Guild Wars 2

So pretty much a female character who pretty much had has no story development is killed for as a plot device in this LS. She is involved in only one mission, and then is sent to her death off screen in the next mission. Pretty much this character was created to die for the A-team to feel emotion, but for me I feel nothing because she has as much development as the thousands of npcs I kill everyday. This is unlike the mentor you get in your PS who you actually develop a relationship with, and then dies in a heroic way. Personally I do find this type of story extremely lazy and somewhat offensive.

Spoilers!

It was obvious this would happen the moment Belinda said “I’m going to Brisban, things have been happening”.

But truth be told, it got me by surprised. I thought she would die when we met her during the first mission. Then I thought she would die right when we got in Fort Salma. Then during the fight.
Of course, when the duo disappeared, it became obvious she was finally dead (in one of the weirdest position…)

I think it could have made for a shocking cutscene, witnessing Belinda ensnared and killed by the vine in front of Marjory. Instead we just get the usual pantomiming.

Sure, she was a short-lived character. But “offensive”? Seems melodramatic.

So this kind of a thing had a name? I always called it sword art syndrome. Anyways yes, I agree. If youre going to bring in a character and make them seem important " a unique weapon skin being a key point here " you really shouldnt be killing them off before some kind of development. Especially in the first 10 minutes. Ive had more emotional connection with a hot dog. I looked at that cutscene, though oh for kittens sake, then stopped caring. The writing has improved in some areas, but in others its plummeted.

Oh the drama for our key investigator, nao it’s personal buiznezz!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge

Extra in Red Shirt in Fridge.

Hey! Maybe now she doesn’t need her sword anymore?
But then it disappeared from the wardrobe …

GNAAAAAH

To be honest, I did get attached to Belinda (more than Kasmeer en Marjory anyway) due to the extra dialogue in the first mission. I suspected something was gonna happen to her but not this…and I certainly didn’t like having to move on.

But as far as stories go, this LS release was actually good. I’m expecting Anet to do something sneaky and underhanded next though…so far they always did when I started to like the game again.

Ayrilana.1396:

Spoilers!

My sentiments exactly Dr. River Song.

I was going to create the same thread; she was killed off far too quickly. I felt no emotion when we find her dead, in fact, it seemed quite predictable she would die there. I personally think they should have built up more relationships for this character rather than just writing her off in the second episode.

So I wasn’t the only one who thought of refrigerators. Seriously, you can’t just murder a lady anymore.

That was really awkward. I had to stare at the screen in a mix of amusement and disappointment. ANet’s writing has improved a bit this season, but the death was painfully obvious and pointless.

Let’s see if I can quote myself:

Nilkemia.8507:

Sigh. I was a bit surprised at first, since I expected them to just have her killed off right away instead of just at the end if they were going to do that. Then I just felt like “Why?”

I mean, did they really feel obligated to kill somebody off for no good reason?

This is even worse than the rampant deaths in the Personal Story, where characters at least got interesting or had some potential before getting killed off, or at least went down fighting to save others (Forgal/Sieran/Tybalt, rest in peace). Belinda didn’t even get to that point.

After the intial surprise wore off, I was just left with a “Meh” feeling. Oh well.

Well, good to know.

Anet have been doing that kind of cheap writing tricks since the original personal story., and it have nothing to do with the character being female or not.

*Introduce new character
*Make him / her stand out for 1-2 missions
*Kill them off for cheap emotional shock

belida was on the 1st LS too like the tower of nightmeres

It’s because killing a biconic is going too far. They couldn’t kill Marjory so they tried to find some other way to hook some emotion into it. You don’t know Belinda well but you know her sister. You’re supposed to feel empathy for Marjory, I’m sure many people won’t care though.

As far as her being a woman, most of the NPCs introduced last season were female. If you kill off an NPC from last season, chances are it will be female. If Marjory had brothers instead of sisters, it would have been a man in a refrigerator. Belinda was a Seraph, many other Seraph died – Elder Dragons are dangerous. Part of having female characters that can be respected in combat roles in the story means having female characters that will die in combat roles. Belinda wasn’t a helpless victim, she was a soldier that died in battle.

Part of the story is the encroaching threat of these dragons. What games often do to make the threat tangible is to show death early on when the main antagonist becomes clear. See Mass Effect 3 and that little kid you meet right at the start, who comes to personify the main character’s survivor guilt, as just one example.

This is a common thing and it happened in a lot of the personal story before, yeah. Lots of characters only existed to be interesting and then die. I thought this was likely to happen to Belinda the first time we saw her – main character’s siblings are prime targets, especially when she was talking about wanting to ‘spend more time’ with her sister, how Kasmeer really wanted to get to know her better, and she was shipped off to a very specific location. It all pointed clearly to her taking one for the team and portraying the severity of the situation. How else are we going to feel like this dragon needs to be dealt with?

Despite seeing it coming, it’s not like I’d complain about it. It’s just part of storytelling. it happens a lot. Characters exist to serve a purpose and sometimes that purpose is that they eventually die and to get the threat level to become personal.

Not that you can’t criticise the execution of it, but the whole thing doesn’t really fit Women In Refrigerators. That applies when the death is casually used to bring the bitter manpain. This was a believable loss to a /group/ to illustrate an oncoming disaster. And it’s more applicable when the female character being killed is one of precious few – not so in the Living Story where the majority of the cast are already female. She’s not getting booted off this mortal coil so a dude can look angsty, I’m pretty sure. If this thing attacked and nobody died, I think people would complain that everyone’s invincibility was not very believable.

Random dead NPCs scattered around already. There was no need to add her to the list. I already got the hint that these things are dangerous. Her death just felt put in to make drama where none was needed.

I cheered when I saw her corpse, because maybe then I could finally snatch that sword of hers off the body when the lesbian couple turned their back.

I was disappointed though, didn’t get the sword…

I was expecting her to die far later in the story once we start to confront Mordremoth with the Pact.

That may have provided a more impact since that would have allowed them to have Belinda be part of the team for a bit longer and actually get to know Belinda’s character. Sadly they needed a something to make one of the team members emotionally unstable so they picked Belinda for the Death Flag.

Her death was premature. We should have got to know and like her first. Now it’s not really shocking for us.

ThiBash.5634:

To be honest, I did get attached to Belinda (more than Kasmeer en Marjory anyway)…

Yeah, she was way hotter.

Majory is ugly.
Annoying.
Pretentious.
Needy.
Weak.
A loser.

Tell me, what’s there to like in a woman like that?

Bellinda is attractive.
Has a real job with actual payroll.
Is a soldier, slugging it out for her nation.
Clearly takes care of the irresponsible careless mutt of the family.
Takes care of her mom.
Wears armor.
Has Canthan sword.
Strong.
10/10 would collect 250 Superb Charr Idols for

This happened all the time in the personal story, especially during the Orr part. See: greatest fear plotlines, priory’s plan plotline, etc. Your mentor was an exception.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

ThiBash.5634:

To be honest, I did get attached to Belinda (more than Kasmeer en Marjory anyway)…

Yeah, she was way hotter.

Majory is ugly.
Annoying.
Pretentious.
Needy.
Weak.
A loser.

Tell me, what’s there to like in a woman like that?

Bellinda is attractive.
Has a real job with actual payroll.
Is a soldier, slugging it out for her nation.
Clearly takes care of the irresponsible careless mutt of the family.
Takes care of her mom.
Wears armor.
Has Canthan sword.
Strong.
10/10 would collect 250 Superb Charr Idols for

Yep, a character should be judged on her looks alright. And not to mention a character’s worth is measured by hotness level.

The death of Belinda is perfect. I was not sad for his death (This is not a main character) but i was sad for Marjory.

Valar Morghulis!

Was I the only one who had hoped something a little more dramatic for Belinda? I mean, the first story instance you visited I LOLed my kitten off when Belinda was there for 3 seconds only to be send back to Fort Salma. But I thought her behaviour towards Kasmeer was very interesting. (I had hoped For Marjory to die and for Kasmeer and Belinda to find one another). Either way.. it was a cheap death, could’ve been more interesting to have her around a little longer.. and obv you will get your sword, they dont just make a unique sword skin for an NPC that dies an episode later.

Yeah when I recognized she was dead I was like “eh, whatever, another corpse to the pile”.

They should’ve at least showed us how she died with a cutscene. We just see her hanging from a vine. lol.

Thankfully I won’t have to hear her voice again.

Great voice actor, wrong character.

CharrGirl.7896:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

ThiBash.5634:

To be honest, I did get attached to Belinda (more than Kasmeer en Marjory anyway)…

Yeah, she was way hotter.

Majory is ugly.
Annoying.
Pretentious.
Needy.
Weak.
A loser.

Tell me, what’s there to like in a woman like that?

Bellinda is attractive.
Has a real job with actual payroll.
Is a soldier, slugging it out for her nation.
Clearly takes care of the irresponsible careless mutt of the family.
Takes care of her mom.
Wears armor.
Has Canthan sword.
Strong.
10/10 would collect 250 Superb Charr Idols for

Yep, a character should be judged on her looks alright. And not to mention a character’s worth is measured by hotness level.

you just got ultra tricked/rused/maddened

Pretty anti-climatic to just find her hanging on the vine – at least there could have been a cutscene to document what happened to her. I agree that her death was premature, if we had gotten to know her better maybe sympathy or empathy with Marjory would have been greater.

Lévis.5489:

Anet have been doing that kind of cheap writing tricks since the original personal story., and it have nothing to do with the character being female or not.

*Introduce new character
*Make him / her stand out for 1-2 missions
*Kill them off for cheap emotional shock

Except this time they forgot step step 2. And to be honest, is there any characteristics to Majory to make her female, beside her voice and character model. If she was replaced by a male character, the script would not need to been changed. Otherwise if we replaced Kasmeer with a male, it would be extremely funny to have the exact same dialogue. This is why I conclude that the decision to have Majory female is so that Anet could capitalize on immature male fan service.

I’m actually happier that she’s killed off-screen while we’re too busy. I mean, what’s the alternative? We, who have slayed dragons, just kinda stood there and watched a vine grab her and crush her? So heroic.

Had enough “Well, where the hell was I when this guy was getting killed” in the personal story. At least now there’s a REASON why we didn’t save her.

dkspins.4670:

Pretty anti-climatic to just find her hanging on the vine – at least there could have been a cutscene to document what happened to her. I agree that her death was premature, if we had gotten to know her better maybe sympathy or empathy with Marjory would have been greater.

Shouldn’t have happened here IMO. Should have had her get badly hurt so she’d go back to Divinity’s Reach, with Marjory in tow. Maybe even had her there for the next story instance. Hell, they should have kept her and built her up, only to have her get killed in the final chapter while defending the Queen or something.

Have it happen right in front of the PC and the group, to be followed by a boss fight. Beginning of said fight, Marjory summons like 10 Bone Fiends, Kasmeer summoning 10 Illusions, and you suddenly getting Fury and a 25 stack of Might. Make it feel like YOU ARE kittenED OFF AS HELL.

Technically maybe but this happened fairly frequently to both genders in the PS .

She also isn’t one of the few (or only) female characters in the story who is then being victimised to provide motivation for a male character while doing little else which is why this trope gets problematic. Its not “oh no, a women died” its “women are only in this story to play victim or LI and have their death focussed on for cheap emotional impact”.

She was stuffed in fridge yes, but in this game there is no reason make this a gender thing. I’m sorry if I’m unnecessary chastising you and this in’t about gender you just used the gender specific rather than generic label because of other reasons.

Shadowmoon.7986:

So pretty much a female character who pretty much had has no story development is killed for as a plot device in this LS. She is involved in only one mission, and then is sent to her death off screen in the next mission. Pretty much this character was created to die for the A-team to feel emotion, but for me I feel nothing because she has as much development as the thousands of npcs I kill everyday. This is unlike the mentor you get in your PS who you actually develop a relationship with, and then dies in a heroic way. Personally I do find this type of story extremely lazy and somewhat offensive.

I don’t think it’s meant to make you feel for Belinda’s death as much as for Marjory’s loss.

I want people to die Game of Thrones style.

Shadowmoon.7986:

And to be honest, is there any characteristics to Majory to make her female, beside her voice and character model. If she was replaced by a male character, the script would not need to been changed. Otherwise if we replaced Kasmeer with a male, it would be extremely funny to have the exact same dialogue. This is why I conclude that the decision to have Majory female is so that Anet could capitalize on immature male fan service.

The point is that the standard hard-boiled detective is male. Delaqua’s personality, voice, and actions fit that trope well when originally introduced. It was only later that she and Kasmeer hooked up (and that’s also a trope: opposites that spend too much time together under dangerous conditions fall in love).

I think this sort of killing is good because it isn’t meant for us, the player, to feel the sense of loss. This is a loss for Marjory, and one that we’ll explore with her in future episodes. This is intended as a move to increase our understanding of Marjory, and to grow closer to her through that period of pain in her life. This will also help Kasmeer and Marjory develop further depth.

Shadowmoon.7986:

So pretty much a female character who pretty much had has no story development is killed for as a plot device in this LS. She is involved in only one mission, and then is sent to her death off screen in the next mission. Pretty much this character was created to die for the A-team to feel emotion, but for me I feel nothing because she has as much development as the thousands of npcs I kill everyday. This is unlike the mentor you get in your PS who you actually develop a relationship with, and then dies in a heroic way. Personally I do find this type of story extremely lazy and somewhat offensive.

OP has misunderstood the woman in refrigerator trope.

What makes the refrigerator trope harmful is how it uses a heroine’s death to further motivate and add emotional depth to a male protagonist, and perpetuating the trope of heroines being more helpless, more susceptible to brutalization in stories, as well as merely existing for the character development of a male character.

In Entanglement, all that happens is that JORY loses her sister. Belinda’s death suggests nothing about the brutalization of women, and the nature of her death is no different from all the other people (including men) you see strangled like Foreman Abe, random male civilian in Prosperity, Drooburt, etc.

Belinda died a brave warrior doing her job, and her death served as a harsh reminder of what kind of threat an Elder Dragon brings. Throughout the personal story Anet has made your character endure all sorts of deaths (from both sexes) in order for you to feel the pains of loss/sacrifice and all that jazz. Belinda’s death is no different.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Shadowmoon.7986:

And to be honest, is there any characteristics to Majory to make her female, beside her voice and character model. If she was replaced by a male character, the script would not need to been changed. Otherwise if we replaced Kasmeer with a male, it would be extremely funny to have the exact same dialogue. This is why I conclude that the decision to have Majory female is so that Anet could capitalize on immature male fan service.

The point is that the standard hard-boiled detective is male. Delaqua’s personality, voice, and actions fit that trope well when originally introduced. It was only later that she and Kasmeer hooked up (and that’s also a trope: opposites that spend too much time together under dangerous conditions fall in love).

I’m pretty sure there’s absolutely nobody in the world that could create a character that isn’t attributable to some kind of trope, because I’m pretty sure that everything is a trope.

Shadowmoon.7986:

So pretty much a female character who pretty much had has no story development is killed for as a plot device in this LS. She is involved in only one mission, and then is sent to her death off screen in the next mission. Pretty much this character was created to die for the A-team to feel emotion, but for me I feel nothing because she has as much development as the thousands of npcs I kill everyday. This is unlike the mentor you get in your PS who you actually develop a relationship with, and then dies in a heroic way. Personally I do find this type of story extremely lazy and somewhat offensive.

All thing considered it’s hard not to kill female, if most of primary and secondary characters are female. Could her death be treated better? Maybe. Could she got better developement? Gods in Mist, yes.But she still got better sendoff than 80% of now-dead character of both sexes. And if she was more developed I think i would cause even bigger uproar.
I may repeat somebody but she wasn’t only victim and her death was not a just a device to move plot forward(if anything it made us stop to understand terror of Elder Dragons). It doesn’t count as “Women in Refrigerator”. Anet goes out of it’s way, not to introduce such tropes.
Also I really liked Belinda and was genuinely sad after her death.

Ryan.9387:

I want people to die Game of Thrones style.

A ‘Green Wedding’ of Marjory and Kasmeer you say ?

At least it would make an interesting premise rather than ‘’ Oh while you were fighting this mini-boss, a Vine got her with no warning or indication. You just have to accept and move on…and try to feel anger but we know it is hard to care about a character that barely had any screen time. ’’

I am more sad about her potential than her actual death really. Also this event has the dreaded possibility of turning Jory even more redundant since she already had the plot of her daggers from a child ghost , with E , hell even surviving Scarlett’s attack at the end of Season 1 and now her sister dies as well..

My god, even for a Necromancer , that much angst can’t be good for her character…which means it can’t be good for us either.

I feel like she was supposed to be the Agent Coulson to our Avengers. I looked at Belinda and was like “huh, her leg rag dolling looks uncomfortable”

I will not lie….seeing people hanging from thorn vines….and still being constantly choked even after…makes Morde seem 100x worse than the Dragon of Death, as if Morde is killing people and continuing to do so because he likes it.

Ryan.9387:

I want people to die Game of Thrones style.

Can’t wait for Marjory and Kasmeer to send out RSVP for nuptials.

I’m a little torn.
Yes, I think Belinda’s existence was just a plot device. The irony of the The Dead End bar showing up unannounced. She didn’t belong and I got a “twinning” vibe from her and Marjory. They were too much of the same. One of them was going to have to go.
However, the fact that they went did the trope with a female character was disappointing. While this removes Marjory for a bit, (can she be absent for at least one episode to mourn and not gloss over that she lost her sister.) there is an opportunity for Kas to stand on her own as she did against Scarlet.

citypigeon.6358:

Shadowmoon.7986:

So pretty much a female character who pretty much had has no story development is killed for as a plot device in this LS. She is involved in only one mission, and then is sent to her death off screen in the next mission. Pretty much this character was created to die for the A-team to feel emotion, but for me I feel nothing because she has as much development as the thousands of npcs I kill everyday. This is unlike the mentor you get in your PS who you actually develop a relationship with, and then dies in a heroic way. Personally I do find this type of story extremely lazy and somewhat offensive.

OP has misunderstood the woman in refrigerator trope.

What makes the refrigerator trope harmful is how it uses a heroine’s death to further motivate and add emotional depth to a male protagonist, and perpetuating the trope of heroines being more helpless, more susceptible to brutalization in stories, as well as merely existing for the character development of a male character.

In Entanglement, all that happens is that JORY loses her sister. Belinda’s death suggests nothing about the brutalization of women, and the nature of her death is no different from all the other people (including men) you see strangled like Foreman Abe, random male civilian in Prosperity, Drooburt, etc.

Belinda died a brave warrior doing her job, and her death served as a harsh reminder of what kind of threat an Elder Dragon brings. Throughout the personal story Anet has made your character endure all sorts of deaths (from both sexes) in order for you to feel the pains of loss/sacrifice and all that jazz. Belinda’s death is no different.

I guess the gender aspect can be ignored since the same can happen to both.

Overall i am not really moved by Belindas dead myself. She was introduced as a means to an end, nothing more and since that has happend so often allready that it is just disgusting.

It was basicly:
- “here i am” at the end of S1 (she was apearently at the ToN, but too much in the Background), where she was nothing more then a 90-Comedy-Suprise-Guest/Hint-to-next-season
- Beginning of S2E1, for us to be reminded: Majory has a sister and they like each other etc. and she looks up to her and wants to help, etc. Just to give her some character
- Near the end of E2, where we only heard her and then she was dead…

She was a disposable character, only to get Majory taken out of the “leader” equation (She was more or less our rival there) and into the backseat, so others can thrive (which is pretty obvious).
- The PC can now lead
- Kasmeer can grow in self esteem/expand her new “gift”
- Taimi can go all out Asura/Scarlet Fangirl, till she takes one step too far
- Braham… can grow some balls and tell Rox to stuff it
- Rox… can do something? I mean, beside playing mother for Braham…
(Yes, i am exagareting here. However now the “only” competent character is away)

It was something needed, however i am very suprised how many people are applauding the writing here… We met her three times, she contributed nothing then exposition and was ended up as a tool to further another characters developement.

We never really interacted with her. Most of her lines were with Majory.
The only thing we can do here, is feeling sorry for Majory.
She lost a family member.

Death itself is a bad thing. I am not playing it down. However written like that, she is not feeling like a living character, but a means to an end.

Killing her off so early just shows how disposable she was for the story.
This was a bad dead. In my eyes it was disgusting.
Killing her offscreen did not help.

I get the feeling that they really WANTED to do a full cutscene including the death but it just wasn’t in the episode’s timeframe and animation budget.

Shame really. It would have been a bit more impactful to see her die, with the PC sprinting back to the fort in vain after killing the boss outside and watching it happen. At least then it would have felt like we were in a small part involved in the event.

edit: Basically, what I’m saying is put me in more cutscenes. Actually, put me in all the cutscenes. They seem more important when I am in them.

Anet, meet George R.R. Martin. He’ll show you how to do this the right way.