Guild Wars 2

Caithe.

If you’ve done the story, that’s all I really need to say.

There’s no kittened kittening way that I’d let her come with me to find that egg. And yet, we do. Right into a Mord stronghold. And then, when everyone gets separated, she’s somehow NOT attacked? And we’re forced to let that slide?

For the love of every god you can name, ANet! What the foxtrot?

If the plot requires the player character to be downright dirt stupid, rethink your plot! She could have followed us at a distance, or slipped some sort of magical tracking device onto one of us. Just letting her tag along, especially when she’s acting a bit odd already, is just unforgivably stupid.

I agree. The first thing that came to my mind when Caithe wanted to join was that she would turn rogue or something. I was quite disappointed to find out I was right. That was more than predictable. :P

I saw it coming the moment I read the flavor text below the “Start episode” button.

Caithe’s tone in her dialog only set off my alarms even more. There was a clear change in her tone, she was being even more shifty than usual, and since when does she call us “boss”, instead of “Commander”, or whatever phrase she would normally use?

Still, I had hoped it’d be a red herring, or that the traitor would turn out to be someone else, or that Canach had somehow tagged along and taken the egg for Anise, or even having Mordremoth mess with our heads a bit, tricking us into off the Master or something. But nope.

And the worst bit—that’s the end. That is NOT how you do a cliffhanger. The Pale Tree giving us that vision before passing out was a better cliffhanger. It at least made sense, and at the same time left us with hope that she might recover.

Caithe’s betrayal though? I saw it coming, and yet I couldn’t do anything about it!

“Theres no time to explain.”

Really Caithe? You had the whole trip there to explain! You’ve had a year or two to explain!

Is it shocking? Yes. Does it make any sense? Effing no!

So apparently Scarlet was seemingly right about Caithe not being trustworthy, and she’s seemingly turned evil. I’m not sure which one makes me angrier.

And you know we’re gonna want answers to that right away, or at least start looking for answers immediately. Nope, gotta wait two more weeks. Better check on the Pale Tree in two weeks, cause you know, we kinda left the whole “she’s out cold and maybe dying” bit hanging.

Argh. Unfortunately, the painfully obvious betrayal and the shortness of this update have left a sour taste in my mouth, and have possibly ruined the last Destiny’s Edge character I kinda liked.

Yep saw her backstab coming ten miles away. I was like “Really? You’re the only member of Destiny’s edge that want’s to come and help… Really now?” The second she said so Iw as like “Nope you sit your kitten down and let me and my group handle it.” But saddly, the story forced her on us.

That was not Caithe. My 2 cents.

Underdark.3726:

That was not Caithe. My 2 cents.

That is possible, but that still leaves the question of why we would let “her” come with us when she’s a sylvari that’s acting oddly.

I found it very predictable. I was suspicious from the beginning of the episode and would have told Caithe not to follow me (why wasn’t this an option anyway…just have Caithe secretly trail us), but I just shook my head and sadly accepted it as the latest in a string of instances where my character is forced to act in a way other than I want her to act. We’re forced to treat Canach badly, even though I would prefer not to. We’re forced to side with Phlunt against Taimi, even though I wanted to tell him go to the Realm of Torment and leave Taimi alone. Now we’re forced to accept Caithe along, even though we know we shouldn’t.

Underdark.3726:

That was not Caithe. My 2 cents.

Well, I don’t know about Caithe, but that was most definitely not my ele. Or, if it was, she was being mind-controlled or somebody slipped her a mickey or something.

Saw it coming from a mile away. The text in the intro and logan’s letter already gave it away.

At the start of the episode when caithe followed me to rox and the others I just knew she was eavesdrop and that something was wrong. I feel that there have a dozen or so hints that she can’t be trusted. Why was anyone suprised that she stole my egg.

Anyone else found that how she escaped was ‘weird’ and not really caithe like? I mean, an (now ex-)friend npc move so fast? I don’t buy it. oO
(yes ex-friend cause nobody steels my food… I mean our dragonegg :p )

Not only was this plot twist given away in the first few minutes, but the dialogue after Caithe disappears is ridiculously bad.

Rox “The Master of Peace is dead.”

Oh, thanks for telling me that, I didn’t notice, Rox. However, my character’s reply was even worse – “Oh no. And Caithe is gone. And so is the egg. I swore…”

And it continues just as brilliantly.

Marjory “I saw Caithe run off with the egg.”

Are you sure, Marjory? Because no one else saw that. Nope, no one at all…

Its unfortunate that the story has to turn the player into a dunderhead to fit their narrative. I don’t mind some predictability but can you reduce the ‘Captain Obvious’ dialog just a tad?

She fooled me of atleast 1k gold,.I was going to sell it on TP :S

The books in the Durmand Priory told us she was corrupted… and yet for some reason we invite her on a top secret mission, let her grab the egg, and just stand there while she runs away with it…

I just… what…

Sylvari, man… every time we turn around, some Sylvari is wrecking the place.

If that turns out to have “not been Caithe”, then that’s some really bad writing.

I think it was foolish of us to believe that the writing would improve after the Scarlet debacle. I don’t think I’ve been so irritated by a game since I played Tales of Graces F.

I don’t know if it was just my instance, but when I fought the last boss, Caithe did nothing during the fight… I’d say put on your tin foil hats, but seeing the current state of things…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The books in the Durmand Priory told us she was corrupted… and yet for some reason we invite her on a top secret mission, let her grab the egg, and just stand there while she runs away with it…

I just… what…

No. Faolain tried to corrupt her in Edge of Destiny with some kind of poison, but was tricked into removing it. Ever since then, she’d shown no signs of being corrupted (aside from her utterly ruthless nature when it came to the Court, but for good reason) And the bad future showed her choosing Nightmare, but that’s been prevented.

While she still could be corrupted, she really shouldn’t be as susceptible to it as she was during the time before killing Zhaitan.

Still, with the Pale Tree down and possibly dying, perhaps Mordremoth is strong enough to corrupt even her at this point…still, aside from the shifty acting, she wasn’t talking to herself or being crazy like Ceara or Aerin were…either Mordremoth’s getting more subtle, or Caithe is “better” at hiding it.

Well, here is a crazy thought. I just went back to the first part of the new chapter to check out any additional dialog and stuff and I noticed Caithe not even standing with the others when you arrive so ofc I went ahead and talked to her and she's like "Don't mind me." and I swear that she sounds completely different. Not to mention obvious. Anyway, could it be Anise in disguise maybe? I mean she’s gone Sylvari before and the way she sent Canach after everyone? My other thought was Faolain ofc.

Nilkemia.8507:

“Theres no time to explain.”

Really Caithe? You had the whole trip there to explain! You’ve had a year or two to explain!

Is it shocking? Yes. Does it make any sense? Effing no!

So apparently Scarlet was seemingly right about Caithe not being trustworthy, and she’s seemingly turned evil. I’m not sure which one makes me angrier.

I’m currently pretty sure, that the answer is simply “Mommy asked me to. No, she didn’t say why”. Because, seriously, that would fit with the whole Pale Tree’s policy of keeping everyone in the dark, even her own most trusted children.
Of course, the most likely end result would not be “go look for caithe and ask for an explanation”, but rather “go, bring us more flamethrowers, we’re going to pay the Tree a visit she won’t forget”.

It wasn’t done so subtley, hence it being predictable. That was sad.

edit: nevermind, theory debunked mostly because I forgot Caith did say there was no time to explain, so she still had her sanity.

But the episode should’ve ended after visiting the Pale tree, but assuming that it was cut off before that, then chances are the egg will be used to revive the tree probably.

NerdyMike.2695:

Spoiler Thoughts...

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Seeing her, and her following us didn’t bother me too much. As soon as she was there, and seeing her act “strange”, I suspected that she would do what she did. What bothers me is that the episode ends with us NOT going to the Pale Tree to ask her “WTH is up with Caithe?!” That is was irks me. Was that TOO much for this story?! Because, let’s be honest – this episode was extremely short.

I would assume we’re not going to the Pale Tree just yet because: Cliffhanger.

I don’t reckon we’ll see more Living Story until after Wintersday now? Which means ArenaNet got themselves a lovely little cliffhanger to keep us talking for the next 6-8 weeks.

I may be wrong. Wintersday came at the beginning of December last year, though.

Doing this on MY Sylvari was weird dialog options at the end….when talking to Rox.. makes me think that there is something afoot not sure if Caithe is doing it to betray us at all…. But she obviously doesn’t think we can handle the situation.

They usually announce LS breaks in advance, so I don’t think we’re at that point just yet. And Halloween started up a bit later this year than last year, so it wouldn’t be crazy to think Wintersday would follow suit.

As for the whole Caithe thing… I don’t really see a problem with it as far as the in-game story goes. I mean, yah, the little blurb on the LS summary completely gives it away (especially once you actually start playing and notice Caithe suddenly tagging along). I’m baffled they even put that blurb in there. Way to ruin it there.

But as far as our characters in-game know, there’d be no reason to be suspicious of Caithe. Far as our characters are aware, only those that cut themselves off from the Pale Tree are susceptible to Mordremoth’s influence (or at least that’s the theory of other NPCs in-game), so there’s no reason to believe her corrupted.

As for being the only one who didn’t get captured in the maze… I just attributed that to her being a Thief. She was able to get away using her skills where the others couldn’t. The only other character other than Caithe who could probably have avoided getting caught was Kasmeer, and she probably wouldn’t do so anyway due to not wanting to abandon Marjory and the others.

I’m still not really thinking she’s corrupted anyway. She’s shown no signs of it. I’m of the opinion that she’s either working with someone else or working on her own to some unseen (and not evil) end.

OR MAYBE… Caithe is corrupted by mordremoth!!! Scarlet 2.0 confirmed!!!

I’ll bet you you’re all wrong and what you think is not really what happened.

Electro.4173:

But as far as our characters in-game know, there’d be no reason to be suspicious of Caithe. Far as our characters are aware, only those that cut themselves off from the Pale Tree are susceptible to Mordremoth’s influence (or at least that’s the theory of other NPCs in-game), so there’s no reason to believe her corrupted.

Our characters have seen the vision of a possible future where Caithe agrees to fall into Nightmare. She’s not the most stable of sylvari, we already know this. Mordremoth has shown a tendency towards corrupting sylvari (so far as we can tell), and now the Pale Tree may not be able to help protect her.

For Caithe, or ANY sylvari, to start acting oddly in the Silverwastes is a sign that they’re at risk of corruption and not to be put into important positions. Seeing those obvious signs and taking her with us anyway is the height of stupidity.

Zaklex.6308:

I’ll bet you you’re all wrong and what you think is not really what happened.

Oh, I think very few of us doubt that there’s more going on here than what it looks like. That’s not the problem. The problem is that for the plot to get to that point, our characters had to do something astoundingly stupid, with no way to avoid it.

If I want a story where idiot characters do stupid kitten that risks getting them and everyone around them killed, I’ll read Twilight.

She either got corrupted by Modremorth or by the Nightmare Court. And yes we should given more options how to move forward instead of just clicking away the text.
I didnt wanted her on the mission from begin because she clearly acted suspicious. She didnt really help in combat, was sneaking around and at the boss fight she just stood there doing nothing.
Hell, why didnt they gave us an option to put a bullet or a load of pellets into her head before she could escape?

And of course she has gone, completely gone, in two seconds. We’ve given up on finding her immediately. We’re not going to ask Eir where might have gone. We’re not going to use all the Pact soldiers to keep an eye out for her. We’re not going to question Canach who’s been with her recently. We all just assume she can go wherever she wants in the middle of two enemy armies, unlike the Master of Peace who’s dead on the floor. Time to speak to the Pale Tree, of course.

NerdyMike.2695:

Spoiler Thoughts...

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Seeing her, and her following us didn’t bother me too much. As soon as she was there, and seeing her act “strange”, I suspected that she would do what she did. What bothers me is that the episode ends with us NOT going to the Pale Tree to ask her “WTH is up with Caithe?!” That is was irks me. Was that TOO much for this story?! Because, let’s be honest – this episode was extremely short.

Wasn’t the Mother Tree still weak since the Shadow of the Dragon’s attack? I don’t think she’d be in a position to answer questions at that point.

Apparently we’re going to look into that…we kinda left that hanging.

/sarcasm
Isn’t it obvious? The predictable conclusion and poor simple writing must be there otherwise new players may get confused.
/end sarcasm

I don’t understand why they came out of the gate so strong, but stopped for lunch a quarter of the way through the race. Perhaps the next instalment will be better, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

The best thing is when you read this at the beggining of the chapter:

http://i.imgur.com/rqYASze.jpg

Underdark.3726:

That was not Caithe. My 2 cents.

Valid thought – we know that mesmers can make illusions to look exactly like someone, if they’re familiar enough with that someone.. We haven’t heard from Faolain for a while, and people have been noting the lack of Nightmare Court in the west…

Stooperdale.3560:

And of course she has gone, completely gone, in two seconds. We’ve given up on finding her immediately. We’re not going to ask Eir where might have gone. We’re not going to use all the Pact soldiers to keep an eye out for her. We’re not going to question Canach who’s been with her recently. We all just assume she can go wherever she wants in the middle of two enemy armies, unlike the Master of Peace who’s dead on the floor. Time to speak to the Pale Tree, of course.

Caithe is supposed to be an uber wilderness survivalist, the Master of Peace is not.

When part 3 comes out I fully expect people to make reference to the fact that they have been looking out for Caithe but nobody has seen her (or that she has just been spotted and thus begins the next bit of the story). I am also sure we will talk to the rest of DE about her (although why you think Eir specifically might know where she has gone is beyond me).

Facts based on my Opinions
-Anise’s secret mission for Canach was to kidnap Caithe and keep her safe somewhere.
-Anise disguises herself as Caithe and infiltrates the events of the story.
-Anise seizes her only chance to steal the egg and get away before she can be stopped.
-Anise has a complex plan that no one would understand until its all done.
-The Eternal Alchemy is confusing.
-Taimi is not annoying. She is cute and funny.
-Rylock comes back from Valinor as Rytlock the White, much more powerful than before.
-The end of this story arch is going to be a scene depicting either:
A) our first full look at Mordremoth and all his magnificence
B) the egg beginning to hatch
3) the death of a main cast member. (Marshal Trehearne would be a good choice)
-The Original Destiny’s Edge is falling apart, making room for a new Dream Team, Braham, Rox, Taimi, Marjory, and that other chick.
-This last chapter was disappointingly short.

What I would like to know is not so much about Caithe, but about Logan. That letter he sent was just WEIRD. When did he get so chummy? Is Logan not Logan??

you guys don’t even know what’s really going on or what her motive really was, which is the point of the events. the writers obviously left the clues on purpose because they meant for the player, not the character you control, to suspect something’s going on with caithe. come on people, give the writers some credit

Sarie.1630:

NerdyMike.2695:

Spoiler Thoughts...

hide spoiler

Seeing her, and her following us didn’t bother me too much. As soon as she was there, and seeing her act “strange”, I suspected that she would do what she did. What bothers me is that the episode ends with us NOT going to the Pale Tree to ask her “WTH is up with Caithe?!” That is was irks me. Was that TOO much for this story?! Because, let’s be honest – this episode was extremely short.

I would assume we’re not going to the Pale Tree just yet because: Cliffhanger.

I don’t reckon we’ll see more Living Story until after Wintersday now? Which means ArenaNet got themselves a lovely little cliffhanger to keep us talking for the next 6-8 weeks.

I may be wrong. Wintersday came at the beginning of December last year, though.

From an article on the Living Story on Zam’s website. “Therefore he (Meelad Sadat, Head of PR at Anet) didn’t want to say how many episodes are going to be left in the season, but did say that starting with the Halloween episode they are back on their two-week cadence up through Wintersday on December 16th before going on holiday break. As to what is going to happen after that, Meelad said that they will keep players informed of when there will or won’t be a patch, like how they announced the Halloween and start of each half of Season 2 well in advance.”

Scarlet was right
Scarlet for president of Tyria woohoooooo
Lol…

Totally random theory on the events here:
1. Master of Peace was a White Mantle agent, who sabotaged the Zephyrites to steal the egg and bring it to the Mursaat. Possibly was always bad, possibly a Mesmer replaced the true Master of Peace during the Festival of the Four Winds.
2. The Egg, in its limited awareness of the danger it faced, cried out for help. The only receptive mind was Aerin, as a soundless Sylvari, but he was driven insane by the dragon; still, he singlemindedly sought to rescue it from the Master of Peace after the crash.
3. The Shining Blade discovered or suspected Mantle involvement in the crash, Canach was operating in the Silverwastes to gather information on the Master of Peace’s movements.
4. Shining Blade spies learned what the player discovered in Glint’s lair (Canach already knows about it when you speak to him)
4. Having gained Caithe’s trust, Canach eliminated her (presumably not fatally) so that Anise could step into her role, and exploit the Pact Commander’s trust of his old war buddy to accompany the player to find the Master of Peace and recover the Egg.

The real question here is actually when will Wintersday patch hit? Because if it’s right at the start of December, 2 weeks from now, then that means the LS will come back in January and only then will we know for sure what was in Caithe’s mind…

It was really very obvious, that she would backstep us this time. Even some month ago it was clear, that at some point in the future, since Scarlet tould us, she has a dark secret. But well, at leeast you can say, that since our PC has fought so often with her against different enemies, it is a bit understandable to trust her, even if she acts wiered.
But there are much more problems with dumb decisions in this episode. The first one is quite obvious: Why the hell is the PC running around and telling both groupes, that there is a dragon egg? Both gruopes where out in the open camp, surrounded by a ton of random NPCs. If it is a secret go and tell them in a closed building, or in the wild, where noone else is.
The second big problem: Why the hell is Caithe so dumb? She waits until the final fight is over to steal the egg. These kind of things should be done while we’re fighting. But well, you couldn’t make a small cutscene in that case… And she should try harder to hide her backstabbing plans next time. It was too obvious. But well, since the other charakters are dumb enough….
The third problem: After seeing Caithe backstabbing you our PC acts really dumb in saying, that Caithe might be helping… Just… wow… And even if the story would go this way, there is absolutely no excuse to think that in this moment.

Underdark.3726:

That was not Caithe. My 2 cents.

That was Caithe. My 2 cents

I’ve always liked the darker side of sylvari – Scarlett, Faolin… and Caithe has her own secrets, too. It looks like they know more and are sure in what they have to do. This kind of motivation is much more appealing to me than whiny blondies, overgrown lonely kids and unsatisfied mommies with whom we are forced to fight against the force which can wipe out the whole Tyria.

Wasn’t it Caithe that asked/mentioned that Eir was staring at the norn (Brahm her son). I inferred that Caithe didn’t know Brahm was her son. Which I thought odd. Would Caithe not know that?

I usually skim through the “lore”, since I could give a rat’s patootie…but I thought I saw some conversation like that.

Khorrax.2108:

Not only was this plot twist given away in the first few minutes, but the dialogue after Caithe disappears is ridiculously bad.

Rox "The Master of Peace is dead."

Oh, thanks for telling me that, I didn’t notice, Rox. However, my character’s reply was even worse - "Oh no. And Caithe is gone. And so is the egg. I swore..."

And it continues just as brilliantly.

Marjory "I saw Caithe run off with the egg."

Are you sure, Marjory? Because no one else saw that. Nope, no one at all...

Oh my god, I know really?!? That was just so stupid! Really annoyed me alot!
Talk about extremely stupidness of them all.. >.<’

misterman.1530:

Wasn’t it Caithe that asked/mentioned that Eir was staring at the norn (Brahm her son). I inferred that Caithe didn’t know Brahm was her son. Which I thought odd. Would Caithe not know that?

I usually skim through the "lore", since I could give a rat’s patootie...but I thought I saw some conversation like that.

Ya, I also thought that was really odd. First I was like ’’Eir is looking at a male Norn? - Her son, Brahm perhaps Caithe?’’
Then she was like ’’Ohh noo, she is staring at him at the flirting-looking way.’’
Like wtf? I didn’t really get that so I were looking around to find some special Male Norn that Eir might has been staring to..
Caithe, you’re really making yourself to look dumb. It was her son, godkitten it!!!

I thought everyone knew that aswell, but seems like they don’t, lol. Atleast not in this case for Caithe. If you really are the real Caithe, of course...

Here’s another idiot ball. The Master of Peace wanted to smuggle his shiny dragon egg through a skritt lair! Wow he must have been glad when he saw Mordrem there instead.

Stooperdale.3560:

Here’s another idiot ball. The Master of Peace wanted to smuggle his shiny dragon egg through a skritt lair! Wow he must have been glad when he saw Mordrem there instead.

ROTFLMAO

It is a dangerous thingy, that brain of ours, if we switch it on. :-)

Greetings.

Dangerous vines coming from the maguma region, erupting from the ground.

The Master of Peace takes the Dragon Egg steadily North West towards Mordromoth rather than heading south east towards the `floating´ city of Rata Sum. Not only that, he heads underground where the vines are coming from!

Logic is not powering this plot and never has, just idle whim. I think it a bit much to ask of the writers to change their ways at this point, the Idiot Plot is what they know and love.