Guild Wars 2

Or get exotic gear and decent weapons and don’t bother dodging at all unless it’s a silver or above mob, GG.

I’m glad this post is helping lots of people out. =)
It’s really cool seeing people improve dramaticlly.

Iike last night, I saw an Elementalist who was pretty much always going downed state, but after showing him this Post and after showing him some examples of how to take advantage on attunment swaping to use the right skill at the right time, he’s playing like an Pro!

Honestly, there are amazing, good and talented players in this game, that just lack of knowledge are holding them down. I find people I help out, to even get to the point of surpassing me in many ways.

=) Keep up the good work peeps!

Dungeons are about zerging. There is no real form of controlling or maintaining any sort of taunt. Know when to roll and you will be ok. Learn the simple strats and dungeons are cake and unchallenging.

CC Meinke.2749:

Raine.1394:

I almost made it through, but stopped at “There are NO BABYSITTERS”. Sorry, tanks and healers are not babysitters. Tanks are tanks; healers are healers.

This is true, please refrain from using that phrase since it might be insulting for other players. It just causes arguments and a bad mood in the community.

Thanks for your understanding.

Greetings

rly? now is a normal proffession… a job which a lot of people do to get some money offensive? i really feel like you are the offensive one to those who do this proffession, there is nothing wrong with it! Or do you want to tell that its degradationing to be a babysitter for some?

now to the OP, amazing post tyvm for this, i hate soo bad those warriors who claims it sucks to be the “only tank” in group and quit or rage in dungeons couse everyone play ranged in there, i really think its they own fault if they dont manage it.

++ for the thread, should be a side in the wiki!

Amen.2630:

CC Meinke.2749:

Raine.1394:

I almost made it through, but stopped at “There are NO BABYSITTERS”. Sorry, tanks and healers are not babysitters. Tanks are tanks; healers are healers.

This is true, please refrain from using that phrase since it might be insulting for other players. It just causes arguments and a bad mood in the community.

Thanks for your understanding.

Greetings

rly? now is a normal proffession… a job which a lot of people do to get some money offensive? i really feel like you are the offensive one to those who do this proffession, there is nothing wrong with it! Or do you want to tell that its degradationing to be a babysitter for some?

now to the OP, amazing post tyvm for this, i hate soo bad those warriors who claims it sucks to be the “only tank” in group and quit or rage in dungeons couse everyone play ranged in there, i really think its they own fault if they dont manage it.

++ for the thread, should be a side in the wiki!

@ Amen
Believe it or not, Warriors have amazing Control/Support skills, as well as Damage Skills that are direct and indirect like condition effects. I play Warrior myself and in Dungoens I always enjoy coordinating with my team. I rarely die since I’m always on my feet trying to evade attks and keep control on enemy with my team. Though I do take hits at times. lol A good strategy is all it takes to run things smoothly.

You should give the class a try though. You might just like it.

@ Zai Th
Also, “Control” is not the same as “Agro”.

Agro = You have the enemey’s attantion.
Control has nothing to do with taking enemy’s attantion. lol =P

For my Information Regarding GW2’s Combat system,
Please Visit:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/

We need more posters like you, OP. Thanks for posting this – it’s very well written and informative.

ZaiTh.6378:

Dungeons are about zerging. There is no real form of controlling or maintaining any sort of taunt. Know when to roll and you will be ok. Learn the simple strats and dungeons are cake and unchallenging.

I agree. Dodge when you need to, move out of bad floor when you need to, and have a little surv. built into your build and theres no need for a tank specced guardian or warrior.

If you actually know how to play your class, you’ll be just fine.

Sion.1653:

We need more posters like you, OP. Thanks for posting this – it’s very well written and informative.

Well, its not THAT informative. Its pretty basic, generic and softballed which I guess would fall into a “101” type of thread. However, this information is probably available on the guildwars2.com website somewhere or on the wiki. If people are savvy enough to navigate to this thread on the forums, then they can find the wiki information. Furthermor, I would also say that if you are on the forums, you probably know these basics and would have no need for it.

Still, I support what the OP is trying to do which is to say, in basic understanding “Heres three important facets of the combat, this is how the game is designed. Work with the game, not against it”.

I appreciate the info!

Regarding the holy trinity, I like to think of it as everyone is now their own holy trinity.

Thanks for the Support guys <3

@ Cesmode
I appreciate your support as well. It’s actually very imformative for those new to game or dont really do much research or experimenting like we do bro. But I totally know what you are saying and agree.

Also, when I do help friends out, or newbies, I could always refer them to this thread 1st before I help them learn the class next. Learning the Class is the easy part, But I seen to many people dying too fast, im talking about new players and such, just because they dont move or dodge enough, or dont understand how Control Skills and Support skills work entirely. I see people focus too much on DPS and take too much damage which results in death or downed state.

My goal is for this thread to help inform people who dont know these basics.
It’s definantly a good “101” post in my opinion.

Again, I havn’t posted anything about “Combo fields” and “Combo Finishers” since I feel it’s more of an “Advanced” thing and not anywhere near “Basics”.

=) Again, I apppreciate your support guys! Let’s help people learn the system, play it for what it is and try to enjoy the game and what it offers.

Thanks dude, this was some really good information. I really like how you described everything and put it into perspective. This will be able to help many others. Just keep up the good work friend.

I’m glad the information has helped you out.
=) The more players learn the better. Keep up the good work.

Lemuria.3195:

There’s an old phrase which is pertinent to this game. Jack of all trades, master of none. You can try and be everything at once and fail horribly, or you can play to your strengths and succeed. Not every class was built equal, so why treat them as such?

while i agree with OP and most of the people endorsing some balance in your character/build, this quote also rings true.

take the thief for example. you can stack as much vit and toughness and healing power on one but you’ll still be relatively squishy, mostly because the class wasnt designed to be heavily played as a “tanky” sort of class.

i really do like GW2’s combat system and the way classes can work together. i wouldnt say they entirely threw out the concept of the trinity, but rather improved upon it or made it different and more entertaining and not completely mandatory. ive done dungeons in which there was not a single heavy armor class in the group and we fared just as well as if there was one. i guess its just what you want to make of it.

ZaiTh.6378:

Dungeons are about zerging. There is no real form of controlling or maintaining any sort of taunt. Know when to roll and you will be ok. Learn the simple strats and dungeons are cake and unchallenging.

Yea the aggro/hate system is opaque to the extreme.

First is the issue that different groups get very different behavior out of the same mobs. Sometimes they will bounce between whoever is doing the most damage or get close, other times they will focus on one member in particular, even to the point of dropping everything else if the member walks back into the room after a waypoint rez.

Second is that there is no way to at least temporarily make the mob shift his focus elsewhere. This so that group members can take a breather and heal up, or simply tag teaming. Especially annoying with the CC immunity they put in on larger mobs. Yes, you can still interrupt that one attack. But you can’t say fear him off the downed party member unless you happen to hit him when the immunity stack is at its lowest.

End result is a repeating mix of dog pile and chicken run.

In essence, there are very few ways to control the flow of the fight no matter how experienced and coordinated the party is. The best may simply be to always run with the same party setup and perform rote memorization of mob behaviors to it.

forrae.6708:

Lemuria.3195:

There’s an old phrase which is pertinent to this game. Jack of all trades, master of none. You can try and be everything at once and fail horribly, or you can play to your strengths and succeed. Not every class was built equal, so why treat them as such?

while i agree with OP and most of the people endorsing some balance in your character/build, this quote also rings true.

take the thief for example. you can stack as much vit and toughness and healing power on one but you’ll still be relatively squishy, mostly because the class wasnt designed to be heavily played as a “tanky” sort of class.

i really do like GW2’s combat system and the way classes can work together. i wouldnt say they entirely threw out the concept of the trinity, but rather improved upon it or made it different and more entertaining and not completely mandatory. ive done dungeons in which there was not a single heavy armor class in the group and we fared just as well as if there was one. i guess its just what you want to make of it.

Only reason certain classes use heavy armor is because they are at risk of taking more damage up close. Even tho theif does up close, it has survivability just like all the classes to be able to stay in “Control” while “Supporting” itself and contributing in “Damage” effectivly.

Main problem I see is players acting like meat shield “Usually end up dying”, and spamming skills, which ends up with same results of death.

The idea of stacking vits and heals isnt so you can tank or main heal, it’s so you have a longer survival in fight. Just because you make a tanky build character, doesnt mean you have to excuse to take damage in a dangerous combat sanario. Your suppose to move and dodge and use control and support skills while dealing damage.

As of right now, No hate control means we all have to work together as a team in coordination.

Yes, there are situations that taking hits are unavoidable, but that doesnt mean you cant reduce the damage you take from skills and movements alone. Something I notice people dont understand sadly.

The more people I help out ingame, the more people realize how to play their classes to their full capabilities. To me, what’s important is people to have fun as they learn about things they never knew they could do. =)

this is very helpful. thank you.

Suits D.2385:

this is very helpful. thank you.

No problem. =) I’m glad it’s helping.

Ichishi.9613:

Bosses in dungeons are so overstatted in health and resists that most of the time sacrificing even a bit of damage for more control is just slowing yourself down. As long as you have that awareness.

For example. A so called support-focused ele. Boons, heals, removes conditions. But, again – limited to 5 allies – makes sense there are 5 man parties. So at least one of 5 people in party is sacrificing damage for support. And lets see where is goes in game:
You need to stay together to benefit from support fully – but you need to spread from boss damage
You want to heal people – but they must stay away from damage
You want to save that guy who just misdodged and got hit for half hp – but you don’t have directs heals or boons to give him.
That is exactly what happens to support later in game, exactly what happened to me.
You come in and say – ill be support. It works wonders at start, but then people start to dodge, hide, move. Start to bring self-boons. And you turn from a pug-savior you were into a “we don’t have enough damage”.

A minor investment into utility on a more or less glassy but CANNON on every party member is by far better that one person dedicated to that.
A simple calculation – you need to be able to maintain crazy amounts of might and fury on whole party to compensate your damage loss on support oriented build. Most likely you don’t even have to be in a support build to give those boons out. Than why roll one?
Sadly, in terms of contribution, the best support for any kind of pve in almost any situation is a zero support investment engi. 24 stacks of vuln 24/7 beats everything.

I agree with DreamyAbaddon, after seeing his naked training (fight no armor and take no hits) I thinks its amazing that people can be this good, for the most part I feel the pve content is made so people who arent so good can do it, but I also think Ichishi has a point, there are some parts that are just jerkish so I’ve pretty much built my Guardian to aegis spam and support the people who arent that good yet while dodging myself, at times it feels like the only cards anet has with dungeons is ‘million mob march’ or ‘million hp 1-hit ko boss’ so I’ve basically made it so I can save people and do a little damage, the feeling of sucesses is great but sometimes you just want to kill that jerk (I’m looking at you Lieutenant Kohler) because hes just not fun or fair, still great post DreamyAbaddon an il tell you when I can record your trainning ok.

Players also need to learn how to interact effectively with their team. Different builds will be more or less effective depending on whether you’re solo, with a buddy, in a party, in a zerg, etc. Someone above alluded to the complexity of the combat system with combos, and I have to agree with that. Some skills that seem weak in solo play are incredibly effective in groups; on my necro, playing with wells (TONS of nice combo fields) has taught me just how powerful a well-placed field can be in a group setting. Well of Darkness pulses for five seconds, applies blind on each pulse (and chill, and lifesteal if you’re so traited). In solo play, it’s an ok skill; if you’re balling stuff up and killing lots of mobs at once, it’s decent, but personally I’ve found throwing in BiP instead and utilizing my other wells to be more effective. But in group play, here’s what it turns into:

Allies firing projectiles through it steal life. Extra damage, and a little party-wide heal.

Blast finishers apply AoE blind. Sucks up the damage, especially from hard-hitting foes.

Leap finishers blind single targets.

Whirl finishers throw out tons of lifesteal projectiles. Extra damage, and healing.

So this one skill just went from a “meh” solo skill to a VERY strong party support skill, just by the addition of other party members and their actions. With all the blind and lifesteal, a well-placed Well of Darkness in a dungeon has completely mitigated incoming damage from mobs and provided some nice healing for party members for its duration many a time for me. Mass spawn of gravelings threatening to wipe your party? Well of Darkness. Congrats, you’re all untouchable and they’re all dead.

Anyway, went a little more in-depth than I intended with that, but that’s ONE SKILL. Think of all the fields available, and all the finishers, and all the ways that a player’s build can be adjusted between solo and group play. And a lot of players don’t pay much attention to the fact that they can change their build on the fly! Traits are locked in their respective values, of course, but even for the same trait numbers, a plethora of different builds are available. Switch out your Major Traits, weapons, and utilities in between fights and you can go from DPS focused to Condition/Debuff focused to Support/Buff focused. I can not only play a number of different roles on one character, I can play many of them within the space of one instance.

A lot of the problem comes from players coming from games where your character is “self-contained”. Yes, you might be a healer, and you might help your party that way, but in the end your skill bar is what defines what you can do. GW2 is the first game I’ve personally played with such a massive increase in effectiveness by utilizing cross-player combos and mechanics. As a Guardian, the minor trait that recharges Justice on a kill is… “meh” for solo play. But throw in four other players and some trash mobs, and you have an AoE flame-spamming machine of burning death. I guess what I’m saying is, “Ask not what your character can do for you; ask what everyone else’s character can do for you too.” Players compound each others’ power just by coincidentally interacting with skills. Imagine the potential for power if it was planned and coordinated.

@ MasterOfMistakes

^^ I still havn’t showed you my Elementalist and Mesmer.
hehe.

@ Orion

I find people who limit themselves to “Healing/supporting” while having access to lots of different skills for Damage/Control/Support are people who are gimping themselves and their capabilities when they could be even more benifitial in contributing in other ways.

I agree with your quote:
“In the end your skill bar is what defines what you can do. "

All skills are useful for different situations. I find your example interesting with the “Finishers”. Nice job going indepth with it. =)

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

@ MasterOfMistakes

^^ I still havn’t showed you my Elementalist and Mesmer.
hehe.

@ Orion

I find people who limit themselves to “Healing/supporting” while having access to lots of different skills for Damage/Control/Support are people who are gimping themselves and their capabilities when they could be even more benifitial in contributing in other ways.

I agree with your quote:
“In the end your skill bar is what defines what you can do. "

All skills are useful for different situations. I find your example interesting with the “Finishers”. Nice job going indepth with it. =)

I agree with you about exclusive focus on a particular role. Personally, I find it’s quite viable to focus on a particular role, while also maintaining at least average ability in the other two. It’s when you just throw everything towards “pure d33pz” or “ep1c he4lz” and ignoring anything else that you run into trouble. I figured this out during the BWE’s when I tried to run a total support guard; now as a hybrid, I can do just as well supporting my party, while also contributing nicely to damage and a little control (aside from some pulls, guards don’t have a ton of control). Essentially, every character has to contribute in some way to all three combat components, but any character can choose to focus one; there are diminishing (and even negative) returns on focusing past a certain point, though.

ty for the information it help me understand better my role in the game

Nayru.3947:

GW2 combat system 101

Auto Attack
Dodge
Dodge
Auto Attack

Repeat.

My post is suppose to help newbies out who don’t understand the depth of the Combat system to it’s basic form.

You can’t expect to survive with just Auto-Attk and Dodge. If you do then you aren’t contributing enough in events. The beauty of how the combat works in this game is all classes can contribute each other and be self effeciant.

The way you described combat is enough to get you killed when doing Dungoens or soloing certain events or vets. Even champions.

Unless you rely on other people to do the hard work for you, that’s not how you want to play. lol This game take’s lots of depth in combat. lots of strategies can be made.

This is actually pretty smart. Don’t think about DPS or Healing, think about everything at once XD. Seriously though, if you’re concentrating on a single weapon (or element for ele), then you’re doing it wrong. Swap weapons when skills are on cooldown and be smart about what you use and when. That way, you and your team can stay in control of the fight and win.

This helped me out so much since I am used to games with dedicated roles (Tank/healer/dps) and this game has none of that. Since reading this I notice I am dieing a lot less and contributing a lot more in my dungeon groups. This is a must read for anyone new to GW2.

Yes, these sort of write-ups are important for understanding the game. There is actually a lot to process on the battlefield and learning to decipher the concepts listed in the OP in the active battlefield is what will improve your play and help you understand that it’s not a zerg but a busy ballet.

Amazing post and incredibly helpful. It’s much easier to play the game when you understand the mindset behind the combat system. It’s definitely not the same as a traditional MMO. Thanks a ton for all the help!

I like the way that you State what the 3 main parts are but also say how you can’t just rely on one. If there is one thing I have seen it is that the people who only focus on one of these aspects have a massive drop in potential and that having a more balanced play style and build could improve what they are doing in everything. It is also great that you noted to how movement is a great thing to use in all situations as not only can you evade many attacks but you can also make it so your enemy can not evade any of your attacks without much success.

I’m so glad I didn’t play WoW enough to be brainwashed by the role system. I like to think of this game as more action than RPG.

I personally would like to make a heartfelt thanks for the post, i am only starting to get to grips with the mechanics of the game but where before i was just charging in (warrior obviously and just hacking my way through crowds this thread has shown me how to really think about my build and how to actually make the most of things, i understand what some people have said but seeing combat as a series of Damage/control/support has really given me a boost to what i can do. Personally… Thank you

enter ‘combo’ in search inside this thread. number of results tells how useful it is. imho if you are not using combos, you are playing different game.

Great guide, thanks!

I truly can’t thank you enough; not only for posting this amazingly helpful guide, but for lending your time and aid as my personal GW2 Trainer and Mentor. I look forward to your future lessons!

Terrific guide for the combat system and good examples on your roles as you play every profession. Totally agree with the damage / control / suport thing and its something worth training if you want survivability.

I for one agree with the OP. It seems that most of the tactics I see beeing used by players are these very same ones. I also follow this idea of Control/Support/Damage, like any good tactic you need to have a balance of each. Although I am not a very good player atm I do find that regardless of class you cannot focus too greatly on one otherwise you end up jeopardizing your very survivabilty. I for one will use these methods stated by the OP.

Thank you OP, I will make sure to follow these ideas when I level up my chars or assist in dungeon runs with pugs, friends, or guildmates.

Ran into Dreamy Abbadon this evening. I typically solo in most MMORPGS as I’m more into the exploration than anything. So I tend to miss out on several of the “finer points”. Anyway we got into a conversation. Dreamy offered to show me a few tricks, which turned out to be quite the lesson in “how things work in GW2”. I was aware of various control techniques, since my one character (lv 80 Necro) has LOTS of pets. And uses them to knock down or blind enemies while I shoot them up. But watching DA take down creatures so fast, I really thought I’d simply specced mine poorly. After getting a very in-depth demonstration of the power of balancing Control, Support, and Damage I do think I did a bit better. At least was more AWARE of what I needed at a particular time. Oddly, though, DA taught me something even MORE important. As a largely solo player, I sometimes miss part of the basics. Could not figure out how he could run in circles and shoot. I had zero peripheral vision while running in circles. As it turns out, that was because I was ONLY USING THE WASD keys. Q & E are well worth learning to use! Thanks again for all the help Dreamy. It seems you CAN teach an old dog new tricks.

I also ran into DreamyAbaddon. I saw DA take down Svanir on a warrior with no amulet, no runes, no sigils and no traits, just weapon and utility skills and I couldn’t help but think that DA is clearly doing something right.

After watching DA take down Svanir several times i realize that my play style was largely similar to the Svanir AI (running around chasing people, trying to kill them as fast as possible). Also in pubs i also notice this play style among a large number of players. Learning and applying what DA has taught would be the first step to actually becoming an actual threat in higher levels of play.

I hope i run into more players like DA who are willing to help players improve and also keep PvP interesting

I had the pleasure to meet DreamyAbbadon yesterday. He was nice enough give and show me a few pointers. He did exactly what he wrote in the original post and backed it up by taking on Svanir and took minimal to no damage at all (even without armor and traits). The guide is very useful and I recommend anyone to read it over and try it out.

Bumped Thread
Please Check out a new Thread I have Posted with better details the 3 combat mechanic and new info on Traits/Armor/Weapons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/GW2-Combat-system-101-1