Guild Wars 2

Look Arena Net, if we wanted a cheesy villain we’d watch Sunday morning cartoons or read comic books…

Okay my jokes over, onto the seriousness.

Most players can agree that it’s no secret that Scarlet’s story is overall bland, boring, generic, and uninteresting. Some players believe that her storyline will be revived, fused with older lore, and turned into interesting. However, I completely disagree with this approach.

You have to understand something, Arena Net, the damage is already done. No matter what you attempt to do to Scarlet’s story, my guildies and I will cringe after seeing/hearing her name. The more and more we do so, the less and less interested we become in this game, the storyline, and wasting our paychecks on RNG items in the cash shop.

Although being one of the largest communities in the game, the lore-fans are possibly the simplest to please. No matter how poor the content, balances, or rewards of a patch, the lore community is satisfied under one condition: the storyline of the update is of quality and fitting to previously placed lore. This condition arguably hasn’t been met yet.

Scarlet needs to be scratched. ASAP. Turn her into another mystery of the game’s universe like the disappearance of the gargoyles (although frankly I find the gargoyles more interesting than Scarlet) and do it in such a way to please the extremely small percentage of fans who do approve of Scarlet’s story. Unless of course the plan is to conclude her quite soon, which I just don’t see happening considering her story thus far.

I am not going to rant about all the flaws in Scarlet, I’ve already done that numerous times. Just understand that they’re there, and there’s way too many. I don’t understand how the same people that wrote the plot, quest dialogues, and backstory in Guild Wars could produce something such as Scarlet, but I’m really hoping to be proven otherwise.

There had been an hour long lore discussion in Blackgate Lion’s Arch about Ceara also known as Scarlet Briar. People think back in Omadd’s Laboratory, Scarlet saw that the Sylvari and the Pale Tree seed were actually from Mordremoth, the jungle Elder Dragon (Ronan found the seed from a cavern protected by plant monsters). The only reason that there are good Sylvari is because of the Ventari’s Tablet.

Exosferatu.2961:

There had been an hour long lore discussion in Blackgate Lion’s Arch about Ceara also known as Scarlet Briar. People think back in Omadd’s Laboratory, Scarlet saw that the Sylvari and the Pale Tree seed were actually from Mordremoth, the jungle Elder Dragon (Ronan found the seed from a cavern protected by plant monsters). The only reason that there are good Sylvari is because of the Ventari’s Tablet.

By Lyssa, that debunked theory is still propagating?

facedesks

Back when that theory was proposed, we still believed Glint broke free of Kralkatorrik’s control through an epiphany-inspired act of will, which made the idea that the Pale Tree could have done something similar through the inspiration of the Tablet vaguely plausible. We now know that Glint broke free through powerful magic enacted by the Forgotten – magic that Ventari has shown no signs of having access to, nor reason to use if he even had it. While it’s still plausible that there is some connection between the Pale Tree and Mordremoth, for that to be the case would require someone to have used the same magic (which can only be enacted in certain places, and all places known or suspected to qualify are in Orr) to free the Pale Tree or an ancestor.

It should also be noted that one of the other lynchpins – that sylvari being immune to dragon corruption is a hint that they already are - is debunked by the existence of beings corrupted by multiple dragons in Crucible of Eternity. If the sylvari are artificially created, it’s much more likely that it was the Forgotten that were responsible, infusing their anti-corruption magic into a species intended to fight the dragons.

Why does Ventari need to have this magic? The good Sylvari came from the Pale Tree which was nurtured by Ventari. They follow the doctrines of the tablet. How can someone be born to be naturally evil? Even if the Pale Tree was evil Ventari did not need such magic which the Forgotten posses to break it from its will.

Jeff.4680:

I don’t understand how the same people that wrote the plot, quest dialogues, and backstory in Guild Wars could produce something such as Scarlet, but I’m really hoping to be proven otherwise.

They were not written by the same person from Guild Wars 1. The person in charge of writing most of the living story and Scarlet is Angel McCoy. She is also in charge of making the game less “human centric”. How was this accomplish? By screwing up GW 1 and making them insignificant. At the same time, she favor the Sylvari race by adding that abomination of Scarlet into the game. Here is a interesting link in regard to Angel and how she is destroying GW 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview

As for Scarlet, there is too much to say about that kitten. Here is my response to that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/I-don-t-like-Scarlet-Briar/first

Scarlet is refuse.

Almost everything that they could do wrong, they did. Her delivery, her backstory, her motives and methods. The only thing they did right was hire a big name VA for her but they gave her trash lines as well.

The character itself isn’t complete garbage, it’s perhaps a 3 or 4 out of 10, but when you deliver a character with

“Heres my group of pirates that eeeeeeeverybody knows about because we’re so infamous but the player has never heard of until now. P.S. I’m evil and have airships and portals, you can read all about me in this novel on the website that nobody goes to.”

You are asking people to raise their bodies above you and evacuate waste upon you.

I don’t know who said it first, but its worth repeating. Scarlet is the Jar Jar Binks of Guild Wars. She’s despised. Not because of her character, but because she just plain sucks.

It would have been marginally better if it was Rurik showing back up looking for his sword.

i loved scarlet, unlike liadri, scarlet was awesome and lots o’ fun

I like Scarlet. She’s a complex character with a bit of lunacy thrown in, kind of like a female joker (darn that gift box she sent meee). I’m glad a-net didn’t go with a depressing type villain that we see in characters like Sephiroth or Loki. Those villain types are yawntastic, but Scarlet is unpredictable.

The concept of Scarlet, a villain who uses others and their technology to reach her goals, sounds appealing.
Scarlet, the character we have, is mostly an excuse to patchwork together alliance because….well we need to kill hybrids in small dungeons.

They could have given her one, maybe two groups she formed and been a pain in our sides. The main problem I have with her is every “mysterious force” or “shadowy evil” can be explained as “Scarlet needs something from these guys.”

ANet wants her to be our personal nemesis, fine I get that. The problem is she’s turning into a boring boogeyman. I still want a nemesis, that one person who I’ll want to kill off because they tweaked me the wrong way.
The Risen Commander who taunts me because of Forgal’s death is a better (short term) nemesis.

So I do like the idea of her, but not what I’m getting right now.
She should have kicked off two alliances, scared the Queen during her own celebration then sat back a few updates and let the lesser races take a swing at it on their own.

However I’m stuck with the fact that every alliance, every upcoming power, and every looming evil has her in the immediate background.
So I’m still going through to see when this ends and when ANet can give me more than one nemesis, when they can give me proper power blocs that I can attack and crush.

Exosferatu.2961:

Why does Ventari need to have this magic? The good Sylvari came from the Pale Tree which was nurtured by Ventari. They follow the doctrines of the tablet. How can someone be born to be naturally evil? Even if the Pale Tree was evil Ventari did not need such magic which the Forgotten posses to break it from its will.

So by that logic, I could take some branded eggs away from a nest, incubate them, make a tablet of rules for them, and when they hatch, they would be totally nice and not try to kill me.

The whole “Sylvari are dragon minions” thing has more evidence against it than for it.

Nilkemia.8507:

Exosferatu.2961:

Why does Ventari need to have this magic? The good Sylvari came from the Pale Tree which was nurtured by Ventari. They follow the doctrines of the tablet. How can someone be born to be naturally evil? Even if the Pale Tree was evil Ventari did not need such magic which the Forgotten posses to break it from its will.

So by that logic, I could take some branded eggs away from a nest, incubate them, make a tablet of rules for them, and when they hatch, they would be totally nice and not try to kill me.

The whole “Sylvari are dragon minions” thing has more evidence against it than for it.

A lion will totally betray a human who nurtured it since it was a cub. Yup, gotcha. Well, I guess my pets will betray my family and eat us alive even though we take care of them. I’m probably dead if you are reading this.

Sigh. Perhaps this thread will explain better than I can.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/On-the-Sixth-Elder-Dragon-and-its-corruption/first

Jeff, do you start a Scarlet thread every week? I think you may have a crush.

Qawsada.4251:

They were not written by the same person from Guild Wars 1. The person in charge of writing most of the living story and Scarlet is Angel McCoy.

I’m just glad the Guild Wars 1 writers didn’t reach a midlife crisis or something and go downhill.

DaShi.1368:

Jeff, do you start a Scarlet thread every week? I think you may have a crush.

I probably do, every time I find out that’s she’s ruining the story once again.

Stupid cat.

“Scarlet: What are your thoughts?”

Badly written lore breaking character. She is a weak form of spackling paste designed to fill in and connect a bunch of similarly badly written content.

I liked the living story before they introduced her, bring back the Consortium. Southsun may have had its problems, but at least were an original villain, not a copy paste of Harley Quinn with less personality.

How to fix the living story and by default make scarlet less of a drain.

Wall of text incoming, brace for impact.

So heres what i think we need to see happen:

No more scarlet for 2-3 months after her current toxic story arch is completed.

She’s “unpredictable” untill you see that everything is her doing and at that point its just another “bash 2 odd races who teamed up” scenario.

We need another lesser protagonist.

We still (to my knowledge) haven’t learnt why teq went from sissy to the beast he is now. I tell you what i would love to see something like Livia from GW1 coming back as some kind of champion of zhaitan because of her long exposure to the scepter of orr. Now shes back and rallying the undead under her banner for her own nefarious deeds, such as searching for the scepter again. This would give us something fresh, tie some of the loss ends from GW1 into something new and give us a break from scarlet. Speaking of Scarlet…

Scarlet needs to be evil, players need to hate her for her actions not her lack of detail

At present shes half Dr. doom and half joker. A genies hell bent on world domination with enough crazy to do things we should never expect. So far shes made some friends and killed a person who nobody really cared existed before hand. We have no emotion attached to her development here and that’s the issue.

We need a reason to dislike her other than" look a bad guy". She needs something more substantial. She needs to kill someone the players care about.
Now as stated we can’t screw with some of the more constant characters so far. That puts divinity’s edge, trahearne (don’t even joke about it, we all know they can’t) and a few select others out of the equation.

This leads me to everyone’s favorite duo. Kasmeer Meade and Marjory Delaqua. The player base has already expressed that they love them, they are memorable enough to have player’s get attached to them easily.

so lets set the scene here, a few months of no scarlet. We have some nice loss end tieing goodness from undead livia (i have ideas for this but this is not the thread for it) then the order of whispers gets a fix on scarlets lab. Shes been hideing in an abandon inquest base near rata sum, the very same lab she and her old professor Omadd tried to explore the eternal alchemy. Marjory and Kasmeer have already gone in (we know them even better from more LS events) and we are going to be going through a one time dungeon instance that gives ends with scarlet spilling the beans. She was behind the thaumanova reactor. Her transformation from Ceara to Scarlet is a direct link to why the reactor blew and creatures popping in and out of time and space are the after effects of the crazy storm of reality that went smashing around in her head. Now shes going mad about how shes perfected the process to do what is needed, she wants to take the idea of the nightmare court and instead of corrupting the silvari in the dream she wants to cut them off from the pale tree before they are even born. To do this she will bringing the dream from the mists into reality and put every silvari who will ever be born through the process of mind warping she went through.

Boss fight or w/e later we have to watch Kasmeer “die” and stop Scarlet by some Mesmer trickery. To keep the PG rating she would be popped out of existence in a bad kitten cut scene like the queens event. Scarlet would get away but her master plan in ruins would put her on the side lines again and we would be left with a hollow victory and a real reason to hate her.

Building from that it gives many other ways to take the story, you got a kitten ed Marjory who’s watched her friend/lover vanish and several organisations no longer under scarlet’s guide all seeking dominance over the others. Tyria would be safe for a time but scarlet would be out their waiting and plotting for another shot to strangle the pale tree…

That lady’s and gent’s is how i would make the living story better and by default fix scarlet away from the bland villain she is now and link in enough story points to keep people interested.

So yea that became a wall of text, my bad

who bothers to read ANY of this story? I mean really.

I just want to know what to do next to get the things that I need to get the reward they’re handing out. I could care less about the who and the why.

Am i missing something? people who don’t care about the story don’t like the story and want the story changed?

wut?

She strays the living story away from GW lore, and she gets old and boring really fast.

Once or twice a year I won’t mind her and even like her. Having the entire living store cater to her is boring.

The only interesting edge about her are the steam creatures. But they don’t even tell where exactly is she getting them from. Players can only speculate it’s from an alternate world dominated by some evil version of an asura PC based on a personal story.

Right now, the best solution to this can come up with is making her bite more than she can chew.

Something like she ending up summoning demons or some other creature from the mists, than promptly kill her or posses her and take over her operation, bringing back one of the past enemies of old in the process. For example, a greatly weakened Dhuum that just barely escaped the last great battle between the remaining evil gods Dhuum and Menzies against the Six, who has been lying low awaiting the comeback of the dragons and consuming the magic Zaitan had gathered to restore himself, taking over the undead in the process, and determined to take out the six out of wherever they seem to be hiding. But getting attacked also by whatever turned Scarlet into what she is now, getting a three-way fight between the pact, Dhuum’s demons and the original force that drove Scarlet mad, fighting to take down the dragons and get all that magic they have stored in their bellies for their own purposes.

You know. Something simple like that.

I really see only one way that, in the end, this whole Scarlet thing will sit well with almost everyone:

Scarlet ends up being Mordremoth’s Champion.

Exosferatu.2961:

Nilkemia.8507:

Exosferatu.2961:

Why does Ventari need to have this magic? The good Sylvari came from the Pale Tree which was nurtured by Ventari. They follow the doctrines of the tablet. How can someone be born to be naturally evil? Even if the Pale Tree was evil Ventari did not need such magic which the Forgotten posses to break it from its will.

So by that logic, I could take some branded eggs away from a nest, incubate them, make a tablet of rules for them, and when they hatch, they would be totally nice and not try to kill me.

The whole “Sylvari are dragon minions” thing has more evidence against it than for it.

A lion will totally betray a human who nurtured it since it was a cub. Yup, gotcha. Well, I guess my pets will betray my family and eat us alive even though we take care of them. I’m probably dead if you are reading this.

If your pet became (or was) a dragon minion, it WOULD betray your family to its master and eat you alive unless specifically commanded to do otherwise by its dragon.

The defining feature of dragon minions is that they are fanatically loyal to their dragon, first, last, and only, and unless their master desires them to be more subtle (and even then the long-term plan is generally destruction), they will by default destroy anything they don’t recognise as being a fellow servant of their master.

We see this in Edge of Destiny. We see a group of dragon minions swarming over and destroying the champion that they had been taking orders from just moments before – because Destiny’s Edge cut off the psychic signal it was projecting identifying it as a dragon minion. We have moments seen from the POV of a recently converted dragon minion, and how all that individuals previous goals and desires have been entirely subsumed by “serve the dragon”.

Being a dragon minion isn’t like being a cat or a lion that can be wild or (semi-)domesticated. if you’re a dragon minion, serving the dragon and destroying all who do not is hard-baked into your very nature. You don’t care how inspiring a philosophy may be – if it doesn’t come from the dragon, it’s just not worth paying attention to.

Freeing a dragon minion from this state requires powerful magic, magic which there is no evidence Ventari had access to.

Qawsada.4251:

Jeff.4680:

I don’t understand how the same people that wrote the plot, quest dialogues, and backstory in Guild Wars could produce something such as Scarlet, but I’m really hoping to be proven otherwise.

They were not written by the same person from Guild Wars 1. The person in charge of writing most of the living story and Scarlet is Angel McCoy. She is also in charge of making the game less “human centric”. How was this accomplish? By screwing up GW 1 and making them insignificant. At the same time, she favor the Sylvari race by adding that abomination of Scarlet into the game. Here is a interesting link in regard to Angel and how she is destroying GW 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview

You make it sound like Angel is the only writer on GW, and all her decisions are final. And if you read that entire interview, and the follow up since we complained so much, you would have read that the information she gave was approved by the other writers.

“I completely understand the outrage some of you feel, thinking that I’ve retconned things in a vacuum. I’d like to give you some peace of mind. Prior to my sending it off, the interview you read received a thumbs up from Bobby Stein, Ree Soesbee, Jeff Grubb, and Scott McGough. I do not work in a bubble, and if I’m releasing that much lore, then I’m going to do my best to ensure I’m getting it right. And it definitely feels like I’m sticking my neck out in the effort. No pressure. Hehe.”

All the writers approved that lore, and they are all using it. Angel is the only one getting flack for it, is because she was the one that gave the interview on the matter.

Erukk.1408:

Qawsada.4251:

Jeff.4680:

I don’t understand how the same people that wrote the plot, quest dialogues, and backstory in Guild Wars could produce something such as Scarlet, but I’m really hoping to be proven otherwise.

They were not written by the same person from Guild Wars 1. The person in charge of writing most of the living story and Scarlet is Angel McCoy. She is also in charge of making the game less “human centric”. How was this accomplish? By screwing up GW 1 and making them insignificant. At the same time, she favor the Sylvari race by adding that abomination of Scarlet into the game. Here is a interesting link in regard to Angel and how she is destroying GW 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview

You make it sound like Angel is the only writer on GW, and all her decisions are final. And if you read that entire interview, and the follow up since we complained so much, you would have read that the information she gave was approved by the other writers.

“I completely understand the outrage some of you feel, thinking that I’ve retconned things in a vacuum. I’d like to give you some peace of mind. Prior to my sending it off, the interview you read received a thumbs up from Bobby Stein, Ree Soesbee, Jeff Grubb, and Scott McGough. I do not work in a bubble, and if I’m releasing that much lore, then I’m going to do my best to ensure I’m getting it right. And it definitely feels like I’m sticking my neck out in the effort. No pressure. Hehe.”

All the writers approved that lore, and they are all using it. Angel is the only one getting flack for it, is because she was the one that gave the interview on the matter.

Remember something else too.
People like making scapegoats.
I quite frankly don’t envy Angel being in the position she’s in, dealing with an online community like this one. (Really, I suppose it’s not much worse then most other online communities. But obnoxious is still obnoxious.)

draxynnic.3719:

Exosferatu.2961:

Nilkemia.8507:

Exosferatu.2961:

Why does Ventari need to have this magic? The good Sylvari came from the Pale Tree which was nurtured by Ventari. They follow the doctrines of the tablet. How can someone be born to be naturally evil? Even if the Pale Tree was evil Ventari did not need such magic which the Forgotten posses to break it from its will.

So by that logic, I could take some branded eggs away from a nest, incubate them, make a tablet of rules for them, and when they hatch, they would be totally nice and not try to kill me.

The whole “Sylvari are dragon minions” thing has more evidence against it than for it.

A lion will totally betray a human who nurtured it since it was a cub. Yup, gotcha. Well, I guess my pets will betray my family and eat us alive even though we take care of them. I’m probably dead if you are reading this.

If your pet became (or was) a dragon minion, it WOULD betray your family to its master and eat you alive unless specifically commanded to do otherwise by its dragon.

The defining feature of dragon minions is that they are fanatically loyal to their dragon, first, last, and only, and unless their master desires them to be more subtle (and even then the long-term plan is generally destruction), they will by default destroy anything they don’t recognise as being a fellow servant of their master.

We see this in Edge of Destiny. We see a group of dragon minions swarming over and destroying the champion that they had been taking orders from just moments before – because Destiny’s Edge cut off the psychic signal it was projecting identifying it as a dragon minion. We have moments seen from the POV of a recently converted dragon minion, and how all that individuals previous goals and desires have been entirely subsumed by “serve the dragon”.

Being a dragon minion isn’t like being a cat or a lion that can be wild or (semi-)domesticated. if you’re a dragon minion, serving the dragon and destroying all who do not is hard-baked into your very nature. You don’t care how inspiring a philosophy may be – if it doesn’t come from the dragon, it’s just not worth paying attention to.

Freeing a dragon minion from this state requires powerful magic, magic which there is no evidence Ventari had access to.

^ Thanks for explaining it better than I could. I’m tired of that “Sylvari are dragon minions” theory constantly coming back even when there’s enough evidence to suggest otherwise.

RealFoz.2850:

…She was behind the thaumanova reactor…

If Scarlet is behind the Thaumanova Reactor, I will seriously cry.

The idea floating around of Scarlet being a minion of Mordremoth is just stupid. Scarlet uses technology. She clearly has a will of her own, and a reason for doing the things she does, even if it’s not known why right now. The elder dragons and their minions are forces of nature. Elder dragon champions don’t need technology, nor do they have their own desires other than in extremely rare cases (even then it’s arguable). They are corrupted, and have one purpose which is to serve their master.

If Scarlet ends up being a minion of Mordremoth that would not make any sense. If anything it would break the lore even more, and we all know she’s already done enough of that.