Guild Wars 2

Great document

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

What is this?

Grouch – Let me clarify:
Since the 6/23 release, dozens upon dozens of players have sent me bugs, exploits, suggestions – etc. This particular group of players decided to put their feedback into a document that they could all edit and then shoot over to me to take a look at. It has been particularly helpful in for nailing down a number of balance affecting bugs, similar to the comprehensive lists that have popped up in a number of the profession forums.
So, to be very clear: this list is neither written nor maintained by myself or anyone else at ArenaNet. It is a list of issues (bugs and balance) that players would like to see addressed.

It was a bug list being maintained by about 30-40 people that Backpack accidently leaked out unknowing that it wasn’t meant to be on stream. It’s just a list of public issues that have been noted from forums , etc.

These are just balance requests made from players that was shared with ANet. I personally brought up a lot of the Necromancer balance/suggestions, but they are nothing more than a player wishlist essentially, a compilation of the balance changes players would like to see, but with no guarantees from ANet.

Yes, and it’s a good list.

We want ideas/proposal about ele

“Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch”

That made me laugh.

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

Raif.9507:

“Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch”

That made me laugh.

Unless you have arcane thievery. Then stack it up high and pass it on. ;D

Ross Biddle.2367:

Raif.9507:

“Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch”

That made me laugh.

Unless you have arcane thievery. Then stack it up high and pass it on. ;D

Hot potato at it’s finest.

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

Lettuce.2945:

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

He said he wishes one of the ‘’big names’’ who plays ele would step up and do it, not some forum warrior who wants to make certain traits useless. Yes, please give me freaking healing power on a zerker amulet, all I want.

Lettuce.2945:

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

Umm.. No. I’ve purposely ignored your threads for a reason and it’s because you propose ridiculous ideas and nerfs that aren’t even on point for what needs to be done.

Even your #8 is so wrong. It was never that way, it was Ferocity based upon your healing power. You’re talking about bringing back Soothing Winds which was a useless trait that was never taken hence it was removed. I could address your 8 points individually, but I’d rather not waste my time nor derail this thread. Pyromancers Pussiance….

For god sake, let the “meta” settle, the patch has been out for all of 13 days.

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I can assure you that all profession discussions are fairy represented by these “chosen players.”

The balance issues are a joke.

We weren’t even a week in and they’re already crying about balance. We knew things were going to change. Let them change, let the game play out, let builds come up to counter.

This game is very balanced at the moment and those balance changes in the google doc are laughable.

Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
? Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch

hahahahahahahahahaha

Raif.9507:

“Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch”

That made me laugh.

lol

Disappointed that more stat customization (amulet system) isn’t on the list.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

He said he wishes one of the ‘’big names’’ who plays ele would step up and do it, not some forum warrior who wants to make certain traits useless. Yes, please give me freaking healing power on a zerker amulet, all I want.

We all know that you are the forum warrior here. Duel him and dispute his points? If you are really skilled as your posts suggest…..

But… thats none of my business..

It´s just another great player feedback that will be ignored. Business as usual, move on, nothing to see here.

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

He said he wishes one of the ‘’big names’’ who plays ele would step up and do it, not some forum warrior who wants to make certain traits useless. Yes, please give me freaking healing power on a zerker amulet, all I want.

We all know that you are the forum warrior here. Duel him and dispute his points? If you are really skilled as your posts suggest…..

But… thats none of my business..

I fail to see how his suggestions has anything to do with his skill, but okay.

I’m from EU.

Rym.1469:

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

IMO, most forum people only post or type “good”, a lot of these forum warriors are baddies in game. I think their perception of balance is skewed.

StickerHappy.8052:

Rym.1469:

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

IMO, most forum people only post or type “good”, a lot of these forum warriors are baddies in game. I think their perception of balance is skewed.

Everyone’s perception of balance is skewed. Including very strong players who are often the most skewed as they have a vested interest in maintaining the powerful nature of their comp.

As for this list. I hope arenanet do realise this:

Thief has almost always been a mandatory pick because of their unrivaled mobility and the uncounterable stealth plays the class allows. This means that every competitive team is always going to be forced to have a thief and that the thieves performance can almost control the entire matchup of the game. As an example, if a thief severely outplays the other thief it’s going to have a much larger impact than any cele class outplaying each other and there isn’t much the team can do to stop this from happening.

I mean, I would +10000000 this if I could. This whole game of gw2 is decided by who has the best thief. Its like air superiority in warfare. If you have thief superiority then it is so easy to play every other class and feel like a pro.

Honestly 90% of games with organised teams is just who has the better thief because the profession is simply too strong to deal with without your own thief.

They need to add significant counterplay to thief. Or reduce its damage. And by counter play I mean like ways to interfere with their initiative regain

Raif.9507:

Lettuce.2945:

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

Umm.. No. I’ve purposely ignored your threads for a reason and it’s because you propose ridiculous ideas and nerfs that aren’t even on point for what needs to be done.

Even your #8 is so wrong. It was never that way, it was Ferocity based upon your healing power. You’re talking about bringing back Soothing Winds which was a useless trait that was never taken hence it was removed. I could address your 8 points individually, but I’d rather not waste my time nor derail this thread. Pyromancers Pussiance….

For god sake, let the “meta” settle, the patch has been out for all of 13 days.

As I already said multiple times, I’ll duel anyone on NA who questions my skills. Then you’re welcome to apologize afterwards. Multiple people have already dueled me and apologized.

And my balance suggestions were all from discussion with some of the pro eles that I know on NA. We were all in agreement that it would tone down the class that would be balanced.

And how about you tell me why my nerfs are “ridiculous”? Do you encourage passive defense traits based on rng? That’s what it seems like. Are you telling me soothing ice isn’t too strong at the moment in conjunction with cleanse on regen or elemental shielding? Now even d/f eles have access to frost aura. Are you trying to tell me that blinding ashes on a flame legion ele on a 5 sec icd is skillful play? Have you ever tried playing a d/f earth line diamond skin ele vs a condi class? The condi class absolutely has 0 chance of winning. Literally. The hp won’t budge. The 33 sec cd invuls, the 16 sec cd clears on mag wave, the water heals, the cleansing fire…And that’s even if they manage to break diamond skin…Yea, it’s not too strong at the moment. sarcasm. Are you trying to say that we don’t have enough access to protection, because we have some of the best access to it. Why not just remove another rng trait that gives us protection? Are you saying that eles that can maintain 20+ might stacks on their own is balanced when most other classes can’t? HGH engis can. Are you telling me burning is in a good spot right now especially with how easily eles can burn and how easily they can might stack? Are you telling me that my idea to keep ele sustain while toning down those other traits are “ridiculous” considering how eles have one of the lowest armor/hp pool in the game? And no, it was precision to healing power. I can prove it by linking you to multiple forum posts discussing how to raise maximum healing power on eles pre patch and people are all saying “precision to healing trait”. So…If you want to argue with me about that, feel free to do so.

That list is a joke to ranger…

No off-hand radius fix.
No spirit fix.
No trap fix.
No shout fix (aside from trait, the effect itself is USELESS, NO FIX?)
Weird “fix” for gs3 which has 2 leaps as selling point since launch.

Most of them are useless fixes anyway. And most of them hurt ranger as well.

I heard the list is made from an Engi from Abjure, and Anet listened to them. To put this in simple term, it means the balance and the survival of certain classes are on the hand of these minority because Anet only listen to them while ignoring every single balance suggestion made in the forum.

Lettuce.2945:

As I already said multiple times, I’ll duel anyone on NA who questions my skills. Then you’re welcome to apologize afterwards. Multiple people have already dueled me and apologized.

And my balance suggestions were all from discussion with some of the pro eles that I know on NA. We were all in agreement that it would tone down the class that would be balanced.

And how about you tell me why my nerfs are “ridiculous”? Do you encourage passive defense traits based on rng? That’s what it seems like. Are you telling me soothing ice isn’t too strong at the moment in conjunction with cleanse on regen or elemental shielding? Now even d/f eles have access to frost aura. Are you trying to tell me that blinding ashes on a flame legion ele on a 5 sec icd is skillful play? Have you ever tried playing a d/f earth line diamond skin ele vs a condi class? The condi class absolutely has 0 chance of winning. Literally. The hp won’t budge. The 33 sec cd invuls, the 16 sec cd clears on mag wave, the water heals, the cleansing fire…And that’s even if they manage to break diamond skin…Yea, it’s not too strong at the moment. sarcasm. Are you trying to say that we don’t have enough access to protection, because we have some of the best access to it. Why not just remove another rng trait that gives us protection? Are you saying that eles that can maintain 20+ might stacks on their own is balanced when most other classes can’t? HGH engis can. Are you telling me burning is in a good spot right now especially with how easily eles can burn and how easily they can might stack? Are you telling me that my idea to keep ele sustain while toning down those other traits are “ridiculous” considering how eles have one of the lowest armor/hp pool in the game? And no, it was precision to healing power. I can prove it by linking you to multiple forum posts discussing how to raise maximum healing power on eles pre patch and people are all saying “precision to healing trait”. So…If you want to argue with me about that, feel free to do so.

No one is saying that ele doesn’t need some shaving, but your nerfs are just bad and doesn’t solve the problem at all. Yeah, if all the pro eles on NA decided these buffs are great, then I’d be worried about the state of NA pvp scene. The issue is actually the fact ele has so much heal and can stack might so much, so by not nerfing the sustain you’re not solving it since many of skills have no counterplay. Ele has very low base survability, but when traited it’s too strong, think about it a bit and then you realize the solution lies somewhere else.

1. Doesn’t promote skillful play at all, all you’re doing is raising the ICD, no skill involved sill.
2. Removing 800 heal on cele changes nothing. Either increase the cooldown or reduce the duration of the aura, which imo would be a better solution.
3. If this change would go through, it would result in no one using the trait, because it would be extremely weak. Either the health treshold needs to be lower with lower duration of the boon or it has to be spread into all attunements. I don’t think it’s wise to stack all defensive stuff into earth, it becomes too powerful.
5. Again, you’re nerfing something completely irrelevant. That’s not where all the might comes from. Ele with blinding ashes can stack up to 25 with no problem, you would be nerfing a trait that’s already underwhelming compared to the two others.
6. The sustain needs to be shaved down to balance it, there’s no discussion about it.
7. If you do that, you’re going to make the trait completely bad. A few sec of retal and fury is not going to cut it for a master trait. The vigor is completely useless. The durations either of protection from both EC and EA need to be decreased or better the trait needs to be completely removed and replaced by something useful since the choices in that slot are alredy quite poor.
8. This is just a horrible idea. There’s a reason no one used this before and what he meant before was the fact they actually suggested having HP converted to feorcity and everyone hated it. Before the patch this was one of the worst traits in game, I seriously have no clue why you would want to do that again. It’s not going to increase build diversity since no one will use it except the bad eles that have no clue about their build. At the moment there are eles which use One with Air and I’d say that’s a majority and a few uses this in pvp. In pve this is actually the only viable trait in that slot, why would you nerf it there? Ele already lost its damage modifiers.

So yeah all you want to do is to nerf the traits that has nothing to do with the problem.

While I don’t completely disagree with many of the suggestions on that list, it is very disappointing to know that the top players have such easy communication with the Anet devs while the rest of us can’t even get the simplest answers from them on their own official forums.

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

Laraley.7695:

snip

1. Doesn’t promote skillful play at all, all you’re doing is raising the ICD, no skill involved sill.
2. Removing 800 heal on cele changes nothing. Either increase the cooldown or reduce the duration of the aura, which imo would be a better solution. *
*3. If this change would go through, it would result in no one using the trait, because it would be extremely weak. Either the health treshold needs to be lower with lower duration of the boon or it has to be spread into all attunements. I don’t think it’s wise to stack all defensive stuff into earth, it becomes too powerful.
5. Again, you’re nerfing something completely irrelevant. That’s not where all the might comes from. Ele with blinding ashes can stack up to 25 with no problem, you would be nerfing a trait that’s already underwhelming compared to the two others.
6. The sustain needs to be shaved down to balance it, there’s no discussion about it. *
7. If you do that, you’re going to make the trait completely bad. A few sec of retal and fury is not going to cut it for a master trait. The vigor is completely useless. The durations either of protection from both EC and EA need to be decreased or better the trait needs to be completely removed and replaced by something useful since the choices in that slot are alredy quite poor.
*snip

So yeah all you want to do is to nerf the traits that has nothing to do with the problem.

It’s funny how you agreed with me without realizing it. I’ll point it out. And you contradicted yourself. You said that eles can stack too much might at this point then said that they stack it a lot especially in the BA line…Which is were the traits that I suggested nerfing so it requires the ele to actively stack might more rather than passively with might on cantrips and using fire skills (since we have to use cantrips a lot anyways..). And that’s just the first step towards toning it down, then we can work on reducing the mights gained from blasts for eles possibly.

Low base survivability but when traited, too strong. Hence…My suggestions to tone down some of “said” traits that are “too strong”. You just said to raise the icd of soothing ice…Which is what I said. Funny guy. The regen portion of it actually syncs with cleanse on regen…It’s not the “800” heal that’s too strong. It’s the rng cleanse. We have enough access to regen as is. Get it? Ok.

The rework to diamond skin would promote more skillful play. Considering the attunement recharge rate is 8 secs if you go in arcana…Procc’ing 4 secs of resistance every time you go in earth is fair while above 75% hp threshold. Considering the sustain on ele, I would say the threshold is good enough. You want to lower it? Then that’s just making it easier for the ele. It will promote more skillful play. You somewhat agreed with me here yet didn’t because you want it passively across all attunements. So it’s confirmed that you do want to be carried by passive play.

The sustain can be somewhat nerfed by what I mentioned. Part of it is because of the rng passive traits contributing to us being able to “sustain”.

Did I ever say blinding ashes was skillful? It never will be, no matter how much you look at it. When you actually pvp, you can’t keep track of when it’ll proc. But the trait itself is too strong at the moment, and if you want to keep the “blind on burn” trait…Then raise the icd to 10 secs per target without completely making it useless. The reason I say per target is that it’ll allow for the fire line eles to have some kind of defense (even if it’s rng) if they tone down the other traits along with this.

EC is useful at the moment if you want to look at it from a “useful” standpoint. It provides more rng boons. (Which is what I don’t like about this trait…the rng). So stop making it out to be completely useless because it isn’t. The retal as well adds to your own dps. We already have enough access to protection hence my suggestion to remove it from this trait specifically. If you want to lower the duration of protection, then say it. Just simply suggest that and modify my suggestion instead of, for the past week or so, saying my ideas “were ridiculous”. Yet you don’t even realize how much you agreed with me just now.

My precision to healing power was a shot in the dark considering some of the fresh air eles that I know talking about how they wanted a bit more sustain. And knowing they trait into air…That’s where the idea came from. I also would play lighting rod marauders d/f sometimes for the lulz. So having some kind of sustain on it would be nice. The damage isn’t the issue anymore since traitlines don’t give stats anymore. Most of your damage actually comes from the amulet. So having a “lack” of damage on marauders/zerk? Yeah, right. No. The damage will still be there despite losing out on ONE damage modifier.

A good list but most of the suggestions aren’t worth implementing. I see nothing that would bring ele back in line for example.

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

nekretaal.6485:

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

“Axe 1,2 are weak , 2 needs more damage , 1 needs AS nerf reverted and a bit more dmg
axe range also feels terrible, maybe additional range on the axe trait would be possible”
Maybe not enough, but its a starting point.

Bhawb.7408:

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

nekretaal.6485:

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

“Axe 1,2 are weak , 2 needs more damage , 1 needs AS nerf reverted and a bit more dmg
axe range also feels terrible, maybe additional range on the axe trait would be possible”
Maybe not enough, but its a starting point.

Axe 1 and 2 need longer range and higher damage coefficients. Axe 3 needs a blast finisher. And while we’re on the topic, not up there which many would like to see is for the cooldowns of utility skills to be visible in death shroud.

Raif.9507:

“Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch”

That made me laugh.

Heehuehee

On that note, is anyone afraid that Necro will purposely do this then transfer conditions on the third walk in/out?

Lettuce.2945:

As I already said multiple times, I’ll duel anyone on NA who questions my skills. Then you’re welcome to apologize afterwards. Multiple people have already dueled me and apologized.

And my balance suggestions were all from discussion with some of the pro eles that I know on NA. We were all in agreement that it would tone down the class that would be balanced.

Edit – You know what, I’m being a little unfair. I’ll post why I think you’re wrong.

First off, we need to look at the game as a whole. The game is balanced around 5v5 so any complaint that a build hard counters another is secondary in objective to balance. Why you may ask? Because in the case of DS there is counterplay in the team sense.

Second of all, we need to do 1 step at a time. If we were to go through your entire list in one go, the class wouldn’t be balanced, it would be out of the meta completely. For changes such as tooling with Burning, we are changing things on a meta level, not an individual builds level so the turning down of burning would have a larger affect and we would have to see how that affects builds. It is my firm belief at this time the reason Ele is viewed as “OP” is strictly because of the Burning changes and how burning stacks and interacts with might.

Woah wait, might you say? You listed this as an issue that needs solving. However, it doesn’t. Ele (as a class) has been able to stack large amounts of might since the betas. This stacking capability is the reason for the large nerfs right before launch of the game to the base damage numbers of Eles abilities as it was just WAY too strong. Now how did all of a sudden after this patch is might stacking a huge issue? Because of Burning. Since Might stacks give condi damage, you turn a mainly power spec into a serious hybrid spec that has pressure coming from 2 prongs, condi and power. Where before the condi damage was secondary and something that you could relatively ignore, now it’s a serious threat along with the decent direct damage you currently do.

The first real culprit that needs to be dealt with is Burning. Once you tone this down, much of the Eles "OP"ness will disappear because that serious condi pressure is not as serious anymore. Once that new change settles in, then we need to move on to other things.

Now, lets take your other suggestions as some have a basis of merit.

DS
Now, I will agree, I’m not a fan of the “passive” trait. However, it is in essence a good trait. It doesn’t need much changing because it’s OP, but because the skilled eles don’t like passiveness. You say wait, it counters all condi builds! kitten right it does, for a while. I personally believe that this can be left to the side till a later date because in a team game, if you are a condi and facing DS Elet, then you should do the team thing. Call for help if you’re a home point bunker or just back off till teammates come. 90% isn’t much to get a target down to especially if there is more than one player. Should the game ever really evolve into ESports, this is like counter picking an opponent in LoL (it’s like picking Galio into Katarina). You KNOW that there is a condi Necro on the other team, therefore you want a way to counter it (to an extent) and DS is a great way to go. As an aside, I think it does promote skillful play of a sorts as you do need to maintain 90% health which sometimes (especially in a team brawl) is NOT an easy thing to do. If a whole team is condi, well then that’s a terrible decision.
Frost Aura on crit

No, I have 0 problem with it. Especially since we want to BUFF condis to become at a comparable level to direct damage builds. I think the 20 second cooldown is great actually because again, it’s on a crit which is a chance anyway. Sometimes it will be every 20 seconds, sometimes longer. Plus, it requires taking a decent hit (it is a crit) which will chunk your HP pool.

Blinding Ashes
I think this is in general a terrible trait all around. A non controllable blind? Meh. Your suggestion here is sound. 10 second ICD and make it a per target trait. However, this change isn’t because it’s OP, but because this would be a way better trait as it’s only single target at this time.

Bringing back Soothing Winds
No, not at all. This was a trait that was never taken by any elet, and it was for a REASON. It was negligible and the Air line is (or should be) for damage.

Removing Prot from EC
Nope. This will hurt the burst elet way more than it will the D/D ele. Final Shielding is still a bad.
We need to wait for the final condi damage changes, namely the change to burning. After the burning changes, we will most likely see a very different landscape. And if not, then we move on to the next item that sticks out like a sore thumb. Not that it matters, everything is still up in the air now anyways and will be thrown out the window when HoT actually launches.

Bhawb.7408:

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

nekretaal.6485:

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

“Axe 1,2 are weak , 2 needs more damage , 1 needs AS nerf reverted and a bit more dmg
axe range also feels terrible, maybe additional range on the axe trait would be possible”
Maybe not enough, but its a starting point.

lmfao…ranger axe is nearinstagib and way to spammable….ranger axe needs no buffat all

Darksteel.8412:

Bhawb.7408:

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

nekretaal.6485:

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

“Axe 1,2 are weak , 2 needs more damage , 1 needs AS nerf reverted and a bit more dmg
axe range also feels terrible, maybe additional range on the axe trait would be possible”
Maybe not enough, but its a starting point.

lmfao…ranger axe is nearinstagib and way to spammable….ranger axe needs no buffat all

Reread that: it’s necro axe.

“lmfao.”

“- Make Trickster baseline. This would relieve some of the split between utility and defense that other classes don’t have to choose between.”

DO THIS

“- Add back reveal on backstab – regardless of if you hit it or not.”

DO NOT DO THIS

the supposed bug with mantra heal giving two stacks of the harmonious mantra buff isn’t a bug. they changed menders purity to be power cleanse when you heal. power cleanse is a mantra so it gives a stack of the buff. the real bug is power cleanse not proccing on the last use of mantra heal which explains why you don’t remove conditions on heal and only get one stack of the buff

The Elementalist is a balance issue, the Thief is a design one.

Simply put, at the moment, the Ele is OP due to two objective issues: burn stacking is OTT and the celestial amulet is too good. After these two we are left over with some really important traits becoming baseline and I feel that the Ele benefited the most from taking 3 full lines. The stone heart or diamond skin is just so good when you factor in arcane and water lines.

My suggestions would be:
-reduce the celestial amulet stat pool by 15-20%
-reduce certain skills burn duration by a tad, for example drakes breath
-reduce the duration of the boons provided by elemental attunement, for example protection from 5s to 2s.

Salamander.2504:

Darksteel.8412:

Bhawb.7408:

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

nekretaal.6485:

Nothing about necromancer axe here. When something is so terrible that nobody plays it, it gets ignored in future tracking.

“Axe 1,2 are weak , 2 needs more damage , 1 needs AS nerf reverted and a bit more dmg
axe range also feels terrible, maybe additional range on the axe trait would be possible”
Maybe not enough, but its a starting point.

lmfao…ranger axe is nearinstagib and way to spammable….ranger axe needs no buffat all

Reread that: it’s necro axe.

“lmfao.”

OMFG….but yes you’re absolutley right. still I said it had to say it

Salamander.2504:

Axe 1 and 2 need longer range and higher damage coefficients. Axe 3 needs a blast finisher. And while we’re on the topic, not up there which many would like to see is for the cooldowns of utility skills to be visible in death shroud.

Range is not a necessity, though I understand its become a fetish request among the community. Axe can absolutely be made to be strong at 600 range, and while we do need finishers (which was included as a general note), Axe 3 already does way too much. Making it a finisher would make it a 600 radius PBAoE retaliation, cripple, damage, corruption, blast finisher.

The CD is a good note though.

I found condi formulas totally wrong.

Damage base is too high and it scales not well with condi damage.

It’s a totally no sense a zerk classe con hit you with over 1k+ damage of burning.

1k damage of burning is insane for a condi class, a totally broken thing for a no condi specialized class.

Condis are not DoT anymore it’s like spike damage, passive, it’s a really no sense.

Pls lower the condis formulas a lot for zerk class and celestial class and promote only 1.2k+ condi damage classes (pure condi profs).

Raif.9507:

Edit – You know what, I’m being a little unfair. I’ll post why I think you’re wrong.

snip

Now, lets take your other suggestions as some have a basis of merit.

DS
Now, I will agree, I’m not a fan of the “passive” trait. However, it is in essence a good trait. It doesn’t need much changing because it’s OP, but because the skilled eles don’t like passiveness. You say wait, it counters all condi builds! kitten right it does, for a while. I personally believe that this can be left to the side till a later date because in a team game, if you are a condi and facing DS Elet, then you should do the team thing. Call for help if you’re a home point bunker or just back off till teammates come. 90% isn’t much to get a target down to especially if there is more than one player. Should the game ever really evolve into ESports, this is like counter picking an opponent in LoL (it’s like picking Galio into Katarina). You KNOW that there is a condi Necro on the other team, therefore you want a way to counter it (to an extent) and DS is a great way to go. As an aside, I think it does promote skillful play of a sorts as you do need to maintain 90% health which sometimes (especially in a team brawl) is NOT an easy thing to do. If a whole team is condi, well then that’s a terrible decision.
Frost Aura on crit

No, I have 0 problem with it. Especially since we want to BUFF condis to become at a comparable level to direct damage builds. I think the 20 second cooldown is great actually because again, it’s on a crit which is a chance anyway. Sometimes it will be every 20 seconds, sometimes longer. Plus, it requires taking a decent hit (it is a crit) which will chunk your HP pool.

Blinding Ashes
I think this is in general a terrible trait all around. A non controllable blind? Meh. Your suggestion here is sound. 10 second ICD and make it a per target trait. However, this change isn’t because it’s OP, but because this would be a way better trait as it’s only single target at this time.

Bringing back Soothing Winds
No, not at all. This was a trait that was never taken by any elet, and it was for a REASON. It was negligible and the Air line is (or should be) for damage.

Removing Prot from EC
Nope. This will hurt the burst elet way more than it will the D/D ele. Final Shielding is still a bad.
We need to wait for the final condi damage changes, namely the change to burning. After the burning changes, we will most likely see a very different landscape. And if not, then we move on to the next item that sticks out like a sore thumb. Not that it matters, everything is still up in the air now anyways and will be thrown out the window when HoT actually launches.

The diamond skin suggestion was actually both a nerf and a buff. Let me explain why. It’s a nerf in the sense that you have to actively go in earth to proc resistance for 4 secs. But in the hands of a skilled ele player, that’s actually a buff. Hence why I suggested it to promote more skillful play. Having passive immunity to all condis across attunements above 90% hp…Not a fan of it. The nerf/buff I suggested is actually better and stronger in the right ele’s hands. Can you see it?

Precision to healing trait. Don’t forget that they took out stats out of the traitlines. So it might be worth taking now that your main power/prec/ferocity comes from the runes/amulets at the moment. You’ll still retain most of the burst while losing 1 dmg modifier. I don’t think it’s worth overlooking this trait. Might be better than you think considering the new changes.

I’ll have to agree to disagree on soothing ice. It has too much synergy with a lot of traits in many ways. If you trait into earth, not only does it proc protection, but it also procs a regen and a condi cleanse all FROM ONE TRAIT. Yeah, that doesn’t feel right to me. And it’s rng too. If you want to keep the trait itself as a whole, then I suggest raising the icd to reduce the “sustainability” of eles as a whole since the sustain is pretty good on cele.

Glad we agreed on BA and burning.

As for the might stacking, I’m aware that we could stack might pretty high pre patch but that actually required more self active/awareness of rotations. But right now, they dumbed down the might stacking and that’s what I want to adjust. Again, to promote skillful play.

Again, I have to emphasize that I hope you see the nerf/buff aspect of my DS rework. It can be super strong but requires more active play to pull it off.

Lettuce.2945:

It’s funny how you agreed with me without realizing it. I’ll point it out. And you contradicted yourself. You said that eles can stack too much might at this point then said that they stack it a lot especially in the BA line…

I didn’t agree with you nor I’m contradicting myself.
‘’Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.’’
This is what I said and for the third time I’ve explained to you that PP is not where the might comes from. You want to nerf a trait, which is already weaker than the other two traits and gets used very little. Even d/d ele without fire can stack 25 might on their own btw.

Lettuce.2945:

Low base survivability but when traited, too strong. Hence…My suggestions to tone down some of “said” traits that are “too strong”. You just said to raise the icd of soothing ice…Which is what I said. Funny guy. The regen portion of it actually syncs with cleanse on regen…It’s not the “800” heal that’s too strong.

No, I said that the suggestion to remove the regeneration would do nothing. It’s one cleanse every 20 seconds, which can be wasted on something completely irrelevant, I don’t see the problem there, especially when this is used by zerker eles, which do not have so much access to regeneration as celestial eles.

Lettuce.2945:

The rework to diamond skin would promote more skillful play. It will promote more skillful play. You somewhat agreed with me here yet didn’t because you want it passively across all attunements. So it’s confirmed that you do want to be carried by passive play.

Yep, because swapping to earth is so skillful. It’s actually harder to manage all your attunements than just swapping to earth every time you’re getting low. No one would use this under your conditions, it wouldn’t be worth it and able to compete with Stone heart.

Lettuce.2945:

The sustain can be somewhat nerfed by what I mentioned. Part of it is because of the rng passive traits contributing to us being able to “sustain”.

No, mostly because the sustain has no counterplay. You cannot interrupt attuning to water nor dodging in it.

Lettuce.2945:

Did I ever say blinding ashes was skillful? It never will be, no matter how much you look at it. When you actually pvp, you can’t keep track of when it’ll proc.

Oh, come on. You can keep track of your procs, it’s not that hard. I never said the cooldown shouldn’t be increased, I just pointed out that won’t change the nature of the trait.

Lettuce.2945:

EC is useful at the moment if you want to look at it from a “useful” standpoint. It provides more rng boons. (Which is what I don’t like about this trait…the rng). So stop making it out to be completely useless because it isn’t.

I actually have stated several times why I think the suggestions are wrong and what I think would be better, not my issue you cannot comprehend the information. Elemental Contigiency is only taken because the protection and partly because there’s nothing better in the slot. It’s also not a great trait because it procs on hit, which is not something you really want on ele. I do not think it’s a good idea to remove the protection, then it will be basically a trait taken just because there’s nothng else. Completely removing it and replacing it with something else would be better imo. I agree the protection uptime is high enough, but I don’t agree the way you want to do it, so no.

Lettuce.2945:

My precision to healing power was a shot in the dark considering some of the fresh air eles that I know talking about how they wanted a bit more sustain. Having a “lack” of damage on marauders/zerk? Yeah, right. No. The damage will still be there despite losing out on ONE damage modifier.

So these eles want more sustain and think it would be a good idea to get 100-200 healing power that would do basically nothing since scaling is just horrible? Doesn’t seem like a great idea. The sustain is not really that bad on zerker, so I imagine on marauder it’s pretty good.

The damage of s/x fresh air is actually an issue, but that mostly comes from the fact scepter is just crap. You have burst, but you have low sustained damage, all AA’s are just plain horrible. The fact Fresh Air is bugged doesn’t help either. Also, fresh air lost air training and bolt to the heart, which was quite a lot. And that’s not even the problem, you want a decent trait mainly used in pve convert into something utterly useless.

onevsone.2098:

I found condi formulas totally wrong.

Damage base is too high and it scales not well with condi damage.

It’s a totally no sense a zerk classe con hit you with over 1k+ damage of burning.

1k damage of burning is insane for a condi class, a totally broken thing for a no condi specialized class.

Condis are not DoT anymore it’s like spike damage, passive, it’s a really no sense.

Pls lower the condis formulas a lot for zerk class and celestial class and promote only 1.2k+ condi damage classes (pure condi profs).

Meanwhile I hit around 150-250 on burning. Sigh, flamestrike.

I don’t think the issue is the scaling but the fact some classes can quickly apply high amount of stacks on you.

There are so many more bugs for the Elementalist…

There are 5 constant bugs with the build I play.

-Lightning Rod: When a foe attempts to dodge roll across Unsteady Ground (Earth Staff skill 4) and is disabled by Unsteady Ground, this trait’s lightning strike proc misses.
-Lightning Rod: When using Conjure Earth Shield skills 3 or 4 (Magnetic Surge or Magnetic Shield), this trait’s lightning strike procs consume an additional Conjure weapon charge per foe disabled.
-Lightning Rod: When using Conjure Earth Shield skills 3 or 4 (Magnetic Surge or Magnetic Shield), this trait’s lightning strike procs will be blocked if you disable a foe who is blocking, despite interrupting the block.
-Soothing Power: Only increases the effectiveness of Soothing Mist by 100% (tooltip says 200%.)
- Conjure Earth Shield’s extra toughness and vitality do not count toward the bonus from Strength of Stone or Rune of the Undead for the toughness, or Rune of the Scavenger for vitality.

So yeah… Fun stuff when I have to constantly deal with those bugs. I encounter them at least 3 or 4 times each game OR even each fights.

Laraley.7695:

Snip

Confirmed you have nothing to contribute. Thanks for the “worthless” arguments. At least the other guy was constructive and actually seemed knowledgable. Lol’ed at your soothing ice backpedal, going into earth is more active than current DS (your argument being that it’s not active) , and BA is easy to keep track of? You lost all credibility just by saying that. You, on the other hand…Not so much.

Lettuce.2945:

At least the other guy was constructive and actually seemed knowledgable.

Gee, thanks…. your opinion of me is flattering and so important to me…

And regarding your DS argument – I still think this is a bad change. This makes the trait more powerful, but also less useful. 75% health marker is easily kept (much easier than 90%) even in a teamfight unless you’re being trained. Your 4 second window of no Resistance gives the illusion of “counterplay” as it’s just pile on the condi’s right as it falls off, knock them below the 75% marker and keep them there while the ele struggles to bring himself above that level.

The play around the 90% mark is more skillful and IMO better than your suggestion as it isn’t that you’re looking for a window, but that you’re just playing around that marker. It just takes one or 2 autos from a power build to knock you below that 90% marker and then a necro or other condi class can keep you below that once you run out of condi clears (which you will).In both situations you will need to be trained to bring you below a health marker, but in your suggestion the length of time of condi resistance is actually longer because it’s easier to hover above the 75% mark than it is to be around the 90% mark (even with the condi damage uptime of 50%) due to cleanses. The 25% health cushion along with the rotations of condi cleanses means that I will definitely be able to keep condi’s off of me far longer than I would if it was at the 90% mark even if I was trained by 2 people.

Oh and the Frost Aura thing, it’s 2 traits to take to make it that powerful. The Frost Aura trait isn’t meant to be a condi counter, it’s a direct damage counter. The regen is just a way to try to compensate for just getting crit. The synergy with the Grandmaster is just icing on the cake. You say it’s super powerful, let’s look at how many condi cleanses an ele has in the normal Earth/Water/Arcana build:

From Procs:
3 (max) condi cleanses per minute from Frost Aura proc + GM – Assuming you get crit every 20 seconds on the 20 second mark
6 (max) condi cleanses per minute from Evasive Arcana – Assuming you swap to water + dodge roll every 10 seconds on the mark
3 from Cantrip Regen per minute – Assuming you use every cantrip on cooldown
6 (max) condi cleanses from swapping to water – Assuming you swap to water + dodge roll every 10 seconds on the mark

18 (max) total if we meet all the assumptions. In a real match, this will never ever happen as we don’t (or shouldn’t) spam swaps/cantrips like that. Every condi cleanse listed there is actually pretty kitten good as far as cost/effect as they all require you to use something or get punished(getting hit with a crit).

Removing the regen from the Frost Aura proc or increasing the ICD isn’t really going to affect much as far as condi cleansing (as it is random and on the condition of being crit) or heals as the heal (with no healing power) is 520 over 4.5 seconds and with the celestial amulet is increased to 567 healing. It’s not huge, and it won’t affect anything in the long run. The synergy is strong, and it should be.

To get that amount of condi cleanses you’re taking 5 traits and locking yourself to 2 lines (Evasive Arcana, Elemental Attunement, Soothing Ice, Soothing Disruption, Cleansing Wave). You’re dedicating your build to cleansing condi’s and boon generation, there needs to be a good reward for it. If you increase the ICD of Soothing Ice any more it becomes a trait that’s worthless. 2 per minute? Not worth. It’s not super powerful as it requires you to get critically hit. I mean, with the amount of health & armor you have that is normally a rather large hit and is a good chunk of your health. Also, this condi cleanse can be baited out rather easily, so there is that too.

Bhawb.7408:

Zetsumei.4975:

I don’t see what’s the problem with the necro trait last rites? You can still be dps’s and stomped all it prevents is bleeding out. Are you complaining of what happens if the enemy leave them completely alone? In that case all professions can do the same thing bu casting #4

The problem is Last Rites prevents all players near the Necromancer from bleeding out. If you have two downed Necromancers next to each other they will each prevent the other from bleeding out. So as long as one person is nearby to make sure they don’t use 4, those Necromancers can remain downed permanently with no way to stop it.

Ohhh as in to troll/stall the necros in a match ok I see, I thought people were saying it was OP for the necros.