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Posted by: Xslan.4675

Xslan.4675

This episode probably has the worst story for my character, i simply hate the fact that my charr character joined the “inner circle” of the shinning blades. I play a charr serving in the ash legion for gods sake he most definitely would not take that oath or be allowed to by the humans.

My Charr didn’t just join a guild like destiny’s edge or dragon’s watch, he joined/cooperated with a foreign government intelligence agency at the highest level without orders from command which is treason.

BTW for those who dont play Charr
the Charr PC never left the legion instead the Charr PC asked for and was granted military leave from their respective tribune to join the pact as special assignment, it was explicitly stated that the Charr PC is still a centurion of their respective legion.

I have low expectation for MMO stories but this is just preposterous, whats next a human joins the legion? an asura joins the sylvari first born?

A lot of this episode is just fillers running around doing heart quests, sure its cool to have human ghosts shout at my charr but it is nothing compare to the fact that my charr is now part of the shinning blade. It just reminds me how ridiculous it is that the charr responsible for two human genocide in ascalon and orr is now part of the human secret service “INNER CIRCLE”.

In addition the info we got was so underwhelming, everyone knew shinning blade wanted to kill Lazarus that’s not a secret, the white mantle is public enemy after they attacked divinity’s reach.

This oath and Braham’s tantrum are the two flies in the ointment for season 3 story telling and in this episode they seem to change the commander’s attitude toward Braham’s actions based on player feedback. It suggests it is impossible to fix an episode’s story once it is out, which is a shame since no matter what happens in future story Braham’s tantrum and the shinning blade oath will always be ridiculous at the time of their presentation.

From Scarlet to world summit to the pact assembling the hot expansion was well setup, season 3 chased after white mantle, lazarus, primordus and jormag all of which now seems irrelevant to the next expansion. I sincerely hope the announcement sets up the next expansion well, so far it seems shoddily done.

(edited by Xslan.4675)

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Posted by: brenda.9723

brenda.9723

I agree. Its the same problem as with the Balthazar story, namely that all the races would and should respond very differently, but didnt. Be happy if you played the instance alone, bc the multi-player mode is crappy.

I am very sad how the whole mursaat/white mantle story has ended. I really hoped that he would escape :,(. They teased the whole lazarus/mursaat thing so much, and then just kill them off?? So sad. Its sad that the mursaat story is probably over, and they didnt tell us the whole mursaat story (F.E.: why is rata sum an anagram for mursaat, why do the exalted look like mursaat, ect).

It feels like the game teases us with all kinds of possible revealed secrets (old god temples of abaddon, secrets of the shining blade, ect), but gives us nothing.

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Posted by: Yuffi.2430

Yuffi.2430

I’ve not yet taken my Charr through the story but had exactly the same thoughts.

The character I did take through is a Sylvari. I’m happy to help the Humans, and will continue to do so, but to be forced to join the Shining Blade with no option is a reflection of a poorly thought out story. The Mordremoth story took account of race with Sylvari hearing and denying the whispered voice of the dragon – why doesn’t LS3?

I would have helped anyway without the oath: so why make me take an oath of secrecy for a secret organisation I didn’t want to join? And for what gain did this occur – to set up the final scene of a genocide? This is not something my character would have chosen.

At least the Vigil, Priory and Order of Whispers are multi-species groups with an open agenda. How does being part of the Shining Blade sit with the priorities of my chosen faction?

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Posted by: Tiny Doom.4380

Tiny Doom.4380

I took my Asura druid through it and I actually shouted “No I don’t!” at the screen when he agreed to take the oath. Who writes this stuff? Do they even think about what they are making our characters say and do?

Fatuous nonsense.

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Posted by: Spiritz Wamphryi.8316

Spiritz Wamphryi.8316

brenda – if i recall the temple of abbadon in the personal story was destroyed after but remember that it was a lost temple and in original lore any record of abbadon was wiped out after his revolt against the other 5 gods . Tbh its nice to have a reference to abbadon in gw2 due to him having a role in all 3 expansions ( eye of the north wasnt an expansion but more an addon ) . As for the charr issue – isnt there currently a peace treaty between humans and charr which may mean either side will assist the other if needed in protecting the home land against any threats ( which the pact does try and do ) . Besides wouldnt the order of whispers be human and not containing any charr/asuran/norn/sylvari . Now the white mantle – primarily they were human but if we consider that they were posing as bandits which classes them as outlaws which in the same “class” renegades of both charr and humans both fall into . Im sure that if a charr in the shining blade came to a situation where there would be a conflict of interest which affected his oath to both sides there would be something in place for it – and im sure it wouldnt mean breaking either oath as that would imply they are untrustworthy . Personally i take the line where – the person themself is protecting both interests – think where the charr were reluctant to help against the elder dragons till it was pointed out mordremoth was reaching charr homelands and everyone needed to band together and it showed that even tho charr and humans had differences that the humans were prepared to fight and possibly die in helping charr . Give warring factions a common cause and they will set aside differences and fight for the common cause – something thats big in gw2 . AS for rata sum – its a hard one but we do know that asurans have a thing for naming their cities Rata – Rata sum , Rata Novus so cant really say but we do know rata sum is probably younger than rata novus and the asuran ancestors had dealings with the exalted – lore can be very sketchy on details . Thats my take on things

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Posted by: Changer the Elder.2948

Changer the Elder.2948

Agreed. I do get that we’re the minority and we are to expect the shorter end of the stick, but come on. This was so blatant and the ludonarrative dissonance it created was so kitten jarring I actually for the first time just opted to skip the story at first and just port-to-friend to the new map.

Longer version here, so I don’t doublepost: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/SPOILERS-Season-3-Over-All/first#post6655861

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

Oh yeah how I miss the times where I was optimistic that in future Arena Net would fit the story to your Characters decisions, race and gender etc …… like the previous Story-Chief told us at the annocement event for HoT …..

I really happy that I didnt play that episode with my lightbringer. That would be kind of an awkward conversion with my bosses.

“So Lightbringer, I heard you have managed your way into the inner circle of the shining blade. Noticed anything which might conflict with the goals of the order?”

" I am sorry sir, I am not allowed to tell you that. I promised to never tell any secrets or try to harm kryta or the queen."

“And if someday kryta decides to rekindle the war with the Charr Legions, destroy the order of whispers and seek for world domination, then …. "

" I will keep silent and stare intensively, like I have promised."

“Lightbringer, please follow me. We have to do an intensive conversation about secrets and loyalties ….. "

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

I’ve not yet taken my Charr through the story but had exactly the same thoughts.

The character I did take through is a Sylvari. I’m happy to help the Humans, and will continue to do so, but to be forced to join the Shining Blade with no option is a reflection of a poorly thought out story. The Mordremoth story took account of race with Sylvari hearing and denying the whispered voice of the dragon – why doesn’t LS3?

I would have helped anyway without the oath: so why make me take an oath of secrecy for a secret organisation I didn’t want to join? And for what gain did this occur – to set up the final scene of a genocide? This is not something my character would have chosen.

At least the Vigil, Priory and Order of Whispers are multi-species groups with an open agenda. How does being part of the Shining Blade sit with the priorities of my chosen faction?

A few redditors have noted that it’s going to be really difficult for a Sylvari to keep the secret of the Shining Blade from the Dream. Mama Tree is going to know all of that stuff within a fortnight, and then the PC probably explodes in some horrific display.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Serophous.9085

Serophous.9085

Oh yeah how I miss the times where I was optimistic that in future Arena Net would fit the story to your Characters decisions, race and gender etc …… like the previous Story-Chief told us at the annocement event for HoT …..

I really happy that I didnt play that episode with my lightbringer. That would be kind of an awkward conversion with my bosses.

“So Lightbringer, I heard you have managed your way into the inner circle of the shining blade. Noticed anything which might conflict with the goals of the order?”

" I am sorry sir, I am not allowed to tell you that. I promised to never tell any secrets or try to harm kryta or the queen."

“And if someday kryta decides to rekindle the war with the Charr Legions, destroy the order of whispers and seek for world domination, then …. "

" I will keep silent and stare intensively, like I have promised."

“Lightbringer, please follow me. We have to do an intensive conversation about secrets and loyalties ….. "

This

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Posted by: Naro.5496

Naro.5496

I was completely disappointed with this episode and the new map…. I really enjoyed the first half of the season leading on from HOT…. hatching the egg…. taking care of Aurene…. preparing to fight the next elder dragon….. Then Head of the snake came along and all of a sudden this story line gets abandoned… in favour of Caudacus and White Mantle…. totally out of left field….. I was still optimistic and really was enjoying the new maps…. I thought the two story lines would come back together…. never did…. instead they try to wow us by bringing Balthazar into it at the last minute… lame move…. totally ruined the lore and the story imo…. Before the gods were… well… gods…. all powerful and distant…. now Balthazar is just some kitten making a power move in Tyria… dont like it. Yet with the final episode looming… I was still hopeful… they would tie it all together with a triumphant finale…. and um… we got One Journey ends… completely anti climatic end to the season.

Instead of pushing to a powerful climax… we get introduced to a new character… I found the banter incredibly cheesy and irritating…. Then we spend the rest of the episode relating to her…. Where is Dragon’s Watch? Where are our friends? Where is anyone or anything I could possibly care about? Locked away as throw away comments in the endless sea of irritating dialogue. The elder dragons we are supposed to be dealing with? Dismissed with hardly a word.

I thought the masonic style ritual that made up the second part was ridiculous… Terribly scripted and performed…. One of the worst pieces of storytelling Ive seen in a game… The lack of cutscenes or cinematics made the whole thing feel boring and mundane… as opposed to the second half of Season 2… which I felt was riveting…. by the end I was shouting for more.

I found the new map completely uninspiring… definitely the worst of the lot… full of gimmicks and no apparent reward…. the new mastery is lame…. I just really dont understand what they were thinking? As I said at the beginning… I am completely disappointed with this instalment…. They took a perfectly good series and dropped it on its head.

As far as it goes… I am still looking forward to the expansion… will definitely be buying it…. but this episode did nothing to encourage me… In fact it kinda worries me about the direction the story will be moving in from now on… If I weren’t such a die hard fan and avid player…. I would be totally put off by this and probably wouldn’t buy the expansion… but I am… so I will.

I just hope this episode was just a glitch in the matrix and not a sign of the story telling that is to come…. Sorry for being so negative… but after finishing the story last night… I needed to get this off my chest…. Thanks for listening

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Posted by: VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618

VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618

why should a charr, that worked with humans, fought side by side with humans against dragons, joined order that is at least partially composed of humans, have problems working with the shining blade?

At that part of character development, the charr char should either grown enough to see beyond the species – or should not be part of the story anymore.

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Posted by: Changer the Elder.2948

Changer the Elder.2948

why should a charr, that worked with humans, fought side by side with humans against dragons, joined order that is at least partially composed of humans, have problems working with the shining blade?

At that part of character development, the charr char should either grown enough to see beyond the species – or should not be part of the story anymore.

There’s a royal difference between cooperating with another faction and seeing past differences (i.e. Vigil, Pact) and joining secret society whos first and foremost goal is to propagate their own interests possibly at the cost of yours. See: “you will do no harm to Kryta”, “You are now protector of the kingdom”, both under penalty of death.

Even so, it would be possible, if it were somehow reflected by the characters, other than “ew, we’ve never had a non-human, is it sanitary?”

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

why should a charr, that worked with humans, fought side by side with humans against dragons, joined order that is at least partially composed of humans, have problems working with the shining blade?

At that part of character development, the charr char should either grown enough to see beyond the species – or should not be part of the story anymore.

Two reasons, one top-down, the other bottom-up:

1. As a Charr, he should still be loyal to the Legions. That’s not something you just “get over” when it’s been a tight bond of your social structure since childhood. GW2 never really addresses this, but it the sort of loss the character endures, more than once, should be devastating. Add in that Kryta is barely an ally (cease-fire, not a treaty), and the notion of forging a soul-binding agreement to a human (still a potential enemy) cult should be a non-starter.

2. As a former leader of the Pact, the character should be free of complicated entanglements and loyalties to a particular sovereignty. Theoretically, this would include his home nation, or he would be pressured to step down. None of the PC characters, regardless of race, should have made that choice, especially for a simple scrap of information.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

why should a charr, that worked with humans, fought side by side with humans against dragons, joined order that is at least partially composed of humans, have problems working with the shining blade?

At that part of character development, the charr char should either grown enough to see beyond the species – or should not be part of the story anymore.

Two reasons, one top-down, the other bottom-up:

1. As a Charr, he should still be loyal to the Legions. That’s not something you just “get over” when it’s been a tight bond of your social structure since childhood. GW2 never really addresses this, but it the sort of loss the character endures, more than once, should be devastating. Add in that Kryta is barely an ally (cease-fire, not a treaty), and the notion of forging a soul-binding agreement to a human (still a potential enemy) cult should be a non-starter.

2. As a former leader of the Pact, the character should be free of complicated entanglements and loyalties to a particular sovereignty. Theoretically, this would include his home nation, or he would be pressured to step down. None of the PC characters, regardless of race, should have made that choice, especially for a simple scrap of information.

I would disagree on this. Charr characters are beyond their loyalty to their legion. Have you ever reported your actions to the Black Citadel after you joined an order? The destiny of the PC is very singular in this aspect and he proved it on many occasions. Sure it is maybe easier for other races but in that sense I find the Charr perspective much more interesting.

Not being commander of the Pact is also a nice occasion for the PC to actually enter some secret societies, a thing he would never have done before, you are right. But now he’s free of this duty and able to take his own decision without taking care of the implications of such choices because he is “only” former commander.

On top of this, Anise is clear that being part of the inner circle does not imply too many duties in PC’s case, just do not fight against the sovereign of Kryta. She actually pushes the oath in PC’s favour so that he can get some intel she would literaly die for revealing. She said clearly she’s having an eye on the PC since years and it is clear she would have been less secretive to him if he would have been part of the Shining Blade since the beginning.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Oh yeah how I miss the times where I was optimistic that in future Arena Net would fit the story to your Characters decisions, race and gender etc …… like the previous Story-Chief told us at the annocement event for HoT …..

I really happy that I didnt play that episode with my lightbringer. That would be kind of an awkward conversion with my bosses.

“So Lightbringer, I heard you have managed your way into the inner circle of the shining blade. Noticed anything which might conflict with the goals of the order?”

" I am sorry sir, I am not allowed to tell you that. I promised to never tell any secrets or try to harm kryta or the queen."

“And if someday kryta decides to rekindle the war with the Charr Legions, destroy the order of whispers and seek for world domination, then …. "

" I will keep silent and stare intensively, like I have promised."

“Lightbringer, please follow me. We have to do an intensive conversation about secrets and loyalties ….. "

The PC character quit their position in the Pact and by extension their position in their chosen order.
The PC is no longer bound by their order and could join a new order at their discretion.

As for the Charr, the Charr PC was transferred out of the legions when they joined the order, thus nullifying that connection.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

(edited by Crinn.7864)

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Posted by: Lethalvriend.1723

Lethalvriend.1723

Looking back at season 3 and comparing it to season 1 and 2 for example it feels like going from a bicyle to an F1. We went through so many different aspects and (somewhat) closed down a whole bunch in just one season. I have a feeling they want to divert from dragon stories and took this oppertunity to quickly get it done so they can focus on other things in the expansion. Perhaps that is also the whole reason it’s set up this way. I do like the map design and battles in this new story.

My main is also a Charr and I agree, would absolutely never join the Shining Blade. Even if he’s not an anti-human racist I think he shouldn’t be in the spot even if he’s being offered one properly.

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Posted by: ZeftheWicked.3076

ZeftheWicked.3076

Agreed on how they botched Lazarus. An extremely important story character from gw1, teased and foreshadowed a lot in LS3, and then we finally summon the real thing only to go.

“Hi. Die.”

After all that you-know-what-teasing with fake lazarus, the whole mursaat themed raid wing, not to mention Ember Bay mursaat ruins….

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

The PC character quit their position in the Pact and by extension their position in their chosen order.
The PC is no longer bound by their order and could join a new order at their discretion.

No. Your Character never left its order. Otherwise you wouldnt have access to the inner sanctum of your orders headquarters.

And if Anet really did pull that off, that is even worse. Because that would make any decision you made in the main game completly irrelevant. Which is exactly the opposite of what they were trying to do in HoT. And that would suck. Because getting that little extra information for my lightbringer from other agents was a really cool part of the world building, if that will be gone in future because Anet cant handle a customizable protagonist ….. is kind of sad……

I would prefer to have a bit less story but small bits depending on your choices then having completly the same story with every character, where none of your decisions matters.

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Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

Nothing new here..
Taimi treats my Asura.. who won the Snaff Savant title.. as a braindead skritt….

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Posted by: Changer the Elder.2948

Changer the Elder.2948

As for the Charr, the Charr PC was transferred out of the legions when they joined the order, thus nullifying that connection.

Except no, that’s not how it works. It’s actually explicitly stated that you never lose your alignment to your legions. Only that some work away from their warbands and legions (in Vigil, in Order, in Priory, etc) for prolonged periods of time, often years without contact with the Citadel, but it is actually addressed early on in the original game that just because you’re away, it never means your duties to your legion magically disappear.

So yes, even a Pact commander is still a charr, still a member of their warband and still an officer of their legion.

(edited by Changer the Elder.2948)

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Posted by: Xslan.4675

Xslan.4675

why should a charr, that worked with humans, fought side by side with humans against dragons, joined order that is at least partially composed of humans, have problems working with the shining blade?

At that part of character development, the charr char should either grown enough to see beyond the species – or should not be part of the story anymore.

Two reasons, one top-down, the other bottom-up:

1. As a Charr, he should still be loyal to the Legions. That’s not something you just “get over” when it’s been a tight bond of your social structure since childhood. GW2 never really addresses this, but it the sort of loss the character endures, more than once, should be devastating. Add in that Kryta is barely an ally (cease-fire, not a treaty), and the notion of forging a soul-binding agreement to a human (still a potential enemy) cult should be a non-starter.

2. As a former leader of the Pact, the character should be free of complicated entanglements and loyalties to a particular sovereignty. Theoretically, this would include his home nation, or he would be pressured to step down. None of the PC characters, regardless of race, should have made that choice, especially for a simple scrap of information.

I would disagree on this. Charr characters are beyond their loyalty to their legion. Have you ever reported your actions to the Black Citadel after you joined an order? The destiny of the PC is very singular in this aspect and he proved it on many occasions. Sure it is maybe easier for other races but in that sense I find the Charr perspective much more interesting.

Not being commander of the Pact is also a nice occasion for the PC to actually enter some secret societies, a thing he would never have done before, you are right. But now he’s free of this duty and able to take his own decision without taking care of the implications of such choices because he is “only” former commander.

On top of this, Anise is clear that being part of the inner circle does not imply too many duties in PC’s case, just do not fight against the sovereign of Kryta. She actually pushes the oath in PC’s favour so that he can get some intel she would literaly die for revealing. She said clearly she’s having an eye on the PC since years and it is clear she would have been less secretive to him if he would have been part of the Shining Blade since the beginning.

No Charr is beyond their legion, the Charr PC was ordered by their tribune to join the pact and act as a link between pact and citadel command. The Charr PC helping the pack is obeying their instruction from the citadel. My charr didn’t need to report because he was following the legion’s direction without which he would never been permitted to join the pact orders in the first place.

The citadel command overrides the pact for charr, this is best demonstrated when Rytlock was summoned by the citadel for interrogation because he joined the pack to fight Modremoth without order from the citadel. His duty was to end the ghosts in ascalon, yet when he returned he didn’t report immediately and he faced the consequence. This shows no Charr can disobey the legion not even the tribune and not even to fight dragons and definitely not to work with the shinning blade.

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Posted by: Neutra.6857

Neutra.6857

…I am a sylvari and I am pretty sure I should be dead since this is likely in the dream already. Although, I never spoke about or told the secrets.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Well, my main is a norn. Norns live to build their legend. What point is there for me to join and help a human secret society if I can’t boast about it? Like, ever. I killed the last mursaat and you tell me that skalds can’t sing to everyone about it? How about no.

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

A few redditors have noted that it’s going to be really difficult for a Sylvari to keep the secret of the Shining Blade from the Dream. Mama Tree is going to know all of that stuff within a fortnight, and then the PC probably explodes in some horrific display.

Nope, there’s no magic for spilling secrets. They lied to you.

How do I know? Simple, you never remove or turn off the communicator to Taimi. She got to listen in to everything, as well as track you and pick up any other data that thing can collect. If blabbing their ‘secret’ where Taimi could hear didn’t kill them, then we’re not going to go all head-explodey if it slips into The Dream.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

Yup. My charr ranger is the first character I created and the one I always run through all the stories with. Running through this particular chapter was awful. I was so angry at my player character and the lack of choices. Don’t see why they couldn’t have come up with an alternative path for someone who refuses the oath. If not, then they shouldn’t have had the oath in the story to begin with.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

I agree with this thread. GW2 started with the idea of characters being individuals who had choices that affected the world. Now we’re down to “every character, no matter what their individual situation, is going to take this oath”. Because this one organization is the only one that decides not to trust the commander with a secret? No, because some writer came up with this bad idea for a plot and no one had the stones to say “find another plot idea”. So sad.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

No. Your Character never left its order. Otherwise you wouldnt have access to the inner sanctum of your orders headquarters.

Exactly. We only resigned from our post as Pact Commander.

Because getting that little extra information for my lightbringer from other agents was a really cool part of the world building, if that will be gone in future because Anet cant handle a customizable protagonist ….. is kind of sad……

I would prefer to have a bit less story but small bits depending on your choices then having completly the same story with every character, where none of your decisions matters.

Amen to that.

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

I think for me personally I will go with a nice explanatin from reddit ….. namely that my character was completly drunk in the entire season 3. That fits well because my main is a norn with the hangover story line…… last time she managed to loose a kittening TANK in the wilderness …… so swearing death oath for fun isnt to far fetched.

But I have to disagree with the Sylvari-Argument. I am pretty sure that each individual sylvari somehow has the ability to hide certain memories from the dream ….. because there are also highranking agents of the order of whispers who are sylvary. And I am pretty sure the order of whispers wouldnt allow members to join if they automatically post everything they see to the tyrian equivalent to twitter.

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Posted by: Coffietire.2783

Coffietire.2783

Here’s what needs to be done

At one point there will be a story instance that rewards you with a revive orb. Nothing special about it, it is just the same old orbs you can get in the cash shop, given to you the same way you’re given bags of loot or miscellaneous materials at the end of any story instance.

Later down the line, you are in a situation where you have no choice but to spill the secrets of the Shining Blade. You are now dead, there are no way points or checkpoints.

Do you see where I’m going with this?

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

Riving orbs do not exist in the lore. They are a gameplay thing. Otherwise every dead in the story would be meaningless because they could just be revived with such a orb.

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Posted by: Sailsd.9245

Sailsd.9245

Even as a Sylvari player (or any other race than human) it seems absolutely unbelievable that any of them would join the Shining Blade under any circumstance, especially considering the included death when talking Blade business with unauthorized persons.

Also…kitten my character is an OoW Lightbringer, the Blade might be good, but the Order plays on magnitudes of greater scale and level of secret service, even if they were culled during the jungle campaign of the pact. Is that part of “my story” completely forgotten? :S

Also, if they wanted to reveal the Livia part to everyone, then why not let Lazarus do the job? He called her Livia, revealed all her secrets for her – she wouldn’t have died when telling us again after that fight. No need to join the Blade, just help them and let the reveal come through the outside source.

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Posted by: Coffietire.2783

Coffietire.2783

Riving orbs do not exist in the lore. They are a gameplay thing. Otherwise every dead in the story would be meaningless because they could just be revived with such a orb.

That’s what the story writers WANT you to believe.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Riving orbs do not exist in the lore. They are a gameplay thing. Otherwise every dead in the story would be meaningless because they could just be revived with such a orb.

Nah, most dead NPCs dont have the gems needed to buy the orbs, nor a credit cqrd to get the gems.

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

You want to tell me the PACT does not have the gold to revive their lost commander? Or the order of whispers? Or the krytan kingdom? Because the whole drama for the wounded Logan would be meaningless if he could just get such a kind of reviving orb.

Also gems can be bought by gold.

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Posted by: ErickDntn.1847

ErickDntn.1847

I had a hard time as well swallowing the whole Shining Blade initiation, but now thinking more about it, I kind of started to accept the PC joined the Shining Blade. Consider these:

  • Anise couldn’t tell us their mission due to the oath. However, it was not even clear if the oath allows her to bring outsiders into the mission or not. Based on my personal interpretation, since the philosophy of the oath itself is based on Markis’ betrayal, I don’t think they will allow outsiders from joining their secretive mission as that might reveal their locations of interest, for example, and can jeopardize their ‘secret’. Now, assuming they can bring an outsider into their mission, It feels weirder than actually joining the organization. I mean, both joining the Blade and following them without knowing their intentions are plainly blind trust, particularly for non-human PC. However, I have been thinking about the story and I can justify joining the Blade more than just following them in without any information, considering there is this oath in place, which I’m gonna explain later.
  • As many mentioned, we are free agent. we have no obligation to come to the Blade’s aid no matter how dire the Krytan needs us, we just have to keep their secret. Moreover, this oath that we take seems to serve to destroy the barrier between the PC and the Blade, rather than a rope that binds us and our loyalty to the Krytan throne. Though, Anise does mention that we are not to be complicit with any force working against Kryta. This is interesting to me as Anet can still elaborate on this. But to me, it seems what Anise trying to emphasize is that using our experience working with the Blade against them will also break the oath, obviously. But again, this is the most intriguing part of the oath to me and hopefully anet will get back to this oath.
  • Our PC has seen the whole truth, if not almost, to all the nuisance. We have all these superordinate goals and have work with various races to realize it. I remember a bit about this psychological study about working towards superordinate goals can lower one’s perception about ingroup-outgroup, and from this, I can kind of sympathize with the PC’s decision, regardless of race. It what makes the non-human PC is more individualized, they see things through more than their faction due to their past experience. However, my main criticism for this is how lacking personal struggle to change is shown in the instance. For Charr, as example, they could have added race-specific concern that they the PC raise when they know they must take the oath to proceed, like how they are a member of the charr legion and all. Then Anise could follow by saying that, well, first she can’t tell you otherwise cus she’s going to die, and second how taking the oath is not against your personal interest as an individual and probably add that the PC taking the oath will also be a part of the secret that will not go outside, then the ‘free agent’ dialogue can follow. Or, you know, something along that line. This is why I think taking the oath is more reasonable than just joining the Blade’s mission, even if that is possible, as it also sends a pretty good message on the whole ’we’re not actually that different’ thing through the story. But alas, I think they missed the opportunity to humanized (lol) the PC.
  • As a player who doesn’t have the leisure to play GW1, I am pretty happy that we dig into the Shining Blade story and what makes them what they are today hahaha.

Now, I understand that people have their own RP (like anti-human charr or so) on their character, but gw2 story is also pretty linear. That’s basically it unfortunately xD

TLDR; I’m starting to agree with the PC decision to take the oath because of how I interpret stuff personally, I just think that the story fails miserably in delivering the individualized reaction/dialogue as it falls short to flavorless.

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Posted by: Gomes.5643

Gomes.5643

  • As many mentioned, we are free agent. we have no obligation to come to the Blade’s aid no matter how dire the Krytan needs us, we just have to keep their secret. Moreover, this oath that we take seems to serve to destroy the barrier between the PC and the Blade, rather than a rope that binds us and our loyalty to the Krytan throne. Though, Anise does mention that we are not to be complicit with any force working against Kryta. This is interesting to me as Anet can still elaborate on this. But to me, it seems what Anise trying to emphasize is that using our experience working with the Blade against them will also break the oath, obviously. But again, this is the most intriguing part of the oath to me and hopefully anet will get back to this oath.

Well this is not the whole story. The commander effectively cannot spill out any secret the shining blade and therefore the krytan government may have. So if tomorrow queen jennah decided to make a surprise attack on the charr in ascalon to take back their lands, there is not much we can do about it …. because we cannot even tell anyone….

So the story is perfectly fine for a human. They should have at least some trust in their government. And for many of them joining the shining blades is also a great honor.

But for a Charr? Even if he somehow is so smitten by the 3?….4? times he have met with the human queen, that she will never cancel the peace contract…. that death oath is made with the shining blade, not the queen per se. So if the queen somehow dies and her successor is more leaning to the war path ….. that death oath is not cancelled ….

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

I had no problem with my characters taking the oath. If we’re serious about saving Tyria you have to do whatever it takes to get the resources and information you need, and if that means lying to some secret society or the Orders or the PACT so be it.
I’m working to save the planet, not just one region. They can play their political games with their secret handshakes and oaths and clubhouses.
Meanwhile, I’m out there getting the job done.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

I had no problem with my characters taking the oath. If we’re serious about saving Tyria you have to do whatever it takes to get the resources and information you need, and if that means lying to some secret society or the Orders or the PACT so be it.
I’m working to save the planet, not just one region. They can play their political games with their secret handshakes and oaths and clubhouses.
Meanwhile, I’m out there getting the job done.

You apparently didn’t understand the idea of “magic oath that will kill you if you tell a Kryta government (not Tyria) secret”. Which means that the government of Kryta could be planning to take over the planet and you couldn’t tell anyone. Stupid plot.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

I had no problem with my characters taking the oath. If we’re serious about saving Tyria you have to do whatever it takes to get the resources and information you need, and if that means lying to some secret society or the Orders or the PACT so be it.
I’m working to save the planet, not just one region. They can play their political games with their secret handshakes and oaths and clubhouses.
Meanwhile, I’m out there getting the job done.

You apparently didn’t understand the idea of “magic oath that will kill you if you tell a Kryta government (not Tyria) secret”. Which means that the government of Kryta could be planning to take over the planet and you couldn’t tell anyone. Stupid plot.

Pfffft. Magical unbreakable killer oath. Pleeeeze. I don’t believe it for a second. It’s just misinformation meant to scare the oath-taker into keeping silent. They have no actual power to stop you spilling the beans.

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Posted by: Xenon.4537

Xenon.4537

The whole time on my Asura joining the Sining Blade I was just thinking… this is childish and ridiculous… My character has no reason to trust these people and yet I’m taking a blood oath that will kill me if I break it… What kind of Asura is that stupid?

You know one time I was using a dating website and I met this girl. We texted for 2 days. Then she asked me to drive over 2 hours away after midnight to her house where she was alone. 2 days texting. She doesn’t know me. I don’t know her. I could be an axe murderer. She could be an axe murderer. What kind of woman is stupid enough to invite a stranger from the internet to her house in the middle of the night after 2 days of texting? And how stupid would I feel if I went over there and woke up the next day missing a kidney? Needless to say I didn’t go.

The entire joining of the Shining Blade was handled very poorly. The writing team needs to learn how to actually build up a story over the course of more than one episode. Characters need to have realistic motivations. There’s an extremely important part of basic story-writing called exposition that Anet needs to actually include in the story.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

What kind of woman is stupid enough to invite a stranger from the internet to her house in the middle of the night after 2 days of texting?

A thirsty one. o_O

I just can’t believe that the Commander was so, so desperate for some not-so-significant scrap of information that he couldn’t think to put his leverage onto someone else to look. Former Pact Leader could at least go to Soulkeeper and nudge some Whispers ties into finding out.
There was an opportunity to have a branching path mission to find that information out:
•Whispers way – Sneak around and find out what Livia’s up to.
•Priory way – Undergo the initiation to the Shining Blade, while wearing a magic talisman transfers the death effect to it.
•Vigil way – Don’t bother with sneaky intel and smash something else, barging in where Livia’s supposed to be and catch her in the act.

Instead, we got rocks dropped on our heads and more OP mesmer nonsense, so we can casually accept both a blood oath and vengeful genocide.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

On replaying this, I’m not sure if the oath actually kills magically, unless I missed something. I get the impression that if you break it, the Shining Blade might come after you, that’s all. I also get the impression that when Kerida says “she would die” after revealing secrets, she means it personally. I think she means that if people knew her secret (i.e. that she's Livia), her life would be in danger from various sources.

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Posted by: Doni.3402

Doni.3402

If the oath doesn’t kill magically Anise and the other Exemplars could just have decided the Commander is trusworthy enough and tell him what he wants to know.

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

Yeah, this episode was the worst, even worse than casually abandoning the Pact in Ep1, and especially for charr. None of it made any sense, the NPCs were complete tossers from start to finish (business as usual by now, sadly), my character had no place in the narrative whatsoever and was just supposed to be an adoring and obedient spectator to said NPCs’ awesomeness (business as usual again) — and to put the cherry on the BS sundae I’m now essentially the Shining Blade’s and Jenna’s slave. Wonderful.

Also, as someone who never played GW1, this season didn’t give me any reason whatsoever to care about any of the people, places or doodads that I’m supposed to be ever so impressed by. All they did was to thoroughly tick me off.

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Posted by: Mana Garmr.7582

Mana Garmr.7582

On replaying this, I’m not sure if the oath actually kills magically, unless I missed something. I get the impression that if you break it, the Shining Blade might come after you, that’s all. I also get the impression that when Kerida says “she would die” after revealing secrets, she means it personally. I think she means that if people knew her secret (i.e. that she's Livia), her life would be in danger from various sources.

If you talk to the other Blade members after the oath one of them mentions that an unintended but handy secondary use for it is that, if a member is captured and being tortured for information, they can purposefully try to break the oath as a means of suicide. So it’s definitely intended as magical insta-death.

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Posted by: ErickDntn.1847

ErickDntn.1847

Well this is not the whole story. The commander effectively cannot spill out any secret the shining blade and therefore the krytan government may have. So if tomorrow queen jennah decided to make a surprise attack on the charr in ascalon to take back their lands, there is not much we can do about it …. because we cannot even tell anyone….

So the story is perfectly fine for a human. They should have at least some trust in their government. And for many of them joining the shining blades is also a great honor.

But for a Charr? Even if he somehow is so smitten by the 3?….4? times he have met with the human queen, that she will never cancel the peace contract…. that death oath is made with the shining blade, not the queen per se. So if the queen somehow dies and her successor is more leaning to the war path ….. that death oath is not cancelled ….

Yeah, you are right that I didn’t mention that part of a possible future conflict that may arise between human and other races, mainly the charr, though I did imagine such case. But as far as I stretch my imagination, I know that it must be realistic so that it is consistent with the current situation.

So let’s we evaluate the purpose of the Shining Blade. As far as I know, their existence in GW1 was to support Krytan royal blood line to the throne and challenge the White Mantle. In addition to that, it seems that the Blade is also there to secure the succession of the Krytan monarchy. Such foreign invasion is literally the opposite of securing the thrones. While I only read the lore, what I can infer is that all that the Blade has done more than 250 ago was as a means of self-preservation. Why would Anise support such notion? I mean, even Livia wouldn’t want to support it though she is a die hard Krytan lover since that will endanger the people nation itself. If anything, I could imagine that some other royal blood, not that I could name any, would challenge a claim to the throne, or the Blade might even disband themselves, which might even break the oath lol. But more importantly, and it is more definite than the previous hypotheses, why even the Shining Blade passes this info to the non-human PC? Yes the oath prevent us from spilling the secret, but it doesn’t give us the ability to telepathically read fellow Shining Blade mind, does it? And even if the leaker will eventually die, it doesn’t stop the secret being revealed. I mean the charr PC may even take a shot to the heart to save the Citadel right?

And look, I know it is not emphasized that much in the game, but among all the races, the human civilization has declined pretty badly. Yeah, the White Mantle is toppled now, but there are centaurs, White-mantle left-over or the bandits, and among other things. And why would the Krytan attack Ascalon? I mean, yeah they are both human civilization, but they are two separate kingdoms. Interestingly though, I believe I read this propaganda pamphlet by Caudecus to persuade Ascalonian descendants to support his cause, the pamphlet says something about a member of Ascalonian royal hang a member of Shining Blade back in the day or something. So it seems that they don’t really like each other as well? In addition to that, Ascalon has always belonged to the charr, though that prolly won’t stop the human I must admit xD But again, even if anet goes down that road, for the sake of consistency, I just hope they won’t bring the Shining Blade with them lol.

Though, let’s we face the basic truth, Jennah will not likely go down that path, there are just too many strains. Human is a playable race and Divinity’s Reach is a major capital. What are they gonna do? Relocate Human capital city? Well actually I won’t be surprised that if Anet did that. But how about new player who just started the game, what happen to the old DR? I can imagine something like Lion’s Arch, but there will be just too much revamp to be honest. Yeah, there might be a possibility that there will be warmonger powerful human figure, but I don’t think we will work against the Blade.

I’m not saying that this won’t happen, this is just my opinion after all. It might happen, but probably in GW3 xD

EDIT: now you mentioned a shift in power, I’m starting to think if it is possible for a monarch to fire a Master Exemplar? I mean it probably is, but what stops them from going back to the old ways and finding a more suitable Krytan royal that can restore peace, given that the scenario of a rising imperialist monarch?

(edited by ErickDntn.1847)

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

If the oath doesn’t kill magically Anise and the other Exemplars could just have decided the Commander is trusworthy enough and tell him what he wants to know.

Or, they think people outside the club might be angry about their plan and want to scare you into keeping it quiet.

On replaying this, I’m not sure if the oath actually kills magically, unless I missed something. I get the impression that if you break it, the Shining Blade might come after you, that’s all. I also get the impression that when Kerida says “she would die” after revealing secrets, she means it personally. I think she means that if people knew her secret (i.e. that she's Livia), her life would be in danger from various sources.

If you talk to the other Blade members after the oath one of them mentions that an unintended but handy secondary use for it is that, if a member is captured and being tortured for information, they can purposefully try to break the oath as a means of suicide. So it’s definitely intended as magical insta-death.

Or they could have been told that but never actually put it to the test themselves.

Look, this kind of death-oath propaganda is exactly what a secret society would want you to believe. I don’t think there’s a death oath and, more importantly, I don’t think the oath is about the aspect or the plan for Lazarus at all.


If you’ve played to the end, you know Kerida is actually Livia, a character from GW1 who has lived for hundreds of years through some magical means in order to defeat her sworn enemy, Lazarus. The plan to raise him and kill him is nothing but a personal vendetta by Livia – and in that way it makes sense. But it’s not about the plan.

I don’t think Anise and the Shining Blade are protecting the plan or the aspects. They’re actually protecting Livia. When she says that revealing the “secret” would lead to her dying her intonation and what we know by the end of the story suggests that she and the Shining Blade are keeping her identity a secret because if it came out, she would be killed – perhaps by the White Mantle, or some other enemies we don’t know about, or perhaps just by hoardes of angry red-necked citizens with pitchforks.

Whatever the case, I suspect the oath isn’t magical and it’s intended to protect Livia. At least, that’s what I think so far. I haven’t explored everything yet and maybe further play-throughs will lead to a different conclusion.

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

Or they could have been told that but never actually put it to the test themselves.

Are you suggesting that the leaders of the Shining Blade have told the members that if they’re being tortured, to just blurt out the deepest secrets of the Shining Blade? Knowing that instead of dying like they expect to, they’ll actually get the words out?

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Or they could have been told that but never actually put it to the test themselves.

Are you suggesting that the leaders of the Shining Blade have told the members that if they’re being tortured, to just blurt out the deepest secrets of the Shining Blade? Knowing that instead of dying like they expect to, they’ll actually get the words out?

Yes. Because studies show that information extracted under torture is unreliable. The victims will say anything they think the torturer wants. When the blade members tell the truth, their captors will think they’re lying. Doesn’t that sound just like the kind of devious plan Anise would come up with?

I’m just kidding. I don’t think anet ever invisioned it to that depth. This whole deadly oath think just smacks of so much misinformation. Do the shining blade members actually say that Anise told them that would happen, or did they hear it from a friend of a friend? Did anyone ever come back after being tortured and reveal that they blabbed but didn’t die? Is there any evidence this thing has ever really been demonstrated?

There is another non-magical possibility – some kind of psychosomatic death. If blade members are so indoctrinated that they truly believe the oath will kill them, the belief itself might kill them if they start to blab.

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Posted by: Lupini.6938

Lupini.6938

I wasn’t comfortable with the outcome either—for all the reasons already listed. You get that far in the instance, and there’s no choice, so you just keep going.

This just felt like an unnecessary side trip. I hope they can tie it all together again.