fade into distant memory.

Also, the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit books all had humor in them. A lot of light hearted humor actually. It’s part of their charm, and what makes the more dramatic moments in the series really stand out. So a future installment having a few jokes wouldn’t be out of place at all. I mean, do you know how the game of Golf was invented in Middle Earth?

Ehecatl.9172:

~snip~

That’s not the same thing. The Silmarillion was written after the Hobbit to provide a background story. It explains the world of The Hobbit and LotR.

Furthermore, it’s hardly in the same novel form; it’s more like a series of short stories appended with maps, chronological data, a glossary, and family trees all included. It’s kind of like a mythic history book.

Also, Having GW2 set 250 years in the future wasn’t something that was in any way an inevitability. ANet purposely set it 250 years in the future(trivia: a nod to inventory stack limits) so that they could do all those futuristic steam-punk, magi-tech, laser-ship themes. In other words, since the GW1 ‘verse couldn’t realistically support all that stuff they simply advanced the clock so that it could. It’s really that simple.

And yes, old Bullroarer(I think) knocked off a goblin kings head with a wooden club to invent golf.

Obsidian.1328:

Ehecatl.9172:

~snip~

That’s not the same thing. The Silmarillion was written after the Hobbit to provide a background story. It explains the world of The Hobbit and LotR.

Furthermore, it’s hardly in the same novel form; it’s more like a series of short stories appended with maps, chronological data, a glossary, and family trees all included. It’s kind of like a mythic history book.

Also, Having GW2 set 250 years in the future wasn’t something that was in any way an inevitability. ANet purposely set it 250 years in the future(trivia: a nod to inventory stack limits) so that they could do all those futuristic steam-punk, magi-tech, laser-ship themes. In other words, since the GW1 ‘verse couldn’t realistically support all that stuff they simply advanced the clock so that it could. It’s really that simple.

And yes, old Bullroarer(I think) knocked off a goblin kings head with a wooden club to invent golf.

The Silmarillion was composed by the son of J.R.R. Tolkien using diverse notes taken from his late father. LOTR trilogy and the Hobbit were composed by J.R.R. Tolkien himself. Such a situation paralleled the issue involved quite well.

Avariz.8241:

Obsidian.1328:

Ehecatl.9172:

~snip~

That’s not the same thing. The Silmarillion was written after the Hobbit to provide a background story. It explains the world of The Hobbit and LotR.

Furthermore, it’s hardly in the same novel form; it’s more like a series of short stories appended with maps, chronological data, a glossary, and family trees all included. It’s kind of like a mythic history book.

Also, Having GW2 set 250 years in the future wasn’t something that was in any way an inevitability. ANet purposely set it 250 years in the future(trivia: a nod to inventory stack limits) so that they could do all those futuristic steam-punk, magi-tech, laser-ship themes. In other words, since the GW1 ‘verse couldn’t realistically support all that stuff they simply advanced the clock so that it could. It’s really that simple.

And yes, old Bullroarer(I think) knocked off a goblin kings head with a wooden club to invent golf.

The Silmarillion was composed by the son of J.R.R. Tolkien using diverse notes taken from his late father. LOTR trilogy and the Hobbit were composed by J.R.R. Tolkien himself. Such a situation paralleled the issue involved quite well.

I disagree. I will say that me saying the Silmarillion was written after the Hobbit is not entirely true; as it was begun before the Hobbit, never truly finished in J.R.R.‘s lifetime, and edited and published by Christopher well after LotR and J.R.R.’s own death.

“Tolkien first began working on the stories that would become The Silmarillion in 1914, intending them to become an English mythology that would explain the origins of English history and culture.”

~now that’s from wiki, but the source material is J.R.R.‘s own published letters. Do you still think it’s a valid comparison given all of that?

TBH, Obsidian, what you said sounds just like any comic book or game series or TV show series or even movie series where the writers/directors/etc. change around. There are hints, notes, etc. left in the earlier/original works that are worked on and expanded in later extensions by different people.

J.R.R. started the Silmarillion and was finished by his son just as the writers of Prophecies started the threads that were finished (or continued) by writers of Eye of the North and GW2.

Hmm. Henceforth, I think I shall think of GW2 as the ‘New 52’ version of Guild Wars, which is even now undergoing something of an (ahem) Infinite Convergence.

(Alas. I miss the pre-52 Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, with Barbara Gordon/Oracle as her mentor. Good stuff.)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

TBH, Obsidian, what you said sounds just like any comic book or game series or TV show series or even movie series where the writers/directors/etc. change around. There are hints, notes, etc. left in the earlier/original works that are worked on and expanded in later extensions by different people.

J.R.R. started the Silmarillion and was finished by his son just as the writers of Prophecies started the threads that were finished (or continued) by writers of Eye of the North and GW2.

It would be more accurate to say the writers of Proph, and arguably Factions, started and finished 2 complete stories(threads included). And those loose threads were expanded upon by the writers of EotN, GW2, and arguably Nightfall as well. There’s a lot of transitional flux going on between Factions and Nightfall which is subtly reflected in the writing and design.

Obsidian.1328:

That’s not the same thing. The Silmarillion was written after the Hobbit to provide a background story. It explains the world of The Hobbit and LotR.

Furthermore, it’s hardly in the same novel form; it’s more like a series of short stories appended with maps, chronological data, a glossary, and family trees all included. It’s kind of like a mythic history book.

Also, Having GW2 set 250 years in the future wasn’t something that was in any way an inevitability. ANet purposely set it 250 years in the future(trivia: a nod to inventory stack limits) so that they could do all those futuristic steam-punk, magi-tech, laser-ship themes. In other words, since the GW1 ‘verse couldn’t realistically support all that stuff they simply advanced the clock so that it could. It’s really that simple.

And yes, old Bullroarer(I think) knocked off a goblin kings head with a wooden club to invent golf.

Other people addressed the first bit so I’ll leave that alone.

Have you read Children of Hurin? It’s a novel that takes place in the First Age and I must say, it’s tone is much, much darker than what was in Lord of the Rings, and most certainly darker than the Hobbit. We’re talking eternal torture, incest, and suicide levels of dark. Still a great read though, and I wouldn’t say it betrayed the franchise by being different given it was set in a different, much darker time.

So you’re arguing that you should never advance the age a story takes place in because it’d bring fundamental changes to the world? That’s an odd stance to take. I love seeing how much the world of Tyria has changed over the past 250 years. That was probably the smartest thing they did when designing the game, and the very first thing I focused on when moving from Guild Wars to GW2. I went to all my favorite zones to see how much it had changed. The evolution of a world is a good thing. It lets you tell new stories you couldn’t do with the old world.

Ehecatl.9172:

Have you read Children of Hurin? It’s a novel that takes place in the First Age and I must say, it’s tone is much, much darker than what was in Lord of the Rings, and most certainly darker than the Hobbit. We’re talking eternal torture, incest, and suicide levels of dark. Still a great read though, and I wouldn’t say it betrayed the franchise by being different given it was set in a different, much darker time.

Yes, Túrin Turambar is one of my favorite Tolkien characters. His fate is the ying to Tuor’s yang. But Túrin isn’t the only tragic hero Tolkien delivers by any means. And his tone, while certainly darker, never left the confines of the original setting, style, and language of the First Age.

So you’re arguing that you should never advance the age a story takes place in because it’d bring fundamental changes to the world? That’s an odd stance to take. I love seeing how much the world of Tyria has changed over the past 250 years. That was probably the smartest thing they did when designing the game, and the very first thing I focused on when moving from Guild Wars to GW2. I went to all my favorite zones to see how much it had changed. The evolution of a world is a good thing. It lets you tell new stories you couldn’t do with the old world.

No, I’m saying you should never do so based on marketing or pride.

It’s interesting that you think “It lets you tell new stories you couldn’t do with the old world.” Do you mean the Dragons here? Or technology? Because I’m not sure why one would need to have it be set in the future in order to tell new stories. Please specify what “new stories” you are referring to, because the Tyria of GW1 was still largely undiscovered. There were whole swaths of land like west Maguuma, Janthir, and the Blazeridge Steppes and beyond that were referenced to and could have easily been expanded upon with new stories and races.

Explain to me why ANet, with all those leagues and leagues of available space around the old human kingdoms to work with, decided instead to carve up human space and dole it out to the new races? If the answer is racial parity, then that’s a marketing decision.

Explain to me why they had to kill off the gods, advance the clock 250 years, and turn magic into something that is dissected in a laboratory? If the answer is simply wanting to make Tyria your own by inserting your own narrative concepts into the story with little regard to original thematic intent, then that is a pride decision.

Neither decision is a good one.

First of all I want to say that I haven’t played GW1.
I used to play WoW and was (and still am) interested in its lore.

GW2’s lore has a potential from what I’ve seen. But it’s presented in a silly manner. There are too many funny moments and too little serious ones.
WoW’s lore is much darker to me, despite the cartoony looks of the game.

I feel like GW2 was made as a facerolly, easy peasy leisure game, rather than a serious one.
I still like the combat mechanics and so on, but the lore aspect is hurting me.
I wonder how many people skip the cutscenes, if they ever decide to complete the personal story.

Obsidian.1328:

Explain to me why ANet, with all those leagues and leagues of available space around the old human kingdoms to work with, decided instead to carve up human space and dole it out to the new races? If the answer is racial parity, then that’s a marketing decision.

Explain to me why they had to kill off the gods, advance the clock 250 years, and turn magic into something that is dissected in a laboratory? If the answer is simply wanting to make Tyria your own by inserting your own narrative concepts into the story with little regard to original thematic intent, then that is a pride decision.

Neither decision is a good one.

A: Ascalon was not going to survive in the first place. It’s population wkittentered, the land unable to effectively support a population, and the charr attacking.
B: They didn’t kill off the gods. The gods had not that much influence over kitten in gw1, all chapters. The most often was the res shrines/avatar bonuses you could buy, and the underworld/fissure of woe.
C: Because advancing the clock 250 years actually means they can reference the events of GW1 WITHOUT having to explicitly label a ‘canon’ hero. Was it a Ascalonian who did all three campaigns in canon? Or one Ascalon, one Canthan, one Istani?

If GW2 would’ve happened say… 10 years or even 20 years later, our Gw1 heroes would be alive and well. How would you tell the story without mentioning them or being forced to create a ‘canon’ hero (which would kitten off the MMO players).

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Explain to me why ANet, with all those leagues and leagues of available space around the old human kingdoms to work with, decided instead to carve up human space and dole it out to the new races? If the answer is racial parity, then that’s a marketing decision.

Explain to me why they had to kill off the gods, advance the clock 250 years, and turn magic into something that is dissected in a laboratory? If the answer is simply wanting to make Tyria your own by inserting your own narrative concepts into the story with little regard to original thematic intent, then that is a pride decision.

Neither decision is a good one.

A: Ascalon was not going to survive in the first place. It’s population wkittentered, the land unable to effectively support a population, and the charr attacking.
B: They didn’t kill off the gods. The gods had not that much influence over kitten in gw1, all chapters. The most often was the res shrines/avatar bonuses you could buy, and the underworld/fissure of woe.
C: Because advancing the clock 250 years actually means they can reference the events of GW1 WITHOUT having to explicitly label a ‘canon’ hero. Was it a Ascalonian who did all three campaigns in canon? Or one Ascalon, one Canthan, one Istani?

If GW2 would’ve happened say… 10 years or even 20 years later, our Gw1 heroes would be alive and well. How would you tell the story without mentioning them or being forced to create a ‘canon’ hero (which would kitten off the MMO players).

Well they did that for Factions and Nightfall, it’s fairly academic. Or are you one of those people that thinks that everyone running around with that “Hero of Tyria” title is poor lore design because there should be only one? -__-

Kalavier.1097:

C: Because advancing the clock 250 years actually means they can reference the events of GW1 WITHOUT having to explicitly label a ‘canon’ hero. Was it a Ascalonian who did all three campaigns in canon? Or one Ascalon, one Canthan, one Istani?

They could have done it how, imo, they should have done it.

When you link to a GW1 account, you choose which of your character is “the hero” for each campaign you had linked. Any other campaign it’s treated with a ’ArenaNet’s canon’ but where you linked up and chose there’s a ‘personal canon’ – think Dragon Age choices; there’s a “BioWare canon” which goes with a certain set of choices from the games and is used for non-game media (comics and books), but there’s the ‘personal canon’ which is your continuity in the game series.

Even if it was just name replacement, I can just imagine the save import bugs in that would have happened.

Obsidian.1328:

Well they did that for Factions and Nightfall, it’s fairly academic. Or are you one of those people that thinks that everyone running around with that “Hero of Tyria” title is poor lore design because there should be only one? -__-

In Factions or Nightfall, you could either A: Be a new character. or B: be the character from the previous campaign.

In GW2, which was supposed to be an entirely new game, it’d be harder.

I honestly don’t care if everybody uses Hero of Tyria. I’ll personally not RP or play my characters as if they ARE the Commander of GW2. In terms of GW1 character, I treat all of mine as simply being one of MANY heroes who went through those actions. My sunspear characters were simply a few of many sunspears who went through the events of Nightfall and the Realm of Torment.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kalavier.1097:

C: Because advancing the clock 250 years actually means they can reference the events of GW1 WITHOUT having to explicitly label a ‘canon’ hero. Was it a Ascalonian who did all three campaigns in canon? Or one Ascalon, one Canthan, one Istani?

They could have done it how, imo, they should have done it.

When you link to a GW1 account, you choose which of your character is “the hero” for each campaign you had linked. Any other campaign it’s treated with a ’ArenaNet’s canon’ but where you linked up and chose there’s a ‘personal canon’ – think Dragon Age choices; there’s a “BioWare canon” which goes with a certain set of choices from the games and is used for non-game media (comics and books), but there’s the ‘personal canon’ which is your continuity in the game series.

While possible, I’d say it works less on an MMO game then a single player RPG. Single Player worlds are more… controlled. Bioware has a selection of options and choices, and they pick everything. But an MMO, less so.

Hell, even TOR, which links back to knights of the old republic (1 and 2, where you could somewhat keep your same Revan and events to the second one with early dialogue options), flat out sets a canon exile and Revan, and the canon path.

I think making a ‘canon’ hero of GW1, with all the options having a canon choice and all, and all that being well known (as opposed to the GW1 hero being known, but not 100% details) would cause more issues. Like I said a while ago about Kormir. Making the player become the god would mean either Anet makes a canon GW1 character (who wouldn’t match many, if anybodys character), thus kittening all those people off, or they make the god so unknown/not powerful nobody knows of them… kittening everybody off :P

Also, import bugs. I got mad at Dragon age Inquisition because I got a bit in and THEN found out my world state hadn’t imported.

Kalavier.1097:

…GW2, which was supposed to be an entirely new game…

Mission accomplished ANet.

People are forgetting that the world is no longer instanced anymore and pretty much everything is a common place. Everywhere but a few areas are shared spaces for players you do not know and do not know you. Your home instance is unique to you. So is your hall of monuments. Everything else is starting from scratch. You are not going to be given a different gaming experience in Gw2 based on anything you did in Gw1. Notice the hall of monuments rewards make minimal effects on the actual world.

I don’t think anyone is forgetting that, and I for one certainly wouldn’t expect such. All I was saying was a simple name replacer in text dialogue no different than when we see NPCs refer to our character’s name, race, gender, profession, or story progression.

All it changes is about 25 npcs dialogue tops if such was done.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t think anyone is forgetting that, and I for one certainly wouldn’t expect such. All I was saying was a simple name replacer in text dialogue no different than when we see NPCs refer to our character’s name, race, gender, profession, or story progression.

All it changes is about 25 npcs dialogue tops if such was done.

What matters is the common areas of the world that look ways and talk certain ways that only make sense if you have played gw1 and/or are in gw1. If we were to set this 10-20-30-40 years in the future. What is the canon reason for:

Why all the professions and energy system are gone 10-30 years after the last game?

I am doing a group mission with a friend. Why does the person we are talking to only say nice things about him but not about me whenever I talk to him?

I made an Asian character that kinda looks like me but now whenever I visit Cantha all of the Asian people there look nothing like me, they look and act kinda weird. Why does the culture in this game that looks Asian also have to do with ninja stuff?

I made a black character that looks like me and I visited a place called Elona. This is super weird they are using spears and contacting spirits. Do people know that not all African people use spears, we have other weapons. And the addition of someone who contacts dead spirits also adds to how this is kinda racist. I mean is anyone else getting this tribal theme; why does the culture that looks black have stereotypes from Africa?

Obsidian.1328:

Yes, Túrin Turambar is one of my favorite Tolkien characters. His fate is the ying to Tuor’s yang. But Túrin isn’t the only tragic hero Tolkien delivers by any means. And his tone, while certainly darker, never left the confines of the original setting, style, and language of the First Age.

Of the First Age, no. But compared to the Third Age? It’s dramatically different. Children of Hurin and The Hobbit are so different in tone that were you to give both to someone I doubt they’d come to the conclusion that they are the same world outside of both including dwarves and elves.

No, I’m saying you should never do so based on marketing or pride.

It’s interesting that you think “It lets you tell new stories you couldn’t do with the old world.” Do you mean the Dragons here? Or technology? Because I’m not sure why one would need to have it be set in the future in order to tell new stories. Please specify what “new stories” you are referring to, because the Tyria of GW1 was still largely undiscovered. There were whole swaths of land like west Maguuma, Janthir, and the Blazeridge Steppes and beyond that were referenced to and could have easily been expanded upon with new stories and races.

Explain to me why ANet, with all those leagues and leagues of available space around the old human kingdoms to work with, decided instead to carve up human space and dole it out to the new races? If the answer is racial parity, then that’s a marketing decision.

Explain to me why they had to kill off the gods, advance the clock 250 years, and turn magic into something that is dissected in a laboratory? If the answer is simply wanting to make Tyria your own by inserting your own narrative concepts into the story with little regard to original thematic intent, then that is a pride decision.

Neither decision is a good one.

Because GW2 is a sequel, not another chapter. The expansions of Guild Wars were all chapters that were connected by an overarching plot that came together in Nightfall. Then they used Eye of the North to set up the next installment in the franchise, which was the sequel to Guild Wars, GW2. Or perhaps more accurate, it’s a second series that takes place after the first is at an end. The entire point of the second series is to show the world and how it’s changed from the first, and to follow a new storyline in this newly developed world.

As for what stories they couldn’t do.. Technically nothing. If the writers wanted to they could’ve had A man named Reginald Bottombroke appear out of a time machine to warn Tyria of an impending doom from a thousand years from now that’d be invading Tyria with space age technology and giant riding worms with lasers on their heads. That’s the thing about being a writer. You can do anything. However, you have to ask if what you’re doing makes sense.

That is where the timeskip comes in. Without it the Elder Dragons rising from their sleep are just new enemies to be killed, no different from the Titans or the Margonites. But WITH the timeskip the dragons have a history interacting with the playable races. Zhaitan has been slowly spreading death for over one hundred years, and his name is known to everyone in Tyria. Jormag is known as the dragon that stole the Northern Shiverpeaks from the Norn, and Kraalkatorrik caused the Brand and murdered Snaff, bringing ire from the charr and asura. Primordius has had the last 250 years to wipe out the Asuran civilization, forcing them to start again on the surface.

The narrative of GW2 simply wouldn’t work if it took place directly after Guild Wars. The races need to be intimately familiar with the dragons for the dragons to feel like a worthy enough threat to put aside old hatreds, and you couldn’t fit the dragons into Guild Wars lore without some MAJOR retconning or just having them arrive suddenly with no proper foreshadowing or history behind them.

The way it was done was very effective. Bringing in Primordius at the very end of Guild Wars to show what the future held, and then releasing GW2 and the information of the history between the two games so players can get an idea of what they’re dealing with. Guild Wars ended with a “The End..?” moment, and GW2 answered the question mark at the end before bringing us to where we are now.

Now you might not agree with how the world evolved over those 250 years, I don’t agree with some of the changes either, but to say Anet’s ONLY reason for the time skip was marketing based seems a bit presumptuous. The time skip clearly has value to the story they are trying to tell, and gave the writers more freedom with the lore between the two games to get everything in position for the beginning of GW2.

I don’t want to ruffle anyways feathers but I kind of have an annoyance with the title vs the content of the game. If you remember the tree guy talk about the time during the original game on how there will guilds fighting each other but no longer do in theory. I am wondering if there is some kind of lore to bring the guild wars back to fit the lore into what the game in a sequel of it sharing the same name(excluding the 2 part of course.

Also on top of that I am not sure how much of this is true or rumors but the core of guild wars itself was in cantha/factions. I have heard that the devs really aren’t going to be focusing on cantha or elona and are just sticking to tyria. I just find it odd where there is no content/lore in the game of where the game really got its momentum in the original game of what I was expecting if that makes any sense

Ehecatl.9172:

Of the First Age, no. But compared to the Third Age? It’s dramatically different. Children of Hurin and The Hobbit are so different in tone that were you to give both to someone I doubt they’d come to the conclusion that they are the same world outside of both including dwarves and elves.

The Hobbit was written for kids, LotR was more reminiscent of The Silmarillion with some of the tone from the Hobbit in it…since there were hobbits in it. -__-

Because GW2 is a sequel, not another chapter. The expansions of Guild Wars were all chapters that were connected by an overarching plot that came together in Nightfall. Then they used Eye of the North to set up the next installment in the franchise, which was the sequel to Guild Wars, GW2. Or perhaps more accurate, it’s a second series that takes place after the first is at an end. The entire point of the second series is to show the world and how it’s changed from the first, and to follow a new storyline in this newly developed world.

As for what stories they couldn’t do.. Technically nothing. If the writers wanted to they could’ve had A man named Reginald Bottombroke appear out of a time machine to warn Tyria of an impending doom from a thousand years from now that’d be invading Tyria with space age technology and giant riding worms with lasers on their heads. That’s the thing about being a writer. You can do anything. However, you have to ask if what you’re doing makes sense.

That is where the timeskip comes in. Without it the Elder Dragons rising from their sleep are just new enemies to be killed, no different from the Titans or the Margonites. But WITH the timeskip the dragons have a history interacting with the playable races. Zhaitan has been slowly spreading death for over one hundred years, and his name is known to everyone in Tyria. Jormag is known as the dragon that stole the Northern Shiverpeaks from the Norn, and Kraalkatorrik caused the Brand and murdered Snaff, bringing ire from the charr and asura. Primordius has had the last 250 years to wipe out the Asuran civilization, forcing them to start again on the surface.

The narrative of GW2 simply wouldn’t work if it took place directly after Guild Wars. The races need to be intimately familiar with the dragons for the dragons to feel like a worthy enough threat to put aside old hatreds, and you couldn’t fit the dragons into Guild Wars lore without some MAJOR retconning or just having them arrive suddenly with no proper foreshadowing or history behind them.

The way it was done was very effective. Bringing in Primordius at the very end of Guild Wars to show what the future held, and then releasing GW2 and the information of the history between the two games so players can get an idea of what they’re dealing with. Guild Wars ended with a “The End..?” moment, and GW2 answered the question mark at the end before bringing us to where we are now.

Now you might not agree with how the world evolved over those 250 years, I don’t agree with some of the changes either, but to say Anet’s ONLY reason for the time skip was marketing based seems a bit presumptuous. The time skip clearly has value to the story they are trying to tell, and gave the writers more freedom with the lore between the two games to get everything in position for the beginning of GW2.

You’re missing my point. The Elder Dragons were in no way, shape, or form a necessary eventuality in Tyria. They were specifically invented for the GW2 narrative. So most of what you said up there is irrelevant. While the written lore for them is not bad, the reason for them even being here in the first place is wrong. It’s the same reason they have mad scientist Asura, drunk viking Norn, elvish Sylvari, steampunk Charr, and vanilla fantasy humans…because Dragonz are kewl!! It’s a simple popular fantasy flavor thrown into the Tyrian narrative to feed the masses.

It’s putting marketing ideals above narrative continuity. ANet wanted to appeal to as many players as possible and they knew that if they threw in all these ridiculous fantasy tropes it would work better. That’s what’s wrong with the initial GW2 writing.

Klypto.1703:

I don’t want to ruffle anyways feathers but I kind of have an annoyance with the title vs the content of the game. If you remember the tree guy talk about the time during the original game on how there will guilds fighting each other but no longer do in theory. I am wondering if there is some kind of lore to bring the guild wars back to fit the lore into what the game in a sequel of it sharing the same name(excluding the 2 part of course.

Also on top of that I am not sure how much of this is true or rumors but the core of guild wars itself was in cantha/factions. I have heard that the devs really aren’t going to be focusing on cantha or elona and are just sticking to tyria. I just find it odd where there is no content/lore in the game of where the game really got its momentum in the original game of what I was expecting if that makes any sense

The original concept of Guild Wars 1 was having player guilds actually fight for territory in the PvE zones for influence, bonuses, etc. That concept was scrapped early in development for separation of PvP/PvE. However, much of the story of the Guild Wars had already been written. So ANet chose to keep the name, and use it as part of the lore history instead of current events. That is why the game is called what it is called.

Historically, the Guild Wars took place only on the Tyrian continent between Kryta, Orr, and Ascalon. You may be thinking of Factions, it had a pseudo GvG-in-PvE system. The battles themselves took place in separate instances, with the results determining which cities/town/areas in the actual PvE map the winner had “control” of. It was kind of a half-hearted realization of the original concept I mentioned above, but it wasn’t called “guild wars” per se. The two opposing factions(hence the name) were the Luxons and Kurziks, which were also tied into the core narrative. Guilds could also be part of Alliances that fought each other for certain perks in Alliance Battles(AB for short). It was a little convoluted, but it worked. :-P

From me, is the Steam technologies. That kill totally my immersion in a sword & magic world setting, and now we have the dam Batman bike in HoT. Arrrgghhh! :/

Ellewind.9640:

From me, is the Steam technologies. That kill totally my immersion in a sword & magic world setting, and now we have the dam Batman bike in HoT. Arrrgghhh! :/

You realise not every sword and magic world is set in the iron age. Medieval is very far from what you want to be thinking. Remember the years that came after the iron age in reality would be entirely different if magic existed.

Also, unlike some settings, in GW2 the tech doesn’t take the place of magic. They work together.