I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.
I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.
I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.
I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.
(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)
That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking
Wow
It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.
The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)
In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.
What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters
LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!
It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking.
“Use your brain!” No, not insulting at all.
Anything can be made insulting depending on the phrasing used. You’re re-phrasing what I said in such a way that it comes off as that. Critical thinking is a skill that has great use in game and outside the game. Had it been used towards the Justiciar Adrienne encounter, players would have been able to figure out what to do.
I am very familiar with critical thinking – I do it all the time while going about my life. You telling people to use a commonplace skill assumes they don’t already use it and is therefore insulting.
If it’s so common then people should not have any issues with this boss or any other for that matter…
I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.
I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.
I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.
I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.
(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)
That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking
Wow
It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.
Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.
In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.
What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters and their proton packs. When I pulled back from the crystal, lo and behold, there was a beam.
Well… when I heard flux, I thought of the flux capacitor from Back to the Future. I don’t remember flux coming up in Ghostbusters at all so I googled it. The only mention of flux I could find was from the “The Real Ghostbusters” tv series from the 80’s, which was based on the movie.
So… you’re saying that to understand the dialogue.. players have to have watched a tv series from the 80’s? You have to see how that might be a tad more confusing that just calling it a beam?
That is in no way what I said. Seriously…
It is just the first thing that came to my mind when I read flux. Geez. If players want to understand what it means then they need to understand its definition. Simple as that.
Here’s the thing: if you bring up ‘flux’ in casual conversation, what are people going to think of first? Not Ghostbusters. “Back to the Future”, most likely. Maybe “Aeon Flux”. Neither of those will help a player get to ‘beam’. Neither would googling “define:flux”. I tried it. You just happened to have specialised knowledge that led you to the answer quicker than others. That’s not critical thinking. It’s luck.
I personally don’t care what word anet used. The encounter isn’t hard to figure out by chance, experimentation or checking the forums. But like anything else, it can always be improved. Discussing it helps anet tune future encounters to better suit a wider audience. Claiming the encounter is perfect and we’re not capable of critical thinking doesn’t help anybody.
I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.
I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.
I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.
I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.
(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)
That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking
Wow
It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.
Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.
In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.
What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters and their proton packs. When I pulled back from the crystal, lo and behold, there was a beam.
Well… when I heard flux, I thought of the flux capacitor from Back to the Future. I don’t remember flux coming up in Ghostbusters at all so I googled it. The only mention of flux I could find was from the “The Real Ghostbusters” tv series from the 80’s, which was based on the movie.
So… you’re saying that to understand the dialogue.. players have to have watched a tv series from the 80’s? You have to see how that might be a tad more confusing that just calling it a beam?
That is in no way what I said. Seriously…
It is just the first thing that came to my mind when I read flux. Geez. If players want to understand what it means then they need to understand its definition. Simple as that.
Here’s the thing: if you bring up ‘flux’ in casual conversation, what are people going to think of first? Not Ghostbusters. “Back to the Future”, most likely. Maybe “Aeon Flux”. Neither of those will help a player get to ‘beam’. Neither would googling “define:flux”. I tried it. You just happened to have specialised knowledge that led you to the answer quicker than others. That’s not critical thinking. It’s luck.
I personally don’t care what word anet used. The encounter isn’t hard to figure out by chance, experimentation or checking the forums. But like anything else, it can always be improved. Discussing it helps anet tune future encounters to better suit a wider audience. Claiming the encounter is perfect and we’re not capable of critical thinking doesn’t help anybody.
Critical thinking had nothing to do with whether or not you understood what flux means. I’ve already stated many times in this thread what I meant by critical thinking. Anet shouldn’t have to keep the terms used at a lower level so it can be understood by the lowest common denominator. It takes away from the dialogue options. Even then, none of the living story instances, including HoT, have been too difficult that someone couldn’t experiment within the instance and discover the mechanic.
I never said it was perfect. I just didn’t find anything wrong with it to the extent that players could not figure out the mechanic without the hints that Anet tends to leave. There’s also a difference between not being capable of critical thinking and not using it. There have been people that I know are fully capable of figuring out an encounter but just give up way too easily.
I had to read this thread to find out how to do it. I think it’s a failure if you have to go out of game to figure it out.
The flux thing doesn’t mean anything. Flux has nothing to do with beam, and the definition of flux is “a state of change”.
At the elemental part, I thought you activate the skill and it will suck the energy out of the shield. I saw the beam and I thought you need to destroy the bloodstone to stop it leeching magic from you.
In the justicar fight, I realised that the bloodstone actually gave you power (higher attack rate) so I thought maybe you activate it and you could do damage to the shield. That didn’t work so maybe I thought if you used the increased attack to kill the minions, the shield would go down. But they respawned too fast. Maybe you had to lure the justicar closer so the bloodstone could destroy the shield but she never moved closer. Nothing worked so I got stuck. I thought it was a bug so I searched and came here.
No amount of critical thinking could have brought me to the answer. Getting in between the beam doesn’t make sense because draining the energy makes you think of a one way flow between two points. But going in between means the bloodstone is charging the shield at the same rate as you drain the shield so the net effect is nothing.
I had to read this thread to find out how to do it. I think it’s a failure if you have to go out of game to figure it out.
The flux thing doesn’t mean anything. Flux has nothing to do with beam, and the definition of flux is “a state of change”.
At the elemental part, I thought you activate the skill and it will suck the energy out of the shield. I saw the beam and I thought you need to destroy the bloodstone to stop it leeching magic from you.
In the justicar fight, I realised that the bloodstone actually gave you power (higher attack rate) so I thought maybe you activate it and you could do damage to the shield. That didn’t work so maybe I thought if you used the increased attack to kill the minions, the shield would go down. But they respawned too fast. Maybe you had to lure the justicar closer so the bloodstone could destroy the shield but she never moved closer. Nothing worked so I got stuck. I thought it was a bug so I searched and came here.
No amount of critical thinking could have brought me to the answer. Getting in between the beam doesn’t make sense because draining the energy makes you think of a one way flow between two points. But going in between means the bloodstone is charging the shield at the same rate as you drain the shield so the net effect is nothing.
It’s explained in game.
Flux has many meanings when defined.
“the action or process of flowing or flowing out.”
Hmm. Let’s see. Does the energy beam flow out from the shard? Yes.
No amount of critical thinking could have brought me to the answer. Getting in between the beam doesn’t make sense because draining the energy makes you think of a one way flow between two points. But going in between means the bloodstone is charging the shield at the same rate as you drain the shield so the net effect is nothing.
Read the tooltips. “Beam drains energy from everything caught in it and causes slower actions.” Counter magic is to reverse the effect, which is also shown by the beam itself, where you’re now draining energy from everything caught in it and your actions are faster.
If you just listened to the dialogue, “catch the shields in…” was also pretty obvious considering the beam was the only mechanic.
Go play The Secret World’s investigation missions if you want to know what applying critical thinking to a puzzle looks like. This is just plain and simple lack of clarity.
Go play The Secret World’s investigation missions if you want to know what applying critical thinking to a puzzle looks like. This is just plain and simple lack of clarity.
So telling people what to do via dialogue isn’t enough? Do they need arrows and such? Maybe make it like infantile mode in SAB?
As much as it would amuse me to have a blood red cloud with dead eyes and a sadistic smile floating in a corner, it’s probably not all that necessary. :P
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
As much as it would amuse me to have a blood red cloud with dead eyes and a sadistic smile floating in a corner, it’s probably not all that necessary. :P
I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.
I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.
I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.
I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.
(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)
That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking
Wow
It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.
The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)
In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.
What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters
LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!
It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking.
“Use your brain!” No, not insulting at all.
Anything can be made insulting depending on the phrasing used. You’re re-phrasing what I said in such a way that it comes off as that. Critical thinking is a skill that has great use in game and outside the game. Had it been used towards the Justiciar Adrienne encounter, players would have been able to figure out what to do.
I am very familiar with critical thinking – I do it all the time while going about my life. You telling people to use a commonplace skill assumes they don’t already use it and is therefore insulting.
If it’s so common then people should not have any issues with this boss or any other for that matter…
People really shouldn’t have any issues with this boss. But human stupidity and incompetence defies reason.
As much as it would amuse me to have a blood red cloud with dead eyes and a sadistic smile floating in a corner, it’s probably not all that necessary. :P
People would still be confused and complaining about how hard and unclear it is.
Thank you. I was just stabbing in the dark, thinking what a piece of kitten game, with such a convoluted and unintuitive solution. It was just a frustrating, unenjoyable experience, and that was my impression of this game from this fight