Guild Wars 2

cesmode.4257:

@Galen Grey(I dont want to quote):

Whether or not it is a holy grail of MMOs remains to be seen. You sound like an arenanet employee posting on his personal account because that is exactly what they say.

Anyways, sure lots of content is good. GOOD content is good. Since living story has been introduced you can’t say that the story line and the combat-esq content is better than a well thought out, tested, PTR tested expansion/3-6 month content patch. How was flame and frost or skypirates better than a 3-6 month content patch where you get an entire new zone, new mobs, new dallies for new rewards, new raid, maybe a new dungeons, class adjustments..all in one patch. Sure, not everyone wants raids but the point is the amount and quality of things you get when you actually have time to develop them is far greater than what we are being fed.

For me, there is no comparison between even Queen’s Jubilee vs what Blizzard has been doing with WoW this most recent expansion. I think MoP is the most controversial expansion to date with many people hating it and the changes coming to late, but they’ve added new zones and gaming systems/features/activities at a 3-6 month rate..and its quality. Zerging your tail off in the gauntlet is…quality?

I wish people would sit down and really compare line for line that of a 3-6 month content patch vs a 2week LS patch.

But WoW’s most recent expansion is a paid for game. not a free content patch. The question is how much new content has WoW put into that patch SINCE the new expansion, because that’s what you’d have to compare it to.

@cesmode

I didnt count SAB as part of the zone list, there is a reason why I said 2 worlds with 6 zones in SAB and then had a seperate listing with 2x zones for real zones (which are southsun and Labyrinthine Cliffs)

4x dungeons = Molten Facility, Aetherblade Retreat, Canach / subdirector null dungeon (granted its a bad dungeon but a dungeon none the less) and the Scarlet Playhouse

As for other comments, some indicate that you dislike the content which is fair enough. Using the same argument though if you dont like dungeons and group content you got nothing in the last 6 months in WoW.

The gating argument I completely disagree with, fractals (which arent counted in there because they were released before the last 6 months) No fractal is gated behind content. High difficulty levels are gated behind content, its possible to do all fractals as many times you want and get rewarded without even having exotics if you so choose.

And your other major comment is the content temporary nature. Are the updates dungeons / scenarios / raids released by WoW permenant content? because while sure physically they remain in the game forever, in practical terms they’re only available to you only while you’re within their level bracket / working towards that gear tier. In order for a max level player to play a dungeon released during the time of cataclysm they have to create a new alt and level him/her up and then get a limited amount of runs until again its outleveled. Its not something thats feasable. In all other MMOs new content might stay permanently in game but you still only have access to it for a temporary time frame so I ask is that really that different?

Mathias.9657:

I think the fact that a major dungeon designer and GW1 enthusiast gets laid off because he didn’t want his final dungeon to be temporary content speaks for itself.

And that’s not all the devs that have left either, but I won’t go too much into it, the information is there, and it speaks volumes about ANet right now.

They don’t even listen to their own employee’s, doesn’t get much worse than that.

Ohh please thats not what happened. We dont even know if he was laid off or decided to leave himself. in any case all he said was that he wished his last work would be something that remained permanently which makes sense everyone wants stuff we do especially your last bit of work on a project to last forever. In no way shape or form did he say he left or was fired because he wanted his dungeon to be permanent.

minbariguy.7504:

DireSwift.9083:

Oh, I quit reading this kitten thread after the 50th “Kitten”….my kitten lord what an annoying word that everyone uses for everything around here.

LOL, DireSwift, nobody really uses the word “kitten”. It’s the forum software that censors swear words and plugs the word “kitten” in to replace the bad word. But don’t worry, you’re not the first person to be completely bewildered by the prevalence of kittens around here! :-)

I was never censored, I use the word kitten on purpose :|

Galen Grey.4709:

Mathias.9657:

I think the fact that a major dungeon designer and GW1 enthusiast gets laid off because he didn’t want his final dungeon to be temporary content speaks for itself.

And that’s not all the devs that have left either, but I won’t go too much into it, the information is there, and it speaks volumes about ANet right now.

They don’t even listen to their own employee’s, doesn’t get much worse than that.

Ohh please thats not what happened. We dont even know if he was laid off or decided to leave himself. in any case all he said was that he wished his last work would be something that remained permanently which makes sense everyone wants stuff we do especially your last bit of work on a project to last forever. In no way shape or form did he say he left or was fired because he wanted his dungeon to be permanent.

I’m pretty sure was laid off, just look at his facebook or the twitter post.

Quite the sad story tbh.

Mathias.9657:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mathias.9657:

I think the fact that a major dungeon designer and GW1 enthusiast gets laid off because he didn’t want his final dungeon to be temporary content speaks for itself.

And that’s not all the devs that have left either, but I won’t go too much into it, the information is there, and it speaks volumes about ANet right now.

They don’t even listen to their own employee’s, doesn’t get much worse than that.

Ohh please thats not what happened. We dont even know if he was laid off or decided to leave himself. in any case all he said was that he wished his last work would be something that remained permanently which makes sense everyone wants stuff we do especially your last bit of work on a project to last forever. In no way shape or form did he say he left or was fired because he wanted his dungeon to be permanent.

I’m pretty sure was laid off, just look at his facebook or the twitter post.

Quite the sad story tbh.

You know what’s said to me? Someone posts something on his facebook page, and everyone believes it, with no verification whatsoever.

I once fired a cashier for stealing. She told everyone she was fired for completely different reasons. People always try to put stuff in the best light but no one knows the real story. Not unless they were there.

You dislike Anet so much, you’re willing to believe a complete stranger. And you know, it’s possible he’s telling the truth. It’s also possible he’s bending the truth to make himself look better, which is what most people do.

Who cares Vayne, get off my weeny.

Mathias.9657:

Who cares Vayne, get off my weeny.

I’m not quite sure how to respond to this post. I’m pretty sure though, I’m not breaking any rules by pointing out the logical flaws in some of your reasoning.

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

Who cares Vayne, get off my weeny.

I’m not quite sure how to respond to this post. I’m pretty sure though, I’m not breaking any rules by pointing out the logical flaws in some of your reasoning.

I’m not quite sure how to respond to this post. I’m pretty sure though, I don’t care.

darkace.8925:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

ANet is running a fair risk with the LS, they wouldn’t adapt it if it wasn’t directly related to lower sales.

I pains me to say this, but I hope it blows up in their face. If the quality of content we’re getting in the Living Story is the future of this game, I’d rather fail spectacularly. I’m hoping the players will send ArenaNet the clear message that quality, not quantity, is what matters when it comes to content. But as of now I don’t think enough players share my opinion on the Living Story. So I have to bide my time and hope that enough players jump ship to the AAA MMOs on the docket for next year so that change can be effected.

I’m with you (even if I enjoyed part of that content).
Mainly because players that enjoy what this game seems to want to became will be probably pretty satisfied by future games. You are wise.

Every programmer, from every company, should be unemployed and have to find a new job if he takes part in the construction of a drug dealer machine that besots players, or better, that besots people.

This would be a fair dream on so many levels, and would lend to a world of mmorpg played for the fun without any psychological manipulation and cognitive dissonance.

Btw I think ANet guys didn’t throw into the abyss all their healthy values, time will tell us if they are worthy of our support. I wish a prosperous future for this company, but just if they return to treat people as rational human beings. Treating people like stupid makes people stupid (it’s called pygmalion effect). And I don’t know if a train of dumb people would be the ideal community for the growth of this game.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not about what’s gone, it’s about what’s coming

People feel the impact of missing out (loss) about twice as much compared to playing current content (a gain).

While I agree with you, people are hard wired to think more about what they missed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

SoPP.7034:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not about what’s gone, it’s about what’s coming

People feel the impact of missing out (loss) about twice as much compared to playing current content (a gain).

While I agree with you, people are hard wired to think more about what they missed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

I do know about loss aversion, but this is a slightly different situation than the one studied in most loss aversion studies because the losses there are very clear cut. Loss five dollars or gain five dollars. Here it’s very different.

For one thing, in many cases, it’s the perception of loss rather than loss itself here. I mean if I missed the Queen’s Gauntlet I wouldn’t have considered it a loss, since I didn’t like it that much in the first place. If someone missed banging signs into the ground at the beginning of flame and frost…do they really consider that a loss. The whole situation is different, because people have to be following the game relatively closely to even know that they missed.

Most players, probably, log in and play and what’s going on is going on. Only a small percentage of players really follow the game (in my opinion).

Aaaand this is just what I was talking about.
Glad to see another thread killed like this.
ANet please continue to hide your flaws under the carpet, it will do you good.

Devata.6589:

GW2 is now F2P and there are still some P2P games but not many and there are many F2P games.

Guild Wars 2 is not F2P and such a claim is ludicrous. It is rather simply and explicitly B2P.

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

Also, I may’ve been a bit presumptuous in my previous post: I’m not saying make “all content soloable”, rather that if the concern is having content that can’t be experienced due to having not enough people, make it so it doesn’t need that many people.

I can understand having “too spread out” of a playerbase due to a large gameworld, but I think this is where the LFG tool can save the day.

Its definitely possible to get around the requirement of having a set number of players to play content. Its entirely possible to have every bit of content that scales down to 1, not denying that. But would it be healthy for an MMO? If you want to run a dungeon would you rather wait a few minutes to set up a group that might be bad at playing the game having you possibly take a lot longer then required or even worst have a couple of players rage quit forcing you spend more time rather then just go do it on your own with a guaranteed easy run and certain success?

I think you may be underestimating how many people play an MMO for that “massively multiplayer” part of it.

I would honestly love to agree with you, even pray to the MMO gods if need be but alas thats not how most players act.

When the game launched and even today to a degree people complained about zergs and how they made the game to easy. They had an easy solution to that, move away from the zerg for 5 seconds and play solo or with a smaller group. Entirely doable and I know except for a very few expections thats how I always played the game yet players persisted in zerging and complain how that was not fun. Why did they do it? fast leveling and quicker rewards.

dailies… people complain they need to spend 30 mins per day grinding the daily before they can start having fun. Irony is in nearly all cases whatever they’re going to do for fun will get the daily finished or just leave a few minutes of play to get it done but they have to fix it first cause its the quickest way to get the reward which is more important then the fun.

Crafting, be it ascended weapon, legendary whatever. Each of these is designed to use stuff from nearly everywhere in the game. Today you feel like doing events in lornar’s pass? great you’re going to advance towards your goal and you’re going to be doing what you enjoy. Do people do that? no they have to grind the required materials in sequence to get the reward quickly. If you need another say 15 dungeon runs there is no way most people are going to wait until they feel like running those 15 dungeons or join their friends now and again and run those dungeons organically. no they will start and do dungeon after dungeon until they get all 15 done. Most of them will not even alternate content to get a break from the routine. Why? because again its the path that offers the least resistance to your reward.

Personally I think the game would have gone in a more favorable direction had people gone for fun rather then the path of least resistance. If a lot of players did events which they found fun at max level rather then farm events in Orr which they hated but was more profitable we’d have more updates that included new DE then more content that provides profitable rewards cycling in different areas in order to move population around the game rather then have it segregated in one spot.

May be wrong but unfortunately I dont think I am.

Well, based on what? Based on what people are saying here? Forums are always a very tiny representation of the playerbase. I know that rewards are important for a lot of players, but I don’t think that’s why people make and play games that are massively multiplayer.

Hawkian.6580:

Devata.6589:

GW2 is now F2P and there are still some P2P games but not many and there are many F2P games.

Guild Wars 2 is not F2P and such a claim is ludicrous. It is rather simply and explicitly B2P.

I personally consider B2P to be a subset of the F2P genre.

I mean a lot of F2P games like Lotro, EQ2, Rift sell expansions but they’re still consider F2P. The only difference between them and B2P is that you also have to buy the original release. Thing is F2P as the name implies means you dont have to spend money in order to play and that generally does include buying the content itself as the example above show.

Of course there is a distinction and a small barrier of entry but b2p appeals more to people who are into F2P then those who want P2P.

Smith.1826:

I think you may be underestimating how many people play an MMO for that “massively multiplayer” part of it.

Thats a different subject but somehow I dont think its that small. In all games you see people asking for server merges when player numbers start to dwindle. Here you can see several complaints on mid level zones lacking decent player numbers. Thing is MMOs arent that great if you remove the multiplayer aspect of them.

Smith.1826:

Well, based on what? Based on what people are saying here? Forums are always a very tiny representation of the playerbase. I know that rewards are important for a lot of players, but I don’t think that’s why people make and play games that are massively multiplayer.

No, not based on what people say, based on experiance. We’ve all been in a zerg one time or another, even I who tried to avoid them have been in a zerg because it was unavoidable (you cannot avoid a zerg for a world boss for example, or meta events etc..) So we all know that zerg makes the game trivial. People joke that in zergs you start your auto attack and go make a sandwich and while perhaps not really that bad its not that far from the truth either. Playing in a zerg is simply boring, thats an undeniable fact everyone knows from personal experience. yet when zergs are entirely avoidable like in champion trains, when at launch we were still leveling up and thus everyone concentrated in the same zones, during the invasion events, etc.. there were still huge zergs and not just that you could/can see in zone chat people asking where they can find the zerg so they can join up. Post on the forum or not I dont imagine any of these join these zergs because thats a fun way to play the game rather seems to me they do that cause its profitable.

If you dont like the living story, why not start thinking about what could be done to change it? The devs already said enough to answer 90% of the posts in this and other similar threads… If you want it changed, come up with something new, with solutions…

That being said,
In my opinion, the living story is what makes this game unique, and what makes it stand out from the crowd of mmos atm. Yes it might have its flaws, but its for sure a positive feature.
I do understand however the negative side of this concept, the missing out on past events because you did not have a chance to play at that time.
Here are my suggestions to what could maybe be done to counter that aspect:

There should be a way to get the rewards of LS content after it is removed, and that could be either by saying the content will return seasonally (like halloween, SAB etc), or by giving players access to previous content in some way.
This second must be a pain even to imagine, my first thought would b to have a “time machine” ingame that would let players choose a period of time for them to play, and programatically that might not be so hard to do, but, on the other hand, you would be left playing with a dead world (im imagining the scarlet invasions for example), so that definitelly would not work for every type of content, but it could be a start point…

I know a lot of people that took breaks from the game, came back, saw what they had missed and left for good, people that started and were introduced to the temp patches and didn’t like them and quit right then and there. It upsets me a lot because I spoke out against the Living Story idea from the beginning, I wanted expansions, new areas, new dungeons, Permanent New Content that they could really take time to test that could be added every 3-6 months, but this stuff that they put in is IMHO for the weak minded, for people that have no skills at all in any game, they want easy and fast rewards, and this is what they are getting.

Rama.6439:

I know a lot of people that took breaks from the game, came back, saw what they had missed and left for good, people that started and were introduced to the temp patches and didn’t like them and quit right then and there. It upsets me a lot because I spoke out against the Living Story idea from the beginning, I wanted expansions, new areas, new dungeons, Permanent New Content that they could really take time to test that could be added every 3-6 months, but this stuff that they put in is IMHO for the weak minded, for people that have no skills at all in any game, they want easy and fast rewards, and this is what they are getting.

Ohh come on, was the queen’s gauntlet easy content? or the new Tequalt? didnt try the dungeon yet but there are already some threads calling for nerfs so I dont think its easy either.

Difficulty of content has nothing to do with the delivery method. The same thing they do in an expansion they can do in the LS, they did most easy content because they felt thats what most people wanted, based on feedback thats changing a little luckly but if they had gone with the expansion its very likely it would have taken like a year, still got easy content because thats what they felt people wanted and we’d need to wait another year so they react to feed back and do more challenging stuff.

I’m still phoning it in barely because I just want to keep up with the lore and universe, but I’m barely there. All my friends have quit and specifically because content was being taken away before they even got a shot at it because they were too busy with rl/job/gf etc or that it was insubstantial to be worth bothering with anyway.

For me even though it was fairly recent I completely forgot what new recipes and crafting has been added and skipped SAB (twice now) and Tequatl at release I knew Tequatl was permanent (no rush) and that SAB will be back or become permanent eventually.

This was all fine and good in the Everquest era when we didn’t have other MMO’s to play and as far as games go.. hardcore players were generally on the same games (quake, unreal 2k4, EQ) etc and could build substantial critical mass around each game and needed such an update schedule to keep things fresh. Nowadays there are many more things demanding our attention, other games, more platforms, mobile etc and many high school and college age gamers have now grown up with families and responsibilities so we have another mismatch.

The living story was a great achievement. GW2 has actually achieved the impossible holy grail, they are creating content faster than players can chew through it. No other MMO has done this to date and the and should be in the Guinness Book of Records for it. However.. players are also not necessarily as dedicated or demanding as they used to be in the MMO 1.0 era so this is easier than it was back then.

In any case.. pulling back, adding permanent content and going bigger, deeper expansions to give people a break and also concentrate their attentions to become reinvested in the game again after said break/expansion would work a lot better in the today’s world.

There just simply isn’t enough need/demand for constant new shinies anymore or for MMO’s to be a life replacement for people like there used to be

Vayne.8563:

…
People stop playing…how many people? I’m pretty sure Anet has numbers (in fact I know they have, I talked to a dev in game recently and unless he was lying, they have numbers).

Concurrency is up. More players are returning. Some people will leave, but name an MMO that never loses anyone.
…

I’m taking a break now (or quitting, I dunno). Finished a second legendary (howler), gave it away to a friend (looks great, btw), then gave away all my extra exotics to various guilds (50 or so).

I played a lot recently; but it left me feeling thoroughly burned out. And yes, the problem is the way Living Story and other time-limited content is offered (APs, laurels, daily limits on charged quartz, per-map T6 harvesting limits, etc).

So — for a while, I was getting almost all the APs — most dailies (~9-14 points) and almost all the LS ones. (I’m still somewhere in the top 1000 for APs in NA still, though falling quickly now since I stopped playing. I would have left at 11500 if the PvP award change hadn’t messed up my score.) I was playing a lot … but at some point it stopped being fun. (For a while, it was fun to optimize the grind. But a faster grind is still a grind.)

As well — when you’re trying to finish LS achievements before the artificial deadline, it’s infuriating when bugs cause you to lose time. If you’re just doing the content for fun, the bugs matter less — you can always come back later. But when you’re trying to hit a deadline …

I started playing GuildWars1 (6 years ago) in part because it was advertised as anti-grind. GW2 doesn’t feel that way — the grind is optional, but it’s still encouraged in many ways. That’s just not what I want in a game.

Making LS achievements not time limited would have gone a ways towards eliminating perceived pressure. Allowing dailies to stack somewhat (as Zaishen Quests did — up to 3 — in GW1) would also have helped. But nothing I see makes me think that this goal (reducing pressure on players to play now, and every day) matches the current game designers’ philosophies.

Encouraging players to play as much as possible thorugh time limited rewards will drive up participation — for a time. But it will also lead to burn out and may drive some people away. I’m in the latter boat right now.

I wouldn’t be surprised if metrics show more concurrency — the psychological tools the game designers are using are effective on a large scale. But that doesn’t mean that I like their choices, and I’m perfectly willing to walk away (I spent a lot of time and money, but that was because it was fun; if it’s not fun, it’s time to stop).

linuxotaku.4731

I wouldn’t be surprised if metrics show more concurrency — the psychological tools the game designers are using are effective on a large scale. But that doesn’t mean that I like their choices, and I’m perfectly willing to walk away (I spent a lot of time and money, but that was because it was fun; if it’s not fun, it’s time to stop).

This is a very good point. I’m sure that the Living Story has, indeed, caused players to log back in more often, and to log more hours in-game. But what the metrics don’t show is whether the players are doing so happily, or whether they’re doing it in a resentful manner knowing that if they don’t, they’ll miss out on their chance to get unique skins, achievements, titles and items permanently.

In any case, while I still have some objections to the way the Living Story is being implemented (previously functional achievements no longer working, permanent content being discarded in favour of new content), I will say that September and October has been a great improvement over the past few months. SAB is returning content, and Tequatl Rising and Twilight Assault are both new content that has permanent new achievements that are available to players even after the month is over. This ameliorates a lot of my previous concern about players being forced to participate in the Living Story or forever miss out, although I would still like there to be a way for players who missed out on past skins to obtain them again (either they’re all tradable, or preferably, past temporary content can be accessed via a “flashback NPC” that sits in your Home District and allows you to re-do any temporary content in an instance).

I have no issues with content being temporary, sometimes I miss out sometimes I don’t, the only people that get bent out of shape about it are completionists.

I read enough of this topic to get the idea of what everyones feelings are, so apologize if I double cover thoughts.

I like the concept behind the living story, however, every story to date doesnt feel like a story, heck it doesnt feel like a fractal even (5% a story, a glimpse).

I dont mind the world evolving at all, it gives us reason to revisit old zones which in turn might help a late bloomer (player) to experience something with others.

The problem with Living Story are obstacles that are self inflicted.

4-5 different teams working on their own ideas of their versions of stories that really dont fit in with current affairs. (Orr, Dragons, Etc).

I may play Guild Wars 2, but its surely not my true love (favorite mmo). When we state impactful, we arent asking for a choice like vote for x and get y. We are saying that at the end of our personal story……. spoiler incoming look away.

When we take out Zhaitain, as heard on Tarnished Coast mumble, did any body check to make sure hes dead? Arent we going to look?

And further with my own point, “If Zhaitain fell, is the re strengthening of Tequatl the reason and also the reason why the risen arent thinning out?”. Zhaitain cant me dead.

And second question.

Which Dragon does Scarlet work for? Could it be she works for Zhaitain, which doesn’t make any sense considering her hench men are pirates and mechanical creatures from my characters alter universe.

There is way to much skipping around aimlessly that makes this not really story like indeed None of it for new players or even vets like myself can truly geek over this.

Amlin.6041:

I have no issues with content being temporary, sometimes I miss out sometimes I don’t, the only people that get bent out of shape about it are completionists.

and those that simply want to enjoy all the stories that have ben made so far but oh wait THEY CAN’T.

Zoltreez.6435:

Amlin.6041:

I have no issues with content being temporary, sometimes I miss out sometimes I don’t, the only people that get bent out of shape about it are completionists.

and those that simply want to enjoy all the stories that have ben made so far but oh wait THEY CAN’T.

Man I see you everywhere now Zoltreez lol

It comes down to a glass half full or a glass half empty perspective. You could look at LS in terms of all the great content that you are now unable to experience, or you could look at LS in terms of all the great content that will come in the future.

If we assume GW2 will have any kind of longevity, content from Y1 will be such a drop in the hat compared to the entirety of content that will be released over its life. If you’ve missed some LS content, deal with it, move on, and enjoy the content to come. You don’t have to have every single skin that’s ever been released.

Draknar.5748:

Zoltreez.6435:

Amlin.6041:

I have no issues with content being temporary, sometimes I miss out sometimes I don’t, the only people that get bent out of shape about it are completionists.

and those that simply want to enjoy all the stories that have ben made so far but oh wait THEY CAN’T.

Man I see you everywhere now Zoltreez lol

It comes down to a glass half full or a glass half empty perspective. You could look at LS in terms of all the great content that you are now unable to experience, or you could look at LS in terms of all the great content that will come in the future.

If we assume GW2 will have any kind of longevity, content from Y1 will be such a drop in the hat compared to the entirety of content that will be released over its life. If you’ve missed some LS content, deal with it, move on, and enjoy the content to come. You don’t have to have every single skin that’s ever been released.

I was basically here the whole day on the forums played maybe a few hours ?
I always end up on the forums in the game.

btw I DONT care about those skins .
I just want to go through those stories play them trough. its just that lots of people never gonna see some stories bicous of temp content -.- and constantly thinking about how Anet is throwing money out of the window with this.

there are so many ways to make them replayable somehow with some basic rewards.

this is a realy nice game
with good community compared to other mmos
nice combat
good feel
but when im playing the only thing I can think of are the missed out stories and that this game is not going anywhere with Temp content.

you can be sure if they would implement some way to replay this you barely would see me on the forums.

I have been playing Guild Wars since GW1 around 7 years of loyalty. I loved GW2 it had a fantastic story, depth, great mechanics, emotional investment in characters, high quality and more. It truly was revolutionary.

However Living story has completely broken this game for me. At first I played along and marginally didn’t mind it. It was not as much fun as the main campaign by any means, It lacked any depth, the story telling was virtually non existent and it lacked any sense of urgency or drive that the main campaign had. It was a case of rolling from one grind to the next, time gated grind and mindless nonsense. The content is superficial and meaningless and often a detriment to the game itself.

I did all the Living Story events up to Queens Jubilee (this does not mean I did every achievement I missed many out) and finally found that i was so fed up and burn’t out with the break neck speed and pace they want to keep launching this vapid content at me that i stopped playing Guild Wars 2 altogether.

I agree with the basic principle of Living Story but see no reason why actually releasing content once a month and making it more substantial and with better story and real content is a problem. People say that Anet do tell story, they have it on twitter or other feeds and mediums. To that I will say one thing: When you watch a film does the film make you go read an article online to follow it? When you read a book does it tell you to go watch a film to pick up plot and story that book neglected to tell you? No… this method used by Arenanet is simply an escape goat for poor execution of their story telling. A cheap short cut to cover up a large failing on their part. Its as if Anet has forgotten its in the business of enthralling us in a story “their story”.

I defy anybody to sit down and compare Living World content & Core Campaign content and tell me they are of equal quality, enjoyment & satisfaction .

I have tried many times since taking my break to re-engage with a game I loved and held as the my number 1 MMO of all time. Everytime I login I cannot get back into the game the living story the way it is has made it impossible for me to rejoin.

I look at my friends lists and the guild lists for the 2 guilds I am part of and they are all empty. Not a single log on from anybody i used to know. My friends list were ppl I knew from many years of playing GW1 but they too no longer log on for GW2 due to complaints with Living Story.

Anyway due to the direction of this game I have ear marked 2 other MMO’s to play Its sad to say but I really don’t feel the love for this game like I used to. It had a fantastic start but now it just seems that the developers themselves just do not care and half hearted is all we can expect from now on in the future.

Yes its nice to have high figures now because your pulling new ppl in with your living story promises. But long term do you really think you can sustain an MMO on new players alone? Does creating and sustaining loyalty not matter anymore? Anet you set the bar for standard in all MMO’s when you launched GW2 and made sure we all knew about your achievement to our joy. So I have to ask…why & how can you be happy to deliver well below it yourself now?

Think you all cheering for LS need to go google what rpg stands for. Then try to remember wtf your “personal” story was about. And then make a simple math based conclusion based on those 2 factors. If you can’t recall what that story was about… it was probably filtered out by your brain like spam.
For me… this game isn’t rpg. It has some of the most forgettable mediocre story line I’ve seen in a long long time, even when compared for the asian “cashcowFREE2INSTALL” scheme. It has no point, no progression, no development and where there is a “goal” so to speak it never moves anywhere. Living story is just the most obvious example of what is wrong with this game and why its not an rpg in any way. Holding entire world on less then a dozen mediocre characters with utter lack of personality? Really?
Why is the enirety of story boxed in wikis instead of actual game? Why are the only things that made it in are bits and scraps?
Pretending your game is the hot kitten esport doesn’t make it one. There are flash games on my phone with more balanced and diverse pvp. And yet it all gets balanced by it… marvelous. Why use logic…
Its like anything that makes an rpg … well rpg. Was flushed down the toilet and replaced with “WE ARE DIFFERENT” which in game mechanics translates to zerg then dps or gtfo. With horrid class balance if you can even call it that. Instead of releasing pointless crap and devoting all resources to it… maybe instead of 1 guy who obviously doesn’t give a kitten… have a team do bug fixes. There are bugs that’s been here since beta.
It is suppose to be an rpg… so how about that role playing? Is my sole role in this game to be the next winner for best china farmer of 2014?

I was a massive fan of this game and still love the core game.

Living Story DID drive me from the game after nearly a year. I was a solid paying customer paying much more that $15/month, as well, so presumably I was one of those customers they wanted to keep.

The turn off was two fold. 1.) The massive waste of resources on vapid, temporary content. 2.) The way Living Story drove all my friends from the game long before I gave up on it myself.

Pre-2013 Arenanet created the best at release MMO in the history of the genre. 2013 Arenanet failed to build on that foundation, blew a ton of potential and has diminished the game, with little hope in sight for a turn around.

Now, as a fan who has taken a break from the game and looks in occasionally to see if there is anything worth returning to, I see that my suspicions are true: Living Story provides zero incentive for players who left to return and, in fact, de-incentivizes them from wanting to return.

There is nothing worse that some one who makes a big mistake but can’t admit they were wrong and correct that mistake. Living Story has been the biggest mistake Arenanet could ever have made with the ongoing development of this game, but they just can’t admit the mistake and work on a more viable, more efficient and more appealing alternative.

As someone who has been playing MMOs for about 14 years, I have to tell you that GW2 is probably my biggest disappointment ever, because it promised so much, delivered on that promise on launch, then threw it all away as the studio, sans some very key people, started to flounder.

It’s so rare to see an MMO nearly as good as GW2 was at launch. They overcame the greatest hurdle and produced an incredible game. To come so close to “The Game” many have been waiting for for a decade or more, only to squander it, is just plain sad.

At this point, I guess my hopes are really pinned on a full expansion. Living story offers nothing worth returning for for many of us who have left. I can only hope that their talk of no expansion in the works this past year has just been cover and not reality, as a full expansion is desperately needed if the game has any chance of recovering from the “Wasted Year”.

100% agree with Fiontar

The people I know left because they were looking for Guildwars that was similar or an update to Guildwars as indicated by the “2” but instead found themselves playing a game that was two different from the original to be enjoyable for them. The living world though for me does make the game feel more alive than the previous guildwars where content felt stagnent because it was but “events” reminded you that the game was still progressing in some form. Without the “living world” I couldn’t see the game feeling stagnant like the first.

My only complaint about the living world is how your character is effected personally by it and theyr’e not. Nothing you do in the game really matters or changes anything. It’s almost like the movie “Ground Hog Day”. You just keep repeating your actions over and over again even if you’ve done it before a million times. Nothing ever changes except a heart being filled in. That is something I wish could be improved somehow so playing the game didn’t feel so pointless. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it be nice if after you accomplished something there be some progress in the world shown. I guess that’s something that haunts every MMO, the lack of change to the world after you’ve completed an event.

Post after post on these forums from people who were driven away from the game by Living Story, and still no response from ANet in this thread, or any other.

Seems to me that if they had the metrics to prove that Living Story is such a smashing success, they would have spoken up about them by now in order to prove it.

The fact that they don’t seem to have anything to say about it suggests to me that they are perfectly aware that player reaction is mostly negative, but they don’t want to acknowledge it.

At least blizzard when they were still alive and not whoring for some nameless guy in a suit. Plainly admitted that their biggest regret was introduction of arena. Don’t recall exact wording but it boiled down to… It was never meant to be e-sport and it was a mistake to try and change that only to come to a dead end where the only options left were either balance everything to this end and break what made this game great for those who were with us for years or completely scape the concept which was not fesable anymore because taking away gear would just enrage even more people.
Anet and their korean leash holders on the other hand are perfectly fine with the “if we pretend long enough it will be so” game and releasing temporary cash shop junk.
There are devs that can get away with little to no communication like Egosoft. Because they will go out of their way to hold on to their fans. They won’t spoon feed you but the changes people ask (if they have a point) almost always make it in. They will release free xpack just to hold people over until next installment. When people say they hate steams online only drm what does Egosoft do? They GIVE YOU a drm free executable. Effectively stripping protection from their own game just because their fans asked for it. I take pride that I gave probably a few dozen x-superboxes to friends. And I’m also proud that I would not spend another penny on this even if it was the last mmo ever to be made.

Well, opinions vary a lot, that is evident.

During the beta, Anet had surveys that we answered in game about the content. That means the mechanism is there to poll us in game.

You can’t rely on some spreadsheet. My husband’s boss got promoted. His new boss was “Mr. the spreadsheet is the answer to everything”. Suddenly my husband started getting told he wasn’t performing up to what they wanted. He went to his old boss and said, what is going on? His old boss looked at the information and said…oh, I see the problem. He is measuring calls per minute as performance. You are coming in early and working into lunch to cover extra calls to help out. That is decreasing your calls per minute as not as many calls come in before hours and during lunch. Just log in to the phone system exactly at the start of your time and exactly at the end of the time.

He did that, and it solved the “problem”. He helped less people, worked less, and made the spreadsheet boss happy.

Point is, numbers on a spreadsheet are just numbers on a spreadsheet. Interpretation of those numbers may lead to false impressions and conclusions.

Why don’t they do in game surveys again?

Katz.5143:

[SNIP]
During the beta, Anet had surveys that we answered in game about the content. That means the mechanism is there to poll us in game.

[SNIP]
Why don’t they do in game surveys again?

Dear sweet baby Abaddon, yes. Why don’t they, indeed? It gets extremely annoying to be constantly reminded that your feedback on the forums doesn’t matter because “the forums are only a minority” when, as you say, they have the mechanism to poll the majority.

Cash flows… some guy in korea happy. Nothing else matters.

Stooperdale.3560:

It’s all a perception problem. You don’t have to do a single bit of the living story ever. You can always jump into living story if you like what’s currently on offer. It doesn’t matter if you miss some achievements or dailies. This really is a case of looking at a 3/4 full cup and saying it is almost empty.

While that’s true, the problem now is if you have already done the personal story/PvE aspect, and you aren’t a fan of PvP or WvWvW, by not doing the living story, there is nothing else for you to do. Run dungeons? Sure but how many times can you do that before you feel the grind? Same with fractals etc.

The concept of living story or living world as they now call it, was to give more for PvE players to do, the problem is that nothing is permanent, you can’t come back it later as you could in GW1, if you don’t do it right there and then, you miss out.

This game is not player friendly at all.

Now, before anyone attacks me for what I’ve said, please understand that it is my opinion and I am allowed an opinion, even if it is different to yours.

Silent The Gray.3091:

I’m hopeful that Arenanet will listen. Living story was once touted as additions to the main storyline.

Unless I skipped something, I have never, ever seen a Living Story update that had anything to do with the game’s main storyline.

Feel free to correct me with an example.

Yeah, the PACE of Living Story updates needs to change. A new Living Story update once a month, and a non-LS update once a month. THAT would be perfect.

New LS content starts on the 1st of the month, every month. That update is all about LS and you have the whole month to do it.

Middle of the month, we get a second update with all the Quality of Life/Profession Balance/Non-LS updates the teams have been working on.

Repeat each month.

I DO like the temporary nature of some of the content. It adds history to the game. It adds stories and tales and legends to the game in a way that NOTHING else ever can. “You had to BE there!” is a real selling point for me. I missed out on Halloween 2012 and Wintersday 2012, but there are still remnants in the world, and I have been hearing about the Mad King and his Clock Tower ever since I joined gw2 in April. Those stories have made me look forward to Halloween 2013! I’m excited about it!

BECAUSE of the history. Because of the stories other players tell. I think that’s awesome and I want to encourage the devs to keep it up.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats a different subject but somehow I dont think its that small. In all games you see people asking for server merges when player numbers start to dwindle. Here you can see several complaints on mid level zones lacking decent player numbers. Thing is MMOs arent that great if you remove the multiplayer aspect of them.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I’m saying there are plenty of people who, when given the option, would prefer to play with people. This is the biggest reason as to why the concept of an MMO became popular in the first place.

No, not based on what people say, based on experiance.

I don’t think that holds anymore substance. You’re just one person, mind you, and experiences vary.

Post on the forum or not I dont imagine any of these join these zergs because thats a fun way to play the game rather seems to me they do that cause its profitable.

I’d agree. I’d also say it’s an incredibly small part of the game where this is happening, and is far from indicative with what the other thousand/million accounts enjoy.

The problem is that it’s becoming work to keep up with the ls, not fun. My day now goes thus: login, check dailies, map to wayfarer, kill x types, do x events, swim and kill x creatures, map to home instance, harvest crystals, map to wayfarer, create charged quartz, map to lion, make mithrillium and glob. do mystic forge/salvage dailies if needed. Go do ls daily. After all this: i can start playing and having fun. If you then missed x months, you’re wayyy behind in gear and also people are now beginning to judge you based on your achieve points.

long thread I didn’t notice till now, and copying my post on the main forum into here to add to the discussion (but I’m sure it’s been said before plenty of times.)

So I made it a point to skip this previous event and I haven’t logged in for the last two weeks. I have to tell you, it’s killing me.

I know the temporary content will be gone in a few days and I completely skipped it, making me feel like I missed out on things.

We have had the achievements discussion before, but it still weighs heavy on me knowing I have a full tab of living story content that will never be completed.

This is fairly detrimental, to the point that I almost want to continue “not” playing.
I liked the original idea of the game where I could stop and start again and not miss much if anything at all.

Now in the sense of competitiveness, yes sure I missed out on dailies and laurels or behind on crafting components and such for ascend…and that does not bother me “as much” it can be an issue for others.

I think this problem is/has been a growing issue and needs to be considered for the future of GW2.

How do you make continuously developing content, that does not remain and become stagnant, yet does not punish people for not doing it in time?

I understand the developers concerns of keeping things fresh and active, but it is having a fairly strong side effect on some players such as myself.

For now, I went back to GW1 to experience some of that lore that I missed out on back in the day.

Love the game, but have concerns.