Another nerf condi thread

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Berserker only stops conditions before they are applied and has a 60 second cooldown on only Warrior, Purging Flames is the skill doing 10k damage to you at the same time, Diamond Skin is bunker Elementalist only and only works in 1 vs 1s any good. I don’t know why you mentioned Unholy Fervor.
Reduce recharge of axe skills. Axe skills deal increased damage to vulnerable foes.

Damage Damage Increase: 10%
Recharge Recharge Reduced: 20%

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Corrupter’s Fervor, sorry. Both traits never get used (though for Corrupter’s Fervor, it’s more to do with the overall weak state of Death Magic Master tier making it undesirable) and have similar names.

Endure Pain is also Warrior only and half the duration on the same cooldown and, likewise, only affects hits you take after you activate it. So what? Immunity skills of all types are not evenly distributed. Necros and thieves have none, for example.

Purging Flames both deals damage and helps you survive. There are a ton of skills that pull double-duty like that.

Stone Heart is also effective against condition builds, as they usually have a number of on-crit procs. Not always, but usually.

The skills and traits that defend exlusively against condition damage without cleansing are pretty even with those that only deal with direct damage. If anything, they’re stronger.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Gabriell.4856

Gabriell.4856

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Last time I checked, only direct damage proc retal not condition damage so no to your first two sentence.

“There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.”

“You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.”

So don’t make blind statement like that when you know it’s not true.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

Corrupter’s Fervor, sorry. Both traits never get used (though for Corrupter’s Fervor, it’s more to do with the overall weak state of Death Magic Master tier making it undesirable) and have similar names.

Endure Pain is also Warrior only. So what? Immunity skills of all types are not evenly distributed. Necros and thieves have none, for example Purging Flames both deals damage and helps you survive. There are a ton of skills that pull double-duty like that. Stone Heart is also effective against condition builds, as they usually have a number of on-crit procs.

The skills and traits that defend exlusively against condition damage without cleansing are pretty even with those that only deal with direct damage.

Pretty sure nothing has condition immunity skills besides Warrior unless you boon convert chill for a whole 2 seconds worth and Elementalist above 90% health. However there is a ton of physical damage reduction traits and skill, 20% reduction is the best you got from that trait and Scrappers.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Last time I checked, only direct damage proc retal not condition damage so no to your first two sentence.

Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.

“There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.”

“You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.”

So don’t make blind statement like that when you know it’s not true.

Mistakes happen. For general purposes, what I said the first time is completely true. Outside of specific skills or traits, Toughness, Weakness, and Protection are the only things that affect direct damage, but not conditions. Likewise, cleanses and Resistance only affect conditions and not direct damage.

When you factor in specific skills and traits, things are still even. Every damage reduction (not immunity) trait is countered out by damage amplification traits (which don’t apply to conditions). Want to do immunities? Warrior has Defy Pain and Berserker Stance. The one protecting from conditions actually has double the uptime. Elementalist has a trait to make them immune to most condition builds (as the physical DPS is rarely enough to make it past their constant healing), but no similar protection from direct damage. Likewise, Ranger has Signet of Stone to protect against physical damage and nothing from conditions. Necros, and soon Revenants, Druids, and Scrappers, all have traits (or skills, on Revenant Jallis) that reduce condition damage, which help even out traits that boost the damage of particular conditions.

Invulnerabilities protect you from everything a player can do. They do not help against hits you have already taken.

On the defense and prevention front, everything evens out.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Corrupter’s Fervor, sorry. Both traits never get used (though for Corrupter’s Fervor, it’s more to do with the overall weak state of Death Magic Master tier making it undesirable) and have similar names.

Endure Pain is also Warrior only. So what? Immunity skills of all types are not evenly distributed. Necros and thieves have none, for example Purging Flames both deals damage and helps you survive. There are a ton of skills that pull double-duty like that. Stone Heart is also effective against condition builds, as they usually have a number of on-crit procs.

The skills and traits that defend exlusively against condition damage without cleansing are pretty even with those that only deal with direct damage.

Pretty sure nothing has condition immunity skills besides Warrior unless you boon convert chill for a whole 2 seconds worth and Elementalist above 90% health. However there is a ton of physical damage reduction traits and skill, 20% reduction is the best you got from that trait and Scrappers.

There are only 2 direct damage immunity skills in the game (plus Defiant Stance, which works on everything), so that’s hardly a useful argument. Damage reduction traits and skills balance out damage amplification traits and skills. Which, I might add, are two things that are exceedingly rare when dealing with conditions in either positive or negative manners.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Last time I checked, only direct damage proc retal not condition damage so no to your first two sentence.

Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.

“There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.”

“You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.”

So don’t make blind statement like that when you know it’s not true.

Mistakes happen. For general purposes, what I said the first time is completely true. Outside of specific skills or traits, Toughness, Weakness, and Protection are the only things that affect direct damage, but not conditions. Likewise, cleanses and Resistance only affect conditions and not direct damage.

When you factor in specific skills and traits, things are still even. Every damage reduction (not immunity) trait is countered out by damage amplification traits (which don’t apply to conditions). Want to do immunities? Warrior has Defy Pain and Berserker Stance. The one protecting from conditions actually has double the uptime. Elementalist has a trait to make them immune to most condition builds (as the physical DPS is rarely enough to make it past their constant healing), but no similar protection from direct damage. Likewise, Ranger has Signet of Stone to protect against physical damage and nothing from conditions. Necros, and soon Revenants, Druids, and Scrappers, all have traits that reduce condition damage, which help even out traits that boost the damage of particular conditions.

Invulnerabilities protect you from everything a player can do. They do not help against hits you have already taken.

On the defense and prevention front, everything evens out.

Druids trait is kitten and Revenants only do that if they are a condition build themselves, they are the same as Necromancers. Invulnerability does not remove already applied conditions so a Guardian going invulnerable for 3 seconds while taking 3k burn ticks takes 9k and possibly dies, if he did it to protect against a Hundred Blades he took nothing. Zerker lasts double the duration but there is a trait to automatically proc Endure Pain too.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Druids trait is kitten and Revenants only do that if they are a condition build themselves, they are the same as Necromancers. Invulnerability does not remove already applied conditions so a Guardian going invulnerable for 3 seconds while taking 3k burn ticks takes 9k and possibly dies, if he did it to protect against a Hundred Blades he took nothing. Zerker lasts double the duration but there is a trait to automatically proc Endure Pain too.

Revenants do it from Jallis and the Retribution line. Hardly a “condition build” thing. (note: wiki has not been updated with these changes from the last BWE)

Necros get that reduction for any kind of build. Necros in general apply a bunch of conditions, whether those are its damage source or not. It’s actually much more likely on Power builds because Death Magic has very little to offer Condition builds.

If the Guardian used Renewed Focus to prevent taking the hits that applied burning, he’d be cool. You’re basically saying that, because the Guardian went invulnerable after being hit with a Hundred Blades, he should be fine, because he went invulnerable. That is the exact thing you are suggesting should be the case by saying it should stop damage from conditions that were already applied.

So, a trait (requiring a situation you don’t want to be in) plus a utility skill to equal the single utility skill. And the condition defense is somehow weaker?

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

Druids trait is kitten and Revenants only do that if they are a condition build themselves, they are the same as Necromancers. Invulnerability does not remove already applied conditions so a Guardian going invulnerable for 3 seconds while taking 3k burn ticks takes 9k and possibly dies, if he did it to protect against a Hundred Blades he took nothing. Zerker lasts double the duration but there is a trait to automatically proc Endure Pain too.

Revenants do it from Jallis and the Retribution line. Hardly a “condition build” thing. (note: wiki has not been updated with these changes from the last BWE)

Necros get that reduction for any kind of build. Necros in general apply a bunch of conditions, whether those are its damage source or not. It’s actually much more likely on Power builds because Death Magic has very little to offer Condition builds.

If the Guardian used Renewed Focus to prevent taking the hits that applied burning, he’d be cool. You’re basically saying that, because the Guardian went invulnerable after being hit with a Hundred Blades, he should be fine, because he went invulnerable. That is the exact thing you are suggesting should be the case by saying it should stop damage from conditions that were already applied.

So, a trait (requiring a situation you don’t want to be in) plus a utility skill to equal the single utility skill. And the condition defense is somehow weaker?

Because I haven’t said that sheer amount of instant burning that can be applied right? Only ones with any animation is Purging Flames and torch throws over all classes however little of an animation it may be and if you do it over a field you might as well have left it anyways since you decapped it anyways. You don’t need to take the utility to take the trait, best trait on the line anyways, even if you use a mace. Forgot about the crappy looking hammer whirl upkeep but that doesn’t look that good and there is nothing in Retribution, I’m talking about the resistance boon spam and condition transfer from the demon form.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Gabriell.4856

Gabriell.4856

.

“Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.

Yeah, ok. Care to explain necro’s CPC, Ele’s auras, warrior’s, warhorn, etc?

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Retribution had a Grandmaster changed to make the Jallis elite also apply to condition damage and auto-proc at a health threshold. The wiki hasn’t been updated with this info yet.

“Instant” burning is 2-3 stacks. Everything else has a cast time associated with it. And 2-3 stacks of Burning is easy to survive.

Oh no, you might have to leave the point for a couple seconds when facing a trap Ranger or bomb kit engie (or longbow warrior, but those aren’t viable, right?). Better to let them get the decap and kill them than to have them kill you and get the point anyway. This is almost always the case.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

.

“Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.

Yeah, ok. Care to explain necro’s CPC, Ele’s auras, warrior’s, warhorn, etc?

Since when did warhorn (of any variety) deal condition damage?

For auras, there is one, and only one, that applies condition damage, and that’s Fire aura. It would be stupid for Retaliation damage to apply to someone because they are being hit. The damage from this is low anyway and can be avoided entirely by just not attacking while it’s up.

Corrosive Poison Cloud is a bit of an outlier, sure, but since when was anyone worried about its damage? Only time its damage is even halfway scary is when a Reaper uses Soul Spiral in it, and 12 of those Poison stacks are from Soul Spiral anyway.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

Retribution had a Grandmaster changed to make the Jallis elite also apply to condition damage and auto-proc at a health threshold.

“Instant” burning is 2-3 stacks. Everything else has a cast time associated with it. And 2-3 stacks of Burning is easy to survive.

Oh no, you might have to leave the point for a couple seconds when facing a trap Ranger or bomb kit engie (or longbow warrior, but those aren’t viable, right?). Better to let them get the decap and kill them than to have them kill you and get the point anyway. This is almost always the case.

Well they might as well be instant because 1/2 second or less isn’t something you can really dodge since they aren’t projectiles. Please tell me one burning skill that you can dodge that isn’t a field that takes the size of a point giving a guaranteed decap if you walk out of it, you also might even let them cap since they last so long, good luck if anyone is melee in your team because they won’t be able to help at all in the team fight. Only ones are the torch throws and Purging Flames crappy hand raise. Alright 50% condition damage reduction for taking a trait to go along with the physical automatically for 5 seconds, casting it takes your entire bar so it probably won’t be worth doing if you like damage and condition build is better anti conditions still unless they changed something else about it.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

You’re right they were, then they nerfed mace to half a second from 1/4 but I don’t even care about it’s speed because mace is a kitten weapon besides that, pretty hard to make a no stun breaker build but condition removal needs to be specifically put in, if you let a mace Warrior hump your face in the first place, has no mobility unless they swap or Bullsrush but then they aren’t comboing into a swap. Short lived but low cooldown 12/8 with 3 second durations. Bonfire can be used twice in one weapon swap with Quick Draw trait, how is 8 seconds not long enough for a decap? But again you still didn’t list a single other possible to dodge burning skill, because they don’t exist, only ones are Dragon’s Tooth and basic attack on the useless scepter.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

You’re right they were, then they nerfed mace to half a second from 1/4 but I don’t even care about it’s speed because mace is a kitten weapon besides that, pretty hard to make a no stun breaker build but condition removal needs to be specifically put in, if you let a mace Warrior hump your face in the first place, has no mobility unless they swap or Bullsrush but then they aren’t comboing into a swap. Short lived but low cooldown 12/8 with 3 second durations. Bonfire can be used twice in one weapon swap with Quick Draw trait, how is 8 seconds not long enough for a decap? But again you still didn’t list a single other possible to dodge burning skill, because they don’t exist, only ones are Dragon’s Tooth and basic attack on the useless scepter.

Okay, want me to list the easily dodgable ones? Because I can do that. I’ll even leave out the fields you don’t want to stand in, regardless of their ease of dodging (hint: most are)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drake's_Breath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamestrike (overall, not worth it, since it’s an auto-attack, but definitely avoidable)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (this one is easy to dodge, but requires counting the time)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet (again, an auto-attack, but easily dodgable, especially as the burning is only on the last tick)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Napalm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Kick
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm (depends on range, as it’s a fairly slow-moving projectile)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Breath

I’ll leave out racial skills and situational ones like boon corruption or random chance. Funny thing, I just listed the majority of skills that burn.

And yes, a half-second cast is quite dodgable.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

You’re right they were, then they nerfed mace to half a second from 1/4 but I don’t even care about it’s speed because mace is a kitten weapon besides that, pretty hard to make a no stun breaker build but condition removal needs to be specifically put in, if you let a mace Warrior hump your face in the first place, has no mobility unless they swap or Bullsrush but then they aren’t comboing into a swap. Short lived but low cooldown 12/8 with 3 second durations. Bonfire can be used twice in one weapon swap with Quick Draw trait, how is 8 seconds not long enough for a decap? But again you still didn’t list a single other possible to dodge burning skill, because they don’t exist, only ones are Dragon’s Tooth and basic attack on the useless scepter.

Okay, want me to list the easily dodgable ones? Because I can do that. I’ll even leave out the fields you don’t want to stand in, regardless of their ease of dodging (hint: most are)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drake's_Breath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamestrike (overall, not worth it, since it’s an auto-attack, but definitely avoidable)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (this one is easy to dodge, but requires counting the time)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet (again, an auto-attack, but easily dodgable, especially as the burning is only on the last tick)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Napalm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Kick
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm (depends on range, as it’s a fairly slow-moving projectile)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Breath

I’ll leave out racial skills and situational ones like boon corruption or random chance. Funny thing, I just listed the majority of skills that burn.

And yes, a half-second cast is quite dodgable.

kitten you sure can pick some of the most useless skills not actually used. Already said torch throws, Dragon’s Tooth and Flamestrike. Drake’s Breath is a channel and only 5 second cooldown that can be reduced 33% so yeah good luck dodging it. Flamewall is a thin field that is only good on downed people. Blowtorch has no animation to look for, literally the same as any other pistol attack animation but not a projectile. Flame Turret, don’t see why you would even mention that, Guardian Spirit weapons are 10x stronger. Rocket kick isn’t worth taking either, a kit is stronger for a condition build either way. Signet of Fire is literally just a 1/2 point animation, signet appears when you’ve already been hit. Lol dodge 2 second burning every 2 seconds on flamethrower, not even worth dodging. Throw Napalm requires turret again. Napalm is only good against downed people same as Firewall. Firebreath is useless, only good drakes are Marsh and River. Only one you have a point on is Prestige if you want if you can count but you have to know if he has PU or not for that to even work.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

More like I already listed the good ones and you listed everything else that applies burning with a cast time.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

More like I already listed the good ones and you listed everything else that applies burning with a cast time.

I listed all of them that were reasonably avoidable. Which happens to include all but two with a cast time (Fan of Fire and Ring of Fire, FYI, both at 1/4 second cast). Which only leaves out, like, 3 skills total that apply burning.

Yes, I left out flame trap and bonfire, both of which are easy to avoid. Same with Combustive Shot. Both are easy to avoid, but since you have a fetish with standing on point regardless of whether or not it’s in your best interest, I figure that, for you, they would fall under the “not reasonably avoidable” category.

I’ll revise my description of your argument:

“Burning is OP because it’s unavoidable, even though all but 5 skills that apply burning in the entire game are quite able to be avoided by the average player and of those remaining five, only two are any good for burning damage, and only one of those two is likely to be used more than once in a fight.”

I have that right? Because that’s a pretty succinct summary of what you’ve been saying.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

More like I already listed the good ones and you listed everything else that applies burning with a cast time.

I listed all of them that were reasonably avoidable. Which happens to include all but two with a cast time (Fan of Fire and Ring of Fire, FYI, both at 1/4 second cast). Which only leaves out, like, 3 skills total that apply burning.

Yes, I left out flame trap and bonfire, both of which are easy to avoid. Same with Combustive Shot. Both are easy to avoid, but since you have a fetish with standing on point regardless of whether or not it’s in your best interest, I figure that, for you, they would fall under the “not reasonably avoidable” category.

I’ll revise my description of your argument:

“Burning is OP because it’s unavoidable, even though all but 5 skills that apply burning in the entire game are quite able to be avoided by the average player and of those remaining five, only two are any good for burning damage, and only one of those two is likely to be used more than once in a fight.”

I have that right? Because that’s a pretty succinct summary of what you’ve been saying.

Good burn skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue_of_Justice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge's_Intervention
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Flame_Axe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamethrower
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expeditious_Spirit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bonfire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_field#Combo_effects_by_finisher

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

Honestly, I did not even know that Magnetic Aura could “reflect” grenade. Just to be sure, I’ll test it when I’ll be able to. To be honest, I’ve never perceived a difference with or without the magnetic aura against grenades. It was definitively not helping when Grenadier was bugged at june 23.

Alerie Despins

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

If that’s good, I am the president of the United States.

Alerie Despins

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Honestly, I did not even know that Magnetic Aura could “reflect” grenade. Just to be sure, I’ll test it when I’ll be able to. To be honest, I’ve never perceived a difference with or without the magnetic aura against grenades. It was definitively not helping when Grenadier was bugged at june 23.

Magnetic Aura won’t help you against any that impact the ground, but any that are still in flight when they strike you will bounce back.

Plus, that post was really directed to glaphen. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

If that’s good, I am the president of the United States.

For a condition build yes it is, gives a leap every 15 seconds for Fire Shield and 180 condition damage with multiple burning skills.

Trait’s, skill, no difference, you could have listed them in the possible to dodge list but oh wait they can’t be. Burning Speed is on dagger, dagger is a good weapon. Spirit Weapons are amazing for burning, 10k health and spam 5 second duration burning on every hit, hammer hit’s 3 times and it’s 3rd hit knockbacks and it can knockdown for 9 seconds out of it’s 30 second life time. Balth runes go on any burning based build, 45% condition duration. You listed the crappy skills, Napalm only works on downed people, Incendiary Ammo and the Streamlined Kits trait is the only reason to take it.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Here is the thing. You are pretty much forced into running a build to counter condis which may or may not actually counter condis while having yourself exposed to spike. Now this is actually pretty fair. The problem is the builds that run condi are pretty durable vs everything. It makes things strange. There are additionally bunker builds that have the same caveat durable vs everything.

At this point I can play burst but having to deal with rangers, and necros just ruins the fun for me but at the same time vs most condi builds I am perfectly fine.

The question is do we go back to a burst meta, a tanky/sustain meta, a bunker meta. The one thing about the condi meta is that it can be countered for the whole team on point. Thee problem is you are playing lottery as if you have a person willing to do it.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

People are going to complain no matter what builds are popular. According to this forum, the only acceptable PvP meta is the one where you’re not allowed to attack the other team at all.

Another nerf condi thread

in PvP

Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

People are going to complain no matter what builds are popular. According to this forum, the only acceptable PvP meta is the one where you’re not allowed to attack the other team at all.

^ this…and well burning is giving a horrible perception of conditions being op, when really most other conditions are terrible.

A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.