Guild Wars 2

Asuras everywhere!! I know asuras use magic to create their technologies, but I know because I read somewhere. In the game it is imperceptible to me, even having learned about eternal alchemy in GW1 (was in a moment that I will never forget). We may even hear some conversations about it, but I can not see magic graphically.

With molten alliance we have portals and some shamans but their technology seems that overshadows it for me.

I cant wait to see a living story about Bloodstones and Mursaat, or maybe even Wizard’s Tower (I just hope that the owner of the tower is not an asura).

Also miss prophecies, ascension, the searing and such things… Hopefully when Brahan back in future stories he may need help of the wolf spirit and could turn into a wolf that is distinct from other norns (pc/npc), much more stylish and kick kitten

I know some of you from living story team have worked with Magic: the gatearing and know how it has more magic compared to GW2. The current Magic tcg trailers reminds me a lot from GW2 cinematics, but with more magic, wizards and various magical creatures, gods (I miss gw human gods) which makes it more attractive.

Tixx was fun, but it was not epic… well Infinirarium was epic… I guess I just do not enjoy so well because is very hot here on Christmas, my computer even shuts down with the heat.

The pitfall is not the asura or their use of technology. It is the way in which the assets and props of asuran technology are used to portray everyday life.

Asura use their “technology” in every part of their life and it helps the race establish a very strong identity.

Compare it to the humans who also wield magic. For the most part, the human world is utterly mundane. Apart from one flying castle, you do not look at human architecture and human tools thinking “wow, those humans sure know their magic”.

Every single asura seems to have his bags full of magical tricks at his lab/home. The average human employs 0% magic in his everyday life. Humans are grounded in a reality that has no magic (a few exceptions exist). Be it norn, sylvari, charr or humans, if they are cold, they build a fire and burn wood. They do not cast a spell on some rock so it gives off heat at camp. Details such as this one make the races “less” magical, than the asura who feature such details.

Magic is not a complete concept in Tyria. On one end of the spectrum, there are illusionary weapons fighting wars, but no illusionary plowshares doing field work. On the other end of the spectrum there are giant flying galleons which are underused, because there is no infrastructure in the world to support them. No sky-anchor in Lion’s Arch where they dock and start from every hour. Asuran technology comes together very well. Compared to that, magic has more of a patchwork feel.

It’s not so much that there needs to be less technology, but more so that other races need the room to provide their solutions.

So far every problem has been solved with asura technology/magic, or a combined effort of all races.

I feel that the asura can take a step back with their technology, and that there needs to be stories about the norn spirits the human gods lending a hand, or Charr technology (which isnt even all that bad, to join in. Or the sylvari’s connection with nature around them.

I found the Pact bases and airships and weapons to all be over the top. Why have swords when we can shoot them with fireworks and giant lasers, right? And where did they build this stuff anyway?

I hope they can come up with a reason to tone it down in the future… some “dragons ate too much magic” reason or something… Or just teach dragons how to step on turrets instead of stand around in front of them.

All this and no comment on the Charr? The Charr wh have giant Warhammer 40K style tanks hanging from the ceiling? The Charr that have their home city built around what appears to be a steampunk version of Disney’s Epcot?

The Asura and their magi-tech I can deal with (especially since for the most part it’s actually more magic-based than tech, really), but the Charr….oy.

@Kajiri: While the Pact stuff may be over the top, I found it far more cringe-inducing when the Risen busted out the zombie anti-aircraft guns.

That was about when I stopped having any hope of the dragons and their minions reaching a sliver of the potential they once had.

It’s 250 years after traditional fantasy GW1, I have no problem with there being technological progression.

Even the tech is still very magic-like (Asura glass, waypoints, phasing platforms – we don’t even have this tech in 2013!)

I agree that some of the Charr tech can be a little anti-immersive (like the chopper) IF you were hoping for a full-on fantasy world, but it is by far not the silliest thing in GW2, so who cares.

I love my fantasy, but I can deal with some steampunky stuff thrown in.

As I haven’t looked at the Zhaitan dungeon, and the only one I’ve seen was a somewhat unsuccesful test (that I had to run around collecting feathers for!), I have to wonder if there’s at some point a Charr with an Austrian-facsimile accent who’s notable line is ‘Get to the choppa!’ ;-)

The Asura are nothing more than steampunk garbage. They were much better in GW1. Now, they just annoy me with all the stupid technology that should never exist in a fantasy themed mmo.

Elbegast.6970:

The Asura are nothing more than steampunk garbage. They were much better in GW1. Now, they just annoy me with all the stupid technology that should never exist in a fantasy themed mmo.

Bwah? How are you getting Steampunk from the Asura?? The Charr, I can see it easily (either steampunk or post-apocalyptic), but the Asura? They’re magitech pushing toward outright sci-fi levels (forcefields, glowy consoles, etc), definitely not steampunk.
Silvari are basic ‘Elven Organic’…and I keep wondering why in the heck humans are still ‘plain medival’, really.

Vulpis.8063:

Elbegast.6970:

The Asura are nothing more than steampunk garbage. They were much better in GW1. Now, they just annoy me with all the stupid technology that should never exist in a fantasy themed mmo.

Bwah? How are you getting Steampunk from the Asura?? The Charr, I can see it easily (either steampunk or post-apocalyptic), but the Asura? They’re magitech pushing toward outright sci-fi levels (forcefields, glowy consoles, etc), definitely not steampunk.
Silvari are basic ‘Elven Organic’…and I keep wondering why in the heck humans are still ‘plain medival’, really.

The Charr are terrible, too, with their gigantic siege motorcycles and their ‘Black Citadel’ that looks like a reject from SWTOR.

The Asura have warpgates and wormhholes and laser cannons.

Why am I building arrow carts, ballistas and trebs in WvW when I should be riding around on a Charr Seige Cycle?

The whole thing is stupid. Magic, Dragons and Swords…..that’s all this game needs. The ‘technology’ just kills the immersion and makes me hate Asura and Charr. Heck, I won’t even help an Asura or Charr player because of it.

It seems as though Anet is firm in their need to characterize GW2 in terms of innovative technology and steam-punk styled fantasy. I’ve gotten sort of used to this theme which prevails pretty much everything they’ve ever done for this game though I hope this isn’t the only thematic solution they will employ in the lore. Honestly, it was the overly practical and technology based weaponry that made Arah Storymode so painfully dull. Yes this is more ‘realistic’ and relevant to our modern conceptions of warfare. But we don’t play video games for realism do we?

Scenarios like the Karka event and the Molten Alliance dungeon do an excellent job of bringing the fun back into the player’s hands. Fighting up close and personal with enemy bosses makes for an exciting time.

I don’t personally have any issue with the asura themselves. They’re very unique and have progressed in a manner which fits well with their inquisitive culture. But the OP’s post reminded me strongly of how much of the Guild Wars lore is based firmly in legend and magic. There is so much material the devs can utilize besides merging machinery with magic. The Dredge and the Flame Legion joining forces works well enough and fits with the status quo of the game, but there are still so many secrets left to be uncovered that haven’t been explained and are still buried within Tyria. (Not to mention in Cantha and Elona as well.)

Technology is a part of Guild Wars and it works just fine. Two or arguably three of the races (if you count the humans) are strongly oriented toward developing technology in ways which are familiar to our own history. However we have yet to learn why the dragons exist in the first place and what the previous ruling races (jotun, grawl etc.) were like before the dragons went to sleep. As the OP mentioned, how many of the stories surrounding the blood stones are true and how does magic relate to the beliefs of the existing races? (Norn spirits of the wild, eternal alchemy, the Human Gods, etc.)

Guild Wars and EOTN set up various storylines relating to magic and it’s connection to the world and implied that we would learn a little bit more about the origins of some of the creatures and powers in Tyria. I’m guessing melding technology gives the illusion of ‘progress’ and moving forward in terms of creating something different from what has been done in GW1, but it becomes pretty empty if the future of Tyria is just some urbanized, industrial environment like every other game out on the market today.

Still it’ll be interesting to see where they take the Molten Alliance storyline.

Zhaneel.9208:

It seems as though Anet is firm in their need to characterize GW2 in terms of innovative technology and steam-punk styled fantasy. I’ve gotten sort of used to this theme which prevails pretty much everything they’ve ever done for this game
…
Yes this is more ‘realistic’ and relevant to our modern conceptions of warfare. But we don’t play video games for realism do we?

+1 for this

I think for a more magic/mysticism feel, GW2 is simply the wrong game. Even GW1 had much more if it, though it wasn’t exactly your average high-fantasy MMO either. This direction is not going to change, and even if it does, it would not change the feel of the game unless they’d redo all the current content.

Why do you criticize absolutely everything all the time?

and especially when it’s better than humans, wham! everyone becomes hateful.
The asura technology makes sense in this world though.

So accept it.

After her would be fun to see more magic in the everyday human, the norn.

I like the overall theme of the story. The sci-fi Asura, the steampunky engineers etc, Roman/Klingon Charr warmachine, organic tree-hugging tree-Elves, barbarians from frozen lands, attempt at the fantasy-of-manners with human royalty (CM), etc etc. A lot of Sci-Fi/Fantasy storytelling were covered and I really appreciate that. Thank you ANet.

Yet there are no grander epic themes aside from the kill-the-dragon.
I haven’t played GW1. In fact, I’ve sworn not to get into MMOs, but then my friends founded a guild and convinced me to give in. From what I’ve heard and read about GW1 and its expansions (gotten quite fond of the lore), it seem that this story is but a pale shadow of it all.
Asura can keep their labs, it’s all very aesthetic and nifty. But as the OP said, magic ‘n’ mysticism, human gods, involvement by some magical forces etc. would make a much more epic plot then a dredge who flies around in a Boba Fett-esque jetpack.
What’s the happening with the Durmand Priory? They would be excellent in such a grand scale story with deep lore. Whereas they did not have the same significant impact on destroying Zhaitan as the other Orders.

It gets grating when people keep staying “steampunk” over and over and over to describe something it doesn’t apply to. Nothing is steampowered and there is no Victorian aesthetic to the game. There is precisely zero “steampunk” in GW2.

That said, generic dragons + elves fantasy has been done to death. Yeah, its popular but its tired and developers shouldn’t be afraid to step up and take things in a different direction.. I’m glad GW2 is franchise that isn’t afraid to go against the regurgitated tropes and cliches of magic/Tolkein/elves/bland.

Louveepine.7630:

Why do you criticize absolutely everything all the time?

and especially when it’s better than humans, wham! everyone becomes hateful.
The asura technology makes sense in this world though.

So accept it.

After her would be fun to see more magic in the everyday human, the norn.

Well, mainly the normal humans. The norns already have their own magic, in the form of their spiritual connections and magic, and their various special abilities to survive the harsh environment of the North. It’s more personal and internal, rather than showy like the Charr and Asura, but it’s there.

Admittedly, I do think that the Charr and Asura are both rather overboard—I’d rather have seen Asura more heavily on the straight magic side of things rather than the techno-mages they ended up as (even though I play one), and the Charr…I still can’t figure out out how they ended up going Mad Max from their more barbarian incarnations—maybe it’s the wasteland thing or something.

panzer.6034:

It gets grating when people keep staying “steampunk” over and over and over to describe something it doesn’t apply to. Nothing is steampowered and there is no Victorian aesthetic to the game. There is precisely zero “steampunk” in GW2.

That said, generic dragons + elves fantasy has been done to death. Yeah, its popular but its tired and developers shouldn’t be afraid to step up and take things in a different direction.. I’m glad GW2 is franchise that isn’t afraid to go against the regurgitated tropes and cliches of magic/Tolkein/elves/bland.

I guess you missed the smokestacks on the Charr Siege Cycles at the Black Citadel. It looks like they were taken straight off a Mississippi River Steamboat. Not to mention the ‘cow catcher’ present on many mobile Charr constructs.

Technology (lasers, tanks, teleport pads, guns, etc.) just kill the immersion for me. I want a return to the “bland” elves/magic/swords D&D cliche. This game is supposed to be a fantasy mmo; not science fiction.

Elbegast.6970:

panzer.6034:

It gets grating when people keep staying “steampunk” over and over and over to describe something it doesn’t apply to. Nothing is steampowered and there is no Victorian aesthetic to the game. There is precisely zero “steampunk” in GW2.

That said, generic dragons + elves fantasy has been done to death. Yeah, its popular but its tired and developers shouldn’t be afraid to step up and take things in a different direction.. I’m glad GW2 is franchise that isn’t afraid to go against the regurgitated tropes and cliches of magic/Tolkein/elves/bland.

I guess you missed the smokestacks on the Charr Siege Cycles at the Black Citadel. It looks like they were taken straight off a Mississippi River Steamboat. Not to mention the ‘cow catcher’ present on many mobile Charr constructs.

Technology (lasers, tanks, teleport pads, guns, etc.) just kill the immersion for me. I want a return to the “bland” elves/magic/swords D&D cliche. This game is supposed to be a fantasy mmo; not science fiction.

word of god is that char tech is more clock-punk then steam-punk.

also, I would like for you to produce a artical/soucrce from anet that medieval stasis is supposed to be true, otherwise its not what it’s supposed to be, but what you want.

I personally will not play Charr or Asura largely because of what is discussed in this thread.

With the weaponry and equipment that is present in Black Citadel, the Charr would be able to storm all over the globe unhindered. Ebonhawke doesn’t even have city gates or walls with defensive weaponry on it. Those Charr track vehicles would be faster that anything short of an Asura gate and unstoppable by almost any means at humanity’s disposal.

It’d be like Ghengis Khan attacking Europe again. Except this time he has Sherman tanks. No contest.

As for the Asura, I see them as a joke race anyway. As jokey an annoying (at least) as T-Bob from MASK. The technology they bring helps to make them even more comedic. Let’s face it… our players do not kill Zhaitan. Weapons that are almost assuredly Asura tech kill him, we just press the relevant key at the relevant time. Anyone could do that.

Elbegast.6970:

I guess you missed the smokestacks on the Charr Siege Cycles at the Black Citadel. It looks like they were taken straight off a Mississippi River Steamboat. Not to mention the ‘cow catcher’ present on many mobile Charr constructs.

I live near a Ford factory. There are similar smoke stacks and they certainly aren’t powered by steam. Besides, seeing a cowcatcher means that the game is somehow saturated with Victorians using steam-machinery, i.e. steampunk?? That’s a ridiculous non sequitur. I realize that its trendy and cool to try to throw “steampunk” around like some kind of perjorative, but it just sounds like grasping at straws when its used so erroneously.

Technology (lasers, tanks, teleport pads, guns, etc.) just kill the immersion for me. I want a return to the “bland” elves/magic/swords D&D cliche. This game is supposed to be a fantasy mmo; not science fiction.

The game obviously isn’t “supposed” to be a bland D&D cliche because they never developed it that way. Fantasy doesn’t have to be arbitrarily limited to elves/magic/swords to be fantasy in first place either.

You’re entitled to like the aesthetics you like in your fantasy, but you can’t claim that what you like is the true “fantasy” and what Anet makes is something else (oh, no machines make it unpure!). Also, if you’re looking for the bland elves/magic/swords D&D cliche, there are a million other franchises out there that cater to you, so please don’t demand for something a bit more unique and slightly outside the box to be dragged down with all the other derivative, forgettable fantasy background noise.

panzer.6034:

It gets grating when people keep staying “steampunk” over and over and over to describe something it doesn’t apply to. Nothing is steampowered and there is no Victorian aesthetic to the game. There is precisely zero “steampunk” in GW2.

That said, generic dragons + elves fantasy has been done to death. Yeah, its popular but its tired and developers shouldn’t be afraid to step up and take things in a different direction.. I’m glad GW2 is franchise that isn’t afraid to go against the regurgitated tropes and cliches of magic/Tolkein/elves/bland.

Agreed, the only steampunk-esque things in GW are the Charr things and possibly some of the dredge stuff (and both of those are more industrial than steampunk), Asura stuff is Magitech or Magepunk

Many terms could be thrown around to describe the Charr and Asura advances in technology, and I don’t see how using steampunk is erroneous, since it’s defined as: “a subgenre of science fiction and fantasy featuring advanced machines and other technology based on steam power of the 19th century and taking place in a recognizable historical period or a fantasy world.” And, interestingly enough, wikipedia includes this description on their steampunk page: “The massively-multiplayer online game Guild Wars 2 has a race known as the Charr, who live in the non-specific steampunk capital city called the Black Citadel. The city is heavily mechanized and industrial and their focus is on the building of war machines.”

Now while I’ll agree I don’t necessarily see the Charr or Asura technology being steam-powered per se, I think the other aspect of the definition definitely fit. But if you wish to find the correct term? What exactly is magitech? Magepunk? Cyberpunk? You can mash any two words together to create a style description, like, i dunno — technogoth? What is it? Dunno, just made it up. But I’ll bet once you read the term, different images immediately popped into your head of what it might be, and I think the same applies to those deeming the Charr to be steampunk.

But, back to the main point, I don’t think the abundance of technogical advancement would be quite so apparent if there was an equal amount of magical/mystical advancement that went hand-in-hand with it in ways that have already been mentioned. As it stands right now, it’s really only the Norn areas that seem to have that type of slant. And perhaps the Sylvari, but I can’t bring myself to hang around Caledon much … I always feel like I’m at a gardening nursery.

mojowalker.3798:

to find the correct term? What exactly is magitech?

technology that is powered by magic rather than engineering (eg, a flamethrower powered by a fire elemental rather than fuel), that’s the point, it’s magical tech :P

(magepunk is modern technology where things are done magically for no good reason, much like steam is used in steampunk, in magitech, the difference is that it is used for a GOOD reason, eg, “fuel is rare but we have lots of elementals wandering about” or it fills a niche that couldn’t be done with technology in that setting, and cyberpunk is modern technology where computers are added for even the simplest things, like on a table)

Don’t make me link TVTropes, I swear to god I will

Calcifire.1864:

mojowalker.3798:

to find the correct term? What exactly is magitech?

technology that is powered by magic rather than engineering (eg, a flamethrower powered by a fire elemental rather than fuel), that’s the point, it’s magical tech :P

(magepunk is modern technology where things are done magically for no good reason, much like steam is used in steampunk, in magitech, the difference is that it is used for a GOOD reason, eg, “fuel is rare but we have lots of elementals wandering about” or it fills a niche that couldn’t be done with technology in that setting, and cyberpunk is modern technology where computers are added for even the simplest things, like on a table)

Don’t make me link TVTropes, I swear to god I will

Hee. I like Asura, but…they make Final Fantasy 7+ settings (skipping 9, as that’s a something of a throwback to the old more fantasy-style days) look primitive. the Charr…are Furry Mad Max. The problem isn’t so much with the style itself, it’s that it’s rather badly inconsistant with either the established past (the Asura do have the Gates and the golems…but the rest is kinda overboard even if you try to throw in the Gods actually being extradimensional aliens…and how the heck did Charr get Spaceship Earth and such given their medieval-barbarian tech base??)

Vulpis.8063:

Calcifire.1864:

mojowalker.3798:

to find the correct term? What exactly is magitech?

technology that is powered by magic rather than engineering (eg, a flamethrower powered by a fire elemental rather than fuel), that’s the point, it’s magical tech :P

(magepunk is modern technology where things are done magically for no good reason, much like steam is used in steampunk, in magitech, the difference is that it is used for a GOOD reason, eg, “fuel is rare but we have lots of elementals wandering about” or it fills a niche that couldn’t be done with technology in that setting, and cyberpunk is modern technology where computers are added for even the simplest things, like on a table)

Don’t make me link TVTropes, I swear to god I will

Hee. I like Asura, but…they make Final Fantasy 7+ settings (skipping 9, as that’s a something of a throwback to the old more fantasy-style days) look primitive. the Charr…are Furry Mad Max. The problem isn’t so much with the style itself, it’s that it’s rather badly inconsistant with either the established past (the Asura do have the Gates and the golems…but the rest is kinda overboard even if you try to throw in the Gods actually being extradimensional aliens…and how the heck did Charr get Spaceship Earth and such given their medieval-barbarian tech base??)

It’s been 250 years. Cultures change and evolve. Humans are a lot more technologically advanced, look at the agriculture, and so are Charr. Charr’s engineering and tech is stemmed from wanting be a powerful military force and global power.

What wouldn’t make sense is if Charr stayed the same after 250 years when they’ve shown to be a developing species and proactive in improving their infrastructure. They have the drive, they the will, they will find a way.

In less than 50 years, people have developed technology in the real world at an alarming rate. 50 years ago, we didn’t have the internet. I think 2.5 centuries is enough time at least develop steam/gear tech.

Kokocat.6045:

It’s been 250 years. Cultures change and evolve. Humans are a lot more technologically advanced, look at the agriculture, and so are Charr. Charr’s engineering and tech is stemmed from wanting be a powerful military force and global power.

Quite true. Imagine New York city in 1950: skyscrapers, cars, commercial air travel, etc. Then think about New York in 1700… think there’s a difference?

And we live in a world where people don’t control flame, make 100 foot tall ice sculptures or otherwise warp the laws of physics all with the wave of hand. In such an context, its actually more immersion-breaking that Divinity’s reach still looks renaissance-period instead of being a giant magitech metropolis.

I think GW1 was a place where magic was used alot, the ED still slept, the Human Gods still had a presence…

+ The most important factor

The technologie wasn’t evolved enough. We are getting at the point where Technologie get’s more powerful than magic, as magic always stays as powerful, but Technologie keeps evolving (a mage might get more powerful over the year, but when he dies, his knowlege might partialy carry over but his skill is lost, while technologie keeps evolving)