Guild Wars 2

Obsidian.1328:

Excellent, then there are areas beyond the explorable map that were struck by the Searing, and the Searing hit Ascalon in its entirety. Noted.

[…]

You also shouldn’t ignore pieces of reasonable argument, for or against, just because you want to ignore it.

The Searing hit all of Ascalon, and then some. It literally ended on the northern reaches of the Ascalonian kingdom, and extended further south and – presumably – further east than Ascalon of the day.

And what, per se, have I ignored? Because I don’t think I’ve ignored any. Now, whether I’ve read the full argument or not is another matter, but it wasn’t out of ignoring. My point remains, however, that you shouldn’t exclude Ebonhawke just because it’s part of GW2 and not within GW1.

Obsidian.1328:

Wizard’s Folly I was just baiting. Just like if you overlay the map, Ebonhawke gates literally touch the edge of the southern explorable area in Pre-searing. Or why in the world can you see the North Wall running east to the horizon from Fort Ranik…I mean, if the areas we visit in-game are all there is of Ascalon, and we can’t go there as players, did Ascalonians just build that and abandon it? But whatever, I’m obviously nitpicking.

Uhhhh…That’s not the Wall, and Ebonahwke are far more south than anywhere in pre-Searing (more south than anywhere in post-Searing). The Wall doesn’t go north-south or make a jump south anywhere. That’s an entirely different structure – aqueducts, I believe, actually, given the shape and placement (near water).

I don’t think it even shares models with anywhere but the eastern most – and thinnest – parts of the Great Northern Wall.

Obsidian.1328:

At any rate, my point in all this nonsense is not to take the landscape visuals as factual clues to the actual size of things. The areas we get to explore in-game are simply the areas the devs wanted to, or had time to, show us.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with this statement. I certainly don’t and full-heartedly agree, in actuality. Nonetheless, Ebonhawke wasn’t considered part of the kingdom of Ascalon as of the Searing. It may have likely been a village built on the outskirts of the kingdom – such happens frequently, in fact – and thus not actually part of Ascalon itself, even if those there would consider themselves Ascalonians.

Obsidian.1328:

Furthermore, it makes sense for the current game to encapsulate Ascalon to only what we can see in-game, otherwise they’d have to either extend the radius of the Searing and/or Foefire, or explain away all the random satellite towns/villages/forts/whatever that would surround any kingdom.

Your statement, ironically or not, seems to me t o counteracts your previous paragraph. And I fail to see why the radius of either the Searing or the Foefire would have to be extended. Why couldn’t they just simply not eclipse the entire kingdom? Though the Searing did – and then some – but the Foefire may not have, even if said to (nonetheless, Ebonhawke wasn’t part of Ascalon – this is a fact – at the time). And why would there be a need to explain those satellite towns/villages/forts/etc.? Such scenarios existed in our own history, I do believe – often in the form of colonies or expansion attempts – and are beyond common in fantasy settings.

Erukk.1408:

Do we know if the Foefire was actually a spell or not? To me, it sounded more like the magic of Magdaer trying to fulfill Adelbern’s wants/needs/desires. More of a magic gone awry, then an actually spell. Though, that’s only my personal opinion.

if that was so, then either Ebonhawke would have been taken out too since Adelbern knew they were there. Or it was left alone because Adelbern wanted some humans remaining living to reclaim the land. Hard to tell with a madman.

Obsidian.1328:

Both sets are twins of each other, and both sets are divine in origin(bestowed to humans by the gods).

The staves were not given by the gods, the only relation to the gods there are is that 1) the gods intervened when the nations holding the staves caused horrors to their people, and 2) Abaddon was after them via his minions. The swords are made by Orrians, by the way, so they’re not of divine origins.

Obsidian.1328:

Well reading the Foefire description on the GW2wiki, it’s the first time I’ve seen Adelbern referred to as a “sorcerer-king.” Was he hiding this dark, magical talent his whole life?

“Sorcerer-King” is the title that the charr gave him, due to casting the Foefire. It is mentioned within relation to Ascalonian Catacombs, by Rytlock I believe. Or at least was.

Just want to point out that people keep saying “The rightful King of Ascalon” can end the Curse.. the wiki actually says…

“It is said that if Magdaer or Sohothin returns to Ascalon City in the hands of an heir to King Doric (the only known descendants being Queen Jennah and Commander Samuelsson), then the spirits of the Ascalonian ghosts will be put to rest. "

Edit: Replaced “of” with “to” because of a goofy editing issue. This forum dose not seem to like the Combination of the word “Of” and “King”

The wiki is… well, I can’t fully express what I think about using wiki articles as a source because it’ll get censored, and while I play with variations on ‘cat’ to poke fun at the censor sometimes, in this case that just isn’t enough.

You probably know the general advice not to trust Wikipedia as a primary source because any Tom, Richard or Harry could rooster it up? The wiki is full of morons who post their opinion as fact, and because of the mob rule of the wiki, people who try to adjust this and make the wiki an actual credible reference to lore just end up in revert wars that lead to nothing except the banning of the person trying to clean it up… and then some other boneheaded moron will go and post their opinion or speculation as fact.

TL;DR: Don’t trust anything the wiki says in lore unless it’s one of the sections that post verbatim from an ingame source or an official ArenaNet article.

In this case, the article is here. Specifically:

“Some believe that one day, when the rightful king of Ascalon returns with one of the two flaming swords—either Adelbern’s Magdaer or his son’s, named Sohothin—the legion will abandon the city and sink at last into peaceful death.”

So the original source does, in fact, specify “the rightful king of Ascalon” verbatim. It also says nothing about the line okitteng Doric, although the traditional royal line is known to be descended from Doric… however, we don’t know for sure that’s a requirement. We certainly haven’t seen anything to indicate that Queen Jennah of Kryta might even be in the running - her title with respect to Ascalon is “Regent”, which implies that she’s not seen as having the right to claim the crown itself.

Let’s just hope the “the rightful king of Ascalon” isn’t an Ascalonian Mad King Thorn ripoff(actually I am hoping it is).

draxynnic.3719:

TL;DR: Don’t trust anything the wiki says in lore unless it’s one of the sections that post verbatim from an ingame source or an official ArenaNet article.

Well, I will have to do some digging, because I was almost sure I had seen that said someplace other than the wiki, but I can’t for the life of me remember where…

Rizalee.4593:

Just want to point out that people keep saying “The rightful King of Ascalon” can end the Curse.. the wiki actually says…

“It is said that if Magdaer or Sohothin returns to Ascalon City in the hands of an heir to King Doric (the only known descendants being Queen Jennah and Commander Samuelsson), then the spirits of the Ascalonian ghosts will be put to rest.

You should read my original post in this thread. The original source for this legend is The Movement of the World which says, and I quote “Some believe that one day, when the rightful king of Ascalon returns with one of the two flaming swords—either Adelbern’s Magdaer or his son’s, named Sohothin—the legion will abandon the city and sink at last into peaceful death.”

There is NEVER mention okitteng Doric in it or the article that was released with it – The Ecology of the Charr which doesn’t mention this “belief” – and it is merely a belief, not truth, not even legend like I incorrectly said before.

You shouldn’t take the wikis – especially GW2W due to its incomplete, and sadly often wrong thanks to a certain few editors (one of whom I got banned for constantly trying to fix, though I admit I got overzealous in it). The article stating “heir to King Doric” is one such incorrect state – this is never once said anywhere and is a pure player (mis)interpretation of that line.

(Edit: I should probably read subsequent posts more often when responding – I like to respond post by post so everything I said is pretty much what drax said, with the addition of links for thee.)

Rizalee.4593:

Well, I will have to do some digging, because I was almost sure I had seen that said someplace other than the wiki, but I can’t for the life of me remember where…

Probably on the forums, which has constantly used the same wording – which came first, the forum or the wiki’s wording, is like asking about chickens and their eggs – or alternatively, an interview where the wording was in the questioner. Or a fan-made summary.

But officially, I’ve never seen it mention “heir to King Doric” and if it wasn’t something accessible on the wiki, books, or in-game, then the wiki should hold a reference tag.

What if "The rightful King of Ascalon” is a ghost of the first King of Ascalon and not only that but also a Mad King similar to Mad King Thorn (hopefully not named after Daniel Frozenwind’s Mad King Jack Frost character who Daniel Frozenwind calls his player character’s father) then and that by legion the legend infact refered to either the Flame Legion or the Iron Legion?

The charr are mindless beasts that need to be EXTERMINATED! It isn’t war, it’s PEST CONTROL. Anyway, Ascalon will rise again, and the proud ascalonians shall once again throw charr cubs from the towering walls of Ebonhawke!

^ Mr.Adelbern, login to your main account plz.

Didn’t Adelbern summon Foefire to wipe his city? Perhaps Ebonhawke was spared because it technically isn’t part of “Ascalon City”

The Ascalonians are not “bad guys” (Ebonhawke is technically Ascalonian), only the ghosts are, and we can certainly thank the Charr for that. Ironically, Charr chose to abandon the one thing that made Searing possible (Flame Legion) and go for Iron instead.

The one event I encountered had a ghost scout reporting to his ghost captain that Charrs are coming. Depending on your race, this may very well be true, but I think the common ghosts are basically trapped in reliving their past. Specifically, the time when they were still fighting the Charrs.

The only ghost capable of actual thinking seem to be Adelbern.

Aside from my human mesmer who I have decided is Krytan, all my human characters (guardian and warrior) are of Ascalonian decent. In GW1 I had my own personal story I built around my warrior. How he survived The Searing, campaigned against the Charr. And while I never wrote this far into the future about it, maybe was there when Ebonhawke was founded or maybe even fighting the Charr at the time of the Foefire. With that kind of backstory for my human characters, Ascalonians do sure seem to be made out to be bad guys because they still fight the Charr. I’m not a big fan of that. There’s a reason I refuse to make a Charr!

For Ascalon!

Also, minor gripe, they could have done a much better job and making the ruins of Ascalon City. Except for the fact it says “Ruins of Ascalon City” on the map, you’d otherwise not recognize it as such.

And I wouldn’t mind seeing some living story about another battle between human and charr in Ebonhawke or something.

Well, most of the postsearing Ascalon City outpost is in the lake. Even so, though, they could have left more of the original ruins around it.

On thinking ghosts – I think the former trainers might also be capable of thought. Katya Blackblood, for instance, initially talks until Rytlock jumps in and demands she be attacked.

Raestloz.7134:

Didn’t Adelbern summon Foefire to wipe his city? Perhaps Ebonhawke was spared because it technically isn’t part of “Ascalon City”

The Foefire affected all humans in Ascalon – it’s why there are ghosts in Iron Marches, Diessa Plateau, Plains of Ashford (outside the city) and even in Blazeridge Steppes. It was only limited to Ascalon City in regards to how it affected charr.

How it affected charr is actually rather interesting, given the fact that it affected cows and cats in a similar manner to humans.

It could be because the cows belonged to Ascalonians and were thus ‘Ascalonian’.

In terms of cats, though – I only recall seeing one ghost cat and it seems to behave largely like a normal cat and not a Foefire omnicidal maniac, so that may simply be an ordinary ghost cat that hung around for some reason.

I do have to wonder, though, if perhaps it isn’t possible that the only ghosts created were created in Ascalon City, and then Adlebern sent the ghosts out from there. It could go a long way to explain why there is such random pattern of their existence. I mean the ones that stick around old buildings and towns could be described as having been defending an outpost, but there are many open areas with nothing surrounding that these ghosts claim as well. Just a thought.

I seems to me that even the humans outside the city were turned into ghosts as well.

GuildMag: Why did only the inhabitants of Ebonhawke survive the Foefire, which has killed every other human in Ascalon and turned them into ghosts?

Jeff Grubb: Ebonhawke was not part of Ascalon at the point, though it was an outpost. It was beyond the effects of the spell.

http://www.guildmag.com/gmblitz-lore-interview-with-jeff-grubb

Yes, but in my mind, the charr are very unlikely to have tried to take Ascalon City unless either they had conquered most all of the rest of Ascalon, or they had the rest of Ascalon’s ouposts under seige as well. This means that, yes, it is likely that there would be small packs of people roaming the land, most likely trying to hide from the Charr, but at the same time I don’t think that there would be hundreds of ascalonians protecting the destroyed estate of Duke Barradin. The charr wouldn’t even have had to try to take that area. I’m sure the radius of ghosts was much larger than Ascalon City, my only thought is that perhaps not every ghost we see was in that location at death. Perhaps some 75% of the ghosts came from Ascalon City, and were spread out by Adlebern while the remainder were just trapped when the Foefire occurred.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How it affected charr is actually rather interesting, given the fact that it affected cows and cats in a similar manner to humans.

The Ascalonian Tactical Ghost Cow Force. Something with power worth compared to airships.

Narcemus.1348:

Yes, but in my mind, the charr are very unlikely to have tried to take Ascalon City unless either they had conquered most all of the rest of Ascalon, or they had the rest of Ascalon’s ouposts under seige as well. This means that, yes, it is likely that there would be small packs of people roaming the land, most likely trying to hide from the Charr, but at the same time I don’t think that there would be hundreds of ascalonians protecting the destroyed estate of Duke Barradin. The charr wouldn’t even have had to try to take that area. I’m sure the radius of ghosts was much larger than Ascalon City, my only thought is that perhaps not every ghost we see was in that location at death. Perhaps some 75% of the ghosts came from Ascalon City, and were spread out by Adlebern while the remainder were just trapped when the Foefire occurred.

Ah, I gatcha now.