Guild Wars 2

http://i.imgur.com/b0SyDGz.jpg

Here is some advice if Arenanet actually reads these forums like they say they do. Why are these numbers so high? Well, it factors into a lot of things, mainly percentage scaling. If you take a class that has high crit coefficients, give them a bunch of FLAT DAMAGE % buffs through runes / traits, it will scale too far. Same goes for % on crit, but not as much.

You should know, that when WoW’s expansionThe Burning Crusade came out Warriors were speccing into Deathwish and Enrage, allowing them to 3 shot anyone. Obviously this was completely out of control, so they buffed warriors elsewhere and completely nerfed the % to 25% from 50%, then in the next xpac, they made sure their damage was up to par, and nerfed it even lower.

Why not balance around other mmos failures and make them your success? Removing % damage runes from pvp and % crit damage and substituting that with all around coefficient buff on non criticals would improve gameplay by a lot.

Toughness, why does it do nothing? Why does this state seem to act like it does not exist? Mind you, this was on a 3k toughness target, so i do believe a shield weilding guardian should not die in 1 second to a thief with daggers.

On the other hand, % scaling is great if its not done with damage. % increases to stats for example, Signet of Judgement reduces the damage you take by 10%, alright that’s getting there, why not make the passive signets that give a measly 90 power/condi/etc give a flat 10% increase to that stat? Or items that give flat % hp gain?

Honestly designing damage around raw % values is kind of lazy, and instead of buffing the coefficients, you make it so any new weapon that gets introduced into the game, or any random spur or might stacks, will make typical builds like this do damage that other people did not know the class could do before.

If you really want to draw attention to spvp, things like this should not even be in a remote realm of possibility.

The attached image happened right as the game started, so the thief had no insane might stacks or anything. Mug also hits me for 6-7k sometimes, which i know is being adressed.

PS: I’m not sure why Quickness is even allowed in spvp. All it does is drive players away. Less I win buttons, more skill.
~ Fx

so if math is correct what did you do in the remaining .7 secs ?

if i can suggest you something without being flamed, i say you should try to play some thief vs thief to learn to be faster.
as a CG thief you die to almost everything. so the faster you are the longer you live.

Shukran.4851:

so if math is correct what did you do in the remaining .7 secs ?

if i can suggest you something without being flamed, i say you should try to play some thief vs thief to learn to be faster.
as a CG thief you die to almost everything. so the faster you are the longer you live.

0.3s might be the right reaction time infront of a PC, but reacting =/= acting, it takes like 0.5s to press the button after realizing you’re gonna get destroyed.. so it makes a 0.8s total to react and act agains’t a good thief.. very small place for mistakes idd

Shukran.4851:

so if math is correct what did you do in the remaining .7 secs ?

You forgot about latency, not a neglible factor with these short time frames.

my favorite part is telling someone to react in .5 seconds. by the time you do youre dead to this.

well I hope that my suggestion have been taken into account.

and practice helps a lot.

edit: i am (or was because i took a break till the big patch pvp) a rank 40 thief and i can tell you that i can stunbreak a good amount of basilisk comboes. still i die to some macro thief, but u can see the difference . and btw it is the game.

Shukran.4851:

so if math is correct what did you do in the remaining .7 secs ?

if i can suggest you something without being flamed, i say you should try to play some thief vs thief to learn to be faster.
as a CG thief you die to almost everything. so the faster you are the longer you live.

0.3 is the average human reaction time for reacting to something like touching something too hot or some silly test where you are just waiting there with your hand over a button waiting for a circle to appear on the screen.

If you are in say hotjoin in the zergfest with 11 other players in the nearby area, thus have your attention split, then having to work out how you can react, if you have endurance left to dodge, do you need to weapon swap to a shield, etc, then add latency and that you are not simply sitting there waiting to defend your attention is partly focused on attacking, trying to keep track of what is goign on, etc, then the reaction time will be far in excess of 0.3 seconds, which is why I have seen every single “pro” player that streams get instagibbed many times by thieves.

Latency is by far the biggest factor. (Depending on where you live)

oh sorry i never talk about hotjoin. and playing against more than 1 thief nowdays is very difficult.
problem is when u play thief and u fight against a tanky team. you feel so useless. (guardian, ranger, double ele, engi)

Shukran.4851:

oh sorry i never talk about hotjoin. and playing against more than 1 thief nowdays is very difficult.
problem is when u play thief and u fight against a tanky team. you feel so useless. (guardian, ranger, double ele, engi)

This was on my Guardian. I didn’t think I needed to use protection when I’m sitting at 19k hp. Then again, why do guardians have such low hp?

Look; That’s the style of thieves. That’s pretty much all they can do. They kill light/medium player styles. That is it.

It’s your nemesis, your counter spec. The game is designed like that, and I have nothing against it (I’m a DPS engineer).

Instead of getting frustrated, try to find a thief, a good one (r30+); And start dueling with him, until you find a window of escape.

Practice, Practice, Practice.

JimmyJazz.7943:

Look; That’s the style of thieves. That’s pretty much all they can do. They kill light/medium player styles. That is it.

It’s your nemesis, your counter spec. The game is designed like that, and I have nothing against it (I’m a DPS engineer).

Instead of getting frustrated, try to find a thief, a good one (r30+); And start dueling with him, until you find a window of escape.

Practice, Practice, Practice.

Thanks for the input but, sorry. This even being possible is horrible balance. give Thieves something else to stay alive or do damage. 4 shotting someone in 1 second isn’t rewarding for the Thief and sure as hell not for the player.

FxyO.8243:

JimmyJazz.7943:

Look; That’s the style of thieves. That’s pretty much all they can do. They kill light/medium player styles. That is it.

It’s your nemesis, your counter spec. The game is designed like that, and I have nothing against it (I’m a DPS engineer).

Instead of getting frustrated, try to find a thief, a good one (r30+); And start dueling with him, until you find a window of escape.

Practice, Practice, Practice.

thanks for the input but, sorry. you do realize that this even being possible is: horrible. balance? give thieves something else to stay alive or do damage. 4 shotting someone in 1 second isnt rewarding for the thief and sure as hell not for the player.

this is what we are asking since release. but reaction time and build available is 2 different arguments.
one is up to devs, one is uo to players.

This topic again… Do you still have problem with 100b wars too?

Staying alive vs thieves is harder then staying alive against other professions like mes/ele who’s burst is much easier to call I’ll give you that.

So what you do is; Find a good thief, and duel him him for an hour or two.. and when you’ve done that you should be able to hit your ohkittenbuttons before the thief manages to instagib you while also yelling at your teammates..

There is a bug right now that prevents dodge rolling after you get basilisk’d though even if you stunbreak… and thieves have no reprocussions for missing/hitting you while you’re invuln as it doesn’t break stealth..

Devs said this would be going away next patch.

Lukin.4061:

This topic again… Do you still have problem with 100b wars too?

So its the same prob right? HB and this thief combo are the same prob…
Why bring Hb to this topic?

Epic Beast.5189:

Lukin.4061:

This topic again… Do you still have problem with 100b wars too?

So its the same prob right? HB and this thief combo are the same prob…
Why bring Hb to this topic?

Yes, it actually is the same problem – a 100b war kills most of people that have just joined pvp, since they have no knowledge of how to counter them. Same goes for BS thief, same goes to almost any glass cannon build.

Lukin.4061:

This topic again… Do you still have problem with 100b wars too?

Sorry not everyone lives in the world of “I hover my finger over my stun break and auto attack”
Stop trolling, and to answer your question, I can see the warrior. Although yes, the same mechanic also applies. Too much damage in one skill, too little elsewhere.

Lukin.4061:

Yes, it actually is the same problem – a 100b war kills most of people that have just joined pvp, since they have no knowledge of how to counter them. Same goes for BS thief, same goes to almost any glass cannon build.

100b takes more than a second to be executed and you can clearly see the warrior bullrushing to you (or shield bashing, or throwing bolas). It means that the time you have to react is way, way higher.

So no, it isn’t the same problem.

if they got a grip on macros and banned people using them then maybe there would be less people just getting demoralized by thieves 1 shotting them.

FxyO.8243:

http://i.imgur.com/b0SyDGz.jpg

next time before nothing happens and then something happens ill make sure to press something so the next something kills me.

The only time a thief should ever get you like that is if he comes at you off screen or your hand slips. Of course, binding dodge to a mouse key works too. Mine is directly under where my thumb rests, so there’s virtually no delay in reaction -> action -> key press.

Yeah, the damage is ridiculous and it’s too easy to pull off for the effect it has, but I’m getting really tired of all these posts. Every day for the last 7 months, there’s always that one person kittening about backstab. They’re not going to change it.

Honestly I want more people to complain about a thief with a shortbow. It’s literally impossible to catch one or hit one with all the cripple and evades. But want to know something? They’re still not OP.

sorrow.2364:

Lukin.4061:

Yes, it actually is the same problem – a 100b war kills most of people that have just joined pvp, since they have no knowledge of how to counter them. Same goes for BS thief, same goes to almost any glass cannon build.

100b takes more than a second to be executed and you can clearly see the warrior bullrushing to you (or shield bashing, or throwing bolas). It means that the time you have to react is way, way higher.

So no, it isn’t the same problem.

Bulls Charge has a cast time of 1 second, plus the very slight delay after Bulls Charge when you 100B. Optional Frenzy before the Bulls Charge makes it 0.5 seconds.

It’s still probably the most obvious animation in the game with the exception of churning earth.

Another thief op thread lol…

Razor.6392:

Another thief op thread lol…

Uh, I don’t think Thieves are OP.

Let me ask you a question fxyo…were you fighting the thief 1v1 to start, or did you get hit surprisingly from the back?

I agree with the OP. 3k thoughness is a lot, yet you still need to be afraid that out of stealth somebody comes and does about 22k damage in a second. Now imagine a player, who is new to pvp, tries hotjoin. After getting instagibbed several times this new player will either never try pvp again, thus leading to a small player base. Or this new player will also reroll into a thief or mesmer, leading to a boring meta where few professions being abundant.

But these kind of complaints have been on this forum already since day one. Yet, the developers have done nothing to address these problems. I think they still live in a fantasy land and think this is going to be e-sports. Almost complete lack of rewards and small player base spells “failure as an e-sports”. Game balancing is difficult, but adding rewards is easy (doing daily/laurels will not be enough, give pvp players unique weapon skins and Black Lion Keys).

Based on State of the Game interview, I predict the following things will happen with the next update:
1. Mug will be either reworked or its damage will be nerfed by 30% or so.
2. 3-4 s revealed after each stealth.
3. Many weapons and utility skills be buffed
4. Engineer’s kit refinement will be reworked and damage greatly nerfed.
5. Nothing else will be done to the burst damage.

#1-#4 are all good, but #5 is still lacking and thus we will never reach e-sports.

The developers have a very thick skull. They fail to understand that excessive fast burst leads to very static boring meta where almost everybody plays either a bunker or a glass cannon. Almost nobody plays balanced. The problem is even worse in WvWvW, because it allows consumables, more variety in gear, ascended gear and thus you can have even 104% crit damage.

Balanced is dead. Hail to bad game design!

FxyO.8243:

JimmyJazz.7943:

Look; That’s the style of thieves. That’s pretty much all they can do. They kill light/medium player styles. That is it.

It’s your nemesis, your counter spec. The game is designed like that, and I have nothing against it (I’m a DPS engineer).

Instead of getting frustrated, try to find a thief, a good one (r30+); And start dueling with him, until you find a window of escape.

Practice, Practice, Practice.

Thanks for the input but, sorry. This even being possible is horrible balance. give Thieves something else to stay alive or do damage. 4 shotting someone in 1 second isn’t rewarding for the Thief and sure as hell not for the player.

A single block.
A well timed dodge roll (I’ll admit this one can be hard, but not impossible – if you have a 900 range skill, you wait until it lights up and hit dodge).
Any of your numerous AoE CC’s.

Any of these would have absolutely ruined that thief for 45s. Its an all in spec – the thief blows a bunch of CD’s and a bunch of initiative – if it works, the thief probably gets a kill. If it doesn’t, the thief is a free kill.

In fact (in sPvP at least), the spec has been in decline for weeks. It’s extremely easy to counter, and telegraphs it’s attacks from across the battlefield (Dagger pistol is straight up better than D/D at this point. If a thief is running D/D, in most cases the player is either inexperienced, or going for instagib)

Seriously, I’ve been caught with most of this combo (hitting my stunbreaker late, etc), and (playing as a thief) still won the fight, because even with only 20% of my health left, that thief has no tricks left. The instagib player has to hope I screw up and let him catch me with a HS, or the fights over for him.

Learn to play a thief. The moment another thief hits me with Basilisk I shadowstep. The only issue is terrain and bugs.

Due to terrain, some times I can only shadowstep so far, which isnt very far. And due to the Basilisk bug (if you’re still stone colored when you Shadowstep, etc, you cannot dodge roll, so the inevitable Heartseeker spam or tap backstab until you lose stealth or it lands) is what gets me killed against other thieves.

Also, the average is not .3, that’s just the highest. The average is supposedly between .150 – .300 milliseconds. I’ve done a couple test online at times and gotten .2 milliseconds before. Also, the fact it shows heartseeker, unless they had Haste, that alone probably took them some time to land. Me thinks you’re just slow to react.

Getting 0.15 in an app where you wait for a button to light up and click it is nowhere near revelant here. It might matter a bit more in FPS games, but for sure not in GW2.

Kneru.8014:

Learn to play a thief. The moment another thief hits me with Basilisk I shadowstep. The only issue is terrain and bugs.

Due to terrain, some times I can only shadowstep so far, which isnt very far. And due to the Basilisk bug (if you’re still stone colored when you Shadowstep, etc, you cannot dodge roll, so the inevitable Heartseeker spam or tap backstab until you lose stealth or it lands) is what gets me killed against other thieves.

Also, the average is not .3, that’s just the highest. The average is supposedly between .150 – .300 milliseconds. I’ve done a couple test online at times and gotten .2 milliseconds before. Also, the fact it shows heartseeker, unless they had Haste, that alone probably took them some time to land. Me thinks you’re just slow to react.

If they’re using haste you’ll be dead. Otherwise yes shadow step cures all.

I don’t think thieves are overpowered at all. But the OP has a good point.

There’s a deep, fun, exciting, engaging combat system in GW2, but you can’t enjoy it if you aren’t able to stunbreak basilisk venom in a hotjoin in under a half second. “L2P” has nothing to do with it.

Adding to the problem, there’s not much of a learning curve. Jump into your first hotjoin and you’ll probably have at least 1 rank 40+ on the opposing team. And they’ll probably be playing thief, because hotjoin.

PD/PB mesmer, monks, magebane ranger players in GW1 had way better reaction times than any of the people in GW2 do. I guess PvP here is too easy and makes peoples brain less focused.

Rezz.8019:

PD/PB mesmer, monks, magebane ranger players in GW1 had way better reaction times than any of the people in GW2 do. I guess PvP here is too easy and makes peoples brain less focused.

Don’t kid yourself. Due to quickness there are near nonexistent cast times on certain skills when up which you aren’t reacting but predicting. Similar happened in gw1 under an IAS but not as quickly since IAS were not as ludicrous. Fast casted skills could be fast as well but again were better grounded.

ensoriki.5789:

Rezz.8019:

PD/PB mesmer, monks, magebane ranger players in GW1 had way better reaction times than any of the people in GW2 do. I guess PvP here is too easy and makes peoples brain less focused.

Don’t kid yourself. Due to quickness there are near nonexistent cast times on certain skills when up which you aren’t reacting but predicting. Similar happened in gw1 under an IAS but not as quickly since IAS were not as ludicrous. Fast casted skills could be fast as well but again were better grounded.

This man speaks the truth.
Back in GW1, interrupter did not actually have good reaction time, it was just a matter of predicting when the skill to iterrupt would be casted. Also, in Guild Wars, there was a clear skill bar appearing under the enemy’s life bar showing the skill casting time, which is something Guild Wars 2 does not have.

Same applies to infusers/prot monks. They just had to look at the enemies’ frontman and be ready when the spike will come, no infuser/prot monk was capable to prevent a spike by just looking at the life bars.

As for thieves, their spikes is comparable to watching to life bars as an infuser, because it starts instantly. That’s it. No visual clue, no thief walking toward the target, nothing. Teleport and spike.

Ok. Ive read this Thread. And i find this hard to believe. And its not the 3 tenths of a second reaction time the resident Clark Kents here claim to have. Its more the figures shown in that screenshot.
So, acording to the OP and other posts from the author in this thread, this guardian has 3k Armor (2959 as shown in the screenie), and 19k health points. Only possible if he is using Soldier amulet, btw. No other equipment combination can achieve this is spvp (im assuming its spvp, if not, the OP is invalid, as there is no “at the start of the match” in www). Also, according to the picture and the OP statement, this took place as the match started, and this thief, without any might and bloodlust stacks, hit ALL OF HIS COMBO ATTACKS without triggering AEGIS. Odd. Possible, but odd. Moving forward to the maths.
The OP states that the domages shown in the screenie are only possible due to the high scaling of % dmg increase given by stats/traits/runes/amulets/crit dmg. And that tufness does jack sheet. Well, i’ll show its not true. Ill adress the backstab and heartseeker numbers, as they are odd. They do not compute.
If we take a thief with all zerk equipment, scholar runes (those are the most dmging, due to 8% + crit dmg and 10% flat dmg increase), and give him a stat spread of 30/30/0/0/10, chose mug, venomous strength, dagger training, signets of power, executioner and flanking strikes, use basilisk and assassins signet as some of the utilities, we will get the following stats and % increases:
- 2549 power, after activating venom and assassin signet;
-58% + crit dmg;
-2.4 skill modifier for backstab;
-2.0 skill modifier for heartseeker after reaching the 25% hp treshold;
-1030 dmg for dagger strikes, assuming that it allways hits for max dagger dmg (981) and after dagger training is applied (for triggering max dagger dmg its required planetary alignment, pluto included);
-70% dmg increase from all traits/rune/assassins signet dmg modifiers: 5% from flanking strikes, 10% from scholar runes, exposed weakness and first strikes, 20% from executioner and 15 % from assassins signet.
The guardian has 19k hp and 2959 armor, as stated by the OP himself. So, to reach the 25% hp treshold (for heartseeker max dmg hits), we need to do over 14250 dmg first. C&D + steal + backstab = 2851 + 4320 + 8047 = 15218. We ONLY reach the 25% treshold for max heartseeker after backstab. So, this heartseer did meet the requirements to hit both the 25% treshold imposed by the skill itself, and the 50% treshold imposed by executioner to get the extra 20% dmg increase. But… what about BS? and C&D? and steal? we do know that C&D and steal never reaches the 50% treshold to trigger executioner, at least not in someone with 19k hp, but BS?
-> 2851 + 4320 = 7171… BS NEVER benefited from executioner, as it hit the target when he was above 50% hp. So, in light of this, BS did not reap the + 20% increase from executioner. That leaves us with only 50% dmg increase after crit and dagger training. Lets plug this figures in the dmg formula:
Dmg = 2549 × 1030 × 2.4 / 2959 <=> 2129 dmg for a normal hit; if we add the 108% increase from crit dmg we get 4429 dmg; now adding 50% dmg increase from traits/runes/signet, we finally get a BS for… 6644 dmg. That is far from 8047 dmg. And very similar to the heartseeker hit. Something does not compute. What is wrong here? Is it the armor value? the screenshot has zero value in that dept, as the number in there was plugged in by picture manipulation, the 19k hp value seems to be right coz its consistent with the death report shown on screen. These figures are similar with a toon having 2.5k armor, not 3k. In the mists, testing against the heavy golem im sure it will give our heartseekeers values within the reach of those 6630 shown in there. But BS for 8k when above 50% hp is very difficult. This is all very odd. Armor deflection (or, the effect of tufness in reducing dmg) is given by the formula (CA – BA)/CA, where CA is current armor and BA is base armor. With 2959 armor, and a guardian having 2127 base armor, the Armor deflection is 28.12%. That’s almost Protection. I dont understand this domages. The fact that steal hit for half of the BS, and BS hit for quite more than heartseeker benefiting from the executioner trait, makes me think that the OP is lying about his stats. This is another one of those threads. A useless one. QQ thread.

Anyway, whats important these days is that Bruce Lee, when he was alive, could take on 12 people each holding knives, and mop the floor with them. Suck it up Chuck Norris. And lets not forget Tom Cruise and The Last Samurai. This is of dire importance.

It’s not about whether thieves are OP, it’s about the philosophy of how it works. People should not get “globaled” by one class. It just shouldn’t be possible.

Thieves are kind of bad in SPVP. Don’t use Frenzy in PvP.

My post is about liars, not philosophers; if you want to make a thread and present a case, be serious and truthful, dont lie about the facts. I dont care if its OP or not. Some stuff is OP in my opinion, btw. I dislike HS and perma stealth, its cheese. And BS should be toned down, too. But that doesnt make me post threads with made up facts, that may distort reality beyond the real measure of the problem. This kinda threads pop up every day, mostly put up by newcomers who dont fully grasp the game yet, see the ongoing thread about rallying, for example. And Davinci thread on that and other balance issues.

Op in your opinion? if some people can reasonably deal with it, then its not OP. I play an engy, i win the bulk of my 1on1s with thiefs. I dont find them OP. But i do think they give newer /more casual players alot of trouble and should be looked at it on that basis.
Hopefully in a way that doesnt impact how they hang in higher end play.

Against other thieves, I use my stun break fast enough to not die within one second. Doesn’t matter who the thief is. Obviously mine teleports me, but for other classes they have far more defensive abilities to use after a stun break.

I am sure Mug damage is going to get nerfed for the sake of people like the OP. And it was basically stated in the SOTG.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Against other thieves, I use my stun break fast enough to not die within one second. Doesn’t matter who the thief is. Obviously mine teleports me, but for other classes they have far more defensive abilities to use after a stun break.

I am sure Mug damage is going to get nerfed for the sake of people like the OP. And it was basically stated in the SOTG.

Yeah, I was thinking the same about Mug. They’ll probably end up nerfing it to the point where it barely does any damage at all, so we’ll have yet another trait we wont want in our builds.

Also, since stun breakers where brought up. For the most part, if I try to Backstab a Warrior, they pop Endure Pain. Engi’s will instictively hit their Elixir S. Mesmer’s will Blink.

While to an extent I can agree about Quickness (Haste, Quickening Zephyr, Frenzy, etc), the main issue that seems to plague newcomers is muscle memory. Once you get that down, the moment you turn to stone, you instictively hit your keybind. …Unless you’re a clicker. In which case, I think you know your problem.

100B and Thieves are different…stealth plays a big part as you cannot visibly DODGE a backstab. You kinda have to get lucky or the thief has incredibly predictable timing

I personally think cloak and dagger needs a MUCH larger and more obvious animation (swirling black shadows for the 3/4sec cast time it has)

Also mug is WAY out of line for a 10pt trait. It should never be doing more than 2250dmg IMO

FxyO.8243:

Lukin.4061:

This topic again… Do you still have problem with 100b wars too?

Sorry not everyone lives in the world of “I hover my finger over my stun break and auto attack”
Stop trolling, and to answer your question, I can see the warrior. Although yes, the same mechanic also applies. Too much damage in one skill, too little elsewhere.

What a kittenty argument. Who the hell is trolling who here? If you don’t have a stunbreaker you can reach within the time span of a thief combo, you should stick to fractals.

Eduardo.4675:

Ok. Ive read this Thread. And i find this hard to believe. And its not the 3 tenths of a second reaction time the resident Clark Kents here claim to have. Its more the figures shown in that screenshot.
So, acording to the OP and other posts from the author in this thread, this guardian has 3k Armor (2959 as shown in the screenie), and 19k health points. Only possible if he is using Soldier amulet, btw. No other equipment combination can achieve this is spvp (im assuming its spvp, if not, the OP is invalid, as there is no “at the start of the match” in www). Also, according to the picture and the OP statement, this took place as the match started, and this thief, without any might and bloodlust stacks, hit ALL OF HIS COMBO ATTACKS without triggering AEGIS. Odd. Possible, but odd. Moving forward to the maths.
The OP states that the domages shown in the screenie are only possible due to the high scaling of % dmg increase given by stats/traits/runes/amulets/crit dmg. And that tufness does jack sheet. Well, i’ll show its not true. Ill adress the backstab and heartseeker numbers, as they are odd. They do not compute.
If we take a thief with all zerk equipment, scholar runes (those are the most dmging, due to 8% + crit dmg and 10% flat dmg increase), and give him a stat spread of 30/30/0/0/10, chose mug, venomous strength, dagger training, signets of power, executioner and flanking strikes, use basilisk and assassins signet as some of the utilities, we will get the following stats and % increases:
- 2549 power, after activating venom and assassin signet;
-58% + crit dmg;
-2.4 skill modifier for backstab;
-2.0 skill modifier for heartseeker after reaching the 25% hp treshold;
-1030 dmg for dagger strikes, assuming that it allways hits for max dagger dmg (981) and after dagger training is applied (for triggering max dagger dmg its required planetary alignment, pluto included);
-70% dmg increase from all traits/rune/assassins signet dmg modifiers: 5% from flanking strikes, 10% from scholar runes, exposed weakness and first strikes, 20% from executioner and 15 % from assassins signet.
The guardian has 19k hp and 2959 armor, as stated by the OP himself. So, to reach the 25% hp treshold (for heartseeker max dmg hits), we need to do over 14250 dmg first. C&D + steal + backstab = 2851 + 4320 + 8047 = 15218. We ONLY reach the 25% treshold for max heartseeker after backstab. So, this heartseer did meet the requirements to hit both the 25% treshold imposed by the skill itself, and the 50% treshold imposed by executioner to get the extra 20% dmg increase. But… what about BS? and C&D? and steal? we do know that C&D and steal never reaches the 50% treshold to trigger executioner, at least not in someone with 19k hp, but BS?
-> 2851 + 4320 = 7171… BS NEVER benefited from executioner, as it hit the target when he was above 50% hp. So, in light of this, BS did not reap the + 20% increase from executioner. That leaves us with only 50% dmg increase after crit and dagger training. Lets plug this figures in the dmg formula:
Dmg = 2549 × 1030 × 2.4 / 2959 <=> 2129 dmg for a normal hit; if we add the 108% increase from crit dmg we get 4429 dmg; now adding 50% dmg increase from traits/runes/signet, we finally get a BS for… 6644 dmg. That is far from 8047 dmg. And very similar to the heartseeker hit. Something does not compute. What is wrong here? Is it the armor value? the screenshot has zero value in that dept, as the number in there was plugged in by picture manipulation, the 19k hp value seems to be right coz its consistent with the death report shown on screen. These figures are similar with a toon having 2.5k armor, not 3k. In the mists, testing against the heavy golem im sure it will give our heartseekeers values within the reach of those 6630 shown in there. But BS for 8k when above 50% hp is very difficult. This is all very odd. Armor deflection (or, the effect of tufness in reducing dmg) is given by the formula (CA – BA)/CA, where CA is current armor and BA is base armor. With 2959 armor, and a guardian having 2127 base armor, the Armor deflection is 28.12%. That’s almost Protection. I dont understand this domages. The fact that steal hit for half of the BS, and BS hit for quite more than heartseeker benefiting from the executioner trait, makes me think that the OP is lying about his stats. This is another one of those threads. A useless one. QQ thread.

The quoting of this post should be mandatory in all further communications in this thread. As a thief, I’m running a High crit damage/high power build atm, and I don’t reach anywhere near these numbers, even on GC thieves.
Thanks for doing all the legwork to expose the bullkitten – I don’t mind people kittening, but liars and exaggerators are half the reason there are so many misinformed players atm QQing for nerfs and changes that make no sense to those of us who bothered to play the game and learn.

Reaction time really is just something to be learned and as many have stated just practicing will make it better. In GW1 many classes had to react within milliseconds (Spirit Bond on spike for monk, ranger rupting, etc etc) yet no one complained about the speed of that game. It is definitely however in contrast to many standard mmos where the average cast time is 1.5-2 seconds.

Regardless just practice and you will learn muscle memory to just stunbreak out of the spike or use an antispike skill.

That’s why everyone plays Asura. Their reaction times are off the charts!

wait…

the attached picture only showed “top skills”.There are other skills and contributing dmgs that won’t be shown in that mode.Need to show by timeline.Hope the future combat log can show up to seconds and not just per minute

You’re a Guardian and died to Thief burst… what…
use your skills, ANY SKILLS!!!
please…
I live in AUSTRALIA and have easily enough time to dodge this with terribad ping, unless I get venom’d then I use a utility in the same amount of time.
No excuse.

Just read some of the posts and you said “maybe you’re just bad”.
You are bad, this isn’t a hard game, stop insulting/blaming others and learn to play.

I’d say this is purely a experience issue, you’ll develop a twitch breakstun reflex overtime against bursters. Anticipation plays a huge role in this also. I don’t usually get backstab combod, unless I get hit from behind without seeing the thief or there are latency issues between us. I play a GC warrior and that combo globals me, but I still rarely only die to that. Watch out for the basilisk buff and anticipate the combo.

How you can die to a backstab combo on your guardian is a mystery to me. I sometimes play bunkerguard if we don’t have anyone available and that thing barely tickles me.

… and exactly why aren’t ppl just getting together and trying to reproduce it (both sides) instead of the bashing?

OP posted some screenshots which aren’t complete (we lack stats etc), but as incomplete as they are, the “evidence” given to counter his postulates are also just postulates. Yes, I am inclined to actually believe Eduardo on this one (and I still find the design of gc-thieves to be bad) … it seems solid, but for heavens sake just make some attempts to reproduce them and be constructive about the issue instead of this name-calling and flaming which doesn’t add to the attractiveness of no-one .. including the game itself.