Vials Maize Balm Exploit(Halloween) 2014
Locked out of JP (Wintersday) 2015
they are essentially unplayeable
That’s what everyone thought with Elementalist after their nerf for Season 4. But now they’re still meta. We should wait and see how they do in tournaments and see if they can take a place on enough teams and still perform well, like with Ele after the nerfs.
I thought Eles were nerfed into the ground, but turns out they’re still extremely viable at top tier play. I’m sure in the end, Revs will still be viable when played well. When played poorly, like most Revs were allowed to do because they were so OP, they’ll be crushed, just like a poorly played profession should be.
That’s what everyone thought with Elementalist after their nerf for Season 4. But now they’re still meta. We should wait and see how they do in tournaments and see if they can take a place on enough teams and still perform well, like with Ele after the nerfs.
I thought Eles were nerfed into the ground, but turns out they’re still extremely viable at top tier play. I’m sure in the end, Revs will still be viable when played well. When played poorly, like most Revs were allowed to do because they were so OP, they’ll be crushed, just like a poorly played profession should be.
I doubt that.
They are practically useless in most situations. The only time they could be used is for cleaving stomps, but that only works if your team is good in the first place. A warrior is far better in terms of damage and survivability that taking a revenant doesn’t make any sense.
(edited by Chase.8415)
When played poorly, like most Revs were allowed to do because they were so OP, they’ll be crushed, just like a poorly played profession should be.
Like a poorly played DH.
oh wait.
Well, wait until balance changes come at the beginning of a new season. I doubt that posting threads like these will make devs hurry out their balance patch.
Oh and just so you know, they probably look at statistics of ranked PvP and judge whether something sucks or not based on that. Not forums, which is a great thing by the way.
dunno if class with 13x dodge in row and 10 sec of block 2 heals,needs some buffs…
its ok,just permadodge and wait for s2-3
they are essentially unplayeable
I’m not seeing the problem.
In fact we’re living in the post fixed Rev era right now.
This thread is backwards.
dunno if class with 13x dodge in row and 10 sec of block 2 heals,needs some buffs…
its ok,just permadodge and wait for s2-3
if it would only deal damage.. the heals are useless btw when the opponent knows what to do
Revs are fine, it’s other classes that need to be toned down
When played poorly, like most Revs were allowed to do because they were so OP, they’ll be crushed, just like a poorly played profession should be.
Like a poorly played DH.
oh wait.
I know right? No one ever said Revs weren’t really powerful, but they never had a low skill floor and ceiling like the said example, DH.
Revs are fine, it’s other classes that need to be toned down
At least I could agree with this. Every single other profession needs to be toned down but then you have threads like the thief one where it is being defended mindlessly.
they are essentially unplayeable
I’m not seeing the problem.
In fact we’re living in the post fixed Rev era right now.
This thread is backwards.
Classic member of a PvP community.
(edited by XxsdgxX.8109)
back then, revs was good 1v1, good at team fights, could potentially survive forever 1vX with a glass amulet better than some classes on menders and even one shot other glassy classes having one of the best cleave. compared to other classes this seemed OP
Revenant was just OP and people got used to it. You see the same with dragonhunters now. Everyone is playing it because it requires less skills but the reward is great. I am a big fan of revenantd and I wasn’t happy about the last update neither, but now I accept it and I still am able to kill almost every class in the game.
Nope because most of the playerbase is still salty as kitten. Too lazy to learn the new class and it hurts me really bad, nerf it now! See it all the time in my guild.
(edited by BeepBoopBop.5403)
they are essentially unplayeable
“when are you going to buff rock, it loses to paper all the time, it’s unplayable” — rock
…but, seriously, if you actually want even the remotest chance of action on this, try two things:
One, assume the developers are not idiots, and are actively working on balance. Make concrete observations with some degree of data about what is falling short, and concrete suggestions about how to improve it.
Two, don’t use clickbait titles for your post, because it makes it hard to take your suggestions seriously, when you include some.
Nope because most of the playerbase is still salty as kitten. Too lazy to learn the new class and it hurts me really bad, nerf it now! See it all the time in my guild.
I said this long ago when HoT was still recent, lol it’s something that always plagues games with PvP (specially MMORPGs), people in any game are never happy to have to learn and adapt to new things so they just cry loud.
they are essentially unplayeable
“when are you going to buff rock, it loses to paper all the time, it’s unplayable” — rock
…but, seriously, if you actually want even the remotest chance of action on this, try two things:
One, assume the developers are not idiots, and are actively working on balance. Make concrete observations with some degree of data about what is falling short, and concrete suggestions about how to improve it.
Two, don’t use clickbait titles for your post, because it makes it hard to take your suggestions seriously, when you include some.
Seems to me when Rev is released looking like this, you need to chop off two of his arms just to bring him into line.
#fixrev2017
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
(edited by BeepBoopBop.5403)
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
It has horrible damage because it was always designed to be a support weapon.
Did no-one here ever watch the developer chats on twitch during the development of HoT and the revenant as a class?
Staff was designed to be used with ventari with a theme of peaceful combat, the auto attack gives those orbs as their way (I’ll admit I always thought it wasn’t great design) of providing healing. The block that also blinds fits with the theme, AoE heal and condi cleanse and then the powerful CC to push enemies from allies. Even the bizarre number 2 skill was designed with defense in mind by applying weakness and being a flip over to “a powerful attack” to ward people off from attacking (yeah I thought that was a BS reason too).
Granted that powerful attack is laughable at 1.5 modifier when the attack is 1.0 but this was the intention with staff, it was never intended to be used as a DPS weapon.
You’re using the most offensive heal Shiro which relies on lifestealing but does extra damage and it heals for nearly 6.5k when it all hits, not exactly low. The Glint heal has the capacity to be a full heal if timed right and here’s the thing, you get 2 heals, yes you get 2 heals instead of one both on the same cool down as what most classes get.
Revenant is starting to become a properly balanced class, the stun break on pain absorption should have been from the start. Now if they made Jalis worth using and sorted out the ventari skills it might actually turn into a really nice class, once it’s out of 2nd beta.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
It has horrible damage because it was always designed to be a support weapon.
Did no-one here ever watch the developer chats on twitch during the development of HoT and the revenant as a class?
Staff was designed to be used with ventari with a theme of peaceful combat, the auto attack gives those orbs as their way (I’ll admit I always thought it wasn’t great design) of providing healing. The block that also blinds fits with the theme, AoE heal and condi cleanse and then the powerful CC to push enemies from allies. Even the bizarre number 2 skill was designed with defense in mind by applying weakness and being a flip over to “a powerful attack” to ward people off from attacking (yeah I thought that was a BS reason too).
Granted that powerful attack is laughable at 1.5 modifier when the attack is 1.0 but this was the intention with staff, it was never intended to be used as a DPS weapon.
You’re using the most offensive heal Shiro which relies on lifestealing but does extra damage and it heals for nearly 6.5k when it all hits, not exactly low. The Glint heal has the capacity to be a full heal if timed right and here’s the thing, you get 2 heals, yes you get 2 heals instead of one both on the same cool down as what most classes get.
Revenant is starting to become a properly balanced class, the stun break on pain absorption should have been from the start. Now if they made Jalis worth using and sorted out the ventari skills it might actually turn into a really nice class, once it’s out of 2nd beta.
Just bad design on healing orbs? THEY’RE TOTALLY NEGLIGIBLE. The heal on staff 4 is horrible and extremely telegraphed, only really used for condi clear since oh yeah the class has virtually none! Staff 2 is still useless. Staff 3 is 50% worse at being available for defense. Where exactly are these incredible support/defensive skills on staff??? Even the auto hits like a wet noodle when full zerk.
Both heals are still TOTALLY DENIABLE when you’re playing against someone with half a kittening brain. Shiro heal even got nerfed with daggers being used when hits are evaded/blocked. I can trait full glass with marauder amulet and tickle people to death lol. The only thing keeping revenant relevent is AoE CCs for rez denial and quickness sword auto. What a useful class that dies to the very mention of condition damage and thieves.
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
Bad synergy between skills (which is especially noticeable on Rev admittedly) doesn’t mean that you should excuse blatantly OP skill designs. SotM was way too kittening good. It did everything, and it excelled at everything it did. It was just too kittening good, it deserved a hard nerf.
well reason ele still viable because every class got nerf.
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
Bad synergy between skills (which is especially noticeable on Rev admittedly) doesn’t mean that you should excuse blatantly OP skill designs. SotM was way too kittening good. It did everything, and it excelled at everything it did. It was just too kittening good, it deserved a hard nerf.
Yeah maybe when it fully connected. Which, against a competent player that can tell when you’re positioning for SotM, never happens. They either dodge it because its EZEZEZ to predict, or they strafe enough to kitten it up and have it hit only 3k pre-nerf.
But go on and tell me about how you sat still in front of a staff rev and got one shot
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
It has horrible damage because it was always designed to be a support weapon.
Did no-one here ever watch the developer chats on twitch during the development of HoT and the revenant as a class?
Staff was designed to be used with ventari with a theme of peaceful combat, the auto attack gives those orbs as their way (I’ll admit I always thought it wasn’t great design) of providing healing. The block that also blinds fits with the theme, AoE heal and condi cleanse and then the powerful CC to push enemies from allies. Even the bizarre number 2 skill was designed with defense in mind by applying weakness and being a flip over to “a powerful attack” to ward people off from attacking (yeah I thought that was a BS reason too).
Granted that powerful attack is laughable at 1.5 modifier when the attack is 1.0 but this was the intention with staff, it was never intended to be used as a DPS weapon.
You’re using the most offensive heal Shiro which relies on lifestealing but does extra damage and it heals for nearly 6.5k when it all hits, not exactly low. The Glint heal has the capacity to be a full heal if timed right and here’s the thing, you get 2 heals, yes you get 2 heals instead of one both on the same cool down as what most classes get.
Revenant is starting to become a properly balanced class, the stun break on pain absorption should have been from the start. Now if they made Jalis worth using and sorted out the ventari skills it might actually turn into a really nice class, once it’s out of 2nd beta.
Just bad design on healing orbs? THEY’RE TOTALLY NEGLIGIBLE. The heal on staff 4 is horrible and extremely telegraphed, only really used for condi clear since oh yeah the class has virtually none! Staff 2 is still useless. Staff 3 is 50% worse at being available for defense. Where exactly are these incredible support/defensive skills on staff??? Even the auto hits like a wet noodle when full zerk.
Both heals are still TOTALLY DENIABLE when you’re playing against someone with half a kittening brain. Shiro heal even got nerfed with daggers being used when hits are evaded/blocked. I can trait full glass with marauder amulet and tickle people to death lol. The only thing keeping revenant relevent is AoE CCs for rez denial and quickness sword auto. What a useful class that dies to the very mention of condition damage and thieves.
Again, support weapon, why are you complaining it doesn’t do high damage when it was never designed to do high damage. You’re literally complaining you can’t hammer with a screw driver at this point.
If those heals are so bad there’s nothing stopping you switching to a legend that has a more consistent heal.
All I hear is crying about how all the silly overpowered stuff about rev finally got sorted out and how you can’t instagib people anymore with phase traverse into surge of the mists.
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
Bad synergy between skills (which is especially noticeable on Rev admittedly) doesn’t mean that you should excuse blatantly OP skill designs. SotM was way too kittening good. It did everything, and it excelled at everything it did. It was just too kittening good, it deserved a hard nerf.
Yeah maybe when it fully connected. Which, against a competent player that can tell when you’re positioning for SotM, never happens. They either dodge it because its EZEZEZ to predict, or they strafe enough to kitten it up and have it hit only 3k pre-nerf.
But go on and tell me about how you sat still in front of a staff rev and got one shot
I didn’t, and I wasn’t going to. But go on, ad hominem attacks really make your case stronger here bud. Keep trying to deflect and hoping that you will deceive people into thinking that a skill that simultaneously did high damage, evaded for an entire second,and was a strong CC on a 20 second CD was in any way balanced.
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
Bad synergy between skills (which is especially noticeable on Rev admittedly) doesn’t mean that you should excuse blatantly OP skill designs. SotM was way too kittening good. It did everything, and it excelled at everything it did. It was just too kittening good, it deserved a hard nerf.
Yeah maybe when it fully connected. Which, against a competent player that can tell when you’re positioning for SotM, never happens. They either dodge it because its EZEZEZ to predict, or they strafe enough to kitten it up and have it hit only 3k pre-nerf.
But go on and tell me about how you sat still in front of a staff rev and got one shot
I didn’t, and I wasn’t going to. But go on, ad hominem attacks really make your case stronger here bud. Keep trying to deflect and hoping that you will deceive people into thinking that a skill that simultaneously did high damage, evaded for an entire second,and was a strong CC on a 20 second CD was in any way balanced.
“Strong CC” please 1 stack of stability = your SotM was useless in terms of CC and damage because of how stack removal works. You still did not at all address my point of SotM being incredibly easy to dodge if you knew anything about the class.
(edited by BeepBoopBop.5403)
Classic member of a PvP community.
lol classic Rev player. Sorry but a defensive/support weapon being able to take off 50% of a persons health if not more while CCing them and being an evade frame is flat out broken.
This game used to be about risk and reward, when you attacked you would be vulnerable to being attacked. When you defended yourself you couldn’t usually attack.
HoT threw all these out of the window and it’s high time we returned to skills and builds having proper risk and reward.
Lol that same weapon has horrible damage otherwise, a terrible “heal” on auto attack, a block that has been nerfed twice for +50% CD compared to the original, and the easiest to interrupt “heal” in the game.
Revenant still has no condi clear and extremely deniable heals. Both Infuse Light and Enchanted Daggers heal less than 2k on activation. Seems pretty high risk to me. But yeah go on crying more
It has horrible damage because it was always designed to be a support weapon.
Did no-one here ever watch the developer chats on twitch during the development of HoT and the revenant as a class?
Staff was designed to be used with ventari with a theme of peaceful combat, the auto attack gives those orbs as their way (I’ll admit I always thought it wasn’t great design) of providing healing. The block that also blinds fits with the theme, AoE heal and condi cleanse and then the powerful CC to push enemies from allies. Even the bizarre number 2 skill was designed with defense in mind by applying weakness and being a flip over to “a powerful attack” to ward people off from attacking (yeah I thought that was a BS reason too).
Granted that powerful attack is laughable at 1.5 modifier when the attack is 1.0 but this was the intention with staff, it was never intended to be used as a DPS weapon.
You’re using the most offensive heal Shiro which relies on lifestealing but does extra damage and it heals for nearly 6.5k when it all hits, not exactly low. The Glint heal has the capacity to be a full heal if timed right and here’s the thing, you get 2 heals, yes you get 2 heals instead of one both on the same cool down as what most classes get.
Revenant is starting to become a properly balanced class, the stun break on pain absorption should have been from the start. Now if they made Jalis worth using and sorted out the ventari skills it might actually turn into a really nice class, once it’s out of 2nd beta.
Just bad design on healing orbs? THEY’RE TOTALLY NEGLIGIBLE. The heal on staff 4 is horrible and extremely telegraphed, only really used for condi clear since oh yeah the class has virtually none! Staff 2 is still useless. Staff 3 is 50% worse at being available for defense. Where exactly are these incredible support/defensive skills on staff??? Even the auto hits like a wet noodle when full zerk.
Both heals are still TOTALLY DENIABLE when you’re playing against someone with half a kittening brain. Shiro heal even got nerfed with daggers being used when hits are evaded/blocked. I can trait full glass with marauder amulet and tickle people to death lol. The only thing keeping revenant relevent is AoE CCs for rez denial and quickness sword auto. What a useful class that dies to the very mention of condition damage and thieves.
Again, support weapon, why are you complaining it doesn’t do high damage when it was never designed to do high damage. You’re literally complaining you can’t hammer with a screw driver at this point.
If those heals are so bad there’s nothing stopping you switching to a legend that has a more consistent heal.
All I hear is crying about how all the silly overpowered stuff about rev finally got sorted out and how you can’t instagib people anymore with phase traverse into surge of the mists.
It wasn’t designed to do high damage, it has kitten support, so what’s it for then?
There’s everything stopping me from switching to another legend, the rest are kitten. Go make Ventari/Mallyx meta.
Being instagibbed by Phase Traverse → SotM (which btw uses all available energy on swap) is like complaining that you died to Test of Faith by walking through it over and over. In other words, no one with any competence is a victim.
All I hear is REVENANT WAS OP LIKE 3 SEASONS AGO OMG THEY DESERVE THIS!
(edited by BeepBoopBop.5403)
Wow people, please show me how really powerful Rev is right now, seems like you guys know alot just by theorycrafting (most likely didn’t even play the class for more than a couple of hours) And it’s funny cause the numbers always talk, Rev has always been one of the least played classes and now it’s even worse. ANET even acknowledged that it is one of the hardest classes to master but still you keep bashing and flaming any person who even dared to main a Rev.
Now, is it in an actual good place right now? Yeah maybe, after they fix the plague of bugs it has and after they tune down every other single profession, if anything the only exception that would be fair is Ele.
Is it viable (against actual competent players)? Yeah if you are among the best world players I guess (another reason you shouldn’t bring tournament numbers here), so in other words the risk/reward ratio is stupid unfair. It’s High Risk/Medium(at best)Reward.
And to address staff being a “support” weapon even though it has terrible… everything except for what was number 5 and maybe number 3…
Yeah that’s why they nerfed once again the block and still haven’t done anything about the terrible heals, high energy costs and long cast time of number 4.
Fun fact: Did you guys know that Mallyx so amazing stun break has a casting time? Claps
(edited by XxsdgxX.8109)
I can agree on SoTM being stupidly powerful and on the need of nerfing it before other aspects of the weapon could be improved, but sticking to the conceptual design and purpose of any weapon or legend is a very dangerous path.
Staff was used because it provided decent defensive utility and allowed for a really strong disrupting and damaging move with SoTM. It’s still useful after the nerf, but if we keep pushing it towards its support concept, we could easily reach a point where it becomes a worse option than slotting a second off-hand and camping sword the whole time, effectively making the spec unable to fully capitalize on the weapon swap.
Conceptually, the revenant was presented as a class that could jump between “roles”, and we all know that’s something which will never be possible. First, because the energy mechanic makes continuous legend swapping pretty much mandatory, and then, because different “roles” would almost surely require different amulets/runes (which is not possible) and trait allocations.
The only way to make the idea somewhat true would be to choose a hybrid amulet and split the traits between both roles, which leaves a character that’s necessarily suboptimal all the time. If a character built like that works, then the class will produce a monster whenever it is specialized and/or some kind of sinergy between conceptually different tools is found.
IMHO not only the balance approach shouldn’t try to conceptually specialize different legends, weapons and traitlines, but actually reinforce their sinergies even if that requires nerfing the tools on their main conceptual purpose.
Revenants were mechanically broken from the start… like, who creates high damage + high evade + high modility, on a single button press… on a relatively short cd? The class’s mechanics was, and still are, ridiculous.
It comes down to this. The window of opportunity to counter such Rev abilities is very slim for most classes. To top it off, their Ability Management is so high that there’s an apparent skill gap between Bronze & Legendary players… it’s why they receive nerf bats.. it’s why Revs are hard to balance.
Revs do not need buffs. Nerf thief, mesmer and warrior and rev becomes viable again. Rev is still good, just kept down by how broken thief and mesmer are
I can agree on SoTM being stupidly powerful and on the need of nerfing it before other aspects of the weapon could be improved, but sticking to the conceptual design and purpose of any weapon or legend is a very dangerous path.
Staff was used because it provided decent defensive utility and allowed for a really strong disrupting and damaging move with SoTM. It’s still useful after the nerf, but if we keep pushing it towards its support concept, we could easily reach a point where it becomes a worse option than slotting a second off-hand and camping sword the whole time, effectively making the spec unable to fully capitalize on the weapon swap.
Conceptually, the revenant was presented as a class that could jump between “roles”, and we all know that’s something which will never be possible. First, because the energy mechanic makes continuous legend swapping pretty much mandatory, and then, because different “roles” would almost surely require different amulets/runes (which is not possible) and trait allocations.
The only way to make the idea somewhat true would be to choose a hybrid amulet and split the traits between both roles, which leaves a character that’s necessarily suboptimal all the time. If a character built like that works, then the class will produce a monster whenever it is specialized and/or some kind of sinergy between conceptually different tools is found.IMHO not only the balance approach shouldn’t try to conceptually specialize different legends, weapons and traitlines, but actually reinforce their sinergies even if that requires nerfing the tools on their main conceptual purpose.
This all stems from the way revenant was designed from the start, without weapon swap. When they then added weapon swap they forgot to rebalance the weapons and sort out some of the other glaring issues.
I agree that staff could do with some changes to allow it to heal properly as the orbs thing is silly as well as punishing sweep. However the staff is not entirely a bad weapon, nice low cool down block and blind, good CC, blast with condition cleanse and heal on an equally low cool down. Ventari and Jalis need some changes too, the tablet doesn’t really work properly as a mechanic and Jalis could do with losing the taunt for a better skill to be honest.
When resistance is made to not be a complete counter to conditions then mallyx will need changing as well. I agree with the last point sort of but I don’t have any problems with having a weapon set being more defense and support based but not doing lots of damage. If I wanted damage I’d pick a weapon set where damage is its main purpose.
I agree with the last point sort of but I don’t have any problems with having a weapon set being more defense and support based but not doing lots of damage. If I wanted damage I’d pick a weapon set where damage is its main purpose.
Having a more defensive/supportive weapon set is not a problem. The “problem” is having to pick it because there’s no better alternative to fill that slot and it arises, as you said, because the class was initially designed without weapon swap.
A pure power revenant will never pick a mace because it deals negligible direct damage and has nearly zero utility and will think twice the hammer option because it’s a death trap for anything but AoEing from distance while unnoticed, so it’s either the staff (a defensive/supportive weapon) or a second offhand to couple with the sword (which has the obvious drawback of providing just 2 out of 5 skills off CD).
The low amout of weapon choices coupled with their degree of specialization is a very big problem balance wise because only the specs which can make some decent use of the second, conceptually unrelated, weapon set can prevail.
If someone tries to make a supportive build (assuming a not terrible ventari legend), what can he pick as his second weapon set? Hammer? Sword (just because it can go along with the shield for minimal support)?
The problem will also become only bigger over time. Whatever the new expansion brings to us will dictate what becomes viable (it’s probably going to happen anyways based on the insane and completely unnecesary power creep HoT brought) because, unless we get another gray-ish legend (a CC based one, for example) featuring another offhand, there will be one “role” with much better legend/weapon sinergy than the others (and there’s a limit to how many gray, general purpose legends and weapons can be designed).
I agree with the last point sort of but I don’t have any problems with having a weapon set being more defense and support based but not doing lots of damage. If I wanted damage I’d pick a weapon set where damage is its main purpose.
Having a more defensive/supportive weapon set is not a problem. The “problem” is having to pick it because there’s no better alternative to fill that slot and it arises, as you said, because the class was initially designed without weapon swap.
A pure power revenant will never pick a mace because it deals negligible direct damage and has nearly zero utility and will think twice the hammer option because it’s a death trap for anything but AoEing from distance while unnoticed, so it’s either the staff (a defensive/supportive weapon) or a second offhand to couple with the sword (which has the obvious drawback of providing just 2 out of 5 skills off CD).The low amout of weapon choices coupled with their degree of specialization is a very big problem balance wise because only the specs which can make some decent use of the second, conceptually unrelated, weapon set can prevail.
If someone tries to make a supportive build (assuming a not terrible ventari legend), what can he pick as his second weapon set? Hammer? Sword (just because it can go along with the shield for minimal support)?
The problem will also become only bigger over time. Whatever the new expansion brings to us will dictate what becomes viable (it’s probably going to happen anyways based on the insane and completely unnecesary power creep HoT brought) because, unless we get another gray-ish legend (a CC based one, for example) featuring another offhand, there will be one “role” with much better legend/weapon sinergy than the others (and there’s a limit to how many gray, general purpose legends and weapons can be designed).
Yeah I know that problem, other classes have it sometimes as well but it is very obvious on rev. Staff however isn’t a terrible weapon though and the auto coefficients aren’t lower than other support/defensive options on other classes. If it had no defense and was only a healing to others weapon then it would be an extremely bad weapon but I just can’t call it that given the 3-5 skills and how useful they can be to power builds to add much needed survivability.
I just think the orbs should be replaced with a 130 range AoE heal and adjust it’s scaling with healing power to 0.25 then replace staff 2 with debilitating slam that applies weakness.
I also think rev needs a 2 handed condition damage weapon (said this in the beta) possibly another power main hand as rev has some pretty decent off hands already for a power build. I just don’t think staff is half as bad as everyone makes out, it’s certainly a better option than what some classes have on their core weapons.
I did play Guardian the first month of S5 due condi Rev was destroyed in October.
After finishing the ascendant chest rewards, I did start to play with power Rev and soon my rating began to fall: not having stability, lacking condition cleanses and any kind of flexibility in the utilities took a toll.
But after a time of adaptation, I’m now having fun and some degree of success playing Rev: the class demands skill and punishes heavily every mistake you have, so makes you play tense and aware instead of bored and apathic. Was a pleasure seing Jonasdon crushing every class (including Mes) with his Rev in the 1 vs 1 ESL casted by Jebro a week ago…
What ANet should fix in Rev are the the bugs, the lack of underwater skills, and to revert the Phase Traversal cost. Also, the class is in a very poor stance in the WvW raid role.
One, assume the developers are not idiots, and are actively working on balance.
Given this games track record, why on earth would i assume that?.
O_o. I’m sorry. I kind of assumed that someone who though the game was bad, and being changed by people who would only make it worse, would be bright enough to maybe … IDK … play something else?
I mean, seriously, if that is your honest opinion of the state of the game, and the likely future changes, why would you stay? Do you like the pain that much?
Anyway, I’d suggest you assume it because it’s both true, and reasonable.
multiple ESL players streaming have said rev is perfectly viable. i think highly of their opinions much more than your average forum user.
multiple ESL players streaming have said rev is perfectly viable. i think highly of their opinions much more than your average forum user.
Yes, because the “elite” 1% represents what the majority of the player base needs or wants. May be if they started listening to the majority of the player base instead of this supposed pros, the game would not be as dead as it is.
multiple ESL players streaming have said rev is perfectly viable. i think highly of their opinions much more than your average forum user.
What ESL players say offhand isn’t as valuable as you think. I’m sure you saw the forum thread where Helseth and Sindrener were arguing about thief; tbh while Helseth’s comments were true in the realm of ESL tournament play, Sindrener’s perspective was more relevant to regular ranked games. Thief isn’t played the same way and doesn’t face the same challenges in those 2 separate environments. And this was when they were both trying to flesh out smart-sounding arguments, not just thinking out loud on their stream where there’s nobody arguing with them.
On top of that general note, what does “perfectly viable” even mean? You’re not positively contributing to this conversation by pretending to quote multiple people whose opinions may or may not matter, I do not believe that they all said “Rev is perfectly viable” and just left it at that. Rev got all nerfs and no buffs outside of the Mallyx stunbreak, and it’s been that way after every patch. Rev is still around but top players are favoring it less and less as it’s now failing to prove its superiority at anything. Why play a class that barely passes the mark of what’s considered viable?
You have to be top tier player to squeeze the best performance out of a Rev (power). If you love Rev and are good at it fine. But generally the average player will get much better performance from any of the other classes like DH, War, Mes, Druid.
multiple ESL players streaming have said rev is perfectly viable. i think highly of their opinions much more than your average forum user.
Noone of them mains rev though. I also see Frae, who mained rev, playing dh/thief this season.
If power rev is still good in top level play, then it sounds like the problem isn’t with shiro and glint. Sounds like ventari,mallyx, and jalis need to be buffed.
So people don’t agitate themselves with wild accusations of bias, I will note that I’ve played a few hundred games on Revenant since its release. It’s not my main, but I played it a fair bit over a couple seasons.
Here’s what I expect happened to a lot of players: When Rev was released, it was overtuned — certainly not as OP as I’ve seen happen with new release classes in other games, but it was definitely stronger than most professions. It could do a little of everything and it could do it all very well. Don’t forget that the S1 condi build had arguably the highest sustain of any non-bunker and it did so with a completely offensive amulet. They had to remove Durability runes from PvP mostly because of Rev.
Rev was very strong, and that made it kind of easy to play. You didn’t necessarily do well if you didn’t know what you were doing, but you could make a lot of mistakes and still recover. Put a rev in the right hands and the damage pressure was hard to top.
Rev started receiving much-needed nerfs, and suddenly some people who thought they were very good at the profession found themselves unable to perform. The core mechanics could no longer carry you; you had to make the right choices. They didn’t see it that way; they saw it as the profession being nerfed into the ground — i.e., the standard finger-pointing of the medium.
I’d say that right now rev’s major liability is compositional dependence, but that isn’t unique to rev. There are certain matchups that are just bad news, and the more you solo queue, the more likely you are to be stuck in a bad 1v1 to try to save the game.
I’ll say here as everywhere: Rev was obviously designed around having one weapon set. The addition of the swap was based on uninformed feedback. You could undo a lot of the nerfs and create some real choice and balance if rev only had one weapon set.
And to the guy complaining about there being a cast time on the Mallyx stunbreak: Off the top of my head I can come up with about a half dozen stunbreaks in the game that have a cast time. The stunbreak is instant and always happens. If you are disabled again while the skill is being cast, the skill goes on full cd. This doesn’t matter to Pain Absorption because it has no cd.
I’ll say here as everywhere: Rev was obviously designed around having one weapon set. The addition of the swap was based on uninformed feedback. You could undo a lot of the nerfs and create some real choice and balance if rev only had one weapon set.
I said the same thing close to the release of HoT and people hated that I pointed it out. But its true. Rev was designed around no weapon swapping, so its weapons are able to do too much. They weren’t brought back in line when Anet decided to allow weapon swapping on Rev.
I’ll say here as everywhere: Rev was obviously designed around having one weapon set. The addition of the swap was based on uninformed feedback. You could undo a lot of the nerfs and create some real choice and balance if rev only had one weapon set.
I said the same thing close to the release of HoT and people hated that I pointed it out. But its true. Rev was designed around no weapon swapping, so its weapons are able to do too much. They weren’t brought back in line when Anet decided to allow weapon swapping on Rev.
Based on that logic you must think that Rev was designed to not to be able to figth underwater, because Herald (Glint) has no underwater skills and neither Shiro or Mallyx have them (underwater Shiro and Mallyx skills are the same as on ground, so we must asume that the developers didn’t mean the Rev to be able to swim… they added them in the last second when they figured out that some slots were empty… ).
Rev was rushed, but no problem: only took 4 years to ANet to fix the Guardian sword.
I’ll say here as everywhere: Rev was obviously designed around having one weapon set. The addition of the swap was based on uninformed feedback. You could undo a lot of the nerfs and create some real choice and balance if rev only had one weapon set.
I said the same thing close to the release of HoT and people hated that I pointed it out. But its true. Rev was designed around no weapon swapping, so its weapons are able to do too much. They weren’t brought back in line when Anet decided to allow weapon swapping on Rev.
Based on that logic you must think that Rev was designed to not to be able to figth underwater, because Herald (Glint) has no underwater skills and neither Shiro or Mallyx have them (underwater Shiro and Mallyx skills are the same as on ground, so we must asume that the developers didn’t mean the Rev to be able to swim… they added them in the last second when they figured out that some slots were empty… ).
Rev was rushed, but no problem: only took 4 years to ANet to fix the Guardian sword.
Fun fact: Mallyx underwater was different to on land as it used an older beta version under water where some of the utilities would self inflicted conditions. Wasn’t changed for months after HoT came out either…
I’ll say here as everywhere: Rev was obviously designed around having one weapon set. The addition of the swap was based on uninformed feedback. You could undo a lot of the nerfs and create some real choice and balance if rev only had one weapon set.
I said the same thing close to the release of HoT and people hated that I pointed it out. But its true. Rev was designed around no weapon swapping, so its weapons are able to do too much. They weren’t brought back in line when Anet decided to allow weapon swapping on Rev.
Based on that logic you must think that Rev was designed to not to be able to figth underwater, because Herald (Glint) has no underwater skills and neither Shiro or Mallyx have them (underwater Shiro and Mallyx skills are the same as on ground, so we must asume that the developers didn’t mean the Rev to be able to swim… they added them in the last second when they figured out that some slots were empty… ).
Rev was rushed, but no problem: only took 4 years to ANet to fix the Guardian sword.
Designed to fight underwater? Hell no. Just look at the game and how much underwater content it has, and how much came with HoT and LWS3. The devs have all but abandoned underwater content (thank god, I hate it), so its no surprise that Rev wasn’t designed with underwater content in mind. And its clear, as you’ve seen, that underwater skills for Rev were shoehorned in at the last minute. ANet either forgot about it, or it was the lowest priority on the list of things to do while making the class. Both of which point to the class as a whole not being designed around underwater combat.
Revert all nerfs. Remove weapon swap and work from there. Cause srsly wep swap was not needed, it didnt solve any issue, quite the opposite – it caused many issues.
Locking people into a single weapon set was only acceptable for elementalists and engineers because they had ways to get around the limit of weapon skills (every elementalist weapon has skills for every attunement, and engineers have an entire suite of kits that give them a variety of weapon skills. Elementalists have conjures that do the same thing, as well, even if they’re mediocre). Revenants don’t (an extra bar of fixed utility skills doesn’t offer nearly the same flexibility, for starters), and that’s why people wanted weapon swap for them.
(revenant also desperately needs a ranged condition weapon, but one problem at a time I guess)
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