Guild Wars 2

All this also applies to WvW

Since the Downed State is such an integral part of the games combat system, the players last ditch effort to contribute to the fight. Why is it that the downed states of all the professions are so utterly unbalanced?

We have professions that are guarenteed to avoid the first stomp (Mesmer, Thief, Ele) on one hand.
And professions that can only interupt 1 person, if that person doesnt have stability, if that person isnt in stealth, if you arent blinded, and if you have a direct LoS to that person (Warrior, Engineer) on the otherhand. And varying levels of effectiveness in between.

And then we havent even touched on the damage difference and burst some professions are capable of pumping out, where as others seem to grab the nearest feather in an attempt to tickle a nearby foe.

I am all in favor of profession unique downed state abilities because its fun and all, but keep that stuff in PvE, where it doesnt really matter all that much. But where PvP action is going on, you cannot excuse such big performance disparities in what is a significant part of the games combat system.

Balance it, or standardize the downed state giving everyone the same abilities.

+1
The downed states are extremely unbalanced

+1

Thief downed skills are very useless against monster

Try having a thief stealth just before the stomp. I mostly play mesmer these days which require a target to use any of their skills..your as good as gone. Not to mention from the mesmer perspective after a good drawn duel against a guardian, finally when they downed me they only had a skant 3-4 mm of red left to their health bar. I managed to get 9 stacks of confusion on them, and they still used whirling wrath with total ambivalence. The 9 stacks at best only chewed an additional millimeter of their health. If condition confused state is meant to attack and deterant at best from opponents wanting to use skills, and at worst is meant to represent a dice roll of damage received vs damage given, then it comes pretty short from that envisioned conception.

In all honesty, I’d be a bigger fan of when someone is down, they have a limited second health bar in which, IF there is team mate in close proximity they can rez them, or if your previous opponent is felled while in the down state you get the rally. In other words,..get rid of down state skills completely and have them only apply in PvE.

i m not in favor of removing the downed skills completely, but i sure as hell want our downed abilities to be more balanced.
I agree 100% with terrahero on everything he said.

You guys want more balance? Bring this spectrum down a notch.

Current:

Burst Potential |——————————————Mixed——————————————| Bunker Potential

Balanced:

Burst Potential|————————-Mixed————————|Bunker Potential

No more 2 seconds or less fights, no more 1 person holding his own against 3 or more until help arrives.

THEN remove the downstate.
Balance achieved.

Downed state:

• interrupts the natural pace and flow of combat
• does not spectate well
• is not fun
• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories
• turns a close 4v4/3v3/2v2s into a whitewash because of ridiculous rally mechanics
• promotes instagibbing
• introduces imbalances that wouldn’t otherwise exist

DS should at least be an option on custom arenas. I’m willing to bet that DS-disabled arenas would be more popular than default.

I would be in favour of removing the Down-state altogether from PvP, or at the very least, standardising Down-state skills for all classes.

mjharrison.3209:

Downed state:

• interrupts the natural pace and flow of combat
• does not spectate well
• is not fun
• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories
• turns a close 4v4/3v3/2v2s into a whitewash because of ridiculous rally mechanics
• promotes instagibbing
• introduces imbalances that wouldn’t otherwise exist

DS should at least be an option on custom arenas. I’m willing to bet that DS-disabled arenas would be more popular than default.

Well, when you put it that way… Yeah that’s all pretty true. I like feeling different in this game when I die, but I’m questioning if its worth it just for flavor.

mjharrison.3209:

Downed state:

• interrupts the natural pace and flow of combat
• does not spectate well
• is not fun
• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories
• turns a close 4v4/3v3/2v2s into a whitewash because of ridiculous rally mechanics
• promotes instagibbing
• introduces imbalances that wouldn’t otherwise exist

DS should at least be an option on custom arenas. I’m willing to bet that DS-disabled arenas would be more popular than default.

I agree there are times I have 1v2 or 1v3 people, but it gets me no where when I can’t actually “finish them.” For PvP I don’t like it at all.

mjharrison.3209:

Downed state:

• interrupts the natural pace and flow of combat
• does not spectate well
• is not fun
• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories
• turns a close 4v4/3v3/2v2s into a whitewash because of ridiculous rally mechanics
• promotes instagibbing
• introduces imbalances that wouldn’t otherwise exist

DS should at least be an option on custom arenas. I’m willing to bet that DS-disabled arenas would be more popular than default.

QFT

Terrahero.9358:

All this also applies to WvW

Since the Downed State is such an integral part of the games combat system, the players last ditch effort to contribute to the fight. Why is it that the downed states of all the professions are so utterly unbalanced?

We have professions that are guarenteed to avoid the first stomp (Mesmer, Thief, Ele) on one hand.
And professions that can only interupt 1 person, if that person doesnt have stability, if that person isnt in stealth, if you arent blinded, and if you have a direct LoS to that person (Warrior, Engineer) on the otherhand. And varying levels of effectiveness in between.

And then we havent even touched on the damage difference and burst some professions are capable of pumping out, where as others seem to grab the nearest feather in an attempt to tickle a nearby foe.

I am all in favor of profession unique downed state abilities because its fun and all, but keep that stuff in PvE, where it doesnt really matter all that much. But where PvP action is going on, you cannot excuse such big performance disparities in what is a significant part of the games combat system.

Balance it, or standardize the downed state giving everyone the same abilities.

The downed state is balanced. Also you are wrong about mesmers having a guaranteed to interrupt finisher, because if the enemy went stealth you cannot use downed state 2 due to no target. Also for thieves, a thief can shadowstep without interrupting finisher to downed person if they move away.

Unless the Thief downed you with CnD, you can instantly wiff away and get off into a stealth. And that is assuming the Thief is the only one around you and there is no other target.
But alright, its slightly worst then Thief and Elementalist. Its still much better then other professions.

And teleporting to the new target location, thats a matter of not immediatly hammering your 2 button when someone so much as stand next to you. Wait for the stomp to almost finish. Then responding in time with the right skill at the right location, then its downright impossible to finish stomping them. You cannot respond fast enough to the new location.
And incase of Ele and Mesmer, they are in a state of being “unstompable” after they use their 2. So only the Thief might get caught if the stomper was already hovering with his blink ability over the right location. Sheer luck.

The options and much better means to escape the first stomp, or move out of the heat of battle where damage goes around, offers these 3 professions extra survivability far above that of other professions.
But even a Guardian has got a much better deal then a Warrior. Being able to interupt 5 enemies, and even through Stealth. Or the Ranger who can also AoE interupt, but unlike the Guardian needs a target.

Where as the Warrior (or engineer/necro) can interupt but one enemy. Who isnt stealthed, or has stability, or blinded the downed player. And incase of Warrior and Engineer, someone else (pet, player) can bodyblock the projectile that does the interupt for the person doing the stomp.

It is not balanced.

mjharrison.3209:

Downed state:

• interrupts the natural pace and flow of combat
• does not spectate well
• is not fun
• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories
• turns a close 4v4/3v3/2v2s into a whitewash because of ridiculous rally mechanics
• promotes instagibbing
• introduces imbalances that wouldn’t otherwise exist

DS should at least be an option on custom arenas. I’m willing to bet that DS-disabled arenas would be more popular than default.

- There is no such a thing like natural pace and flow of combat.
- What?
- Maybe for people who are unable to utilize it correctly.
- You can pick traits, abilities, and weapons to secure even 90% of your stomps.
- I agree, rally mechanics should be removed, both in PvE and PvP.
- Downed state is designed to prevent instagibbing with power/crit, and it works very well.
- Every single ability and weapon in any game makes potential imbalances. If you don’t like to have many skills to chose from, don’t play MMOs, play chess online instead.

PS: yes, disabling downed state for private arenas should be allowed.

I think downstate is great as it has helped remove the need for healers. It allows coordinated teams to essentially ‘heal’ their teammates and get them back into the action. Of course it’s a little more messy in hotjoin or soloq.

But yes, some classes are clearly superior (ranger #3 comes to mind more so than stealth skills) and balancing would be good.

In PvP, the only things that really matter is denying a stomp, so there is a significant imbalance between the classes:

2 Evades of Stomp: Thief
1 Evade of Stomp: Ele, Mesmer
No Evades of Stomp: War, Guard, Engi, Ranger, Necro

In the current State of the Game, I see the biggest Problems with Thief, Necro and Warrior.

Thief:
Way too strong downed-Mode. The only real deficit of a Thief is that it’s rather glassy, but if you have that many evades, stealth, blinks etc. AND 2 Ways to evade a stomp in the downed-mode, you’re actually harder to kill than some much much tankier Classes. They really need to reduce the number of Evades to 1.

Necro:
No real disengages, not especially tanky and very very easy to stomp are some of the big reasons why we don’t see as many Necros in competetive play. I really think the Necro should have an evade in his downed-state (2nd Skill insted of the Fear).

Warrior:
If the Warrior isn’t buffed pretty well in terms of sustain, they should probably switch his Vengeance with the Knockdown and probably make the Knockdown strong enough for a 3rd Skill – like making it a longer AoE Knockdown that flies faster or sth.

The other classes aren’t as big of a Problem, because they have decent selfrezzes (Engi, Ranger), they have better Sustain and are tankier etc.

Classes I never have trouble stomping,
Mesmer
Ele
necro
guardian
warrior
Thief
Engi
ranger…

Oh wait that’s all of them? Dang… Sometimes mesmers would love to have a warriors downed state for actually getting up. Thieves downed state is cool because of the teleport. Engi downed state has two interrupts. Necro downed state has AOE fear (have seen it work on several people)
Ele downed state sucks once they mist form. Guard downedstate is a nice little heal if they get to number 3.
Mesmers have phantasmal rogue which is cool after they are ported in a random direction.
Rangers have the best self res in the game but stomping them before that should be easy.

In short some downed states are better than others in different ways. Some are worse. That = balance.

Engineers have got two interrupts only in theory. Since you pull the enemy to your location, all the enemy has to do is stomp right away.
You won’t have enough time for the 3rd to charge up.

The downed skills are not balanced with 1vs1 in mind,whats the point anyway.Some are selfish and some are not.Some are good at x situation and some at y
And thats pretty much it.Besides normalising downed skills might be a step closer to balance but so is giving everyone a stick and tell them to wave at each other till one drops

jportell.2197:

In short some downed states are better than others in different ways. Some are worse. That = balance.

You are a fairly simple person, arent you?

jportell.2197:

Necro downed state has AOE fear (have seen it work on several people)

It’s a trait which has like 1 minute icd.

I’ll admint to not having thought through all the implications of such a change, but at first look it seems to me as if doing something to the downed state would help create a more varied meta game.

As things stand right now you can not win a 1 v 2 (or 1 v 3 etc) scenario. Even if you down one of your opponents he will still be around to deal substantial damage to you while his alive partner will still be causing you trouble. You cannot stomp since that simply takes too long, either you get interupted or take too much damage to win the remainder of the fight. And please don’t claim that this is a l2p issue, you can win eventually but then your opponents were bad. Period.

Thus the popularity of bunkers and overly defensive builds, it’s the only way to stay alive against more than a single opponent. Since you can’t actually kill them, better ensure they can not kill you either. And that’s todays meta in a nutshell.

Ponder simply removing the downed state entirely, if your down your dead. People will actually be able to win 1 v 2 scenarior and not just stall forever. It would not unbalance anything since if the players are of equal skill the team of 2 should still beat the lone player.

This might just be my ranting for not enjoying downed mode in PvP but I feel that removing it, or at least allowing that option for custom servers, would be worth a shot to see what comes out of it.

Yes warrior downed state sucks bad, really bad, the only semi usefull thing its the number 3.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Try having a thief stealth just before the stomp. I mostly play mesmer these days which require a target to use any of their skills..your as good as gone. Not to mention from the mesmer perspective after a good drawn duel against a guardian, finally when they downed me they only had a skant 3-4 mm of red left to their health bar. I managed to get 9 stacks of confusion on them, and they still used whirling wrath with total ambivalence. The 9 stacks at best only chewed an additional millimeter of their health. If condition confused state is meant to attack and deterant at best from opponents wanting to use skills, and at worst is meant to represent a dice roll of damage received vs damage given, then it comes pretty short from that envisioned conception.

In all honesty, I’d be a bigger fan of when someone is down, they have a limited second health bar in which, IF there is team mate in close proximity they can rez them, or if your previous opponent is felled while in the down state you get the rally. In other words,..get rid of down state skills completely and have them only apply in PvE.

I have a mesmer too, and i managed to survive a lot more in situations than my warrior, there is no argument in that, some classes have better downed states, we are not asking to nerf them, we are asking to make downed states of clearly underpowered classes like the warrior some help.

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers have got two interrupts only in theory. Since you pull the enemy to your location, all the enemy has to do is stomp right away.
You won’t have enough time for the 3rd to charge up.

Engineers are also the only class that can literally pick themselves up preemptively from downstate.

Vena.8436:

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers have got two interrupts only in theory. Since you pull the enemy to your location, all the enemy has to do is stomp right away.
You won’t have enough time for the 3rd to charge up.

Engineers are also the only class that can literally pick themselves up preemptively from downstate.

Incorrect, rangers can too.

Lyssas.1586
Right now you win solo against 2 or more opponents because you are more skilled than they are, and you have some stomping tricks like stability, stealth, shadowsteps, blinds, haste, or invulnerability.

What is wrong with it?
Would you rather faceroll them instead with your eyes closed?

Vena.8436:

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers have got two interrupts only in theory. Since you pull the enemy to your location, all the enemy has to do is stomp right away.
You won’t have enough time for the 3rd to charge up.

Engineers are also the only class that can literally pick themselves up preemptively from downstate.

You need an utility skill to do that, it has got a 120s cooldown, must be placed exactly before you die (cause it has got a 6s duration and you get 20% downed hp per pulse) and it can be countered anyway, either via launch or dealing enough damage when downed.
It is useful? Yeah. But we shouldn’t be required to use it to make up for a poor downed state.

Also, elementalists can do that as well – glyph of renewal, fire attunement.

Dagins.5163:

Lyssas.1586
Right now you win solo against 2 or more opponents because you are more skilled than they are, and you have some stomping tricks like stability, stealth, shadowsteps, blinds, haste, or invulnerability.

What is wrong with it?
Would you rather faceroll them instead with your eyes closed?

Using these tricks is what i like about downed state and the reason i dont want it removed.

The problem is though that those tricks dont help at against some classes.
For example if u try to stomp an ele he will use mist form and there is nothing u can do to stop this. Thats 3 secs that work in favor of the downed player and his teamates. On the other hand all u need against a warrior or necro for example to secure a stomp is to use stability and perhaps even a simple blind could do the trick.

Manuhell.2759:

Vena.8436:

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers have got two interrupts only in theory. Since you pull the enemy to your location, all the enemy has to do is stomp right away.
You won’t have enough time for the 3rd to charge up.

Engineers are also the only class that can literally pick themselves up preemptively from downstate.

You need an utility skill to do that, it has got a 120s cooldown, must be placed exactly before you die (cause it has got a 6s duration and you get 20% downed hp per pulse) and it can be countered anyway, either via launch or dealing enough damage when downed.
It is useful? Yeah. But we shouldn’t be required to use it to make up for a poor downed state.

Also, elementalists can do that as well – glyph of renewal, fire attunement.

glyph has 4,5 sec casting time, longer cd and does not stunbreak and refill endurance.Of courses its a certain rezz if it finish the cast but well ..everybody uses elixir r nobody uses the glyph so you get the idea :P
On the other hand people should know that toss elixir r is also countered by projectile reflect/block skills!You didnt mention it

Cause i didn’t know that, actually. I’ve began using that elixir one week ago and i never noticed that (i often use it below myself, so the problem never occurred).
As we said, though, it isn’t a certain ress – there are quite some counters to it (well, even killing the player with a knockback works, since you’ll push him off the area). I would say it is quite balanced.

GankSinatra.2653:

jportell.2197:

In short some downed states are better than others in different ways. Some are worse. That = balance.

You are a fairly simple person, arent you?

Not really also to everyone saying its impossible to win a 1v2 because of downed state. Bullcrap really. Usually you can stomp before they are ressed or you can interrupt the healer than stomp.

One question why is it in the sPvP forums if it only applies to WvW?

Can this be moved please.

Downstate balance, my 2 cents. I believe that all classes without an escape should have an AOE! interrupt. Equally, I believe anyone with an escape should be affected by imob / cripple / chill and the potential time gain from escaping should equal the potential time gained from using an AOE interrupt. So either longer interrupt or shorter escape.

ATM I play elementalist. The mist form only prolongs your death unless friendly’s are on the way. I also play warrior, which means stealth stomp = gg unless the thief is stupid enough to stand right in front of you. Since downed 2 on the warrior is not AOE, either stealth stomp needs to be removed or downed 2 skills needs to be AOE where they are not already.

I also believe that warrior downed 3 and the vengeance(?) trait (the one with 100% rally) should infact be 100% to go back into the downed state (free from death penalty) on kill, not just a free rally. That would mean that the warrior could still res in a one on one fight, but not become a full on warrior in say 2v2 (now 2 v 1 because the warrior made a kill).

My favourite thing to do is start a down on an ele, then interrupt it and restart just before they would vapour from, then teleport after them, and wallah downed ele. This can also be achieved with thief and Mesmer though equally difficult (predicting where thief goes, hoping for a Mesmer down, and getting the start of the down prefect on an ele or they will still be invun).

Downed state is currently only slightly imbalanced and for almost none of the reasons listed in this thread. You CAN win 1v2s and I often times do.

The only problem that I see is that people don’t respect the downed state in everything outside of tourneys. If a person goes down on your team your first priority should be to rez that person or somehow make it so that person gets up. If a person goes down on the enemy team then your first priority should be to either cleave the body to prevent a rez or get a stomp. A very large majority of people who play PvP don’t seem to understand this and it’s depressing.

Mastering how the downed state functions is one of the most important things in this entire game. A lot of the problems with imbalanced downed states only occur in small scale fights where a guard won’t immediately stability stomp or a high DPS class won’t immediately cleave a body.

That said, downed states are minimally imbalanced because of multiple things. Take for example the fact that they’re balanced around natural health and armor pools. Eles are one of the “tankiest” classes in the game from how they’re played currently. But because they have THE lowest natural HP and armor in the entire game they get one of the best downed states in the entire game. The second major flaw is a lack of parity between classes of similar natural armor/HP such as the engis downed state vs the rangers superior one. The final major flaw is that some classes have better access to damage in their downed state than others, particularly thieves, mesmers and rangers (from their pets, which hopefully will get nerfed). Also certain classes get better condis in their downed states vs others making condition damage or power damage more or less favorable for the downed state.

It’s clear that a-net didn’t think much about balancing downed states, but in the grand scheme of things it truly doesn’t matter THAT much. There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Downed state is currently only slightly imbalanced and for almost none of the reasons listed in this thread. You CAN win 1v2s and I often times do.

The only problem that I see is that people don’t respect the downed state in everything outside of tourneys. If a person goes down on your team your first priority should be to rez that person or somehow make it so that person gets up. If a person goes down on the enemy team then your first priority should be to either cleave the body to prevent a rez or get a stomp. A very large majority of people who play PvP don’t seem to understand this and it’s depressing.

Mastering how the downed state functions is one of the most important things in this entire game. A lot of the problems with imbalanced downed states only occur in small scale fights where a guard won’t immediately stability stomp or a high DPS class won’t immediately cleave a body.

That said, downed states are minimally imbalanced because of multiple things. Take for example the fact that they’re balanced around natural health and armor pools. Eles are one of the “tankiest” classes in the game from how they’re played currently. But because they have THE lowest natural HP and armor in the entire game they get one of the best downed states in the entire game. The second major flaw is a lack of parity between classes of similar natural armor/HP such as the engis downed state vs the rangers superior one. The final major flaw is that some classes have better access to damage in their downed state than others, particularly thieves, mesmers and rangers (from their pets, which hopefully will get nerfed). Also certain classes get better condis in their downed states vs others making condition damage or power damage more or less favorable for the downed state.

It’s clear that a-net didn’t think much about balancing downed states, but in the grand scheme of things it truly doesn’t matter THAT much. There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

^This… People get so mad when someone on their team goes down they don’t bother getting them up.
1. Always try to get ur teammate up unless you know
A. Doing so will down you too and give them double points.
B. Your a mega tank but know you still can’t get them up because of AOE pressure.

I still don’t understand why mesmers for instance don’t take Mass invis but use moa instead. Usually Mass Invis guarantees the res. especially if the person u are ressing is a ranger, ele, Mesmer, thief, guard. communication is a big part of that because they need to know to stop attacking.

2. You gotta understand that some builds are meant to not be tanky. These guys will go down fast. That is why the people that are the tanks need to preoccupy the team. If your tank goes down in a team fight… Try ressing if you can’t let that team have the point and back cap.

All in all downed state adds a fun dynamic and there really is no good reason to hate it.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Downed state is currently only slightly imbalanced and for almost none of the reasons listed in this thread. You CAN win 1v2s and I often times do.

The only problem that I see is that people don’t respect the downed state in everything outside of tourneys. If a person goes down on your team your first priority should be to rez that person or somehow make it so that person gets up. If a person goes down on the enemy team then your first priority should be to either cleave the body to prevent a rez or get a stomp. A very large majority of people who play PvP don’t seem to understand this and it’s depressing.

…

Unfortunately this is true. Continual interrupting of a downed player (happens mostly in Tpvp) while annoying due to the long respawn time adds time for your team to gain some free points. Resing your friends allows you team to continue an equal battle, not a losing one.

Some classes can be horrible to other classes when down. Look at the elemenalist with on of my favourite weapon setups: S/F.
Insti blind (air 3)
switch to air blind (if using EA which I don’t)
lots more blinds on other insti arcane skills (30 arcane not EA)
projectile reflect (let those thieves and rangers finish themselves MUHAHAH)
projectile destroy (what warrior hammer).
Fire aura (burn downed foes that attack you)
Fire wall (whoops didn’t see you lying around, did that thief just stealth? hes very dead now)
Dragons tooth
Phonix
Invulnerability (earth 5)
Not to even mention the other nasties in the utility slots
Sand storm (earth glyph of storms:blind every 3 sec? I think its 3 seconds, used to be every 1)
Teleport Down

Ever seen 2 eles in full glass cannon spec with S/D instantly drop a foe then drop 2 dragons tooths on his head? Of course not, because its not BWE1 anymore and we don’t do damage anymore. We just stand there and look pretty.

In order for sPvP to compete with the big dogs, the downstate feature HAS to go. This game is going to hemorrhage before it ever has a chance to shine.

I commend Anet for attempting to add something truly unique to the game, because that in and of itself shows courage and confidence, and people respond to that. But the feature fails to meet competitive expectations. It is an entirely new level of balance that hasn’t been explored before, and for a game trying to enter the world of esports, you have to trim the fat where you can, and the community has chewed this particular piece of gristle for long enough.

Pat yourself on the back, you really tried with this thing, but it just isn’t going to work.

Remove it from PvP.

Ostricheggs.3742:

If a person goes down on your team your first priority should be to rez that person or somehow make it so that person gets up. If a person goes down on the enemy team then your first priority should be to either cleave the body to prevent a rez or get a stomp. A very large majority of people who play PvP don’t seem to understand this and it’s depressing.

Mastering how the downed state functions is one of the most important things in this entire game.

+1

People really need to undestand this.

But this is also where i d like to point out that some classes when downed can help their teammates res them a lot more that others. And this is where i see the imbalance.

When i play an ele i know i can mist and go behing my allies to get to a place with less AoE so that they can res me. As a warrior i have to hope that the one who is trying to stomp me has no clue of what hes doing and has no block, no stability and no invulnerabilty and therefore will be interrupted by me or an ally.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Also certain classes get better condis in their downed states vs others making condition damage or power damage more or less favorable for the downed state.

This also something important. Some classes/specs can be a threat in a teamfight dmg wise (eg thief) and cant be ignored while others can just be left there to die by life degeneration since they can do almost nothing (eg condition necros).

Heres one sad sad story.

OT: they should nerf dem ranger number 3, thats all.

Ostricheggs.3742:

There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

I think there are tons of Teamfights decided by how many Evades a downed Player has, but really none of the other effects seem to matter at all in Teamfights. Even the 3rd downed Skills of many Classes don’t seem to matter at all, if they aren’t another Evade, because in every Teamfight, a Team will have tons of ways to get a safe-stomp:

1) Eles with Blinds, Mistform etc.
2) AoE-Stability from the Guard every like 25 seconds.
3) Mesmer with Distortion.
4) Invis of Thiefs, Mesmers, Engis can help sometimes too.

I haven’t had a Situation in weeks where we weren’t able to safestomp sth. in a Teamfight that had no Evades and in most cases, Teamfights win you Games, while everything else is either buying time or drawing the opponent out so you can win Teamfights. That’s mostly because of the fact, that if you win a Teamfight, you’ll most likely not only get 1 kill, but 3 or more, so you can easily take another Point back after winning the Teamfight, which will give you control over two Nodes.

In Teamfights, it’s really simple, 1 Evade will give you 4 more seconds of rezzing and with tons of Teams running Skills/Traits that severely restrict DPS on the downed Target (Shield of Absorbtion, Resolute Healer, Sanctuary, Feedback Bubble, Medcis Feedback, Walls that absorb or reflect Projectiles, even Shield of the Avenger is amazing!), thats worth a lot, even if the rezzing Players are susceptible to DPS for a longer period of time.

And this all is the case even though Teams specifically Target players first that have easy-stomp downed modes. Now imagine fights between two equally skilled Teams and equal classes, but one team had the downed-state of Thiefs, the other of Necros. Guess which Team would win?

I’ve even had it happen multiple times, that when I roam alone with an Ele and get downed, Those few seconds more of not being stomped keep me alive long enough for a Teammate to come along and rez me.

Ostricheggs.3742:

There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

its not about the mechanics, if you never played a warrior, i guess you will never get 2 downed people or rangers pet 1 to the ground because warriors have no sustain like no sustain to no sustain and it was already difficult for us to take down two people. and you will never be so depressed because how you can do nothing else so nothing but nothing, but watching that ranger get rezed up by their be loved pets.

Lighter.5631:

Ostricheggs.3742:

There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

its not about the mechanics, if you never played a warrior, i guess you will never get 2 downed people or rangers pet 1 to the ground because warriors have no sustain like no sustain to no sustain and it was already difficult for us to take down two people. and you will never be so depressed because how you can do nothing else so nothing but nothing, but watching that ranger get rezed up by their be loved pets.

Simply start playing with Teammates that can rez and stomp and stop getting into unfavourable Situations. What are you doing in 1v1’s with a Warrior anyways? I don’t know any Warrior-Build thats good in 1v1, he’s a Teamfight-character.

Yes, War’s are imba and their downed-state sucks pretty hard, but c’mon, even the fastest fish will be considered weak if you measure it by how fast he can climb a Tree.

It’s a Teamgame and Chars have Pro’s and Con’s – specifically the Warrior needs a Team to make up for his flaws, so either change your Class or start playing with a Thief.

I’ve never experienced it once (at least I can’t remember it) that a Ranger was able to rezz himself by his Pet in structured PvP and I’ve played about 2k tournament Matches with a Premade Team.

Again, the only thing that matters in 90% of the Situations in structured PvP with Premades is how often you can evade the Stomp. Really nothing else has any impact whatsoever in most Situations.

mjharrison.3209:

• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories

gw2 is a team game.
your point is invalid.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

mjharrison.3209:

• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories

gw2 is a team game.
your point is invalid.

How does a team game by definition invalidate the skill of its players?

Erebos.6741:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

mjharrison.3209:

• precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories

gw2 is a team game.
your point is invalid.

How does a team game by definition invalidate the skill of its players?

“precludes skilled 1v2, 1v3 victories”

guild wars 2 is a team game.
if 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 is possible due to skill, then there is something very wrong with that profession who can 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 easily.

strength in numbers.
1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3, the larger team should always have a higher chance to prevail.

anyway, if the so called skill person is really that skilled, he should have no problem stomping or dps-ing the downed player and proceed to defeat the remaining player(s)

lets continue this in a new topic if you must.

downstate is both a situational form of crowd control & a facilitator for team plays. the double edged nature of downstate is what makes it an interesting & positive addition to gameplay because either team has the opportunity to capitalize on a downed player for either team. The downed player themselves have opportunities to affect the teamfight as well ( using #2 to interrupt a heal, engi pulling a low health target back into fight, warrior vengeance ressing another downed teammate ), although these uses are more infrequent they still add another layer to the fight.

ps. 1v2 / 1v3 are not uncommon in GW2, they are simply indicative of player skill variance & class match ups.

Black Teagan.9215:

Thief downed skills are very useless against monster

PowerBottom.5796:

Ostricheggs.3742:

There’s rarely a lost or won fight that any players can blame on the downed state outside of a lack of knowledge of how to work it. You don’t down five guys while a player is downed and no one is rezzing, that’s just completely stupid.

I think there are tons of Teamfights decided by how many Evades a downed Player has, but really none of the other effects seem to matter at all in Teamfights. Even the 3rd downed Skills of many Classes don’t seem to matter at all, if they aren’t another Evade, because in every Teamfight, a Team will have tons of ways to get a safe-stomp:

1) Eles with Blinds, Mistform etc.
2) AoE-Stability from the Guard every like 25 seconds.
3) Mesmer with Distortion.
4) Invis of Thiefs, Mesmers, Engis can help sometimes too.

I haven’t had a Situation in weeks where we weren’t able to safestomp sth. in a Teamfight that had no Evades and in most cases, Teamfights win you Games, while everything else is either buying time or drawing the opponent out so you can win Teamfights. That’s mostly because of the fact, that if you win a Teamfight, you’ll most likely not only get 1 kill, but 3 or more, so you can easily take another Point back after winning the Teamfight, which will give you control over two Nodes.

In Teamfights, it’s really simple, 1 Evade will give you 4 more seconds of rezzing and with tons of Teams running Skills/Traits that severely restrict DPS on the downed Target (Shield of Absorbtion, Resolute Healer, Sanctuary, Feedback Bubble, Medcis Feedback, Walls that absorb or reflect Projectiles, even Shield of the Avenger is amazing!), thats worth a lot, even if the rezzing Players are susceptible to DPS for a longer period of time.

And this all is the case even though Teams specifically Target players first that have easy-stomp downed modes. Now imagine fights between two equally skilled Teams and equal classes, but one team had the downed-state of Thiefs, the other of Necros. Guess which Team would win?

I’ve even had it happen multiple times, that when I roam alone with an Ele and get downed, Those few seconds more of not being stomped keep me alive long enough for a Teammate to come along and rez me.

Often times the classes with the lowest health and armor have the best forms of stomp prevention. If a thief goes down in a team fight he is NOT getting up if there is a roamer cleaving him. It’ll often times kill the rezzers in the process as well. Even if they do get up the people rezzing have taken a massive hit in health “resources” that they’ll have a very difficult time recovering. How your team reacts to the downed players is far more important than the downed players and the abilities themselves. The glaring imbalances appear when the fights are smaller as I said before because the downed players become more important and stomping reliably becomes more difficult.

Agree with ostricheggs on this one. Also in my experience successful 1v2s (and 2v3s) are made possible from understanding of downed mechanics, that it adds a layer of depth to team fights. If you make a roamer with no cleave, then expect problems with stomping, is all I can say.