Guild Wars 2

I really like the way that Living Story has been handled with the Temporary Content. I think that many of the complaints about TempCon can be addressed by simply slowing down the schedule a bit and giving players more time with the content.

But I do not want to see the old LS TempCon brought back in some “replay mode” or any other manner. It’s gone, and should stay gone, because it’s better that way. I know that some players are upset that they missed some things, and others are upset that the content wasn’t around long enough. I get that. But I think it’s worth accepting that disappointment because the reward for doing something different is so awesome.

I’m not saying that those players who want the TempCon brought back are wrong. I just want to let you know why I think TempCon is awesome, and why I hope ANet doesn’t cave in and change how they’ve been doing things.

1. Much of the content that was removed is recurring content and will be back at some point anyway. Just do something else until it comes back. No big deal.

2. The amount of content that was removed and won’t be back is actually pretty small. This content was generally very story-specific content and would be out of place and annoying if it were left in the world anyway.

3. If they did leave the content in, you would do it for a little while, get bored with it, and then ignore it when you were done with it. We would have all this LS content lying around cluttering the place up and people would complain about that instead. Half of the game would be Southsun — abandoned and ignored.

5. Removing content when we’re done with it adds a sense of history and legend to the game that I find very enjoyable. I really like that there are things that happen and then go away, only to be remembered by those who were a part of it. I think that is romantic, and beautiful, and I respect ANet for having the kittens to do something that ambitious.

And you are kitten right I’m going to defend it because this is the content that I enjoy, and I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are yours. I don’t want the temporary content to come back. It’s better this way. I understand why you would be upset about the content that you missed, but if ANet caves in and brings all that stuff back so you can have what you want, then I don’t get the game that I want.

GW2 is supposed to be a different kind of game. GW2 isn’t supposed to be like all the other MMOs out there. If you don’t like the temporary content — if it bothers you so much — then maybe you are better off playing one of the hundreds of other MMOs that does things your way. I only have this one game that does temporary content like this, and if you ruin it for me then I have nowhere else to go to get it.

kitten right I’m defending it because it is amazing, and I love it, and I can’t get it anywhere else.

But it isn’t a different kind of game. It has shown it’s focus on grind, farm mentality very clearly, though I still have some hopes they will change in the end.

Sirendor.1394:

But it isn’t a different kind of game. It has shown it’s focus on grind, farm mentality very clearly, though I still have some hopes they will change in the end.

Sure, it’s not different in every conceivable way, but the ANet team has very different goals from other MMOs. They have very different values from other MMOs.

GW2 is very clearly a different kind of game, Sirendor. Very much so.

I read the whole thing and I’m unclear how making content permanent would alter the quality of the content or the core experience when playing it. It makes no difference to me that I can do the Personal Story instances today as opposed to a year ago, why should the Living World content be any different? I could do FotM last year and I can do it today.

The Molten Facility would make sense in the world of GW2 today. It was supposed to represent the Molten Alliance and their building weapons and their army. Despite the Molten Facility going away, the Molten Alliance are still around – they attack Tyria every four hours or so. It actually makes more sense for us to still be able to invade their facilities today than it does to have them removed. Did we suddenly stop caring about them?

How are the Rox and Braham instances from Flame and Frost dramatically different from any of the Personal Story instances? How is the Aetherblade Retreat different from a dungeon story mode (or even a dungeon explorable mode)? Instanced content doesn’t need to be removed – it doesn’t conflict with the world around you.

The events on Southsun are harder to argue for permanency – the island before the Secret of Southsun is different from the island today. The open world content needed to change, but the Canach instance and probably even the Kiel mission could both have been left behind.

At a certain point it’s a choice. If they choose to preserve the content they can avoid having core plot points in the open world (like Kiel’s presence in Lion’s Arch during the Dragonbash) and make sure all the important plot points are delivered in instanced. Honestly the only time the story seems to come across well is when it’s instanced. A lot of the Southsun stuff was left for the open world and a lot of people seemed to miss most of it.

If ArenaNet wants to do what Blizzard did with Cataclysm and fundamentally alter the world of Tyria with the Living Story, I’m all for it as long as they pace it correctly. If they want to add things then take them away four weeks later leaving the world almost exactly as it was when the game launched… I’m sceptical of what they are even accomplishing with that.

I see very little value in temporary content in the form that they’ve done this last year (aside from the evolution of Southsun and appealing to some people’s desire to be elite because they were around when others weren’t). I see a whole bunch of reasons why temporary content in the form that we’ve seen this last year is a bad thing.

1. me and lots of people aren’t talking about the recurring content

2. could be replayable in somekinde of instanced gamemode not in the world
southsun is not the same that it was and remade it worse that’s why its abandoned.

3. could be replayable in somekinde of instanced gamemode not in the world
yes but would give the returning player a reason to come back for CONTENT
and those players that missed it to get some stuff or just simply see it.

5. personal opinion

how in ANY way would make any difference to you if it would be perm in an instanced place you would still get your LS every 2 week

the only thing i see here is you just don’t want anyone to enjoy or play those content so you can feel unique ?? or something that you was there and got some stuff and archievs. seeing your posts how you totally make out that’s its the PLAYERS fault if they miss it some people have a some serious stuff to do that can even take for a month or more…..

Zoltreez.6435:

how in ANY way would make any difference to you if it would be perm in an instanced place you would still get your LS every 2 week

the only thing i see here is you just don’t want anyone to enjoy or play those content so you can feel unique ?? or something that you was there and got some stuff and archievs. seeing your posts how you totally make out that’s its the PLAYERS fault if they miss it some people have a some serious stuff to do that can even take for a month or more…..

It’s not about me being special. Video games don’t make me feel special; they’re just fun to play.

It’s about the content being special. It’s about the game world being alive. I know it’s hard to get your head around that, and it’s so easy to get fixated on the stuff that you’re “losing”, but getting to play in a Living World is totally worth it.

Here’s a quote from a Chris Whiteside interview from massively.com:

“I think once people start understanding what it is we’re doing, then they’ll start to get seriously excited about it. But for a player, if you miss something and you really wanted it or you hear about it afterward and you wanted it, there will be some disappointment. That’s the nature of the living world. It comes in and it’s exciting because it’s a limited-time thing, and then it goes away. If we don’t have that paradigm in the living world environment, I’m not sure how much of a living world it actually is in terms of an evolving narrative that synergizes with gameplay. I think it’s a huge bone of contention because it revolves around rewards, but we are always looking for ways to improve rewards. "

For me, being part of a Living World is the best reward. Better than any back skin or dungeon.

Oh yeah, recommended reading:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/guild-wars-2-living-story-interviews-and-lots-of-them

I’m still of the consensus that permanent content would be cool to have, however I could see how it would start to take up space, and as the OP has suggested if we were given an ample amount of time to complete the living story in a casual manner then I think that more people may enjoy it, I know that is my biggest frustration is the 2-week time frame to not only complete the achievements if you want to do them, but immerse yourself in the content, if it had a small story, or a dungeon, jump puzzles, you want to play those while they are here at a casual pace. More people would be able to enjoy the content if it wasn’t out of their reach.

I won’t say that I enoy the pace of the living story (I think having it last a little longer would be nice, 2 weeks for me is a stretch) but I can say that I always seem to have something to do. I also really like the idea of the living story, having something that’s constantly evolving. The only thing I dislike is that I have to rely on my own memory (for the most part) to keep track of the living story, where it’s been and what I’ve done. It’d be nice if under the Personal Story tab.. they changed that to just be a story tab that breaks down into the personal story and any living story arcs they introduce so that you can read back on it… maybe tie this into the achievements so that each piece of the living story is unlocked by attaining the appropriate achievements.

Anyways, yea, long story short, I’d just like to be able to keep better track as to my involvement in it similar to how the personal story is tracked (the history of it, what i HAVE done, not what I need to do, I think that part is already covered nicely).

Silent The Gray.3091:

I’m still of the consensus that permanent content would be cool to have, however I could see how it would start to take up space, and as the OP has suggested if we were given an ample amount of time to complete the living story in a casual manner then I think that more people may enjoy it, I know that is my biggest frustration is the 2-week time frame to not only complete the achievements if you want to do them, but immerse yourself in the content, if it had a small story, or a dungeon, jump puzzles, you want to play those while they are here at a casual pace. More people would be able to enjoy the content if it wasn’t out of their reach.

im think the space issue could be handled by expanding territory it doesn’t have to be big areas all at once but a new zone or two where this stuff ends up permanently. i think that how it could be handled a new area(or zone) every three months or so. leave parts of the zone unacessable til we get to that part of the ls

Those are all fair arguments, and I totally agree that you are within your rights to defend a game mode that you enjoy. Ultimately the final call lies with ANet, so what I’ll do here is just post my thoughts in response to yours:

1. I think nobody is (seriously) complaining about recurring content. It would not make sense for Halloween or Christmas stuff to stay around for the whole year, for instance. Some of us may grumble about not being able to play SAB or the Gauntlet whenever we want, but for the most part, we’re fine with content that departs and returns periodically, as long as it returns in a form that doesn’t exclude us from finishing stuff we weren’t able to complete the first time.

As an example, I managed to get all of the Gauntlet achievements save for “Light up the Darkness” last time. The devs did confirm that all of the achievements would still be completable the next time the Gauntlet comes back, so I’m perfectly happy with waiting till next time. I can continue to improve my skills and gear until then. Likewise, I’m sure there are plenty of other players who heard about the Clocktower, or carving pumpkins, and are eagerly awaiting a chance to experience it for themselves. I feel quite strongly that to deny these players the opportunity to do so, just because they weren’t around last year, would be extremely unfair.

2. I completely agree that some Living Story stuff should not come back. I, for one, don’t want to see Molten Periscopes, SAB gift boxes, and Jubilee balloons littering the landscape and clogging up the world with events that don’t necessarily fit in the map. But as a whole, these are small, self-contained events or items that don’t tell the player about the Living Story or offer unique rewards. (Grind-achievements like dancing at effigies or smashing periscopes notwithstanding. Those things are awful and should never come back.)

3. True, but the problem here is not so much that people are bored with it. Players automatically gravitate to whatever content is the quickest to do, with the biggest rewards. Why do you think so many people did CoF P1 runs → Deadeye farm runs →Frostgorge Champ train runs? Because it’s quick and profitable. That’s it. In a worst case scenario, things eventually get to a kind of “critical mass” where even players who don’t normally want to do that kind of content feel they HAVE to, because it’s so profitable that by not participating they’re effectively handicapping themselves for the rest of the game.

The problem with Southsun being so abandoned is not because players got bored with it; it’s because the difficulty is high enough that the rewards for being there is just not worth it most of the time. New content needs to be more carefully integrated with the world (and areas/events that are TOO profitable nerfed) so that all aspects of the world are equally attractive to be in, depending on what the player wants to do.

5. I agree that ANet continuing to add to the story of GW2 is a good thing. Nobody wants to play a game where all you get after release is balance patches and bug fixes. But I just don’t see how making Living Story content still accessible via a “Historian” NPC or through special instanced areas makes the experience any less meaningful for veteran players like you or I. We were still there at the original event; does the fact that, say, a famous rock band went on to play at many more identical concerts make the fact that we were at their inauguration concert any less amazing?

So yes, maybe the Molten Facility or the Aetherblade Retreat can’t be accessed in the open world anymore, but what’s the harm in having a Herald NPC (yes, THAT guy) sitting in your Home Instance that you can talk to to relive parts of the Living Story? They can then pull you (and your party) into an instanced area where you can play through the content at your leisure. How does that in any way impact on your own gaming experience?

Once they make a living story, I might care more for your defense. With very few exceptions we have only have ‘story’ … there’s nothing that makes it feel alive. And the story recently jumped over a shark, too.

Every two weeks a carnival pitches down tents in one zone or area, or maybe several, we are taken for a ride for two weeks and then the carnival is gone and the zone is back to it’s old self, without changes.

That is how I view this stream of updates. That is ok for themed holiday content. But for the living story that is the focus of several teams and seemingly most of their production effort, the results are weak.

Why would the zone change? I like this temporary content. It make players who played it a little more special, they give us thing that we can tell to our friends, what we had done in Tyria.

It’s much like the real life, if you miss out on something there is a small chance you will get to experience it again sometimes in the future.

Why not do a compromise? It is a game after all.

The compromise would be thus: Keep a playable “history” of the events in something like the Scrying Pool of GW1 was to Eye of the North. And say something like you’re “reliving history.” Don’t give much in the way of shinies (if any) for it. But this way, people won’t come into the game lost why in the world things are happening the way they are. Example: I missed the dragon bash content which started the aetherblade thing (from what I’ve heard). I come in the game and wonder why there are these aetherblades and where did they come from? Seriously… can’t Tyria have a newspaper or storytellers or something to catch up people to plot points that they missed? It obviously doesn’t have to be all the content, just catch people up on the key plot points.

This way, people who make it to the content can feel unique (as they have played all the content, as evidenced by their shiny loot, not just the story part) and people who didn’t make it to the content can at least catch up plot-wise and play a small instance of it so they don’t feel like they missed out on Tyrian history.

re: real life: people don’t want a game to work like real life. It’s a fantasy game. A lot of people play them to escape real life to a certain extent.

Lorelei.7809:

Why not do a compromise? It is a game after all.

The compromise would be thus: Keep a playable “history” of the events in something like the Scrying Pool of GW1 was to Eye of the North. And say something like you’re “reliving history.” Don’t give much in the way of shinies (if any) for it. But this way, people won’t come into the game lost why in the world things are happening the way they are. Example: I missed the dragon bash content which started the aetherblade thing (from what I’ve heard). I come in the game and wonder why there are these aetherblades and where did they come from? Seriously… can’t Tyria have a newspaper or storytellers or something to catch up people to plot points that they missed? It obviously doesn’t have to be all the content, just catch people up on the key plot points.

This way, people who make it to the content can feel unique (as they have played all the content, as evidenced by their shiny loot, not just the story part) and people who didn’t make it to the content can at least catch up plot-wise and play a small instance of it so they don’t feel like they missed out on Tyrian history.

re: real life: people don’t want a game to work like real life. It’s a fantasy game. A lot of people play them to escape real life to a certain extent.

You make some great points here. I like the idea of having some sort of in-game record of events that recalls the narrative of the Living Story for new and returning players (or any player, really, who just wants to check it out). I think, though, that ANet was hoping that the player community would fill that role. I think they envisioned guildmates chatting about it in guildchat with new members, or in LA mapchat. That kind of happens already, but the story is a little obtuse and hard to follow for a lot of players (myself included).

There are a couple of in-game items that do exactly what you’re talking about. Marjory’s Journal, and the Zephyr Sanctum Model both replay a scene from past Living Story Content. The problem is, both of those items are account bound and only work for the person who has them.

I think if they made that kind of item a staple of Living Story content, and made them sharable in some way, then players who participated in the content would have a way of sharing that experience with other players. And I don’t mean tradable, necessarily. But rather they could work like a Feast item does. You click it and it summons a temporary item into the world that anyone can interact with to replay the scene.

For me, Temporary Content sort of works in a mentality that you play through it and then trade it in for something else at your local GameStop. I guess this works for some people— I know a friend that constantly blazes through as many achievements/trophies as possible and then trades that game in for another one.

Content-wise, if I’m getting this right, I understand that each Living Story release is suppose to feel like a bi-weekly episode of our favorite TV shows. It’s an interesting concept, but if that’s the case, then there should be a way to at least relive those events in some way. This would be akin to using a DVR to play back previously missed episodes. Or (if ArenaNet wants to capitalize on this) like buying a box-set of previous episodes on DVD or Blu-Ray. Of course the big difference is that most TV shows are static where the outcome is not reliant on user interaction (exceptions to certain reality and game shows), while video games react heavily to user input.

For new players, they could visit a Living Story Herald and get a recap of what has happened in the previous episodes, and maybe even short flashback scenes of what went down during those events. They could even get some, if not all, the achievements related to it. This would be similar to using the Scrying Pool in the Hall of Monuments in GW1.

The iffy part would be the Rewards. I think the time-exclusive rewards such as titles, minipets, and armor skins could stay exclusive to that point of time so that those items maintain their prestige for a given length of time. They could remain exclusive for X amount of years, then they could be earned again through other sensible means (as in: not on the TP for over 900 gold). For instance, many of the holiday hats in GW1 were originally only available for that specific year until recently when you would get a token as a quest reward that would allow you to purchase a holiday hat once available from previous years.

Personally, I play to be rewarded for the virtual heroic feats that I do, which for me is what I find “fun” which I guess is another one of those funky words that carries certain mutual exclusivities amongst certain activities in the game.

Back on track, Temporary Content can be interesting, but there needs to be a suitable balance between Temporary Content and Permanent Content. There should also be some way for new players to jump in and fit in with those who have been there since the beginning.