Guild Wars 2

Really it was most fun in pvp I have ever had in GW2 except team queues with 4 friends…..Why did ANET deleted something that was fun for most players? I remember 8vs8 was full all the time and 5vs5 were quite empty because guess what? It was not fun and 7vs8 is way better than 4vs5.

Think about it ANET.

no, don’t do it!!! 8v8 is not espurts!

lol

Because 8v8’s were nothing but zergy cluster-kittens where no-one could see what was going on, people didn’t even play the control points, and people couldn’t even learn to play the game because of this environment, let alone learn what other players were doing or how to react to it. It was just a hot mess, and it’s better for everyone now that it’s gone.

In my experience, the maps didn’t work all that well with 8v8. Maybe with dedicated 8v8 maps it could work.

What Steb points out is also important: Currently hotjoins can be sorta used to learn your role and profession in an arena that is rather similar to tPvP. And since tPvP is 5v5, you need a more casual environment where you can also play 5v5.

Steb.2571:

Because 8v8’s were nothing but zergy cluster-kittens where no-one could see what was going on, people didn’t even play the control points, and people couldn’t even learn to play the game because of this environment, let alone learn what other players were doing or how to react to it. It was just a hot mess, and it’s better for everyone now that it’s gone.

So capping 2 bases and zerging between those 2 bases , is an acceptable strategie? :P
Oh yeah , its called ’’rotaion’’ , not zerging :P

Edi: I am sorry , i am a little bitter :P
But 260 teams (1300 ppl) already knows the differend advance tactics between Hotjoins or tPvP (even if 8v8 existed nearly for 2 years)

No…please no. 8v8 were terrible zerg-fests.

I enjoyed 8v8 for what they where. It was fun just to jump into a match, and just fight without worrying about winning. It wasn’t really balanced, but it was still fun. Sometimes I don’t want to do soloq or teamq, I just want to fight people without really having to worry about that rest of my team. Sure there’s 5v5 hotjoin, but that’s not as fun.

i do agree that the ""team"fights" were fun in 8v8, but the maps are not built for it. you would have to introduce a courtyard-like DM system in those arenas.

sign, signed, a thousand times signed!
but they need to remove/fix spectator and team select exploit.

make hotjoin as it was at the beginning, FUN.

they can keep 5v5 servers too, just as it was at the beginning,
but give us back our 8v8!

counter strike global offensive had both
10 vs 10 casual
5 vs 5 competitive
game modes.

why can’t we have both?

I really enjoyed 8v8. In a hotjoin 5v5 if a team is losing, some just immediately give up and afk whereas an 8v8 game, the losing team would just look for group fights until the match was over and it was still pretty exciting (from my experiences).

What anet needs to do is remove ranking from solo q, make team q un-soloable, and give a better tutorial. Honestly, the tutorial for pvp is horrendous.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

counter strike global offensive had both
10 vs 10 casual
5 vs 5 competitive
game modes.

why can’t we have both?

Because you can learn the combat system and even strategies in an FPS 10v10, but here it’s just a big chaotic cancer. 5v5 is the limit and it’s a good decision.

Please NO 8v8 hotjoins, they were way too zergy.

I agree with the OP: sure they were mindless zergfests, but so what? There are plenty of reasons to bring them back:
1. harder to unbalance and manipulate through team swapping than 5v5
2. mindless zergfest can be fun in its own right
3. can in some circumstances be easier for beginners to get into, as they’re less likely to get focussed and die straightaway.

Yep 8v8 was way more fun and you had be much more situationally aware than the tedium of 3 capping points and 5 players to watch (sometimes 4 players). Hmmm really hard to learn. Dudes goes here so you go there. When 2 dudes go there you go here. Tricky stuff.

Faeyd.5094:

Yep 8v8 was way more fun and you had be much more situationally aware than the tedium of 3 capping points and 5 players to watch (sometimes 4 players). Hmmm really hard to learn. Dudes goes here so you go there. When 2 dudes go there you go here. Tricky stuff.

Yeah, sure, let’s pretend that’s all you need to know as a beginning player.

A Bunker needs to learn how to defend against two (or three) players, which is unlikely to happen in 8v8. A mobile player needs to learn to escape from just a couple of players which, again, is unlikely to happen in 8v8. The amount of CC is just bigger.

8v8 requires a different skillset (and different builds) than 5v5 (even when playing on the same maps). We can’t pretend this isn’t the case.

I’m not against a game-mode that focuses more on team fights. Team fights are fun. But I don’t think that game-mode should happen at the cost of the 5v5 hotjoin games.

Ynna.8769:

Faeyd.5094:

Yep 8v8 was way more fun and you had be much more situationally aware than the tedium of 3 capping points and 5 players to watch (sometimes 4 players). Hmmm really hard to learn. Dudes goes here so you go there. When 2 dudes go there you go here. Tricky stuff.

Yeah, sure, let’s pretend that’s all you need to know as a beginning player.

A Bunker needs to learn how to defend against two (or three) players, which is unlikely to happen in 8v8. A mobile player needs to learn to escape from just a couple of players which, again, is unlikely to happen in 8v8. The amount of CC is just bigger.

lets be realistic, hotjoin doesn’t prepare you for rated matches in the slightest…
if thats the reason for it being 5v5 then a new unrated queue should be added to fill that niche.

in hotjoin you’ll find a huge array of interesting builds, you might even be playing one yourself while you run between all of the points without a solid strategy in the casual atmosphere.
now go to tournaments and your team will tear you “a new one” for having an interesting build and your enemies will faceroll you with their attack-of-the-clones copy/paste meta builds.

they are totally different, hotjoin is for fun, tournaments are for focusing on rewards and elitism,

8v8 was amazingly fun, and so it should be bought back to hotjoin.
believe it or not, some of us play for fun.

saying “they should make new maps for it” is pretty much saying “don’t bring it back” because lets be real, its Anet, we’ve got 3 maps in 2 years, and one of those is universally loathed.

it worked fine back when it was 8v8.
it was more fun back when it was 8v8.
it was better balanced back when it was 8v8.
they should bring back 8v8.

Well, I can’t speak for everyone, but my time exclusively doing hotjoin gave me a lot of skills that transferred when starting tPvP. (Anecdotal evidence, I know.)

And I stand by what I said: The maps we have are unsuited for 8v8. Points like the Graveyard are alright in size, but the smaller points became a cluster of particle effects that makes it near impossible to play at melee range. It heavily favors ranged builds.

I’d love to see 8v8 and I’m okay with it being an option. But with the current selections of maps I probably won’t play it often.

Ynna.8769:

Well, I can’t speak for everyone, but my time exclusively doing hotjoin gave me a lot of skills that transferred when starting tPvP. (Anecdotal evidence, I know.)

And I stand by what I said: The maps we have are unsuited for 8v8. Points like the Graveyard are alright in size, but the smaller points became a cluster of particle effects that makes it near impossible to play at melee range. It heavily favors ranged builds.

I’d love to see 8v8 and I’m okay with it being an option. But with the current selections of maps I probably won’t play it often.

No, you’re not alone, hotjoin might not teach you much about conquest and map mechanics but it does let you practice your build just enough to get the basics.

And I agree that our current maps aren’t suited for 16 players, but I would rather see 8v8 imperfectly implemented (the way it was for over a year before it was axed, which still had more people playing and enjoying it than the 5v5 hotjoin servers did), than not have it at all.

Ynna.8769:

Faeyd.5094:

Yep 8v8 was way more fun and you had be much more situationally aware than the tedium of 3 capping points and 5 players to watch (sometimes 4 players). Hmmm really hard to learn. Dudes goes here so you go there. When 2 dudes go there you go here. Tricky stuff.

Yeah, sure, let’s pretend that’s all you need to know as a beginning player.

A Bunker needs to learn how to defend against two (or three) players, which is unlikely to happen in 8v8. A mobile player needs to learn to escape from just a couple of players which, again, is unlikely to happen in 8v8. The amount of CC is just bigger.

8v8 requires a different skillset (and different builds) than 5v5 (even when playing on the same maps). We can’t pretend this isn’t the case.

I’m not against a game-mode that focuses more on team fights. Team fights are fun. But I don’t think that game-mode should happen at the cost of the 5v5 hotjoin games.

Let’s pretend that keeping track of 10 people is harder than keeping track of 16.

The game is big enough for both game modes. 5v5 hotjoin is NEVER 5 people on each side. It is usually 4v3. It’s devoid of action… ergo, boring. It has no better correlation to tPvP than 8v8 hotjoin except when debated on paper. It just doesn’t work. Solo Q is fine as the training ground.

Black Teagan.9215:

I can’t understand you, you write to loud.

I was thinking the exact same thing. In-forum voices please, lol.

8v8 skyhammer would be hilarious, but seriously i did kind of liked 8v8. i thought i saw a few of those matches after the update that removed them, but that might have been a custom arena that they couldnt delete (im sure its gone by now though)

If you really want an 8v8, buy a custom arena and make one.

I don’t see any harm in having both 8v8 and 5v5 hot join servers.

I’d like to see the spectator/autobalance exploiting fixed first though as it’s really dragging down what fun can be had in hot join to begin with.

I loved 8 vs 8 servers too, dunno why they were removed. Why not being able to pick, its hotjoin anyways. Nothing really matters, so why not be able to pick :P

I’d like to have 8v8 back, too. Obviously, the point of such arenas was never to learn Conquest (node control, rotations…), but simply have fun brawling with/against other players. There’s simply no other game content that would let you do that, even WvW.

As for people not liking 8v8: it’s evidently your right to not like it, and no one should question this taste, or force you to play it. However, requesting that something be removed (not added back) because one doesn’t like it, is the expression of a selfish mind, who does not care a bit about what other fellow players think and enjoy. I don’t like <insert anything here>, so it should be removed from the game!

Respect isn’t only intended for self.

Steb.2571:

Because 8v8’s were nothing but zergy cluster-kittens where no-one could see what was going on, people didn’t even play the control points, and people couldn’t even learn to play the game because of this environment, let alone learn what other players were doing or how to react to it. It was just a hot mess, and it’s better for everyone now that it’s gone.

~ to anyone who agrees with this:

Please stop being elitist jerks.

I refer you to the part of the OP’s statement that everyone is missing – when confronted with 5v5 or 8v8, almost everyone chose 8v8.

Why? Super easy. Because 8v8 servers were fun and 5v5 servers were then what they are now, beat-your-head-against-the-wall-4v5 most of the match-kittenfests. *Excuse my french

At first glance, it seems good…unless you’ve actually been in an 8v8. It’s basically Mini WvW. And that’s a bad thing.

Nilkemia.8507:

At first glance, it seems good…unless you’ve actually been in an 8v8. It’s basically Mini WvW. And that’s a bad thing.

I remain confident that 8v8 can be a lot of fun. Smaller group combat in WvW is also pretty fun (probably the most fun I have in WvW).

It’s just that the maps aren’t very suited for this sort of combat.

Nilkemia.8507:

At first glance, it seems good…unless you’ve actually been in an 8v8. It’s basically Mini WvW. And that’s a bad thing.

At first glance on 5v5 hotjoin, 8v8 is so much better.

I would never play it but I’m sure someone has a 8v8 custom arena going. If there really is that much of a demand for it, it should be full.

I don’t like 8v8 as a default setting though.

Amityel.5324:

Really it was most fun in pvp I have ever had in GW2 except team queues with 4 friends…..Why did ANET deleted something that was fun for most players? I remember 8vs8 was full all the time and 5vs5 were quite empty because guess what? It was not fun and 7vs8 is way better than 4vs5.

Think about it ANET.

Agreed. There is literally no reason to NOT have hotjoin randomly have 5v5 or 8v8 matches as it does change up the dynamic of the game. Also, to those that want only 5v5, there are two other types of ways you can have them: queue solo arena or queue team arena.

I think Anet should take more risks and more creative liberties with Hotjoin in general as it is more of a training ground/casual non-chalant form of pvp play (ie: bring out different game mode maps, change up the team number sizes randomly, change some of the rulesets, and bring back Courtyard from the depths of that ridiculous custom arena paywall).

Would love 8v8 back, it was indeed much more fun, I can sadly say I miss the days fighting those matches. Zerg? Who says there are none in a 5v5 match? A cluster of players trailing the map is still a zerg, and it happens in this game mode as well and no one can say they haven’t been "zerged"even in a 5v5 match. Reducing the number of players was not a solution to the problem, the game mode is the problem, this is a conquest mode and it’s bound to be zergy at some point of the match because all we care about is to cap and hold the points to win, be it 5v5 or 8v8.
I would like to add off topic : Anet please bring Raid on the Capricorn back. I loved that map. I mean underwarer fights were fun why get rid of that?
I essentially pvp and the only time I would actually fight underwater in the game is on that map…now it’s gone.

The predominant reason for removing 8v8 was so that more players would feel inclined to join the 5v5 solo and team queues. If hotjoin is just an unranked soloQ, most people would just soloQ to try out new builds and to get better rewards while they’re at it; especially if they don’t care about their soloQ rank. More players in the queues also means that the matchmaking system works better in finding appropriately skilled opponents.

Removing 8v8 in the same update that they released the reward tracks was a way of masking the effect of 8v8 removal. If 8v8 had been removed in a separate update, the drop in players would have been obvious and extremely unpopular. The influx of players from the new reward tracks masked the dismissal of many players who no longer found the game mode fun.

As for helping new players learn the game mode, I would argue that removing 8v8 actually lowers the number of players in sPvP, especially in the long term. A new player could still have fun in a 7 vs 8 and learn the game at a slower pace, where their inexperience has less of a negative impact on their team, which can still succeed despite that inexperienced player . When they eventually want better rewards they could move to 5v5. There, they would have started off near the bottom of the ladder, because they’re new and need experience, and work there way up while learning the game mode in the arenas; or possibly practice some more in the 5v5 hotjoin arenas.

Instead, the current system throws them immediately into the 4v5 hotjoins where they will get hopelessly defeated by more experienced players repeatedly until they get demoralized and perhaps never enter sPvP again. It is very hard to convince new players to stick around or even show up after that kind of experience, and knowing more is to come for the foreseeable future. Just look at the 3rd place team in nearly every WvW matchup since launch if you need evidence of that fact.

Finally, if they actually wanted to help players learn the game, they would have put in a better tutorial and upgraded the HotM to have more build testing tools; similar to how GW1 had Isle of the Nameless with its condition dummies for learning the different effects, CC or Condition focused NPCs that roughly mirrored actual player builds, etc.

I’d welcome it back, it was pretty fun. Mini-wvw is about right, but I fail to see how that is a bad thing…

No I don’t want those cancerous zerg trains back, thx. Stay in WvW and don’t make more suggestions on the forums.

I want them back too.
They were still better than the 4v5 auto-balance-war-of-musical-chairs.