Guild Wars 2

I got many yellow weapons, piece of cake! Bring more!

BobbyStein.2315:

skullmount.1758:

Something like that was suggested in the first (iirc) CDI. I do kinda wish there was some way of polling people at the end, and not just on the forum (since that is coloured as you guys put it). Then it is kinda the own persons fault they don’t fill it out and give their feedback.

We used in-game polls during the beta events a long time ago. Not sure what it’d take to get them in the live client but it’s worth discussing internally, if only to weigh the pros and cons. I’ll talk with the other leads about it soon. No promises on the outcome, though.

I just wanted to do a little follow up on this one, I’m very interested in the idea of in game polling for new events. I understand no promises were made but I would like to know if there was any progress either way.

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

SaltyDave.7346:

I think a more conventional return to Guild Wars lore would appeal or at least be more digestible to a larger demographic.

Magic, Monsters, Gods and Politics might seem contrite, but I’m convinced that real human stories can be told under the pretense of the Fantasy world. Scarlet fails as a protagonist for simple reasons, she’s out of place, unneeded and force fed to us.

There is already a huge, epic, cataclysmic story of the dragons, warring nations and established heros and villans in the shipped game. Scarlet feels like Deus ex Machina of sorts, some sort of hashed up supervillain meant to tie together a bunch of separate ideas. She comes off as some sort of bad storytelling mechanic and everyone knows the character has no real place in the story, but can’t really put their fingers on why.

We spent months on Kiel’s storyline, and even Evon felt like a believable foil to Kiel by extension. If there had been a good moment for a plot twist these forgotten characters would have been ideal to expand on. Instead they feel like cheap forgotten throw aways, while we slog through more “Mechagodzilla” Living story updates.

What I’m trying to say here is, use the established lore and characters. Tell mature, real, human stories the players can relate to. I’d equate the current living story more with a bad “B” Movie than Tolkien. I feel the difference here is creating interesting, cool characters people can feel engaged with instead of writing in comic book supervillains.

Remember each, and every player in your game is trying to tell THEIR story in YOUR world. Often I feel like a nameless faceless character in someone else’s story when playing through story content. Just another militia in some vast army of other players. Having key characters recognize you and your involvement seems to help me connect with the characters.

This post needs a highlight in a building sized poster above ANet HQ’s main door.

AMEN TO BOTH! GW2 needs more of GW1!!!! This is our Living story in your world, enough making heroes and villains overshadowing players, enough with the Syvari Hype I like the race but it makes you look lazy, its always easy to write for something that really has no deep back story, after all they sprang out yesterday.
I want to fight Abbadon again, Dhuum and even the never shown Menzies the Mad with his true Nightmares not these mix mach things. I know I know Abbadon is Dead but come on, can someone tittle GOD OF SECRETS can’t have a secret to escape death? I mean Dhuum dint die when he was beaten by the reapers and Grenth and what we know of Menzies is that his at war with Balthazar, so he must be powerful? Lore wise we know these 3 Gods had Triad Pack of sorts to over through the 6 Gods, which there GONE (Perfect for evil gods to take over worship or make a revival comeback no?), some of the spirits of the wild are dead or so its believe (Perfect for an Chimera Abomination spirit to be born from the corruption of the Dragons and be their own threat). Infinite Coil Reactor, could it give rise to a new type of Artificial Hydra Dragon that could devour the others and be a greater threat! The dragons are consider a force of nature that consume all then goes to sleep and repeat the cycle but the world even thought is devoid of life endures, right? That’s what the lore indicates, so if a Fabricated Infinite Coil Hydra Dragon comes to life it could become a threat even to the Gods as its hunger could never be sated.

I could keep thronging ideas of opening the skies and oceans of the already beautiful Tyria, give players powers of flight, battle mounts or fast barefoot travel, new type of Dervish shape shifting profession to all races worship creatures/things, talk about the Zaishen Order what role do they play or will they be a New Profession, will there ever be bare hand combat weapon etc etc etc… Players have gives such awesome ideas… ideas that are original or improvements of things that HAS been successful in other games.

What I’m trying to say with this is that, with just mention these things among others lose ends in your Lore you have soooo much to write about bring forth, why give us this?!

Please Anet hear your players… Its cool to be original but its also cool to re-work the things that already have been successful and built on them. We believe in you.

Really? you want SAB to be harder going forward? What? do you want each stage to last 4 hours w/Tribulation mode difficulty a minimum? Developers, do not listen to elitists.

DCplayer.9415:

Really? you want SAB to be harder going forward? What? do you want each stage to last 4 hours w/Tribulation mode difficulty a minimum? Developers, do not listen to elitists.

But it’s so much fun, I did with a bunch of friends and all of us got to the end for our yellow skins, they barely log on the game so we did it on Saturday afternoon.

What is the problem with GW2 players? They act as if Tribulation Mode was the end of the world because they can’t… jump?!

Funny thing is, I’m one of those people that has enjoyed the current LS and didn’t really care for SAB. Difference is I didn’t come into the forums to complain about SAB, I just didn’t do it. Plenty of other things to do in the game if you don’t like certain content.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to answer your questions, Mr. Stein. As a creative professional, I was hoping for a chance to discuss LW and general GW2 stuff with the devs. I saw you guys put the Suggestions forum in the Archives section, so I was under the impression that you guys didn’t want any more feedback from the fans. I’m glad I was proven wrong.

Before I continue, I must say that folks on the GW2 staff will need to be trained on how to deal with the criticism. If there is one thing I’ve learned from animation school it has been this: Criticism is part of the American video game market. It is normal for gamers in this country to be passionate when giving feedback because they’re used to high end content. Plus it is normal for American gamers to compare your game to games from other companies as well as games from the past. It saddens me that the in-game devs are so scared of popping their dev tags because of harassment from the gamers. It seems to me that the in-game devs aren’t prepared to deal with the critiques. Another solution to this would be to have someone do the public relations stuff. They could answer questions, acknowledge complaints, and thank people for their comments. This is what other gaming companies do. I think alot of GW2 players just want to know that you guys acknowledge their comments & suggestions. When we fans don’t hear anything back, people assume you guys don’t care.

Now onto the questions…

Regarding Super Adventure Box — I actually missed doing Super Adventure Box during the last free trial period last autumn, so I would like to see it come back as an LW event just to try it out. If you do bring it back, there has to be a storyline associated with the event as well as a story within the SAB. You’ll also need more than 2 levels in SAB. Also, add both easy levels and hard levels. The easy levels would be for impatient and/or younger players. The hard stuff would be for adults and/or patient players with alot of time on their hands.

I recommend that the GW2 staff who work on SAB study the Nintendo games (past and present). The Nintendo company is an expert at taking the same old content and creating new interpretations of platform games. Like it or not, Mario and Zelda sell out after all these years because Nintendo keeps reinventing their gameplay content. They also add humor to the games. You will need to stay away from the whole damsel-in-distress thing though. Come up with a unique reason our heroes should go through SAB. Give my Sylvari characters (and other non-Asura folks) a good reason they should enter the SAB.

Regarding future LW content: I’d like to see more LW stories and gameplay content that relates to the Personal Story:

What happened to the Pact after Zhaitan?
—-Will the different POV of the Orders tear the Pact apart?
—-Did we really kill Zhaitan or did we just kill its’ son? (Let’s face it, the fight with Zhaitan was way too easy. He’s an Undead dragon. The undead don’t go down easily because they always regenerate due to their unholy abilities. The only thing that can take down the undead are the divine power of the gods. Last I checked Trahearne isn’t a god and he’s a necro. Necromancers can’t permanently end the life of the undead because their powers aren’t holy. They can only subdue the Risen for awhile. IMO, Trahearne’s ritual is a temporary band-aid on a bigger problem. That means it’s time to search for Dwayna, Balthazar, and the others. If the gods refuse to come back, the create Ascension quests that will grant god-like powers to the heroes.)

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

Finally, I thought Scarlet was going to be the GW2 version of Kefka Palazzo, the villain from Final Fantasy 6 (see http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Kefka_Palazzo for more info; Please play this game when you have time. Kefka is one of the most frightening FF characters in existence. The only one worse than him is Sephiroth from FF7.). Both Kefka and Scarlet have simillar mottos. Kefka’s motto was “Destroy, destroy, destroy!” while Scarlet’s motto is “Die! Die! Die!” Instead of going down a truely frightening, demonic path with Scarlet, your staff decided to make her into another dumb lettuce head on the level of Faolain. The only difference is that Faolain’s character was established long before we fought her in TA dungeon, so it’s easier to be more emotionally involved with her than Scarlet. Also, just because Scarlet created a giant Exorcist-styled robot with a “Call of Cthulu” mode, doesn’t mean that she is worthy of being a villain. At this point, she’s just another anarchist troublemaker. It’s sad to see a character with great potential go to waste.

Worse, I can easily predict that Taimi, the new Asura Destiny 2.0 member, is just going to kill Scarlet, then take over as the Big Bad. She’s just an Asuran version of Trahearne waiting to happen. Please don’t do this to us. One Trahearne was enough. -.-;;;

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

I understand. This is exactly why I often tell my teachers & fellow developers in my area that realism isn’t cost effective. It takes too long to animate the stuff successfully. Realism is great for movies and companies who can afford giant staff.

One cost-effective solution to this is the Baldur’s gate-styled story instances, like the one that is in Lion’s Arch right now.

Also the Anet offices are located in Bellevue, WA. There are two animation / video game schools within a few miles of them: Art Institute of Seattle & Digipen. They could always recruit students from the schools to help with the animated scenes. Would it be possible to get students to do the stuff or is that just too risky?

Finally, I’d rather play a high quality game vs a low quality game. Story is necessary for Guild Wars, and the devs keep inventing characters like Trahearne. One of the reasons the fern didn’t sit well with players is because the visual novel scenes didn’t allow the Western audience to connect to him. A movie-styled animated cut scene would of better conveyed the fact that he has PTSD as well as his complex mysterious, enigmatic character. Western players need to see his actions in order to better understand him. Planescape Torment had subtle complex characters. In that game, the devs used Baldur Gate-styled cut-scenes to convey the plight of characters like the Nameless One and Fall-From-Grace. As a player I could emphasize with the demonic band of heroes because I saw their actions played out on screen.

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

How can we have less story? We barely have any story with each update, you can cram a lot of of info into a short cut scene, let’s say under one minute.

We would also get less updates over all? You mean we could get thought out cut scenes that better explain what’s going on and because of that we’d get less update spam? What’s the downside here? Sounds like we are creeping away from quantity and into quality where do I sign up for that?

MastaNeenja.1537:

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

How can we have less story? We barely have any story with each update, you can cram a lot of of info into a short cut scene, let’s say under one minute.

We would also get less updates over all? You mean we could get thought out cut scenes that better explain what’s going on and because of that we’d get less update spam? What’s the downside here? Sounds like we are creeping away from quantity and into quality where do I sign up for that?

so instead of fixing the gameplay you want to make it a cinematic interview?

sorudo.9054:

MastaNeenja.1537:

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

How can we have less story? We barely have any story with each update, you can cram a lot of of info into a short cut scene, let’s say under one minute.

We would also get less updates over all? You mean we could get thought out cut scenes that better explain what’s going on and because of that we’d get less update spam? What’s the downside here? Sounds like we are creeping away from quantity and into quality where do I sign up for that?

so instead of fixing the gameplay you want to make it a cinematic interview?

Nope. Balance between story line and game play. This is the challenge when it comes to RPGs. The audience has to be emotionally involved with both the PC and the major NPCs. Legend of Zelda (A Link to the Past and later incarnations), the earlier Final Fantasy games (FF6, FF7, FF8, and FF9) and ChronoTrigger do this beautifully. GW2 is modeled after Baldur’s Gate and Planescape Torment. Both of those Western RPGs balanced the game play and the story line.

Another important part of RPG is the pace of the story. The pacing was done really well with these earlier games, which is why these games eventually became the standard in the industry. Without the existence of these games, there would be no World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, or other modern RPGs we know today . In the video game classes at my school, teachers often tell the students to play these games if they want to create RPGs. Playing and studying previous video games is part of being a video game designer.

There is no need to re-invent the wheel when it comes to RPGs. We just have to pimp the ride.

kta.6502:

sorudo.9054:

MastaNeenja.1537:

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

How can we have less story? We barely have any story with each update, you can cram a lot of of info into a short cut scene, let’s say under one minute.

We would also get less updates over all? You mean we could get thought out cut scenes that better explain what’s going on and because of that we’d get less update spam? What’s the downside here? Sounds like we are creeping away from quantity and into quality where do I sign up for that?

so instead of fixing the gameplay you want to make it a cinematic interview?

Nope. Balance between story line and game play. This is the challenge when it comes to RPGs. The audience has to be emotionally involved with both the PC and the major NPCs. Legend of Zelda (A Link to the Past and later incarnations), the earlier Final Fantasy games (FF6, FF7, FF8, and FF9) and ChronoTrigger do this beautifully. GW2 is modeled after Baldur’s Gate and Planescape Torment. Both of those Western RPGs balanced the game play and the story line.

Another important part of RPG is the pace of the story. The pacing was done really well with these earlier games, which is why these games eventually became the standard in the industry. Without the existence of these games, there would be no World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, or other modern RPGs we know today . In the video game classes at my school, teachers often tell the students to play these games if they want to create RPGs. Playing and studying previous video games is part of being a video game designer.

There is no need to re-invent the wheel when it comes to RPGs. We just have to pimp the ride.

i know all about game design, i am just saying that when designing a game the first thing that needs to be considered is the balance between play time and story.
when you constantly have cinema’s after every single boss fight or only have about 5 minutes of play time till the next cinema is trying to shove the story in your throat then the game becomes annoying and ppl just leave the game.
the other way is also true, giving your all the time in the world to play the game but barley showing a story is bad for the game and it creates a vacuum that makes the game feel pointless.

another problem (the one that GW2 suffers under) is what you do after all that, i can understand that making a story in an MMO can be hard and must take quite long to entertain the players till the next big thing but what you do after the story is critical.
they try to answer with LS’s, the problem with LS’s is that it only adds a bunch of achievements but not much story content.
another problem is that it becomes more and more exclusive for max level characters, this really needs to stop because it makes things way to one sided.

just look at what we currently have, it’s nothing more then a zerg fest spamming DPS without any story or skill needed.
they could just as much add a bunch of wurm bosses in lonar’s pass and be done with it, there really is no difference there.
i would’ve done it better and make the story more engaging but i am just one man, Anet on the other hand is only encouraging the zerg spammers and simply ignore the RPG element.

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This! I came here to fight dragons, for an epic story. Not to play super mario.
I don’t mind having SAB in the game, but it should never have priority over the things that really matter like, you know, Elder Dragons? The thing this game was supposed to be about.

BobbyStein.2315:

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, SAB is a wonderful idea and direction of content to go with. I personally think the SAB should (eventually, at least) become its own separate zone/world/entity/etc within GW2. With a variety of different content difficulties for many that participate. Rewards are more colorful and amazing the harder one progresses.

Honestly, the “Worlds” within it are pretty fun dungeon like experiences, and would love to see a hub for each world as an open, explorable zone for those who enjoy it. There is plenty to work with there, and it should periodically be released with more content till its final state, then have Motto make it go “Live” for everyone on Tyria.

I don’t think this should become a monthly event as it grows, but each time it does you should eventually come closer to making it a permanent fixture to the universe.

Next

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

This is a common complaint, and one that we’re very aware of. We’re discussing a variety of ideas that will allow players more flexibility in experiencing the Living World content, but we’re not ready to announce the details since the designs aren’t finalized yet.

I don’t believe it Anet. As an avid GW2 player and achievement hunter I have observed this game become more grind than anything else. PVP has become a minimum of a 2 hour daily event with pve being at least an hour and a half. My achievement points are now being dictated by other people with circumsatnces well beyond my control – eg. This Scarlett Marionette dodge achieves. I can dodge like a pro, help my section kill the warden, and have some other group wipe that I cannot help because we are sectioned off. Now the chain isn’t severed and I don’t get the achievement though I did everything in my power to. Then you state you are looking into more flexibility in experiencing the LW while your last breath was “gotta hope everyone is pro at this to earn an achieve”. Please, be honest for once ANET.

BobbyStein.2315:

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

This is a common complaint, and one that we’re very aware of. We’re discussing a variety of ideas that will allow players more flexibility in experiencing the Living World content, but we’re not ready to announce the details since the designs aren’t finalized yet.

I don’t believe it Anet. As an avid GW2 player and achievement hunter I have observed this game become more grind than anything else. PVP has become a minimum of a 2 hour daily event with pve being at least an hour and a half. My achievement points are now being dictated by other people with circumsatnces well beyond my control – eg. This Scarlett Marionette dodge achieves. I can dodge like a pro, help my section kill the warden, and have some other group wipe that I cannot help because we are sectioned off. Now the chain isn’t severed and I don’t get the achievement though I did everything in my power to. Then you state you are looking into more flexibility in experiencing the LW while your last breath was “gotta hope everyone is pro at this to earn an achieve”. Please, be honest for once ANET.

Another thing I would like to point out that irritates me; LW events alter the world itself, but limits the content in which can be enjoyed post-update.

For instance, the “dungeon” of Frost & Flame, I enjoyed it, it should have been flushed out more beyond a story of the month and kept around, with rare pre-reqs for rare gear/skins and so forth. Instead, it was restricted to little over a month and granted no casual time players to really enjoy. Make more of these “Events that will change the world forever” more than cosmetic. I like how the tower left a crater, but I want more than just looking at a giant hole in Kessex Hills and say, “Wow that must have been huge.”

Seriously, I understand some rewards should be limited to the event which it is tied to, but make more things more… Rewarding to the players that play the game, not just the ones that live it.

Gundail.7594:

I think a more conventional return to Guild Wars lore would appeal or at least be more digestible to a larger demographic.

Magic, Monsters, Gods and Politics might seem contrite, but I’m convinced that real human stories can be told under the pretense of the Fantasy world. Scarlet fails as a protagonist for simple reasons, she’s out of place, unneeded and force fed to us.

There is already a huge, epic, cataclysmic story of the dragons, warring nations and established heros and villans in the shipped game. Scarlet feels like Deus ex Machina of sorts, some sort of hashed up supervillain meant to tie together a bunch of separate ideas. She comes off as some sort of bad storytelling mechanic and everyone knows the character has no real place in the story, but can’t really put their fingers on why.

We spent months on Kiel’s storyline, and even Evon felt like a believable foil to Kiel by extension. If there had been a good moment for a plot twist these forgotten characters would have been ideal to expand on. Instead they feel like cheap forgotten throw aways, while we slog through more “Mechagodzilla” Living story updates.

What I’m trying to say here is, use the established lore and characters. Tell mature, real, human stories the players can relate to. I’d equate the current living story more with a bad “B” Movie than Tolkien. I feel the difference here is creating interesting, cool characters people can feel engaged with instead of writing in comic book supervillains.

Remember each, and every player in your game is trying to tell THEIR story in YOUR world. Often I feel like a nameless faceless character in someone else’s story when playing through story content. Just another militia in some vast army of other players. Having key characters recognize you and your involvement seems to help me connect with the characters.

+1 I just don’t feel moved by the current Living Story. It’s a little boring and it does not feel real at all.

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

ReV.6097:

I miss SAB more than most of the content we have had in 2013. They’d be insane to not add it each year.

Ok, Do you guys realize how sad it is that most of you think SAB is one of the most entertaining content? I mean, not sad because of you, it’s understandable, it’s sad because it’s not what i expected of the LW, are we playing GW2 or some kittenty platformer? Please, release serious content and help the story advance "What is the plot of GW2: Dragons, more than 1 year and 0 dragons at sight, it’s ok, it’s ok, scarlett, the bazaar, Karka and stuff, but PLEASE

YEAR 2013:

SUPER ADVENTURE BOX—> April and September

DRAGONS—> (the real story, the logo of guild wars is a GOD kitten DRAGON) NONE

It’s ok to release SAB once in a while but it shall not become a recurring patch, like “omfg we don’t know what to do this month…- Well let’s make a SAB 4.0 they love it”
This is sad, LW means huge things happening, new areas, new characters, new stories and misteries… and so far most of the LW has been Minigames, grinding and repetitive bosses whitout a fair reward. I,ve been doing marionette for 7 times or so, and i’m just getting bored. Also i’ve opened all the chest just to see what happens when you open the console and it’s just disappointing, i thought i would be able to continue, maybe some kind of “mission chain”, but nope, it just look a pitty escuse to bring A big robot and a worm to the world so you can just repeat it once and again.

A monthly patch which i can complete in less tha 2 days and then wait for the next month to see if the story goes somewhere o keep farming and farming and farming untill you achieve some decent reward, because as far as i’ve been playing i’ve gotten none.

Just IMO

hedix.1986:

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

Totallly know that feel bro

I would love to explore more of the world… I want new maps, and many of them!
Open up the way to Elona! There’s also plenty of room left to the North! I’d love to explore the areas of the GW1 expansions! I’m nostalgic about GW1 (it’s my most played PC game so far) so please feed my nostalgia! ;-)

Combine new maps with interesting storylines and new (permanent) dungeons and bossfights! Add more huge boss fight events like Triple Trouble etc. but combine it with new settings and maps! (Elder Dragons!!!)

Also, there was an announcement that after the LS, something “big” would be coming up that “changes the world” … I just hope it’s not WoW Cataclysm like because quite frankly that would be lazy. Why changing the existing worlds landscape etc. when you could simply expand it to the North/West/East/South? And besides that, isn’t a sort of cataclysm exactly what you did after the tutorial in GW Prophecies? ;-)

Oh and please add A LOT more fractals and get crazy with them! With the Fractals of the Mists, you built a setup where you could use almost any theme, any idea, any setting etc. that springs to mind and use it as a mini-dungeon, which is awesome! You could build an Realm of Torment fractal or let the players relive the tutorial world of GW1, you could even transform the players into Dredges or any other race (like in the Charr Fractal) etc. … you have unlimited possibilities with the fractals: use them! The big advantage here is that new fractals do not need to be tied to the main storyline AT ALL! The Fractals are the place to go crazy with your ideas without damaging the integrity of the main world and lore!

And last but not least: even if I am a player who only plays one character, it could be the right time to add one or two new races into the mix … there were always rumors about the Tengu becoming a playable race and getting access to the Tengu City etc … I like the idea! Do something similar! Add a new race with new maps and cities to explore! You could even use the way you added the Asura in EotN to introduce a totally new species into the game.

My 2 cents

Cauthon.1780:

hedix.1986:

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

Totallly know that feel bro

You do know MMO fair tends to borderline the same monotonous grinding solely focusing on stories, right? SAB has been a nice break from that, and it only came out twice, like a breather from the stories around us. And it gave new mechanics to play with, as optional to the player, to experience. Something different to do in familiar ways, it is a refreshing break when needed. What I do not understand is why many feel compelled that this was shoved down our throats all year, declaring it some kind of kittenization on their goals.

MMOs are well more enjoyed when it has varied experiences like this. Not something along the line of the same experiences with each story following the Dragons and those that hunt them alone. SAB shows this, it shows not EVERY SINGLE SOUL is out there hunting Dragons, one Asura was still focused on making a interactive “game” for Tyria. That’s how MMO stories evolve, not just one linear goal with a set of folks and spearhead the entire story one direction.

The new and current story arc, I will agree, feels out of place. Unless there is something pretty large behind it all, it feels like it wants to be that annoying character in every RPG you cannot stand cause it just detracts from the goal at large. Why -IS- there a giant marionette mucking up the world, which is also apparently tied to a creator that somehow assassinated royals AND enslaved many races… That’s quite a bit of stuff happening that the Elder Dragons aren’t taking advantage of, or at least annoyed by. Something should have came around in the story now that would allude to something bigger, but hasn’t. Which makes us, the players, feel detached from Tyria’s grand scheme when we first entered. Instead we’re facing off what appears to be a Teen Titans story when we all came for Justice League. It’s a failure (not a big one, but one no less) of execution if they planned something bigger with Scarlet.

Paraka.9724:

Cauthon.1780:

hedix.1986:

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

Totallly know that feel bro

You do know MMO fair tends to borderline the same monotonous grinding solely focusing on stories, right? SAB has been a nice break from that, and it only came out twice, like a breather from the stories around us.

(…)

The new and current story arc, I will agree, feels out of place. Unless there is something pretty large behind it all

Ok, i’m not saying SAB is bad content in fact as you say is good to take a rest from the LW and give some versatilty to the game, the problem is that it’s getting recurrent, i just say it because people are begging for a new SAB, and that seems quite sad, i mean shouldn’t they prefer a good quality story instead. Ok they need SAB to take a rest… OF COURSE they need to take a rest from boring patches.

You say that " MMO fair tends to borderline the same monotonous grinding solely focusing on stories" well why in hell it has to be a monotonous grinding activity??

The grinding would be worthy if once again as you say “The new and current story arc, I will agree, feels out of place. Unless there is something pretty large behind it all”

but it doesn’t seem like that, it seems like an excuse to bring a giant robot boss and a worm just so you can grind a little bit more, end of it. Ok maybe now i’m just getting pessimistic, but, just my experience from last patches whithout any logical continuity (ALL OF THEM IMO).

My point is: it’s ok to have SAB, but don’t make of it a priority, their priority should be improve the story and make something that really matters, and plz don’t say they are out of ideas, kitten, there are 5 dragons or so out there.

If we focus in SAB they will focus in SAB cause that’s what we want, and i thing that’s not what we want now, SAB can wait.

SAB, Bazaar and the Molten Dungeon were the only moments so far in the entirety of the Living Story that have stuck with me.

And for the record, I pray you are not using player congregation numbers and achievements hunted for your “metrics” on the success of these additions…

To put it simply: a lot of these additions were simply seen as new things to farm (Achievement Points and Champ boxes / loot) and not actually fun, exciting, or overly enjoyable as an experience.

The only thing I was actually happy playing (purely for the enjoyment, not needing achievement dings), were the 3 I mentioned, the remainder just brought out my inner achievement hunter and gold chaser (which is bad)

hedix.1986:

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

SAB is an action/adventure/RPG mini-game, and it works fine. Regardless. The developers have no sway in a story, they need proper writers for that….if you are fine with more scarlet, then keep your current mindset.

Cauthon.1780:

You say that " MMO fair tends to borderline the same monotonous grinding solely focusing on stories" well why in hell it has to be a monotonous grinding activity??

The grinding would be worthy if once again as you say “The new and current story arc, I will agree, feels out of place. Unless there is something pretty large behind it all”

but it doesn’t seem like that, it seems like an excuse to bring a giant robot boss and a worm just so you can grind a little bit more, end of it. Ok maybe now i’m just getting pessimistic, but, just my experience from last patches whithout any logical continuity (ALL OF THEM IMO).

I am not trumpeting SAB like others, but I do feel like the majority of the players who are praising feel this way for a reason. They enjoy that content cause it was so different outside the other fare we’ve gotten. Which is fine, but like you said, I would prefer it to be added in bits till it is eventually “complete” and Moto decides to release it, sub-world with exploration of a regular zone and all. However, I don’t think this should be priority.

And I liked the Molten Alliance arc cause it felt alive underneath it all. It felt like the thorned group became advantageous while we’re all fighting the Dragons, it felt like the world was expanding in the middle.

After the few arcs, it turns into this race of who’s more trouble, Elder Dragons or Scarlet’s thrown together army. One which doesn’t sound like it should be that huge, but as it is now, it feels that way. As I said before, it doesn’t seem like this arc has much behind it that is alluding to something bigger. Which makes it feel tacked on and not grown from the game.

And the Wurm is fine as it is, I am glad there is a “Open World Raid” that will essentially remain after this update, as it is just another type of experience out there. But I do hope the rewards would be continual and encourage players of all lengths of play keep coming back. However, I don’t think this tactic should be added willy-nilly in the future.

Funny… SAB 2 was much more creative, more designed and acoustically better. I loved it and was for me the best update ever. Some people didnt enjoy that but many others did. On my side i dont enjoy other contents like the invasion, first and second halloween and the updates early 2013.

People who are saying that sab 2 was bad have no clue. They dont even give some points or statements. It must be pain for the developers who spent more creativity and time in SAB2 and having bad feedback in the forum.

In some point i can understand why others didnt like it. It was to….
…challanging
…long
…less rewards
and didnt come like nowhere.

Personally i loved it but some other updates … not. I hate people saying that the devs should leave SAB und do other updates. Other people have other opinions and it isnt the majority. Many people who play sometimes gw2 or dont visit the forum, enjoy it as much as i do.

Zietlogik.6208:

hedix.1986:

Captain Seyo.4285:

SAB ISNT STORY. Its just some fun optional quest. And I bought this game to play GW2, not a game boy emulator.

This.
I understand that some people like SAB, but tbh it is wasting developers’ time that could be spent on something more significant – like writing a believable story, creating new zones and dungeons, actually exploring GW1+2 world. If I wanted to play a silly platform game, I would play it. Instead, I bought an RPG/adventure MMO.

SAB is an action/adventure/RPG mini-game, and it works fine. Regardless. The developers have no sway in a story, they need proper writers for that….if you are fine with more scarlet, then keep your current mindset.

Huh? I definitely do not want more Scarlet, which is why I said that nothing should be distracting developers from focusing on a believable story. GW2 started off as a really interesting setting that left a lot of unanswered questions from GW1, the main GW2 storyline, Destiny’s Edge etc. There are plenty of GW1+2 mysteries and areas that haven’t been made accessible yet. Revealing all of that content will take a lot of time. So instead of throwing in a random-villain-alliance-spoils-an-RNG-drop-festival and other content barely connected to the lore of the existing game, devs should be exploring new zones and do at least some progress on the lore, with so many loose ends around.

While SAB was fun as an April’s Fools joke, it’s a game inside a game that’s being developed despite the main game lacking in features (story, zones). The reason most people enjoyed it was probably because it was a break from grindy, disconnected story of LW and the Scarlet nonsense. So the state of the main game should be addressed before developing mini-games.

sorudo.9054:

MastaNeenja.1537:

lordkrall.7241:

kta.6502:

Regarding future LW content
Also, make the future content PERMANENT with animated cut scenes. Ditch the visual novel storytelling style that was used too heavily in the PS. There is a reason visual novels don’t sell well in the West: They don’t allow the characters to convey body language, facial expressions, and actions that heavily used by English speakers

The issue with that is that animated cut scenes take a rather massive amount of time and resources to create, which would either mean much less story in each update, or less updates overall.

How can we have less story? We barely have any story with each update, you can cram a lot of of info into a short cut scene, let’s say under one minute.

We would also get less updates over all? You mean we could get thought out cut scenes that better explain what’s going on and because of that we’d get less update spam? What’s the downside here? Sounds like we are creeping away from quantity and into quality where do I sign up for that?

so instead of fixing the gameplay you want to make it a cinematic interview?

Nope, I don’t want the same rehashed to-dos encapsulated in an poorly produced story on a bi weekly schedule. I would rather see them take their time produce meaningful content and give us QoL updates in the interim. In other words flip the frequency of the two. More QoL less LW.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion but I wished SAB remained an April’s fool recurrence and not elsewhere. I’d rather explore new themes than SAB although I did like it.

quality > quantity that is all

I just came here to tell people to stop talking down on people who like easy content.