Guild Wars 2

Hi Anet! I saw you decided to nerf chronobunker, a very good call, and I agree it had to be done!

Iam not very happy that u nerfed alcrity that hard u did, since it hurt other stuff too. But… I can live with it! I sure can! But core mesmer also needs some help!

Now to my point!

Mesmer sustained dps along other things is horrible! There sure are problem with many things of the core mesmer, traits , skills etc. And i will talk about some of it aswell. But now… My biggest issue here is the weapon dmg…

So I start summon things up for you, that I think needs to be looked at!

Staff:
Winds of chaos – dmg is horrible. Why cant you make it work simular to the druid staff or something!? I mean, really guys!? This isnt fair…

What I would want here is for it to be channeled, and hit harder depending on range.. I would prefer the beam having an little darker colour, like black or something cool!

I think it should apply 2 stacks of confusion, 2 stack of bleeding and 2 stack of vulnerability on hit! And duration should be set to 8 sec.

Phantasmal warlock: This Phantasmal should cast 5 fast moving dark bolts, that each apply 1,5 sec burning! cd should be set to 15 sec.

Phase retreat: Is fine

Chaos armor: Now u nerfed its blind, and it would only be fair to decrease cd to 25 sec!

Chaos storm: Is fine

Scepter: I dont know if those changes you plan to introduce for the scepter in upcoming patch would be enough, its to soon to tell!

but If that 5% buff to attack speed is it, then I have some proposal for that aswell, because that wont be enough!

Confusing images: Should have its direct dmg increased by 25%, and cd reduced to 10 sec.

Illusionary counter: Should apply those 5 stacks of torment once u press that skill, and then block all attacks for the full duration of the channel! If cd needs to be increased for this change to take place, then please do so! But it does need a change in how it works…

Ether bolt: Just as worthless as “Winds of chaos” on the staff weapon… I really hate this skill, and the dmg and torment duration is laughable…

Make it shoot out 3 dark (black color obviously) fast moving spikes/arrows/orbs or something, that hit for a reasonable amount of dmg!

Torch: This off hand I generally think is fine, but still some changes could be done to it…

The prestige: Make it apply 6 sec of burning, and 6 sec of blind! Also increase direct dmg that it do! Reduce cd to 25 sec!

Phantasmal mage: cd reduced to 10 sec. Fury duration increased to 10 sec. Burning duration increased to 10 sec… Buff direct dmg slightly…

Great sword: This is mostly fine aswell, but could need a quality of life improvements…

Illusionary wave: Should knock back enemies around you, rather then in front of you… cd reduced to 25 sec

Phantasmal berserker: cd reduced by 5 sec.

Mind stab: dmg inceased by 15%, and removes 2 boons on hit instead of 1!

Mirror blade: Give 5 stacks of might instead of 3. Duration of vulnerability increased to 8 sec.

Spatial surge: dmg increased by 15%.

Sword (main hand). I hate this one!

Mind slash increased dmg by 25%. Mind gash increased dmg by 25%. Mind spike that extra buff to dmg, should be there even if enemy have a boon! Remove that spike dmg on boon requirement!

Blurred frenzy: Shouldnt root you, when used! Should be able to use it while moving!

Illusionary leap: Now counts as a phantasm.

Skills:

Signet of inspiration: cd reduced to 20 sec. The amount of random boons u get, is now reduced to 4.

The random boons u will get is now fury (duration incrased to 10 sec), regen (duration increased to 10 sec), might (duration unchanged) and vigor (duration increased to 10 sec). Swiftness duration is now increased to 10 sec!

Signet of domination: Condition dmg increased to 250! cd reduced to 30 sec.

Signet of midnight: Condition duration bonus increased to 33%.

Signet of illusions: buff illusion health bonus to 100%. cd reduced to 45 sec.

Signet of ether: Passive heal with no illusions increased by 40%. Passive heal with 1 illusion increased by 20%. Passive heal with 2 illusion increased by 20%. Passive heal with 3 illusions increased by 33%.

Mirror images: cd reduced to 25 sec.

Mass invisibility: cast time reduced to 0,5 sec, duration increased to 8 sec. Its an elite lol, and it has huge cd, long cast time and still only give 5 sec stealth… Thats poor!

Signet of humility: Reworked! Now when active gives you 10 sec protection, 10 sec regen, 10 sec fury and 10 sec vigor! Moa bird completly removed!!!

Iam sure fellow mesmer and others wont agree with, some or all, of the things I propose here.

And iam sure some mesmers also think some traits needs to be buffed aswell. But this is what I got so far, that would improve things a bit…

I hope I got all things right here.

<3

Looking from the outside, the Mesmer have a really good dps.
A good shatter can inflict insane damage, really insane.
Is it easy to play? no. That’s why everyone use a easy build like the chronobunker.

If you want dps you still have, expecially in spvp. Really good burst damage skills with shatter, expecially if you can do it twyce with chrono and spam quickness.

Silv.9207:

Looking from the outside, the Mesmer have a really good dps.
A good shatter can inflict insane damage, really insane.
Is it easy to play? no. That’s why everyone use a easy build like the chronobunker.

If you want dps you still have, expecially in spvp. Really good burst damage skills with shatter, expecially if you can do it twyce with chrono and spam quickness.

Remember there’s a difference between Damage Per Second and Burst Damage.
Does Mesmer have good burst? Yes, however, in this meta it’s pretty much useless with all the bunkers.
On the other hand, Mesmer has absolutely horrid sustained DPS. It’s completely reliant on phantasms that are cleaved in one to two hits, has one of the weakest AA’s in the game, relies on passive fire and air procs for most of its damage, and alacrity actually brought it somewhat up to par from a damage perspective especially in PvE where it allows additional Quickness and phantasm uptime. Alacrity though is getting a 50% percent nerf instead of a 10-20% balancing nerf so we have no idea the affect it will have.

Did bunker Mesmer need a nerf? Yeah, aspects of the build were strong but I you think about it with the buffs Necro is getting you have a natural bunker Mesmer counter there. No need to take the nerf bat to the Mesmer class, just balance one build. Oh well.

In a prolonged fight against a mesmer I’ve always worried about
1. Them bluring and evading all my attacks
2. Their shatter skills or GS burst

Never once have I been concerned about the pressure their damage is putting on me.

Silhouette.5631:

In a prolonged fight against a mesmer I’ve always worried about
1. Them bluring and evading all my attacks
2. Their shatter skills or GS burst

Never once have I been concerned about the pressure their damage is putting on me.

Generally you wont ever have to unless you come across one of the fringe players using a pure phantasm build or a PU condi mesmer(since really that play style is about trolling)
All other builds rely heavily on burst damage which can be mitigated by invulns, dodging, aegis, and simply playing smart.

Whats that? You can counter another player by playing good? Le Gasp
Sarcasm aside, Aegis aint gona block most spike dps in the game that are multi hit. Also the fact that you talked about it so nonchalantly right there tells us that yeah mesmers probably need an increase to overall dps. Nobodys class should be countered by “Simply playing smart” when the person working the toon is setting up combos as fast as that little hamster in their brain can run

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

aegis would block half of a mirror blade spike, along with telling you to dogde. Yeah Aegis can save you kitten. Will it stop a 3 clone plus self shatter mind wrack? Nah you are right there, but considering most GS Mesmers tend to do the same thing over and over you would eventually(not saying you just the whiners in general) figure out how they open and pull off their combinations.

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Are you suggesting Thieves are about to be overcompensated?

Jace al Thor.6745:

aegis would block half of a mirror blade spike, along with telling you to dogde. Yeah Aegis can save you kitten. Will it stop a 3 clone plus self shatter mind wrack? Nah you are right there, but considering most GS Mesmers tend to do the same thing over and over you would eventually(not saying you just the whiners in general) figure out how they open and pull off their combinations.

Mirror Blade is unblockable.

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Hmmm yes and no. They still are maintaining some bunker amulets and adding others so it’s still a good chance that it’ll be the same problem. If it’s not, then another problem arises. Thieves hard counter shatter Mesmer, have for years so we’ll be back to where were before with only 2-3 people playing Mesmer on top tier play instead of having multiple. So there’s the problem we have. Mesmers run bunker and be able to compete against everything or run shatter once the patch hits and gets pushed out of the meta. That’s my opinion mind you and like kittenholes everyone has one.

As for balance, a test server would go a long ways for them. Or splitting balance between PvP/PvE. On the other hand, as it stands that won’t happen so ideally they would the weak stuff first to bring everything up to par and if something was still OP at that point bring it down to par with everything else. No knee jerk, haphazard balancing.

Mikkel.8427:

Jace al Thor.6745:

aegis would block half of a mirror blade spike, along with telling you to dogde. Yeah Aegis can save you kitten. Will it stop a 3 clone plus self shatter mind wrack? Nah you are right there, but considering most GS Mesmers tend to do the same thing over and over you would eventually(not saying you just the whiners in general) figure out how they open and pull off their combinations.

Mirror Blade is unblockable.

Oh yeah that’s right… Oops. Hardly use GS XD

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

I suggest you go and play mesmer with staff, and also while doing so test one hand sword (main hand), and also test scepter.. Then come back and tell how good dps are, and that its fine! You can even go full glass build for max dps while doing so, and I can still tell u it SUCKS!!!

It doesnt matter if bunkers got removed all together, mesmer dps would still have lots of problem. Staff would still do horrible dmg, scepter would still do horrible dmg and one hand sword would still be very clunky to use while beeing non rewarding for going into mele…

Also there is a difference between sustained and burst… In shatter mesm you will have some burst windows, if u dont manage to drop ur opponent then and there, ur screwed! Also u are in full glass to be able to burst like other classes can, while they atleast are still able to take some hits… Also take that spec to a group fight, and we see were you land… lol… Beeing able to 1vs1 is a whole different thing…

People talk about mesmer like they run around with perma evade, blurr and amazing survivability… Go look at those skills granting that, then also look at them cds… And also inc nerfs hit some of that quite hard…

Also mesmer class is not = Chronobunk

People allways act like mesmer and chronobunk is that same, iam sorry but Chronobunk is a spec, and its broken, and now it get nerfed hard!

Core mesmer had problem outside of that chronobunk all the time!

Mesmers are tired of people that either dont main it, or people that play other classes telling mesmers that their dps is “fine”. Its not!

Jackums.3496:

Silv.9207:

Looking from the outside, the Mesmer have a really good dps.
A good shatter can inflict insane damage, really insane.
Is it easy to play? no. That’s why everyone use a easy build like the chronobunker.

If you want dps you still have, expecially in spvp. Really good burst damage skills with shatter, expecially if you can do it twyce with chrono and spam quickness.

Burst =! DPS

Burst is DPS…

Not necessarily.
DPS-Damage Per Second. So this is going to be your sustainable damage over time(per sec)
Burst- High spike damage. This is often landed with 10+ seconds in between each burst.

Realistically I suppose we should say sustained vs burst but whatever. Mesmer has horrible sustainable damage. Like I can AA you all day and you’d probably out heal it by hardly trying.

Mikkel.8427:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Are you suggesting Thieves are about to be overcompensated?

Probably they are

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

I suggest you go and play mesmer with staff, and also while doing so test one hand sword (main hand), and also test scepter.. Then come back and tell how good dps are, and that its fine! You can even go full glass build for max dps while doing so, and I can still tell u it SUCKS!!!

It doesnt matter if bunkers got removed all together, mesmer dps would still have lots of problem. Staff would still do horrible dmg, scepter would still do horrible dmg and one hand sword would still be very clunky to use while beeing non rewarding for going into mele…

Also there is a difference between sustained and burst… In shatter mesm you will have some burst windows, if u dont manage to drop ur opponent then and there, ur screwed! Also u are in full glass to be able to burst like other classes can, while they atleast are still able to take some hits… Also take that spec to a group fight, and we see were you land… lol… Beeing able to 1vs1 is a whole different thing…

People talk about mesmer like they run around with perma evade, blurr and amazing survivability… Go look at those skills granting that, then also look at them cds… And also inc nerfs hit some of that quite hard…

Also mesmer class is not = Chronobunk

People allways act like mesmer and chronobunk is that same, iam sorry but Chronobunk is a spec, and its broken, and now it get nerfed hard!

Core mesmer had problem outside of that chronobunk all the time!

Mesmers are tired of people that either dont main it, or people that play other classes telling mesmers that their dps is “fine”. Its not!

Dude, you were the guy that was calling gunflame warrior OP because their burst is too high

Btw, mesmer is my main

Not every class needs to have amazing sustained dps, mesmer gives a lot of utility to make up for its lack of dps, and is also one of the highest burst damage classes. Buffing mesmer damage is extremely dangerous as they can already instant burst down glassy builds, imagine that killshot warrior with a bunch of invulnerability, stealth, and teleporting, kitten gets broken quickly

Mesmer is currently locked into playing full burst or full bunker because of their low sustained damage. Basically either you can kill the enemy instantly (full burst) or you don’t and then your sustained damage won’t be enough to kill him/her ever.

Increasing the damage on weapon skills, especially on the AA, but also a few others (chaos storm isn’t that scary for its cooldown) would help create more bruiser-y archetypes. To compensate for this increase, the shatter burst can be shaved a little. In particular, the scaling of F1 with the number of illusions could be improved since with IP baseline, the damage with 2 or 3 illusions is almost identical: keep the current 3-illusion damage but reduce the 2-illusion damage by 5-10%.

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

Mikkel.8427:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Are you suggesting Thieves are about to be overcompensated?

AA is going to be improved, but about acrobatic tree…
… what tree should a thief remove to use acrobatic?

I think DA, T, DD are a must ( unless a new S/D build will come up, but still not sure to trade any of em for acrobatic ).

Kayberz.5346:

Dude, you were the guy that was calling gunflame warrior OP because their burst is too high

Btw, mesmer is my main

Not every class needs to have amazing sustained dps, mesmer gives a lot of utility to make up for its lack of dps, and is also one of the highest burst damage classes. Buffing mesmer damage is extremely dangerous as they can already instant burst down glassy builds, imagine that killshot warrior with a bunch of invulnerability, stealth, and teleporting, kitten gets broken quickly

^^^
This +1

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

I don’t think anyone is really complaining about Mesmer burst. And they probably won’t be stunning locking because A) a good portion will leave to go back to whatever the new fotm build is(not a Mesmer build), those that main it hardcore will go back to shatter and be ate alive by the same thieves that kept all but a small handful of players with teams built around them out of the meta, C) those that play casually for fun will do what they like stay stuck in Amber-Sapphire and probably not progress much higher.

The same could be said about a thief though. Would you want your class to only be limited to a veil bot in WvW, boon bot in PvE, and bunker in the current meta with the potential of not being in the meta at all next week?
And thief has had a better track record until recently of staying in the meta because they keep zerker builds out and have high mobility. Mesmer? Not so much because they get pushed out.
A sustained dps buff would offer other build variety than just shatter. But so would cleave/AoE reduction on illusions(my choice), making non-stealth condi build viable in higher tier play, etc

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

I don’t think anyone is really complaining about Mesmer burst. And they probably won’t be stunning locking because A) a good portion will leave to go back to whatever the new fotm build is(not a Mesmer build), those that main it hardcore will go back to shatter and be ate alive by the same thieves that kept all but a small handful of players with teams built around them out of the meta, C) those that play casually for fun will do what they like stay stuck in Amber-Sapphire and probably not progress much higher.

The same could be said about a thief though. Would you want your class to only be limited to a veil bot in WvW, boon bot in PvE, and bunker in the current meta with the potential of not being in the meta at all next week?
And thief has had a better track record until recently of staying in the meta because they keep zerker builds out and have high mobility. Mesmer? Not so much because they get pushed out.
A sustained dps buff would offer other build variety than just shatter. But so would cleave/AoE reduction on illusions(my choice), making non-stealth condi build viable in higher tier play, etc

1. thief is not wanted in wvw, at all right now
2. not wanted in pve, at all right now
3. not wanted in pvp at all right now
4. thief had same + 1 role since begin of time and was nerfed pretty much every single patch because they sometimes did more than 1+
5. i have been verbally harassed almost every single match since HoT went live simply for playing the class (and anet didn’t bann any of the players i reported)

Have you seen me begging for sustain anywhere? Frankly i am even puzzled why anet increased thief AA dmg. Thieves need more reliable ways to land their burst and maybe live bit longer in aoe/cc spam but they definitely do not that much more dmg.

Mesmers and thieves always filled similar roles, mesmer is assassin, giving them sustain would make they too good. Look at bunker mes, they are one of the main reasons why this meta is so unenjoyable.

Mes dps does suck. A good test of dps is how long does each class take to destroy a treb in Kyhlo, solo a creature in Forest of Niflhel, or the lord and his guards in Foefire. My observation is it usually takes Mes significantly longer compared to the other classes.

And the fact that you’ve been verbally harassed shows not how bad thief is but how poor the community is.
Does thief need work? Yes. But the same can be said of all classes not just one or two.
Mesmer is only wanted right now for alacrity and quickness uptime. Prior to hot you saw them being phased out for guardians as they could provide both reflects and quickness along with sustained dps(which Mesmer still lacks)
Pretty much the only classes wanted in WvW are ele, necro, and guardian. Mesmer provides blob stealth on a long CD so yeah not that great. And roaming-small group isn’t much better as you mostly see condi Mesmer. (Not that thief has a much better role in the same catagory)
As for having the same role. Well you’ve had a role. Since the beginning of time.
I’m not saying bunker Mesmer was weak, it did need some adjustments, but it wax a different build for once other than shatter. And for once Mesmer was top dog but that can’t be allowed to happen. So we are going back to basically shatter again.

And I’m not begging for anything. If I were it would be for Anet to actually play, at a high level, all classes and elements of their game so that they could make smart judgments in their balancing. As it stands, you have devs that openly hate certain classes and have done so on live streams, you get little to no Dev interaction on the class subforums, and that’s only a smaller problem of the bigger issue.
But I digress, I only want the best for my main. Would a dps be nice? Yes. However, it would go further if they implement AoE/cleave protection on illusions rather than a straight dps buff.

If you want buffed dps, you need to give up on burst a bit. Something to keep in mind

I totally agree and have thought the same thing, the GS auto at the very least needs it’s aftercast removed, I’d even argue for shatter mes to get the thief treatment and have sword auto dmg buffed as well.

Kevin.4209:

I totally agree and have thought the same thing, the GS auto at the very least needs it’s aftercast removed, I’d even argue for shatter mes to get the thief treatment and have sword auto dmg buffed as well.

If mes GS dmg gets increase then the range on it should be reduced to melee. Same treatment!

Cynz.9437:

Kevin.4209:

I totally agree and have thought the same thing, the GS auto at the very least needs it’s aftercast removed, I’d even argue for shatter mes to get the thief treatment and have sword auto dmg buffed as well.

If mes GS dmg gets increase then the range on it should be reduced to melee. Same treatment!

I’m a thief main btw but enjoy playing Mesmer occasionally.
GS damage is even laughable compared to thief shortbow. Shatter has pathetic sustained dps for being glass, and removing the aftercast wouldn’t even be a huge buff.

Kayberz.5346:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

I suggest you go and play mesmer with staff, and also while doing so test one hand sword (main hand), and also test scepter.. Then come back and tell how good dps are, and that its fine! You can even go full glass build for max dps while doing so, and I can still tell u it SUCKS!!!

It doesnt matter if bunkers got removed all together, mesmer dps would still have lots of problem. Staff would still do horrible dmg, scepter would still do horrible dmg and one hand sword would still be very clunky to use while beeing non rewarding for going into mele…

Also there is a difference between sustained and burst… In shatter mesm you will have some burst windows, if u dont manage to drop ur opponent then and there, ur screwed! Also u are in full glass to be able to burst like other classes can, while they atleast are still able to take some hits… Also take that spec to a group fight, and we see were you land… lol… Beeing able to 1vs1 is a whole different thing…

People talk about mesmer like they run around with perma evade, blurr and amazing survivability… Go look at those skills granting that, then also look at them cds… And also inc nerfs hit some of that quite hard…

Also mesmer class is not = Chronobunk

People allways act like mesmer and chronobunk is that same, iam sorry but Chronobunk is a spec, and its broken, and now it get nerfed hard!

Core mesmer had problem outside of that chronobunk all the time!

Mesmers are tired of people that either dont main it, or people that play other classes telling mesmers that their dps is “fine”. Its not!

Dude, you were the guy that was calling gunflame warrior OP because their burst is too high

Btw, mesmer is my main

Not every class needs to have amazing sustained dps, mesmer gives a lot of utility to make up for its lack of dps, and is also one of the highest burst damage classes. Buffing mesmer damage is extremely dangerous as they can already instant burst down glassy builds, imagine that killshot warrior with a bunch of invulnerability, stealth, and teleporting, kitten gets broken quickly

Not at all! I said that gunflame hitting for 19k was a bit over the top, and I stand by that statement!

But this thread isnt about warrior, so I suggest you stay on topic!

They can lower the burst then, because i rather take some sustained over a 10 sec burst window, while hit like a noodle after…

It isnt reasonable ever that staff skill 1 hit for 300-500 max on a target in PvP, while that bolt at the same time is slow as hell… I dont care if staff got some defensive skills, I rather have them remove all of it for some great dmg there!

I dont agree with how you look at things but I guess we just got different opinions on how we want mesmer class to work!

i agree with cynz too ( and kevin too ).

GS damage actually is low, but we don’t need more ranged kittenin dps like DH, so both:

-Revert GS AA skill ( the more close, the more damage mesmer deal )
-Incrase a bit GS AA ( but remember, mesmer can use all skills he wants, but thief is linked to initiative. they said the want thieves to use more initiative for defensive skills… that’s why they are gonna to improve only AA damage instead giving thieves sustain or more heals ).

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

DPS=/=Burst

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

buff dps? only if you also nerf the burst

azyume.6321:

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

The problem with condi Mesmer is that it only really applies 2 damaging conditions. Both of which happen to punish lack of condi clear and poor condition management. But neither are as strong as Burn so yeah. And if it’s a Chrono condi then it probably doesn’t have any condi clear itself other than torch so it’s weak against condi. If it’s not Chrono and has chaos/insp/x then it’s slow as Christmas just runaway.
So unless you just… Can’t notice 12 stacks of confusion and however many of torment to know when to cleanse… It’s not that hard to win that fight. If they can’t kill you you still win. Also, with the lack of clone death traits condi Mesmer has be actually be active in its attack else why bother attacking. It’s not the same as it was 1 year ago. And again, 1v1 isn’t a supported game mode which is really the only setting this shines.

The PB/GS was fine. Why? Because the traits themselves hadn’t changed in their coefficients. Anet just power creeped on everything. Adjusting the power creep would have fixed that.
Mantra Mesmer was worse, but a change of pace in buil variety, and most used Staff in it. And PB wasn’t even the problem. Confounding Suggestions was and it never got nerfed.

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

DPS=/=Burst

Did you even read what i wrote?

Cynz.9437:

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

DPS=/=Burst

Did you even read what i wrote?

In the particular post i adressed to you wrote that mesmer burst is more than fine as a reply to an OT about mesmer dps/sustained damage.

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

DPS=/=Burst

Did you even read what i wrote?

In the particular post i adressed to you wrote that mesmer burst is more than fine as a reply to an OT about mesmer dps/sustained damage.

Once again did you even read what i wrote?

Jace al Thor.6745:

azyume.6321:

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

The problem with condi Mesmer is that it only really applies 2 damaging conditions. Both of which happen to punish lack of condi clear and poor condition management. But neither are as strong as Burn so yeah. And if it’s a Chrono condi then it probably doesn’t have any condi clear itself other than torch so it’s weak against condi. If it’s not Chrono and has chaos/insp/x then it’s slow as Christmas just runaway.
So unless you just… Can’t notice 12 stacks of confusion and however many of torment to know when to cleanse… It’s not that hard to win that fight. If they can’t kill you you still win. Also, with the lack of clone death traits condi Mesmer has be actually be active in its attack else why bother attacking. It’s not the same as it was 1 year ago. And again, 1v1 isn’t a supported game mode which is really the only setting this shines.

The PB/GS was fine. Why? Because the traits themselves hadn’t changed in their coefficients. Anet just power creeped on everything. Adjusting the power creep would have fixed that.
Mantra Mesmer was worse, but a change of pace in buil variety, and most used Staff in it. And PB wasn’t even the problem. Confounding Suggestions was and it never got nerfed.

I am not going into specifics of what was fine and what wasn’t back then, just asked if OP played that meta, where if you landed the combo, the target was dead in 3 seconds. With the amount of buffs proposed with such increase of damage (25%) in a relative low CD plus the changes of the amulets and abilities to tank, will be feeding the power creep even more. We need more balance and not power creep where we one shot each other or kill in less than 5 seconds.

The game modes aren’t separated, whatever Anet does in PvE and PvP makes the mesmer roamer even more broken in WvW due to ascended gear, perplexity runes and food, while it is a joke in PvP. Condition mesmer will never see better days in PvP as long as anet don’t split the skills between the modes.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Not at all! I said that gunflame hitting for 19k was a bit over the top, and I stand by that statement!

But this thread isnt about warrior, so I suggest you stay on topic!

They can lower the burst then, because i rather take some sustained over a 10 sec burst window, while hit like a noodle after…

It isnt reasonable ever that staff skill 1 hit for 300-500 max on a target in PvP, while that bolt at the same time is slow as hell… I dont care if staff got some defensive skills, I rather have them remove all of it for some great dmg there!

I dont agree with how you look at things but I guess we just got different opinions on how we want mesmer class to work!

Staff isnt supposed to be a dps weapon, its a condi/control weapon. Greatsword is the power weapon.
Your probably just going to have to wait for a new elite spec if you want to play a sustained power dps build because thats just not how the class is designed at its core, the very nature of how phantasms attack and how shatters scale with amount of clones is all geared towards doing high periodic burst damage

azyume.6321:

Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

Calling staff a condition weapon is very funny… Its something that kinda become a thing here in gw2. calling it that… Let me explain why I dont agree…

Winds of chaos apply 1 stack of bleeding (7 sec), 1 stack of burning (1 sec) and 1 stack of vulnerability (5 sec)… ONE STACK, for a VERY SHORT DURATION and that ORB is MOVING very SLOW!!!

Chaos armor sure give some condition, but is also have huge cd… To apply conditions u dont want rely on that one lol…

Chaos storm same argument here, and has long cd aswell…

Just because you take a weapon and give it 1 stack of a condition on some skill, I wouldnt call it a pure “condition weapon”… But lets play with that word then… Why is the duration so low, and why so few stacks, why so long time until you can apply it to enemy after you press skill…

I think I trade that 1 stack of named condition, with very few stacks and duration, for some nice sustained dmg… I do that trade any time of the week…

That staff isnt going to kill anything, unless they afk or something… Or u really think 1 stack bleed (7sec), burning (1sec) and vulnerability (5sec), is gg condi dmg!? And that is going to make a change in that PvP team battle of yours!? kitten please…

You dont want it to get sustain dmg buff, but still wanna call it condition weapon!?

Then buff condition duration, give way more stacks and increase moving speed on that orb!

Scepter on the other hand I would agree call a condi weapon, it just work better and has some nice confusion apply, with more stacks and better duration!

But the scepter skill 1 still hit for very low amount of dmg and still only apply torment for a very very short duration!… It should be better!

And scepter skill 2 still needs some work…

With that argument, that all weapons that apply some kind of condition should have no sustained, then we sure need to nerf some weapons in this game…

Kayberz.5346:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Not at all! I said that gunflame hitting for 19k was a bit over the top, and I stand by that statement!

But this thread isnt about warrior, so I suggest you stay on topic!

They can lower the burst then, because i rather take some sustained over a 10 sec burst window, while hit like a noodle after…

It isnt reasonable ever that staff skill 1 hit for 300-500 max on a target in PvP, while that bolt at the same time is slow as hell… I dont care if staff got some defensive skills, I rather have them remove all of it for some great dmg there!

I dont agree with how you look at things but I guess we just got different opinions on how we want mesmer class to work!

Staff isnt supposed to be a dps weapon, its a condi/control weapon. Greatsword is the power weapon.
Your probably just going to have to wait for a new elite spec if you want to play a sustained power dps build because thats just not how the class is designed at its core, the very nature of how phantasms attack and how shatters scale with amount of clones is all geared towards doing high periodic burst damage

See my post above!

Also… I dont think I should have to wait for a new elite spec just to be able to do what all other classes can do aswell! To have some sustained!

Phantasms are doing laughable dmg… And also I can really se balance problems from increasing dmg they do aswell!

This design to this class isnt good, and it needs to change, even if that means shaking things up a bit… Also mesmer as a whole and how it works, is very hard to balance… I mean, really hard!

But still it needs to be looked at!

They really need to do something… I feel, I start getting bored playing my mesmer soon… I get very depressed when my shatters have cd, and that said class just keep dpsing me like theres no tomorrow!

I guess if this continues, I either stop playing gw2 entirely, or play some thief…

As a guy that played mesmer since the time of gw1, iam very sad! Iam not happy with the current state of the mesmer!

azyume.6321:

Jace al Thor.6745:

azyume.6321:

Did you even played mesmer during the power block and mirror blade period? What you suggest will make mesmer even more broken than that, specially if we take into account the new changes to amulet.

Also, condition mesmer is broken as kitten in WvW so your suggesting changes will never happen; Plus Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

The problem with condi Mesmer is that it only really applies 2 damaging conditions. Both of which happen to punish lack of condi clear and poor condition management. But neither are as strong as Burn so yeah. And if it’s a Chrono condi then it probably doesn’t have any condi clear itself other than torch so it’s weak against condi. If it’s not Chrono and has chaos/insp/x then it’s slow as Christmas just runaway.
So unless you just… Can’t notice 12 stacks of confusion and however many of torment to know when to cleanse… It’s not that hard to win that fight. If they can’t kill you you still win. Also, with the lack of clone death traits condi Mesmer has be actually be active in its attack else why bother attacking. It’s not the same as it was 1 year ago. And again, 1v1 isn’t a supported game mode which is really the only setting this shines.

The PB/GS was fine. Why? Because the traits themselves hadn’t changed in their coefficients. Anet just power creeped on everything. Adjusting the power creep would have fixed that.
Mantra Mesmer was worse, but a change of pace in buil variety, and most used Staff in it. And PB wasn’t even the problem. Confounding Suggestions was and it never got nerfed.

The game modes aren’t separated, whatever Anet does in PvE and PvP makes the mesmer roamer even more broken in WvW due to ascended gear, perplexity runes and food, while it is a joke in PvP. Condition mesmer will never see better days in PvP as long as anet don’t split the skills between the modes.

I kinda agree, yes!

WhiteRabbit.6931:

azyume.6321:

Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

Calling staff a condition weapon is very funny… Its something that kinda become a thing here in gw2. calling it that… Let me explain why I dont agree…

Winds of chaos apply 1 stack of bleeding (7 sec), 1 stack of burning (1 sec) and 1 stack of vulnerability (5 sec)… ONE STACK, for a VERY SHORT DURATION and that ORB is MOVING very SLOW!!!

Chaos armor sure give some condition, but is also have huge cd… To apply conditions u dont want rely on that one lol…

Chaos storm same argument here, and has long cd aswell…

Just because you take a weapon and give it 1 stack of a condition on some skill, I wouldnt call it a pure “condition weapon”… But lets play with that word then… Why is the duration so low, and why so few stacks, why so long time until you can apply it to enemy after you press skill…

I think I trade that 1 stack of named condition, with very few stacks and duration, for some nice sustained dmg… I do that trade any time of the week…

That staff isnt going to kill anything, unless they afk or something… Or u really think 1 stack bleed (7sec), burning (1sec) and vulnerability (5sec), is gg condi dmg!? And that is going to make a change in that PvP team battle of yours!? kitten please…

You dont want it to get sustain dmg buff, but still wanna call it condition weapon!?

Then buff condition duration, give way more stacks and increase moving speed on that orb!

Scepter on the other hand I would agree call a condi weapon, it just work better and has some nice confusion apply, with more stacks and better duration!

But the scepter skill 1 still hit for very low amount of dmg and still only apply torment for a very very short duration!… It should be better!

And scepter skill 2 still needs some work…

With that argument, that all weapons that apply some kind of condition should have no sustained, then we sure need to nerf some weapons in this game…

Mesmers dont mostly rely on weapon skills for their damage like other classes, a lot of it comes from shattering clones

Staff applys conditions while also having decent clone production to shatter a bunch, thats why its considered a decent condi weapon, on top of all that its got decent defensive/control utility to help you kite so that your condis have time to kill, the weapon isnt ment to be your max power dps weapon

Just because you might like the aesthetic of using a staff as a dps weapon doesnt mean its going to work well, thats just not how the weapon was designed to be used

Kayberz.5346:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

azyume.6321:

Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

Calling staff a condition weapon is very funny… Its something that kinda become a thing here in gw2. calling it that… Let me explain why I dont agree…

Winds of chaos apply 1 stack of bleeding (7 sec), 1 stack of burning (1 sec) and 1 stack of vulnerability (5 sec)… ONE STACK, for a VERY SHORT DURATION and that ORB is MOVING very SLOW!!!

Chaos armor sure give some condition, but is also have huge cd… To apply conditions u dont want rely on that one lol…

Chaos storm same argument here, and has long cd aswell…

Just because you take a weapon and give it 1 stack of a condition on some skill, I wouldnt call it a pure “condition weapon”… But lets play with that word then… Why is the duration so low, and why so few stacks, why so long time until you can apply it to enemy after you press skill…

I think I trade that 1 stack of named condition, with very few stacks and duration, for some nice sustained dmg… I do that trade any time of the week…

That staff isnt going to kill anything, unless they afk or something… Or u really think 1 stack bleed (7sec), burning (1sec) and vulnerability (5sec), is gg condi dmg!? And that is going to make a change in that PvP team battle of yours!? kitten please…

You dont want it to get sustain dmg buff, but still wanna call it condition weapon!?

Then buff condition duration, give way more stacks and increase moving speed on that orb!

Scepter on the other hand I would agree call a condi weapon, it just work better and has some nice confusion apply, with more stacks and better duration!

But the scepter skill 1 still hit for very low amount of dmg and still only apply torment for a very very short duration!… It should be better!

And scepter skill 2 still needs some work…

With that argument, that all weapons that apply some kind of condition should have no sustained, then we sure need to nerf some weapons in this game…

Mesmers dont mostly rely on weapon skills for their damage like other classes, a lot of it comes from shattering clones

Staff applys conditions while also having decent clone production to shatter a bunch, thats why its considered a decent condi weapon, on top of all that its got decent defensive/control utility to help you kite so that your condis have time to kill, the weapon isnt ment to be your max power dps weapon

Just because you might like the aesthetic of using a staff as a dps weapon doesnt mean its going to work well, thats just not how the weapon was designed to be used

Things can allways get redesigned, and condi duration and condi stacks should still be buffed if its going to be a descent “condi weapon”…

When the season is over I will practice a few other classes. I don’t have high hopes for mes. In this meta it feels like a lot of hard work with little reward. Whereas most other classes have very high sustain and damage, on mes you have to choose. I run a lot of builds over 3 years and currently play glass power, but even with glass power it doesn’t compare to a DH burst standing still trapping and out dpsing you at range. I’m not even going to mention reaper or scrapper. Playing a lot of matches I don’t see any mes really standing out, they are more of a support class now or some boring bunker variant (RIP).

WhiteRabbit.6931:

azyume.6321:

Staff and scepter are condition weapons why, why do you want dps on a condition weapon?

Calling staff a condition weapon is very funny… Its something that kinda become a thing here in gw2. calling it that… Let me explain why I dont agree…

Winds of chaos apply 1 stack of bleeding (7 sec), 1 stack of burning (1 sec) and 1 stack of vulnerability (5 sec)… ONE STACK, for a VERY SHORT DURATION and that ORB is MOVING very SLOW!!!

Chaos armor sure give some condition, but is also have huge cd… To apply conditions u dont want rely on that one lol…

Chaos storm same argument here, and has long cd aswell…

Just because you take a weapon and give it 1 stack of a condition on some skill, I wouldnt call it a pure “condition weapon”… But lets play with that word then… Why is the duration so low, and why so few stacks, why so long time until you can apply it to enemy after you press skill…

I think I trade that 1 stack of named condition, with very few stacks and duration, for some nice sustained dmg… I do that trade any time of the week…

That staff isnt going to kill anything, unless they afk or something… Or u really think 1 stack bleed (7sec), burning (1sec) and vulnerability (5sec), is gg condi dmg!? And that is going to make a change in that PvP team battle of yours!? kitten please…

You dont want it to get sustain dmg buff, but still wanna call it condition weapon!?

Then buff condition duration, give way more stacks and increase moving speed on that orb!

Scepter on the other hand I would agree call a condi weapon, it just work better and has some nice confusion apply, with more stacks and better duration!

But the scepter skill 1 still hit for very low amount of dmg and still only apply torment for a very very short duration!… It should be better!

And scepter skill 2 still needs some work…

With that argument, that all weapons that apply some kind of condition should have no sustained, then we sure need to nerf some weapons in this game…

Did I said staff was pure condition weapon? No. But if you want to go into details, staff is a defense/condition weapon. Do you know any 2 hands core defensive weapon which has low cool downs? Only one currently is druid staff which is more towards support but arguably needs some tweaks.

It is the same as asking why elementalist or guardian focus can’t kill anyone. Because they weren’t designed for it…

You don’t use the staff for dps, you use it to keep the condition pressure up while defending yourself. You also forget that while the staff is dealing with low damage + condition is also giving you and your allies boons. So there is your weapon dealing condition plus giving you sustain. Which make your last statement wrong.

Wind of chaos attacks bounces, hits with condition and gives boons and the projectile is homing. Which one would would like to give up in order to increase the orb speed?

Staff 5, Chaos Storm, deals damage plus 1 random condition per second plus one random boon for 5 seconds plus daze on five targets and five allies also it is a combo field in a 35 seconds cool down. If that’s not enough then I guess something like the necromancer signet of spite which inflicts the double of conditions on a 60 seconds cool down utility?

We did have a good dps burst when Robert Gee did his thing the first time on patch 23rd something. Infact at that time, it was the first time in 2 years we were not food for thieves. We had 4 bounces on Mirror blade & wood burst dps all classes. But soon after it got the NERF HACHET cuz peeps thought mesmer was unbalance & OP. Even Mesmer players was complaining how strong we were. & now you all complaining on How Weak we are? ……..after pleeding anet to nerf us at that time. Really? No i think as a mesmer & it’s advocate & hearing all you mesmers complaining, You all deserve what you got. Kitten you all & live with it!

Jace al Thor.6745:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Hmmm yes and no. They still are maintaining some bunker amulets and adding others so it’s still a good chance that it’ll be the same problem. If it’s not, then another problem arises. Thieves hard counter shatter Mesmer, have for years so we’ll be back to where were before with only 2-3 people playing Mesmer on top tier play instead of having multiple. So there’s the problem we have. Mesmers run bunker and be able to compete against everything or run shatter once the patch hits and gets pushed out of the meta. That’s my opinion mind you and like kittenholes everyone has one.

As for balance, a test server would go a long ways for them. Or splitting balance between PvP/PvE. On the other hand, as it stands that won’t happen so ideally they would the weak stuff first to bring everything up to par and if something was still OP at that point bring it down to par with everything else. No knee jerk, haphazard balancing.

Only issue with the Thief will hard counter Shatter Mesmer, Mesmers have more build diversity than thieves, you compare 1 role that Mesmer have vs the only role Thieves have. Mesmer brings a lot more to the table in the form of group utility, and don’t forget Guardian has always hard countered Thief.i play both and yes the heavy handed nerfs to Mesmer are ridiculous Anet went too far, it just needed to be toned down, hell the removal of Quick stomps/ Rez would have hurt ChronoBunk quite a bit all by itself, yes core Mesmer needs a rework not a buff but an actual rework, the same that Thief needs a rework since most traits thieves have are useless.

mesmer will still be mandatory for raids post alacrity nerf, they don’t need any buffs.