Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to point out that thief is not treated equally amond all the classes. Only thief can not autoatack while in stealth. If your sneak atack fails u can not autoatack for full one second. Should every other class not be able to atack while in stealth?

edit: All i want is to have normal atack if sneak atack fails. It feelsbadman when i can not do anything for full one second.

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

+1 on thieves getting nerfed to the ground!!

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

On a side note. Dayyyyuuum yo I can sound Hella proper when I’m feeling it.

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

You for real right? Mesmers have clones and illusions that do a ton of damage, not to mention doing damage in stealth doesn’t reveal them as they can still stack up conditions.

You’re one of those people that gets kitten on by thieves yet cant play one to save your life aren’t you?

I predict even more unfair bias towards thieves in this thread fueled by players who have failed to pass the skill check on fighting stealthed opponents.

Truth though thieves need a lil something more, or a serious nerf to a lot of other classes. I vote for the later b/c HoT in general needs some scaling back.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

On a side note. Dayyyyuuum yo I can sound Hella proper when I’m feeling it.

He was not posting “emotionally charged opinions.” He was stating simple logic.

Thief: Auto changes in stealth – Auto attains 1sec CD

Mesmer: Auto is same in stealth – Auto is same with CD

Menmaro.4607:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

You for real right? Mesmers have clones and illusions that do a ton of damage, not to mention doing damage in stealth doesn’t reveal them as they can still stack up conditions.

You’re one of those people that gets kitten on by thieves yet cant play one to save your life aren’t you?

and which illusions and clones are those? lol i cant remember the last time i died against illusions, shatters? yes, but just “tons of damages illusions”? i think it was 2 years ago

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

You say emotionally charged, but he provided concise logical reasoning in accordance with the stated perspective of “equality” in mind. Rather ironically, you appear to be projecting your own emotionally charged self onto him instead. It’s funny, really.

Velimere.7685:

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

You say emotionally charged, but he provided concise logical reasoning in accordance with the stated perspective of “equality” in mind. Rather ironically, you appear to be projecting your own emotionally charged self onto him instead. It’s funny, really.

I don’t even play thief and that was about as emotionally upset as you can get w/out breaking the ToS.

There’s no reason for the change b/c that shiny new GM trait in their SA traitline is never used, and it’s literally just a flat out nerf to a class that is perhaps the weakest in the game.

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

“Special”

You’re right thief is pretty special. They’re unique in having the most bad 1v1 match ups and the worst team fight presence. But yeah, one class isn’t “special” in one way so I guess it’s completely fair to kitten thief up. Never mind all those other ways that mesmers are “special.” Can thief have a boonshare build? I’d kill for mesmer shield on my thief.

What’s worse is when you get interrupted by a mesmer with power block and it becomes 15s.

Mirrodin.8729:

Menmaro.4607:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

You for real right? Mesmers have clones and illusions that do a ton of damage, not to mention doing damage in stealth doesn’t reveal them as they can still stack up conditions.

You’re one of those people that gets kitten on by thieves yet cant play one to save your life aren’t you?

and which illusions and clones are those? lol i cant remember the last time i died against illusions, shatters? yes, but just “tons of damages illusions”? i think it was 2 years ago

Yeah I meant shatters lol

Wow, I wouldn’t have guessed, that a simple statement you cannot argue with, would push this much uproar. Who’s accusing whom for being “emotionally charged”?

You have to admit, that Thiefs can get the most out of stealth. And their stealth attack is always stronger than any other attack from the same weapon set. And you don’t even lose your stealth, if your attacks get blocked, evaded or even missed. The 1 sec cd for a strong attack on a profession, which uses no cooldowns on weapon attacks at all, looks like a good deal to me.

Azukas.1426:

Velimere.7685:

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

You say emotionally charged, but he provided concise logical reasoning in accordance with the stated perspective of “equality” in mind. Rather ironically, you appear to be projecting your own emotionally charged self onto him instead. It’s funny, really.

I don’t even play thief and that was about as emotionally upset as you can get w/out breaking the ToS.

You are completely and utterly incorrect.

AllNightPlayer.1286:

Wow, I wouldn’t have guessed, that a simple statement you cannot argue with, would push this much uproar. Who’s accusing whom for being “emotionally charged”?

You have to admit, that Thiefs can get the most out of stealth. And their stealth attack is always stronger than any other attack from the same weapon set. And you don’t even lose your stealth, if your attacks get blocked, evaded or even missed. The 1 sec cd for a strong attack on a profession, which uses no cooldowns on weapon attacks at all, looks like a good deal to me.

You forgot to add that thieves can’t 1v1 any class unless the people playing are braindead. They have very little condi clear, no blocks (except for bandits defense which can only be used once a minute), kitten damage on sb, 0 teamfight potential, drop like a feather when cc’ed. Need I go on?

Yeah the thief’s stealth attack could be “OP” on any other class but thief. Stealth attacks are what made thieves unique and sure you wouldn’t get punished as much if you missed it before but let’s remember this. To set up a stealth attack on d/d you need to first land CnD which is 5 or 6 init I believe, then you need to position yourself behind a moving hero and hope to the lord that they dont have the brain cells to dodge as soon as they see u stealth, and only then you hit about 9k damage tops? I agree that d/p needed a nerf but this one completely kittened over any X/D build in existence.

Yeah a bullkitten nerf. Was completely unneeded.

Make stealth abilities an f2 function and allow for auto attacks.

Bit of a false equivalence. Stealth attacks are not really auto-attacks but are Thief specific modifiers that replace your auto-attack. They are more powerful than auto-attacks either by offering more damage as a burst or some form of CC. These equivalent skills on other classes are cooldown dependent so Thief is already winning in this regard because we only have a 1 second downtime between using these skills rather than being dependent on a bespoke cooldown. So not much point imposing a 1 second penalty to all auto-attacks from stealth when they’re not the same as stealth skills.

However, I think there is a scenario where spamming an auto-attack from stealth instead of using a stealth attack could be beneficial – basically when your target has very little health and a stealth attack is unneeded and a single part of your auto-chain would suffice in killing someone. At which point this is a mechanical change to Thief only. But at the same time in most scenarios it would be beneficial to use a higher damage skill such as Vault or Shadow shot instead of a stealth attack, so not exactly a high priority change.

Suggestion: revealed on sneak attack try.

Then, you have normal auto attacks.
Problem solved.

AllNightPlayer.1286:

Wow, I wouldn’t have guessed, that a simple statement you cannot argue with, would push this much uproar. Who’s accusing whom for being “emotionally charged”?

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

On a side note. Dayyyyuuum yo I can sound Hella proper when I’m feeling it.

triggerhappy.3871:

Suggestion: revealed on sneak attack try.

Then, you have normal auto attacks.
Problem solved.

Only if the sneak attack is unblockable lol. Unless you want DH to counter thief even more.

Menmaro.4607:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

Wow, I wouldn’t have guessed, that a simple statement you cannot argue with, would push this much uproar. Who’s accusing whom for being “emotionally charged”?

You have to admit, that Thiefs can get the most out of stealth. And their stealth attack is always stronger than any other attack from the same weapon set. And you don’t even lose your stealth, if your attacks get blocked, evaded or even missed. The 1 sec cd for a strong attack on a profession, which uses no cooldowns on weapon attacks at all, looks like a good deal to me.

You forgot to add that thieves can’t 1v1 any class unless the people playing are braindead. They have very little condi clear, no blocks (except for bandits defense which can only be used once a minute), kitten damage on sb, 0 teamfight potential, drop like a feather when cc’ed. Need I go on?

Yeah the thief’s stealth attack could be “OP” on any other class but thief. Stealth attacks are what made thieves unique and sure you wouldn’t get punished as much if you missed it before but let’s remember this. To set up a stealth attack on d/d you need to first land CnD which is 5 or 6 init I believe, then you need to position yourself behind a moving hero and hope to the lord that they dont have the brain cells to dodge as soon as they see u stealth, and only then you hit about 9k damage tops? I agree that d/p needed a nerf but this one completely kittened over any X/D build in existence.

d/p makes thief barely viable in pvp and you want nerfs? Post more nonsense please.

triggerhappy.3871:

Suggestion: revealed on sneak attack try.

Then, you have normal auto attacks.
Problem solved.

At this point, that’s not so bad. I’m not sure about it applying Revealed, though. Simply removing Stealth may be better.

At least it would finally give a Thief the ability to leave Stealth early without hitting anything… which they should have had since the beginning.

It’s not like a Thief can currently get more than 1 attempt before Stealth runs out anyway… at least in a real combat scenario. Stealth-stacking in combat is so old-fashioned :-(

Cynz.9437:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

3k dmg? On what, your auto attack?

Backstab hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for around 3.5k and can crit as high as 10k. Lotus Strike hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for 2.5k and can crit as high as 8k. And with most thieves running around with 70%+ crit chance they can and do frequently 2-shot heavy armor classes.

You have an almost-instant guaranteed stomp with the uppercut combo. no other class can stomp that fast or with that much impunity. Engi comes close with shrink invul but that can still be evaded with some downed skills.

You can disengage and reset basically at will. You have the single best mobility in the game, by a HUGE margin.

Pretty much the only thing thieves are lacking is group utility. And even then, they’re not completely dry. Staff does okay in team fights, P/P melts things pretty quick from a safe range, and you’ve got a bunch of combo fields and your near-instant-stomp to bring.

I really don’t understand why thieves are complaining about 1v1 in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on group fights.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

3k dmg? On what, your auto attack?

Backstab hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for around 3.5k and can crit as high as 10k. Lotus Strike hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for 2.5k and can crit as high as 8k. And with most thieves running around with 70%+ crit chance they can and do frequently 2-shot heavy armor classes.

You have an almost-instant guaranteed stomp with the uppercut combo. no other class can stomp that fast or with that much impunity. Engi comes close with shrink invul but that can still be evaded with some downed skills.

You can disengage and reset basically at will. You have the single best mobility in the game, by a HUGE margin.

Pretty much the only thing thieves are lacking is group utility. And even then, they’re not completely dry. Staff does okay in team fights, P/P melts things pretty quick from a safe range, and you’ve got a bunch of combo fields and your near-instant-stomp to bring.

I really don’t understand why thieves are complaining about 1v1 in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on group fights.

In group fights thieves can’t commit to without dying staff lasts longer than other sets but barely since the after cast on Vault, P/P is only able to burst hard if you dump all initiative into unload spam which drains 1/3 of the Thief’s initiative per activation and with the amount of reflect and projectile hate in game either the thief nukes them self or a teammate or it does nothing at all.

And one backstab non crit behind against a Meta Condi Warrior with the Meta thief build.

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07)/3247=2028.117 non crit so no wear near the 3.5k baseline you profess.

Now let’s see the crit with that.

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07)/3247=3934.547. So no where near your proposed 8k.

Now let’s see for some reason said non meta build damage without toughness

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07)/2228=2955.69 still not 3.5k
With lead Attacks
(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07*1.09)/2228=3221.7 non crit

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07)/2228=5734.05 still not 8k damage

With Lead attacks
(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07*1.09)/2228=6250.11 nowhere near 8k still

Edit to add Even more damage modifiers to account for Lead attacks so the normal BP to HS combo for stealth will make 9% damage increase.

and Meta build Thieves have 54% crit chance and 74% if they have Fury which only last 10 seconds every 20 seconds on steal

Add to it protection and other dmg reducing spells/traits, not to mention close to perma weakness either applied by attacks or passives. The only class thief can crit for higher than 5k dmg nowdays is… other thieves and only of all the stars align.

I’d prefer that you get one shot at hitting a backstab once you stealth, and it rolls back to your normal auto if it misses; I just presume they don’t have the tech.

Ensign.2189:

I’d prefer that you get one shot at hitting a backstab once you stealth, and it rolls back to your normal auto if it misses; I just presume they don’t have the tech.

Because class wasn’t designed around having CD on stealth attacks on first place. They would have to remake part of class concept just because this change makes the use of class mechanics stupidly clunky and unrewarding. Imagine mesmers AA would go on CD every time he uses shatter or guard’s – when he uses virtrues.
This is what happens when original devs don’t work on game anymore.

Cynz.9437:

Add to it protection and other dmg reducing spells/traits, not to mention close to perma weakness either applied by attacks or passives. The only class thief can crit for higher than 5k dmg nowdays is… other thieves and only of all the stars align.

Shall I start dumping screenshots of 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12k crits from thieves on my DH or warrior?

How about the 37k crit my necro suffered?

Or the uppercut while downed that crit me for 17k on my rev?

In a good team comp, a thief will have 15-20 stacks of might if he’s even remotely close to a team fight. So add 450-600 power to those calculations and they go up 125-250%, putting them all well over 3.5k.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

Add to it protection and other dmg reducing spells/traits, not to mention close to perma weakness either applied by attacks or passives. The only class thief can crit for higher than 5k dmg nowdays is… other thieves and only of all the stars align.

Shall I start dumping screenshots of 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12k crits from thieves on my DH or warrior?

How about the 37k crit my necro suffered?

Or the uppercut while downed that crit me for 17k on my rev?

In a good team comp, a thief will have 15-20 stacks of might if he’s even remotely close to a team fight. So add 450-600 power to those calculations and they go up 125-250%, putting them all well over 3.5k.

The only way you would see anywhere near such numbers, if they had 25 stacks of might, you were running zerker amy and had 25 stacks of vulnerability.

Basically, for thief to actually decent dmg (and you confirm it too) they need a team buffing the thief and debuffing the enemy. Sry, to burst your bubble, but ANY class would do insane dmg under such circumstances. Frankly i think rev/dh/war would pull out higher numbers while being way more bunkery, given same conditions.

Numbers on downed body are hardly presentation of the actual dmg of the class. Honestly, why the hell even bring them up?

Also, 37k single hit backstab doesn’t exist in pvp. Period. But sure, post your screenshots, let’s see that miracle dmg from backstab from this season.

I also have great idea – how about you go play thief and fight half decent teams, don’t forget to record your adventures so we can see how you pull those amazing numbers consistently.

Cynz.9437:

Ensign.2189:

I’d prefer that you get one shot at hitting a backstab once you stealth, and it rolls back to your normal auto if it misses; I just presume they don’t have the tech.

Because class wasn’t designed around having CD on stealth attacks on first place. They would have to remake part of class concept just because this change makes the use of class mechanics stupidly clunky and unrewarding. Imagine mesmers AA would go on CD every time he uses shatter or guard’s – when he uses virtrues.
This is what happens when original devs don’t work on game anymore.

That doesn’t make any sense at all. Reverting your stealth attacks to regular AA isn’t putting a CD on your auto attacks, so how in the world is it comparable to putting a cooldown on an autoattack of a different class?

OriOri.8724:

Cynz.9437:

Ensign.2189:

I’d prefer that you get one shot at hitting a backstab once you stealth, and it rolls back to your normal auto if it misses; I just presume they don’t have the tech.

Because class wasn’t designed around having CD on stealth attacks on first place. They would have to remake part of class concept just because this change makes the use of class mechanics stupidly clunky and unrewarding. Imagine mesmers AA would go on CD every time he uses shatter or guard’s – when he uses virtrues.
This is what happens when original devs don’t work on game anymore.

That doesn’t make any sense at all. Reverting your stealth attacks to regular AA isn’t putting a CD on your auto attacks, so how in the world is it comparable to putting a cooldown on an autoattack of a different class?

No, the point is, the whole change to 1 CD was stupid and against initial class design, the stealth attacks were designed around not having CD, just pre- and aftercast.

I am not talking about switching to AA when stealth attack is on CD. Even if they did it, it still proves that devs throw away base class concept for a change that makes no sense in current meta on first place.

It is simply very very very bad and clueless balance decision and there is nothing to argue about.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

Add to it protection and other dmg reducing spells/traits, not to mention close to perma weakness either applied by attacks or passives. The only class thief can crit for higher than 5k dmg nowdays is… other thieves and only of all the stars align.

Shall I start dumping screenshots of 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12k crits from thieves on my DH or warrior?

How about the 37k crit my necro suffered?

Or the uppercut while downed that crit me for 17k on my rev?

In a good team comp, a thief will have 15-20 stacks of might if he’s even remotely close to a team fight. So add 450-600 power to those calculations and they go up 125-250%, putting them all well over 3.5k.

Even if the Thief had 25 stacks of might they would be at 8356 on a crit. And a thief will never be close to 25 stacks of might in PvP, and Thieves don’t participate in Team fights the majority of the time.

I think they are really late with updates. I remember preHoT pvp players was asking to nerf backstab. Many people were asking for backstab or stealth-attack get revealed after attack is blocked. I think this patch would solve issue from back then.

However patch came just now, and its plain kitten comparing to how many blocks-dodges-etc now in game.

Not to mention how stealth-attacks like backstab is outdated comparing to vault or just plain d/p autoattack chain. This nerf will solve nothing, as always wrong things getting boosted and nerfed.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

3k dmg? On what, your auto attack?

Backstab hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for around 3.5k and can crit as high as 10k. Lotus Strike hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for 2.5k and can crit as high as 8k. And with most thieves running around with 70%+ crit chance they can and do frequently 2-shot heavy armor classes.

You have an almost-instant guaranteed stomp with the uppercut combo. no other class can stomp that fast or with that much impunity. Engi comes close with shrink invul but that can still be evaded with some downed skills.

You can disengage and reset basically at will. You have the single best mobility in the game, by a HUGE margin.

Pretty much the only thing thieves are lacking is group utility. And even then, they’re not completely dry. Staff does okay in team fights, P/P melts things pretty quick from a safe range, and you’ve got a bunch of combo fields and your near-instant-stomp to bring.

I really don’t understand why thieves are complaining about 1v1 in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on group fights.

This guy clearly doesn’t know anything about thieves. Troll spotted.
And I don’t even try to argue why thieves are in need of a huge buff in the current meta because has being said over and over by others and if Anet can’t see it and keep nerfing and buffing the wrong classes, I can’t do much but leave pvp to all the brainless people left.

Some thieves are easy kills others kill you before you know where they are…

I’m sorry I didn’t read all of this, only some.

So if you think 1s CD on BS is right, becouse of dmg it offers then you are wrong, you haven’t played thief at all, you don’t like to be +1 by thieves and that’s all …

If you actually play thief, you know that this CD hurts in only 3 matchups.

vs other thief, vs engi and vs mesmer, why you may ask ?

If you are decent thief you will just land your BS always, it’s not that hard and it doesn’t need 0.1s CD to do massive dmg. Now if you are vs someone who has acces to stealth, it’s totally a different story.

Let’s assume you are vs thief or mesmer, they stealth and so do you, becouse you want be the one engaging. You don’t see each other, so generally you would just AA where your opponent should be, but with such high CD on your AA all you can do is wait … in such situation I would actually want to have normall AA instead of BS, becouse if you hit your opponent, you see fire blast then he is donzo. There is not a single other situation where this CD is burdensome.

Peace

Hitting said person isn’t the main issue man, it’kittenting them while a passive defence pops up which are sometimes nie in possible to predict and cancel, what ever if its a block, a blind, an invul hell I am pretty sure bv can stop your own bs (pretty sure the stun happens before the dmg).

DoomKnightMax.6592:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

This reminds me of me when I first started mesmer. I used to hate thieves during the S/D meta. But then I got good and learned to play. Do I still lose to good thieves? Yes. Does that mean I think the nerf to stealth attacks is fair? No. Learn to put your emotionally charged opinions aside before jumping on a class balance post.

On a side note. Dayyyyuuum yo I can sound Hella proper when I’m feeling it.

Hmmm MAYBE your changed perception of S/D thieves had something to do with the fact that they were nerfed to the point where noone plays them anymore…

Since stealth in gw2 is really the no1 kittened mechanic with neither skill nor any form of awareness involved, Arenanet should simply rework the whole thing.

mordran.4750:

Since stealth in gw2 is really the no1 kittened mechanic with neither skill nor any form of awareness involved, Arenanet should simply rework the whole thing.

Several classes have access to reveal and because of the nature of thief, it is usually fairly obvious what they’re about to do if you see them stealth. The problem is that requires intuition and foresight, which doesn’t fit with the whole passive defenses/auto procs that are super popular now.

At this point though, I’d almost rather have them just flat out replace stealth just so that people can stop whining and thief can actually get a defensive class mechanic besides evades that works. So many new players(even some old) fail the skill check against dealing with stealthed enemies so they all come here to rant and rave about “getting 20k backstab instakilled from stealth from across the map”, so stealth in general just keeps dragging the class down further and further, eventually becoming a liability as opposed to a benefit for the class.