Guild Wars 2

butch.8136:

Will you consider having this seasons standing affect the next seasons starting point to alleviate the population spread issue in the beginning? (a la hearthstone)

For example: if you end the season in legendary div, you start the next season from sapphire or ruby.

In addition, will you consider placement matches? This could also alleviate the issue.

Doubt it everything has to be a long grind for anet.

Now that I think about it, this post from ANet just annoys me even more. How can they not realise that the mixed queue will never ever ever ever ever kittening work in this game.

So apparently the solo vs team issue was present because some teams were reseting their MMR. Will we see less solo vs premades from now on? Otherwise the system is still a fail

All of this avoids the inescapable truth: Matchmaking does not and cannot work.

You cannot determine an individual’s skill level in a random team of 5, in addition to an individual’s skill being variable dependent on that individual. A simple test will verify this. Reset everyone’s MMR to new for the league season. I’m pretty sure no one will notice the difference or may even have a better experience.

Example I played a match with no afking or dcs. Our team lost 500-90 and I lost two pips which means we were heavily favoured to win. Who knows maybe it was -3 pips but -2 pips took me to zero for the tier anyway. This exemplifies just how useless the system is.

We have a highly complicated algorithmically derived MMR which produces the same effect as if it didn’t exist, or likely makes things worse. The MMR tries to get rid of base randomness (50% win/loss rate) and replaced it with structured randomness (50% win/loss rate) resulting in utter madness. Even if it did work, matchmaking is conceptually flawed. One player with extremely high MMR + 4 low MMR players does not equal 5 medium MMR players. The truth is MMR hides the true imbalances between classes, without it you would see clusters of certain classes topping the league system.

So the pro teams that abused the system get to keep their progress without any punishment? LOL.

Sorry, but that’s not acceptable.

Anet, admit it has been a disaster, do a hard reset, that’s the only fair way to address the fiasco.

rchu.8945:

So the pro teams that abused the system get to keep their progress without any punishment? LOL.

Sorry, but that’s not acceptable.

Anet, admit it has been a disaster, do a hard reset, that’s the only fair way to address the fiasco.

+1 thanks for letting us know, hopefully the problems will be fixed soon

Vague Memory.2817:

All of this avoids the inescapable truth: Matchmaking does not and cannot work.

You cannot determine an individual’s skill level in a random team of 5, in addition to an individual’s skill being variable dependent on that individual. A simple test will verify this. Reset everyone’s MMR to new for the league season.

Maybe you are new to gw2, but once upon a time, we had a purely mmr based ladder. (It had problems with win streaks of new players and non permanent decay, but let’s leave that appart.) Back in the day the mmr got reset on multiple occasions, but guess what… the top 100 players got back to being the top 100 players within days/weeks.

So yeah, it seems the system can detect individual skill.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Pip/Point behavior is difficult to understand

You gain a variable number of pips depending on the difficulty your match-up (from -3 to +3). The majority of games (even matches) are +1/-1 for winning/losing. The odds of winning a match is based off of division standing between the two teams involved and roster sizes. If you’re heavily disfavored in a match-up (the system predicts that you should lose), you could potentially gain up to 3 points for winning. You also gain partial points as you cross point thresholds, so there’s always a reason to keep trying even if you don’t win. The system also works the other way around. If you’re favored to win, but lose, you’ll lose more pips than you would in an even match.

Now to the crux of the issue – it’s not entirely clear why you’re winning or losing X amount of pips after a match, as the odds are not displayed to the player. We’re looking at making changes to the in-game UI to communicate this more clearly, but this won’t be in for season one.

Gaile, it was mentioned to us in the blog posts that it was possible to still gain a pip for doing well in a match the MMR system believes you could not possibly win. Is this still true?

Is this only if your entire team does well? EG: You have 495 points, and enemy has 500. Or is your personal scoring taken into account?

It feels like if your team has given up – there’s little to no incentive for you to push hard individually.

TPMN.1483:

The system is so broken

I feel like I’m stuck in mmr hell.

You’re not the only one… I lose a MATCH : Lose TWO PIPS !!! (When my other team mates have given up).

Lose a match with < 50 points difference always lose a PIP.
Win a match with any number of points : Win ONE PIP.

This is just so broken – its unbelievable.
If you’re carrying your team – you should be gaining a PIP especially when its a close loss (and you’re not favoured to win).

We all stated in the last season – it needed to show what score your team needed to achieve:
(a) Not lose a pip
(b) Your % chance of winning
© The individual players MMRs
(d) Gain thresholds for winning pips
- there also needs to be a Profession basis on your likelyhood to win..

Example: 2 Mesmers, 2 Necro, 1 War
VS
2 Rev, 2 Guard, Ele

The 2nd team is favoured to win due to class composition if both teams have same MMR.

This is something that needs to be fixed ASAP – locking in a class MMR and prevent rerolling classes mid- (or prior to start of) a match.

About the points for each mach: ok I admit I am frustrated: you play the best you can, you hold 2 people on one point without using even a bunker build, you have the maximum score… but your team does not capitalize the numeric advantage, and you loose a pip.
I perfectly now that the best score in the team does not really mean you were the best player, but it is terribly frustrating to lose the same amount of positions no matter how you play.
Just getting 1/-1/1/-1 is already unnerving, but when everything is based on pure luck you really start thinking to stop.
I played other games with similar systems, and maybe because the point range was much higher ( like from -15 to max +15), even if I was an average player I managed to reach good-mid division without getting mad.
Maybe we need more variability, maybe we need more personal score, and I really hope that things will get better in a few days, but right now I am not convinced

Question for any developer feeling cavalier enough to answer, why do balance changes take 3-4 months? is there any internal logic within the balance team to justify why we experience changes in the seasons more often than balance changes?

Any chance of getting a response or do I have to post about it on the subreddit to elicit one?…

PVP in this game became broken, bad and unfun. PVE is plain grindfest.

Too many mistakes by Anet lately, losing more players than gaining, you are walking path of Wildstar, and we know how they ended up.

Teutos.8620:

Vague Memory.2817:

All of this avoids the inescapable truth: Matchmaking does not and cannot work.

You cannot determine an individual’s skill level in a random team of 5, in addition to an individual’s skill being variable dependent on that individual. A simple test will verify this. Reset everyone’s MMR to new for the league season.

Maybe you are new to gw2, but once upon a time, we had a purely mmr based ladder. (It had problems with win streaks of new players and non permanent decay, but let’s leave that appart.) Back in the day the mmr got reset on multiple occasions, but guess what… the top 100 players got back to being the top 100 players within days/weeks.

So yeah, it seems the system can detect individual skill.

No I’m not new at all, I’m close to 6K ranked matches. You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all. If you looked at the old rankings you would see on average win rates of around 35%-51%. I know because I managed to reach rank 19 (48-52% win rate) through playing lots of games alone. If I kept playing at the same rate I would have made the top 10, but I burnt out and stopped playing.

Was my rank reached through skill, I would like to think so, but that is not the reality. There were people much higher ranking than me who had 45% win rate or less but played many more games. Think about it logically how can a system determine your skill level when you always play in a PUG team of 5, it can’t.

Now about that SoloQ?

Another idea:

Why not (instead of pure solo-q) limit the party size to say a maximum of 3.!

Personally I never really Q with more than one other person in a party, and playing as say a 2/2 1.1.1 isn’t a huge difference to a 3.1.1. Yes it’s a little more challenging if the other team is competent and/or yours aren’t but…

You already have the “guild” league for teams of five pre-made (however much of a joke that is at the moment) and the matchmaking in the normal league (IMO) should never stick 5 pugs or a 2.1.1.1 against a full pre-made: Ever. So maybe having the option, same as you have “stronghold/conquest” to choose max party size could be an idea…

At least then people could choose what they actually want to play, and enjoy the challenge. If they want the chance to play against a full pre-made: They can choose to do so.

Just a thought.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Now to the crux of the issue – it’s not entirely clear why you’re winning or losing X amount of pips after a match, as the odds are not displayed to the player. We’re looking at making changes to the in-game UI to communicate this more clearly, but this won’t be in for season one.

Thanks for the update Gaile. Do you know if the threshold scores are only team based? Is it possible for a player to earn a pip from personal performance? Has there been any talk about this?

It’s just that sometimes individuals put in a great effort, but still fall short for various reasons, and could be punished by losing a pip for something that isn’t necessarily within their control.

Is there anyway that fixes could be made to this season. I’m only slightly okay that this season feels more and more like a test. It is completely unacceptable that the next season is another test of let’s try these new items and fixes. This season, in my opinion, needs to be the one where all ideas and tries put to the test so the first season of 2016 is not more, we’ll fix it next time, statements.

We did – make this feedback in the forums on the last season – which ended: 2015-05-14 .
More than 6 months ago !

What about the insanely bad balance, when’s that going to be looked at?

Vague Memory.2817:

You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all.

The Pre Dec 2014 ladder was not about games played. It was a purely MMR based ladder with the inclusion of decay. It got reset multiple times (more than two times).

Your statistic was on the ladder AFTER the mmr ladder which was a purely farm ladder.

On the pure MMR ladder (pre dec 2014) you were not even listed in the top 1.000.
If you want to check out the old mmr ladder, you can still find the data on http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history

Chase.8415:

StickerHappy.8052:

But when do we address Pug vs Premade?

The Losing of pips wouldn’t be that bad if they were even matches.

Effectively, the league system is the same as this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/

The irony is there is so many players that you rarely get more than +1, instead you get -2 games. But the point here is, even if you lose against a premade you can win league pips, in theory.

Chaith.8256:

StickerHappy.8052:

Here is the problem

Even in Emerald grinding is very hard, you HAVE to win 5 straight matches to ensure a safe tier spot. As a solo q player, How often will that happen?

Or winning 2-3 and losing 1-2 a few times. 5 Wins in a row is not the only way to progress, that’s kind of silly to expect..

The problem that I’m running into is I will win 2 games, gain 2 pips. Lose 1 game. Lose 2 pips. And the games that I lose I don’t just lose. I get ANNIHILATED. It is clearly individuals who tanked their MMR rating to get a good matchup. Meanwhile I try to play the game as intended and end up wasting hours getting out-exploited.

This is a broken system. Threatening to ban people that manipulate it will get nowhere. This is not an effective way to fix this clearly ineffective design. And displaying the starting ranks and potential pip win/loss will not improve the situation. It will just give a metric to track MMR tanking.

The fact that a ton of testing was done last year at around this time for this specific system and it’s in the state it’s in is an egregious error. I played a ton just to help you guys during that testing phase. A lot of these are really gross oversights and I don’t believe it’s your guys fault. I think if you want to grow this game into something it needs a bigger team.

Management needs to loosen the purse strings.

[/quote]

The problem that I’m running into is I will win 2 games, gain 2 pips. Lose 1 game. Lose 2 pips. And the games that I lose I don’t just lose. I get ANNIHILATED. It is clearly individuals who tanked their MMR rating to get a good matchup. Meanwhile I try to play the game as intended and end up wasting hours getting out-exploited.

This is a broken system. Threatening to ban people that manipulate it will get nowhere. This is not an effective way to fix this clearly ineffective design. And displaying the starting ranks and potential pip win/loss will not improve the situation. It will just give a metric to track MMR tanking.[/quote]

.> Finding this too now. Its stupid how I can go down 2 pips – when I’m playing at my best. You’re too reliant on team composition vs other team comp – for if you’ll actually win or not.

10 losses in a row.. I`m not even trying to lower my mmr. Great kittening match making you have there..

yeah, real crappy matchmaking. I found 4 other players i like playing with for premades.. NON GUILD, straight up puggers to try to tackle divison, before the patch we got a solid 11 wins based off of teamwork and skill, none of us tanked MMR.

now we’re all individually discouraged because we’re facing crazy OP stacked gimmick build teams or full on 100% condition+cc pressure comps that just faceroll.

overnight, we went to having fun meeting challenging teams and winning 500-470ish to… I haven’t even seen my new friends log in after patch. progress on tiers has halted for all of us more or less, and we just get burnt out and /log for the day

edit:
prior to the patch/hotfixes we were facing harder and harder teams, having to adjust mid game as a team to overcome and win but now it’s just gg defeat streak against really bad exploit comps since the patch hit.

Started Div. 2, Tier 2 with 3 pips.

Played 10 hrs yesterday and 8 hrs today.

Finished today same Div, same Tier, 0 pips.

I’ll take a year or two off until you get this sorted out, Anet. The p2w classes are almost as infuriating as the league system. WTB visible metrics and a system with enough common sense not to mix div.1 players (can’t lose a pip) with div.2 players (can lose 2 pips).

The “gain 2 pips” and “lose 2 pips” system is okay, but what about “neither gain nor lose if you play well?” Lost 2 matches that would have advanced my tier 499-502. Infuriating.

These are really great news. Thanks for communicating with us!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hi all,

We’ve been closely monitoring PvP Leagues since their release this last Tuesday and we’d like to provide an update on where things currently stand. Some of this information is available in other locations, but it’s always good to have everything in one place.

Match Manipulation

There have been reports of players intentionally losing games in an effort to lower their overall matchmaking rating. The idea is that if they lower their rating, their subsequent games will become easier, and they will gain pips more reliably in future win streaks. Regardless of how unlikely this is to actually happen (read on for why), we’re still not cool with players intentionally losing as this is in direct violation of our Code of Conduct.

In the short-term, our customer support team will be investigating reports of this and punishing the behavior accordingly. Please use the “Botting” reporting option to bring these instances to the attention of our team. For a longer-term solution, we’ll be working on improving the in-game reporting system to better handle these types of situations. Chris Clearly has been posting on the topic here.

Queue Times and Division Matchmaking

As Evan Lesh mentioned on reddit matchmaking rating and division standing are both used equally for matchmaking. This is currently affecting both queue times and matchmaking, especially in higher divisions. The season has only been active for three days, so there are fewer players in the higher tiers, meaning less people for matchmaking in those divisions. This will correct itself as the season progresses and players begin spreading through the divisions more evenly. Related to the point above, tanking MMR for the purposes of easier matches isn’t feasible considering division still plays a large part in the matches you get.

Forfeit wins and pip loss

We will be correcting a bug where players can lose pips after a win if someone in their party had disconnected for longer than 2 minutes, causing a forfeit. This fix should be in our next release.

Guild Team MMR Workaround

Today we fixed an issue that allowed high-skilled players to constantly spin up new guild teams and have themselves matched with lower-skilled players because of how personal MMR and team MMR worked together. This gave them faster queue times, faster league progression, and allowed them to climb the Guild Challenger League more quickly than intended for each team created. As mentioned above, we’re aware of the longer queue times for high-rated teams, but this is mostly attributed to how divisions are factored into matchmaking and should be less of an issue as the season progresses. Additionally, we will also be enabling rating decay on the Guild Team Leaderboard after we have enough data to determine the correct values to decay by. This will cause inactive teams to fall down the leaderboard.

Pip/Point behavior is difficult to understand

You gain a variable number of pips depending on the difficulty your match-up (from -3 to +3). The majority of games (even matches) are +1/-1 for winning/losing. The odds of winning a match is based off of division standing between the two teams involved and roster sizes. If you’re heavily disfavored in a match-up (the system predicts that you should lose), you could potentially gain up to 3 points for winning. You also gain partial points as you cross point thresholds, so there’s always a reason to keep trying even if you don’t win. The system also works the other way around. If you’re favored to win, but lose, you’ll lose more pips than you would in an even match.

Now to the crux of the issue – it’s not entirely clear why you’re winning or losing X amount of pips after a match, as the odds are not displayed to the player. We’re looking at making changes to the in-game UI to communicate this more clearly, but this won’t be in for season one.

Vial of Salt

This amulet will be updated to correctly have ascended stats with our next release.

In closing…

We’d like to thank everyone for their feedback so far. Leagues are a complicated system and we’ll be iterating on it until we get it right.

I really appreciate the changes, even though this one isn’t gamebreaking or anything, I’m a little upset that the llama mini pet is so easy to get now. I was on the leaderboards last seasons as I played a lot of matches to get in the top 500 so it was kind of a symbol of “hey, this guy was o nthe leaderboards.”

Now that everyone has it and get it through just doing amber, I feel like that mini I worked really hard for earlier this year was devalued greatly.

Gaile Gray.6029:

In the short-term, our customer support team will be investigating reports of this and punishing the behavior accordingly. Please use the “Botting” reporting option to bring these instances to the attention of our team. For a longer-term solution, we’ll be working on improving the in-game reporting system to better handle these types of situations. Chris Clearly has been posting on the topic here.

Un-kittening-real. One more example of just how little attention is given to WvW. We’ve asked for a reporting tool for 3 years. We’ve had all kinds of trolling behavior, such as people building siege to waste supply, people building siege to fill the maps or local siege limit. One thing the community asked for was better reporting tools, and we never got it. 3 days after this shenanigans happening in a pvp tournament, and you get all the love. Oh, and what about the deliberate fixing of WvW season 2 that was well documented and shown to Anet? They said they weren’t going to do anything about it. Makes me want to puke.

I do appreciate that you guys are getting this attention. At least one pvp game mode is getting something. But, honestly, all this could have been figured out in one hour of a meeting. It just takes common sense. Just ask the question: how can this system be abused, if at all? What will people do to progress easier than we intend? Why is is so hard for Anet to figure these things out before releasing content?

Cowboy.5982:

It is very funny to lose the day for nothing, I had the same problem as you because I play solo q and I often fall agains teams organized.

It is beyond frustrating to basically progress nowhere after hours upon hours of gameplay. I loved it when ranked matches came back…
Now I’m wishing it never had.

I am considering un-installing.

sinject.4607:

Question for any developer feeling cavalier enough to answer, why do balance changes take 3-4 months? is there any internal logic within the balance team to justify why we experience changes in the seasons more often than balance changes?

Any chance of getting a response or do I have to post about it on the subreddit to elicit one?…

I’m not a developer but I have had some experience in the field and balancing is harder that people think it is. Over buff something and it becomes OP, underbuff something and it’s still too weak. Same with nerfs. Under nerf it and it’s still too powerful, over nerf it and it becomes useless.

Teutos.8620:

Vague Memory.2817:

You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all.

The Pre Dec 2014 ladder was not about games played. It was a purely MMR based ladder with the inclusion of decay. It got reset multiple times (more than two times).

Your statistic was on the ladder AFTER the mmr ladder which was a purely farm ladder.

On the pure MMR ladder (pre dec 2014) you were not even listed in the top 1.000.
If you want to check out the old mmr ladder, you can still find the data on http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history

Why are you checking some ancient non-official board. How about checking the official GW2 one that is still up:

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2

You can clearly see the trend that people at the top have played many more games compared to people to who are lower ranked (go through pages 1-4). The ancient scoring was silly if you look at that site you posted someone had rank 4 from playing 13 games. That isn’t skill. You could rank up high by playing a small amount of games. You are trying to muddy the water (very poorly I might add) of what I was saying which is the MMR doesn’t measure skill, whether you are talking about the old or new MMR. But the old system was particularly bad which is why they changed it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hi all,

We’ve been closely monitoring PvP Leagues since their release this last Tuesday and we’d like to provide an update on where things currently stand. Some of this information is available in other locations, but it’s always good to have everything in one place.

Match Manipulation

There have been reports of players intentionally losing games in an effort to lower their overall matchmaking rating. The idea is that if they lower their rating, their subsequent games will become easier, and they will gain pips more reliably in future win streaks. Regardless of how unlikely this is to actually happen (read on for why), we’re still not cool with players intentionally losing as this is in direct violation of our Code of Conduct.

In the short-term, our customer support team will be investigating reports of this and punishing the behavior accordingly. Please use the “Botting” reporting option to bring these instances to the attention of our team. For a longer-term solution, we’ll be working on improving the in-game reporting system to better handle these types of situations. Chris Clearly has been posting on the topic here.

Queue Times and Division Matchmaking

As Evan Lesh mentioned on reddit matchmaking rating and division standing are both used equally for matchmaking. This is currently affecting both queue times and matchmaking, especially in higher divisions. The season has only been active for three days, so there are fewer players in the higher tiers, meaning less people for matchmaking in those divisions. This will correct itself as the season progresses and players begin spreading through the divisions more evenly. Related to the point above, tanking MMR for the purposes of easier matches isn’t feasible considering division still plays a large part in the matches you get.

Forfeit wins and pip loss

We will be correcting a bug where players can lose pips after a win if someone in their party had disconnected for longer than 2 minutes, causing a forfeit. This fix should be in our next release.

Guild Team MMR Workaround

Today we fixed an issue that allowed high-skilled players to constantly spin up new guild teams and have themselves matched with lower-skilled players because of how personal MMR and team MMR worked together. This gave them faster queue times, faster league progression, and allowed them to climb the Guild Challenger League more quickly than intended for each team created. As mentioned above, we’re aware of the longer queue times for high-rated teams, but this is mostly attributed to how divisions are factored into matchmaking and should be less of an issue as the season progresses. Additionally, we will also be enabling rating decay on the Guild Team Leaderboard after we have enough data to determine the correct values to decay by. This will cause inactive teams to fall down the leaderboard.

Pip/Point behavior is difficult to understand

You gain a variable number of pips depending on the difficulty your match-up (from -3 to +3). The majority of games (even matches) are +1/-1 for winning/losing. The odds of winning a match is based off of division standing between the two teams involved and roster sizes. If you’re heavily disfavored in a match-up (the system predicts that you should lose), you could potentially gain up to 3 points for winning. You also gain partial points as you cross point thresholds, so there’s always a reason to keep trying even if you don’t win. The system also works the other way around. If you’re favored to win, but lose, you’ll lose more pips than you would in an even match.

Now to the crux of the issue – it’s not entirely clear why you’re winning or losing X amount of pips after a match, as the odds are not displayed to the player. We’re looking at making changes to the in-game UI to communicate this more clearly, but this won’t be in for season one.

Vial of Salt

This amulet will be updated to correctly have ascended stats with our next release.

In closing…

We’d like to thank everyone for their feedback so far. Leagues are a complicated system and we’ll be iterating on it until we get it right.

Gaile, I need to be straight up honest. If Solo que isn’t added I do not foresee PVP growing if anything it will slowly dissipate. I won’t go into the reasoning why since you aware of this, but it needs to be noted that this should be a priority as well to improve leagues.

Vague Memory.2817:

Teutos.8620:

Vague Memory.2817:

You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all.

The Pre Dec 2014 ladder was not about games played. It was a purely MMR based ladder with the inclusion of decay. It got reset multiple times (more than two times).

Your statistic was on the ladder AFTER the mmr ladder which was a purely farm ladder.

On the pure MMR ladder (pre dec 2014) you were not even listed in the top 1.000.
If you want to check out the old mmr ladder, you can still find the data on http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history

Why are you checking some ancient non-official board. How about checking the official GW2 one that is still up:

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2

You can clearly see the trend that people at the top have played many more games compared to people to who are lower ranked (go through pages 1-4). The ancient scoring was silly if you look at that site you posted someone had rank 4 from playing 13 games. That isn’t skill. You could rank up high by playing a small amount of games. You are trying to muddy the water (very poorly I might add) of what I was saying which is the MMR doesn’t measure skill, whether you are talking about the old or new MMR. But the old system was particularly bad which is why they changed it.

I really don’t understand your problem. Maybe you just can’t read or you don’t want to understand the information I provided in the discussion, because it does not suit your point.

I’ll rephrase it for you again:
GW2 had multiple ladder system in the past.
The ladder AFTER Dec 2014 is the ladder you can see under https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2 It was a purely farm based ladder yes.

BEFORE Dec 2014 we had a purely MMR based ladder. The ladder looked like this: http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history This purely MMR based ladder got reset BEFORE Dec 2014 multiple times. The players who mad it in this PRE Dec MMR based ladder into the top 100 before every reset, also bad it back there after every reset.

=> CONCLUSION: Your initial statement, that we can’t determine skill in a five player game is proven wrong. Your own suggestion to “just reset the mmr” happened multiples times in the past and it showed that the same players who got a high mmr also got a high mmr after every reset.

What’s so hard to understand here?

Anet why are you matching team full of sapphires with diamonds & rubies? And make us lose a pip while having absolutely no enjoyable time during that match vs a pro premade team. I should be awarded 2-3 pips for getting tossed in the lion’s den. kitten

Why pvp players with high elo are still beeing punished for playing well? There is almost wo way to win 1v5 or 2v5 so why this matchmaking still wants 2 good players to carry 3 morons? Its impossible… DOomed from the start.

What happened to Stronghold?!

SillyAshy.2579:

What happened to Stronghold?!

Down for a week to fix a bug.

I’m still completely baffled that there’s no solo queue.

How do you expect to be taken seriously as a pvp game when you release league with premades vs solo queuers lol. How is that competitive at all?

Ranked deserves 0 respect until it is seperated.

Of course the population is so tiny and Anet has to cater to the premades because they’re trying so hard to force an esports (which is impossible btw), so letting premades farm solo queuers instead of waiting in queue forever is their top priority.

Really bad.

Hey PvP Team, where is that balance patch? This is the worst meta the game has ever had, even worse than Dhuumfire.

Me being at the first place 3 games in a row indicates something is wrong, also a team mate disconnected we won 4vs5 but it didn’t count and it was kinda of a bummer. However I got my pretty Llama so i am very happy and for now it does great for me.

The pip thing really is confusing since there’s no explanation anywhere in-game. I did a match yesterday that started horribly VS a team of 3 Revenants and had a 300 VS 37 losing score right off the bat but we somehow managed to win and I gained 2 pips from it. Then I googled and started asking people why and no one knew. XD
I’m just now seeing this thread. It seems like an odd system though and there are other things outside of player skill that effects win/loss such as someone disconnecting or having to afk and etc~ then you can end up losing 2-3 points for it?

I also agree with others who say pugs should fight pugs~ I prefer solo Q and would prefer to fight against the same kinda people and not premade teams, especially with those Mallyx Revenant duos and full DH teams out there.

Also, May I have Viper stats on my Vial of Salt, please? =)))

Not a word about the insane power creep.

Most players fail to recognize that, so imagine a company that doesn’t even play its own game!

Future looks grim.

Why is it do me and MY team, lose pips when we lose when I DC. I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR MY TEAM.

My computer CRASHED, in the beginning of the match then I was able to get back on before the match ended. Everyone lost a pip. AND I GOT DISHONORED. HOW THE HELL ANET?!!?

Really not fair. Respond to me please

Ara.4569:

Not a word about the insane power creep.

Most players fail to recognize that, so imagine a company that doesn’t even play its own game!

Future looks grim.

That’s because the topic is about the league system. Not about match making problems and neither about balancing problems.

Tzozef.9841:

Why is it do me and MY team, lose pips when we lose when I DC. I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR MY TEAM.

My computer CRASHED, in the beginning of the match then I was able to get back on before the match ended. Everyone lost a pip. AND I GOT DISHONORED. HOW THE HELL ANET?!!?

Really not fair. Respond to me please

Has been answered multiple times: This is a mechanism to prevent abuse.

Just think about what would happen if they did not loose anything for your dc: The match looks like you are going to loose? This time I’ll dc, next time it is your turn.

Teutos.8620:

I really don’t understand your problem. Maybe you just can’t read or you don’t want to understand the information I provided in the discussion, because it does not suit your point.

I’ll rephrase it for you again:
GW2 had multiple ladder system in the past.
The ladder AFTER Dec 2014 is the ladder you can see under https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2 It was a purely farm based ladder yes.

BEFORE Dec 2014 we had a purely MMR based ladder. The ladder looked like this: http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history This purely MMR based ladder got reset BEFORE Dec 2014 multiple times. The players who mad it in this PRE Dec MMR based ladder into the top 100 before every reset, also bad it back there after every reset.

=> CONCLUSION: Your initial statement, that we can’t determine skill in a five player game is proven wrong. Your own suggestion to “just reset the mmr” happened multiples times in the past and it showed that the same players who got a high mmr also got a high mmr after every reset.

What’s so hard to understand here?

What don’t you comprehend you are comparing a ladder system from 1 year ago with the current system which is completely different. The MMR then is not the same MMR of 1 year ago. It has changed considerably, read the dev posts to educate yourself. You are comparing an old terrible system with a much improved system, that is why it was changed. But the current system is still not great as you can read on the forums or from my own experience. The old scoreboard you posted doesn’t even make sense to me if someone can play 13-100 matches and end up in the top 10 rankings. If that scoreboard is accurate it is no wonder they radically changed the way it worked.

My original premise is base on the current MMR current system and not a previous worse system. The scoreboard I posted if anything is a better reflection of player skill than 1 year ago, even though you talk of it as if it were inferior, which it obviously isn’t.

In my OP I have already described a typical match making situation which uses MMR. As an idea I said if MMR was removed would we even notice the difference, and said to test the idea by resetting MMR. By doing so you could see if the difference between no MMR to full MMR over time. But in essence I don’t think it is possible to accurately determine a individual player’s skill level that always plays in a pug team of 5, especially through win/losses. To be fair it is an attempt to determine player skill, but I don’t think it is possible unless other in-match personal stats are used. I think the most important aspect of MMR is to provide balanced teams, i.e different classes + armour divisions. Losing 2 to 3 pips in the league against a team that wipes the floor with you shows something is wrong with MMR.

Umm, you won 4/10 which looks like MMR is working as intended.

Hi could you seperate SoloQ and TeamQ because it’s realy frustrating when you came across a Full team when you are SoloQing or DuoQing in Ranked.