Guild Wars 2

Anet, PLEASE. I am TIRED of my character being so snooty towards Caithe. I am personally beyond ready to forgive the poor character! She’s lonely, one of her old friends died, her ex died and attacked her as a plant beast, her old guild doesn’t exist any more, her tree mother is barely recovering from almost dying and can’t talk to her, no one understands her despite her explaining very clearly why she behaved the way she did while Mordremoth was tearing at her mind and she was freaking out.

My character is ALSO a Sylvari and should understand. I am sick of everyone, from my character to the supporting characters, pushing Caithe away and treating her like they don’t want her around. The rejection going on here is very cringe worthy and personally upsetting. The fact I can’t simply skip the cutscenes makes it annoying, mostly because Caithe continues to hang around and be emotionally abused by the only people she really knows. It’s gross.

Yeah, although I myself feel some hesitance towards Caithe is still warranted, I couldn’t help but think “are we still doing this?” when my Sylvari continued to give her a hard time in Tarir. I think we need to spend some time with her again, setting this record straight.

OrangeJuicy.3718:

Caithe continues to hang around and be emotionally abused by the only people she really knows. It’s gross.

After Faolain, I’m sure she’s used to it. She might even like it.
= |

Honestly, I’m upset coming from the other direction. A Charr would not tolerate a traitor. I expected “kill first, ask questions later” and not “make traitor-Caithe godmother to my new baby dragon.” I wouldn’t trust her with lit dynamite if I’d stapled it to her and wrapped it duct tape, but I’m supposed to turn my back on her while she “takes care of” a dragon? It smacks of idiot-plot, and if anything ill happens from it, I’ll be quite terse and irritated.

+1 to what Rauderi wrote.

and, because this can go the other way… Anet, PLEASE, I’m soo TIRED of you letting Caithe being around, alive and kicking, and making my character to trust her with a dragon.

I agree with OP.

Agreed. More Caithe less Taimi. Make LS3 great again.

Hahaha. Taimi rocks. Caithe creates debate. That’s nice too…
But really, she’s just crazy and nobody should trust her with hard responsabilities. She deserve a rest, some not-epic friends and possibly a very thorough psychotherapy to recover from killing inocent people, being manipulated by her girlfriend and keeping quiet about info that could have saved a lot of their brothers and allies.

I’m on the other end. I feel like caithe got off pretty easy. She deserves from serious reprimands for her actions. Sure she has shown remorse, but if remorse was all it took to be acquitted of crimes, then yea, this world would go drown the drain faster than Orr did.

I’m still slightly upset we had no choice in making Caithe the caretaker of the scion. I wouldn’t trust her within 10,000 feet radius of Tarir without some proper supervision. The only way I wouldn’t kill Caithe when she got that close to Tarir is if she had at least 4 Exalted with a blade at her throat. And now I’m entrusting the Scion to her? yea, fat chance, its only because the writers forced me to forgive that rogue.

I agree with the OP, Caithe should stop being talked to like that. But I do have to say, when the Commander wanted Caithe to guard Aurene, and when the Commander said that Caithe “had been a lot of things, but was never an enemy of this dragon”, it gave me hope that the snooty diologues toward her might finally start to be over with. Caithe even said that she was confused the whole time, she didn’t know who to trust. And that one HoT story instance where Caithe was running with the egg on her back and Faolain vinewraith popped up, she didn’t give the egg to her, she said no, and I think everyone should be more understanding, and have BOTH sides of the story in mind.

I think the problem is the tone of the story in GW2 is not crystal clear. Sometimes it is very silly and light, almost like MLPony, and sometimes it become much more grittier and serious. It is really good if you look at it from a “variety is good” point of view, but it can make some characters in the story suffer from incoherence, be it internal, in the way they should behave (The commander is the primary offender here) or external, in the way other characters treat them (Here Eir is a very good example).

Tyria as a whole is very inconsistent when treating Caithe, so is not so strange people have divided opinions about her.

In MLPony, Transformes or even in Narnia (Which is way more serious) it would be totally ok to give someone in doubt an opportunity to prove their goodness. In TLODR, GITS or even Gargoyles (Which is way more disney), it would be extremely awkward to allow such thing, unless there is no way to avoid it.

I tend to prefer the more serious approach to the story, so in my eyes Caithe is being treated with a really soft glove for the things she has done.

If you make a list comparing her good actions with her bad actions (Concrete actions with consequences, not abstract intent without evidence), she really need to be put under custody. By the other hand, the same could be said about our own commander…

I do not hate Caithe. In fact I think that a character who is willing to betray PCs trust adds a very interesting dimension to the game. I do dislike that we are essentially required to trust someone that we should not with something as important as the baby dragon.

The potential for interesting interpersonal conflict between important characters seems to be being squandered here. Even so Caithe is probably my favorite NPC in the game, in no small part due to just how horribly flawed she is as a person. She deserves both sympathy and disgust from us. Much more interesting than most of the characters in game IMO.

Caithe heard the voice of Mordremoth and look- when Wynne said to Caithe “We are meant to serve it” (a dragon), she took it to heart.
But this was absolutely different than any of Sylvari I think, that even when she heard the powerful voice of Mordremoth “Bring the Egg to me!!!” She didn’t give it to him. And she appeared in the Mystery Cave and she said:
“Caithe: The egg must be protected.
Caithe: You and I are on the same side. Don’t ever forget that, my friend.”

After this I had not any pretensions to her. But the Commander had still pretensions to
her. And the Commander forgot her words from the Golden Cave…

Caithe shows herself as the character, who keeps promises in heart, in contrast to the Commander.

Caithe showed herself to not be a friend at all, treating the other main characters, including the commander as lesser allies (or merely tools) o include if or when she felt like it and keeping them in the dark, stringing them along, otherwise.

This makes her a much more interesring character.

I still think both she and the Pale tree are responsable for a lot of the dmg suffered by the pact in HOT. They didn’t say a word about mord-sylvari thing to the comm or the first born in charge of the pact that was heading towards the very dragon.

Hope they wont do it again with Taimi.

Taimi is good character, yet…

I really hope that the floor from “Taimi’s Game” doesn’t mean that she works for Inquests.

https://twitter.com/Zlinnt/status/780158068277469184

She said that only has access to the lab. (And Moto), but I don’t think he could do it, because he has another interest in Rata Sum.

Taimi is a little liar and she is very suspicious.

Arden.7480:

Taimi is good character, yet…

I really hope that the floor from “Taimi’s Game” doesn’t mean that she works for Inquests.

https://twitter.com/Zlinnt/status/780158068277469184

She said that only has access to the lab. (And Moto), but I don’t think he could do it, because he has another interest in Rata Sum.

Taimi is a little liar and she is very suspicious.

Given her personality and that she’s tutored by Zojja, as well as having several near-death experiences at the hand of the Inquest, I doubt she will collaborate with them in the slightest anytime soon.

I think you meant she has another interest in Rata Novus, but yea, of course. She does it to help us, but also because she loves the work she gets to do there. She’s a scientist at heart. She wants to unravel every little screw in Rata Novus given she had the time and mobility for it.

The way I see it Caithe didn’t trust anyone with the egg. This must have started at the end of LS1 (she probably felt Mordremoth’s presence from then on). I doubt that the Sylvari all felt it at the same time, plus they probably didn’t know what it was. Just a gut feeling of sorts. Then she finds out about the package the Master of Peace is carrying and probably decided well before finding him that she must take the egg, nobody else. Including the player..

As already pointed out, this was also made more clear when Faolain attacks you in Auric Basin and she tells her to basically back off and stay away from the egg. When you take the egg, being guided by an Exalted she most likely realized at last that it wasn’t her task (plus she couldn’t really run from Faolain as she was being assaulted). The next time you see her she already knows you’ve brought the egg to safety and tries to help you out by following you into the heart of Maguuma (Dragon’s Stand.. though I find the heart more appropriate :P). It is there where Braham outright calls her a traitor after you find Logan and Zojja, perhaps not knowing all the details of what happened outside Tarir.

I think it’s fair against her to have mistrust in episode 1. Even though we had a long break in between, the game storyline technically didn’t. In episode 1 it’s still fairly fresh and throughout those chapters you as the commander gradually start to accept her decisions. That’s just how I see it at least, it’s hard for them to properly communicate the story’s intentions with the budget they have assigned in terms of scope/development time etc.

I don´t despise her for stealing the egg, I despise her for being a muppet in ls2, I find it nearly inexcusable what she did there.

I don´t trust morally questionable people to safeguard something of great value in general, and she is clearly the mentally weakest of the known firstborn.
But in another threat someone speculated that Aurene as the probably new plant greater dragon can command/influence her anyway, so her guarding the egg is ok as long as the Luminate stays close to shake her head and walk in if Caithe wants to teach her shady ways to Aurene.

@Ardid
No Autobot would trust Starcream carrying a white flag. Strange enough, Optimus Prime always looks to redeem Megatron despite knowing that he probably won´t have success. If I would have to relate her to a Transformer, she would be Jetfire on the good side or Lockdown on a more neutral/evil side.
In Gargoyles, I would set her close to Xanatos or MacBeth. Both are basically honorable persons but know it alls.

I have little sympathy for Caithe.

The egg was a game-changer in the fight against dragons, and the PC was given a calling to protect it. At a time when you have sylvari turning on the rest of the pact due to Mordremoth’s influence, she turns on you as well. To make matters worse, she did so of her own volition. I certainly would never trust her again.

I think she got off too easy.
I can’t imagine leaving her with the egg after what she has done, she should at LEAST be exiled.

I agree with OP, I never hated Caithe and its very offputting when my character is forced to be so mean to her.

Ideally, key points in some instances would have dialogue options (with the same outcome of course), that you can either pick yourself, or are picked for you based on your dominant personality trait in the game.

Nah, the murderer deserves all the hate she gets.

Am I the only one that remembers she killed a whole village of friendly centaurs for her girlfriend?

Arena Net choose the wrong characters to kill off during Heart of Thorns.

She’s well beyond an anti-hero, she’s a loose cannon and if she could kill sisters, and villages and everything for a whimsical belief, then how long until she sacrifices us, or Aurene for something stupid? I want her locked up. She’s beyond a loose cannon, she’s a torch in a gunpowder factory

irony of this thread is…
that while on one side community seems to be crying for “darker” storywriting

on the other hand they throw so much hate on character which is written in the way they actually demand

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

welp if you throw so much hate on such character you sould not be surprised for not getting more of “darker” storywriting……

I can’t stand Caithe. I don’t trust her. I never will. Its a shame that Anet is not letting my character turn her into coleslaw. She’s slaughtered the innocent. She back-stabbed her friends. She stole from me.

Traherne was annoying at times, but he should have lived and Caithe should have burned.

Krinstin.6287:

I think she got off too easy.
I can’t imagine leaving her with the egg after what she has done, she should at LEAST be exiled.

“Caithe: I was right; better no future than that. I have to see this through, no matter what. Mordremoth has to die.
Commander: Glad to hear you say that…but you’ll have to prove it before I fully trust you again.”

" You may never trust me again. I accept that. But right here, right now, you can rely on me."

We could guess, that she will prove her loyalty. I am glad that LS3Aurene reunited the Commander and Caithe again. She is a part of the history of Tyria (she killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth).

She is a Firstborn, and if she died, the last influential Firstborn would die. We have not- Wynne, Faolain, Trahearne, Riannoc.

She made the bridge between Sylvari and other Races. And she destroyed this bridge, when she stole the Egg, and we have to give her time to rebuild what she destroyed. And I think, that she is in a good way to do it.

Just give her the last chance and if she will fail, we will “personally send [Caithe] to the Mists.”

Lord Trejgon.2809:

irony of this thread is…
that while on one side community seems to be crying for “darker” storywriting

on the other hand they throw so much hate on character which is written in the way they actually demand

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

welp if you throw so much hate on such character you sould not be surprised for not getting more of “darker” storywriting……

Caithe isnt being written as darker. The exact opposite in fact.

Ashen.2907:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

irony of this thread is…
that while on one side community seems to be crying for “darker” storywriting

on the other hand they throw so much hate on character which is written in the way they actually demand

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

welp if you throw so much hate on such character you sould not be surprised for not getting more of “darker” storywriting……

Caithe isnt being written as darker. The exact opposite in fact.

Exactly, she did things by any standard unforgivable, and the commander is all like ‘ye, lets be friends again. Here’s a dragon whelp that can decide the future of this world. Have fun you two’.
It doesn’t really get much more mylittlepony than that.

I don’t “hate” Caithe, and I think just killing her would make a very weak story. But, even if she really proves her good intent (Wich she still hasn’t done), she is still accountable for a lot of the pact loses, and I don’t see how anyone on tyria could trust her anymore, specially the better informed commander. It doesn’t make sense.

Thats my point: while I like Caithe’s ambiguity and dark craziness, the story is taking that behavior backwards, making a huge incoherent mess out of it.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

Yup, Caithe is simply Chaotic Good, an orientation that few to no other characters in GW2 have imo.

Some people hate her to the extreme, and honestly its a bit offputting how much they hate her. Its almost an unhealthy amount of hate towards a character in a videogame. Its just a shame that people can’t see that she is truly a chaotic good character, one whose intentions are in the right place, but her methods are not. Yet people on these forums act as if she is literally kitten

OriOri.8724:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

Yup, Caithe is simply Chaotic Good, an orientation that few to no other characters in GW2 have imo.

Some people hate her to the extreme, and honestly its a bit offputting how much they hate her. Its almost an unhealthy amount of hate towards a character in a videogame. Its just a shame that people can’t see that she is truly a chaotic good character, one whose intentions are in the right place, but her methods are not. Yet people on these forums act as if she is literally kitten

Does chaotic good run away with an egg that the commander knows can save the world? As far as I’m concerned, she’s just a sylvari who ran away with a gamechanging ticket and didn’t once stop to try to talk. She said she didn’t trust us, so why would we trust her? thats just chaotic neutral at best

OriOri.8724:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

Yup, Caithe is simply Chaotic Good, an orientation that few to no other characters in GW2 have imo.

Some people hate her to the extreme, and honestly its a bit offputting how much they hate her. Its almost an unhealthy amount of hate towards a character in a videogame. Its just a shame that people can’t see that she is truly a chaotic good character, one whose intentions are in the right place, but her methods are not. Yet people on these forums act as if she is literally kitten

Spoiler HoT/Living Story/etc. inside

I can buy the idea that Caithe is chaotic good. I have certainly played enough characters of that alignment in DnD over the years. But, it is not a get out jail, or any consequences for your actions, free card. This is particularly true when involved in a war for the survival of entire species on a grand scale.

The road to perdition is paved with good intentions.

I think I agree with the alignment classification.

Chaithe is most likely a Chaotic Good type. Now mi question is: How could anyone trust a Chaotic Good character, even in the most barely realistic setting?

Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil people usually seek personal gain, so they can be controlled by letting them get what they want. They have a rational way you could work around. At minimum, you just know they are dangerous and avoid them. Also, they are uncommon.
Chaotic Evil ones truly want to destroy everything, which puts them right in the immediate focus of any law and force of order. They tend get themselves killed or caught soon enough, and they are really rare.

The point is: evil people know they are evil, and are limited by that knowledge.

Chaotic Good ones, on the other hand, are the most dangerous kind of people even in real world. They are convinced that they are always the good ones. They feel entitled to do whatever they feel is right without any remorse, not caring about what the rest think, what is the social custom or what are the laws. THEY LITERALLY DON’T GIVE A KITTEN ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE. And they are extremely common. They start and fight wars in the name of their benevolent ideologies, they burn books and art deeming them evil, they stone people and censor ideas that question them without thinking twice.

TLDR: IMO, stupid is FAR worse than evil. I will never let Caithe in charge of Aurene, not because she could be evil, BUT because she think she is good.

Some of you use the Chaotic Good alignment as an example, but then you go and quote it in ways that indicate you have -no- idea what being Chaotic Good is about.

Wikipedia doesn’t have the latest 5th edition D&D example, but does cover the gist of it:
“A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society.”

So, a CG character disdains rules that get in the way of doing what they consider “the right thing”. A CG character will try to get things done around rules which will feel to that perspective as being stupid, and they do acknowledge that law/order is there and that going contrary to that can be self-defeating, but will happily round corners if doing so will get the job done and that they can get away with it.

My own take is that I find the Commander to be acting in an extremely entitled fashion regarding this. I don’t perceive him as ordained to take care of the egg. I don’t get how he got in such in a twist that Caithe went " no time to explain", grabbed the egg and just plain vanished.

No one found her. Not her, not Mordremoth’s minions, until we ran her to ground in the golden cave. There she assured us we were on the same side, and ably made her escape when the Shadow of the Dragon showed up..

She was consistently able to keep Modremoth’s minions off her back and got extremely close to Tarir. If we hadn’t delayed Ruka, Caithe might have been the one that Ruka would have helped escort away from Vinewrath-Faolain.

To me, the issue is that the game just decided that Caithe failed in her course of action and made the Pact Commander feel extremely entitled by it – so much kittenyness over not being in control. It could have gone rather differently: Caithe could have, on her own, kept the egg out of Mordremoth’s clutches, broug it to the exalted, succeeded her trials, and when we’d have caught up, Caithe would be victorious in the eggchamber in a “Look, I brought it to safety while Mordremoth’s was kicking the butts of everyone else”.

We would be singing a different song then. Probably something like “Good job, but please don’t scare us like that again”. Nothing traitorous then.

Ultimately, Caithe thought she could do it, and if she was the only one involved, it would allow her to not leave anything to chance. All things considered, it wasn’t necessarily a bad call. Ultimately, i kind of wish she had just kept us more in the loop; she just didn’t.

I call that unfortunate, misguided under arduous circumstances. But not treacherous.

So, yeah, I thought the commander was being pretty pig headed.

The sense of entitlement rests with the individual deciding, without consulting anyone else involved, that the right to make unilateral decisions affecting, potentially, everyone else in the world, rests solely with her.

Amaimon.7823:

Ashen.2907:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

irony of this thread is…
that while on one side community seems to be crying for “darker” storywriting

on the other hand they throw so much hate on character which is written in the way they actually demand

very early in her life caithe has been forced to make tought calls
she made those calls
she’s not goody-to-shoes [like some other character we’ve seen in living world updates….] but her “orientation” in general scheme seems right

even when her ways are questionable

welp if you throw so much hate on such character you sould not be surprised for not getting more of “darker” storywriting……

Caithe isnt being written as darker. The exact opposite in fact.

Exactly, she did things by any standard unforgivable, and the commander is all like ‘ye, lets be friends again. Here’s a dragon whelp that can decide the future of this world. Have fun you two’.
It doesn’t really get much more mylittlepony than that.

That last sentence made me laugh. I wholeheartly agree with you.
You couldn’t have explained it better.

I just want to say that we cannot punish, we cannot banish Caithe, because this is not her fault that she got 2nd Wyld Hunt… This is part of every Sylvari, and if you didn’t play Sylvari, please don’t say about it. She was called 2 times, as 1st Sylvari and this is absolutely unique. This is why she didn’t and won’t die.

I thought that Mordremoth called her to steal the Egg, but I was wrong. The Dream- the biggest “Mentor” of Sylvari called her 2nd time as I said. Even the Commander if you play Sylvari, had not 2nd Wyld Hunt, and this is why Pale Tree was surprised, she is first Sylvari, who has 2nd Wyld Hunt- protect the Egg.

The Wyld Hunt for every Sylvari, which has been created by us, have to kill Zhaitan. If you play Human, or Charr this is called duty.

The Wyld Hunt of Caithe was more powerful than Commader’s voice, than Mordremoth’s. She connected with the Dream even more than any Sylvari.

This is gorgeous and absolutely fantastic.

She just was wrong that she has to bring the Egg to Tarir, but she had not vision like the Commander, and she just didn’t know.

She is not guilty that a lot of Pact’s member died. The Pact had to stand against the power of the Jungle, and I cannot find any relationship between Caithe and the Pact. She strode her way, the Pact his way.

And the proof for my opinions: “So far Caithe is the only known Sylvari to have more than one Wyld Hunt, her first to slay Zhaitan and her second was to protect Glint’s Egg.” ~https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wyld_Hunt

Arden.7480:

I just want to say that we cannot punish, we cannot banish Caithe, because this is not her fault that she got 2nd Wyld Hunt… This is part of every Sylvari, and if you didn’t play Sylvari, please don’t say about it. She was called 2 times, as 1st Sylvari and this is absolutely unique. This is why she didn’t and won’t die.

Is not her fault that she got a 2nd Wyld Hunt. It IS her fault HOW she fulfilled it. Example: My mom ask me to go to the grocery and buy some candy. I choose to cross through my neighbor very well kept flowers and destroy them. Is this my fault or not? Spoiler: Yes, it is.

Arden.7480:

I thought that Mordremoth called her to steal the Egg, but I was wrong. The Dream- the biggest “Mentor” of Sylvari called her 2nd time as I said. Even the Commander if you play Sylvari, had not 2nd Wyld Hunt, and this is why Pale Tree was surprised, she is first Sylvari, who has 2nd Wyld Hunt- protect the Egg.

The Wyld Hunt for every Sylvari, which has been created by us, have to kill Zhaitan. If you play Human, or Charr this is called duty.

The Wyld Hunt of Caithe was more powerful than Commader’s voice, than Mordremoth’s. She connected with the Dream even more than any Sylvari.

This is gorgeous and absolutely fantastic.

Good for her? Yay?

Arden.7480:

She just was wrong that she has to bring the Egg to Tarir, but she had not vision like the Commander, and she just didn’t know.

So she decided to steal the egg from her friends and allies without giving any explanation, and ran with it to nowhere. Just what any nice soul would do?
Example: My mom ask me to bring the family puppy to the vet. When my brothers show up saying they can go with me, I decide to grab the puppy and jump through the window, even though I don’t know where the vet is. My brothers seems to know where we should go, so I’ll follow them from a distance. I will never ask them anything or ask them for help, because my mom spoke to ME. Nothing wrong with that.

Arden.7480:

She is not guilty that a lot of Pact’s member died. The Pact had to stand against the power of the Jungle, and I cannot find any relationship between Caithe and the Pact. She strode her way, the Pact his way.

Of course. She didn’t have any piece of vital info that could have prevented half the sylvari from turning into monsters.
Example: My mom explain to me that there’s a cake in the oven, but ask me to not tell anyone because it is a surprise. Then the oven catch fire, and the kitchen began to burn. I decide to get out of the house, to a safer place, but OF COURSE I don’t say anything to my brothers in the second floor, BECAUSE THE CAKE IS A SECRET! Better to see them die in the flames.

Arden.7480:

And the proof for my opinions: “So far Caithe is the only known Sylvari to have more than one Wyld Hunt, her first to slay Zhaitan and her second was to protect Glint’s Egg.” ~https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wyld_Hunt

Fantastic. We can agree then: Caithe is the only known Sylvari to have more than one Wyld Hunt. This seems to turn people automatically innocent from any wrongdoing they do.

@Ardid – You just summed up part of what it means to be a chaotic good character though. That’s the whole point, if she did things the same way you would and you expect her to, with no surprises and whatnot, then she wouldn’t even be chaotic good, she would be lawful or neutral good.

Whether you agree with her methods or not, her intentions are clear and that is good enough for me and others. I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.

It’s ironic, that during the events of living story season 2 when Caithe betrayed us and her dark past was revealed, players raged at ANET for our player character being so accepting/trusting/forgiving of Caithe, and then after the events of Heart of Thorns wherein her betrayal esculated, and ANet adjusted our characters personality acordingly, players now rage at ANET for our player character being so untrustful/hateful of caithe… honestly, ANET can’t win. No matter what they choose for our character to feel, players will disagree. You have to make somewhat of a mental disconnect here guys, the character is not you. They have to tell a story, events have to occure, and those events have to affect our character. So Anet must make a story descision as to how they effect our character. Not everyone will like this desision, but Anet can’t tell a story unless it’s made.

Of course, they could go back to how personal story was done, wherein we get to choose, but personal story suffered in quality of story telling and lack of depth, that the more narrowed aproach Anet has taken since, has successfully amended.

So it’s up to you guys: freedom of choice in exchange for bland storytelling; or deep quality story in exchange for lack of choice? If you choose the latter you have to accept how ANET decides our characters take things.

And I was tired that Caithe continually got the ‘oh it’s ok’ pity until now. She has poor judgement and killed thousands with her incompetence. Honestly, I would hold her partially responsible for many of the Pact’s death by withholding critical Intel and have her executed. There is no way the families of the deceased would have allowed us, the Commander of the Pact, to just let Caithe go after all of this. The egg and the Centaur tribe is just overkill.

As for whether caithe is good or bad… well, as for her actions in the past: I accept that she was in the tent talking to the cheif centure, and thus did not know that Faolin was the one who initiated the fight. As such, caithe accepted Faolins word in the matter -that the centure attacked first- and did what appeared to be the right thing; she protected (what she thought to be) her innocent lover, faolin. So in that point, I feel she did no wrong.

But here is what I can’t accept: she killed one of the other firstborn, in order to protect the secret from faolin. I’m sorry, I don’t care how much she begged to be killed, if the choice where up to you, would you kill the innocent victim who is trying to protect your race, or kill the criminal who just masacured an entire centure herd, and would use that secret to crush your entire race? There is no question about the morality of Caithes descission here, she chose to kill the innocent victum rather than eliminate the criminal. No matter how you look at it, that is not a just choice.

As I’ve stated in other threads, I’m on the anti-Caithe side of things. But here, I want to focus on just one thing: Our encounter with her in the golden cave.

When she steals the egg and vanishes, we’re left with no idea where to go. So, it’s back to the Pale Tree for advice. And what is that advice? To run around and use special seeds to get glimpses into Caithe’s past in the hopes that it will show us where to look. So, we do this. We run around to a few places, have some nasty visions, and finally wind up at a sealed door.

THEN we trudge back to the Priory, get some advice there, and have to reenact an ancient ritual to get Divine Fire to open the door. (Caithe apparently has a key.) We get the fire, go back, open the door and… Caithe is still inside?

IF she stole the egg to get it to where it needed to go, then she should have been long gone before we ever got to that point. We wasted a ton of time trying to find the place and then get into it, why was she still there?

Then, she tells us that she wants to protect the egg, just as we do. That we’re on the same side. So… great! She knows we’re there to protect the egg. She knows we’re the ones that were given the vision about it, were chosen to deal with it, and we’re there to do just that. And yet, later, she goes on about how she didn’t know who to trust, even though right there she says she knows we’re on the same side.

Her excuses and the events leading up to them don’t add up.

(Personally, I think she was hoping to find some way to use the egg to free the sylvari from Mordremoth’s control without risk of them all dying when he was killed. She only gave up that plan when we got the egg back and put it out of her reach. With Mord and Faolain now dead and the sylvari just fine, it’s possible she’s reconsidering a lot of her past actions.)

OriOri.8724:

@Ardid – You just summed up part of what it means to be a chaotic good character though. That’s the whole point, if she did things the same way you would and you expect her to, with no surprises and whatnot, then she wouldn’t even be chaotic good, she would be lawful or neutral good.

Whether you agree with her methods or not, her intentions are clear and that is good enough for me and others. I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.

no, NO, stop that. I’ve read through this topic and some people try to push chaotic good on her. Thats not her. She’s chaotic neutral. She’s sacrificing everything for a means to the end.
E.g. there’s a war. You can send a messenger who stops at nothing to convince people to stop fighting: chaotic good
E.g. there’s a war. You can send caithe, which is technically throwing a nuke on the warzone effectively ending the war by ruining it for everyone. This is not chaotic good.

The messenger in your post is not chaotic good, hes neutral good at best (but really with just a single sentence describing him its effectively impossible to categorize him appropriately anyway). Caithe is absolutely not neutral, she is very much good aligned. Just because you don’t like her doesn’t change that. Just because you disagree with her methods doesn’t change that.

If she was neutral she would have always acted towards her personal best interest. Instead we see her multiple times acting against her personal interest (killing her sister is a big giveaway) in order to advance what she considers the greater good. There is no way she is a neutral character.

Im having a real issues with the story lines as well. Ive done the living sotry with 3 characters. 1 a female asura ranger, 2 a male norn warrior and 3 a male sylvari rev.

In all cases i feel like something is wrong, for instance on my asura i dont seem to know anything yet my GW2 story says i should be really intelligent and should be near a level of zojja and tamis which i am not.

My male norn back story is heart and bear and with a troubling past. Alot of his story line is helping others and fixing wrongs in his past since i wasnt perfect. Yet i judged caithe after all shes been threw and when Eir died im just there. I feel stupid at times because this is not how my character would act in any situation with the back story anet gave him.

The the sylvari one gets me the most, how do you not love the pale tree? As a sylvari you killed trahearne, saw faolin die and saw lets just say hundreds of thousands of your people change/die/ treated unfairly by others for simply being sylvari. As someone of mix decent, none of the lines coming from this characters mouth even make sense.

Obviously Anet couldnt put out a story that worked with there core idea of story and its been changed since then. No longer with the heart/fist/wisdom actions. Taking all that away its still a poor story which is sad since GW1 was god like in story and lore.

Right now GW2 is living off the mechanics which are ahead of every other MMO because the HOT story has been dropped flat on its face.

OriOri.8724:

The messenger in your post is not chaotic good, hes neutral good at best (but really with just a single sentence describing him its effectively impossible to categorize him appropriately anyway). Caithe is absolutely not neutral, she is very much good aligned. Just because you don’t like her doesn’t change that. Just because you disagree with her methods doesn’t change that.

If she was neutral she would have always acted towards her personal best interest. Instead we see her multiple times acting against her personal interest (killing her sister is a big giveaway) in order to advance what she considers the greater good. There is no way she is a neutral character.

If she was interested in the greater good, she would have ended Faolain after slaughtering those centaurs instead of Wynn. She and Wynn both knew that she only cared for power and had a chip on her shoulder for their Mother. Instead, she let Faolain live, then she formed the Nightmare Court, which later on, caused numerous more deaths and atrocities. Caithe’s judgement is horrible.

Zeivu.3615:

OriOri.8724:

The messenger in your post is not chaotic good, hes neutral good at best (but really with just a single sentence describing him its effectively impossible to categorize him appropriately anyway). Caithe is absolutely not neutral, she is very much good aligned. Just because you don’t like her doesn’t change that. Just because you disagree with her methods doesn’t change that.

If she was neutral she would have always acted towards her personal best interest. Instead we see her multiple times acting against her personal interest (killing her sister is a big giveaway) in order to advance what she considers the greater good. There is no way she is a neutral character.

If she was interested in the greater good, she would have ended Faolain after slaughtering those centaurs instead of Wynn. She and Wynn both knew that she only cared for power and had a chip on her shoulder for their Mother. Instead, she let Faolain live, then she formed the Nightmare Court, which later on, caused numerous more deaths and atrocities. Caithe’s judgement is horrible.

Blinded by love. Happens in stories all the kittening time.

Again none of this points to Caithe not working for the greater good, none of it.

OriOri.8724:

@Ardid – You just summed up part of what it means to be a chaotic good character though. That’s the whole point, if she did things the same way you would and you expect her to, with no surprises and whatnot, then she wouldn’t even be chaotic good, she would be lawful or neutral good.

Whether you agree with her methods or not, her intentions are clear and that is good enough for me and others. I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.

I DO think Caithe is working for the greater good. I DO believe the commander itself also believes that. That has never been the point for me at least. IMO She IS GOOD.

BUT.

Being good DON’T prevent you from making mistakes, and DON’T excuse you from being accountable for your faults. Being good also DON’T make you less stupid, unpredictable or dangerous. Being good doesn’t make you less a liability, specially when you have demonstrated, once and again, that your good choices hurt people.

The Commander shouldn’t never, ever, trust Caithe with anything, much less with a young dragon.

My point has never been “Caithe is evil”. My point has always been “Caithe is guilty”.

Good =/= Not-Guilty.

I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.