Guild Wars 2

BrunoBRS.5178:

Equilibriator.8741:

in arah story

but you have to glitch through the game to reach it, so it doesn’t count as canon.

obviously, but its still a cool pick

Correct me if im wrong, but i think it is safe to assume that the Guild Wars Universe works with the laws of lingering (cant find a better word for it atm, you’ll get what i mean)

Matter, Energy, and most propably Magic cannot be destroyed, only altered, redirected, changed. (I wasnt sure about this last part until the whole ‘magic sponge’ thing from the Zephyrites.) Just as killing Abaddon was not enough, i suspect simply shooting down the manifestation of a force propably more powerful than a god is not enough. Should not be enough.

What happens with all that power? Necromantic power, might we add! Raising the dead and stuff. Taking down an undead and claiming it to be dead for real just because it doesnt move for months (disregarding the ages it spends without any activity)… Now consider this with the undead manifestation of the strongest necromantic force in the world! I wouldnt trust it to be dead for real if i danced on the bones!

Truth is, we dont know enough about the nature of Elder Dragons. Not just we as players, but neither does the Pact. And its a pity this controversial aspect of the mystery is not yet adressed in any way through our oh-so growing Living Story throughout the months.

Way pointing is not glitching the game. Also u think they would put dragon corpses in game if they where not really dead?

Seeing that one body is indeed a glitch. You’re not supposed to be able to reach it, and that corpse is there because Zhaitan is an actual NPC, and making it disappear after passing sight through a supposedly impassable barrier is indexed work.

It is a glitch. There is no huge ocean in that location. It is not lore. Simple as that.

Fafnir.5124:

Way pointing is not glitching the game. Also u think they would put dragon corpses in game if they where not really dead?

It’s been pointed out MANY time before (both in this thread and others) that Zhaitans corpse was in Beta but was “Hidden/Removed” when the game went live.

The one being referred to in this post is somewhere where the Devs hoped it’d be hidden so that nobody would notice it’s there. Having to bend the rules/physics of the game or find a loop hole makes it a glitch.

Maybe what people SHOULD be asking though is WHY the Devs decided to remve the body for the games release? (Personally I think Zhaitan is dead but that doesn’t reflect from the question of why they removed it.)

I think it’s pretty obvious why they removed it. It was in the explorable, which you must also visit before fighting Zhaitan. So that wouldn’t make any sense, so see a dead Zhaitan when he isn’t defeated yet.

I think there will be a Zhaitans brain, the dragon form being his body. Eyes, Mouth, Body and Brain.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think it’s pretty obvious why they removed it. It was in the explorable, which you must also visit before fighting Zhaitan. So that wouldn’t make any sense, so see a dead Zhaitan when he isn’t defeated yet.

You don’t go to the explorable version of Arab before killing Zhaitan…

You do go to some of the same area you cover in Arab explorable, but you uncover a lot more, including a PoI called “Zhaitan’s Rest” that can only be seen in the Seer path – where the dragon was on the map in beta.

But the reason for the corpse removal is obvious imo. He dies WAY to the east of the map, beyond the reach of Arab explorable. Perhaps beyond the city itself – if they ever open up the eastern side of Orr, the corpse may be there.

Equilibriator.8741:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I got pretty conclusive evidence zhaitan is dead.

See enclosed link

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f342/liboempire/gw087-1.jpg

Err… Have you read what I posted?

zhaitans brain will be why the dragon came back in the first place, the body is like a puppet on strings, so long as the brain stays safe and hidden, it can eventually re-use the body form provided it has accumulated enough magic energy.

This is part of why the zhaitans mouth exists. and why the dragons seek to eat so much magic, like a wasp queen setting itself up for summer and winter.

any thoughts on this?

Equilibriator.8741:

zhaitans brain will be why the dragon came back in the first place, the body is like a puppet on strings, so long as the brain stays safe and hidden, it can eventually re-use the body form provided it has accumulated enough magic energy.

This is part of why the zhaitans mouth exists. and why the dragons seek to eat so much magic, like a wasp queen setting itself up for summer and winter.

any thoughts on this?

I am inclined to agree with you for Zhaitan, and only Zhaitan. As the undead dragon it is not too far fetched to say that the Dragon has no real form but simply cocoons it’s self in a physical form. Kill the shell and Zhaitan needs to recuperate. Though that does not mean that he is not beaten.

If this theory is true then it could take thousands of years for him to come back and rebuild his power and form.

This may be true for all Elder Dragons, that if beaten, their soul simply hibernates, and rebuilds a new physical body.

If his body is just a shell and he can rebuild that, why did he do that beneath a sunken peninsula? omg..

Can’t believe you are still discussing this topic, it’s against every kind of logic and knowledge we got to work with..

The mouth and eye of Zhaitan isn’t actually the mouth and eye of zahitan.. just simple reanimated servants, the eyes being bodies from the royal house.

Gandarel.5091:

If his body is just a shell and he can rebuild that, why did he do that beneath a sunken peninsula? omg..

The peninsula wasn’t always sunken. Zhaitan has been asleep for much longer than that.

Gandarel.5091:

If his body is just a shell and he can rebuild that, why did he do that beneath a sunken peninsula? omg..

Can’t believe you are still discussing this topic, it’s against every kind of logic and knowledge we got to work with..

The mouth and eye of Zhaitan isn’t actually the mouth and eye of zahitan.. just simple reanimated servants, the eyes being bodies from the royal house.

My theory is a little different. I say that the elder dragons do not fetch a new body for themselves.
I say that the elder dragons are an inevitable consequence of the existence of magic.
That so long as magic exists in Tyria, it will eventually take form in the elder dragons.
Of course that’s a process that takes thousands of years.
That’s why the order of whispers’ aim was to put them to sleep again, and not to destroy them.
The way I see it, we’ve put Zhaitan to sleep for another 10.000 years.

Ludovicus.7980:

Gandarel.5091:

If his body is just a shell and he can rebuild that, why did he do that beneath a sunken peninsula? omg..

Can’t believe you are still discussing this topic, it’s against every kind of logic and knowledge we got to work with..

The mouth and eye of Zhaitan isn’t actually the mouth and eye of zahitan.. just simple reanimated servants, the eyes being bodies from the royal house.

My theory is a little different. I say that the elder dragons do not fetch a new body for themselves.
I say that the elder dragons are an inevitable consequence of the existence of magic.
That so long as magic exists in Tyria, it will eventually take form in the elder dragons.
Of course that’s a process that takes thousands of years.
That’s why the order of whispers’ aim was to put them to sleep again, and not to destroy them.
The way I see it, we’ve put Zhaitan to sleep for another 10.000 years.

Putting him back to sleep with a magalaser that thore off some limbs. No.

Why can’t you accept that he is dead? Srsly. You overcomplicate this pretty plain and simple ‘story’ GW2 has.

The reason why people have a hard time accepting Zhaitan is dead is simply because his sphere of influence is necromantic magic. while I accept he is dead, I am curious could he be resurrected in some manner or form? I could see a very derange Necromancer attempting to raise the mighty dragon as a powerful weapon, probably hoping to point him at another Elder Dragon, in he not so distant future.

He’s not dead for me.

…Because I haven’t done Arah yet.. :B

lakdav.3694:

Truth is, we dont know enough about the nature of Elder Dragons. Not just we as players, but neither does the Pact. And its a pity this controversial aspect of the mystery is not yet adressed in any way through our oh-so growing Living Story throughout the months.

+1

JesseyFranz.8362:

lakdav.3694:

Truth is, we dont know enough about the nature of Elder Dragons. Not just we as players, but neither does the Pact. And its a pity this controversial aspect of the mystery is not yet adressed in any way through our oh-so growing Living Story throughout the months.

+1

I trust it will… eventually.

Ludovicus.7980:

JesseyFranz.8362:

lakdav.3694:

Truth is, we dont know enough about the nature of Elder Dragons. Not just we as players, but neither does the Pact. And its a pity this controversial aspect of the mystery is not yet adressed in any way through our oh-so growing Living Story throughout the months.

+1

I trust it will… eventually.

I get the feeling that right now we are being introduced to the characters and the setting, and in the releases to come, we’ll be fighting alongside Braham, Rox and Ellen against an elder dragon threat, supported various parties such as Kryta nobility, Black Lion Trading Company, and so on.

Tuomir.1830:

I get the feeling that right now we are being introduced to the characters and the setting, and in the releases to come, we’ll be fighting alongside Braham, Rox and Ellen against an elder dragon threat, supported various parties such as Kryta nobility, Black Lion Trading Company, and so on.

Now that you mention it, this could be true. But I sincerely hope this isn’t true because I want an expansion to show us all the new things and not a “living story”.

JesseyFranz.8362:

Tuomir.1830:

I get the feeling that right now we are being introduced to the characters and the setting, and in the releases to come, we’ll be fighting alongside Braham, Rox and Ellen against an elder dragon threat, supported various parties such as Kryta nobility, Black Lion Trading Company, and so on.

Now that you mention it, this could be true. But I sincerely hope this isn’t true because I want an expansion to show us all the new things and not a “living story”.

The devs said that they want to do the former. I’m ok with that. They’ve been able to deliver decent fixes and overhaulments alongside the living story.
The fact that they’ve not done so in a big bash makes it seem that it’s not been much. But they’ve don quite a lot.

Ludovicus.7980:

The devs said that they want to do the former. I’m ok with that. They’ve been able to deliver decent fixes and overhaulments alongside the living story.
The fact that they’ve not done so in a big bash makes it seem that it’s not been much. But they’ve don quite a lot.

Colin said in the interview from this month that they don’t know yet wether they will give us an expansion or give us the new content trough living story. I personally prefer the old school expansion because of the nostalgia, seeing trailers months before, going to the shop to buy it and install etc.

And I never said they didn’t give us much in the “Living Story”.

JesseyFranz.8362:

Ludovicus.7980:

The devs said that they want to do the former. I’m ok with that. They’ve been able to deliver decent fixes and overhaulments alongside the living story.
The fact that they’ve not done so in a big bash makes it seem that it’s not been much. But they’ve don quite a lot.

Colin said in the interview from this month that they don’t know yet wether they will give us an expansion or give us the new content trough living story. I personally prefer the old school expansion because of the nostalgia, seeing trailers months before, going to the shop to buy it and install etc.

And I never said they didn’t give us much in the “Living Story”.

Even though I do share the nostalgia. I like to embrace the new things.
And this has been a trend in this game. Trying to do draw out of the frame. I’d like to see how this living world thing develops through the next year.
I think we’ll have surprises like the dungeons that are coming back to us through fractals.
I’m curious, that’s why I want to see at least a year of living story.

But if they could manage to throw an expansion at us while doing living story, that would be ZOMGWTFAWESOME!

TBH, I’d rather not have a living story that gives us one new zone or so in an ever multi-month long campaign against an Elder Dragon (face it, sooner or later they will go after the other Elder Dragons) or god forbid, getting access to Elona – one zone at a time each month! >.<

Yeah… in such cases, an expansion would be much better. But when expanding the story of pre-existing zones (or small zones like Southsun or Labyrinthine), then living story is adequate.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

TBH, I’d rather not have a living story that gives us one new zone or so in an ever multi-month long campaign against an Elder Dragon (face it, sooner or later they will go after the other Elder Dragons) or god forbid, getting access to Elona – one zone at a time each month! >.<

Yeah… in such cases, an expansion would be much better. But when expanding the story of pre-existing zones (or small zones like Southsun or Labyrinthine), then living story is adequate.

I agree

lakdav.3694:

What happens with all that power? Necromantic power, might we add!

It’s why necromancers are so OP now. All that power from the dead Zhaitan has flowed into every necromancer in the game.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

TBH, I’d rather not have a living story that gives us one new zone or so in an ever multi-month long campaign against an Elder Dragon (face it, sooner or later they will go after the other Elder Dragons) or god forbid, getting access to Elona – one zone at a time each month! >.<

Yeah… in such cases, an expansion would be much better. But when expanding the story of pre-existing zones (or small zones like Southsun or Labyrinthine), then living story is adequate.

actually when we know that we have to take back many tarrains from Palawa Yoko’s Army – that “map-by-map” living story method would be understandable and it have a chance to be rather well-done (You know like we had to take controll over southsun – just more difficult and takes more time…)
(for example – for first aim – Jarrin Plains of Istan Island – we can take some position in first two-week part and the whole two weeks we are making it through by some intersting events to the next part which is… retaking Sunspear great hall or start with retaking sunspear great hall in the first half of the week, and two-week-patch evaluates into retaking Camadan – just let it not be so bugged as ancient karka)

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

TBH, I’d rather not have a living story that gives us one new zone or so in an ever multi-month long campaign against an Elder Dragon (face it, sooner or later they will go after the other Elder Dragons) or god forbid, getting access to Elona – one zone at a time each month! >.<

Yeah… in such cases, an expansion would be much better. But when expanding the story of pre-existing zones (or small zones like Southsun or Labyrinthine), then living story is adequate.

actually when we know that we have to take back many tarrains from Palawa Yoko’s Army – that “map-by-map” living story method would be understandable and it have a chance to be rather well-done (You know like we had to take controll over southsun – just more difficult and takes more time…)
(for example – for first aim – Jarrin Plains of Istan Island – we can take some position in first two-week part and the whole two weeks we are making it through by some intersting events to the next part which is… retaking Sunspear great hall or start with retaking sunspear great hall in the first half of the week, and two-week-patch evaluates into retaking Camadan – just let it not be so bugged as ancient karka)

This way I think the whole continent would be a lvl 80 zone – that’s too much. If we will ever get a new continent, we need some new leveling paths with them, or else it would be as abandoned as southsun.

Also,
*Kamadan
*Palawa Joko

it doesnt matter if the dragon is really dead or not what matters is after all the build up all the dynamic events and personal story missions, the conclusion was disappointing unsatisfying and anticlimactic. if they plan on keeping zhaitan dead then put a dynamic event inside his fallen corpse where we go in and destroy his heart to keep him from rising again or something. if they decide to have him survive then let me make sure that kittener is dead. final blow. coup de grace. double tap. kill confirm.

not pew pew turret spam and then he falls into the fog never to be seen again.

CLOSURE PLEASE!

What I want to know is can other necromancers control the risen instead? I guess hack them, for lack of better word.

Risen are not standard undead. They’re merely corpses turned into dragon minions. So a necromancer would have as much luck controlling risen as they would (or an elementalist would have) controlling icebrood.

In GW1 we had Verata’s Gaze to severe a necromancer’s control of a minion, which made the minion neutral (it would just stand around, or attack something randomly). Would this technically work against the Risen?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In GW1 we had Verata’s Gaze to severe a necromancer’s control of a minion, which made the minion neutral (it would just stand around, or attack something randomly). Would this technically work against the Risen?

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

Zhaitan is the weakest dragon of all the elder dragons that could explain the easy win + the asuran tech on that ship that kills zhaitan is immense who knows how much it deals damage and in the campaign story mode at level 67 or 66 nvm a group of researchers found an ancient tome to defeat zhaitan that could explain it

Ludovicus.7980:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In GW1 we had Verata’s Gaze to severe a necromancer’s control of a minion, which made the minion neutral (it would just stand around, or attack something randomly). Would this technically work against the Risen?

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

That is speculation not truth, just fyi

Narcemus.1348:

Ludovicus.7980:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In GW1 we had Verata’s Gaze to severe a necromancer’s control of a minion, which made the minion neutral (it would just stand around, or attack something randomly). Would this technically work against the Risen?

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

That is speculation not truth, just fyi

I know.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In GW1 we had Verata’s Gaze to severe a necromancer’s control of a minion, which made the minion neutral (it would just stand around, or attack something randomly). Would this technically work against the Risen?

As Konig wrote, the Risen are not necromantic minions, they are dragon minions made from corpses. The magic used by the dragons is most likely inherently different from the magic used by the races, so they don’t mix like that.

Ludovicus.7980:

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

Garrenhoff* and that “legacy” bit is 100% pure speculation.

There is no, nein, null, zero ties shown or hinted at being between Verata and Isgarren.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Ludovicus.7980:

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

Garrenhoff* and that “legacy” bit is 100% pure speculation.

There is no, nein, null, zero ties shown or hinted at being between Verata and Isgarren.

OK, Garrenhoff. And yes, I know it’s speculation. But that there are some hints, even though they are not direct. That’s why it is speculation.

There is just about as much likelihood that the White Mantle are the new owners of the tower, given one such member’s previous interest and their connection with Kryta.

Ludovicus.7980:

OK, Garrenhoff. And yes, I know it’s speculation. But that there are some hints, even though they are not direct. That’s why it is speculation.

If they are not direct hints, then they are not hints at all. They are wild speculation.
I don’t remember there being even a single mention of Verata… at all.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ludovicus.7980:

OK, Garrenhoff. And yes, I know it’s speculation. But that there are some hints, even though they are not direct. That’s why it is speculation.

If they are not direct hints, then they are not hints at all. They are wild speculation.
I don’t remember there being even a single mention of Verata… at all.

There’s no relation in GW2. But there was in GW1. I think there’s a video from wooden potatoes about that. I’m not saying you have to buy everything he’s saying, but take a look of it and you’ll see what I’m saying.

Ludovicus.7980:

There’s no relation in GW2. But there was in GW1. I think there’s a video from wooden potatoes about that. I’m not saying you have to buy everything he’s saying, but take a look of it and you’ll see what I’m saying.

I’m much better informed about GW1’s lore than Wooden Potatoes is, I can say that without a shred of doubt. He talks a lot of nonsense, and mixes fan speculation with lore facts. There is nothing to link Verata to Garrenhoff in GW2. They make no mention of Verata at all.

All that Verata ever did, was camp at Kessex Peak with his cultists (after fleeing persecution). It is assumed that just like Galrath, he was looking for the arcane knowledge inside the Wizard’s Tower. The player and his allies killed Verata, so lorewise he and his cultists would now be dead. There is no indication that neither him nor Galrath ever made it inside the Wizard’s Tower. And there are no indications that any of his cult survived after his demise.

Especially because his cult really kitten ed me off (with deciding to all pull at once instead of separately), so I decided to EXTERMINATE THEM ALL!!!!

Narcemus.1348:

Especially because his cult really kitten ed me off (with deciding to all pull at once instead of separately), so I decided to EXTERMINATE THEM ALL!!!!

I think we all exterminated them. Verata even was a bounty target at some point, so lore-wise I think it is safe to assume that he’s dead. And so is his cult. We slaughtered them all. Unless a lone surviving cult member shows up in GW2 all of a sudden, I see no reason to assume otherwise.

And for the record, I think Wooden Potatoes does a good job at making entertaining videos that get players interested in the lore. But I think people should stop bringing him up in this lore forum, he is not a credible source…. not at all.

Ludovicus.7980:

OK, Garrenhoff. And yes, I know it’s speculation. But that there are some hints, even though they are not direct. That’s why it is speculation.

Honestly, I haven’t seen a single thing that – directly or not – connects Isgarren to Verata. With the exception of being in the vicinity of the Wizard’s Tower.

I mean, hell, do we even know that Verata was interested in the Wizard’s Tower? No, we actually don’t.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Honestly, I haven’t seen a single thing that – directly or not – connects Isgarren to Verata. With the exception of being in the vicinity of the Wizard’s Tower.

I mean, hell, do we even know that Verata was interested in the Wizard’s Tower? No, we actually don’t.

That’s what I said, there’s no mention of Verata in GW2 at all. No connection to Isgarren… not even a minor one. There is NOTHING, zero, nada, to link Verata to any of this.

lakdav.3694:

Correct me if im wrong, but i think it is safe to assume that the Guild Wars Universe works with the laws of lingering (cant find a better word for it atm, you’ll get what i mean)

Matter, Energy, and most propably Magic cannot be destroyed, only altered, redirected, changed. (I wasnt sure about this last part until the whole ‘magic sponge’ thing from the Zephyrites.) Just as killing Abaddon was not enough, i suspect simply shooting down the manifestation of a force propably more powerful than a god is not enough. Should not be enough.

What happens with all that power? Necromantic power, might we add! Raising the dead and stuff. Taking down an undead and claiming it to be dead for real just because it doesnt move for months (disregarding the ages it spends without any activity)… Now consider this with the undead manifestation of the strongest necromantic force in the world! I wouldnt trust it to be dead for real if i danced on the bones!

Truth is, we dont know enough about the nature of Elder Dragons. Not just we as players, but neither does the Pact. And its a pity this controversial aspect of the mystery is not yet adressed in any way through our oh-so growing Living Story throughout the months.

i agree that he might be back for round 2,they dont die per se,its a cycle,also the dissapoitments of the last fight is huge,heres to hoping they bring a round 2 with the anniversary ^^