Guild Wars 2

Hello good people,

I am here to share my opinion about this pvp season and my frustration on one particular class. Also I got two accounts to legendary in soloQ with 85% and 90% winrate. Even if it could be pure luck, I hope it will avoid me some “learn to dodge” or those kinds of comments. ;p

This season was more balanced than the last one, you could play every class in ranked without getting an “Omg, we have a xxxx, free lose, afk spawn”.

I will talk only about 2 classes, the other are more or less fine.
-The elementalist
Well, it’s pretty simple, if you have an elementalist in your team and the ennemie don’t have one, you win. Exept if there is a huge skill difference between the two teams, but our dear matchmaking is avoiding that. ;p
More seriously, it gives a bit too much sustain but it’s killable. When they’re in earth, wait for them to switch attunement, chain the control (corrupt stability if needed) and they should fall.

-The engineer
Huuuuh. Huuuuuh. Unkillable, I couldn’t kill someone who played an engineer for 30 minutes.
The hammers CDs are too low. An auto attack giving power, a reflect missile every 6 sec, a 12 sec Evade dash (3 times leap combo finisher), a 2 sec block every 20 and an AoE DoT Stun every 24 sec.
The weapon is extremly defensiv, yet it deals much dammages and the CDs are way too low for what it does. Especialy the leap. The leap deals insane dammage while evading + combo finisher leap 3 times for 12 sec CDs, also grating stability because evading an attack. The 5 AoE is barely dodgable, when the hammer is raised, the AoE is allready there. This skill should not be castable while turning your back on the target.
The gyro -50 % dammages more the protection everytime they get CCed (for 5 sec CD) makes retaliation deals more dammages than I do.
Giving stability when they evade an attack is overpowered. We can’t even 100-0 them because of the passiv. When they’re about to die, they can run away with superspeed and reflect projectives and no way to catch them with their mobility, they come back in 10 sec with full life, every CDs up. They have a self sustain way too high + "the create a medical kit every time they get a critical hit (2 sec CDs).
Also the “All heal skills recharge when you get to 25 % life” pared with the auto immune drive me crazy. Un-kill-able.
Also I have realy hard time to avoid Gyro CC, but it could be my fault there. Also giving 5 stability stack because stability on dodges wasn’t enought is a great idea.
Too much mobility, too much sustain, too low CDs.

Also, I’m surprised I haven’t seen much post against this class, I hope I am not alone finding them overpowered.

I will try to posts videos later to prove what I just wrote.

Sorry, we seen those counter thread too much.

All classes and builds got counter.

Scrapper melt in 1v2 if they don’t juke properly. And Juking is hard versus 2 players that know what they are doing.

Scrapper got nerf a lot since HoT, while other spec where not nerf at all.

Scrapper is tanky by nature but will never ever do the same damage than REV or Thief.

Scrapper is bruisers, while REV or Thief are roamer DPS.

I can claim that REV need some sustain shave, so they fit the role of roamer squishy DPS. I find it really hard to “escaped” a revenant mobility and their burst is higher than the sustain from bruisers spec.

But guess what… it’s probably right to have REV > bruisers (scrappers) because they are bad versus condies.

Rock, paper and scissors is fine actually. It was bad in October 2015.

I would probably want more VIABLE spec into META than nerfing META spec to have less viable build.

If they nerf something VIABLE, they should nerf them ALL. This would open up build diversity.

But nerf… usually bring a lot of turn over, where your player base start playing something else.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Bruisers and Support are fine, what is not is the CONDI burst from mesmer, warrior and reaper… and of course, those same condi users will CRY a lot to nerf Tempest and Scrapper, the only viable AOE cleanses classes on META actually.

I play a power build with absolutely 0 cleanse condi, realy 0. And I have less problem with the conditions spike than the engineer.
Since rev get the spell 2 from sword nerf, I think their burst is fine. Just scale your defensiv cooldown on their attacks.

Also, If your main argument is “I can’t hold a 1 v 2 during 10 minutes so this class is not op”, well…There is nothing to discuss.

Also, here is one of my video, playing full metal zerk, no inspi fire air on both switch :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkVHb-S478g

At 1:20, I duel a warrior and at least, he is killable.
At 4:20 you can see me duelling a bit an elem to keep a point, watch the sustain and tell me it’s fine. Sorry, I have nothing better to show right now, I’ll record better examples later. A duel against an engineer I think.

I play an engi, when I play a pure damage build (even with demolisher), I can’t wear an ele down. If I use my hybrid build that runs about 800 condi damage I can eliminate them much more reliably. They basically do very well at soaking pure damage and your not seeming to do any condi to them. They will hold you off forever. Your build is not a good choice for that situation.

Your problems are made worse because you are zerker so you keep running off point and aren’t keeping the DPS pressure up. (because you can’t take hits which makes sense given your amulet)

You’re build is a flexible high spike damage capable with decent DPS one that picks off people whom are not fully vested in defences. You can snipe from far off locations, and you have optional portal versatility for back capping giving you unprecedented map presence. You have great +1 potential.
You should be able to hurt an engi with that, how an engi counters this is not standing there and face tanking it, but rather coming for you. Because my engi build doesn’t use the gyros, I need to figure out where the mez is and come for them immediately or I will die. This becomes a game of skill at this point. If you give the bunkerish engi too much time in between assaults they will heal up, because your spike isn’t enough to one shot them. Nor should it be, the engis you are fighting are taking things like sigil of water, and they are taking a trait line that gives them an extra healk when they go below thrshold. They are giving up firearms. They will not be able to counter an ele with DPS damage because of these choices and so are weakening the flexibility of their build.

In general don’t stand on point against an engi if you 1 v 1 them. You’ll have to concede point take them out then cap it back. A close up mesmer is exactly what I want.

As far as taking away stability on evade, the engi only has one skill that grants it. elixr b. If you removed the on evade trait you’d just further force all engineers to take gyro, limiting even the little bit of build diversity we have. I will refrain from making suggestions about your class, but you should probably not make any specific change ideas about the engi unless you understand the full scope of how your suggestions would play out.

Incidentally, to kill the current meta engi I use condition damage. My hybrid build is more effective at it then my pure power with a little more sustain build. That just draws to a stale mate where each of us has put too much in defence to eliminate the other.

Actually, I play every class on this game, also I like challenge so I play power zerk mes to get to legendary and I can down ele, no worries.

“Your problems are made worse because you are zerker so you keep running off point and aren’t keeping the DPS pressure up.”

Well, mesmer has no DPS, it’s a burst class…So yeah.

As I said, I play everything, engi too (even if it’s boring) and I’ll do as much as I can to get the meta engineer nerf.

“because your spike isn’t enough to one shot them.”

My spike is enought, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOnEyHwgo34, Watch at the begining, I have no problem at one shotting druid (wich are quite bunkerish). I can’t do it with engineer because they have a passiv wich save them. They don’t even need to click on a button, auto passiv immune at 25 % life + getting back healing passiv at 25 %.

“As far as taking away stability on evade, the engi only has one skill that grants it. elixr b. If you removed the on evade trait you’d just further force all engineers to take gyro, limiting even the little bit of build diversity we have. "

Do you even realise what you’re saying. You have 3 ways to get stability and it’s not enought for you. If getting stability on dodge for a bunker with 5 sec CD looks like a good idea to you, I can’t agree with you.

I don’t know why you are talking about your own build, I am only talking about the opness of the meta engineer, not the other builds.

Imo scrapper only needs small changes, they aren’t as bad as many think. It’s true they have good sustain but their burst is very predictable. You dodge the hammer 5 and hammer 3 and it neuters their offence. Given this, a scrapper is still very forgiving to play and they do need some small nerfs.

I think the most important thing would be nerfing the functionality of the hammer skills (compensate on auto attack or #2 skill so they don’t lose dps). Hammer 3 should have a 15s cd and it should only evade on the first 2 leaps. Hammer 4 should completely have its damage gutted. Hammer 5 should have a 1s cast time, but increase the vuln stacks to 5. Their gyros are fine. Function gyro is a bit op, but I can’t think of a reasonable nerf that wouldn’t gut it. The toolbelt skill of bulwark gyro (defensive field) needs to be changed to projectile block instead of reflect though. Almost all other things I hear people complain about honestly have decent counterplay.

I agree with you Arcaedus, in general anyway, nerf should be slight or it kills the build.

Baroness.5147:

Actually, I play every class on this game, also I like challenge so I play power zerk mes to get to legendary and I can down ele, no worries.
Actually I can down everything, exept engineer.

“Your problems are made worse because you are zerker so you keep running off point and aren’t keeping the DPS pressure up.”

Well, mesmer has no DPS, it’s a burst class…So yeah.

As I said, I play everything, engi too (even if it’s boring) and I’ll do as much as I can to get the meta engineer nerf.

“because your spike isn’t enough to one shot them.”

My spike is enought, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOnEyHwgo34, Watch at the begining, I have no problem at one shotting druid (wich are quite bunkerish). I can’t do it with engineer because they have a passiv wich save them. They don’t even need to click on a button, auto passiv immune at 25 % life + getting back healing passiv at 25 %.

“As far as taking away stability on evade, the engi only has one skill that grants it. elixr b. If you removed the on evade trait you’d just further force all engineers to take gyro, limiting even the little bit of build diversity we have. "

Do you even realise what you’re saying. You have 3 ways to get stability and it’s not enought for you. If getting stability on dodge for a bunker with 5 sec CD looks like a good idea to you, I can’t agree with you.

I don’t know why you are talking about your own build, I am only talking about the opness of the meta engineer, not the other builds.

I realize what I’m saying, the only skill worth counting on for reliable situation stability useage elixr B. You can get it off some rumble on a toolbelt that isn’t viable for PvP, You can’t count on getting feared at the right time to get stability via elixr C, and noone is going to use up an elixr X just to get stability.

Your complaining that your all out zerk build that does only power damage can’t hurt a bruiser who’s build choices are made to counter it. You might find that one build does not fit all possible situations and that if you re-tweaked to condi you could say have your conditions kill them before they even got out of elixr S. or that you moa them so they don’t have access to their elixr C if they’re carrying it… etc. etc.

As an engi I make my choices and pick the fights I can win. You need to do the same. If you want to make something to be more competitive against engi’s you’ll need to change up your build.

I do not want to be more competitive against engi’s. This has nothing to do with me. I just want a more balanced game, everything looks quite fine exept engis.
Also, please stop presuming I’m only playing zerk builds.

as much as I hate engis, i think they are mostly ok now

move on to ele

For the amount of insane sustain they have, their damage needs nerfed. It needs to go one way or the other. They’re basically bunkers with damage. My friends are constantly talking about how they break 700k in games when I’m with them, all while holding points 1v2 and pretty much never dying.

Engi needs:

-Less projectile hate

-Less defensive hammer skills

-Less passive boon generation

-a Bigger icd on the Elixir S proc

-Gyro self destruct when destroyed nerfed

-Function gyro needs a small cast time

Of course, this is assuming all of the other E specs are nerfed in the same manner

Jourdelune.7456:

Sorry, we seen those counter thread too much.

All classes and builds got counter.

Scrapper melt in 1v2 if they don’t juke properly. And Juking is hard versus 2 players that know what they are doing.

Wtf? How is this an valid argument? Someone needs 2 people to be killed and you defend it? Shame on you.

alchemyst.2165:

For the amount of insane sustain they have, their damage needs nerfed. It needs to go one way or the other. They’re basically bunkers with damage. My friends are constantly talking about how they break 700k in games when I’m with them, all while holding points 1v2 and pretty much never dying.

It’s easy to do a lot of damage when you can’t kill anyone.

Holding 1v2 versus bad, is easy with Druids, Ele, Revenant, Reaper, Warrior, Mesmer… named it. This is skill versus skills issues.

Scrapper is less bunker than Tempest or Bunker Guard, so they do more sustain damage than the cleric bunker of the game.

Damage from Scrapper is less bursty and lower than other roamer marauder.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Jourdelune.7456:

Sorry, we seen those counter thread too much.

All classes and builds got counter.

Scrapper melt in 1v2 if they don’t juke properly. And Juking is hard versus 2 players that know what they are doing.

Wtf? How is this an valid argument? Someone needs 2 people to be killed and you defend it? Shame on you.

@verbal abuse

You shame me, but you didn’t learn to read properly.

I said that doing 1v2 is not easy and need skill.

You can do that versus 2 people that don’t know how to play together. But you can’t at high level without a lot of skill.

Sure, the amount of block and evade is high, but Bunker Mesmer got more block and evade and are not Meta.

Scrapper at high level is balanced with other high level player with a meta build.

I can 1v2 all day with a none viable bunker guard spec, with a none viable trap ranger spec, without HOT and more.

1v2 are not supposed to happen if you play versus players that know what they are doing.

So, claiming otherwise actually, just show that you don’t.

Want some more? Shame me up again for an invalid argument, when you didn’t take the time to read it properly.

Don’t all AOE folks get better numbers on damage dealt? I mean assuming your doing the smart thing and getting a couple of folks with the same AOE hit. Also the fact that you can do ridiculous numbers of damage means you are not actually being very effective at killing the people your doing damage too. I can do huge numbers of damage against two eles holding a point and it means I’m playing very poorly. They won’t ever die and my number looks huge, and basically I’ve done nothing towards taking that point at all.

This is getting silly if these are the metrics your going to use to try to make these decisions.

Scrapper, premier noob stomping profession, really survivable especially at beginner level, really effective against beginner players who simply lock into melee range and trade blows like it’s Runescape classic. Really effective at cleaving downstate, compounded again because people don’t know how to live/kite.

When players have mastered their professions in that they can do damage correctly, and know how to avoid damage, balance between professions is good. In that context, Scrapper is balanced.

For supports, Ele is mandatory, Scrapper or Druid can be taken. So I don’t predict Scrapper to be singled out for nerfs

Jourdelune.7456:

I said that doing 1v2 is not easy and need skill.

So, if scrapper knows what he is doing, he should hold against 2 people and that isn’t a problem? Needing 3 people to kill 1 skilled scrapper, because he can hold 2 people, that is not a reason to nerf this class to the ground?

Yes, now i see. Scrapper ins’t broken, you just need to hope that enemy team will 1 scrapper and no more, because if they have 2, you would need 6 people to bring them down.

I’ve not seen scrappers consistently hold against two equally skilled people. Once the sustain is overcome with damage its time for them to hit the hills and run., or stand on point to keep it that last little bit. Show me some pro league examples where scrappers do this 2 on 1 thing and hold point to a stand still on a repeated basis.

This conversation is getting beyond silly.

Scrapper has been balanced since last round of nerfs. 2v1 with all players of equal skill, the scrapper will not hold very long before they Elixir S the point away or need to stealth gyro kite, both of which lose the cap.

They cannot chase, you should not die to Elixir gun autos.

I do believe that scrappers need a change to encourage more active play from gyros other than popping them, letting them die, then reaping all the benefits. That is more of a skill floor change and needs more tweaking. But as far as damage and survivability goes, they are fine. They will never kill a Cleric Ele alone, and they will never indefinitely hold a 2v1.

shion.2084:

I’ve not seen scrappers consistently hold against two equally skilled people. Once the sustain is overcome with damage its time for them to hit the hills and run., or stand on point to keep it that last little bit. Show me some pro league examples where scrappers do this 2 on 1 thing and hold point to a stand still on a repeated basis.

This conversation is getting beyond silly.

Yeah this is true, nothing can indefinitely hold 1v2 on point. I’d say the 1v2 uptime of the professions meta builds in holding a point in descending order go: Ele, Engi, Druid, Warrior, Necro/Mes/Rev tied for 5th.

Keep in mind an Engineer running paladin amulet is not a healer, and not even the longest 1v2.

Are all meta builds completely bonkers? Yeah. Look at what your options are though

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Jourdelune.7456:

I said that doing 1v2 is not easy and need skill.

So, if scrapper knows what he is doing, he should hold against 2 people and that isn’t a problem? Needing 3 people to kill 1 skilled scrapper, because he can hold 2 people, that is not a reason to nerf this class to the ground?

Yes, now i see. Scrapper ins’t broken, you just need to hope that enemy team will 1 scrapper and no more, because if they have 2, you would need 6 people to bring them down.

Ok… Learn to read did some thing.

Now, let’s Chaith say the same thing than me, with better words:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balancing-Engineers-diserve-a-nerf/first#post6243000

Thank you Chaith.

alchemyst.2165:

For the amount of insane sustain they have, their damage needs nerfed. It needs to go one way or the other. They’re basically bunkers with damage. My friends are constantly talking about how they break 700k in games when I’m with them, all while holding points 1v2 and pretty much never dying.

The overall damage that is show at the end may confuse a little. I sam that when have games with alot of sustain, when none team can get an advantage I get bigger damage values. Long story short when I play bunker I get bigger overall damage.

pico.6402:

alchemyst.2165:

For the amount of insane sustain they have, their damage needs nerfed. It needs to go one way or the other. They’re basically bunkers with damage. My friends are constantly talking about how they break 700k in games when I’m with them, all while holding points 1v2 and pretty much never dying.

The overall damage that is show at the end may confuse a little. I sam that when have games with alot of sustain, when none team can get an advantage I get bigger damage values. Long story short when I play bunker I get bigger overall damage.

The burstier you are, the less damage you do in general, and the more focused your damage is, the less damage you do in general.

Scrapper has massive damage numbers because it’s sustained AoE damage, the opposite of bursty single target damage.

I agree. Engineer has too many great skills on short CDs. Doesn’t make any sense at all. Oh, God, the amount of projectile reflection they have is seriously too much. Make their skills absorb projectiles instead of reflect projectiles. Maybe update a trait that allows absorption to become reflection. Engie is in a ridiculously strong state at the moment. When I fight Engies that know what they’re doing there’s literally nothing I can do, unless I’m outrageously lucky.

mrauls.6519:

I agree. Engineer has too many great skills on short CDs. Doesn’t make any sense at all. Oh, God, the amount of projectile reflection they have is seriously too much. Make their skills absorb projectiles instead of reflect projectiles. Maybe update a trait that allows absorption to become reflection. Engie is in a ridiculously strong state at the moment. When I fight Engies that know what they’re doing there’s literally nothing I can do, unless I’m outrageously lucky.

FeelsDragonhunterMan, I am sorry for your pain

It’s a tough fight for a guardian vs an engi. But I’d rather see the guardian tweaked a bit to have anti engi options at the expense of trap spam then to unbalance the class dyanmic of the other classes which is actually pretty close.

For instance, I’ve actually been blind sided by a burn guard I wasn’t prepared for. maybe a viable option in that direction to use condi effects.

Chaith.8256:

Scrapper has massive damage numbers because it’s sustained AoE damage, the opposite of bursty single target damage.

don’t forget to mention that it’s also because each Hammer attack hits harder than backstab in terms of base damage.

“hurr durr but thief still hits harder!”; only because we have to trait for all of our damage modifiers while Scrapper’s base damage is good enough to let them invest entirely in defensive traits, even going so far as making Scrapper the only profession that can effectively use Paladin’s because they don’t need the ferocity from Marauder’s/Demolisher’s so long as they have Hammer.

aside from broken base damage, the biggest issue w/Scrapper is it’s gyros. I don’t understand how anyone can defend them given the fact Engineer had a nearly identical Turret build that everyone despised and got nerfed, when this is the same exact thing except now the Turrets can move, absorb damage/reflect (also the reflect on Bulwark gyro is too deceptive, it lasts longer than the bubble actual animation), provide a movable shadow refuge/sic ’em, and also give Scrapper an insane amount of stability in combination with Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo.

specifically speaking the issue is with Final Salvo. this trait needs a heavy rework, it does WAY too much within one trait, and is rewarding completely passive play. the lightning field is too long and the stability is overkill when they already have perfectly weighted.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

Scrapper has massive damage numbers because it’s sustained AoE damage, the opposite of bursty single target damage.

don’t forget to mention that it’s also because each Hammer attack hits harder than backstab in terms of base damage.

“hurr durr but thief still hits harder!”; only because we have to trait for all of our damage modifiers while Scrapper’s base damage is good enough to let them invest entirely in defensive traits, even going so far as making Scrapper the only profession that can effectively use Paladin’s because they don’t need the ferocity from Marauder’s/Demolisher’s so long as they have Hammer.

aside from broken base damage, the biggest issue w/Scrapper is it’s gyros. I don’t understand how anyone can defend them given the fact Engineer had a nearly identical Turret build that everyone despised and got nerfed, when this is the same exact thing except now the Turrets can move, absorb damage/reflect (also the reflect on Bulwark gyro is too deceptive, it lasts longer than the bubble actual animation), provide a movable shadow refuge/sic ’em, and also give Scrapper an insane amount of stability in combination with Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo.

specifically speaking the issue is with Final Salvo. this trait needs a heavy rework, it does WAY too much within one trait, and is rewarding completely passive play. the lightning field is too long and the stability is overkill when they already have perfectly weighted.

Take this +1!

I disagree. Yes, scrapper can be very annoying, but the meta is very stable within itself, only projectile hate keeps meditrapper out of it.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

Scrapper has massive damage numbers because it’s sustained AoE damage, the opposite of bursty single target damage.

don’t forget to mention that it’s also because each Hammer attack hits harder than backstab in terms of base damage.

“hurr durr but thief still hits harder!”; only because we have to trait for all of our damage modifiers while Scrapper’s base damage is good enough to let them invest entirely in defensive traits, even going so far as making Scrapper the only profession that can effectively use Paladin’s because they don’t need the ferocity from Marauder’s/Demolisher’s so long as they have Hammer.

aside from broken base damage, the biggest issue w/Scrapper is it’s gyros. I don’t understand how anyone can defend them given the fact Engineer had a nearly identical Turret build that everyone despised and got nerfed, when this is the same exact thing except now the Turrets can move, absorb damage/reflect (also the reflect on Bulwark gyro is too deceptive, it lasts longer than the bubble actual animation), provide a movable shadow refuge/sic ’em, and also give Scrapper an insane amount of stability in combination with Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo.

specifically speaking the issue is with Final Salvo. this trait needs a heavy rework, it does WAY too much within one trait, and is rewarding completely passive play. the lightning field is too long and the stability is overkill when they already have perfectly weighted.

Agreed. Their sustain traits, combined with gyros, simply make for very easy, automatic, passive sustain and defense. While not bursty, their damage is sustained that this is a problem combined with their amount of defense and tankiness.

sinject.4607:

hurr durr but thief still hits harder!

If Scrappers or Druids, or any class did the damage of ten backstabs in one single auto-attack, the hyperbole is pretty meaningless if it’s not actually standing out in the meta-game as an outlier on the overpowered end. Wait until the balance patch to see, I’m calling no nerfs to Scrapper, but I’m not counting on anything.

After the changes to Scrapper last major patch, the persistence of these threads amounts to a Scissors rant about Rock

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

hurr durr but thief still hits harder!

If Scrappers or Druids, or any class did the damage of ten backstabs in one single auto-attack, the hyperbole is pretty meaningless if it’s not actually standing out in the meta-game as an outlier on the overpowered end. Wait until the balance patch to see, I’m calling no nerfs to Scrapper, but I’m not counting on anything.

After the changes to Scrapper last major patch, the persistence of these threads amounts to a Scissors rant about Rock

the only reason scrapper doesnt look like as much of outlier as it used to be is the presence of condition specs everyone widely agrees to be overtuned

you subtract Macezerkers/Condi Chronos/Reapers and Scrapper is easily capable of being a completely overbearing force in the meta. it has no bad power match ups whatsoever.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

hurr durr but thief still hits harder!

If Scrappers or Druids, or any class did the damage of ten backstabs in one single auto-attack, the hyperbole is pretty meaningless if it’s not actually standing out in the meta-game as an outlier on the overpowered end. Wait until the balance patch to see, I’m calling no nerfs to Scrapper, but I’m not counting on anything.

After the changes to Scrapper last major patch, the persistence of these threads amounts to a Scissors rant about Rock

the only reason scrapper doesnt look like as much of outlier as it used to be is the presence of condition specs everyone widely agrees to be overtuned

you subtract Macezerkers/Condi Chronos/Reapers and Scrapper is easily capable of being a completely overbearing force in the meta. it has no bad power match ups whatsoever.

1. We will probably never go back to a meta completely free of condition builds, so subtracting the condition builds and claiming Scrapper is OP in that perspective is pointless.

2. Revenant vs Scrapper is EZ.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

hurr durr but thief still hits harder!

If Scrappers or Druids, or any class did the damage of ten backstabs in one single auto-attack, the hyperbole is pretty meaningless if it’s not actually standing out in the meta-game as an outlier on the overpowered end. Wait until the balance patch to see, I’m calling no nerfs to Scrapper, but I’m not counting on anything.

After the changes to Scrapper last major patch, the persistence of these threads amounts to a Scissors rant about Rock

the only reason scrapper doesnt look like as much of outlier as it used to be is the presence of condition specs everyone widely agrees to be overtuned

you subtract Macezerkers/Condi Chronos/Reapers and Scrapper is easily capable of being a completely overbearing force in the meta. it has no bad power match ups whatsoever.

So everything’s OP, great.

Scrappers deserve a big nerf, this is true.

Yes, it is pretty on-par with most other meta builds, and is arguably even better in solo-Q due to being so effective in 1v1’s while packing good team support (basically d/d ele 2.0). Yes, it is partially “held in check” by condi-spam builds holding the game back.

However, EVERY HoT spec NEEDS pretty big nerfs. Ele sustain needs a reduction, scrapper damage and sustain needs a cut, rev hard-mitigation needs a reduction, chrono condi-spam capability needs a cut, etc. All of these things are way over-tuned and it is hurting pvp.

Take a machete to HoT power-creep, start providing some modest buffs to update utlities/weapons that are basically useless, and gw2 will be on a good track.

But if past history is an example, they will be forced to make much too drastic changes due to how infrequent balance changes are. DH will probably be buffed to high heaven, thieves were buffed last patch and are now in a good place, so they will probably likewise be buffed (this is how Anet works), warriors will continue to get more sustain for some reason, some profession will be utterly crippled (my money is on ele or maybe druid), and cyclical imbalance will continue. You will NEVER have true balance and diversity as long as balance happens once in a blue moon.

Scrapper sustain is through the roof…..they add rapid regeneration, elixir B and elixir gun for regen+waterfield obtained from medic gyro…extremely low CD block/reflect that does huge dmg at the same time, sneak gyro to run away….

Takes 20m practice to do good in soloQ on scrapper and you may as well as 0 knowledge of engi..truly sad..never seen a game with more obvious biased devs

I just want to say, with all the ‘nerf engineer’ threads now flying about, to make sure only scrapper is being nerfed and not core engineer. All that nerfing the inventions or alchemy line will do is make core engineer completely unfeasible whereas nerfs to particular scrapper traits, gyros and hammer is what should actually happen if people feel it’s OP.

That said, the skill floor and ceiling for scrapper and both way too close together and the skill floor in particular is way too high. Being able to insta-cast gyros and insta-cast reflects, damage mitigation, healing, etc, just leaves zero counterplay and at the same time becomes mega faceroll. (i.e. use medic gyro as soon as it’s avaliable…) Even killing the low health gyros is a no-go because they give a decent amount of healing upon death still.
On top of that hammer is such a faceroll weapon as well because of the low CD. Leave the damage the same and increasing the cooldowns a little is probably the best course of action as it may bring kit play back, whilst making the hammer a lot less spam/faceroll. Just my opinion though. I might just be too used to using rifle.

Overall, Scrapper just seems way too easy to play as you can mostly just whack as many buttons as possible and you’re pretty much as good as a scrapper can get and never-die in 1v1. This is converse to core engineer where there’s a huge difference between newer and veteran players.

But above all else… Don’t nerf core engineer traitlines.

Bim ! Take this :

-Shock Shield: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50%. The damage displayed for this skill will now compound instead of displaying each instance separately.

-Thunderclap: This skill no longer deals damage on initial impact, but it still stuns enemies. Damage for all pulses has been increased by 26%, for an overall damage increase of 5%.

-Bulwark Gyro: The damage reduction of this skill has been reduced from 50% to 33%.

-Defense Field: The cooldown of this skill has been increased 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

-Gyro Self-Destruct: Decreased the damage of detonating gyros by 17% (PvP only).

-Medic Gyro: This skill now has a 0.5-second casting time.

-Self-Regulating Defenses: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 60 seconds to 75 seconds.

Please, no one tell me this class was balanced prepatch.

This class needs a sustain nerf. Every time I see that healing turret I go whelp gotta start all over again. Then I interrupt it. They go small they invis and then appear full hp and I go whelp gotta start all over again 2 minutes later.. ya this wont end…

We shall see if this is enought, at least they can’t deal as much dammage as before while being immortal. Prepatch, engi were gods amongst insects, it drove me crazy.

Delete scrapper, don’t touch engi core skills. I am angry if anet nerfing skills which scrapper use from core lines. I am sure if he will use granades then they will nerf it too.. Remove rapid regen – problem solved.

David.5974:

Delete scrapper, don’t touch engi core skills. I am angry if anet nerfing skills which scrapper use from core lines. I am sure if he will use granades then they will nerf it too.. Remove rapid regen – problem solved.

This is quite knowledgeable core engineer isn’t an issue.

Zelulose.8695:

David.5974:

Delete scrapper, don’t touch engi core skills. I am angry if anet nerfing skills which scrapper use from core lines. I am sure if he will use granades then they will nerf it too.. Remove rapid regen – problem solved.

This is quite knowledgeable core engineer isn’t an issue.

No, but some traits in invention isn’t much problem until scrapper arrive and use this line to boost his sustain.

Baroness.5147:

Bim ! Take this :

-Shock Shield: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50%. The damage displayed for this skill will now compound instead of displaying each instance separately.

-Thunderclap: This skill no longer deals damage on initial impact, but it still stuns enemies. Damage for all pulses has been increased by 26%, for an overall damage increase of 5%.

-Bulwark Gyro: The damage reduction of this skill has been reduced from 50% to 33%.

-Defense Field: The cooldown of this skill has been increased 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

-Gyro Self-Destruct: Decreased the damage of detonating gyros by 17% (PvP only).

-Medic Gyro: This skill now has a 0.5-second casting time.

-Self-Regulating Defenses: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 60 seconds to 75 seconds.

Please, no one tell me this class was balanced prepatch.

We got nerf much more than that.

But now on Paladin amulet, I am sure I can’t kill anything else than thief and rev. Nice those goodies got some counter around.

Patch Notes:

Reduced scrapper DPS by 50%

Resolved an issue where players were still playing Engineers

Easier fix if you want to get rid of the last few engineer players.

P.S. – The problem is not that the class is overpowered, it is likely because you played someone who is really good. That could have happened on any class…In my opinion though, it is easiest for me to kill while I am playing Warrior, Necromancer, Thief, Mesmer, Ranger….while I struggle with Elementalist and Engineer. This is coming from someone who is not claiming to be good, so the fact that I can run over people on the first 4 classes even though i have no clue what I am doing should really be an apples to apples look at which classes are easy mode.

Reveille.8397:

Patch Notes:

Reduced scrapper DPS by 50%

Resolved an issue where players were still playing Engineers

Easier fix if you want to get rid of the last few engineer players.

P.S. – The problem is not that the class is overpowered, it is likely because you played someone who is really good. That could have happened on any class…In my opinion though, it is easiest for me to kill while I am playing Warrior, Necromancer, Thief, Mesmer, Ranger….while I struggle with Elementalist and Engineer. This is coming from someone who is not claiming to be good, so the fact that I can run over people on the first 4 classes even though i have no clue what I am doing should really be an apples to apples look at which classes are easy mode.

better take some potassium supplements because all that salt can’t be good for your blood pressure.

not a single person is going to take you serious when you start saying things like “elementalist and engineer are harder to play than thief”

Jourdelune.7456:

Sorry, we seen those counter thread too much.

All classes and builds got counter.

Scrapper melt in 1v2 if they don’t juke properly. And Juking is hard versus 2 players that know what they are doing.

Scrapper got nerf a lot since HoT, while other spec where not nerf at all.

Scrapper is tanky by nature but will never ever do the same damage than REV or Thief.

Scrapper is bruisers, while REV or Thief are roamer DPS.

I can claim that REV need some sustain shave, so they fit the role of roamer squishy DPS. I find it really hard to “escaped” a revenant mobility and their burst is higher than the sustain from bruisers spec.

But guess what… it’s probably right to have REV > bruisers (scrappers) because they are bad versus condies.

Rock, paper and scissors is fine actually. It was bad in October 2015.

I would probably want more VIABLE spec into META than nerfing META spec to have less viable build.

If they nerf something VIABLE, they should nerf them ALL. This would open up build diversity.

But nerf… usually bring a lot of turn over, where your player base start playing something else.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Bruisers and Support are fine, what is not is the CONDI burst from mesmer, warrior and reaper… and of course, those same condi users will CRY a lot to nerf Tempest and Scrapper, the only viable AOE cleanses classes on META actually.

Everyone should melt in 1v2 assuming relatively equal skills.

Scrapper may not have DPS but they have a hellacious burst, which is literally the only thing that matters in PvP. 6k+ from missile turret (non-crit) on a warr/rev with protection? That’s half their health. If it crits it’s basically a 1-shot that can’t be blinded/reflected, only invul’d/dodged/blocked. Then you have their 2-3k leap, 3k+ hammer hits, and a few others PLUS condi (even though it’s minor in powerhammer).

Turrets have entirely too much health. When an engi turret has more hp than I do and they can have 2-3 out at once plus themselves, it’s ridiculous.

Scrapper out-DPS’s shield build Rev’s (both current metas) by a long shot. Rev’s are not roaming DPS, they’re support classes (2 of our 3 heals as shield herald are group, plus add prot, even if they’re comparatively tiny heals; tablet from centaur is very very easy to not put in the right place and has a miniscule range even with the 33% buff to it, and even with Mender’s is the weakest dedicated heal in the game). A Rev might, maybe, if he goes full glass-cannon (sword/axe/zerk amulet) do more single-target DPS but in a team fight the scrapper is going to do 3-4x as much.

Much like the complaints about macebow warr in S3, I think Scrapper’s gonna have too much sustain for the damage (particularly AoE) they can put out. I’m not calling for a nerf here, but it’s right on the line of being OP.

Lucred.1802:

Jourdelune.7456:

Sorry, we seen those counter thread too much.

All classes and builds got counter.

Scrapper melt in 1v2 if they don’t juke properly. And Juking is hard versus 2 players that know what they are doing.

Scrapper got nerf a lot since HoT, while other spec where not nerf at all.

Scrapper is tanky by nature but will never ever do the same damage than REV or Thief.

Scrapper is bruisers, while REV or Thief are roamer DPS.

I can claim that REV need some sustain shave, so they fit the role of roamer squishy DPS. I find it really hard to “escaped” a revenant mobility and their burst is higher than the sustain from bruisers spec.

But guess what… it’s probably right to have REV > bruisers (scrappers) because they are bad versus condies.

Rock, paper and scissors is fine actually. It was bad in October 2015.

I would probably want more VIABLE spec into META than nerfing META spec to have less viable build.

If they nerf something VIABLE, they should nerf them ALL. This would open up build diversity.

But nerf… usually bring a lot of turn over, where your player base start playing something else.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Bruisers and Support are fine, what is not is the CONDI burst from mesmer, warrior and reaper… and of course, those same condi users will CRY a lot to nerf Tempest and Scrapper, the only viable AOE cleanses classes on META actually.

Everyone should melt in 1v2 assuming relatively equal skills.

Scrapper may not have DPS but they have a hellacious burst, which is literally the only thing that matters in PvP. 6k+ from missile turret (non-crit) on a warr/rev with protection? That’s half their health. If it crits it’s basically a 1-shot that can’t be blinded/reflected, only invul’d/dodged/blocked. Then you have their 2-3k leap, 3k+ hammer hits, and a few others PLUS condi (even though it’s minor in powerhammer).

Turrets have entirely too much health. When an engi turret has more hp than I do and they can have 2-3 out at once plus themselves, it’s ridiculous.

Scrapper out-DPS’s shield build Rev’s (both current metas) by a long shot. Rev’s are not roaming DPS, they’re support classes (2 of our 3 heals as shield herald are group, plus add prot, even if they’re comparatively tiny heals; tablet from centaur is very very easy to not put in the right place and has a miniscule range even with the 33% buff to it, and even with Mender’s is the weakest dedicated heal in the game). A Rev might, maybe, if he goes full glass-cannon (sword/axe/zerk amulet) do more single-target DPS but in a team fight the scrapper is going to do 3-4x as much.

Much like the complaints about macebow warr in S3, I think Scrapper’s gonna have too much sustain for the damage (particularly AoE) they can put out. I’m not calling for a nerf here, but it’s right on the line of being OP.

anyone who takes you seriously is a fool
everything in this post was innacurate and biased as hell