Guild Wars 2

So, just an idea/theory, probably has been said before.
1. From the past year of LS, we’ve been introduced to a new villain, Scarlet, a Sylvari. We know she’s been working up to something quite big, and if we drag in the probes around Tyria, along with what we’ve seen recently, she might very well be trying something to do with the Energy Dragons absorb and eject considering the cycle of awakening/sleeping.
2. One of the LS releases was the Tequatl update, which was said to have something to do with the LS and would help set the stage for something later on. In terms of the continuity of the whole LS after, NOTHING has been said considering Tequatl.. Or what if it has, but we haven’t seen it yet?
3. In the Twilight Arbor- Aether path Update, we saw she came up with a Watchworked Oakheart – maybe she’s been messing with the actual “gift of life”?
Don’t tell me that was their way of giving a feature update some story to it, especially considering the Aether Path certainly had quite a big deal to do with Scarlet, plus the Tequatl update being something for later on. I don’t believe ANet would string story to content, but rather content to story.
4. According to the Timeline , Personal Story started in 1325 A.E(mid- 1325 AE, maybe? considering GW2 launched in August), and ended months after. Then the LS started in 1326 A.E. By this time, according to the story, players had already defeated Zhaitan. ANet said it themselves the fight’s design was rushed because they had to release the game.

With all this said, what if Scarlet is looking to somehow bring Zhaitan back? Not that he was ever dead, considering he IS UNDEAD, but maybe help him build his strength back, a possible way to “fix” what happened in the end of the PS.

It would certainly make sense that if ANet was going to start Season 2 with an Elder Dragon, it would be Zhaitan, considering he was the first one we defeated, and the fight didn’t do him justice.

Just before the tequatl update we had Scarlet’s Clockwork Chaos, invasions all around Tyria, then came SAB, whith no connection to Scarlet, what did she do in the meantime? Right after came the Tequatl update, and after that came the TA Update, with the Watchwork Oakheart(creating life?), after that came Halloween, also with no connection to Scarlet, and after came the ToN along with the Nightmares Within update which introduced us to yet another creation of Scarlets, the Toxic Hybrid. She seems to be messing with life itself.

Now let me try to “invalidate” possibly everything I just said.
In an interview in the Fall of 2013, Angel Leigh McCoy said that in 2014 she would be doing some “really cool stuff with the Sylvari”. Many have pointed to it possibly being about Mordremoth.
Also, from what I’ve gathered and read, the Elder Dragons CANNOT be killed, considering they are what balances the Magic/Energy in Tyria through.
Scarlet seems to have a lot of history to her before the Pact even defeated Zhaitan, and her motives may have come before as well.
This could possibly show that the 2014 LS has NOTHING to do with Zhaitan, however, it doesn’t completely invalidate it either.

Having said that, I do not see why the theory above is not plausable and I find it hard to believe we’d go more than one LS year without any news of Zhaitan, considering Risen are still about, considering Orr hasn’t been cleansed of it’s corruption(And yes, you can say it has to do with not dividing the playerbase whether they’ve reached that part of the PS or not, however, when this “problem” comes to ANets hands, they’ll have to choose between turning GW2 into a PS game or a LS game,or a hybrid if possible, changing their environments accordingly if they choose to focus on the LS platform), and considering it’s pretty well known that Elder Dragons cannot be killed, but rather Sealed off or put to sleep.

Your thoughts?

I came to a similar idea recently:
Scarlet’s looking for the dragon lich’s phylactery and the end of season boss is a zhaitan merged marionette boss battle.

Probably wishful thinking.

Alice.8694:

I came to a similar idea recently:
Scarlet’s looking for the dragon lich’s phylactery and the end of season boss is a zhaitan merged marionette boss battle.

Probably wishful thinking.

Ah, Alice in Wonderland it is. u.u

Your view is so narrow. You point right, but you are fixed … so many things happened that I even forgot what I did, but I know a lot and will take a new position in this world at the time I know who is the right for me. I touched the nightmare and it is everywhere, I didn’t see it, but now I see it everywhere. The nightmare is everywhere. I hope Scarlet forgives me what I did.

I don’t think the Living Story could possibly have anything to do with the Personal Story because the developers have stated they try to avoid contradictions/paradoxes between the living story and personal story. They don’t want to alienate people who haven’t yet completed their Personal Story so I doubt we’ll ever see a continuation of what happens in Orr and with Zhaitan unless they do it as an extension to the Personal Story, rather than through the Living Story.

Omega.6479:

I don’t think the Living Story could possibly have anything to do with the Personal Story because the developers have stated they try to avoid contradictions/paradoxes between the living story and personal story. They don’t want to alienate people who haven’t yet completed their Personal Story so I doubt we’ll ever see a continuation of what happens in Orr and with Zhaitan unless they do it as an extension to the Personal Story, rather than through the Living Story.

The Living Story unleashes what is written since release, but that will even change the world. I start to replay several parts of personal story out of curiosity, but the nightmare has to end and the world will change. How will new people go through the personal story if everything around is different (I don’t know how it will turn out, but really heavy stuff is going on)?

Uh, I just went through all of that in my PS, I don’t need to go through that again. I hope they leave Zhaitan dead instead of making all that effort over the span of 80 levels mean nothing.

Also, I’m really tired of undead zombies. Time to move along and let Orr heal.

Shanna.4762:

Uh, I just went through all of that in my PS, I don’t need to go through that again. I hope they leave Zhaitan dead instead of making all that effort over the span of 80 levels mean nothing.

Also, I’m really tired of undead zombies. Time to move along and let Orr heal.

For Orr to heal there needs to be a sort of closure to it, and it wasn’t given with the Zhaitan fight in the PS. There’s much more to be explored there, I hope they do. Again, everyone knows the design of that fight was rushed, so I’m sure they’ll do better next time.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Your view is so narrow. You point right, but you are fixed … so many things happened that I even forgot what I did, but I know a lot and will take a new position in this world at the time I know who is the right for me. I touched the nightmare and it is everywhere, I didn’t see it, but now I see it everywhere. The nightmare is everywhere. I hope Scarlet forgives me what I did.

Let me clarify. This isn’t what I wish happens, nor what I even think will happen, its just a possibility that ran through my head considering how Scarlet seems to be messing with life etc, and the sudden uprising of Tequatl. I guess it’s just me feeling the lack of closure towards Zhaitan and how after 1 year of LS and GW2 time, no news has been heard on Zhaitan, considering how Elder Dragons can’t be killed. I think I may have tied up Zhiatan to Scarlet a bit too much :p
What you said, is it some sort of quote? I don’t recognize it, but seemed interesting.

If ANet comes up with the bored-to-hell Risen and Zhaitan again… uhh. With they won’t ever do any undead related LW update. Like, litereally more than half of the game is about undead and I hate it.

Wish * /typo

Why there isn’t an edit button on these forums aviable for a half minute after posting?

SaltyDave.7346:

If ANet comes up with the bored-to-hell Risen and Zhaitan again… uhh. With they won’t ever do any undead related LW update. Like, litereally more than half of the game is about undead and I hate it.

Actually there is an Edit button :P Bottom right corner of your post.
Also, I wouldn’t agree half of the game is about undead, unless you count the Icebrood as undead.. There are other high level areas without undead. However, yes, a little more variety would be nice.
It’s inevitable though, Zhaitan is NOT finished, so they will implement a Zhaitan LS arc, hopefully not as dull as the last battle

I’m honestly curious to where you got your information that the Elder Dragons cannot be killed. Not that I’m calling you out on it, but I’ve never read anywhere about something like that.

What you’re saying does make sense in a way, but I honestly don’t want Anet returning to Zhaitan again. Sure the fight was rushed but you’re confusing closure with having a bad final boss fight. Closure was there at the end of the Personal Story missions. We cleansed Orr with Trahearne and the land was being healed but it was stated it would take time to recover and all that was left was defeating Zhaitan to stop the corruption once and for all. After doing the Arah Story Mode dungeon we defeat Zhaitan. Sure the fight was lame but we already know the reasons for that. I don’t see any clever or rational way of them bringing back Zhaitan.

As Risen would say, “Return to Orrrrr”. At some point we’ll need to go back and see how the cleansing is going on. However, I would prefer another ED in S2 than recycled Zhaitan.

A lot of this seems to make sense for Mordremoth, considering he is a jungle/earth dragon.

Xukavi.4320:

I’m honestly curious to where you got your information that the Elder Dragons cannot be killed. Not that I’m calling you out on it, but I’ve never read anywhere about something like that.

What you’re saying does make sense in a way, but I honestly don’t want Anet returning to Zhaitan again. Sure the fight was rushed but you’re confusing closure with having a bad final boss fight. Closure was there at the end of the Personal Story missions. We cleansed Orr with Trahearne and the land was being healed but it was stated it would take time to recover and all that was left was defeating Zhaitan to stop the corruption once and for all. After doing the Arah Story Mode dungeon we defeat Zhaitan. Sure the fight was lame but we already know the reasons for that. I don’t see any clever or rational way of them bringing back Zhaitan.

I’m not confusing things. From the view point that Elder Dragons can’t be killed(I’ll get to this after), defeating Zhaitan did not give us closure. Also, on the PS mission before Victory or Death, we helped Trehearne with the Cleansing of Ore Ritual, however, one year(in-game and out of it) after the ritual and the supposed defeat of Zhaitan, nothing has changed. This could be a matter to discuss in terms of the actual “Living Breathing World” Concept ANet is aiming for, and hopefully they’ll get there.

On to the Elder Dragons, I know I’ve seen this being said in an interview with devs, I think even before GW2 launched, I can’t remember which one exactly though, but I’ll explain why exactly and you’ll understand.
Elder Dragons have a sleeping and awakening Cycle. Their sole purpose is to maintain the balance of Magic in Tyria, magic is tied to life, and so, when an Elder Dragon awakens, he devours all life, absorbing all Magic, and goes to sleep. During this sleep Cycle, they slowly emit the gathered energy back to Tyria, thus giving birth to new ways of life.
They may seem like a threat, and they are, but they’re just keeping the balance(no opinion intended here, it just is). If the Elder Dragons were somehow killed, Tyria would suffer a great deal, and either, Magic would run wild, like what happened with Abaddon(I think it was him who gave magic to Tyrians) or Magic would simply not exist.
In the last cycle of their awakening, Giganticus Lupicus, amongst other races, were chased to extinction, and the Dwarves and other races hid underground, and I also read that they were the ones who performed a ritual to take them back to sleep, but im not sure on the latter.
" The only surviving records exist in dwarven legends and jotun stelae, and according to these records only five sentient races battled and survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise with knowledge of them: dwarves, jotun, forgotten, mursaat, and seers." – Wiki

I’ll tackle your points with the knowledge that I know of.

1- You make a good point with Orr being cleansed but it has been a year and it hasn’t recovered yet. It was specifically stated by Trahearne in the cleansing of Orr PS mission that the ritual he did would cleanse Orr and help it recover but that it would take a lot of time and only when Zhaitan is defeated. Sure I understand that given Anet wants a breathing living world they should show recovery of Orr, but that just can’t happen in the game unless they make all of Orr instanced with two different time stages. You can’t have Orr fully recovered in the world and then when a person starts a new character have it say that Zhaitan is corrupting and invading and we need to go to Orr to defeat him and his army but find out that Orr is cleansed. I think that given time they will introduce Orr being cleansed in an instanced zone, but until then sadly the world has to stay in limbo, at least that zone.

2- If the Elder Dragons cannot be killed/defeated permanently then Anet is shooting itself in the foot because then we have 5 other Dragons that won’t be defeated and that would end with GW2 being about running away and hiding from the Armageddon caused by the Elder Dragons other than stopping the Armageddon.

3- Abaddon giving magic to Tyrians is a huge misconception that has been proven false by many on these forums. What Abaddon did was not give magic to the Tyrians but he released it from the ‘Bloodstone’ (which I believe was created originally by the Seers iirc). What this did was let Magic be used more freely by everyone in larger quanties which led to problems and the human race almost becoming extinct. This led to King Dorric pleading the gods to take that gift back (limit the usage of magic to how it was before). This caused the struggle between Abaddon and the rest of the gods. The gods put the magic back into the ‘Bloodstone’ and sealed it using King Doric’s blood which is how it got the name Bloodstone in the first place. It was then divided into 4 parts and a 5th keystone part to make sure that no one would be able to put it back together easily and bestowing the increased usage of magic back to Tyria as a form of protection.

4- As far as we know, with the help of Glint, the races were hidden from the dragons. Whether it was underground or not we do not know exactly (unless I’m missing something stated). Also, the Mursaats betrayed the other races and found a way to phase out of the world and save themselves.

5- The records in game are actually contradicting to that prior note that Glint hid the races from the dragons so they survived. The dwarven legends (which I guess are from the Tome of Rubicon which is stated that it might not be reliable due to rewritten over the ages) and the Jotun Stelae which afaik aren’t that accurate, state like you quoted that they battled and survived the dragons. It is also known that the Seers used a magic ritual to release Glint from Kralkatorric’s corruption which afterwards she helped hide them from the Elder Dragon’s so they could survive. Glint was then punished for her betrayal before GW2 started (as seen in the Edge of Destiny Novel)

6- Battling and Surviving could very well mean that they fought the Elder Dragon minions and then survived by Glint hiding them. It does not necessarily mean that they tried to kill the Elder Dragons and failed because the Elder Dragon’s cannot be killed.

Xukavi.4320:

1- I am aware that it may not me changed any time soon. What I meant was that, if Zhaitan had DIED, the corruption could possibly dissapear altogetehr and Risen would fall as well

2- This is not true. There’s far more to it than just being able to KILL Dragons, and there’s stuff that could make it much more interesting. Why not a ritual? Seal them away, there’s many possibilities here and I’m sure ANet will try to explore the best one, and it won’t be killing

3- Actually, the Bloodstones were created by the Gods because of what Abaddon did. Abaddon was sealed in his territory of teh Underworld, and then came Kormir in his place. The Bloodstones were created to seal the “excessive” magic running around thanks to Abaddon. If my memory serves me right, it was because of this the Guild Wars started

4- That’s what I said, so we agree, however I did state I wasn’t sure about the ritual, as I am not sure they just “hid”, although it is possible.

5- True, and this poses a question that many otehrs before have thought of. If the Seers had the power to undo Kralkatorrik’s power over Glint, maybe it could be used on Elder Dragons? Maybe at a larger scale of power of course

6- I didn’t state they failed, and I did not discredit that fact that Glint didn’t hide them, that is true after all. I stated only that, if the Elder Dragons are so crucial to Tyria’s balance in magic, then it wouldn’t even be wise to kill them, and as I said before, I am pretty sure I heard on an interview they cannot be killed, precisely because it would be a very unwise decision for Tyria’s ecosystem.

Also I think I was misinterpreted, my bad.
When I said they can’t be killed, it is because the consequences of such actions would be far more dire than just sealing them away or putting them to sleep. Sure they’ll wake up again, but races would have plenty of time to research and even pass on whatever they used to put them to sleep until they woke up again.
I do not think that the races, knowing of how essential they are to balance of life and magic in Tyria(Since in Tyria, Magic and Life are tied, without one possibly the other is not possible either) would even consider killing the Dragons.

Note: I couldn’t quote because the full message exceeded the 5001 character limit

1- I’m just saying that we can’t use the whole "we haven’t seen Orr fully healed as an argument that Zhaitan wasn’t killed. I wouldn’t mind if they pulled that on us, but i would very much rather have them go to a new dragon/threat.

2- I think the best course of action (if dragons mean balance and the world would end without them) is for them to have us find out someway (maybe the end of S1 Living Story we conclude that leylines are tied to dragons and killing them would destroy balance.

3- http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone
We found out in the Arah explore-able dungeon that it was the Seers that originally created it.

4- Yes, we agree. Though I remember someone on the lore forums did dig up and find out that Glint was freed by the Seers in a ritual. It’s possible that it was stated in the Edge of Destiny novel.

5- I don’t think that freeing something from the dragon corruption is the same as removing corruption from the dragon. From what I understand, the dragon is the source of corruption so that would need a whole different thing.

6- Was that interview before or after release. Also from what’s said about the bloodstone, the seers created it to seal magic that wasn’t corrupted by the dragons. What I understand from this is that Elder Dragons technically shouldn’t be that balance in the world if they corrupt it.

Just to make you guys remember the LS devs did say that teq. getting stronger is a big part of the LS so the OP could be right about zhaitan not being dead… Kinda makes sense why Teq is stronger then before…. on a side note what if teq is really zhaitan :P… JK

glint was released from corruptive control by ‘forgotten’
anyway, i simply refuse to believe that elder dragons are unkillable or that sylvari are un-corruptable.. once zhaitan was ‘defeated’ {dead or otherwise} a large amount of magic was released back into tyria and corrupted creatures much like the dragons themselves absorb Ambient energies.. therefore tequatl may have been temporarily strengthened in the process.. similarly orr itself Did have a cleansing ritual performed but it may take some time to heal and also the remaining undead may very well ‘die’ off or need to be manually vanquished
personally, i haven’t completed personal story but have looked up the final encounter and there was room for improvement.. i’m surprised they allowed an elder dragon to even be defeated.. i wouldn’t mind seeing some re-incarnation of zhaitan

Right, it was the forgotten. Sorry I keep forgetting about them, no pun intended. Anyways I do think that Zhaitan being defeated would release the consumed magic onto the world which would lead to Teq. technically getting stronger.

If we die, we go to the mists. When other creatures die, what happens to them? Do they return to the mists like we do in one form or the other, or do they return to the aether of the world (aside from rotting and decaying ofcourse)? What if the dragons go to the mists as well? Dundunduuun… What happens to the aether of the dragons if they die? Kormir took over Abaddon’s power, what about dragons, could one do something similar? Chaotic as it may seem, I think magic still follows certain laws of nature, maybe such as magical energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but can change form or be diverted to another dimension (I’m making this up haha, but still..).

well, owl spirit was defeated by jormag and its conscious state of being has yet to reemerge in the mists or otherwise