If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
Mesmer doesn’t work unless the Mesmer is good at what he does, then it works brilliantly. Otherwise, it’s better to roll another class because you’ll just be a burden to the team.
Every day in PvP I meet some hero mesmer who thinks he can take a thief 1on1 and ends up getting ganked all over the place the whole match while accomplishing nothing, whining and crying about how great he is and how his team is just full of PvE noobs. It’s impossible to support this kind of a guy because he’s usually teleporting himself to all kinds of fail spots where the thief can effortlessly follow him and stomp him out in silence.
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place. 1on1, the thief gains all boons against the mesmer while the mesmer loses all of his boons, so he’s obviously at a disadvantage.
I hardly ever engage thieves in 1v1’s. It’s not also that kinda mentality that bjorks mesmers. But mesmers running the absolute dumbest of builds. I’m sorry there are some good ones that arent’ standard shatter, but some of the builds I see ran, just make me go O.o
Edit: Case in point had a mesmer running scepter/torch+staff with krait runes gripe at me for running a “skilless” shatter build. I should mention he said he was using condi traits and runes, with a zerker amulet.
Ether Feast – Remove two conditions if you have two or more clones.
I like that, maybe could be similar to how it now heals extra for clones, “remove a condition for each active illusion” so it’s more reliable. I would even take reduced healing for this tbh
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in
learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
@Gates Assassin: The build you mentioned actually works pretty well, but it doesn’t address Mesmers main issues:
Lack of definable role
Sub-par vs Celestial specs.
Trading boonstrip for reflects/survivability is nice, but as it stands boonstrip is more valuable, especially with the stab changes. What utilities did ya grab?
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Metsän Suojelija (guard)/Puun Halaaja (engi)/Pieni Musta Rotta (warrior)/Viher Rauha (necro)
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
@Gates Assassin: The build you mentioned actually works pretty well, but it doesn’t address Mesmers main issues:
Lack of definable role
Sub-par vs Celestial specs.
Trading boonstrip for reflects/survivability is nice, but as it stands boonstrip is more valuable, especially with the stab changes. What utilities did ya grab?
I change my utilities depending on the enemies. Lots of slow classes? Portal. Lots of engis/rangers? Feedback. Lots of thieves/mesmers? Mantra of distraction. Lots of confirmed condi people? Mantra of Cleansing.
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.
There are lots of really good mesmers onthe same level or better than supcutie when it comes to pure dueling capability. I don’t think the fights would be as one-sided as you’d think. Shatter can absolutely trash thief just depending on the way you play it. An important point people are trying to make though, is that to really do good against thieves, especially good ones, you have to be extremely good at mesmer. Whilst the opposite isn’t true against thief if you want to beat a mesmer.
Its funny you mention caed though because Ive seen him get trashed pretty badly in the OS dueling people lol.
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.
There are lots of really good mesmers onthe same level or better than supcutie when it comes to pure dueling capability. I don’t think the fights would be as one-sided as you’d think. Shatter can absolutely trash thief just depending on the way you play it. An important point people are trying to make though, is that to really do good against thieves, especially good ones, you have to be extremely good at mesmer. Whilst the opposite isn’t true against thief if you want to beat a mesmer.
Its funny you mention caed though because Ive seen him get trashed pretty badly in the OS dueling people lol.
Mesmer Dueling builds have not nor will ever work in conquest.
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.
They say the same when there is cele ele on the cap and thief is about to engage
same for shoutbows
same for bunkers
same for tankier engineers
same for condi necromancers
same for lichform necromancer.
So … those are the 5 classes that come ontop of my head that the thief avoid opening at. And you mesmer people complain only from the thief. If every thief starts complaining you hypocrites will be the first ones to tell them to L2P ….
Every class has a hard counter, be it in term of a condi build or a mechanic (stealth) that completely nullifies your abilities. Keep in mind stealth also has a hard counter, in the face of channeling skills. But that’s the beauty of team fights. You don’t have to duel anyone.
P.S: Add dps guardi to the lists lulz.
P.S.S: Lulz, turns out, most of the meta can absolutely wreck a thief. Go figure…
Thieves and medi guards are really the only truly viable zerk classes right now because thieves have either a ton of stealth and mobility or a bit of stealth with a ton of evades and mobility. Guards have a pretty decent amount of recovery because of their invulnerabilties/block and many heals.
I dont think they need a nerf because that would just throw power out of the meta and who would wanna be stuck in a gross cele meta? They just need to give other classes like mesmer smart buffs to their survivability.
agree 100%.
Mesmers need buffs in order to be popular and viable in sPvP.
Sanctum of Rall
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.
Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.
A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.
In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.
Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.
Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.
There are lots of really good mesmers onthe same level or better than supcutie when it comes to pure dueling capability. I don’t think the fights would be as one-sided as you’d think. Shatter can absolutely trash thief just depending on the way you play it. An important point people are trying to make though, is that to really do good against thieves, especially good ones, you have to be extremely good at mesmer. Whilst the opposite isn’t true against thief if you want to beat a mesmer.
Its funny you mention caed though because Ive seen him get trashed pretty badly in the OS dueling people lol.
Mesmer Dueling builds have not nor will ever work in conquest.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
The problem with saying d/p can be shrekt by CI or shatter in duels and telling someone to go to a dueling arena is that conquest is 5v5.
Sure, you will see good mesmers beating thieves in duels, but duels never include the thief having a buddy who can tank and distract the mesmer.
I don’t think mesmers need a buff to be viable in sPvP. We see mesmers playing at the highest levels and doing good work in torunaments. Why I think mesmers need a buff and the only type of buff I can fathom for shatter (the most popular build) is greater access to condi clear since I have seen mesmers just keel over and die to burning alone.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
He just told me to go to a dueling arena xD
Because you clearly don’t understand the matchup lol.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
He just told me to go to a dueling arena xD
Because you clearly don’t understand the matchup lol.
I’m laughing because I spend 80% of my time in Angz… If you think you know more about 1v1 Mesmer matchups than me you are either talking about WvW or incorrect ^^
some times is hard to judge what is harder
making the game more balanced or proving to ppl that we are not elephants…
i think balanced has a remotely small chance of happening but proving we are not elephants wont happen….. ANY DP SD DD or let me put it this way SBOW thief on the right spec played right can kill a mesmer 90% of the time(THE VERY LEAST). How are u supposed to win a thief that can engage 3 times further than ur interrupt range by interrupting it when u run with 10% hp and he is full and he is sbowing u down and if u dodge disengage ur clone bounces trick shots on u and whatever u do the thief is right behind u i dont get it…..
The problem with saying d/p can be shrekt by CI or shatter in duels and telling someone to go to a dueling arena is that conquest is 5v5.
Sure, you will see good mesmers beating thieves in duels, but duels never include the thief having a buddy who can tank and distract the mesmer.
I don’t think mesmers need a buff to be viable in sPvP. We see mesmers playing at the highest levels and doing good work in torunaments. Why I think mesmers need a buff and the only type of buff I can fathom for shatter (the most popular build) is greater access to condi clear since I have seen mesmers just keel over and die to burning alone.
nope, surviving against thieves are the REAL problem, stop trying dispute it.
How many Mesmers playing at the highest levels and doing good work in tournaments vs thieves or other classes? Please share your facts here.
So I met with Xeph the other day, from Team Paradigm. This is a team that was around when the game launched. I’m going to try to be as accurate with what he told me as possible.
Basically he and helsteth were talking, and mesmers biggest weakness, if i remember what he told me correctly, is this.
Mesmer is the least self sufficient DPS class in the game, and has been for quite a long time.
What I am taking from this is that of all the DPS specs in the game (yes even SF ele.) Mesmer is the least capable of supporting itself when the time comes.
Also if you keep referencing 1v1 match ups as a good point for why mesmer is balanced or doesn’t need buffs then you are forgetting this game has not or ever will be balanced around 1v1’s.
You want to fix thieves then force them to have longer cd if they are trying to stealth while taking damage.
Or at least if they are taking damage while in stealth they lose some mobility.
Hell I can stealth just as many times as a thieve with my mesmer but no hell in way I can shatter as quickly as one of them are able to backstab me.
Really the only thing that makes me rage over them out of ANYTHING, is my feedback bubble does no counter their dagger spin. It won’t reflect the damage back on them.
You want to fix thieves then force them to have longer cd if they are trying to stealth while taking damage.
Or at least if they are taking damage while in stealth they lose some mobility.
Hell I can stealth just as many times as a thieve with my mesmer but no hell in way I can shatter as quickly as one of them are able to backstab me.
Really the only thing that makes me rage over them out of ANYTHING, is my feedback bubble does no counter their dagger spin. It won’t reflect the damage back on them.
O_O Are you saying there are thieves that use dagger storm in spvp?
Plus yeah, ANet’s reflection system kittens itself when a condition like this is met, having to reflect an already reflected projectile.
You do know that dagger storm reflects projectiles right?
You want to fix thieves then force them to have longer cd if they are trying to stealth while taking damage.
Or at least if they are taking damage while in stealth they lose some mobility.
Hell I can stealth just as many times as a thieve with my mesmer but no hell in way I can shatter as quickly as one of them are able to backstab me.
Really the only thing that makes me rage over them out of ANYTHING, is my feedback bubble does no counter their dagger spin. It won’t reflect the damage back on them.
O_O Are you saying there are thieves that use dagger storm in spvp?
Plus yeah, ANet’s reflection system kittens itself when a condition like this is met, having to reflect an already reflected projectile.
You do know that dagger storm reflects projectiles right?
Well I’ve tested it with a friend in WvW with a buddy of mine just to see and FeedBack Bubble for Mesmers is like anyone with range attacks nightmares.
I usually combine that with a dagger storm thieve on my side along with my radiation skill and got poison+compound bolts flying from thieve. (but that’s another story)
My only issue is, if it’s suppose to reflect all range attacks from inside the bubble why it wouldn’t work on dagger storm. I figured they would cancel each other out.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
This is second or third case I saw when mesmer claims that mesmer trashes thieves in Obsidian sanctum. OS such OS ^^
I can beat bad d/p thieves (who don’t adapt to enemy playstyle) in arena (Coulter much better then me at arena btw), but good ones are pretty strong obstacle.
Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI
Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure
LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.
Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD
I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.
He just told me to go to a dueling arena xD
Because you clearly don’t understand the matchup lol.
The fact is that when player skill is equal, the thief still has a significant advantage against dps Mesmer builds. Whenever a thief loses against a dps Mesmer, it’s because they’re a WORSE player or the Mesmer is just leagues better than him. Same thing.
The point in all of this is that there shouldn’t be matchups like Mes vs Thief where it’s such a huge disparity in odds in favor of one profession. Every build has counters, but one profession shouldn’t HARD counter an entire group of builds so strongly.
I’m just tired of people saying use AOES, that counters.
You can’t dodge what you can’t see. Unless other classes can unlock Jedi Skills I don’t see that happening.
By the time a Thief appears from stealth odds are it’s almost beside you if not already behind you. As a Mesmer play about time I already hit my skills I’ve taken a shank and a good clean fraction of my hp is gone. You can’t instana shatter your clones you have to actually make them first with a minor delay.
This thread makes it evident that there are problems between the mesmer and thief in the meta. Their roles (roamer, +1 fights, burster) are nearly identical but the thief 1-ups the mesmer in nearly every aspect. Additionally, their roles are very, very narrow leaving almost no room for build diversity. You don’t see any celestial or bunker builds cause other classes can do those builds 100x better. Since all the other role slots are taken, it’s not easy to make changes to either mesmer or thief without reducing their ability to accomplish their role. Just making it clear that both classes are in a pretty bad situation, quite possibly due to their very design (initiative, illusions, stealth, etc.).
In fact let me make it clearer that any significant nerfs to thief (in particular their active defenses) would basically put it right next to mesmer in that “requires massive skill to be barely playable” tier.
Edit: It is worth noting that even though these suggestions may help the Thief vs Mesmer matchup, there is still the much, much more tricky question of how to handle the situation of thieves pushing almost every other berserker class in the game, such S/F eles and pew pew rangers, to the fringes of the meta. You obviously don’t want to overnerf the thief, but other zerker classes deserve some play too.
No, no, it’s fine. Nerf away. No one will cry, and if any thieves do they can always roll another class and L2P. Thieves have always been on about skill and L2P anyway so they’ll be right at home. ;D
This thread makes it evident that there are problems between the mesmer and thief in the meta. Their roles (roamer, +1 fights, burster) are nearly identical but the thief 1-ups the mesmer in nearly every aspect. Additionally, their roles are very, very narrow leaving almost no room for build diversity. You don’t see any celestial or bunker builds cause other classes can do those builds 100x better. Since all the other role slots are taken, it’s not easy to make changes to either mesmer or thief without reducing their ability to accomplish their role. Just making it clear that both classes are in a pretty bad situation, quite possibly due to their very design (initiative, illusions, stealth, etc.).
In fact let me make it clearer that any significant nerfs to thief (in particular their active defenses) would basically put it right next to mesmer in that “requires massive skill to be barely playable” tier.
This is why the only thing i want to address about thief is the mesmer thief match up.. Ideally consume plasma needs nerfs. And change phantasms not being summoned on blind.
So last night I played berserker warrior with dolyak signet and greatsword and longbow.
Kept killing thieves with a single whirl and sigil proc. If they didn’t die from the whirl i just swapped to bow which had hydromancy rune to slowthem long enough for pinpoint shot and back to greatsword for some funtime hundred blades and, you guessed it, another whirl xD
Turret engineers though completely got me rekt. I even trolled around with rangers and whatnot.
Who said the berserker warrior is dead :O
And oh boy those DPS and bunker guards haven’t seen damage warrior in awhile. They just took my 100b crits and downed and were like whaaaaaaaaaaa xD
Seriously, beating 2 guards alone is freaking insane. I focused the squishy one, then when his friend went to res him i downed him too.
So last night I played berserker warrior with dolyak signet and greatsword and longbow.
Kept killing thieves with a single whirl and sigil proc. If they didn’t die from the whirl i just swapped to bow which had hydromancy rune to slowthem long enough for pinpoint shot and back to greatsword for some funtime hundred blades and, you guessed it, another whirl xD
Turret engineers though completely got me rekt. I even trolled around with rangers and whatnot.
Who said the berserker warrior is dead :O
And oh boy those DPS and bunker guards haven’t seen damage warrior in awhile. They just took my 100b crits and downed and were like whaaaaaaaaaaa xD
Seriously, beating 2 guards alone is freaking insane. I focused the squishy one, then when his friend went to res him i downed him too.
#GetRekt by zerk warrior lulz.
This thread is about Mesmer, start a zerker warrior thread if you need to discuss.
Seeing your other posts, you’re probably just a thief player trying to derail this thread.
So last night I played berserker warrior with dolyak signet and greatsword and longbow.
Kept killing thieves with a single whirl and sigil proc. If they didn’t die from the whirl i just swapped to bow which had hydromancy rune to slowthem long enough for pinpoint shot and back to greatsword for some funtime hundred blades and, you guessed it, another whirl xD
Turret engineers though completely got me rekt. I even trolled around with rangers and whatnot.
Who said the berserker warrior is dead :O
And oh boy those DPS and bunker guards haven’t seen damage warrior in awhile. They just took my 100b crits and downed and were like whaaaaaaaaaaa xD
Seriously, beating 2 guards alone is freaking insane. I focused the squishy one, then when his friend went to res him i downed him too.
#GetRekt by zerk warrior lulz.
This thread is about Mesmer, start a zerker warrior thread if you need to discuss.
Seeing your other posts, you’re probably just a thief player trying to derail this thread.
I multiclass. Just for the sake of being competent on the half of the bullkitten you guys come up with
I’m not even worried about it anymore, Mesmers may not have a TRUE place in Pvp anymore but people have to remember we are what make PvE go around.
When people don’t want to do a jump puzzle who do they ask for help? The Mesmsers ^^
I’m just happy I proved something last night, I fought two different thieves in pvp last night and the conditions were I wouldn’t use any clones if they didn’t use any stealth. (I didn’t use any stealth as well)
I’m not even worried about it anymore, Mesmers may not have a TRUE place in Pvp anymore but people have to remember we are what make PvE go around.
When people don’t want to do a jump puzzle who do they ask for help? The Mesmsers ^^
I’m just happy I proved something last night, I fought two different thieves in pvp last night and the conditions were I wouldn’t use any clones if they didn’t use any stealth. (I didn’t use any stealth as well)
…2 out of 2 wins >.>
that’s great, but it’s also a sad truth that thief get to keep the class defining stealth mechanic that makes a difference in playing the class, while Mesmers clones and confusion skills (arent we supposed to be the class that “confuse” other professions) not getting the same love from Anet. Not to mention the initiative mechanic allows thieves players and devs use as the reason that’s WHY a GM trait like power block doesnt work on thieves, but on every other classes.
The mesmer is out of the meta because ppl have cookie cutter builds. you’ll be facing that annoying engi, 2 ele, 1 rogue and 1 guardian/warrior. At least this is all i’ve seen watching the esl weekly events. I watched a few and thought it was cool, but now it’s just boring. Mesmer can fit the meta but you’ll have to include it in a counter-party to this current cookie cutter party and plan carefully. Maybe 4 rogues and 1 mesmer; mobility and stealth for all. But i’m sure there’s hundreds if ppl put their minds to it.
If shatters tracked stealth like every other attack skill triggered before stealth. AND if widthdraw was either interuptable or didnt remove imob the matchup would be a lot better. Hell maybe a simple buff to the coefficients would solve the problem and put them back in slot.
It might be OP but the best solution to mes survivability issues is to just more ports and blinks. Eg. Blink can be used again within 15 seconds of its first cast. Or let mes blink again at the cost of 2 illusions or 10% HP.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~” “Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
I’m not even worried about it anymore, Mesmers may not have a TRUE place in Pvp anymore but people have to remember we are what make PvE go around.
When people don’t want to do a jump puzzle who do they ask for help? The Mesmsers ^^
I’m just happy I proved something last night, I fought two different thieves in pvp last night and the conditions were I wouldn’t use any clones if they didn’t use any stealth. (I didn’t use any stealth as well)
…2 out of 2 wins >.>
Mesmers sure are the queens of Player Vs Jumping puzzle. Which is one better than Necro.
