Guild Wars 2

…or, rather: Doesn’t.

This is something that came up in an aside in another post, but it’s something that I’ve been getting increasingly annoyed by the more I think about it.

Yes, charr PCs have that moment where they can intimidate a bully into leaving Camp Resolve… but scaring off one grunt is small fries considering that the charr PC has their own warband they could induct Rox into. By midway through S2, even if we discount S1, the PC has had more of an opportunity to see what Rox is capable of then you have for most of the warband members you meet in the early Personal Story. Perhaps it’s too complicated to have Rox be a member of the warband for charr and a gladium for other PCs, and maybe there’s some rule or another that stops the PC from simply being able to declare “right, she’s part of my warband now” (I think she’s technically Blood, so for an Ash or Iron PC to make such a declaration they’d need to get Rytlock to sign off on it and Rox would have to be willing to change legions) but the charr NPC should be able to make the offer.

Putting that aside, though, there’s the scene in S2E3 where Rytlock reams Rox for not killing Scarlet personally. The line, as I recall, is “if our friend hadn’t been there, Scarlet would still be devastating Tyria one city at a time”. Afterwards, the PC asks if Rytlock might be going too kitten her, Rytlock basically says that someone has to, and it gets shrugged off like it’s okay.

Except it’s not. It’s not as if the PC suddenly came out of nowhere and tackled Scarlet moments before stepped through a portal, cackling and twirling a spinachy moustache all the way. Rox made a tactical decision knowing full well that the PC was there – and since lorewise the PC has been presented as a better fighter than any of the biconics (and possibly among Destiny’s Edge as well) it makes sense that it would be the best fighter that moves in to do the job.

Had Rox followed her orders from Rytlock back there, then there’s two possibilities. Either Marjory and Braham would have had to be left on their own… in which case Marjory at least, and possibly Braham, would be dead. Undesirable outcome. Or it would have had to have been the PC or Kasmeer who stayed back to look after the wounded. In which case, it’s entirely possible that Scarlet’s final defenses could have succeeded and she might have escaped to “continue wrecking Tyria one city at a time”.

At best, Rytlock is being a bully. At worst, he’s insulting the PC by implying that it was only by luck that the PC and Kasmeer were able to finish off a downed Scarlet, and that it would have been better for Rytlock to leave Braham and Marjory to an uncertain fate than to trust the Slayer of Zhaitan to be able to get on with it.

She made the right call under the circumstances, for which she should be being rewarded, not punished. Perhaps it’s important to the story for this injustice to continue, but the PC should be able to at least attempt to do more to call it out than intimidating some random grunt.

While I do agree that Rytlock was unnecessarily tough on Rox (the PC calls him out on it, even if your PC is a Charr), I looked at it more as an example of the kind of value system Charr have. In their militaristic society, completing the objective is the most important thing. No matter the cost, no matter the casualties. Failure is worse than death to them. Rox wanted to join a warband that often, due to the nature of war, has to make some extremely tough decisions, and Rytlock was only treating Rox as she would be expected to behave should she join them.

But on a personal level, I suspect Rytlock is secretly glad Rox made the choice she did. He probably knew that she didn’t really fit in with the Stone warband, but he couldn’t bring himself to outright deny her entrance.

Zaxares.5419:

In their militaristic society, completing the objective is the most important thing. No matter the cost, no matter the casualties. Failure is worse than death to them. Rox wanted to join a warband that often, due to the nature of war, has to make some extremely tough decisions, and Rytlock was only treating Rox as she would be expected to behave should she join them.

That seems all the more reason Rytlock should approve of Rox’s choice, though. A military is more than just a large number of individual soldiers; a military has to be able to act as a cohesive fighting force in times of crisis.

Rox chose the option that minimized casualties and maximized the chances of the group achieving the objective. It seems like that should be something that someone from a military culture would value more highly than individual showboating, not less.

On the first part:

I considered that, but the case is in that the objective was completed. Scarlet is dead, and Rox was part of the team that took her down. From the charr attitude of “victory at any cost”… victory WAS achieved. For Rox, the cost was letting someone else get the glory.

One could say that technically she disobeyed an order… but history has shown that militaries are more efficient when they allow the people on the ground to find the best way to achieve their assigned objectives, rather than expecting them to carry out their orders to the letter (this is part of how the Germans did so well early in WW2, particularly against the Russians who were conditioned to follow their orders to the letter – and it was when Hitler started interfering with this that the Germans started taking decisive losses). It’s possible that there was some secondary objective requiring Rox to do the deed that we aren’t aware of, but as far as our PCs are concerned the objective was completed, Rox was part of it, and it shouldn’t matter who actually did the deed. Heck, if the PC and the biconics had been thinking, they could have agreed among themselves to give Rox the credit, and Rytlock might never have known.

On the personal level: there are indications here and there that Rytlock doesn’t particularly like his warband himself, so your suspicion is probably on the mark. And there may then be some political reason on top of that which essentially requires Rytlock to give Rox a hard time under the circumstances even if he’d prefer not to. Even so, though, these are things that the PCs are not party to (most of the hints that Rytlock doesn’t get along with his warband are in EoD) so we should at least have the opportunity to give him a hard time about it. Particularly when he returns, since we’ve now seen firsthand what the results of that policy are on Rox.

EDIT: Plus, as Anakita said, for a warband-based military culture, helping your unit get the job done while minimising casualties should be valued more highly than individual showboating.

i think lore wise rox is rytlocks half sister as well like same father different mother or vice versa. and also explains the senpai notice me trying to prove her self to an older brother thing. and lore wise rytlock is sort of different from other charr and had to act more ruthless then usual so he was sort of the outcast even if in a warband.

You also have to consider Rytlock’s position as Tribune. He has to be tough on anyone wanting to join his warband, because they will be held to a much higher standard than any Centurion’s warband.

One of the issues with the living story is the lack of complicated dialogue trees. In other words most of the conversations are short, to the point and the PC is only given a single response in most cases. Which has led to several issues of players not agree with what was said or not said. However until ANet starts giving us options (even if they have no influence on events) this is something we’ll have to just get use to.

I agree. Wholeheartedly- unless our character knows something that the players don’t, I hate that we aren’t able to do more for Rox. She needs someone other than Braham to act like they give a crap about her and we’re in a position to do that, especially if the PC is a Charr.

But we don’t.

Throughout these characters’ stories Rox has been the one that resonates with me the most. I’m not sure why- maybe I’m just a sucker for tough hard luck cases. But she has the most emotionally painful life of any character I’m aware of in GW2, and yet still is warm and kind and works her kitten off.

Rytlock is a total, unmitigated kittenbag to her- to the point that I really hope it turns out he’s her biological father with an unusual if weirdly expressed level of concern for her. That’s the only thing that, for me, makes his actions with her fit into his otherwise generally epic aura of awesomeness.

I think in some later storyline we should get to straight up duel Rytlock to force him to back the hell down. And then later we should find out he let us win because that was the only way he could justify it.

As far as getting Rox into your warband, nah. Offering her a spot in your warband would actually make less sense to me. Basically from the start of her introduction (and certainly from the point where you know her enough to where you’d offer her a spot) she’s already trying to get into Rytlock’s warband. I don’t think stepping in and “stealing” one of Rytlock’s potential recruits would be a very good idea. I’m not 100% sure that sort of thing is looked down on in Charr society or not, but it seems like it could be. And Rox probably wouldn’t be interested in the offer anyway, since she seems quite determined to get into Rytlock’s warband specifically, not just any warband that’ll take her (not that the players’ warband would be “just some random warband”, but still).

Plus, its somewhat unclear how much of an active connection your Charr has to their warband at this point anyway. Far as the storyline is concerned, you’re basically on an extended leave of absence from your warband while you attend to Order and Pact business. The story never really mentions you going back to active warband service even after Zhaitan’s death, so its conceivable you’re still on leave, in which case waltzing in and saying “Hey, here’s a new recruit for the warband” would be somewhat odd.

As for standing up for Rox in terms of Rytlock’s scolding of her… I don’t really see how the PC needed to step in and defend her.

Rytlock yelled at her for a few seconds for disobeying a direct order (which she did, since her orders were to kill Scarlet in no uncertain terms and whatever the cost). Not exactly the end of the world. He could have done much, much worse if he actually felt she was in the wrong. Heck, even Rox herself at some point says he would have been within his rights to kill her on the spot for it, I believe. To me, he clearly felt it was the right choice to make, but all the same he’s not just going to let the disobedience slide without at the very least calling her out on it and giving her a bit of grief.

Rox is a big girl, I’m sure she can handle a bit of scolding.

The impression I get is that the acting legionnaire – and the warband as a whole – is still fairly fiercely loyal to the PC. Additionally, the lore seems to be that the warband is something that the PC can call on at times – ergo skills like Warband Support and Artillery Barrage – it’s just not something that is focused on in the story because that would involve putting story elements in that are only for charr characters. Either way, if the PC were to sponsor someone to join the warband, I suspect the rest wouldn’t object, especially since all the senior members apart from the sparring partner were recruited by the PC. Particularly since it would be on the assumption that

When it comes to “poaching” – well, we don’t really know what the charr attitude to that is, do we? Still, the impression I got at the end of S1 and in early S2 was that Rytlock had essentially decided that Rox had chosen the “biconics” group over the warband, and Rox… was pretty much okay with this. She’d been having second thoughts herself about whether the Stone warband was really right for her. So she’s essentially decided on the biconics as her surrogate warband, with the PC being the “boss” of that group. So, from a charr perspective, as surrogate legionnaire, it could be interpreted as the PC’s duty to stand up for her. And when the PC is also a charr, to formalise the arrangement.

When it comes to the scolding…

The problem is, in a society like that of the charr, the rank and file tend to take their cues from the leaders. Rytlock’s extreme chewing out of Rox in front of other soldiers has likely given the impression that she’s brought a great dishonour upon herself (which she hasn’t really, certainly not from the PC’s point of view) and that it’s appropriate for everybody to give her a hard time – something we see in Camp Resolve. Sure, she can handle a bit of scolding – but being made a target for every bully in the legions that feels like venting some steam? The example in Camp Resolve is just the one that happened to be indiscreet enough as to do it while the Commander of the Pact was around.

Now, there may be good reasons, both in- and out-of-game, why the PC can’t do more… but I think they should at least be able to try.

Well, no, I’m sure they wouldn’t reject the proposal of Rox joining based on the PC’s recommendation. I just think it’d be a bit odd for the PC to come back, say “Hey, she’s in the warband now” and then both the PC and Rox leave again. Adding more members to the warband would seem to be more of a thing you’d do when you’re on active duty in the Citadel or with the Legion, not while you’re out on Pact business.

I’d have to go and play the Camp Resolve instance again to be sure as I don’t 100% remember the details, but I don’t believe that Charr giving Rox a hard time had anything to do with her failing to kill Scarlet. From what I remember, it was more related to the incident with her previous warband and her being a gladium, as I believe she called him an old acquaintance. So I don’t really think you can claim Rytlock made her a “target” based on that. Though I could be mistaken.

And gladium all get treated that way, so I’d actually expect any Charr PC to be used to that and even potentially have some of that bias themselves. If anything, maybe it’d be the other races who didn’t understand the dynamic who would speak up about it more.

draxynnic.3719:

.Yes, charr PCs have that moment where they can intimidate a bully into leaving Camp Resolve…
[…]

Could you tell me where, please?

I never noticed, I want to experience it with my own character

Maxwell.7843:

draxynnic.3719:

.Yes, charr PCs have that moment where they can intimidate a bully into leaving Camp Resolve…
[…]

Could you tell me where, please?

I never noticed, I want to experience it with my own character

Its in the “Reuniting with the Pact” mission in Echoes of the Past

I found the bit, thanks