Guild Wars 2

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Hey all, while the topics being brought up in the last couple of posts posts may be interesting to discuss, let’s all circle back to talking about the game and its characters in this thread.

Thanks much!

This topic only came up because of the OP falsely and unfairly blaming feminists for the aspects of Braham’s character he does not like. So, it is relevant to the opening post.

Kim.4152:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Hey all, while the topics being brought up in the last couple of posts posts may be interesting to discuss, let’s all circle back to talking about the game and its characters in this thread.

Thanks much!

This topic only came up because of the OP falsely and unfairly blaming feminists for the aspects of Braham’s character he does not like. So, it is relevant to the opening post.

Interesting that you selectively ignore the rest of my points about the other characters but I digress, people will always nitpick the smallest details (ha I guess I can talk!)

Look, lets look at this from another POV: Sometimes someone has to say the other sides thoughts not just the “Taimi for President” group but the side that actually says “Look there are reasons people don’t all exclusively like the Living Story cast.”

Now then let me point out some new facts based on Dragons Reach Part 2 that I specifically would like to point out:

Taimi

DR Part 2 was exactly what I was saying with Taimi, a scenario where Taimi has to actually be supported BY the rest of the team finally happened (though I’m a little sad you didn’t at least add “Boss! Braham! Help me!” in that situation since I felt like a spare part >.>).

This was also the first time we got to see Taimi ACT like a Teenager, which I was happy with, Taimi actually behaved irrationally and stupidly just because she wanted a little glory hog for herself and as a consequence she got into more trouble than it was worth.

Some people might look at it in the context of “No she made it she deserves credit for it!” Yes she does but at the end of the day nobody should be given a cuddle for nearly destroying their own prototype save the world device.

It was good to see her have a little taste of Hubris gone wrong for a change and I do hope from this point on Taimi has a bit more respect for Braham instead of always calling him an idiot or making gentle reference jokes to it since he did essentially SAVE her.

Speaaaaking of which:

Braham

I didn’t like Braham in DR part 1, to be honest, DR part 1 was incredibly weak and the “off camera” mother/son dialogue was cringe worthy, I really hope they never try that stuff again because it was bad design.

I get they were trying to show Eir and Braham are estranged but it didn’t work, because for the most part, I did not get to see ENOUGH to see they were slowly warming to each other.

That said, I can at least see they are trying to make him smarter and grow over time which is showing, I just hope it sticks and evolves with the character which would make him a tad more interesting to interact with.

Rox

DR part 1 was the selling point for Rox, this was where she truly became the star of the show, obviously part 2 she didn’t have a major part to play but that’s fine, in Rytlocks story she was pivotal and it showed.

This was the first time I genuinely LIKED Rox since she broke away from her notice me senpai Rytlock fangirly behavior and moved into a more using her present logic to make a point of Rytlocks plan being pretty kitten risky.

She was genuinely useful and genuinely involving in this story.

Jory

I wanna know what she did with Bel’s body, if she actually tried to ress it and failed, or if she just buried it and met her family, because her story was obviously the weakest but considering there was virtually no char involvement that’s fine, I can forgive it.

Kasmeer

We obviously can see something big is going on with Kas and that’s an interesting thing, that said I fear Kasmeers interesting quirks were WELL overshadowed unfortunately by the EXTREMELY welcome return of our favorite cynic, Canach who essentially stole the show of part 2.

That said, Kas without Jory isn’t a first timer, she was introduced without Jory in south sun so its interesting that she’s conveniently in the same story content Canach is in.

I also liked Anise a hell of a lot in this present stuff, she was a big major player in what was going on, juicy things.

But focusing on the group:

Kas was okay, Jory didn’t have anything but its forgivable because of that, Rox got a lot better, Braham is slowly improving and Taimi finally got a lesson in humility.

Sooo, I’m happy, long story short.

I am entirely content and look forwards to Episode 5 though I do agree with a lot of people saying this game does need an expansion and I do also believe that as much as I like the Biconics or have come to, I believe we need a break from them when S2 is over and they need a break from us too.

Perhaps bring back minor chars like the consortium and Kiel and flesh them out in Season 3.

I was told Gnashblade had some big part to play in S2 somewhere, in an earlier interview about S2 (cant remember the exact words, something about him being angry at Kiel and slowly getting revenge for it).

No. For… a lot of things.

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put. He is also young, putting a less intelligent swing into some things he says. I think of some of the things I said as a teenager and am absolutely embarrassed this day. He reminds me of that phase of my life a lot.

Does GW2 NEED LESBIANS? No. But I don’t really care what it “needs,” personally I’m just happy just seeing gay couples being portrayed as normal. Notice how none of the characters in-game bat an eyelash at the homosexual aspect? That’s a GOOD THING. It’s not meant to be a huge stinking deal, they’re just two characters who are cute together. (They need more character development, sure, but that moves along at the same pace as the story.)

It’s very hard to touch on Taimi without repeating what everyone else has said. Her attitude is annoying but that’s typical of any Asura. She’s aware of being smarter than the team despite being young, so she treats them snobbishly sometimes, as her upbringing would have her do. I’ve always found this annoying about the Asura but it is not out of character.

I’m not sure if the “She’s really young” part has been brought up yet…? She’s been making stupid decisions that are uncharacteristic of the adult Asuras we’ve seen, but they don’t seem all that weird considering her age.

On her disability, I just don’t see what the fuss is about. She’s crippled somehow, so she made her golem to rise to the challenge. It never struck me as a crutch. Her ailment is likely a big part of what motivates her for a lot of things. She concentrates on Scruffy because he’s something she can be proud of, and she obviously wants to be known for her mental prowess over either her disability or age (the age is clearly another type of handicap since the adult asura don’t take her seriously).

Obviously the above is just how I’ve interpreted things. But I’ve noticed her “Hey look what I did!” behaviour and how it seems to be her way of distracting people from her age/disability. It also appears to be a motivator, which is a fairly realistic way of portraying her in my opinion – She is strong-willed both because, and in spite of, her physical obstacles. It makes her seem pretty strong for how young she is.

I should also note that I find her annoying as hell as well, heh. But that’s more of a personal thing for me, I don’t generally like the Asuras’ attitudes. I appreciate that this is all part of the lore and it makes me feel more involved in the world.

TL;DR version is that I don’t like all of the cast either but I can also discern my personal preference from bad writing/acting. I think this is a case of “pretty good writing/acting” versus my personal tastes in characters.

My apologies if I’ve repeated anything or touched on topics already resolved, I tried to read through everything but there’s a lot of material and it’s quite late.

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

Lostwingman.5034:

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

It has been discussed and shown that Eir is not your “typical” Norn though. She is somewhat of an oddity for her race. If you compare her to other Norn and how they typically think and function you’ll notice this inconsistency.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

It has been discussed and shown that Eir is not your “typical” Norn though. She is somewhat of an oddity for her race. If you compare her to other Norn and how they typically think and function you’ll notice this inconsistency.

I don’t think it’s as ingrained as that. That would make the Norn a people stuck in tween adolescence and only a step ahead of the skritt… I mean, how can you with a straight face say that when you have the followers of Raven being all about cunning and wisdom while being one of the biggest groups. I don’t think you’ve thought this through as much as you think.

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put. He is also young, putting a less intelligent swing into some things he says. I think of some of the things I said as a teenager and am absolutely embarrassed this day. He reminds me of that phase of my life a lot.

He’s the only male who’s actually in the story. Canach is slated to have more screentime, so that’s nice, but…

The only males we are frequently exposed to are:
A blockhead
A psychopath

completely fair representation of males!

Lostwingman.5034:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

It has been discussed and shown that Eir is not your “typical” Norn though. She is somewhat of an oddity for her race. If you compare her to other Norn and how they typically think and function you’ll notice this inconsistency.

I don’t think it’s as ingrained as that. That would make the Norn a people stuck in tween adolescence and only a step ahead of the skritt… I mean, how can you with a straight face say that when you have the followers of Raven being all about cunning and wisdom while being one of the biggest groups. I don’t think you’ve thought this through as much as you think.

“The Norn are a highly independent race with a fighter-centric society, holding strength and prowess in combat above everything else. To a Norn, the greatest shame is not dying in battle, but rather not having the tale of their life, especially death, told.”

“Norn culture is highly individualistic with a focus on personal success and glory – particularly when gained from the hunt or in a battle. "

“each norn seeks to prove themselves, to build their legend through feats of individual valor and great victories”

“Norn are a hearty, proud people – quick to anger "

Sometimes hitting first can be cunning. However, Braham is not a follower of Raven primarily. He is a follower of Wolf. Different type of individual.

I’m not sure I agree with this. We knew the characters before their relationship – Marjory is calm, logical, and independent. She seems to get embarrassed by anyone’s fussing over her. She is a detective, as we know from when she was introduced, months before their relationship was a thing.

Kasmeer is more of a “people” person, good at understanding and empathizing with them. She gets hiccups when she’s scared… Sort of annoying, but part of her character nonetheless. She can me somewhat meek at times but seems to rise to the challenge when it counts. We know that she’s a very talented mesmer from the Toxic Alliance.

I mean… These are certainly not super in-depth characters. But they are definitely more solid than a lot of the main NPCs we’ve dealt with (like Brahm, unfortunately, but I’m hoping he gets more character development as well).

As for “forcing” it, I dunno about that, either. They interact like any couple might. It’s definitely PART of their characters, which is fine, and I don’t feel that it’s the ONLY part of them.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and therefore the quoted portion has been removed.]

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

It has been discussed and shown that Eir is not your “typical” Norn though. She is somewhat of an oddity for her race. If you compare her to other Norn and how they typically think and function you’ll notice this inconsistency.

I don’t think it’s as ingrained as that. That would make the Norn a people stuck in tween adolescence and only a step ahead of the skritt… I mean, how can you with a straight face say that when you have the followers of Raven being all about cunning and wisdom while being one of the biggest groups. I don’t think you’ve thought this through as much as you think.

“The Norn are a highly independent race with a fighter-centric society, holding strength and prowess in combat above everything else. To a Norn, the greatest shame is not dying in battle, but rather not having the tale of their life, especially death, told.”

“Norn culture is highly individualistic with a focus on personal success and glory – particularly when gained from the hunt or in a battle. "

“each norn seeks to prove themselves, to build their legend through feats of individual valor and great victories”

“Norn are a hearty, proud people – quick to anger "

Sometimes hitting first can be cunning. However, Braham is not a follower of Raven primarily. He is a follower of Wolf. Different type of individual.

Which is fine for Braham individually, I just don’t think it’s an inborn trait of the Norn as others say.

Lostwingman.5034:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Lostwingman.5034:

Kitten Commander.8952:

Brahm is an accurate representation of Norn, “hit first, ask questions later” as it’s been put.

Errr…no. That makes literally no sense given that the most prominent Norn we have, Eir Stegalkin, was the tactician for a group that consisted of the likes of Rytlock and Logan. It’s a common disposition sure but that has more to do with the emphasis on “great actions” by the Norn. That has nothing to do with the “inability to think ahead” that people seem to want to heap on them.

It has been discussed and shown that Eir is not your “typical” Norn though. She is somewhat of an oddity for her race. If you compare her to other Norn and how they typically think and function you’ll notice this inconsistency.

I don’t think it’s as ingrained as that. That would make the Norn a people stuck in tween adolescence and only a step ahead of the skritt… I mean, how can you with a straight face say that when you have the followers of Raven being all about cunning and wisdom while being one of the biggest groups. I don’t think you’ve thought this through as much as you think.

“The Norn are a highly independent race with a fighter-centric society, holding strength and prowess in combat above everything else. To a Norn, the greatest shame is not dying in battle, but rather not having the tale of their life, especially death, told.”

“Norn culture is highly individualistic with a focus on personal success and glory – particularly when gained from the hunt or in a battle. "

“each norn seeks to prove themselves, to build their legend through feats of individual valor and great victories”

“Norn are a hearty, proud people – quick to anger "

Sometimes hitting first can be cunning. However, Braham is not a follower of Raven primarily. He is a follower of Wolf. Different type of individual.

Which is fine for Braham individually, I just don’t think it’s an inborn trait of the Norn as others say.

I took more than Braham into account when I made the statement. The Norn as they were portrayed in GW1 were more that way. A lot of the flavor text from random conversations portrays them as such as well.

I’m not saying they don’t think, or plan, or that they are stupid in any way. Not at all.

I think a lot of the issue comes from Braham’s decision to kill Scarlet, rather than let her prattle on like the stereotypical villain during her death scene. This doesn’t mean he didn’t think it through before acting. However, all we saw was the aggressive hit first response, which is fine.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think a lot of the issue comes from Braham’s decision to kill Scarlet, rather than let her prattle on like the stereotypical villain during her death scene. This doesn’t mean he didn’t think it through before acting. However, all we saw was the aggressive hit first response, which is fine.

Actually, it means he thought it through and knew to end a threat before it could become bigger or make the situation worse.

Maybe not EXACTLY like that, but he knew enough that Scarlet needed to be silenced now, instead of risking more issues.

Yeah, he’s a smashy type person, a LOT of norn are. Maybe not all, but some certainly are. He seems more in line with the tourny brawlers and adventurers then some of the more cunning, Norn. Course, some could be using that to make others underestimate them :P

Actually, in MMO’s and most RPGs, the player base is almost equally split between males and females now (it’s something like 55-45 or 60-40, from what I hear). And female gamers tend to dominate the market for “casual” games like Candy Crush or Farmville. Male gamers do still tend to dominate for genres like FPS and driving games, but that’s hardly surprising considering these games still tend to use heavily male-oriented marketing.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and therefore the quoted portion has been removed.]

Zaxares.5419:

Actually, in MMO’s and most RPGs, the player base is almost equally split between males and females now (it’s something like 55-45 or 60-40, from what I hear). And female gamers tend to dominate the market for “casual” games like Candy Crush or Farmville. Male gamers do still tend to dominate for genres like FPS and driving games, but that’s hardly surprising considering these games still tend to use heavily male-oriented marketing.

I’m only going off the 2-3 surveys people have done on gw2. All you need is to google them. One I just looked at right now has it at: 91% male 9% female. Which is quite a bit off from your 55-45.

sure males dominate fps/sports/driving games, you don’t need to think too hard to understand why. But if you look at gaming in general is mainly a male interest and this encompasses every game that is not female focused i.e barbie/my little pony etc.

What’s great about fantasy MMO’s is they are both male and female friendly. But that does not mean its automatically becomes an even split in population.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and therefore the quoted portion has been removed.]

The original post was hypersensitive, insecure, and a stunt just to get attention. I couldn’t disagree more (and I’m disabled too).

You took the negative view of Taimi’s condition rather than seeing her as a person who is able to rise above her ailment. YOU defined her by her disability. A bit ironic, seeing as defining a person by his/her disability alone is extremely offensive and insensitive IRL. She excels in spite of her disability. Many disabled persons do this on a daily basis, and it is something to be applauded. With all due respect, your post tells more about your personal issues (and a lack of coping with your situation) rather than anything that was supposedly wrong with the game.

Kasmeer and Marjory are only offensive to one group of people – those that have an issue against anyone who doesn’t fit their view of the world.

Braham is a Norn, and he’s young. He isn’t sure due to his age. Don’t misread teenage awkwardness as a lack of intelligence. Stereotyping much?

Rox was fine.

I seriously scratch my head at your whole post. I would say what I really think about it, but I don’t want to be mean.

Kitten Commander.8952:

As for “forcing” it, I dunno about that, either. They interact like any couple might. It’s definitely PART of their characters, which is fine, and I don’t feel that it’s the ONLY part of them.

Yeah, sure, they act like any couple might. The issue is that I am not part of their relationship, my character has literally no reason to care about their relationship yet their ‘hey sweetie’-dialogue gets massive amounts of screen time for absolutely no reason. It’s forced as all hell

Kasmeer Meade: When Scarlet struck you down, my heart stopped.
Marjory Delaqua: Oh, Kas. I’m sorry-

Kasmeer Meade: Listen. I’m sorry about how I’ve been acting. I just can’t stand the thought of you getting hurt again. That scared the fluff out of me.
Marjory Delaqua: I know, honey. I’ve felt the same way about you. But you convinced me that you can handle yourself. Now, let me convince you.

Kasmeer Meade: Get those survivors clear! This area isn’t safe. Move them to the order camps outside the gate!
Kasmeer Meade: Go on. Go with… the Lionguard. Why are you staring at me, Jory?
Marjory Delaqua: I’m just admiring you.

Marjory Delaqua: Too bad you can’t mesmer up a fur cloak to keep you warm
Kasmeer Meade: (laugh) I don’t need one. I have you. Come on over here.
Marjory Delaqua: With Pleasure.

This stuff is so awkward, so out of place anyone that has ever read a book will cringe. Why is my character forced to stick with these airheads? I can see why people that played GW1 are absolutely disgusted by the way GW2 living story handles the IP, it is the main focus of the game after all, it is the reason why we can’t explore the mysteries of orr, legacy of jotun, the floating castle and anything else remotely interesting there is in the world. This fanfic-tier fluff is what they write instead.

Sethren.8472:

Kasmeer and Marjory are only offensive to one group of people – those that have an issue against anyone who doesn’t fit their view of the world.

Braham is a Norn, and he’s young. He isn’t sure due to his age. Don’t misread teenage awkwardness as a lack of intelligence. Stereotyping much?

Yeah I agree with kasmeer/marjory I really dislike those two

as from braham, don’t underestimate the intelligence of a teenager. I think the word your looking for is wisdom. So you’re stereotyping just as much as you think the OP is.

When I first saw the trailer for Dragon’s Reach part 2, I tought we’d see Braham rush right after Taimi, beat the living snot out of as many inquest as possible while the player takes that little bit longer to find the duo.

But no, we come in. Braham says 2 things and we beat them up. Again.
In the end Braham is such a passive character with no real weight on the group, the story or you. It brings nothing to the table besides the fact that’s he’s a norn and that’s about it. I tought his protective attitude would’ve make him a sort of father figure for Taimi, to some degree, but they don’t even shine a light on this little quality he has.

I was waiting for him to act more protective towards Taimi, a child being pretty much bullied by the council member and his group. But no he just stood there.

It’s just sad to be honest. And same for Rox. This two had a fun synergy at the start that has been pushed away soo much by Taimi and Marj/Kass.

Kalavier.1097:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think a lot of the issue comes from Braham’s decision to kill Scarlet, rather than let her prattle on like the stereotypical villain during her death scene. This doesn’t mean he didn’t think it through before acting. However, all we saw was the aggressive hit first response, which is fine.

Actually, it means he thought it through and knew to end a threat before it could become bigger or make the situation worse.

Maybe not EXACTLY like that, but he knew enough that Scarlet needed to be silenced now, instead of risking more issues.

Yeah, he’s a smashy type person, a LOT of norn are. Maybe not all, but some certainly are. He seems more in line with the tourny brawlers and adventurers then some of the more cunning, Norn. Course, some could be using that to make others underestimate them :P

Which was basically what I said…. XD

The biconics are badly written, plain and simple.

Some people like trashy novels, so some people may like the biconic characters, but that does not make them good.

According to OP I should be offended by the “normies” in this game because of the realism in the fantasy game. That would make me a moron if I was offended wouldn’kitten

I don’t think Anet intended to offend anyone when creating these “fictional” characters. That would just be bad professionalism.

One should only be offended by actual offensive material that come from hate groups. You know, things that are actually personally targeted at you.

Lets say hypothetically I am offended by all the disabled people out in the world. Is it my right to try and fix these unfortunate individuals or publicly address my issue with them? I think not.

GW2 is a fictional game. If anyone gets offended by anything within the game they are morons. If you are genuinely offended you should probably stop playing , maybe ask for a refund.

I personally am getting sick of anyone being offended by anything. As if said thing that offends you actually affects any day of your life. I cannot pity self patronizing individuals. All I can say is either rise above , or ignore. Tons of other games out there.

Also, there are probably tons of novels out there that depict the same type of character that is Taimi. OP just hasn’t read them to be offended yet.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kalavier.1097:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think a lot of the issue comes from Braham’s decision to kill Scarlet, rather than let her prattle on like the stereotypical villain during her death scene. This doesn’t mean he didn’t think it through before acting. However, all we saw was the aggressive hit first response, which is fine.

Actually, it means he thought it through and knew to end a threat before it could become bigger or make the situation worse.

Maybe not EXACTLY like that, but he knew enough that Scarlet needed to be silenced now, instead of risking more issues.

Yeah, he’s a smashy type person, a LOT of norn are. Maybe not all, but some certainly are. He seems more in line with the tourny brawlers and adventurers then some of the more cunning, Norn. Course, some could be using that to make others underestimate them :P

Which was basically what I said…. XD

Indeed. Though people sometimes require it to be spelled out hehe.

You might need to link me directly to these surveys. A quick Google search for “male to female player ratio GW2” turned up a bunch of results that were talking specifically about characters, not players, which is a whole different scenario. Just as a good number of male players play female characters (usually because of the “if I’m going to spend hundreds of hours looking at someone’s rear end, I want it to be female” reason), a lot of female players also play male characters for the same reason.

Aside from that, my own personal experience in guilds is telling. My main guild has the 60-40 ratio I mentioned. Another friend’s guild I’m in is primarily comprised of female gamers. (There are like 9 girls, but only 4 guys.) A third guild is about a 70-30 ratio between males and females (I’m not that familiar with all the members, so there might be some give and take). That’s why I suspect that there is actually close to parity balance between the genders; it’s just that most female gamers see no need to reveal their gender, either because they feel it doesn’t matter, or because (sadly) they often get harassed once their gender does become known.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and therefore the quoted portion has been removed.]

That’s why I suspect that there is actually close to parity balance between the genders; it’s just that most female gamers see no need to reveal their gender, either because they feel it doesn’t matter, or because (sadly) they often get harassed once their gender does become known.

It’s not like male games run around and scream “I’m a boy! I’m a boy!” either… It’s not female gamers’ fault if other gamers just assume them to be male until proven otherwise…

If female gamers are getting harassed because of their gender something is diametrically wrong, being someone that holds the coin with two sides.

Now understand my point of view:

I believe from what I am reading A LOT of this topic has gone WAY off track, this has ceased to be a single individuals opinion about the games lore and development conflicting with fantasy and realism and more a case of political views being flaunted around as if they had ANY point in this topic at all.

You are feeding my entire point, this extremist behavior is FEEDING my point that the GAME is loosing touch with its core roots.

What is GW2?

Its a fantasy MMO RPG where players are characters in a virtual and therefore un realistic world, a world, that does not need life based scenario’s to be injected into its world because they are tropes of reality that id rather had no place in any game, any fantasy, any movie, because they are irrelevant, in storytelling.

A good story, needs a good plot, I don’t need real issues to make the benchmark for a good plot, I just need creativity, and depth, good, evil, gender is irrelevant, bias is irrelevant because in a fantasy world, bias cannot exist.

Do you call someone a racist irl because they called your Asura Big Ears? Do you fine them for it?

No, you don’t, “realism” is destroying interesting story lines because we are being forced to embrace it, and that sucks, it takes away the JOY of the fantasy world for what it is, FANTASY at its core, does not need REALITY to enhance it because in the end it is, in the end, NOT, real.

Ergo, why bring real issues, why bring lesbians, disability, and other topics into a world that doesn’t NEED it? Why do it at all when there is NO value for it other than to acknowledge its existence in reality and make a tribute point that “hey we support that and were gonna write characters in our game that are afflicted by these issues”.

You may be trying to send a message of peace but not everyone reacts to it that way, I like Kasmeer, Jory, Taimi, Rox and Braham for what they are, CHARACTERS in a FANTASY world, not political STATEMENTS in that world.

Yet more and more I see the writing shifting towards forcing us to CARE about that statement and I don’t “want” to care about it, I want to get back to the flying rubix cube, the far away Asian province, I want to get back to the interesting things that were not held back by phobia’s and fears that not acknowledging modern day society and social behavior would loose credibility with the gaming audience.

No, it would ENHANCE the respect for the writers to ELIMINATE that element of the game entirely by moving back to the core of a fantasy universe and treating it as it should be treated, a FANTASY universe with UNREALISTIC scenerio’s and UNREALISTIC characters facing situations and EVENTS that we can RELATE to, but are not necessarily DIRECT references to the day to day problems and indeed afflictions of peoples social standing, physical and mental impediments or indeed statements about gender, race, age or anything else that is a tribute to the real world.

Why, do we need ANY of that, in fantasy?

I want my Charr to shoot at Humans again because it was fun, I want bias, I “want” those things because they are PART of the universes flavor and ENHANCE it by giving freedom to an author to EXPRESS their fantasy world WITHOUT the hindrance of reality.

Simply put:

I don’t care if you like or hate men, I don’t care if you like or hate disabled people, I don’t care if its great that there’s lesbians or a lack of them in a game, because honestly, I don’t see the REASON for it in the first place.

Some may, some may even want to promote it but that’s cause fighting and it does NOT belong in writing, expressing such driven rebellions against social hierarchy can be done both SUBLIMINALLY and enjoyably, WITHOUT making a direct point about it.

Give me one reference in lord of the rings where Tolkien blatantly states that tanks invade Gondor and Germans are coming, that’s right, you cant, because he didn’t, but his entire story was about WW1 despite not having a SINGLE reference to it WHAT so ever.

That, is the genius of a well written tale, you don’t NEED to be blunt about it, you can be ENTIRELY subtle and the theme can fly right over someones head.

Instead, we need to tell everyone what this is and spell it out to them, like how Taimi is physically crippled, like how Kas and Jory spend every screen time hour loving each other in something that started enjoyable and has now become increasingly corny.

This is coming from someone that actually watched the Kas X Jory storyline BUILD UP to the point of their direct admittance of love, and when it happened it WAS enjoyable but NOW? Its forced, and it shows.

There is NO NEED to force these things and if your writing is good they can tell themselves without having to.

I don’t understand the fascination, but I will accept that given I am more or less quitting the game barring the episode updates that I will thus attain for free if I attend, I believe maybe the world I once saw in GW is all but dead under a veil of modern society and prejudice.

I miss the world that it used to be, not the one its becoming.

I can understand your frustration, but sometimes, that’s just the way the world changes. As an example, I loved the Mass Effect series when it first came out, but subsequent games made the series more and more like a FPS. The designers were obviously trying to appeal to the shooter crowd, and by ME3, the game felt so different from its roots that were it not for the emotional investment I had in the story and characters, I’d probably have abandoned it a long time ago.

But, that was the decision the devs went with, for business reasons. Things evolve and change all the time. Sometimes it will be to our liking, sometimes it won’t. We can voice our objections, and hope the devs take notice, but at the end of the day, we also have to accept that sometimes things move on without us. We are not the center of the world, and we either learn to adapt and live with the new system, or we leave and find something else more to our liking.

I hope you find a game more suited to your tastes.

That’s an unfair assumption, because, were the gender roles reversed, nobody would bat an eyelash. If we had only one female iconic and she was “the stereotypically pretty but dim witted one”, if evon was female and Kiel was male (though, to be fair, that plot point grew from a player-decided event) or hey, if We had a king of kryta and the lady leader of the seraph ran off “for love of that guy I’m kinda in to”…

It would be a social justice kittenstorm, and rightly so.

Not only that, the way the Kas/Jory romance is literally shoved in our faces every time they are together is, quite honestly, offensive to anyone in any sort of romantic relationship. You wouldn’t hang out with people that do that in real life because it’s equal parts rude and annoying, no matter what their sexual orientation was.

Equality isn’t about misrepresentation in the opposite direction. It’s about fair and honest representation. Moreover, it’s about establishing characters that feel honest and true to form.

Take a look at Bioware’s Dragon Age games. There’s no shortage of bisexual or gay characters. There’s no shortage of strong female characters, or females in positions of power. However none of the bi/gay characters are defined by that trait. The game isn’t overwhelmingly slanted toward strong females (or misogynistic males)

Zevran is… let’s say he’s a free spirit, but he’s not DEFINED by that. Isabella on the other hand, sexuality is a big part of her character.. Merril, Sigrun, Aveline, and the vast majority of female character are, however not hopeless stereotypical sexpots, and the vast majority of gay or bisexual characters (Anders, Liliana, etc.) are not hopelessly flamboyant flirts. Those types of characters exist, but are not the rule of law.

In GW2, female is increasingly becoming shorthand for “Spunky, hard working, and clever” and male is shorthand for “Angry, stupid, and boastful”

This is a problem not because there are so many female characters, but because all of them are defined by their merits, where as the male characters are defined by their flaws.

That’s not a misogynist statement. It’s not saying women should conform to preconceived gender roles. It’s not assuming the innate superiority of males. It’s calling attention to the inequality in gender treatment among these fictional characters. It’s just as sloppy a way to write as making all of the females sexy desire objects that are good cooks. It creates a world and characters that are unbelievable because they don’t represent a wide scope of individual identity across the scope of the relatively unimportant traits of gender or sexual orientation.

GW2’s release content wasn’t written this way. It’s much more varied in its characterization and depth of characters as people rather than a collection of gender specific internal tropes.

[Moderator note: this post quotes a post that was deemed inappropriate and therefore the quoted portion has been removed.]

Captain Vanguard, for someone who says they read a lot of fantasy, you seem to have a hard time putting yourself into the story from the character’s perspective.

Taimi is an Asura. To try and fit her into a 13-year-old human prodigy’s shoes is to minimize what Anet is doing with this game. Asurans are not human. They don’t think like we do. They act similarly, in many ways, but the are NOT the same. If you spent time in-game talking with her, when she is there as an ambient, not as part of your LS, you would have seen her say she has good days, and she has bad days. You would have seen her, in the LS, acting like the child she is (MINE! You can’t have it!). And you would have seen her rely on others and admit to fear. She is developing, as a character. Yes, she is disabled. Sometimes it causes her trouble. But she copes. While you, and a small minority of gamers dislike having a disabled NPC, the vast majority approve.

And Braham. You say he is a stereotypical ‘dumb muscle male’, so to speak, yet he understands Taimi’s technical explanations better and faster than anyone else. He just puts it in terms that are not technical. So not so dumb, after all. As far as him ‘rushing in’ without thinking, again, you are not happy because they don’t fit human reactions. Norns believe that they need to make themselves a legend. They won’t get that if they stand back and wait for others to jump in first. He is also a teenage boy. Most of the teenage boys I have known have had a bit of an inflated view of their own physical abilities. They also tend to think they are a bit immortal. Put that all together, and you get Braham. Not dumb, just not human.

Kas and Marj. As far as they are concerned, yes, the mushy stuff is a bit over the top. BUT… they are still in their ‘honeymoon phase’ so to speak. If I’m not mistaken, everything has happened in a very short span of time. It may be weeks for us to get it all, but in-game time, it has been only days to a week or two. I’ve seen a lot of heterosexual partners, in that short of time, still be all lovey-dovey. If your biggest complaint is because they are lesbians, and doing this, well, that speaks for itself.

To quote you, “But I digress, this will be my final post, this proves to me that the community of GW2 is like a tolerant animal, you agree with it and it will happily cater to you but the moment you speak even a single voice of difference it lashes at you like a rabid beast.”

If you read your posts, you have lashed a few, too. Given that, let me sum up your posts for this entire thread:

“I don’t like having disabled people, lesbians, or non-metrosexual males in my game. I know others feel the same way I do. Anet needs to fix this. Oh, and make the game darker, grittier, and such as well for the character types I don’t like. They don’t deserve better.”

and, “I posted an unpopular opinion, and had most of the people that saw it tell me how wrong I was. I feel so put upon, even though I had my say, they can’t disagree in MY thread. It hurts my feelings and makes me feel I am not a special snowflake anymore. I quit!”

Enjoy your game. Or not. Just please, do us all the favor of not expecting us to believe as you do, want what you do, or pander to you when you express differing views.

Actually I feel like my final post was a pretty biased and sharp one so instead ill try to leave with a lighter note.

I respectfully decline what I feel is a game that may not be for me, right now at least, maybe in time it will be again and the episodes do have merit, but its just not what I’m looking for.

The phrasing might make more sense to put it this way rather than posting at 5AM feeling tired and a bit fed up.

Simply put, I hope those that do enjoy the game for what it is continue to do so, but I myself feel like there is something I need before I can return to it, personally, and that is entirely my view.

I have heard similar things being said on Reddit, but I cant speak for weather they will all come out and say it openly.

I guess that’s just me.

Still, I wish everyone the best in terms of the game and I do hope that the story continues to develop in a generally enjoyable atmosphere to all, but eventually maybe expand to appease an even wider audience still, like those wanting something more.

Take care everyone, that’s it from me, for a while I suspect.

The OP and others have restated their thoughts on the matter multiple times. Everyone will just have to agree to disagree. This thread is now closed.