Guild Wars 2

Jae.5138:

reading some of these posts gave me cancer. i really think anet is better off attending to players who have actually proven themselves through tournaments and ‘well known’ players rather than random jibjabs on the forum.

At least provide some value here. Show how you’d rank the classes

Lopez.7369:

These lists are difficult to make when accounting for various roles.

For example, guardian is obviously a must-have in team arenas. But it’s not really overpowered because nothing about it feels particularly outrageous; it’s just the best designed bunker.

With that said, here is my list:

S tier
Warrior
Thief

A tier
Guardian
Ranger
Engineer
Mesmer

B tier
Necromancer

C tier
Elementalist

My list assumes classes are using their apex builds, so necromancers are conditions, warriors use hammer and longbow and so on.

I don’t consider anything in A through C tiers overpowered, while the classes in S tier need to be brought down a bit more than other classes to be in line with my expectations.

I actually think balance is in a pretty good spot right now. The issue is all the classes, particularly those in S, A and B tiers, have cheesy mechanics. In an ideal patch, I would nerf every single class while making adjustments that move everyone toward A tier.

Thief is in S tier and Necro is in B tier? Let’s be honest, that’s more than just a bit unrealistic. Putting thief at the bottom of A or in B tier is more accurate, and Necro can easily go into the middle of A. Engineer certainly isn’t worse than guardian or even ranger.

Dee Jay.2460:

I wanted to share my take on certain builds and where they stand. If I don’t mention a specific build that it’s probably because I haven’t encountered it enough to give it a fair opinion.

This is for sPvP mostly, based on SoloQ and TeamQ experiences. Things are different in WvW where the +40% Condition food among other things makes a HUGE difference.

1. Overpowered

• Warriors, more specifically Healing Signet. It’s the best heal for almost all builds and has the strongest HPS of any passive heal in game. Unlike other passive heals it also doesn’t have any conditional attached to it. It ticks always, all the time. Without Healing Signet Warriors would just be strong, but not really overpowered.
• Necromancers, both the Condition bombing build and the Minion Masters. Personally I think Minion Masters are especially strong in 1v1, but slightly less useful in group-fights. However Necromancers popular builds definitely carry them into the top tier.
• Spirit Rangers, this is borderline, but the fact that they can instantly self-rezz and are so easy to play really makes them overpowered. If they got away with less passive play and auto-attack spamming, caused less screen-clutter and couldn’t self-rezz I’d find them much more acceptable.
• Engineers, more specifically their Condition Bunker builds. These are rare outside of TeamQ but kitten are they overpowered. Nigh unkillable even by multiple players and able to apply significant condition pressure. Not ok.

2. Strong

• Guardians, both Bunkers and well-played DPS Guardians. I was tempted to put Bunker Guardians as overpowered considering how much punishment they can take and how imperative they are to Conquest. But at least they pay the price of having to give up almost all offensive power to do so. I’d like to see them Bunkers being slightly squisher in favor of slightly more DPS.
• Other Necromancer builds. I feel that a Necro is always useful even if not following a FotM build. The conditions, the AoE pressure and the ability to take quite some punishment are invaluable.
• Thief, all popular builds. I think Thieves have their niche and can fill it in multiple ways. S/D and D/P being the most effective means. While their role is limited they do fill it quite well and require slightly more attention than other classes. It would be nice if Thieves could fulfill other roles too, but that’s something of a 1st World Problem.
• Mesmers are a borderline case again. They are generally quite good but again don’t have a field they excel in. They have some strong builds but nothing quite as overpowered as some others. Other builds are just generally average. I don’t really PvP much on my Mesmer so I can’t give much quality feedback.
• Engineers, non-bunker builds – I’ve always felt Engineers have a lot to offer and is a valuable asset in all situations. I don’t know specific builds but they certainly don’t suck.

Average or worse

• Elementalist – I can’t really comment much on them since they underwent some major changes recently. But in sPvP it’s a class that has never caused me trouble nor felt all that useful compared to others. Currently there aren’t any situations in sPvP where I’d like to have an Elementalist over….say a Necromancer.
• Non-Spirit Ranger – Rangers that don’t use the Spirit Ranger build are rarely much of a challenge. Maybe the players I’ve met were just bad but they don’t really seem to have any unique strengths to help define them.

This, pretty much. The only thing I would add is non Hambow HS Warriors into number 2.

In this Order… I am judging on Risk/Reward of best build, map mobility, peels, physical/condition damage, survivability, ability to fill roll of either bunker roamer backpoint etc

1. Thief- Thief not only has the ability to 1v1 every single class but has one of the best map mobilities.. Its physical burst damage is extremely high and its abilities to interrupt stab stomps and resses is essential, This class plays a burst roamer and with its easy access to the best stun breaks as well as rune set(lyssa on kitten CD) ability to stealth very easily allows this class to get in and out of tight situations…. IMO 10 30 0 0 30 thief is essential to a successful team
2. Warrior- Warriors current survivability/damage combo is what makes this class so strong, with a lot of access to stability as well as condi removal + high armor and base health this class has a lot of survivability and Combined with Hammer/Longbow even post patch it has a very high damage for its sustain.. It also has one of (if not the best) healing skills in the game.. Warrior is able to play a defensive roamer as well as a bunker very well.. It is hard to focus down and can easily rip through a teams back line, This class can also 1v1 extremely well with its only hard counter being thief (possibly condi engi (if played very well))
3. Condi Engi- engineer has a very low risk/reward ratio and with nades (amazing condi output) an AoE skill at 1500 range it is very easy to blow through a bunker on point, cleave a downed opponent or simply focus a target.. Engis unique trait lines allow Engineers to be Condi immune have Perma Swift, Large Vigor uptime, Regen, Lots of access to protection, and the best burn trait in the game.. as a result engineers can play essential roles in teamfights as a defensive roamer, but can also push far with an amazing 1v1 skill set only hard countered by condi necro
4. Gaurdian- Gaurdians are often undervalued as the role they play in a team fight, but a good gaurdian can often change the tide of an entire game. Bunker gaurdians play a defensive bunker role, offering lots of support to their teams through condi clears, AoE stab, AoE Protection, and AoE heals, this allows a gaurdian to not only keep himself alive on point but res, stomp and support his teamates… Even when playing 0 0 10 30 30 a generic teamfight gaurdian with not much self support(compared to AH) can seem sometimes impossible to kill
5. Spirit ranger/Necro- These two classes came in at a tie for me both classes have poor mobility compared to other classes, and both play defensive roamers, however in a teamfight Spirit rangers offer more support but less direct pressure as well as an AoE res on a 30s CD (240sCD) and on death of spirit… Necros on the other hand offer an insane amount of AoE condis which can be essential to a team fight and cleave, like engis they are often easier targets than other classes, but with a wide variety of stun breaks and death shroud necros are very viable… However currently on NA there are very few(if any) good condi necros who apply the pressure without being focused and killed easily
6. Mesmer- Mesmers are still viable in my opinion they are just very hard to play (PU and Phantasm arent viable in Tpvp) Shatter mesmer is the only viable option (aside from bugged STun trait) Shatter mesmer is A LOT of dps and boon removal AoE but shatter mesmers are often extremely easy targets and in this semi condi meta, mesmers are killed very easily (few condi removals)… Mesmers have very good Utils and Elites though with TIme warp (possibly best elite skill aside from banner/spirit) Port (best util in game if used correctly) IOL ( in high lvl play can be very good) but with lack of survivability very few players play mesmer comp (supcutie is an example of a very good player able to execute mesmer w/o getting completely trapped)
7. Finally Eles- Eles arent in the meta due to low HP, lack of survivability and damage
Other classes have all of these combined but with ele there isnt much middle ground, I was testing a D/D ele with DIamond skin and SOldiers, which had very good survivability and alright damage (0 0 30 20 20 ) but no where near that of a warrior so as a result it simply doesnt make the cut, However certain Burst ele builds are semi viable but eles dont have a high enough base Hp or base armor to go full glass successfully, even though they have good mobility
In conclusion its not that there is ONE godmode build that can play every role well, Warrior can tank and damage but isnt quick , thief is quick and damage but cant tank, SO if your really wanting to go esports in GW2 pick up a warrior its the easiest but be warned its not that face roll, and some thief might just come around and rock ur world!

Solely talking about team arena, entering with a set team.

S-Tier (any team must have them):
-Hambow
-Spirit Ranger

A-Tier (not a must have, but you’d lose out on something without):
-another Hambow or a Thief
-Bunker Guardian
-Necromancer (Condition or MM or Power, just for different jobs) or even yet another Hambow

B-Tier (useable):
-Mesmer (30 dom, instead of Thief)
-Condi Engineer (instead of necro)

C-Tier (just trash):
-Elementalist
-most other builds than listed above

Wolfey.3407:

From an out cast Ranger (doesn’t use melee weapons or spirits or bears)

Annoying as Trahearn:
1) Perma Stun Guardians
2) Hambow Warrior

Requires Thinking:

[…]

Is “perma stun Guardian” a typo (you mean “perma stun Warrior”?) ? I never heard about a Guardian outside the classical holders (bunker builds), burst dps (meditation builds) and some hybrids. In fact I’m having troubles to figure which weapon have the Guardians to induce stun.

Dojo.1867:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It would be nice to see a community built list that shows specs rated top>down for each class and role in all areas of play. This kind of feedback is really helpful for our team.

Engi:

• needs more interaction with gadgets badly
• new heal skills suffers because hard to use in a build and also have enough condi removal in it
• lack of stunbreakers because utility slots are filled with kits (which are necessary to stay competitive in combat)
• weak pistol autoattack
• grenade kit (forced into 30 explosives always) = toolkit > bombkit > flamethrower = elixir gun

I disagree with just about everything you said about Engis. Engis, especially condi engis are very very strong atm. They have many stun breaker options but by design you have to get certain utilities in order to get them and possibly forgo some DPS potential. You can’t have both high damage and high Stun Break access otherwise you would have a class like Mesmer. Just about every Mesmer that I have seen uses both Decoy and Teleport. CC means nothing to them. Furthermore, remember engis have access to a trait that reduces incoming damage by 20% while CC’ed just by putting 10 points in a defensive line.

Condis in the game are incredibly powerful still and completely overshadow builds that rely on direct damage. The few builds that do rely on direct damage (and are effective) are AI builds, again the emphasis here is passive persistent damage source.

Furthermore, if you build bunkery you can completely ignore direct damage because of the strong scaling of defense. This is especially true with multi hit skills. The same Unload or Flurry or Pistol Whip that might do 10k damage to a squishy target might do as low as 2k to 3k to a high defense target while at the same time potentially give incredible amounts of Retaliation damage. Weakness further exacerbates the matter.

Poison and Confusion are incredibly powerful in the current meta. All the DoTs are powerful but these two are especially powerful due to the active sustain heavy meta. That being said, nerfing them would make certain bunker builds practically immortal if direct damage scaling is not changed simultaneously.

Necros are top tier, most necros suck at getting away from pressure, they still have the best aoe Condi pressure as well as some of the best utilities to kill bunkers and focused targets…. the only thing they lack is mobility which they make up for with death shroud and defensive utilities like flesh worm most necros I see suck at positioning themselves in a teamfight which gets them juggled and despite the fact that thief is amazing.. they should get flexed on by peels, a combination of good positioning and successful offensive peels from teammates, necro can dominate a fight

A necro shOuld be on his teams side ex. Forrest necro should be on ledge or stairs and have worm to port up to ledge… if he is on stairs and the enemy team over extends on him his whole team should peel ie guard gives prot.. warrior aoe stuns , ranger sits on thief or engi and the necro should be turning away and have his camera flipped so he can place marks….. biggest mistakes are backpedaling which does nothing.. and but being offensive… this game is pressure counter pressure… if you aren’t putting pressure your team won’t be successful… obviously this whole “rotAtion” of peels isn’t easy so most teams aren’t successful CC does it well with posi and they are successful

If executed it is superior to other comps

yes but if played flawlessly necro is better imo.. playing flawlessly is obv not a reality for the current state of gw2

Lopez.7369:

Arganthium.5638:

Thief is in S tier and Necro is in B tier? Let’s be honest, that’s more than just a bit unrealistic. Putting thief at the bottom of A or in B tier is more accurate, and Necro can easily go into the middle of A. Engineer certainly isn’t worse than guardian or even ranger.

No, it’s not. I go by high-level team arenas. Necromancers would be higher if warriors were lower. Thieves are simply incredible right now.

Too many people judge this game off one-on-one fights or very selective encounters. They’re important, but they don’t decide everything.

It’s really bizarre to see this forum still complain about conditions as condition necromancers slip out of the high-level meta game.

I’m not sure what “high-level teams” you’re looking at right now, but I’ve never seen a single one (or a single player on a high-level team) say that necros aren’t good for those teams.

Warriors are the only reason Necros aren’t in S tier, and MM builds are starting to make that evaluation look very doubtful.

Thieves have 8k less base health than necros. They do have better armor, but that’s more or less offset by the damage absorption necro can get from DS. In order to even become half effective, thieves have to go all-in into damage, or else they just become UP warriors or necros. The net result is that they’ve become extremely gimmicky, and are fairly easy to counter when focused in a team fight, debilitated, or likewise.

Condi necros really aren’t slipping out of this game. Even if they were, it would be very difficult if not impossible to objectively prove that they’re leaving because they’re becoming underpowered.

Well MM was in your statement as viable so your point is irrelevant

Lopez.7369:

Yeah. People citing minion master are very obviously inexperienced at high tiers and basing their experiences off solo queue or some low-level meta in team arenas that I’m completely oblivious to.

Using that as your argument proves nothing; it doesn’t show anything about whether or not MMs are actually good and, assuming they are not, why they aren’t.

Lopez.7369:

That’s fine. The developers have my feedback, so I’m content with what I’ve said.

If you want to learn more about high-level play, look up some streams.

Feedback is pointless without the evidence to back it up. In your case, you’re just citing a couple of so-called “professional” teams. Many, many actual professionals would disagree with your evaluation.

MM is just a cluster of AI mediocre in 1v1 agaisnt alright players and it is a terriblr waste of a class in a teamfight in tpvp

Minion masters? That’s a thing? My mesmer eats them for breakfast. Lockdown mesmer has lots of AoE stuns, dazes, interrupts, etc. Minions doing nothing, necromancer with no stunbreaker, plus obscene burst damage. It’s pretty much a free kill even without resorting to moa morph which makes them all the more pitiful.

Minion masters are just all right. But they have a low skill ceiling and that means that at a certain point, no matter how good they are, they’ll still get facerolled by a better player.

Well this is kind of far off target question since, what is it that you cosider pvp?
Spvp, wvw,tpvp?
Over-all winer is wr, since they can ful fill any rolle in team ,bunker ,far point assulter due to high mobility, home defender u name it…
They can also do any rolles in wvw, so yeah WR is far above other proffesins right now.
Guardians in any game mode s-t/pvp if they shoose some othe build rather than buker point holder are generaly criticised sinec no other calss can do that role beter than they do.

Some bunker engies are now on par with guards hoding points, but still most of teams will prefer guard and engi, then only engi holding point.

Then you have spirit ranger and mm necro bouth good at holding points,and that is what it all about in s-t/pvp , holding points.

Mesmers (with portals) and thiefs are good at fast decap ,but due to stealth mechanics not really good at bunkering.

Since dec. 10, due to diamond skin ele can full fill this bunkering role but still lackig compared to ebgi,guar and wr or even mm necro or spirit ranger.

There is also one build for mesmer and,1 for thiefs that can hold a point at this time but they are class -d for that rolle.

So my list based on how many rolles a class can do effectivly in current s-t/pvp

1-WR
2-Engi/Necro
3-Ranger
4-mesmer
5-Thief
6-guard(even tho they excell at bunker rolle, u will never c a team running offensive guard since ur gimping ur tem if u do so)
7.ele
WvW is entirely different aspect of the game but still wr is most versatile of all.
7-ele

Lopez.7369:

That’s fine. The developers have my feedback, so I’m content with what I’ve said.

If you want to learn more about high-level play, look up some streams.

You can’t balance a game simply around the best players.

You have to account for low risk-reward and cheese builds as well.

Balancing the game for the top 5% has never made game more fun and successful.

warrior
spirit ranger
sd thief

if its not passive regen boons and conditions its evading 7 times in a row people are quitting cause of these 3 classes especially warrior sort it out or this game will be dead in 1 month. STOP PASSIVE ABILITIES AND START FORCING PEOPLE TO USE THEIR BRAINS!

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

warrior
spirit ranger
sd thief

if its not passive regen boons and conditions its evading 7 times in a row people are quitting cause of these 3 classes especially warrior sort it out or this game will be dead in 1 month. STOP PASSIVE ABILITIES AND START FORCING PEOPLE TO USE THEIR BRAINS!

There’s nothing passive about a S/D thief. Play the build for a while and you’ll see that it’s a very active build that really requires a good understanding of evade frames and endurance/ini management to succeed. It’s probably one of the higher skill cap builds in the game.

deda.8302:

6-guard(even tho they excell at bunker rolle, u will never c a team running offensive guard since ur gimping ur tem if u do so)

Tell that to Itty Bitty Bunker. =P

these stealth spammers need a really hard nerf. they are no fun to fight against and are extremely annoying. thank you, anet.

Arganthium.5638:

Lopez.7369:

That’s fine. The developers have my feedback, so I’m content with what I’ve said.

If you want to learn more about high-level play, look up some streams.

Feedback is pointless without the evidence to back it up. In your case, you’re just citing a couple of so-called “professional” teams. Many, many actual professionals would disagree with your evaluation.

More importantly than anything you both are arguing about is who are these top level “professional” teams you guys are referring to that are “defining” the meta? All you have are super pugs running in team queues until they run against a semi competent alternate super pug and then they log.

Rinse and repeat that cycle until you get people claiming to be top level players on the forums and you have the current state of pvp.

I think one of the biggest reasons spirit rangers and mm’s are making the top tier lists is because the AI does almost all the work perfectly every time whereas ranger and necromancers using other builds might just be bad or not skilled enough to make up the difference.

I have seen plenty of really bad warriors too, so I don’t think that makes warriors inherently OP unless an actual statistical difference is found. In fact I’m surprised guardian isn’t higher on the list with awesome bunker ability.

All in all I think it might be easier to say that combos with warriors longbow burst might just be the one that everyone’s figured out. I believe necromancers have some area weakness combo that all the MM’s are running.

The most effective builds I’ve encountered in teamfights are probably the typical healing signet bunker warriors, highly skilled thieves, zerker necros who are good at avoiding fire, condi necros who don’t blindly throw their burst out and point bunker engineers.

Wolfey.3407:

From an out cast Ranger (doesn’t use melee weapons or spirits or bears)

Annoying as Trahearn:
1) Perma Stun Guardians
2) Hambow Warrior

Requires Thinking:
1)Mesmer
2) Thief
3) Condi Necro
4) MM Necro
Easy:
1) Ranger
2) Ele
3) Engineer
4) Power Necro
5) Zerker Guardian
6) Warriors in general

This

basically people want warrior nerfed because of just “one” build while the majority of other builds are trash

Juba.8406:

basically people want warrior nerfed because of just “one” build while the majority of other builds are trash

just like the old D/D ele ^^ though I’d say that D/D ele was never as OP or easy-mode as warrior is now. Warrior would just need a slight nerf to healing-signet, they shouldn’t overdo it like they’ve done with ele. Ele had literally each single utility and trait that was used in the popular build nerfed (even minor traits and runes lol) .

top: warr/thief/guardian
bottom: ele
mid: other

I would say that most of the lists explain very good an overall idea of the class balance state currently, although i believe condi necros are still more powerfull than they should while pet necros are not

Mike.4830:

snip

I agree completely with backpacks list.

The sPvP community is funny…

Before Dec 10th, thieves were put on the bottom tier by most everyone, but in this thread, there’s a lot of people saying that thieves are one of the most powerful when the most powerful thief build (S/D evasion spam) got nerfed and very little changed for other specs.

People seem to put focus on class so much, but I think a lot of people fail to realize just how arbitrary that factor really is, especially compared to just about any other MMO out there.

S tier. In my opinion there are 2 classes that are simply necessary in a competitive team: thieves and guardians.
A good thief can completely lockdown high priority threats (condimancers, rangers, mesmers) and contest the far point with ease.
Guardians with supportive builds are what makes the difference between victory and defeat during team fights.
These two would be my S tier because i see them as necessary in every team.

In my opinion the most effective thief build for teamfights is sword pistol + trickery: infiltrator strike allows you to follow targets that are otherwise hard to focus such as mesmers and other thieves, the short cooldown on your f1 allows you to consistently remove stability and combined with infiltrator strikes allows you to easily reach far away targets.
Talking about guardians, pure of voice and virtues are two must in my opinion.
Games aren’t ruled by necromancers anymore, you can easily afford to play without altruistic healing if your team moves fast enough and the extra support makes the difference in teamfights.

…

A tier. Classes that can hold a point but still do good damage. Basically a side point holder that will occasionally join or switch position with the guardian when needed.
These are in my A tier because they are useful but not mandatory: your team could play on the sides without a second holder, although with increased difficulty.

Honestly, depending on your team comp a lot of different builds can fit here: you could go hambow, minionmaster, automated response engi, spirit rangers, meditation guardian, tanky condimancer and the list goes on and on.

…

B tier. In this tier I place all those builds that are good but don’t fill a specific role and can easily be replaced.

I place here every offensive build left out. This includes 30 20 0 0 20 conditionmancers, most mesmer builds and hgh engineers (and 30 10 0 20 10 engineers too unless your skills are teldo tier). Such builds are good, with the proper team setup they they might even be strategy defining builds, generally, though, if for whatever reason you have to replace one of them your team can still keep playing the way it did before.

Now i know that ranking these builds so low may seem odd but please keep in mind that tiers should not reflect the viability of a class/build but how necessary it is to the team, if for instance your team used to play guardian/thief/warrior/condimancer/hgh engineer switching to guardian/thief/warrior/mesmer/ranger wouldn’t make you change your strategy.

…

C tier. Builds whose role is performed more effectively by other builds.

Prime example: elementalists, if played for area denial they are outperformed by warriors, if played for single target burst they are outperformed by thieves, if played for holding the side point they are outperformed by every single other side holder, if played for playing on the sides they are outperformed by engineers, if played for mid point holding they are outperformed by guardians.

Secondary example: electrostatic discharge engineers, they have very high single target burst and a good amount of crowd control but they can’t hop in and out of fights like a thief, they can’t follow elusive targets, their mobility is generally worse than a thief’s and their burst is regulated by cooldowns.

Josh Davis.6015:

I’ll be honest, I like tier lists, especially when they’re well-made. They’re an interesting insight into player perceptions at different levels of play (even if I think I have a decent grasp on it already!). I also accept that the lists are subjective and are often interpreted in various ways by different individuals.

I’d love to see a new version of this thread flourish, but I think it’s important that we provide context for the lists. Casting a wide net and saying “rate these professions!” is invariably going to cause some polarizing discussion, and I think it’s fairly obvious why. Instead of creating a tier list based off of professions, I think it would be more prudent to create a tier list that includes popular or ‘meta’ builds or even roles, considering that professions are able to be played in such different ways depending on how you build it. For example, there are a multitude of builds for engineer – some top-tier, and some low-tier, but they’re both under the engineer umbrella, and each provide varying levels of results.

Anyways, just my 2c! Try to keep things constructive.

Wouldn’t you have internal stats (via the leaderboards) showing which classes are un-proportionately ranked higher?

It should be US asking YOU to share this information…instead of us littering the forums with subjective analysis.

The stats don’t lie. Just take a profession like guardian and see how their average rank compares to others.

Do this for all of your professions and bingo! You have a good idea of which professions are best at PvP.

Tier A
Riven
Kassadin
Khazix

Tier B
Nasus
Annie
Leona
Lux
Tristana
Caitlyn
Nidale
Vi

Tier C
Taric
Akali

I think this lists would be more valuable if people posted the class they play

Maybe you guys just aren’t getting the same rng in your tpvp match ups as me. It is clear as day though to myself and my team what we see every single day in tpvp. Almost every single round has 2 enemy mm necros. They are far and above the most common build we run into. No matter if u believe them strong or weak its obvious the majority thinks this is one of if not the best builds for tpvp. Next would probably be healing singet hammer warrior sometimes with bow sometimes not. There is usually bound to be atleast one warrior on every enemy team. Other common class/builds are spirit rangers grenade/bomb engi and bunker guardians.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Tier A
Riven
Kassadin
Khazix

Tier B
Nasus
Annie
Leona
Lux
Tristana
Caitlyn
Nidale
Vi

Tier C
Taric
Akali

But… isn’t Mordekaiser numero uno?XD

Dahkeus.8243:

The sPvP community is funny…

Before Dec 10th, thieves were put on the bottom tier by most everyone, but in this thread, there’s a lot of people saying that thieves are one of the most powerful when the most powerful thief build (S/D evasion spam) got nerfed and very little changed for other specs.

People seem to put focus on class so much, but I think a lot of people fail to realize just how arbitrary that factor really is, especially compared to just about any other MMO out there.

Thieves have always been OP, so OP that they forced absolutely everybody to build into survival. That’s what created the pre Dec 10 meta and led thieves to be unfavored in tpvp; even just the threat of running into a thief at this time kept other fragile builds in check.

Now post dec 10 we have a lot of new players that are not adhering to the old meta—they are running glassy burst builds that are getting mopped up left and right by thieves. Are they just ‘bad’ for trying to play burst builds? Or is thief(teleporting, really) so strong that builds which should be reasonable have become unplayable?

Thieves negate nearly all positional advantage besides stacking (wvw style); there is very little counterplay that will keep them off of your face when they have so many teleports to spam.

Not surprised Elementalists are dominating last place. The profession is just so badly designed as far as PvP goes.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Tier A
Riven
Kassadin
Khazix

Tier B
Nasus
Annie
Leona
Lux
Tristana
Caitlyn
Nidale
Vi

Tier C
Taric
Akali

Dude ..lol :P
They are gonna destroy my riven though..kitten you riot and your sense of balance.Why cant they learn from anet

Why is everyone posting Condi-Necros on top?

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

^

dietzero.3514:

Not surprised Elementalists are dominating last place. The profession is just so badly designed as far as PvP goes.

This.

The class feels so fragile regardless of build, so slow and cumbersome with abilities (huge telegraphs + slow cast times), such few viable options with builds and slot skills, weak damage, so much hard work only to get facerolled by passive/AI nonsense, no role in PvP that can’t be done vastly better by another class/build.

There is no single best PvP class, since PvP is a team match. On 1v1 those ranks are valid, but the synergy on the them is FAR more important. I.E. a friend and I (burst Thief + bunker Guardian) can change the course of almost any battle. If we have a ranged DPS with us, it gets even better. We should worry about team building, not 1v1 encounters (since most ppl retreat/get help when losing).

as someone who plays most of the class intensively and know how to counter most of them ill give you the tier base on how hard is it to kill them for me. (base on me playing MM necro) btw this is base on good players im fighting with not just some newbs who hop on a new class coz he thinks its OP.

S tier
warrior Hambow
engineer grenades
mesmer shatter

A tier
necromancer power ( he kills you asoon as he pops hes elite )
ranger spirit
guardian bunker dps hybrid

B tier
elementalist d/d bunker heals all the time and can quickly go in and out the fights.
thief who dodge a lot with thier bows and cleave you with sword and blinds you all the time.

C tier
all newbs who play thier new class coz they thinks its OP. theres a big difference fighting a newb MM necro versus someone whos good at playing necro. i seen most MM necro only use staff and not switch thier weapons during fight or hambow who only use hammer LOL its like playing elementalist and you ony use 1 element the whole game. newbs vs pro big difference.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

necromancer power ( he kills you asoon as he pops hes elite )

imo plague is still more useful: you can’t break out of stun, res or stomp in lich form, the only thing you get is an insanely powerful autoattack.

Stop crying about Elementalists, they’ve been OP and good meta for a lot of time.. They would need a buff ofc, but come on, you’re getting yourself ridicle.

S TIER (too strong and/or too much reward for little or no risk)
- Warriors
- Spirit Rangers
- Necromancers

A TIER (really strong but probably balanced)
- Engineer
- Guardians
- Thieves
- Mesmers

B TIER (not a single viable build)
- Elementalists

Overall I think warriors, spirit rangers and necros are simply way too easy to play for the rewards they get (extremely high sustain, great damage).

Engineers, Mesmers and Thieves are really good but they can be defeated with skillful play and they at least take some amount of skill to be good with.

Guardians haven’t changed since release. They still are the #1 needed class to bunker mid. Which doesn’t make them OP, but there should be other classes capable of filling that role (bring the player not the class). Elementalists at release looked like they could fit the role, with staff, but that was swiftly nerfed.

Overall Eles need a LOT of help. They still don’t have any build diversity, they still have the exact d/d bunker build setup they had at release, only it has been nerfed to make it unviable. Fresh Air isn’t viable either because while it brings insane burst damage (too much actually, and it shouldn’t all be instant) they simply explode when looked upon, especially by thieves and mesmers.

Nice thread, I’de like to throw in a couple of cents.

People are talking alot about warriors OPness and especially the hambow. I play several builds on several classes and i think i know them quite well. I just cannot agree with warrior being OP, and especially the hambow build. Its very popular right now so i played vs alot of people using it, and i even tried it myself for about 10 games. Its just not that great as people are saying at all imo.
The healing signet isnt OP either imo, but it is strong. I think its wierd that the strongest heal for the class is the one that doesnt require any attention or skill at all, doesnt make sense to me. But then again the other heals for the warrior just feels very lacking.

Anyway here’s my list:

OP:
None

viable:
Ranger (spirits)
Guardians (Especially bunkers are always good for any team)
Thieves (Fast and backstabs can always finish any fight quick)
Warriors (Hambow is viable, but there are other builds working fine but seeing not so much use)
Engineers (great with conditions)
Necros (MM is great, but other builds are also quite viable. MM i find very annoying though)

Not viable:
Ranger (anything not spirits)
Ele (Just really weak atm)

I didnt say anything about mesmers because i dont know them very well, its the only class i havent played yet. I have seen some very good mesmers recently though so i know its possible, but i cant tell what build they were using with certainty.

Overall i think the game is quite balanced, most classes have good options but eles and rangers needs a bit buffing imo. Then there is plenty of random skills and weapons all across the board wich aint very good aswell, and some classess have more options then others. This is where i think the warrior shines, as it has the most viable builds of all classes.

Sneaky Edit: I think its interesting that these lists even though some some things tend to come up time after time, alot of them are very different from each other. I think that means that the game is in a very balanced state atm, with a couple of exceptions. People just have different ideas because they play different classes and have different experiences.