Guild Wars 2

-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.

-Spirit rangers, one of the strongest duelling classes in which spamming one is viable.

-Necromancers(condi & MM), spam conditions, all you need to worry about is timing fears and CC available to you.

-Engineer(condi), make sure you use every single condition ability while its off-CD and make sure to keep vigor up with kits, timing is within blinds and shield abilities + ultimate only.

Now for more active builds:

-Rangers(power), requires immense skill in order to simply function, being overshadowed by probably the easiest build in the game(spirits) and is much less viable.

-Engineer(Power), this is on a whole different skill level than condition engineer, and requires much more timing, often STILL overshadowed by the condition engineer.

-Thief(Classic D/P), requires immense skill simply to function, probably the highest skill-cap build that can still be viable, but lacks so much performance in standard to other classes/builds.

-Elementalists, this is just sad… this class is probably the most active in this game, utilising almost every skill in every attunment, this class’s performance is most likely the worse and the risk/reward is just terrible. I believe it’s performance is worse than the old warrior.

(As for Mesmer and Guardian, I was never interested in, and know very little about, but they seem well balanced to play.)

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

MM takes more skill than people give credit. Sure minions are outsourced damage, but the fun “play” of it is using your character as a source of Control to allow uptime and knowing when the best time to use minions/sacrifice them are. If anything the force the game to be more active because people can’t stand still and facetank so much. It also comes with its draw backs; no stability, protection, spot condi removal, vigor, no blocks/invuln, so basically anything that comes at us, we have to deal with ourselves with the limited dodging we have, and making sure we connect enough hits to get some life force generation or else we’re toast against a good player. Play one before you knock it and pretend it’s too easy to play.

It’s only easy against nubs who stand still. MM is incredibly fun in higher tier play where its not so easy and you have to work for the minion uptime. (Assuming they don’t just get aoe’d down.)

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Was I asking for a nerf? I was asking for a timing requirement and to make it possible for interrupts like most other healing skills. Even though I believe warriors current damage/survive ratio is currently the highest in the game, I’d at least want it to require some for of skill.

I’m also wondering why the devs still allow you to reply to anything on these forums, you make a lot of noise by yourself.

they are buffing passive ini regen and nerf active ini gain on thieves…. also moving to passive gameplay it seems zzz

Phantom Master.9582:

Was I asking for a nerf? I was asking for a timing requirement and to make it possible for interrupts like most other healing skills. Even though I believe warriors current damage/survive ratio is currently the highest in the game, I’d at least want it to require some for of skill.

I’m also wondering why the devs still allow you to reply to anything on these forums, you make a lot of noise by yourself.

Chaining CC and running away when HP below tolerable threshold when You-No-Kill-Me-for-Eight-Seconds stances are on CD and then finding a nice spot to let Healing Signet bring you back to 100% in no time requires some serious skills you know.

Phantom Master.9582:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Was I asking for a nerf? I was asking for a timing requirement and to make it possible for interrupts like most other healing skills. Even though I believe warriors current damage/survive ratio is currently the highest in the game, I’d at least want it to require some for of skill.

I’m also wondering why the devs still allow you to reply to anything on these forums, you make a lot of noise by yourself.

well, the way you wrote it “massive healing” etc and “despite having such high defense” etc kinda feels like you were asking for a nerf etc.

as for you “asking for a timing requirement” etc and “make it possible for interrupts” etc then i fail to notice that in your original post.

healing signet, is a signet, it has passive ability (regen health per second) and active. the active can be interrupted when warrior chooses to activate the healing signet.

the passive, cannot be interrupt, since it is not activated. it is countered by constantly reapplying health degeneration conditions such as bleeding, poison, burning etc.

“I’d at least want it to require some for of skill.”
to me, the healing signet is working fine. why fix something that is not broken?

“I’m also wondering why the devs still allow you to reply to anything on these forums, you make a lot of noise by yourself.”
i try my best to avoid getting forum infractions and post according to the forum rules of conduct.

making a lot of noise is fine as long as it is done according to the forum rules.

The problem is that the devs think lowering the skill cap as much as possible is going to make the game better. They want to attract casuals to pvp by dumbing the game down so much that someone who has never pvped before can play a couple games and be near full effectiveness. This is why any time a build comes around that is high risk high reward, they nerf it to the ground and simultaneously buff the mindless builds of the class. It’s unfortunate, but so is most of what these guys do. I think they are going to be in for a real shock when another mmo with pvp is released and they actually have competition.

counter it out…
with more passive play

Phantom Master.9582:

-Engineer(condi), make sure you use every single condition ability while its off-CD and make sure to keep vigor up with kits, timing is within blinds and shield abilities + ultimate only.

-Thief(Classic D/P), requires immense skill simply to function, probably the highest skill-cap build that can still be viable, but lacks so much performance in standard to other classes/builds.

I can’t take this thread seriously.

dreztina.4820:

The problem is that the devs think lowering the skill cap as much as possible is going to make the game better. They want to attract casuals to pvp by dumbing the game down so much that someone who has never pvped before can play a couple games and be near full effectiveness. This is why any time a build comes around that is high risk high reward, they nerf it to the ground and simultaneously buff the mindless builds of the class. It’s unfortunate, but so is most of what these guys do. I think they are going to be in for a real shock when another mmo with pvp is released and they actually have competition.

considering the pvp scene in this game is dead i dont really get the last sentence…

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Phantom Master.9582:

Was I asking for a nerf? I was asking for a timing requirement and to make it possible for interrupts like most other healing skills. Even though I believe warriors current damage/survive ratio is currently the highest in the game, I’d at least want it to require some for of skill.

I’m also wondering why the devs still allow you to reply to anything on these forums, you make a lot of noise by yourself.

Chaining CC and running away when HP below tolerable threshold when You-No-Kill-Me-for-Eight-Seconds stances are on CD and then finding a nice spot to let Healing Signet bring you back to 100% in no time requires some serious skills you know.

Nah brah, press 1 button to heal all damage takes some serious skill.

qqqqqqqqqq

The funny thing is that GW2 combat is way more active than most MMOs. There are a few really powerful traits that make the skill floor a bit low for certain builds in comparison to other builds in the game. But what are we comparing it to?

PvP also has a pretty massive learning curve compared to a lot of games. r30 in GW2 is maybe 100-150 hours, and it’s extremely rare to see someone below that who is really good. How much higher should the skill floor be?

Very accurate post IMO.

I hope anet consider o change their meta where all you have to do is to go tanky and spamm conditions.

They have a great chance to do cool stuff this dec 10, i just hope they don’t disappoint the community that basically asking to focus on real fight skill and not spamming things with passive support skills with no risk or punishment on mistakes.

Phantom Master.9582:

-Elementalists, this is just sad… this class is probably the most active in this game, utilising almost every skill in every attunment, this class’s performance is most likely the worse and the risk/reward is just terrible. I believe it’s performance is worse than the old warrior.

This

Kaon.7192:

I hope nobody takes offense to this, but statistically speaking, it is likely that most devs are, in fact, bad players. And this can be reflected in many of the previous balance changes they’ve implemented and their general inability to predict the effects of their changes on the high level competitive meta, as well as their tendency to favor passive, easy to play builds over those with a high skill ceiling.

Its about time they swallowed their pride and started getting input from high level competitive teams on balance changes by letting them test them out in preview servers before releasing them into the wild.

Before this game strays too far from what a competitive game should play like.

From one of my previous posts:

Kaon.7192:

I really don’t think ANet’s internal testers can play at the same level as top-tier competitive teams do in the external meta.

Traditionally, testers are hired based on their professional skills in terms of testing experience, efficiency, and attention to detail, and not solely on their GW2 gameplay ability. Statistically speaking, the number of people who possess both the necessary professional skills as well as the ability to play GW2 at a high level will be relatively few. And to be honest it’s not reasonable to replace testers simply because they’re not top tier players when they can perform their real work flawlessly.

This gap in skill and experience level between internal and external teams can be evident from the last few patches where several changes have had detrimental effects to the competitive meta that ANet was not able to foresee. The fact that passive builds like Healing Signet Warrior, Spirit Ranger, etc have been favored in balance changes over builds with a high skill ceiling is likely also a direct effect of this gap. This gap will only widen, and its effect amplified, as time goes on, because the large majority of competitve players have much more time to play and master the game than internal testers do.

Bottom line is: ANet needs to start consulting top competitive teams and players when making balance changes, and give them access to playable preview builds to get their feedback before release. This is standard practice in game development for ESport worthy games, and it’s about time ANet started as well.

Passive builds usually aren’t better in theory, it’s that there is less room for user error.

Passive builds -> less room for error
Less room for error -> less risk
Less risk + same or better reward -> better

Passive builds + same or better reward -> better

As you can see it’s not passive builds alone that we have problems with. It’s the fact that most passive builds in this game are at least as effective, if not more so, compared to their high skill ceiling counterparts.

Kaon.7192:

Passive builds -> less room for error
Less room for error -> less risk
Less risk + same or better reward -> better

Passive builds + same or better reward -> better

As you can see it’s not passive builds alone that we have problems with. It’s the fact that most passive builds in this game are at least as effective, if not more so, compared to their high skill ceiling counterparts.

You leave out that passives take away from being active meaning less twitch play and less on-demand for the same effects. So if you wanted to be fair, it’d be something like:

Passive builds = less room for error, less risk but less on demand.
Active = More room for error, more risk, but more control over ability.
Passive = medium skill cap possible.
Active = Higher skill cap possible.
Active = better in high tier
Passive = better in low tier.
Active play skill factor swings harder and passive swings less.

Active can be much more powerful than passive in a balanced world. the “Or better” part on passives that you threw in there were balance issues, not active versus passive. Your judgments aren’t fair.

ronpierce.2760:

MM takes more skill than people give credit. Sure minions are outsourced damage, but the fun “play” of it is using your character as a source of Control to allow uptime and knowing when the best time to use minions/sacrifice them are. If anything the force the game to be more active because people can’t stand still and facetank so much. It also comes with its draw backs; no stability, protection, spot condi removal, vigor, no blocks/invuln, so basically anything that comes at us, we have to deal with ourselves with the limited dodging we have, and making sure we connect enough hits to get some life force generation or else we’re toast against a good player. Play one before you knock it and pretend it’s too easy to play.

It’s only easy against nubs who stand still. MM is incredibly fun in higher tier play where its not so easy and you have to work for the minion uptime. (Assuming they don’t just get aoe’d down.)

Where are you playing at higher tier? You’re not on either LB on NA so are you talking about duel servers?

I used to be top 200, I just stopped doing Conquest because I got bored of it and had no motivation of going in anymore. :/ (Team Que, never did much SoloQ)

Introduce more passive play.

Anet keeps introducing powerful passives..
30 Earth, Condi immunity trait for eles
+% conversions and damage% increases for bad minor traits
etc etc…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Worst troll ever.. Rofl saying that if you cant ouplay passive, you dont deserve to beat this class.. I mean theres some class has bunker who dont even cleave enough to out damaged that passive.. I am sorry if i am rude, but it is pathetic to think that way…

sublime goes doggy.4826:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Worst troll ever, rofl if you cant ouplay passive you dont deserve to beat it.. you are so pathetic.

no ur pathetic, now im not gonna follow ur twitch cause ur rude

sublime goes doggy.4826:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Worst troll ever.. Rofl saying that if you cant ouplay passive, you dont deserve to beat this class.. I mean theres some class has bunker who dont even cleave enough to out damaged that passive.. I am sorry if i am rude, but it is pathetic to think that way…

no offense taken no worries.

look at it this way, if one is a bunker spec profession, versus a warrior who is spec defensively.

do you really expect the bunker spec profession to defeat the defensive warrior on his / her own?

guild wars 2 is a team game.
bring some friends and beat down the warrior.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

guild wars 2 is a team game.

asdfasdasdfafsdasfd
GW2 is actually the least social MMO ever made.

And you have to remember… game’s are made for engaging gameplay…
Fighting bunker specs you pretty much cannot ever kill no matter how much better you are… in a game widely based around 1v1s…
That’s bad.
That’s really bad.

garethh,
are you trying to say, there are bunker builds that cannot be killed by 2 or 3 players together?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

sublime goes doggy.4826:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“-Warriors, has a signet that gives massive healing despite having such high defense, no need to think about using it… it uses itself.”
working nicely as intended. it was too weak previously, but it is fine now.
note, if someone cannot deal enough damage to a healing signet warrior, then they do not deserve to defeat the warrior.

Worst troll ever.. Rofl saying that if you cant ouplay passive, you dont deserve to beat this class.. I mean theres some class has bunker who dont even cleave enough to out damaged that passive.. I am sorry if i am rude, but it is pathetic to think that way…

no offense taken no worries.

look at it this way, if one is a bunker spec profession, versus a warrior who is spec defensively.

do you really expect the bunker spec profession to defeat the defensive warrior on his / her own?

guild wars 2 is a team game.
bring some friends and beat down the warrior.

Warriors are incredibly tanky for the damage they do, the issue is they apply the Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless Hammer buffs on the stunning skill, most usable firefields in the game with plenty access to blast finishers. These artificial increases in the attack power of the warrior allow it to be tanky and the use heal sig to absorb soooo much incoming damage. Its the most efficient heal, never over healing, never being interupted, never not healing you when you need it and stacks with regen and ranger spirit. Warriors need a good hard look and dancing along saying “everything is fine” is just being silly.

“Warriors are incredibly tanky for the damage they do, "
only if they spec it to be tanky, yes?

“the issue is they apply the Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless Hammer buffs on the stunning skill, "
i think the 10 dec patch will balance this?
i do not use these 2 traits for my warrior though.

“most usable firefields in the game with plenty access to blast finishers.”
only if they use long bow. the damage will be lowered by 15% in the patch.
as for blast finishers,
warhorn 5
longbow 3
stomp
banners,
hammer burst
only if they equip the skills with blast finishers, if their build is spec for area might stacking, then why not?

“These artificial increases in the attack power of the warrior allow it to be tanky and the use heal sig to absorb soooo much incoming damage.”
working as intended. might boons can be removed, or the warrior can be stunned, interrupted etc to prevent area might stacking via fire field from happening in the first place.

“Its the most efficient heal, never over healing, never being interupted, never not healing you when you need it and stacks with regen and ranger spirit.”
when it was weak, useless, no one was complaining. now it is working as intended. suddenly so many people think it is overpowered. it is not.

“Warriors need a good hard look and dancing along saying “everything is fine” is just being silly.”
nah, warriors are balanced. just the other professions are weak.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

nah, warriors are balanced. just the other professions are weak.

Don’t mean to intrude, but that statement doesn’t exactly make sense. When every prof else is weak compared to you, it’s unbalanced.

bal·ance
noun \?ba-l?n(t)s\

: the state of having your profession compared equally to the others in guild war2

He likely means at a state of normality. But that’s also false. Bringing everyone up to the OP class every time is how you get a power creep. Warriors need brought down a bit, so does MM single target dps (with some pet cleave and survivability trade off).

This level of passive play would be acceptable in an MMO that had players use more skills.

But in GW2 it’s borderline insulting to have builds relying on so much passive play when there are only 10-15 abilities to even manage.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Warriors are incredibly tanky for the damage they do, "
only if they spec it to be tanky, yes?

“the issue is they apply the Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless Hammer buffs on the stunning skill, "
i think the 10 dec patch will balance this?
i do not use these 2 traits for my warrior though.

“Warriors need a good hard look and dancing along saying “everything is fine” is just being silly.”
nah, warriors are balanced. just the other professions are weak.

Seriously? You choose to not run the meta build which has all the problems and yet argue against there being problems.. And as you’ve stated warriors are stronger than the other professions good to see you’re arguing for my point now ^^

Yet another QQ thread because you dont know how to play, Anet should seriously just delete these or just get a bot to do it, seriously. You dont see top players making these threads or even commenting on them. Maybe that’s for a reason? Everything has a counter and it’s not hard to figure out what it is. Just takes some patience & skill. “omg spirit rangerzz so op they spam de 1” “omg warriors kill da op spirit rangerz they must be moaaar op as ever” is all i hear these days

Inverted.7439:

Yet another QQ thread because you dont know how to play, Anet should seriously just delete these or just get a bot to do it, seriously. You dont see top players making these threads or even commenting on them. Maybe that’s for a reason? Everything has a counter and it’s not hard to figure out what it is. Just takes some patience & skill. “omg spirit rangerzz so op they spam de 1” “omg warriors kill da op spirit rangerz they must be moaaar op as ever” is all i hear these days

Time to bring out the QQ gun huh?

The OP ‘s post is quite legit, it’s not about warrior but passive plays. Unless in your mind warrior=passive play. See, that’s exactly the problem.

The real problem is that people overuse, and often incorrectly use terms. Point being:
- Stats from traits are passive.
- Many/most traits are passive.
- Boons are passive once applied.
- Conditions are passive once applied.
- CCs are "passive"ly keeping someone still once applied.
- Pets are passive.
- All signets are passive.
- Attacks with evades on them are passive.
- Sigils are passive
- Runes are passive.
- Amulets are passive.
- Auto attack is passive.
- Initiative gain is passive.

I think that’s enough so that you can hopefully get my point. It’s an mmo, this isn’t street fighter. If you want to play a game with absolutely no passive effects go play a fighter. Otherwise learn to deal with whats rightfully a part of MMOs and just deal with it. A good build has a strong mix of both passive bonuses and active. That’s the whole idea behind sustain versus burst in any mmo. Are some passives really powerful? Yes. Are some actives also really powerful? Hell yes. So why are we still complaining about it? If you don’t like the core basics of mmos don’t play one and get upset when it has stats and character building… That’s all there is to it. This is fact, not opinion.

ronpierce.2760:

The real problem is that people overuse, and often incorrectly use terms. Point being:
- Stats from traits are passive.
- Many/most traits are passive.
- Boons are passive once applied.
- Conditions are passive once applied.
- CCs are "passive"ly keeping someone still once applied.
- Pets are passive.
- All signets are passive.
- Attacks with evades on them are passive.
- Sigils are passive
- Runes are passive.
- Amulets are passive.
- Auto attack is passive.
- Initiative gain is passive.

I think that’s enough so that you can hopefully get my point. It’s an mmo, this isn’t street fighter. If you want to play a game with absolutely no passive effects go play a fighter. Otherwise learn to deal with whats rightfully a part of MMOs and just deal with it. A good build has a strong mix of both passive bonuses and active. That’s the whole idea behind sustain versus burst in any mmo. Are some passives really powerful? Yes. Are some actives also really powerful? Hell yes. So why are we still complaining about it? If you don’t like the core basics of mmos don’t play one and get upset when it has stats and character building… That’s all there is to it. This is fact, not opinion.

you change your mind so fast, ronpierce. i saw your posts on the lyssa rune thread complaining about how op lyssa rune is and now this. lol

I didn’t say there aren’t imbalances. I said Lyssa is too powerful versus other Runes, which they are. I didn’t say runes are terrible and need to go. There’s a difference between saying that there are imbalances and saying something simply has to go.

Phantom Master.9582:

-Rangers(power), requires immense skill in order to simply function, being overshadowed by probably the easiest build in the game(spirits) and is much less viable.

The biggest problem with Power Rangers is their lack of, well, doing anything effective. Due to their fragile state they can’t stay on point and, if pressured, they ether have to peel or attempt to fight in a severely disadvantaged position. On top of this, even if there is a teammate to hold on point, their longbow skills (and their pet) are so slow and spotty that it makes absolutely no sense to bring one. On top of this, quickness (and pet dmg) has been hit hard over the lifetime of guild wars 2 to the point of near uselessness on most classes (Ranger being one of them). So in short, building a power ranger is akin to building a condi guardian – you just don’t do it.

Instead, Anet has effectively pigeon-holled the class in to what we have now. Have fun playing a brain-dead build which involves pressing 1 button in order to achieve as much bleeding and burning as possible. All those other skills on your bar? You can press ‘em, but they won’t make much of a difference in the fight because your spirits are ultimately what’s carrying you.

Instead of anet trying to find ways for spirits to be played in an active way, where a person might place them on or near a point, travel to another point, and have gauge whether or not to use its ability if a teammate is being attacked (by watching the healthbars) – effectively creating it as a support utility as intended. Now they are dumbed down (but now effective) to the point where you just re-cast them on cooldown – making them a fire-and-forget utility. GG anet.

Phantom Master.9582:

-Thief(Classic D/P), requires immense skill simply to function, probably the highest skill-cap build that can still be viable, but lacks so much performance in standard to other classes/builds.

Sadly we see many drool-monkeys instead – which is at the heart of your post.

Phantom Master.9582:

-Elementalists, this is just sad…

Yes, yes it is.