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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

When I first started playing GW2 (beta), they said sPvP was all about being on an equal footing. No advantages.

My cousins Mzwaga, Sambu, Doodoo Foot and George would be able to buy the game today and we could: form a team, have access to and get a feel for ALL the meta builds, adjust our playstyles accordingly and compete with everyone on an equal footing.

That is not the case.

It would take forever to unlock all the heals and all the grandmaster traits to get a feel for how all the top tier builds played.

Why is this a thing? Why have we strayed so far from the intended goal of sPvP?

I used to be able to create a level 1 Ranger and test to see if I liked the current top tier Ranger build… now I need to generate 40 skill points to attempt this endeavour.

Having access to the most competitive builds shouldn’t be gated. At least I don’t think so.

What do you guys think?

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Posted by: Random Weird Guy.3528

Random Weird Guy.3528

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

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Posted by: Terrorsquad.2349

Terrorsquad.2349

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

Survival Ranger needs XIII traits x 2 (which are 40 skill points and 4-6g, I believe)

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

Fortunately, this is true, and 95% of all the unlocks are not going to give you a meta power increase over other builds.

However it’s the philosophy that he’s right about. What if actual meta traits become gated?

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Posted by: Terrorsquad.2349

Terrorsquad.2349

The only grandmaster traits in meta builds are:
Path of Corruption
———————————————
Read the Wind
Survival of the Fittest
(Neither of these are used in tandem.)

You forgot Poison Master, though.
It’s very strong and used alot

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

Hey Acandis,

It’s been a while my ticklish compatriot.

This actually became a concern to me shortly after I came back to the game and found out about the MetaBattle wiki.

I said I wanted to try out Ranger again.

So I created a level 1 Ranger.

According to that site: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Read_the_Wind_Power_Ranger

Survival of the Fittest power ranger requires both traits.

Am I going to spend 40 scrolls on my level 1 Ranger because I want to test that build?

I’m very reluctant.

I shouldn’t be feeling that way in sPvP.

(edited by Jasher.6580)

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Posted by: LeftyGamer.8096

LeftyGamer.8096

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

Survival Ranger needs XIII traits x 2 (which are 40 skill points and 4-6g, I believe)

yea but survival ranger sucks at anything over a 1v1, its not a meta build

Panthera
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Posted by: Terrorsquad.2349

Terrorsquad.2349

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

Survival Ranger needs XIII traits x 2 (which are 40 skill points and 4-6g, I believe)

yea but survival ranger sucks at anything over a 1v1, its not a meta build

It “quite” is in EU though

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

I don’t understand what you’re talking about, the vast majority of PvP meta builds don’t require any unlocks.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Rune of the Traveller and the Path of Corruption necro trait that require unlocks, neither of which are that common in the meta.

Survival Ranger needs XIII traits x 2 (which are 40 skill points and 4-6g, I believe)

yea but survival ranger sucks at anything over a 1v1, its not a meta build

What is the meta Ranger meta build then? Does it involve spending 10 or more scrolls and or gold?

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Posted by: Slininstien.7546

Slininstien.7546

-snip-

Hey Acandis,

It’s been a while my ticklish compatriot.

This actually became a concern to me shortly after I came back to the game and found out about the MetaBattle wiki.

I said I wanted to try out Ranger again.

So I created a level 1 Ranger.

According to that site: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Read_the_Wind_Power_Ranger

Survival of the Fittest power ranger requires both traits.

Am I going to spend 40 scrolls on my level 1 Ranger because I want to test that build?

I’m very reluctant.

I shouldn’t be feeling that way in sPvP.

The build you’re using on that page would not be very useful for the point of a power ranger. If a power ranger wanted to be able to take alot of damage and deal alot of damage it would probably run celestial as that’s what it’s built to do. But 6/5/3/0/0 or 6/6/2/0/0 or even 6/4/4/0/0 I would check those out, 1 skill required to learn and you get a TON of tomes from tracks.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

I’ve been playing pretty consistently for a few days now, I have 11 scrolls and 5 tomes. Do I want to use those on a level 1 alt just to test if I MAY enjoy the build in question?

Note. This accumulation is after days of solo queuing.

I shouldn’t feel apprehensive when thinking of testing viable builds. Nevertheless I do. Was that what they want with sPvP?

Depending on class you may or may not be at a disadvantage due to unavailability of specific traits, runes, sigils or heals.

Let’s say I spent my traits and I end up hating Ranger… and I say… you know what? … let me try that Mesmer build to see if I like it.

Do I have to farm yet again to unlock that heal that all the Mesmers are running?

I don’t like it.

(edited by Jasher.6580)

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Posted by: bubby.5798

bubby.5798

Jasher, I agree with you 100%. sPvP is not 100% equal because everything isn’t unlocked yet and I think Arena Net should take a look at this, as the original intention is for everyone in sPvP to be equal no matter how much time they put into the game.

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

If you want to try out meta builds how about start with the ones that don’t require unlocks, and in trying those out you will earn tomes/scrolls/level ups and gold, allowing you to unlock things if you need to for other builds.

It is a silly design and doesn’t make sense, I agree, but it’s not a complicated or difficult thing to get around.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

If you want to try out meta builds how about start with the ones that don’t require unlocks, and in trying those out you will earn tomes/scrolls/level ups and gold, allowing you to unlock things if you need to for other builds.

It is a silly design and doesn’t make sense, I agree, but it’s not a complicated or difficult thing to get around.

So if I want to try out a Ranger I should play a Warrior for a couple days and earn enough scrolls?

Investing a sizeable amount of time with something I don’t particularly enjoy just to test something out isn’t my definition of fun or sensible.

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

It’s true that the new ranger GM traits are extremely good. I bought four already, and ranger is one of my least played profession. However, it’s really, really cheap and fast to get these new GM traits with the reward tracks and the new daily system. Show your friend different alternatives to the new runes/traits. Or just help them out: I gave 5g to a friend of mine so he could play traveler’s runes on his mesmer.

That being said, I wouldn’t be sad to see this pay gate disappear. I don’t really understand the point of it.

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

I understand everyone’s logic on what Anet said in the beginning. Yes, this is true on having to pay some gold and scrolls to obtain some of the meta builds. BUT, if you are just wanting to test the class to see if you like it, traiting 2 or 1 trait differently will not obtain a different result. Yes, you will not be completely optimal, but you will still get the feel for the class and be able to decide if you want to go all in. Here is the thing, with those 1 or 2 traits will not make a difference for a new player to the class because they have no idea what they are doing with it anyway. Those traits are not going to magically make them on par with everyone skill level and decide whether they want to continue the class or not.

Once you get used to the class you can EASILY decide whether you like it or not. You can then say, wow I really like this class and those traits will also help out too. I will now purchase them and stick with it. A new player entering the game and trying out the class is going to play horribly with or without those traits. Before he would become half way decent with his class he would have enough to buy them if he wanted to stick with it.

It goes against what they said, but it doesn’t make the argument true that a new player to the game can’t jump right in a decide if he likes a class due to no access of a trait or 2. For a new player, playing the full on meta build won’t make a difference (2 trait wise).

EDIT: In fact, I have gave this exact advice to a few new players I have been helping the past couple weeks. I said “Try this build” and gave them the link. Told them not to purchase the traits until they were sure they liked the class. After about a week they decided to stick with the class and went ahead and purchased the traits. I can assure you his game play did not improve the very next match we played. He is still new and for that we pay for with our lives lol. To say that you need those traits to figure out whether you like the class or not, is ridiculous.

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(edited by GhOst.4019)

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

The only thing I can think of is…

You seem to have interesting cousins.

Btw, you forgot about Je..Chewbacca.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

I disagree with you on almost all your points.

One trait alone can and will make a world of a difference. One trait can make or break an entire spec and playstyle.

Being able to cleanse conditions with survival skills for example. It changes your game completely.

Also… the idea of biding my time for a week so I can purchase something and test a spec is stupid.

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Posted by: bubby.5798

bubby.5798

I disagree with Ghost as well. Traits do make a difference, and without having them while others do gives you an unfair disadvantage. Guild Wars 2 PvP was built on a system which revolved around skill and got rid of the pay to win aspect. Purchasing traits to have a better build, although might seem miniscule, is still advantageous.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

good thing i have 12 80 toons (including all classes) and dont have this issue. good thing these traits are a 1 time purchase and respeccing in pvp is entirely free. otherwise i might break my monitor recreating toon after toon at level 1 and wasting tomes and scrolls on them constantly.

i would even sympathize, but hey.. if youre good, you can always go place in a go4gw2 and get some gems for toon slots so you dont have to delete toons every time. or something. its not like gems are that hard to get. and an extra toon slot is a better investment for your gold than buying a trait 20×. git rich sun!

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

You seem to have interesting cousins.

What’s crazy is that those are their real names.

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

You misread everything I posted…. Yes those traits are needed to be optimal. NO, they are not needed to see whether you like a class or not. The whole argument of the OP is really invalid anyway. Your argument is that players can’t just join up and be on equal footing with everyone else, when in reality no matter what, they will not be on equal footing. They will not have the knowledge and skill level of even someone that has been doing it for even a couple weeks. Those 2 traits are not going to put them on par with that. I am not defending Anet, but the way you say it is that if they have those traits they are automatically even with everyone else; which isn’t true. Anyone that has played with a new player can attest to my statement that a couple traits makes no difference to that player whatsoever. They are still going to be bad. A huge part of the game is positioning. If he goes into fights out of position and dies in 10 seconds all the time, traits don’t matter much. He might as well have been playing with no traits at all; because it wouldn’t have made a difference.

The whole argument is on new players, because people that have been playing for a while have TONS of skill points to spare and it doesn’t matter at that point; invalidating the argument. You will get the money spent back in like half a reward track completion too, so that is not relevant. I understand that everyone would just like it handed to them for free, but Anet has got to make their money. There is no other guaranteed way Anet can pull money from PvPers since all you need to do is buy low level gray’s. Yes people still buy skins etc etc, but that isn’t guaranteed.

As you so nicely twisted my words, YES the traits are needed to test builds. Your original post said new players coming in. New players don’t test builds, they test classes. Non new players test builds and can easily afford to purchase the traits. As I stated before, to test the class, it is not needed. Builds, it is.

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Posted by: arron.7348

arron.7348

Here is the thing, with those 1 or 2 traits will not make a difference

longbow ranger, which the OP seems to be specifying a lot, cannot work without read the wind. it is a required trait, else your targets can literally walk to the left or right and dodg your arrows

so no, your assumption that these traits don’t matter is utterly ignorant

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Posted by: Mak.2657

Mak.2657

I’m not sure that anet made these traits gold worthy to pull gamers money because you need skillpoints anyway. As new player u can’t buy skill point through gemshop anyway. I.e new player forced to grind. Mb there other motives for this, but now I prefer it be removed from pvp.

(edited by Mak.2657)

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

Here is the thing, with those 1 or 2 traits will not make a difference

longbow ranger, which the OP seems to be specifying a lot, cannot work without read the wind. it is a required trait, else your targets can literally walk to the left or right and dodg your arrows

so no, your assumption that these traits don’t matter is utterly ignorant

You pull a half of a sentence completely out of context and then call me ignorant? Lol. Let me talk slowly so you can read what I said. Those. two. traits. make. no. difference. for. someone. that. just. started. playing. the. game. and. is. JUST. trying. to. see. if. they. like. the. class. Why?! Because. they. can. use. OTHER. traits. or. builds. to. see. if. they. like. the. class. FOR. SOMEONE. that. IS. NOT. new. and. wants. to. try. a. new. build. the. traits. ARE. important. To try out a class, NO. To try out a build, YES. Learn 2 kittening read. Git fkt

Infraction accepted.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

Skill-wise they will not be equal (but which two players are truly “equal”). MECHANICALLY however, they would be equal which is the crux of the matter.

I can’t play a Spirit Ranger or a Beastmaster ranger to see if I will like the playstyle of a Longbow Power Ranger.

That wont work.

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

-snip-

Skill-wise they will not be equal (but which two players are truly “equal”). MECHANICALLY however, they would be equal which is the crux of the matter.

I can’t play a Spirit Ranger or a Beastmaster ranger to see if I will like the playstyle of a Longbow Power Ranger.

That wont work.

Ya, but again. You are talking about builds. For someone trying the builds out (not a new player), Yes the traits are important. VERY important… But that player should have plenty of SP’s to use and it not really matter. Everyone just wants freebies.

I was talking about class in general for NEW players. Not yourself, but NEW players. Have you ever teamed up with a new player? Do you not remember when you are new? They switch their traits, utilities every couple games. Why do they do this? Because they want to try everything and see how it works no matter how hard you try to tell them it is useless. They want to get the overall feel for the class. That’s all they want. Those 2 traits are not going to be the deciding factor for a new player on whether or not they choose a class. I straight had a new player (Thief) tell me he was only going to use his main weapons (which he kept switching out every other game) because he doesn’t like the short bow….. No matter how many times I tried to explain it to him. I can’t tell you how many times I heard “Wow this trait (or utility) sounds cool, I am going to try it”…. Nothing I said mattered. He just wanted to try things out and see if he likes the class. Try to push an optimal full on build on a brand new player and see how that works out. 80% of the time they will tell you " That sounds cool but I wanna try this to see if I like it". They will do whatever they want as being new..

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(edited by GhOst.4019)

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

Two things. 1. I wasn’t like that as a new player. 2. I’m not sure if most people are like that as new players either… that argument is anecdotal. You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

On another note, you confirmed that it is in fact important for a player testing builds to have these traits… you then went on to say that they SHOULD have plenty of skill points where it shouldn’t ever matter.

I don’t… and I’m not sure if I’m the only one playing the game with this dilemma.

I’ve been playing for a little while now and I still do not have 20 scrolls and tomes combined. That is with over a week of specifically farming these scrolls.

When I do acquire them however… will I feel inclined to spend these precious points just so I can test a build?

Should I spend over a week farming something with builds I’m not really interested in, just so I can test a build I may POSSIBLY be interested in?

That’s arduous and stupid.

(edited by Jasher.6580)

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

Uhhhh…you were not like that when you were new? Ok, so you started at beta, ya you did exactly what I said. There were not optimal builds at game launch and therefore you chose your own kitten, however you wanted to and if it didn’t work out you changed it and tweaked it. So ya, you chose random kitten just like everyone else at game launch (like I said New players do). A new player is in a completely different boat on a completely different level.

You are referencing a week. What is this week referring to? You said you have been playing since beta and you have no skill points? Even in PvE you are rewarded scrolls all the time. I find it very hard to believe you have none and have been playing since beta.

Your original statement said you been here from beta. Your newest response is “I have been playing for a little bit and over the past week unable to obtain that many scrolls.”.

Either way I guess I am done in here. Fight for your free things. While you are at it, can you fight for 50% off BL items. Prices are too high. Or just free, we want everything free.

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(edited by GhOst.4019)

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

To clarify, I have been playing since beta. Yes I have accumulated a lot of scrolls, nevertheless, I just used them up immediately on my main since I didn’t have any desire to play a Ranger until recently (about a week ago).

Since then I started saving my scrolls and tomes.

Now I have this internal battle as to whether or not I should “waste” these consumables on my level 1 alt to test out this Ranger build I am somewhat interested in.

I still do not have enough scrolls and tomes since I started saving them.

Is everything clear now?

(edited by Jasher.6580)

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

Yep, Perfectly. I dunno, Never knew anyone that said" This is the only character I will ever make" and blow all SP’s. I guess they are out there. Anyway, if you want, you can always unlock those traits for free, if you enjoy PvE anyway lol. All traits are unlockable through PvE content. (PvE is not recommended as it is boring as hell)

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

Fight for your free things. While you are at it, can you fight for 50% off BL items. Prices are too high. Or just free, we want everything free.

So wait… you think it’s okay for everyone to have access to the meta Thief, Warrior, Elementalist and Engineer builds without spending anything yet you are forced to unlock traits to play the most effective Mesmer, Ranger etc. builds?

sPvP was SUPPOSED to be about competition on an even footing. It’s even in the wiki.

Having things gated and taking hours/days/weeks to potentially unlock traits, heals, sigils, runes… depending on how much time you available for gaming is kinda jacked up in my honest opinion.

It’s as Five Gauge said earlier in the thread: “However it’s the philosophy that he’s right about. What if actual meta traits become gated?”

For most classes it’s not, but for Ranger it is. Mesmer need to unlock the heal, some classes need to unlock runes, etc…

Right now it goes something like this: “These are the best three Thief builds in the current meta, you can jump right in and play them for free.”

“These are the best three Ranger builds in the current meta, you need to spend a week farming scrolls/tomes and you need 20 gold to unlock them.”

Honestly though just by your tone, I think you’re just arguing to defend your point to the bitter end. You’re not at all interested in understanding the principle behind the OP.

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

It is even footing. No where did they say “It will be even, you will not have to purchase anything to be even”. When they say even footing, they mean you don’t have to be lvl 80 and have lvl 80 gear. 1st, there is no runes or sigils that are meta and need to be purchased. There is only a few skills/ traits you need to buy across ALL classes that are meta. Tomes of knowledge give you skill points too. I am sorry if I don’t feel bad. I have a new account that is only a week old and he already has 30g and around 80 SP’s…If I did /age it would be mere hours of total play because I barely logged in there the past week (Wouldn’t even hit 8 hours I don’t think).. Being a new player, is the only way this would even hurt your pocket. Most new players play more than a week on their first class still trying to figure it out…. By then they would have enough to do whatever they want with every other class.

I understand you want everything handed to you on a silver platter, but to say you have to put in a ton of work to get a couple traits, is not true.

Acandis said it well near the beginning. It is very easy to get what you would need. There is only a few things that would require it. Would it hurt to remove it? No. But it isn’t all that bad either…

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(edited by GhOst.4019)

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Posted by: RusShiro.9241

RusShiro.9241

this entire dialog is ridicules. Games time gate things, its like buying battlefield 3 and expecting to have all the weapons and attachments unlocked from the start. dont feal like playing the game to get the in game rewards, spend some money and get it other wise, play the game like everyone else. if you wanna play as a ranger, make a ranger, and “oh god” unlock the abilities.

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Posted by: Mak.2657

Mak.2657

Spvp initially intended to be free of farm/pay/unlock. Just come in and start play. This is a way I like.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

Poor example. The game was intended for everyone to be equal. No advantages. That is what was advertised (and is still advertised).

During beta and at launch everything was free. Then they snuck in those heals you had to pay for. Nobody cared except Mesmers who had to pay for an optimal heal. (all the other heals were crappy)

Now they have these traits. Most classes wont care since all their optimal builds are free.

It isn’t equal across the board. Right now, only a few classes actually have to pay for stuff to unlock their optimal builds.

I can create a level 1 Thief/Warrior/Ele/Engineer right now and play a meta build off the bat.

I can’t do the same for Mesmer, Ranger and a few other classes.

Your example is invalid.

(edited by Jasher.6580)

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Posted by: RusShiro.9241

RusShiro.9241

i love you fella…. here is the thing, can you give me one game…that is right ONE game that does not require a person to play it to unlock abilities or items.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

i love you fella…. here is the thing, can you give me one game…that is right ONE game that does not require a person to play it to unlock abilities or items.

I’ll do you one better. How about I list some specs in this game right now that doesn’t need unlocks to play optimally at the highest level:

Elementalist – Dagger/Dagger
Engineer – Celestial Rifle
Guardian – Meditation Hammer
Thief – Dagger/Pistol
Warrior – Shoutbow
Guardian – Altruistic Healing Bunker
Guardian – Meditation DPS Variant
Guardian – Virtue Bunker
Necromancer – Traditional Terrormancer
Thief – Sword/Dagger
Warrior – Axe/Wh Longbow
Warrior – Axebow
Warrior – Hambow

I digress… hint… there are more.
-
You can’t keep saying, “Hey every game does it!!!1one!”

Other games are built around having “unlocks” and they balance those games accordingly. There are too many discrepancies. This game was (and still is) marketed as spvp being EQUAL from inception.

Structured PvP is a Player versus Player mode which allows competition on an even footing.

That’s from the official wiki.

That’s like them implementing punching in the game Divekick and then when people get upset about it, some Mortal Kombat fan jumps up and says, “Name one fighting game where they didn’t have punches?”

It’s not a valid argument.

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Posted by: serenke.4806

serenke.4806

I get that the discussion is about the philosophy of the locked traits, and no offense but new players won’t need the meta builds right away.

Even if they get the meta builds, people who have thousands of matches under their belt will obliterate them just because they have a lot more experience.

Besides, you are talking about highest level… a person just buying the game won’t be competing at the highest level, not for some time.

Just a side note: your cousins should reconsider playing all survival ranger because that team comp might not work.

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Posted by: RusShiro.9241

RusShiro.9241

I actually thought this was a troll thread, I was mistaken.

I get what you are saying about having to spend in game currency on traits for an alt that you may not want to keep. The greater picture on the restrictions on the traits in pvp creates a feeling of progression if a player only plays pvp. This game is more than pvp, and the developers have an obligation to the community to encourage players to enjoy other aspects of the game. I have to do some fractals to get a “thing” to make a “thing” that i want to have. I dont really care for fractals or dungeons in general, but i will do them because that is what is required. I like the game, and I trust that ANET is doing and making the best choices they can make to deliver on a good experience.

I hope that at some point you will simply get yourself an extra slot or two so you can go alt crazy and make what ever toons you need for your purpose.

Please understand that the restriction is there to encourage players to keep playing, a carrot on a stick if you will.

All of this may change one day, but today, “it is what it is”. Good luck out there, and remember that the developers did this for a reason, and I agree with their choice. I understand why you don’t, and I don’t agree with your argument.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

-snip-

If they want “progression” in sPvP then they should balance it properly. They can’t “guess” if the new traits they make will be viable. So the best way for them to do it is to gate ALL grandmaster traits and have everyone unlock them.

Right now only a few classes need to unlock them to be viable in high level PvP. That’s not balanced or fair.

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Posted by: Puppet.8139

Puppet.8139

Well, The main class you have listed (Ranger) Isn’t viable at high level PvP no matter what.. So that part of your argument is invalid. Also, why are all your cousins trying to make rangers? That won’t work out well for you.

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Posted by: silvermember.8941

silvermember.8941

OP your statement about meta build being denied access is only true, if Meta builds was sanctioned by Arenanet. Meta builds are not. You can still find a build that works without spending gold and if you can’t then it sucks to be you.

As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki

This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

Wait you are talking about “high level PvP” and people who can’t afford skill points in the same point?

The amount of time spent debating on this thread could have probably earned you enough skill points to unlock the traits youre talking about.

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Posted by: Puppet.8139

Puppet.8139

The amount of time spent debating on this thread could have probably earned you enough skill points to unlock the traits youre talking about.

Exactly.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

I so I just bit the bullet and said I would spend my tombs on my level 1 Ranger to get my traits.

Apparently only the scrolls work to unlock skill points. I just wasted all my tomes. I am beyond kittened at myself.

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Posted by: Berry Pun Pup.6904

Berry Pun Pup.6904

I so I just bit the bullet and said I would spend my tombs on my level 1 Ranger to get my traits.

Apparently only the scrolls work to unlock skill points. I just wasted all my tomes. I am beyond kittened at myself.

Nah, if you use enough tomes you’ll get skill points at certain level threshholds.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

I so I just bit the bullet and said I would spend my tombs on my level 1 Ranger to get my traits.

Apparently only the scrolls work to unlock skill points. I just wasted all my tomes. I am beyond kittened at myself.

Nah, if you use enough tomes you’ll get skill points at certain level threshholds.

I’m still extremely kittened. Because I’ve been working my kitten off. I unlocked the turret trait for Engineer the other day with scrolls, now I used up all my tomes and the remaining scrolls and now I don’t have enough to unlock Ranger. This is after literally weeks of grinding.

All you kittenbags talking about how easy it is to accumulate these scrolls… this is not easy.

I have been grinding for weeks.

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Posted by: Berry Pun Pup.6904

Berry Pun Pup.6904

Play ranked/unranked they drop like candy lol, got hundreds sitting around.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

Play ranked/unranked they drop like candy lol, got hundreds sitting around.

That’s all I play.