Guild Wars 2

I posted this in a reply to another thread but alot of people don’t like reading 66 posts later to see it but this will help the community better understand this VERY HOT issue as I notice people continue to post and don’t really know what “Endgame” means and what Endgamers want and that’s alot of TYRIANS!

The game itself is sort of in a sense endgame through out and not at the same time especially for PVE. The content isn’t challenging enough to be considered endgame content. Sorry~

For those saying that WoW created the ideal of Endgame, that’s quite wrong. Endgame existed in early MMO’s before WoW’s time. Endgame came into existence because players at one point or another MAX level, professions and content over a period of days or years. Something as gamers, we’ve experienced many times.

At one point or another, people will all hit 80 in this game and have done 90% of content and have maxed professions. At that point, if there is nothing beyond that, the game becomes dull, like D3, even though it is a different genre. People will hit 80 and will max everything. That’s inevitable in MMO’s.

Alot of people say that levels don’t matter in this game. They do. You can only do certain zones properly once you hit those levels, you can only do certain dungeons when you hit certain levels, you can only farm certain materials until your level allows you to reach those zones, Levels do matter, its just not as much as they used too. The down scaling of levels was a great idea and well done feature. I can finally run around with my siblings who are always lower level in every game in our past 15 years of gaming.

Endgame content was designed to be hard and challenging, something to keep players occupied in the world when they hit the end of the road. In GW2 your occupied all the time but eventually, you’ll have done most the content and you’ll end up at this point. At “Endgame.” When you have done it all! This is what endgame truly is. The game GW2 gives the feel of endgame throughout but its not “Endgame.”

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

The world events are challenging but they aren’t what people would call end-game challenging and they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds. If GW2 attaches new dungeons and they are of similar difficulty and 5-man size, people become bored quickly, same with world events. Easy isn’t always fun, cause its not satisfying, look at the WoW raid-finder crisis. Just think why strong fighters are always wanting to fight stronger fighters. No fun in beating up wimps who provide no challenge, well I’m sure it’d be somewhat amusing but not as fun.

Remember this is what we are looking for:

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

Not wimps that provide no challenge.

The current dungeons do provide a certain degree of challenge. I’ve done quite a few myself and managed to beat them. I found them very enjoyable, however there aren’t very many of them. They only require 5 people. Once again they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds to do them. This is why PVE-Guilds and players are very concerned. Is there any reason why PVE’ers should be gathering for other then just guild buffs? What are these buffs for if no there is no one to challenge? Why should they gather to begin with? If PVE endgame did exist, people wouldn’t be here posting so and there definitely would not be this many views either by the community.

The voice of concern here is from the PVE players and guilds. There is still plenty to do now since its early but is there anything worth doing when players hit the TRUE “endgame marker” is the true question. Players would like to know now cause they will be investing in much more play time waiting for things like that or preparing to move to other games… cough… MOP. (I seriously don’t want to play MOP).

Some players voice that progression gear will ruin the game. Yes it does but who says end-game content has to give progression gear? Ragnarok Online didn’t give progression gear all the time. People farmed endgame content for God awesome looking accessories. Just cause it looked cool, people farmed months for it.

“The heroes of Tyria, who want to protect and save Tyria from future problems, want to know if they are truly needed in the future or will just any commoner suffice to save Tyria, if so… they will move on to be heroes in other strange new lands”

This is what the PVE players are asking. It is crucial that this be clearly stated as well and soon. With MOP, a MMORPG with endgame FOR SURE, just over the hill. GW2 PVE-guilds and players are wanting to know. Time is money, especially to everyone in this category, GW2 franchise and players alike.

I agree with this.

I’ve just never been a fan of the way MMORPGs do PvP. WvWvW is pretty fun, but if anything I wish it didn’t give XP. I kind of worry about hitting level 80, because I don’t want to kill Zhaitan, get 100% map completion and be left wondering what to do.

I realize – and appreciate – that ArenaNet is against artificial reasons to keep players interested, but currently it feels like you can complete the game inside of a month, and then there’s nothing other than repeating stuff which you’ve already done.

If you don’t like they way GW2 Devs implemented “endgame” content…wait a couple weeks and hopefully you can get your fix w/ MOP. Sometimes MMO’s make the mistake of trying to be “all things to all people”. I heard these exact comments while playing SWTOR. GW2 Devs…IMO never sold this as some big focus on endgame but to make the game accessible to everyone who plays it….unfortunately endgame raider types don’t like this model because eliminates their exclusivity to high level content. I applaud ArenaNet for this move.

, and then there’s nothing other than repeating stuff which you’ve already done.

And exactly how is this different to end game raiding in other MMO’s? Do you not see the irony in running the same raids over and over to get gear so you can stand around in major cities for months waiting for the next expansion that makes everything you did worthless?

ituhata.6830:

And exactly how is this different to end game raiding in other MMO’s?

Perhaps I read it incorrectly, however I thought Belcross was posting due to a concern that there is no particularly difficult content designed to test players at the level cap. I don’t really get the relevance of your response; it comes across as a stawman argument.

Progression gear does not have to ruin PvP balancing. As far as I know, PvP occurs in a vacuum (instance), so there is plenty of control over it. When players enter a PvP instance, initiate a hard stat cap to keep the playing field level like it is now. The result would be that you can still use your neat looking PvE gear in PvP while maintaining the same sense of gear control, while simultaneously creating PvE content that yields progression gear.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

Friendly reminder: please keep this topic tightly focused on helping players understand Guild Wars 2’s approach to the concept of “endgame” and not on requests, suggestions, or feedback. If this thread does not stay on topic, the moderators will need to lock it. Thank you.

Hmmm, interesting. I completely understand keeping posts on topic for the particular forum, but where exactly would a post of this nature fit? I do not see a forum that allows for players to provide feeback to developers, or discuss the current/future state of the game. Perhaps an actual General forum should be created? Or perhaps you want to exclude this sort of talk altogether from the boards, which is your prerogative.

To answer your question, there’s not a whole hell of a lot of endgame.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

Nod.9613:

Hmmm, interesting. I completely understand keeping posts on topic for the particular forum, but where exactly would a post of this nature fit? I do not see a forum that allows for players to provide feeback to developers, or discuss the current/future state of the game. Perhaps an actual General forum should be created? Or perhaps you want to exclude this sort of talk altogether from the boards, which is your prerogative.

As we have mentioned each day in our game status updates, other sub-forums will be opened when our development team is satisfied that the forums are performing well under heavy load. There will be sub-forums that are more appropriate for providing feedback. For now, please stay on topic and use the sub-forums that are open for their intended purpose.

If you have further questions about this, please do not use this thread for it.

Alrighty, well I suppose that effectively culls this thread. I can respect that.

Since this game is about providing help to other players, does anyone know of a different community for discussing such topics until GW2 is ready to broaden its conversational scope? I certainly enjoy these topics.

Consider.4603:

ituhata.6830:

And exactly how is this different to end game raiding in other MMO’s?

Perhaps I read it incorrectly, however I thought Belcross was posting due to a concern that there is no particularly difficult content designed to test players at the level cap. I don’t really get the relevance of your response; it comes across as a stawman argument.

I’d be interested to hear how Belcross faired on explorer mode dungeons, however the relevance of my response is aimed specifically at your comment, because end game in other MMO’s has always been the same: Run a few raids that are hard simply because you don’t have the gear, get gear by farming easy bosses and progress through till your entire guild has all the gear from the dungeon and the entire thing becomes trivial. After weeks or months of running the same dungeon over and over you are done. Now you have nothing to do until the next expansion or major patch and you repeat the process all over again. It is also interesting to note that vertical progression causes each and every previous raid dungeon to be obsolete, there will only ever be a few top raids at max cap that are worth raiding, so any new players coming into other MMO’s can skip over all that content.

So when you fear that when you hit 80 you will have nothing to do and repeat things you’ve already done, I seriously want to know how you think this is any different from the traditional method of progression?

Since this is the second time this has popped up in the player helping player forum, ill give the people worried about this some helpful advise:

Do it. Get to end game. Go get legendary weapons for your characters. That should cost you a minimum of 400 skill points over cap. If you dont want to repeat content (which I dont see as a problem for you since “traditional” end game is just doing the same thing hundreds of times), then completing each of the theoretical 1500 dynamic events should get you close.

After that, since you are looking for things to do with your guild: get yourself the commander titles, form a guild squad and then take and keep Stonemist castle.

If your guild-mates, who also might be worried about end-game, think they are undergeared for that, then farming out the 25 available dungeons for unique armor, sigils and runes should be helpful.

Once you get allllllllll that done, I think it can pretty much be said you have come CLOSE to seeing and doing all of the content available. Then come right on back here and let us know how there is nothing left to do. Thats assuming you even can get everything done before an expansion, or before free content patches are added.

Good luck. We’ll be waiting to hear from you.

I don’t understand why your yearn for WoW-like endgame content, and then say you don’t want to play MOP. I think most people are begging for a reason to leave WoW behind, and GW2 is the first offering I’ve seen that can probably do it.

Here’s why I like GW2: I care about the story. In WoW, almost every quest was tedious, and I just kept my eyes on my XP bar the whole time. In GW2, I often level without realizing I was even close. This is because, for the first time in a very long time, I’m reading what the quest givers have to say.

Development teams only have so much time to invest. Blizzard focused so heavily on end-game content, that everything else suffered. Leveling became a chore, PvP under 85 was hugely unbalanced, and the difference made by gear was astronomical. In short, it appealed only to the most hardcore of gamers, because anyone unwilling or unable to invest 40+ hours a week was left behind, unable to even get into the endgame content because we were busy running heroics over and over just to get gear good enough to get into the raid, where people would just kitten about how we didn’t know the fights.

I don’t want that. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW. I’m not devaluing the taste of those who prefer that kind of game, but I see no reason to try to out-WoW WoW (so to speak).

Anyway, GW2 just launched, so I think you’re pannicking a bit needlessly. The game right now is letting people explore and learn about a new world, new professions/classes, etc. The dungeons have new flair to them, and pvp has been uniquely revamped from anything previously done. There’s a LOT for people to do here, so I don’t see why anyone would be asking for more content yet. That’s just…bizarre lol.

I’m sure ArenaNet is more focused on fixing bugs and stabilizing the Trading Post right now, and will start looking at content suggestions shortly. In the meantime, just enjoy one of the best games to come out in a long, long time.

AcidicVision.5498:

If your guild-mates, who also might be worried about end-game, think they are undergeared for that, then farming out the 25 available dungeons for unique armor, sigils and runes should be helpful.

Did not know there were 25 dungeons in the game. That’s a LOT more than I realized.

Let me explain to everyone something about Anet. They aren’t like traditonal MMO devs. They weren’t with GW1 and they still aren’t. In GW2 they tried to appeal to a larger audience by making most PvE and leveling/world event experiences easy to find, get into, and have fun with. They did a terrific job on it. Lots of people who hate mmos that I know actually enjoyed this one. But theres one thing I’d like to mention first. In GW1, they also had unique Endgame. What they had were one the PvP (Guild vs Guild, faction battles where you could own towns, guild halls, and all other kinds of pvp) and it was the main focus of the endgame. The PvE portion of it was really about finding new items without going into “dungeons”. They did this with areas that were unlocked after beating the game and they were very hard to play solo, even with Heroes. But the rewards were great. Another part of the endgame was acquiring armor. It took me about a month to get the Prime evil armor and some other armors were also very hard to get.

Now in GW2 they made it so that some of the PvE areas are a bit tougher to complete, but they also tied in the Mystic Forge. Right now hardly any recpieies for the end game items are known. This is a good place to spend right now, trying to find out how to make these special weapons that can only be acquired via mystic forge. Also gaining armor, but it is much easier in this, in my personal opinion, than in GW1. Another big portion of it is with PvP. To all those who’ve reach level 80, have you reached the highest glory rank? No? Then you aren’t complete yet, that is one avenue of “end game” that you could have. Another is becoming a dominate guild in WvW, becoming popular. There were a few guilds back in GW1 that people knew who they were. They were the best.

Now I’m sure Anet will add things in the future. Maybe a way to hold towns again, Guild vs Guild, Guild halls, etc. But right now, until all the mystic forge recpies are known, till you’ve reached level 80, gotten all the best gear you could get, and then became the highest glory rank, you can’t really complain. IF you do, you simply reached level 80 and expected a WoW setup of endgame, which GW2 is nothing like.

Wow, 25 dungeons?!!! Sign me up!

If you rushed to 80 in a week good job, you are a hero indeed, heres what you can do, get a really cool glowing flaming sword and stand around impressing noobs in the noob zones.

johnnycosmic.9130:

If you rushed to 80 in a week good job, you are a hero indeed, heres what you can do, get a really cool glowing flaming sword and stand around impressing noobs in the noob zones.

Like me! Lvl 80 + Exotic armor from Orrian zone completion + Fiery Dragon Sword and other HoM skins + Mini Rytlock == coolest kid in Divinity’s Reach.

Let me have my 15 min of fame! It’ll only last another week or so.

Honestly though, I promised guild-mates I would wait to fight Zhaiten and do explorable dungeons with them. So if I’m sitting around town, it’s because I just finished helping with a zone or story mission, will soon be helping with a zone or story mission, or am in 45 min queue for WvW.

But it’s still nice to stand out among-st the padded and bronze armored masses.

I completely disagree with the OP. For the record, I was an end game raider in WoW. I was successful at it and I have server firsts for many raids.

The problem with the OP’s thinking is that there has to be some sort of difficult challenge to be enjoyable, but that is simply not true. As a percentage of the playerbase in WoW, very few raided. Many of those who did never stayed on the progression path, meaning raided current content, but instead were a tier or so behind.

There is also this illusion that your character was “progressing” because you got more powerful gear. This is also false. If your character was getting stronger, then every new boss should be getting easier to defeat until your character becomes essentially “godly”. The truth however, is that Arthas in ICC was just as difficult to beat while wearing T9/T10 as Rag was in MC wearing T0/T1. When the mobs you face stay just as powerful in relation to you, then the increase in stats merely become cosmetic. The only difference is you have made all previous content irrelevant.

With GW2 ALL content stays relevant. You won’t have a situation where you queue for the daily LFD dungeon, not because it’s fun, let’s face it, a couple weeks into an expansion and they are a faceroll in WoW, but because you need to get your daily badge allotment. Anet has also said they will constantly be adding new content into the game, new DE’s and such, even in lower level zones, which, thanks to downscaling are not faceroll. In WoW, the only content worth doing was the current raid tier because everything else was boring. And you did that over and over. Cataclysm is a good example. They introduced all of two raid tiers as content over 2 years. That hardly keeps a game challenging and fun.

As for the point of guilds, guild will certainly successful. You don’t have to schedule content as if it were a job to have a successful guild. Guilds are meant to be social structures and people will meet others they enjoy playing the game with and want to continue to do so.

To me “Endgame” in GW2 is WvW. If you haven’t tried it yet, you really should. You want a raiding environment that requires coordination and skill by a group of players? WvW is exactly what you are looking for. It also doesn’t feel repetitive because you are fighting against actual people rather than AI. As WvW is so much different than traditional MMORPG PVP, even those of you who hate PVP should enjoy it. IMO WvW is real raiding and those of you who like to “raid” should thoroughly enjoy it.

In any game you play the majority of your time will be spent at max level. So what is there to do for say the next 2 years while Im level 80? Am I supposed to farm DEs all day long for 700 days? Id be rich at least but I hope theres more to the game than that. I dont care about raids but what about events like Shadow Behemoth. Are there more of those at 80?

Wildkitten.3872:

I completely disagree with the OP. For the record, I was an end game raider in WoW. I was successful at it and I have server firsts for many raids.

The problem with the OP’s thinking is that there has to be some sort of difficult challenge to be enjoyable, but that is simply not true. As a percentage of the playerbase in WoW, very few raided. Many of those who did never stayed on the progression path, meaning raided current content, but instead were a tier or so behind.

There is also this illusion that your character was “progressing” because you got more powerful gear. This is also false. If your character was getting stronger, then every new boss should be getting easier to defeat until your character becomes essentially “godly”. The truth however, is that Arthas in ICC was just as difficult to beat while wearing T9/T10 as Rag was in MC wearing T0/T1. When the mobs you face stay just as powerful in relation to you, then the increase in stats merely become cosmetic. The only difference is you have made all previous content irrelevant.

With GW2 ALL content stays relevant. You won’t have a situation where you queue for the daily LFD dungeon, not because it’s fun, let’s face it, a couple weeks into an expansion and they are a faceroll in WoW, but because you need to get your daily badge allotment. Anet has also said they will constantly be adding new content into the game, new DE’s and such, even in lower level zones, which, thanks to downscaling are not faceroll. In WoW, the only content worth doing was the current raid tier because everything else was boring. And you did that over and over. Cataclysm is a good example. They introduced all of two raid tiers as content over 2 years. That hardly keeps a game challenging and fun.

As for the point of guilds, guild will certainly successful. You don’t have to schedule content as if it were a job to have a successful guild. Guilds are meant to be social structures and people will meet others they enjoy playing the game with and want to continue to do so.

I have to agree here. I was an end game raider in EQ/EQ2/WoW/SWTOR, and more. I had realized that wow was going downhill fast, but it died for me the second weak the fall of deathwing raid was out and they opened the last wing. That day, a mere week and change from the new content, and I was done, having killed deathwing and gotten almsot half my new teir of gear. A few weeks later and there was nothing more I could do other than the same content over and over again.

WoW did not last long for me after that.

Like the guy above said endgame in gw2 is WvW.
I just hope it is expanded on in the future like a free for all zone in the server world you play, that would be tops! I know this isn’t a suggestion thread but im saddened that there isn’t at least one free for all pvp zone in this persistent world.

As it is you got your basic canned pvp WvW and what ever else, which is ok I mean the game is called GuildWars 2 (wars), so I get the feeling for now end game has something to do with that.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

In any game you play the majority of your time will be spent at max level. So what is there to do for say the next 2 years while Im level 80? Am I supposed to farm DEs all day long for 700 days? Id be rich at least but I hope theres more to the game than that. I dont care about raids but what about events like Shadow Behemoth. Are there more of those at 80?

Doesn’t have to be level 80 though, since you will scale down to an appropriate level for any zone at all.

I would LOVE to see future content patches release level 20, or 40, or 2 dungeons. Then you could bring your super-elite level 80 back to Ashford Plains and have some serious level 12 dungeon goodness… because “end game” doesn’t have to mean level 80, does it?

I think a few of you are misunderstanding what the OP posted.

s/He’s asking YOU what you will do once you have explored everything, maxed all your skills, etc.

What will hold YOU to the game after you have the entire map explored, the greatest looking armor?

What do YOU want from endgame?

This isn’t about rushing to the finish line, this is about what we will be doing once we reach the proverbial endgame.

Sky.9347:

Dabrixmgp.4758:

In any game you play the majority of your time will be spent at max level. So what is there to do for say the next 2 years while Im level 80? Am I supposed to farm DEs all day long for 700 days? Id be rich at least but I hope theres more to the game than that. I dont care about raids but what about events like Shadow Behemoth. Are there more of those at 80?

Doesn’t have to be level 80 though, since you will scale down to an appropriate level for any zone at all.

I would LOVE to see future content patches release level 20, or 40, or 2 dungeons. Then you could bring your super-elite level 80 back to Ashford Plains and have some serious level 12 dungeon goodness… because “end game” doesn’t have to mean level 80, does it?

Good point!

Azzras.8041:

I think a few of you are misunderstanding what the OP posted.

s/He’s asking YOU what you will do once you have explored everything, maxed all your skills, etc.

What will hold YOU to the game after you have the entire map explored, the greatest looking armor?

What do YOU want from endgame?

This isn’t about rushing to the finish line, this is about what we will be doing once we reach the proverbial endgame.

In that case, for me… WvWvW

I never thought WvW would grab my attention like it has. I bought the game basically for sPvP (which I do still love to play), but the Borderlands and Eternal Battleground have really caught my attention. In fact, I have no decided to level a character to 80 (before I had no interest in leveling) just so I can perform better in WvW.

So… my endgame will be working the TP or crafting (I’m gonna cook!) for money, which will then promptly be spent on the WvWvW maps laying siege to our enemies!

AcidicVision.5498:

Since this is the second time this has popped up in the player helping player forum, ill give the people worried about this some helpful advise:

Do it. Get to end game. Go get legendary weapons for your characters. That should cost you a minimum of 400 skill points over cap. If you dont want to repeat content (which I dont see as a problem for you since “traditional” end game is just doing the same thing hundreds of times), then completing each of the theoretical 1500 dynamic events should get you close.

After that, since you are looking for things to do with your guild: get yourself the commander titles, form a guild squad and then take and keep Stonemist castle.

If your guild-mates, who also might be worried about end-game, think they are undergeared for that, then farming out the 25 available dungeons for unique armor, sigils and runes should be helpful.

Once you get allllllllll that done, I think it can pretty much be said you have come CLOSE to seeing and doing all of the content available. Then come right on back here and let us know how there is nothing left to do. Thats assuming you even can get everything done before an expansion, or before free content patches are added.

Good luck. We’ll be waiting to hear from you.

What do you mean when you say 400 skill points over cap? And how will doing dynamic events get them?

People need to get out of that single minded mind set that the point of an mmo is to reach the current level max asap and do raids endlessly, go after the next set of gear. MMO’s are a ever thriving and growing world with tons of other people, interacting with each other on various levels. It is suppose to be a journey, about the journey. Not a destination and only the destination. One is missing the substance of a game if they only focus on max level or think a mmo is all about gear progressioin.

Speaking of which…gear progression focused games, is a lazy way to keep people busy.
IMO of course.

I sincerely hope that ANET stands firm on their vision of this game. That they do NOT give in and change the game into a version of WoW. I have seen, as I’m sure everyone here too, way to many games change their original vision into something that is like WoW because way to many people beg for them to do so. And those games fall rather quickly after they make those changes.

If people want WoW features/gameplay/vision then go play WoW. I am by no means being a sarcastic or rude by saying that, I am saying that in a the logical sense.

Allow other games to be themselves. Allow ANET to see their vision through. If you find you don’t like it, that is perfectly ok. You don’t have to like every game that comes out, and not every game has to be like the first mmo you ever played.

daemonlama.5413:

People need to get out of that single minded mind set that the point of an mmo is to reach the current level max asap and do raids endlessly, go after the next set of gear. MMO’s are a ever thriving and growing world with tons of other people, interacting with each other on various levels. It is suppose to be a journey, about the journey. Not a destination and only the destination. One is missing the substance of a game if they only focus on max level or think a mmo is all about gear progressioin.

Speaking of which…gear progression focused games, is a lazy way to keep people busy.
IMO of course.

I sincerely hope that ANET stands firm on their vision of this game. That they do NOT give in and change the game into a version of WoW. I have seen, as I’m sure everyone here too, way to many games change their original vision into something that is like WoW because way to many people beg for them to do so. And those games fall rather quickly after they make those changes.

If people want WoW features/gameplay/vision then go play WoW. I am by no means being a sarcastic or rude by saying that, I am saying that in a the logical sense.

Allow other games to be themselves. Allow ANET to see their vision through. If you find you don’t like it, that is perfectly ok. You don’t have to like every game that comes out, and not every game has to be like the first mmo you ever played.

Soooo, what PvE content will you be doing as a guild when you are max level and have crafting/skills/etc. capped and the world explored?

All I know is GW2 got it a lot better than D3. I’m satisfied. Money well spent.

Azzras.8041:

Soooo, what PvE content will you be doing as a guild when you are max level and have crafting/skills/etc. capped and the world explored?

^ The same thing I was doing in every other MMO I suppose, standing around the major city with nothing to do. Because at some point, people start getting that running the same dungeons over and over to get gear is pointless and if those dungeons were dull (and most of them were), the only point was to run them until everyone had gear and then wait until that gear became obsolete next expansion. Its a poor excuse for content. Heres 3 new raids, have fun for the next 7 months with that carrot.

Soothsayer.9476:

What do you mean when you say 400 skill points over cap? And how will doing dynamic events get them?

When you hit lvl 80 you no longer level up, but continue to earn experience. When you would otherwise level up, were you not 80, you get a skill point.

Skill points are used to purchase high level crafting items used to make the legendary weapons. Last I seen, they cost about 200 each. So 2x legendary weapons would be 400 skill points. Meaning you need to level up about 400 more times AFTER you hit 80.

Well that would be 400 – whatever skill point challenges you have left. Dynamic events and running around Orr are about the most efficient ways to level after you hit 80 and have finished your story. Crafting would be a good way to level up also, but since the other part of those legendaries requires 10 or more gold, you might wanna save your cash.

[/quote]

Soooo, what PvE content will you be doing as a guild when you are max level and have crafting/skills/etc. capped and the world explored?
[/quote]

That is a way down the road for me. As I am playing a two to three different characters. With only one who I am currently messing with crafting. None of which have even made it out of the 20’s yet. So, I see that I have a lot to do.

I am not rushing through trying to get leveled up. I am just playing the game and enjoying it. So as for what I’ll do once I’m capped? I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Azzras.8041:

I think a few of you are misunderstanding what the OP posted.

s/He’s asking YOU what you will do once you have explored everything, maxed all your skills, etc.

What will hold YOU to the game after you have the entire map explored, the greatest looking armor?

What do YOU want from endgame?

This isn’t about rushing to the finish line, this is about what we will be doing once we reach the proverbial endgame.

I’m sorry, I don’t see that in the OP at all. I see the OP essentially complaining because GW2’s end game isn’t like other games endgame. Let’s look at a few quotes in the OP…

“Endgame content was designed to be hard and challenging, something to keep players occupied in the world when they hit the end of the road. In GW2 your occupied all the time but eventually, you’ll have done most the content and you’ll end up at this point. At “Endgame.” When you have done it all! This is what endgame truly is. The game GW2 gives the feel of endgame throughout but its not “Endgame.””

The above is not the OP asking what we will do, it’s giving their opinion that GW2 does not have endgame.

“The world events are challenging but they aren’t what people would call end-game challenging and they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds. If GW2 attaches new dungeons and they are of similar difficulty and 5-man size, people become bored quickly, same with world events”

Once again, not asking anyone what they will do, but stating that the game isn’t difficult enough for them.

Ah, now Sky has touched on the core of the subject. End game doesn’t have to mean lvl 80. Belcross, one thing I noticed in your post is that you seem to have more than one definition of endgame. Mostly you are defining endgame as what to do once you reach the level cap. But then later you also refer to “endgame content”. So one might ask, is endgame a when? or a what? We must not conflate the two ideas. But it is easy to do because that is what the industry has consistently done for a long time now.

Endgame is the harder content (what) you do after you reach the level cap. (when)

ArenaNet appears to be trying to decouple these two idea in order to meet a primary goal of their’s. The designers mentioned that they didn’t want the game play to change significantly once players reached the level cap. In other words, they didn’t want the leveling game to be different from the endgame. (in terms of when) To this end they have allowed some of the greatest challenges of the game (engame in terms of what) to be taken on before the level cap.

The best examples of this are the explorable dungeons. People are running head long into the explorable and are routinely getting their butts handed back to them. People are finding out that explorables are not just marginally more difficult. They making players to really need to know how to play to the strengths of their character. They are needing to plan and practice combos and put in some real team work and effort. What does that sound like? Sounds like the level of commitment that is often needed by people who raid in other games. Not in terms of the amount of time and dedication taken to grind tokens for a gear set but the kind of try and try again until you learn how to fight the boss kind of dedication that is needed. These are not pug friendly dungeons.

Explorables are the endgame versions (what) of the 5 man dungeons in this game. They are hard and they take time to conquer. For most people. The only difference is that you can try the endgame content known as Explorable Ascalon Catacombs as early as lvl 35. So does it make these instances not endgame if they can be done before level cap? only if you define endgame as a when rather than a what. Would it make the instance endgame if say there was a harder version that could be done at level 80? Well, explorables are the harder versions of storyline dungeons and yeah, they can be done at 80. The only difference being that the game levels you back to the dungeon rather than creating a version of the dungeon that is leveled up to 80 and then called expert or heroic.

You said that the game was not hard enough to be able to consider the leveling up as endgame. And I would agree that most of it isn’t. Exploring. doing hearts. doing most DEs. Crafting. That is the “leveling” or “normal mode” game. And it doesn’t stop when you reach level cap. You can continue to finish out maps and gain more karma, cash and skill points. But then there is also the “end” or the “hard mode” game. And these also are not strictly limited to being done after the level cap. The explorables. The world bosses. Some hard mode DEs in the end zones. Working on getting Legendary weapons. Some of the jumping puzzles are also freakishly hard to find and do.

Any game can and will run out of things for us to do. All we can do when that happens is either find something else to work on that we might not have thought of before or take a break until the next expansion comes out. But just because we can start playing really hard content before the level cap and still play easy content after it doesn’t mean that GW2 has less to offer than other games. It just has it laid out differently.

Also, as an added observation. Consider that, because of the way we can level back to earlier dungeons and zones and still enjoy them at the level cap, what that will mean for expansions. GW2 expansions don’t have to be at the level cap or add another 5 or 10 levels to be fun for most players. Anet can add say zones from lvl 25-80 over in Maguuma Wastes that would essentially add a new and unique level path that could be more naturally used by future Asura and Sylvari. They could also add another dungeon into these zones half way though and yet everyone who is already at level cap would be able to play these zones and its dungeon just like they did every other. Thanks to the auto leveling, expansion content can be offered to both those still leveling and those long since capped. The design is masterful once you let it sink in.

Viking.1950:

Ah, now Sky has touched on the core of the subject. End game doesn’t have to mean lvl 80. Belcross, one thing I noticed in your post is that you seem to have more than one definition of endgame. Mostly you are defining endgame as what to do once you reach the level cap. But then later you also refer to “endgame content”. So one might ask, is endgame a when? or a what? We must not conflate the two ideas. But it is easy to do because that is what the industry has consistently done for a long time now.

Endgame is the harder content (what) you do after you reach the level cap. (when)

ArenaNet appears to be trying to decouple these two idea in order to meet a primary goal of their’s. The designers mentioned that they didn’t want the game play to change significantly once players reached the level cap. In other words, they didn’t want the leveling game to be different from the endgame. (in terms of when) To this end they have allowed some of the greatest challenges of the game (engame in terms of what) to be taken on before the level cap.

The best examples of this are the explorable dungeons. People are running head long into the explorable and are routinely getting their butts handed back to them. People are finding out that explorables are not just marginally more difficult. They making players to really need to know how to play to the strengths of their character. They are needing to plan and practice combos and put in some real team work and effort. What does that sound like? Sounds like the level of commitment that is often needed by people who raid in other games. Not in terms of the amount of time and dedication taken to grind tokens for a gear set but the kind of try and try again until you learn how to fight the boss kind of dedication that is needed. These are not pug friendly dungeons.

Explorables are the endgame versions (what) of the 5 man dungeons in this game. They are hard and they take time to conquer. For most people. The only difference is that you can try the endgame content known as Explorable Ascalon Catacombs as early as lvl 35. So does it make these instances not endgame if they can be done before level cap? only if you define endgame as a when rather than a what. Would it make the instance endgame if say there was a harder version that could be done at level 80? Well, explorables are the harder versions of storyline dungeons and yeah, they can be done at 80. The only difference being that the game levels you back to the dungeon rather than creating a version of the dungeon that is leveled up to 80 and then called expert or heroic.

You said that the game was not hard enough to be able to consider the leveling up as endgame. And I would agree that most of it isn’t. Exploring. doing hearts. doing most DEs. Crafting. That is the “leveling” or “normal mode” game. And it doesn’t stop when you reach level cap. You can continue to finish out maps and gain more karma, cash and skill points. But then there is also the “end” or the “hard mode” game. And these also are not strictly limited to being done after the level cap. The explorables. The world bosses. Some hard mode DEs in the end zones. Working on getting Legendary weapons. Some of the jumping puzzles are also freakishly hard to find and do.

Any game can and will run out of things for us to do. All we can do when that happens is either find something else to work on that we might not have thought of before or take a break until the next expansion comes out. But just because we can start playing really hard content before the level cap and still play easy content after it doesn’t mean that GW2 has less to offer than other games. It just has it laid out differently.

Also, as an added observation. Consider that, because of the way we can level back to earlier dungeons and zones and still enjoy them at the level cap, what that will mean for expansions. GW2 expansions don’t have to be at the level cap or add another 5 or 10 levels to be fun for most players. Anet can add say zones from lvl 25-80 over in Maguuma Wastes that would essentially add a new and unique level path that could be more naturally used by future Asura and Sylvari. They could also add another dungeon into these zones half way though and yet everyone who is already at level cap would be able to play these zones and its dungeon just like they did every other. Thanks to the auto leveling, expansion content can be offered to both those still leveling and those long since capped. The design is masterful once you let it sink in.

I agree with you 100%. These systems are very well designed, and I speak as a professional in this case.

There’s PvP, and there’s no monthly fee. I don’t see a reason to have a repeatable endgame like in other MMOs if you’ve got healthy PvP (and RvR in WvWvW) and no subscription fees. The endgame that we’re accustomed to is more of a psychological trap to get us to keep shelling out 15 bucks, IMO. I hope that you do get something that’s a little more speed, just because I’d like everyone to be able to have fun, but at the same time, I don’t know if you’re desires align with the purported design goals of the game.

@Viking: I think that’s the answer the OP was asking for; it’s a shame he probably never saw it after leaving the thread after the other irrelevant answers.

First, I realized I made a mistake with the title thread. Wasn’t meaning to change what GW2 way of endgame was but trying to tell people what the difference of endgame was and some issues arising from PVE’ers in GW2. My bad there.

Players continue to misunderstand my post. At some point or another we will ALL reach an “Endgame” at our each and own unique pace. Some people can progress through the story line and game faster then others. Just like some people can read a book faster then others.

Yes, I’m talking about the storyline! These days everyone is infatuated with PVE = raiding.

PVE content is truly and actually story content. It has nothing to do with your pvp or your raiding or WoW mindset content you guys are talking about with progression gear. PVE’ers want to know once we beat the game storyline, can we expect more content, more storyline?

Most people will say that I want something for new content. Yes, I do. A cape will do! Most people will laugh. However, I’d kill lich king on heroic for that tabard of the lightbringer or TOGC 25 for that mount or 4 lights in Ulduar for mimrons head. None of which affect pve or pvp. People will know when they see that cape that I’ve saved all of Tyria x2. LOL.

“Can the Heros of Tyria be expected to be called upon once more to save Tyria from great chaos?”

Is the correct phrase.

Is it going to be worth while gearing up with legendaries and so forth, getting everything and maxing everything possible for PVE once we’ve cleared current content. Yes, PVE. I’d not like to spend countless hours decking out and then find out.

“Sorry Hero, we don’t need your services anymore, as a matter of fact, the Queen has asked that you and your guild to disband.”

So all the PVE’ers leave.

So before we form these massive PVE guilds, decking out everything, professions and content to save Tyria, can we expect more and possibly harder content afterwards! I am a legendary hero decked out that has saved all of Tyria, my next opponent better god-like.

Like I said PVE players and PVE guilds are concerned because as we approach the end at an alarming rate, is their really a need for heroes to gather once we save Tyria? The content is not extremely easy but not challenging enough to be called endgame, content after beating the game, is there really a need for heroes to gather and form guilds? In this case PVE players to be exact or will we be disbanded by Tyria and sent back to our watermelon farms?

Did you see Viking’s post? He directly addressed that issue. There are 8 dungeons in the game, each with a Story mode and three Explorable modes. While the Story mode is difficult compared to most zerg events, the Explorable modes are designed to be the absolute hardest content the game has to offer. With three of them per dungeon, that’s technically 24 different dungeons to take on, and beating each one gives you credits towards unlocking unique armor sets. Those unique armor sets seem to be the exact “cape” you’re asking for, and those explorable dungeons the hard content.

Belcross.6127:

First, I realized I made a mistake with the title thread. Wasn’t meaning to change what GW2 way of endgame was but trying to tell people what the difference of endgame was and some issues arising from PVE’ers in GW2. My bad there.

Players continue to misunderstand my post. At some point or another we will ALL reach an “Endgame” at our each and own unique pace. Some people can progress through the story line and game faster then others. Just like some people can read a book faster then others.

Yes, I’m talking about the storyline! These days everyone is infatuated with PVE = raiding.

PVE content is truly and actually story content. It has nothing to do with your pvp or your raiding or WoW mindset content you guys are talking about with progression gear. PVE’ers want to know once we beat the game storyline, can we expect more content, more storyline?

Most people will say that I want something for new content. Yes, I do. A cape will do! Most people will laugh. However, I’d kill lich king on heroic for that tabard of the lightbringer or TOGC 25 for that mount or 4 lights in Ulduar for mimrons head. None of which affect pve or pvp. People will know when they see that cape that I’ve saved all of Tyria x2. LOL.

“Can the Heros of Tyria be expected to be called upon once more to save Tyria from great chaos?”

Is the correct phrase.

Is it going to be worth while gearing up with legendaries and so forth, getting everything and maxing everything possible for PVE once we’ve cleared current content. Yes, PVE. I’d not like to spend countless hours decking out and then find out.

“Sorry Hero, we don’t need your services anymore, as a matter of fact, the Queen has asked that you and your guild to disband.”

So all the PVE’ers leave.

So before we form these massive PVE guilds, decking out everything, professions and content to save Tyria, can we expect more and possibly harder content afterwards! I am a legendary hero decked out that has saved all of Tyria, my next opponent better god-like.

Like I said PVE players and PVE guilds are concerned because as we approach the end at an alarming rate, is their really a need for heroes to gather once we save Tyria? The content is not extremely easy but not challenging enough to be called endgame, content after beating the game, is there really a need for heroes to gather and form guilds? In this case PVE players to be exact or will we be disbanded by Tyria and sent back to our watermelon farms?

Why does there need to be harder content? Why do some people have to be excluded? This is a game. A game was meant to be enjoyed. Anet even said that their first question is “Is this fun?”.

As for rewards, there are. You do a dungeon, you get tokens (explorer mode) which you can then turn in for armor and weapons from that dungeons vendor. They have a unique look, so you can be identified, if you so chose, as having done that content. We don’t know what will be seen when we face the Elder Dragons, but I would think there will likely be unique rewards, cosmetically.

And why does end game have to be more difficult? You say “…but not challenging enough to be called endgame…”, but who are you to get to define how difficult “end game” gets to be?

Maybe in a month or tow they will release some new paying content…
did the DEV ever commented on the type of content the store will provide ?
or the time lapse between adding content ?

I do sincerely believe they will release “extension” like the first guildwars but smaller and sooner as well as the big “extension”

I can tell you why I keep playing… The story in this game is incredible. Another thing? Being lowered in level so that I can run the lower level content of other starter zones, AND THE ZONES!!! I’m kinda ocd about finding all of the vistas and hidden stuff that you have to work for. There are SO many things to do, I know my goal is to explore EVERYTHING. I try to get in on every event I can, and as my character is a ranger, I’m also trying to charm new pets. This game really is an adventure.

Another thing, the events are so much fun, and while you will see quite a lot of the escort, protect, stop an invasion… etc. You will also find ones where you have to solve riddles, or dump water on passed out drunk taverns and play server to hungry people and people who love their ale. I am truly impressed at all there is to do. And when I get tired of running around a zone, I work on crafting, or do another part in my personal story.

I’m also an altoholic, and I’m glad I am in this game because after what I’ve seen so far with my Narn ranger’s story, I can’t wait to see the other races

For me, the most important thing that Anet has accomplished thus far in what I am seeing as I am progressing is that they broke the barriers down. Meaning, there is no early game, mid game, or end game. There is just a game. Akittengood game that has everything for everyone and nothing for no one. Enjoy it for what it is, break the mold, and just be happy that finally a company had the balls to do what others did not, make an mmorpg fun again.

Sigiel.2910:

Maybe in a month or tow they will release some new paying content…
did the DEV ever commented on the type of content the store will provide ?
or the time lapse between adding content ?

I do sincerely believe they will release “extension” like the first guildwars but smaller and sooner as well as the big “extension”

They have already said NO gameplay content will ever be on the store. They believe you buy the game, you get ALL the game.

Wildkitten.3872:

Sigiel.2910:

Maybe in a month or tow they will release some new paying content…
did the DEV ever commented on the type of content the store will provide ?
or the time lapse between adding content ?

I do sincerely believe they will release “extension” like the first guildwars but smaller and sooner as well as the big “extension”

They have already said NO gameplay content will ever be on the store. They believe you buy the game, you get ALL the game.

But there will be expansions.