Guild Wars 2

I find that offensive!

..nah, just joking. =P

I really don’t get all the fuss. Well, maybe some of it.

Marjory/Kasmer (Marmer? Kasjory? What is their Hollywood name?) mostly felt rushed, and there is definitely that perception of constantly being all over each other, while I have to feel like a pervy voyeur for watching.

As for Taimi, I loved what she was, at first. I mean, c'mon, who wouldn't love a spunky girlchild historian who travels back into the past to study/stop Scarlet and her plans to empower an elder dragon? But this squee she has for Scarlet is fifteen shades of guild by association. We didn’t like Scarlet, and we don’t like seeing Scarlet portrayed in any kind of a positive manner, so when Taimi fawns over her, it’s really aggravating.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and removed, and therefore the quoted portion has also been removed.]

It doesn’t matter how much Taimi is a typical Asura, a child doesn’t belong on the battlefield. If they decide to make something happen to Taimi because she is in this group I will won’t care at all because I can’t be invested in a story that is so completely out of touch.

And a child would not be allowed to decide what happens to the effects of the greatest humanoid threat in recent history.

If a soldier (who is not even a child) had discovered Hitler’s secret bunker, it wouldn’t matter if that soldier was a prodigy – he wouldn’t be allowed to say “I’m going to stay here and examine all these artifacts”. He would be required to report it to the authorities who would appoint an experienced and trusted expert to examine them.

Djinn.9245:

…He would be required to report it to the authorities who would appoint an experienced and trusted expert to examine them.

Unless Taimi has no one to report to. That’s why she hooked onto Braham so quickly in Season 1. She needed someone to get help. Thusly, biconics.

Plenty of children fought in wars over the course of history. In this case she’s more than pulling her own weight and clearly invaluable from the perspective of her companions.

And this is clearly not a realistic strict military setting, anyway. It’s a group of people with not much real official capacity apart from “name recognition” bumbling around who happen to be able to get to the right places at the right time to get things done.

Djinn.9245:

It doesn’t matter how much Taimi is a typical Asura, a child doesn’t belong on the battlefield. If they decide to make something happen to Taimi because she is in this group I will won’t care at all because I can’t be invested in a story that is so completely out of touch.

And a child would not be allowed to decide what happens to the effects of the greatest humanoid threat in recent history.

If a soldier (who is not even a child) had discovered Hitler’s secret bunker, it wouldn’t matter if that soldier was a prodigy – he wouldn’t be allowed to say “I’m going to stay here and examine all these artifacts”. He would be required to report it to the authorities who would appoint an experienced and trusted expert to examine them.

Ender’s Game…

Djinn.9245:

It doesn’t matter how much Taimi is a typical Asura, a child doesn’t belong on the battlefield. If they decide to make something happen to Taimi because she is in this group I will won’t care at all because I can’t be invested in a story that is so completely out of touch.

And a child would not be allowed to decide what happens to the effects of the greatest humanoid threat in recent history.

If a soldier (who is not even a child) had discovered Hitler’s secret bunker, it wouldn’t matter if that soldier was a prodigy – he wouldn’t be allowed to say “I’m going to stay here and examine all these artifacts”. He would be required to report it to the authorities who would appoint an experienced and trusted expert to examine them.

First of all, as was rightly pointed out, this is an adventuring group with no ties to any government body. As such, it’s kind of a finders’ keepers’ situation. But considering the look of contrition on her face in the recent trailer for The Dragon’s Reach, she may be called on the carpet for it.

As for children should never be involved in war, research history. We had kids serving in wars for a long time. Thirteen is considered the age of adulthood in many cultures. The idea of keep children at home and ‘safe’ for such a long period is pretty recent in human history. If my memory serves me, probably about the mid eighteen hundreds would mark the divider. It has a lot to do with lengthening life span, changes in technology which in turn changes attitudes.

Taimi also IS Azura and playing through the Azura personal story it’s pretty evident that they throw their progeny into the deep end. You have kids being exposed to out of control elementals in one class, being shrunk and chased by giant sized bugs in another, and the adults just sigh and rather than find it worrisome they seem to find it annoying. Not because they don’t care, but because it’s the way their society works.

She hasn’t been in any large scale battles. They kept her out of Lion’s Arch of example. The small battles she’s been in have had her working on tech in the back rather than actually doing any fighting. Not so much different than say Dawn in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Or kitten Grayson/Jason Todd/Tim Drake, or numerous other teen superheroes etc etc. And Jason Todd was killed, in fact the fan base voted to kill him off. And need I mention A Song of Ice and Fire? Arya is nine years old that the start of both the book and the TV series? And Bran is not much older, also crippled, and ends up in the middle of a war he must take part in.

See Taimi isn’t all that unusual. In fact, compared to Game of Thrones, her life has been down right tame.

Shows how closely I pay attention to the LS that I didn’t know Taimi was disabled until I read it here on the forums. But while we are being offended, Marjory’s stereotypical Southern accent and persona seems pretty offensive.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Shows how closely I pay attention to the LS that I didn’t know Taimi was disabled until I read it here on the forums. But while we are being offended, Marjory’s stereotypical Southern accent and persona seems pretty offensive.

She sounds more like an offcast from Di_ck Tracy to me. More 1920’s Chicago-esque private detective style. Goes with her investigation style too.

Basically, a totally out-of-place anachronism.

GuzziHero.2467:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Shows how closely I pay attention to the LS that I didn’t know Taimi was disabled until I read it here on the forums. But while we are being offended, Marjory’s stereotypical Southern accent and persona seems pretty offensive.

She sounds more like an offcast from Di_ck Tracy to me. More 1920’s Chicago-esque private detective style. Goes with her investigation style too.

Basically, a totally out-of-place anachronism.

To be fair, i don’t think we can apply temporal expectations to GW2, considering asura regularly use laser guns and charr have a fully industrialized civilization. Remember that important characters are supposed to be uncommon individuals, and whatever else there is to say about the biconics, they are certainly uncommon.

The first step for things not being offensive is stop being offended by things.

If you don’t like it, fine. But letting a fantasy setting get to your head that much means you probably need to work on controlling your emotions better.

Well for one I don’t care for Taimi, she is a smart kitten know it all and I really hate the way she talks down to the adults. Obviously Rox is smitten with Braham and the mothering thing is getting a bit old. Kas and Jory, great, saw that coming a mile away. However, do they have to talk soooooo much. Gad their conversations go on forever. “I want to help”, "i don’t need help, yes you do, no I don’t and on and on. Having said that I LOVE GW2!!!

CaptainVanguard.4925:

When it built up to the kiss it was something special, now, unfortunately it looses its flare because we no longer have a purpose to serve other than to remind you that “aww we have a lesbian couple in our game”.

I completely agree with this. Every time I do try the Living Story, it just seems to feel like “Look! Same-sex couple who happen to be very attractive and Mesmer/Necro, very opposites, isn’t that better?!”. Don’t get me wrong, I know that 1.) attractive people exist and 2.) it’s very hard to make unattractive women in GW2, but by both of them being “hot”, it feels like it’s just trying to appeal to men who get a kick out of two hot women kissing, etc. I am completely in favor of equal rights for LGBTQ individuals, and against marginalization of minority groups as a whole. I also am glad that plenty of games, movies, TV shows, etc. have been including characters of all kinds of backgrounds these days. However…there is a point when it feels just plain forced, and I agree that these two characters feel that way. Yeah, it shows that Tyria is a pretty open-minded world (though there is quite a lot of racism between some of the races, but the point is they have to put that aside to defeat Zhaitan and the Elder Dragons), but…yeah, I’ll just be repeating myself if I say it again. :P

Lamir.6702:

The first step for things not being offensive is stop being offended by things.

Pretty much needs to be said.

You have no one to blame but yourself if you get offended over things that aren’t even specifically targeting you.

This may quite possibly be the dumbest thread I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading on this forum. I don’t even know where to begin with the amount of things wrong with the OP, so instead I’m not… This is just a fail thread and that’s a fact by Taimi logic. AlSO before I leave the bomb fest this thread will undoubtly become, HOUSE M.D. A television show that features a crippled doctor is a genius much like Taimi… Seeing any connection? No? Well I left my rubber mallet at home, in conclusion this world needs less people being ‘offended’ by things.

Hmmm. While I don’t agree with most of your points, would like to see your analysis of Episode 3.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

FANTASY setting where by the problems of REAL LIFE should NOT apply to people in the same way it does in a virtual game that has no relevance on reality.

So. No wars. No death. No conflict. No jealousy, failed relationships. No crime or murder. No famines, no abandoned, ruined cities. No exiles. No racism. No greed, capitalism, or communism; no violent animals, no foul language. No accidents. No cracks about taking arrows to knees. Ah, better no weapons in the first place. Especially no swords. Have you any idea how many people get killed with machetes and knives? It’s insane, so the very idea that you are playing a game in which people are shown to be killed with blades is surely highly offensive.

I understand that you play video games as an escapism mechanism and being reminded of your own disability is probably disruptive of that, but you really did not think this through.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Kas and Jory:

Ok make up your mind. Do you want them to build the relationship faster or slower? In E1 you were kittening they were too lovey dovey, too predictable, etc etc. We told you to give it time. Now, in E2, Anet did exactly what you wanted… gave the relationship some angst and now you’re kittening its progressing too fast. Make up your mind. You cannot have it both ways.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Rox and Braham

I’m not even going to touch this…

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Well… being disabled myself with Tendonitis, Aspergers and Dyspraxia where do I start.

This… this right here kittened me off to the point that there are no words to describe it.
Right here you are pulling the ‘oh pity me, I have x, y, and z’ crap. You are using it as a crutch. My teenage son has Aspergers (for those that are not aware, this is a mild form of Autism), and he leads a completely functional life. He doesn’t let it pull him down or dictate what he can or can’t do. He doesn’t need meds to ‘make him right’ either, although society seems to be under the impression that medicating children into a stupor is the way to go.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

“The Golem Solves Everything”

Her golem is designed specifically for this though, as was explained by Angel in the twitch stream dedicated to Taimi. Scruffy is intended to be her protection. Part of his programming is to either get her the hell out of dodge, or bunker down if getting out isn’t an option. It makes sense that she’s inside the golem for protection because of the earthquake.

Of course, we’re all idiots for leaving her alone in the first place, imho.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Braham could have done this.

Yes Braham could probably have done this. Obviously they chose not to go that route. Personally, I figured it had something to do with those huge, nasty thorns….

CaptainVanguard.4925:

machines and Charr have nothing in common right?

Considering Taimi has this unhealthy fascination with Scarlet, it’s Scarlet’s tech, and it’s Asura based …this actually makes sense logically. Sure, Iron Legion charr are also tech based and could have worked it out. However, Rox is Blood Legion and it would have taken longer (theoretically).

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Doesn’t even care that Belinda died.

I wouldn’t necessarily say she doesn’t care. Like most children, she just may not be expressing it in a way we as adults expect. Children experience death and grief differently.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Fails at being an Asura by doing the incompetent

First, she’s a child. They don’t always think before they act.

Second, have you not noticed this trend (seeming incompetence) in adult asura? There are any number of events in the world that show Asura barging forward with their experiments with seemingly not a care in the world as to potential flaws. “Oh it’ll work just fine, because I did it” Do you really expect the child to be any different than the adults she has as role models? Come on now….apples don’t fall that far from the tree.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I don’t have a bee under my bonnet for Taimi

You say this, but everything you typed previously says otherwise

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I find it highly annoying and a little bit obnoxious.

Typical asura imo. They are all annoying and obnoxious, it’s a defining characteristic of their race. Along with over inflated egos.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

serves as a-nets conduit to remind us we have to feel sorry for Scarlet

Not the impression I get from it, but ok….

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I also want is for Taimi to eventually go down the road of her own life.

She’ll get there, give it time. Researching Scarlet and understanding what made the Sylvari tick isn’t any different than another Asura doing the same thing to Skritt. It’s just a big science project for her.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I do think if Scruffy was to be destroyed we might see a very interesting side of Taimi

Did you miss where they did break Scruffy in the EotM release? Hell, she sent you out to get parts to fix him….

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I want to know what shes like when she “isn’t” confident about herself.

I just think that Taimi in general needs to develop a bit more

Vulnerabilities enhance someone

She’s asura… most of them give off the vibe that they are always confident. Still, give it time. Gosh, you’re already kittening they are pushing things along too fast in other areas. You’ll do the same thing here if they suddenly give you what you want.

[Snipped for length]

I’m personally not a fan of the lone male member of the biconics being a pretty stereotypical meathead, but I don’t see the problem with Taimi having a physical malady. If this were a fantasy world “without the pains of the real world” in it would really have all the wars and displaced peoples in it?

Lostwingman.5034:

I’m personally not a fan of the lone male member of the biconics being a pretty stereotypical meathead

Read: “I don’t like the lone male member behaving a typical norn.” Every norn male has behaved that way, and many of the females too. Jora and Sif were the only ones I came across who bothered having slightly different attitudes, and even then it was because Jora had her own problems and Sif was already a legend and didn’t need to prove a darn thing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

[Snipped for length]

All hail Lanfear!

That was GOOD.

People have already taken the time to explain the flaw in your argument, Captain Vanguard, so I won’t go in depth.
What I will say is that I disagree with you completely.
The characters aren’t presented perfectly, but I do not find them offensive in any way.
Additionally, feminists are always talking about how people’s behavior does not have to be defined by gender. The feminist viewpoint on men is liberating to men, because it says they don’t have to fit any stereotype. It’s patriarchy that says men have to be testosterone-fueled meatbags.

People just don’t understand what “feminism” is anyway.

This thread offends me :P

Sytherek.7689:

As a significantly handicapped person —

I totally disagree. Completely. Absolutely. Disagree.

It’s time we stopped treating the disabled as invisible.
It’s time we stopped patronizing the disabled.

Pretending the disabled don’t exist in a “fantasy” setting is ridiculous.

ANet has done a wonderful job of integrating a disabled character into the current story. She is imperfect, sometimes bitter, but fighting back against her disability. She is refreshingly realistic without being preachy. Her presence adds an interesting aspect to “heroes.”

^this. well I’m not handicapped but I still agree :P

besides who the hell pities Taimi? Taimi is awesome! And what she needs the least is pity from anyone.

Then we got the Braham argument. Well I don’t like Braham like at all but that was still a bad point. People complain all the time that women get over-sexualized. Now we have a stereotype male character like that for once and people complain again? Please…

Stopped reading after that. I like Kasmeer (Marjory not so much but as long as Kas gets what she wants => w/e). Sometimes it indeed looks a bit forced but only because you really can’t go any deeper than that in an MMO. And missing emotes are a big problem, too. It looked really weird how Kas was holding her hands in front of her mouth for like a minute when they found Marjorys sister. A bit more “interaction” between characters (at least between NPC’s) and not only in cinematics(and even there they look wrong) would do the relationship between those two a big favor. Right now they are just standing next to each other and are constantly flirting

Weindrasi.3805:

The feminist viewpoint on men is liberating to men, because it says they don’t have to fit any stereotype. It’s patriarchy that says men have to be testosterone-fueled meatbags.

Exactly. Some men by default seem to blame feminists or feminism for everything these days when they have no understanding whatsoever of what feminism is about. The misrepresentation of feminism by the OP is offensive.

Any character ever has aspect which will offend someone. Braham is too sterotypically male and some people here don’t like that. Trahearne annoys some people for the opposite reason because he needs to man the kitten up most of the time. Some people dislike Jory+Kas, whereas other’s get annoyed when every couple everywhere is M+F.

Really I think people just need to stop being offended by these things… Anet probably doesn’t mean anything in particular by it, they are just trying to represent every possible type of person so that everyone has a character they identify with, but noone is ever going to like every character.

I need to voice my opinion: I hate the drill sergeants at Claypool in Queensdale. They annoy me with their condescending voice when I’m crafting.

It’s pretty offensive if I may say so.

Styxx.1564:

I need to voice my opinion: I hate the drill sergeants at Claypool in Queensdale. They annoy me with their condescending voice when I’m crafting.

It’s pretty offensive if I may say so.

The bank in Divinity’s Reach.

“I’m RICH, you know.”

We lost Doc Halvern but kept THAT guy?

On topic: having several Asura in my roster, Taimi’s behavior did not strike me as out of context; just another day of Unruly Progenies in Metrica. Considering Asura create golems and such for all sorts of tasks, it doesn’t surprise me Scruffy exists. It would make less sense and be more immerion-breaking to me if she didn’t use technology to assist her when needed.

If you want offensive, play World Of Warcraft and check out Orc Peons, who are regularly the butt of grade school-quality jokes. I have never seen this game sink to that depth. I can’t see how Taimi is written to be pitied. If anything, her reaction to attempts at being smothered by well-meaning concern is a good illustration of how people should respect and trust that someone with a disability knows their limits.

To be honest, with all the destruction and horrors in Tyria in general, I find Taimi and her interactions with the team to be a refresher. There’s plenty of grimdark in Orr, and pretty much every other zone, in your personal storyline, there’s no need for everyone to be in a perpetual Eeyore raincloud to be viable as a character. Tybalt was enough of a punch in the gut for me, tyvm. :C

I also have a Norn, so Braham also didn’t strike me as unusual. Blunt =/= dumb muscle. If you want to hear dumb muscle, go listen to the idle conversations of the Sons Of Svanir sometime.

Jory and Kas talk exactly like any number of friends I’ve had in a new relationship, so I can’t honestly say it felt “forced” for me, including the fluffy TMI. Pretty sure I did the same thing when I met my fiance! I was actually really thrilled that the ship was canon, and I look forward to seeing what happens next. I can understand the apprehension of them being presented for the appeal of the typical dudebro gamer, but then we have Sylvari, who absolutely infuriate some of those guys….so I’m willing to give ANet the benefit of the doubt. Seriously, I remember a warning thread that there were—gasp—MEN IN LOVE IN THE GREEN KNIGHT. NOES.

They kind of -can’t- look realistically attractive in this game, and that’s the one thing I am disappointed in. I wish they would give us more options in the creation screen for face and body. I’ve never been able to play humans. The very childlike faces available for very adult bodies really creep me out, male AND female. And where there is some diversity in body type for men, particularly Norn, women get “big boobs or BIGGER boobs”. For a game where the story isn’t a painful sausage-fest like (again) World Of Warcraft, they shouldn’t be adverse to a proper body slider.

Tarashi.1736:

They kind of -can’t- look realistically attractive in this game, and that’s the one thing I am disappointed in. I wish they would give us more options in the creation screen for face and body. I’ve never been able to play humans. The very childlike faces available for very adult bodies really creep me out, male AND female. And where there is some diversity in body type for men, particularly Norn, women get “big boobs or BIGGER boobs”. For a game where the story isn’t a painful sausage-fest like (again) World Of Warcraft, they shouldn’t be adverse to a proper body slider.

That’s an interesting observation about the faces, never struck me that way. Not saying you’re wrong, but I always got the sense that the design ascetic for the faces was somewhat manga/anime in style.

Someone asked about my opinons on Episode 3 and the characters development so ill give that:

Kas

Lil dissapointed that we didnt even get a single moment of interaction between her and Countess Anise whom is clearly a devilish flirt, its also a kitteneap that we missed the entire Jennah interaction completely.

Braham

Cant say I feel that he improved at all, I get it, I do, and I can see what A-net was trying to do this episode with Eir and Braham but it felt weak, the entire “off scene” fighting bonding thing was pretty cheap and evasive of what could have been an entire instanced scenerio showing a much needed Mother/Son Bonding and chance for char evolution.

Taimi

I actually like Phlunt acting as the balancing force to Taimi, a versed and elderly and obnoxious fellow that’s hard to like against a crippled prodigy that’s trying to become favored with the collages actually makes Taimi a bit more interesting to interact with now and I can accept this more.

That said, I’m more interested in what the heck shes doing with Omadd’s machine, I don’t fully trust her motives there, since that machine clearly was intended for seeing visions and I don’t believe for one minute she genuinely intends to use it to save the way point system.

Rox

For the first god kitten time I actually LIKED this character and I mean kitten did she get some NEEDED character development in this chapter, even if it was VERY small it was significant, very, significant.

Rox stole the show this time, and I feel both vocally she improved as-well as dialogue wise, she actually felt relevant this time and not just a “Notice me Rytlock Senpai” character but actually accepting she wont be part of his band yet still caring made me feel a bit more invested in her.

The story definitely tried to give the chars better context, but its still not quite there, however, I’m a lot happier in some respects though I disliked the WAY they did this patch more than the story itself.

Even so I do feel Episode 3 was very… lacking?

Id like to believe they will go the extra mile in future with char development arcs and instead of have us do an arbitrary world event actually give us more time with them to develop our interest in them, and their connections such as DE and their link to DE.

The whole living story is crap and not for any of the reasons you mentioned. The characters are badly designed and forced, and the ridiculous message it’s pushing in our faces belongs on a Tumblr blog, not in something I pay money for.

Get your act together ArenaNet. Stop forcing this PC trash down our throats. The real offensiveness is what they have done to the Guild Wars story by incorporating all this nonsense into a fantasy that had some potential. The entire living story has been mediocre at best but especially bad since the introduction of all these new characters. It’s uninspiring, it’s deluded, and quite frankly it belongs in a toilet.

The rest of you need to grow a thicker skin and see the forest for the trees.

What ridiculous message?

Kamui.4038:

The whole living story is crap and not for any of the reasons you mentioned. The characters are badly designed and forced, and the ridiculous message it’s pushing in our faces belongs on a Tumblr blog, not in something I pay money for.

Get your act together ArenaNet. Stop forcing this PC trash down our throats. The real offensiveness is what they have done to the Guild Wars story by incorporating all this nonsense into a fantasy that had some potential. The entire living story has been mediocre at best but especially bad since the introduction of all these new characters. It’s uninspiring, it’s deluded, and quite frankly it belongs in a toilet.

The rest of you need to grow a thicker skin and see the forest for the trees.

Badly designed? How exactly? I suppose Kasmeer’s character model is my least favorite of the bunch considering how “barbie doll” she looks at least when compared to Jory.

Ridiculous message? Tell me what message are you speaking of?

CaptainVanguard.4925:

her biggest flaw is that shes supposed to be some perfect, mental prodigy that’s what, 5 years old?

While being handi-capped with a disability?

Stephen Hawking would like to have a word with you.

WatchTheShow.7203:

CaptainVanguard.4925:

her biggest flaw is that shes supposed to be some perfect, mental prodigy that’s what, 5 years old?

While being handi-capped with a disability?

Stephen Hawking would like to have a word with you.

The way I see it, the flaw Taimi has is perhaps her overeagerness. But that is more like my impression of her.

Kamui.4038:

The whole living story is crap and not for any of the reasons you mentioned. The characters are badly designed and forced, and the ridiculous message it’s pushing in our faces belongs on a Tumblr blog, not in something I pay money for.

Get your act together ArenaNet. Stop forcing this PC trash down our throats. The real offensiveness is what they have done to the Guild Wars story by incorporating all this nonsense into a fantasy that had some potential. The entire living story has been mediocre at best but especially bad since the introduction of all these new characters. It’s uninspiring, it’s deluded, and quite frankly it belongs in a toilet.

The rest of you need to grow a thicker skin and see the forest for the trees.

Who cares if they’re being politically correct? Political correctness, like etiquette, is useful—especially when catering to the sensibilities of large groups.
The Living Story has its flaws, but whether or not it’s “PC” isn’t one of them. As far as I’m concerned, they can be as “PC”—or not—as they please, as long as the game’s fun and the story’s good. The game is fun, and the story’s not the best—but it keeps me interested nonetheless, so I’m happy to follow it.

M Steel.2574:

Taimi -

….but I like that Taimi’s disability is a part of who she is, but isn’t the only thing that defines her as a character. snip

Agree with you here. I am disabled so I do understand a disability being part of you on a daily basis. You work with it or around it as you can. Taimi appears to be working with what she has available. She has a great (genius) mind and has chose to use that rather than dwelling on her condition. We also are not around her for long periods of time and we don’t really know much of her back story which is something I would love to find out about. I do find myself caught up in her enthusiasm which is infectious and she does have a good way of explaining things which few asurans seem to be able to do. I see no pity party here for her and actually really don’t notice she is disabled – I am focusing more on her personality and what she is than what she appears to be. She is a personality and a force of nature so to speak. I do say Kudos to ANet for creating characters who are not totally perfect. This one happens to be a physical imperfection. Other characters have their flaws and weaknesses as well.

M Steel.2574:

Braham -

Okay, Braham may not be the brains of the outfit and he may be a tad on the “bash first, smash later” side at times, but I’d argue that he’s the heart of the group and has grown as the story progressed. snip

I see Brahm as a big brother figure. His dad raised him right. Rox is sort of his surrogate mother – she worries after him, nags him and pushes him to the right path. I have never seem him as a big dumb goon who just bashes things. You see the youth and enthusiasm and eagerness. Like any youth he may not always make the right decisions and he definitely does not have enough life experience to understand his bio-mother but he may come to terms with that eventually as he gets to know her and her reasons for doing what she did. I would assume most other Norn mothers are more involved with their children than Eir was. I think she stayed out of his life on purpose and they will gain a common bond with what is coming, though I would not be surprised to find her sacrificing herself for Brahm at some point.

M Steel.2574:

Kasmeer and Jory -

Okay, the hot asian—err canthan—femme fatale and the bubbly blonde bombshell are classic stereotypes. I’m not going to argue that. …snip…. I’ll give you the fact that they are unoriginal and stereotypical, but to say that they don’t have problems and they can’t grow as characters is off the mark. …snip…. One problem I have, is that Anet is rehashing the same storyline with Rox and Braham in Season 2, and, in my opinion, Rox doting on Braham and not wanting him to put himself in danger is being better executed because it isn’t mired by the same ultra-feminine/ultra-closed-off-loner stereotypes as Kas and Jory. snip

Yeah, definitely feeling the stereotype here. If anything this one has been the icky, ooey, gooey, lovey, dovey overdone stereotype. I do agree each has grown as individuals and while sorry to see Belinda die (I saw the red shirt as soon as she showed up, lol) I was happier seeing Kasmeer act on her own during this episode. She felt a lot less like Marjory’s appendage and a strong person in her own right. I also sort of got the sense that Marjory’s family may not be so accepting of Kasmeer. But Marjory also realized that the group did not need both of them gone at this point and it appears to be the first recognition from Marjory that Kasmeer is fully capable of operating without her. I definitely would like to see them grow out of a stereotype instead of rehashing over and over. I am enjoying the Rox/Braham relationship and would like to see it develop more as well.

Zomaarwat.3912:

>Some like the idea of their disability and personal standing being represented, but I myself do not like them at all because at the core of its universe guild wars is a FANTASY setting where by the problems of REAL LIFE should NOT apply to people in the same way it does in a virtual game that has no relevance on reality.

>the fact she has a Golem to fix it actually makes it worse because by that definition your giving false hope to the physically impaired by making the character into a paragon.

Careful, you’re tripping over yourself.
Also: physically crippled =/= mentally crippled

To me, it just sounds like youre upset that there is a character that happens to be disabled in the story, and this character’s disability reminds you of your own disabilities, and so this makes you upset that you are reminded of your own hardships in RL. I can see how this (and every time taimi is shown) would continuously break the 4rth wall, and stop all immersion for you.

However, given all that. The game is catered to the masses, and a disabled character being a “trigger” for you is no reason to stop representing disabled people in this fantasy world.

I also feel that taimi’s disability is in no way a focus of her character. In fact, her disability was only ever referenced or seriously talked about ONCE iirc in the whole living story, way back in season one with the edge of the mists episode.
Taimi’ is an asuran prodigy, smart, smug, easily excitable, and snarky.
She just happens to be disabled, her disability doesn’t define her.

So here is what you are saying, adding a cripple character in a game is bad but all the killing and slaughtering and getting reward for killing people is ok in a video game? correct me if that’s not what you are saying.

Well, I fundamentally disagree with real life problems not having to do with fantasy. Obviously fantasy is an escape but it’s hard to create situations and characters that are meaningful to a human audience. That’s why I thought a lot of the personal story aside from those few good parts lacked a reason on why I should care. Everything feels so tidy and without consequence. The destruction of Lion’s Arch held meaning because sometimes disaster can strike places where we’ve had so many experiences with each other. On the other hand the Belinda situation feels contrived because she feels like a throwaway character and there just is no connect.

On the other hand I don’t find Taimi’s character forced at all. She is a character of her own will that isn’t defined by any particular stereotype. Why can’t she have a disability anyways?

A fantasy includes dreams and hopes. Even idealized characters in fiction have their own struggles to fight that may coincide with the real world. There is no such thing is false hope.

If nobody dared to dream and hope for more in their own mind just because their goal doesn’t exist right now, then humanity wouldn’t have gotten too far. To me, idealizations exist in fiction so we may hope for more in reality. We talk about great heroes with immense displays of bravery, strength, kindness and cunning so we can encourage ourselves to try and chase these ideals and ultimately better ourselves by moving a step closer to these virtues even if reality isn’t so clean cut. And likewise, why not support a fantasy world that is more tolerant as something to work for?

So it’s fine to not allow a world of intolerance into fantasy. In the end fantasy can be more than just an escape from reality, it can be a place where the ideals of reality can be challenged far more than it typically is.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Braham is a feminist view on males

Braham, hurts me, even looking at him I am treated as a man like an idiot being reminded that this guy is incompetent at anything because all he does is think with his muscle.

Have you ever considered some men actually don’t “have” muscle to think with and thus have to depend on other aspects of their abilities, or the fact we have the capacity to “think” with a brain.

This form of writing is forced dialogue to make a character seem like a stereotypical depiction of a gender, its the jar jar binx syndrome that made JJB so hated by the star wars fans.

You don’t get to do that to men and not expect backlash for it.

Are you saying that feminists view all men as hypermasculine, stubborn, brawny, brainless brutes? Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting your words, but feminism seeks to erase traditional gender roles so that men who do not fit this stereotype you seem to think that Braham fits won’t constantly be told to “man up” or “grow a pair.” Most rational and modern feminists do not believe that all men are stupid and bullheaded. So to say that the way Braham is represented (as a “feminist view on males”) is offensive to you is pretty offensive to feminists, lol. I don’t want to split hairs over it. Just trying to educate a little is all.

-

I can’t believe people are complaining that one of the flaws with this LS (and GW2 in general) is that it’s politically correct? I just don’t get it. I worry about you people and your home lives. What do you honestly want in the place of political correctness?

mcgriddles.2416:

Are you saying that feminists view all men as hypermasculine, stubborn, brawny, brainless brutes? Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting your words, but feminism seeks to erase traditional gender roles so that men who do not fit this stereotype you seem to think that Braham fits won’t constantly be told to “man up” or “grow a pair.” Most rational and modern feminists do not believe that all men are stupid and bullheaded. So to say that the way Braham is represented (as a “feminist view on males”) is offensive to you is pretty offensive to feminists, lol. I don’t want to split hairs over it. Just trying to educate a little is all.

Agreed with one exception. All feminists (not most) do not believe that all men are stupid and bullheaded. If one believes otherwise, one is, by definition, not a feminist since feminism is about equality for all, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identification, etc. His statement about feminists was offensive towards feminists but primarily displayed a lack of knowledge about what feminism represents.

^ Well said. This is a common misconception about feminists and what they seek. Feminists (which can include men as well) seek gender equality, the right for people to have the same opportunities for jobs, remuneration, relationships etc. regardless of their gender. They also support the opportunity for men and women to choose traditional roles if that is what they want. Feminists would no more attack a woman for choosing to stay home and look after the kids than she would a woman who opts for the Double-Income-No-Kids lifestyle. The crucial difference is that the woman (or man) gets to choose how they want to live their life; it is not forced onto them by social or cultural values.

The hateful “all men are pigs!” stereotype of feminists do exist, but they are just as bigoted and extreme as the MRA supporters. Neither of those people are welcome in the rational, tolerant world that gender equalists (which should probably be the new term we should adopt to avoid confusion) seek.

Equalist high five

@ Zaxares
I like the idea of the “gender equalist” label because many men who support feminist ideals are reluctant to identify as feminists.

The hateful “all men are pigs” types are not feminists at all – they are bigots who do not help women in any way. However, they are not as bad as the MRA types who present a threat to the safety and well-being of women with their promotion of often violent ideals about the oppression of women, including promoting physical abuse, sexual assault and worse.

Yeah, I’ll grant that as a whole, the MRA movement is likely more harmful to society than the “femikittens”. Individually though, I doubt that most MRA men actually do very much. I liken them to other bigots who badmouth their targets, but rarely, if ever, actually take concrete action.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lostwingman.5034:

I’m personally not a fan of the lone male member of the biconics being a pretty stereotypical meathead

Read: “I don’t like the lone male member behaving a typical norn.” Every norn male has behaved that way, and many of the females too. Jora and Sif were the only ones I came across who bothered having slightly different attitudes, and even then it was because Jora had her own problems and Sif was already a legend and didn’t need to prove a darn thing.

“Typical Norn”, I didn’t know the typical Norn bordered on child-like intelligence and simplicity.

And yes, I’m still salty over that “no Scarlet, I’m not going to let you give us a heads up on what’s coming because ‘ur a bad gai and bad gaiz say nuffin gud’”.

Kim.4152:

@ Zaxares
I like the idea of the “gender equalist” label because many men who support feminist ideals are reluctant to identify as feminists.

The term is Eqalitarian for people who support gender equality but are wary of the baggage the feminist label often enough carries.

Kim.4152:

The hateful “all men are pigs” types are not feminists at all – they are bigots who do not help women in any way. However, they are not as bad as the MRA types who present a threat to the safety and well-being of women with their promotion of often violent ideals about the oppression of women, including promoting physical abuse, sexual assault and worse.

Are…you confusing RedPill/RoK types with MRA?

Lostwingman.5034:

Kim.4152:

@ Zaxares
I like the idea of the “gender equalist” label because many men who support feminist ideals are reluctant to identify as feminists.

The term is Eqalitarian for people who support gender equality but are wary of the baggage the feminist label often enough carries.

Kim.4152:

The hateful “all men are pigs” types are not feminists at all – they are bigots who do not help women in any way. However, they are not as bad as the MRA types who present a threat to the safety and well-being of women with their promotion of often violent ideals about the oppression of women, including promoting physical abuse, sexual assault and worse.

Are…you confusing RedPill/RoK types with MRA?

The only baggage the feminist label has is put on their by others, not by feminists.

MRA groups are classified as hate groups for a reason.

Lostwingman.5034:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lostwingman.5034:

I’m personally not a fan of the lone male member of the biconics being a pretty stereotypical meathead

Read: “I don’t like the lone male member behaving a typical norn.” Every norn male has behaved that way, and many of the females too. Jora and Sif were the only ones I came across who bothered having slightly different attitudes, and even then it was because Jora had her own problems and Sif was already a legend and didn’t need to prove a darn thing.

“Typical Norn”, I didn’t know the typical Norn bordered on child-like intelligence and simplicity.

And yes, I’m still salty over that “no Scarlet, I’m not going to let you give us a heads up on what’s coming because ‘ur a bad gai and bad gaiz say nuffin gud’”.

More like “No Scarlet, I’m not going to let you monologue and possibly trigger who knows what with voice commands, like teleporting away… or teleporting something in here with us. Or activating kill trap turrets… or any other things.”

:P