Guild Wars 2

Amaterasu.6280:

The only problem with blinds right now are they are literally stuck on you until you hit someone. There should be a short duration before it is automatically taken off…maybe a 3-5 few secs at most.

I’ve come out of fights being completely blinded for the entire duration of until I find someone else to hit across the map…

Pretty much, but lets be fair here, the big problem here is thief spamming capabilities, i dont think any other class can perma blind you like thieves.

It definitely should not go back to swinging your weapon in the air removes blind. That kind of ruins it for non spammable blinds.

Navzar.2938:

It definitely should not go back to swinging your weapon in the air removes blind. That kind of ruins it for non spammable blinds.

Definitely i dont want a unjustifed nerf on someone that dosent deserves it, but thieves spam needs to be stoped, the problem is that is their main mechanic, so, this goes to the devs to see how they can manage this problem.

u can only put 2 blind fields with full init and 3 after a few sec, the only way to have perma blind some1 is that they are dumb enough to stay on the blind field forever.

Perhaps there could be a (relatively low) stacking cap on blinds so that only 3 durations can be combined. That way players don’t get stuck with a leftover 20s blind after a fight.

Just a friendly reminder is THIEVES and blinds.

I already see this thing heading down the same ugly road as Confusion. Which was MESMERS and confusion. And every other profession that used confusion got slapped down along with them.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Fenrir.5493:

I knew this thread is gona make blind spam thieves mad, but well is a cheap mechanic really, its a really bad implemented core mechanic is the thief itself, they, because of that spam mechanic should have not easy acces to blinds, im tired of seing blind spam on thieves its ridiculous is cheap.

excuse me but if u see a necro’s well would u stay on top of it ?

Necro wells aren’t spammable. And yes, I would, because it covers the whole point and if I move away from it he decaps it.

swinsk.6410:

Thief blind doesn’t need nerf. It’s part if our defense. We don’t have endure pain or mist form or elixir s, etc. All we got is blinds and stealth and evades. All which can be countered, unlike a endure pain or mist form, etc.

L2p or nerf it and give thieves invulns.

Another single-class thief player posting “L2P” … yawn.

Now if he said “L3P” we’d have a discussion on our hands!

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Fenrir.5493:

I knew this thread is gona make blind spam thieves mad, but well is a cheap mechanic really, its a really bad implemented core mechanic is the thief itself, they, because of that spam mechanic should have not easy acces to blinds, im tired of seing blind spam on thieves its ridiculous is cheap.

excuse me but if u see a necro’s well would u stay on top of it ?

That statement would make sense if necros had initiative and were able to spam wells all the time. Since they don’t, lets get back to how thieves need to not spam blind.

Also, the Well of Darkness is a dark field. Projectiles lifesteal from a dark field. Black Powder is a smoke field. Projectiles and whirls (two things that thieves do a lot of) blind from a smoke field.

you cant spam the blind field its not like it cost the same init like heartseeker cost.. like i said u can do 2 then wait for a bit then u can do it again, if u are fully specced for init regen yes u can spam it but well u are not doing a lot of dmg.. i got killed many times on my blind field its not like it makes me invulnerable or something like that.

i never have problems killing a thief in a blind circle.

Just step a little out of the circle and attack him, you have the range to hit him.

Please learn mechanics first then complain.

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

Of course is very weak without it -.-

you have to be a really bad player if u get perma blinded.

The good warriors (not many in this post) just take the bow and throw that AOE burst damage they have and also burn and dont care about any blind cricle spam.

And again someone already told u before, we can only use it 2 times spam, after that we have no initiave the cost is toooo high.

Fenrir again you complain about everything, please man take the time to research counters instead of QQ, we are really tired of people with L2P issues spamming this topics in forum.

The only good thing right now thieves are good is for solo roaming in WvW (not even the best utility for that game mode), and you still cry.

I wish my thief could work as warrios does in a dungeon, so i could farm gold to get all my dream items.

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

Thief is one of the most broken classes i have seen in a mmorpg, , the mechanics of that class are terrible designed, SPAMING is their main mechanic, trying to copy the energy system of wow but implemented it without the finishers that prevented rogues to spam their abilities, they couldnt spam their most powerfull abilities with that mechanic, but here in thieves of wars we have anything like this so they can cheese spam all day.

Stealth is broken, leting them to spam abilities from stealth until they hit, entering stealth can be achieved in combat and by multiple abilities.

They have the ability to evade and teleport all day preventing their opponents to catch them, but they can catch their foes with ease.

Ando now the blind…

But all this problems come from one origin, the cheap spam core mechanics of thief class, i never going to take any thief seriously in this game because of this, any thief is using and abusing a broken game class period.

Fenrir.5493:

Thief is one of the most broken classes i have seen in a mmorpg, , the mechanics of that class are terrible designed, SPAMING is their main mechanic, trying to copy the energy system of wow but implemented it without the finishers that prevented rogues to spam their abilities, they couldnt spam their most powerfull abilities with that mechanic, but here in thieves of wars we have anything like this so they can cheese spam all day.

Stealth is broken, leting them to spam abilities from stealth until they hit, entering stealth can be achieved in combat and by multiple abilities.

They have the ability to evade and teleport all day preventing their opponents to catch them, but they can catch their foes with ease.

Ando now the blind…

But all this problems come from one origin, the cheap spam core mechanics of thief class, i never going to take any thief seriously in this game because of this, any thief is using and abusing a broken game class period.

Quiet you.

Honestly, I wish I could engage you on a more sophisticated level, but you’ve proven yourself incapable of such. All I’ve got left is to hopefully shame you into silence. Fat chance, I know, But what can I say? I’m the gambling type.

evilapprentice.6379:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

I think conceptually a Thief was supposed to be a get-in and out quick class. Something that can move quickly, dispense damage, and get out with out a scratch.

That comes down to intelligent teleports, stealth, and being ‘slippery’ to a target.

In-game however, it’s taken a bit further when abused by Blinds and Evades. You’re looking at a class that can teleport (on a weapon skill), teleport as a stun break, teleport to defend (or attack) a point. Then they become amplified by consistent evade frames in-combat and AoE blinds they can apply to a large portion of the enemy.

The problem then comes to light. Is a thief a sustained DPS, or a strategically placed missile that’s difficult to pin down? Warriors were supposed to be the sustained DPS, but it sometimes feels with all of a thiefs Blinds and Evades like Warriors are etched out.

So do thiefs NEED these skills? I’d arguably say yes to the evades, but no to the Blinds (atleast, the sheer amount of them right now).

Overall, I think a lot of people have gotten used to a very specific playstyle for each class. To consider or adopt a strategy that is different than norm to them comes as an insult. This drives people to new classes instead of innovating their current one.

Necromancer dagger 4 blind needs to be looked at, says blinds targets but most times it doesn’t blind jack kitten.

Also Necromancer Corrupt Boon needs to be looked at as well, for some reason it doesn’t even land a lot of the times.

Best blinds in the game are engineer flamethrower and thief pistol 5. Just because they work as intended because other blinds don’t work as intended or broke some small way which is very crucial.

@Defektive (couldn’t quot due to length)

To each spec their own – D/P is a more “missile” spec where BP is its main source of defense. S/D is a more sustained spec where evades are the main source of defense. S/D can generate alot more evades than D/P can generate AoE Blinds, and even single target blinds. I won’t claim to be perfectly knoweldgable on thief TPvP meta, but atm, I can’t think of a single spec that effectively mixes and matches both Blind spam and Evade spam – there’s no spec that supports that kind of initiative expenditure for a spec to do both. If an S/D thief is “Spamming” evades, they’re running Jumpers double S/D 30 acro weapon swapping spec. If the thief is D/P, you just don’t have the init to “spam” Black powder.

The AoE on Black powder isn’t that big – just like any AoE, it’s something you’re supposed to exit ASAP. Anyone can melee the thief in the BP by circling around the effect. At worst, you should be eating 1 blind from a 6 init skill – that’s not exactly game breaking. I doubt anyone is running the “Blind on stealth” trait in SA because Shadow Rejuv, Shadow’s embrace, and Infusion of shadow dwarf it in general utility.

I don’t think stealth should be considered a core gameplay mechanic for thieves anymore. it’s certainly the core of some specs, but with S/D being improved, and some trait setups supporting S/P, thieves finally have non stealth options. Dagger offhand can barely be considered stealth access at this point , with how kittenty CnD is – it’s easily dodged due to being so telegraphed, high init cost, and can be neutralized by block/immunity/evade. The only spec that still has effective stealth is D/P. The point of this is, D/P is the “Missile” spec, with temporary, expensive defensive mechanics intended to support their ability to burst, and S/D -S/P is the sustained, mostly (if not entirely) stealthless spec that relies on evade frames and teleports to stay alive.

I took a month long break right before warriors got their big buff – the difference is noticeable. Warrior survivability has gone through the roof (in comparison to pre-patch) – in a glassy spec (62% crit, 45% crit damage, 3200 power base) I can watch a hybrid warrior eat 3 full PW’s and heal half the damage I’ve done with 1 move. I’m not claiming they’re OP by any means, or even “Fixed” (I don’t really have the experience with warrior to make that kind of claim), but they’re undoubtedly better than they were, and it seems like they’re carving their own niche out with LB specs, CC specs, and Psuedo-bunker specs that don’t rely on boons to survive for a reasonable length of time.

Maybe thief is competing a bit with warrior in the sustained DPS role, but there appear to be some emerging roles for warriors that thief doesn’t compete with on any level.

i thought blind was glitched since beta, until i found out that no, that’s how it was supposed to work.

IMO, blind as it is now is how it should have always been. made no sense otherwise, now it’s actually useful.

I definitely support this as long as they also let me:

remove poison when I jump
remove burning when stop drop and roll
remove stun and immobilize by shaking my mouse
remove bleeding by standing still for 1 second
Remove weakness by moving
Remove chill by running through any fire fields

All of that sounds as logical as removing blind on spontaneous auto attack that is aimed at nothing.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i thought blind was glitched since beta, until i found out that no, that’s how it was supposed to work.

IMO, blind as it is now is how it should have always been. made no sense otherwise, now it’s actually useful.

blind aint perfect, maybe for thieves black powder it is, but necromancer dagger 4 blind easily glitched and doesn’t land, which kitten es me off.

I really hate skills that if you don’t have a target because you accidently clicked someplace else and lost target and you use it, it doesn’t hit anyone in area and starts cooldown, I’m not saying its with this blind but skills like corrupt boon and Mesmer sword 3 where no clone comes out and starts countdown.

As I keep trying new professions I’m learning that a lot of those ranged skills are messed up and they need to fix them, I really want necromancer dagger 4 to work as intended and actually blind people 100% of the time and not cross my fingers and hope it doesn’t glitch out.

Lux.7169:

I definitely support this as long as they also let me:

remove poison when I jump
remove burning when stop drop and roll
remove stun and immobilize by shaking my mouse
remove bleeding by standing still for 1 second
Remove weakness by moving
Remove chill by running through any fire fields

All of that sounds as logical as removing blind on spontaneous auto attack that is aimed at nothing.

So, if you were blind … how would you know if you attack was near someone or out in the open with no one for miles? You are blind after all.

Looks like classes in gw2 be needing this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sight_Beyond_Sight

Defektive.7283:

evilapprentice.6379:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

I think conceptually a Thief was supposed to be a get-in and out quick class. Something that can move quickly, dispense damage, and get out with out a scratch.

That comes down to intelligent teleports, stealth, and being ‘slippery’ to a target.

In-game however, it’s taken a bit further when abused by Blinds and Evades. You’re looking at a class that can teleport (on a weapon skill), teleport as a stun break, teleport to defend (or attack) a point. Then they become amplified by consistent evade frames in-combat and AoE blinds they can apply to a large portion of the enemy.

The problem then comes to light. Is a thief a sustained DPS, or a strategically placed missile that’s difficult to pin down? Warriors were supposed to be the sustained DPS, but it sometimes feels with all of a thiefs Blinds and Evades like Warriors are etched out.

So do thiefs NEED these skills? I’d arguably say yes to the evades, but no to the Blinds (atleast, the sheer amount of them right now).

---

Overall, I think a lot of people have gotten used to a very specific playstyle for each class. To consider or adopt a strategy that is different than norm to them comes as an insult. This drives people to new classes instead of innovating their current one.

I think this emerged because they made S/D, P/D and Sb as non-burst sets. They need the sustain to function, and unfortuately D/D and D/P have some access to thier sustain options. If they hadn’t made LS so good, S/D would have stayed in relative obscurity. S/D’s tricky to buff, buff the wrong skills and S/P would overtake it.

sephire.7296:

Target drops. Blinded. Target drops. Blinded. Target drops. Blinded. Seriously?

Is there any build in the game that comes even close to how dull and tiresome fighting a blind-spamming, stealth-spamming thief is?

It’s not skillful, it’s completely mindless. And it’s nothing to do with standing in Black Powder.

Quoted for truth.

Aza.2105:

Looks like classes in gw2 be needing this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sight_Beyond_Sight

That skill was a bit silly, I mean, on a ritualist? They are blind already, they should be immune to blind IMO.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

u can only put 2 blind fields with full init and 3 after a few sec, the only way to have perma blind some1 is that they are dumb enough to stay on the blind field forever.

If they don’t stand on the blind field, you can spam heart seeker to stack stealth and gain 16-25 stacks of might on a signet backstab spec and crit high toughness builds for 6k backstabs.

So it’s a loss either way. You need to be permablinded to keep the thief from stacking stealth and might, but being in the field keeps you blinded.

Dual.8953:

Defektive.7283:

evilapprentice.6379:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

I think conceptually a Thief was supposed to be a get-in and out quick class. Something that can move quickly, dispense damage, and get out with out a scratch.

That comes down to intelligent teleports, stealth, and being ‘slippery’ to a target.

In-game however, it’s taken a bit further when abused by Blinds and Evades. You’re looking at a class that can teleport (on a weapon skill), teleport as a stun break, teleport to defend (or attack) a point. Then they become amplified by consistent evade frames in-combat and AoE blinds they can apply to a large portion of the enemy.

The problem then comes to light. Is a thief a sustained DPS, or a strategically placed missile that’s difficult to pin down? Warriors were supposed to be the sustained DPS, but it sometimes feels with all of a thiefs Blinds and Evades like Warriors are etched out.

So do thiefs NEED these skills? I’d arguably say yes to the evades, but no to the Blinds (atleast, the sheer amount of them right now).

---

Overall, I think a lot of people have gotten used to a very specific playstyle for each class. To consider or adopt a strategy that is different than norm to them comes as an insult. This drives people to new classes instead of innovating their current one.

I think this emerged because they made S/D, P/D and Sb as non-burst sets. They need the sustain to function, and unfortuately D/D and D/P have some access to thier sustain options. If they hadn’t made LS so good, S/D would have stayed in relative obscurity. S/D’s tricky to buff, buff the wrong skills and S/P would overtake it.

Except 3.5-4k crits on larcenous strike that can be chained 3-4 times isn’t sustained. It’s sheer burst with ridiculous sustained on top of it all.

The sword auto 3rd part of the chain hits nearly as hard as larcenous, costs nothing, and applies cripple and weakness.

Zenith.7301:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

u can only put 2 blind fields with full init and 3 after a few sec, the only way to have perma blind some1 is that they are dumb enough to stay on the blind field forever.

If they don’t stand on the blind field, you can spam heart seeker to stack stealth and gain 16-25 stacks of might on a signet backstab spec and crit high toughness builds for 6k backstabs.

So it’s a loss either way. You need to be permablinded to keep the thief from stacking stealth and might, but being in the field keeps you blinded.

Dual.8953:

Defektive.7283:

evilapprentice.6379:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

I think conceptually a Thief was supposed to be a get-in and out quick class. Something that can move quickly, dispense damage, and get out with out a scratch.

That comes down to intelligent teleports, stealth, and being ‘slippery’ to a target.

In-game however, it’s taken a bit further when abused by Blinds and Evades. You’re looking at a class that can teleport (on a weapon skill), teleport as a stun break, teleport to defend (or attack) a point. Then they become amplified by consistent evade frames in-combat and AoE blinds they can apply to a large portion of the enemy.

The problem then comes to light. Is a thief a sustained DPS, or a strategically placed missile that’s difficult to pin down? Warriors were supposed to be the sustained DPS, but it sometimes feels with all of a thiefs Blinds and Evades like Warriors are etched out.

So do thiefs NEED these skills? I’d arguably say yes to the evades, but no to the Blinds (atleast, the sheer amount of them right now).

---

Overall, I think a lot of people have gotten used to a very specific playstyle for each class. To consider or adopt a strategy that is different than norm to them comes as an insult. This drives people to new classes instead of innovating their current one.

I think this emerged because they made S/D, P/D and Sb as non-burst sets. They need the sustain to function, and unfortuately D/D and D/P have some access to thier sustain options. If they hadn’t made LS so good, S/D would have stayed in relative obscurity. S/D’s tricky to buff, buff the wrong skills and S/P would overtake it.

Except 3.5-4k crits on larcenous strike that can be chained 3-4 times isn’t sustained. It’s sheer burst with ridiculous sustained on top of it all.

The sword auto 3rd part of the chain hits nearly as hard as larcenous, costs nothing, and applies cripple and weakness.

Re-read what I wrote. “If they hadn’t made LS so good…”

ok lets say that tomorrow they nerf blackpowder and i dont know it doesnt blind u anymore or it doenst make u cloak or something like that (anet are dumb enof to do that) what would the thief have left after that?

p/p it has good burst but is easy to avoid (its really fun i hope someday they make it more viable), s/p would suck, d/d is meh, p/d i just think it sucks, then what all thieves will be using s/d and having lots of dodges/escapes/decent burst and then people will whine about that and then what? -.-

Zenith.7301:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

u can only put 2 blind fields with full init and 3 after a few sec, the only way to have perma blind some1 is that they are dumb enough to stay on the blind field forever.

If they don’t stand on the blind field, you can spam heart seeker to stack stealth and gain 16-25 stacks of might on a signet backstab spec and crit high toughness builds for 6k backstabs.

So it’s a loss either way. You need to be permablinded to keep the thief from stacking stealth and might, but being in the field keeps you blinded.

Dual.8953:

Defektive.7283:

evilapprentice.6379:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

As someone stated before, on paper we can say a lot of things but the reality is that thieves DO spam blinds.

Either that or spam evade frames.

Either way it’s pretty cheesy. But it begs the question of why does it exist? Possibly because the class is weak without it? IDK, won’t really know unless we took it away.

You’re the defektive everyone talks about/to when they’re talking warrior strats/TPvP, right? If not, you can ignore this next part.

Assuming you are, don’t you think “Won’t really know unless we take it away” is a bit disingenuous? Is it really that hard to envision what you could do to a thief if they couldn’t evade alot or blind you? You’ve certainly fought some while TPvPing, you honestly can’t imagine what a free kill they’d be without those defensive tools? Come on.

When people were crying endlessly about stealth, Anet finally gave thieves another way to survive with usable, effective evades. Turns out people think those are broken too!

I think conceptually a Thief was supposed to be a get-in and out quick class. Something that can move quickly, dispense damage, and get out with out a scratch.

That comes down to intelligent teleports, stealth, and being ‘slippery’ to a target.

In-game however, it’s taken a bit further when abused by Blinds and Evades. You’re looking at a class that can teleport (on a weapon skill), teleport as a stun break, teleport to defend (or attack) a point. Then they become amplified by consistent evade frames in-combat and AoE blinds they can apply to a large portion of the enemy.

The problem then comes to light. Is a thief a sustained DPS, or a strategically placed missile that’s difficult to pin down? Warriors were supposed to be the sustained DPS, but it sometimes feels with all of a thiefs Blinds and Evades like Warriors are etched out.

So do thiefs NEED these skills? I’d arguably say yes to the evades, but no to the Blinds (atleast, the sheer amount of them right now).

---

Overall, I think a lot of people have gotten used to a very specific playstyle for each class. To consider or adopt a strategy that is different than norm to them comes as an insult. This drives people to new classes instead of innovating their current one.

I think this emerged because they made S/D, P/D and Sb as non-burst sets. They need the sustain to function, and unfortuately D/D and D/P have some access to thier sustain options. If they hadn’t made LS so good, S/D would have stayed in relative obscurity. S/D’s tricky to buff, buff the wrong skills and S/P would overtake it.

Except 3.5-4k crits on larcenous strike that can be chained 3-4 times isn’t sustained. It’s sheer burst with ridiculous sustained on top of it all.

The sword auto 3rd part of the chain hits nearly as hard as larcenous, costs nothing, and applies cripple and weakness.

Sigh.

4 seconds of Highly telegraphed abilities isn’t “Burst” – every LS is preceded by a whirling, swooshing stab for .5s, then an obvious .5s arm kitten animation that lets you know “LS IS COMING!”. 3-4 times in a row is 15-20 Init – even with 10/0/0/30/30 double S/D weapon switch, you just blew all or almost all your init in 4 seconds…meaning no Inf strike, no shadow return, no more tricks up your sleeve.

Also, 3.5k – 4k crits (Not hits, Crits, which apparently we can rely on to always happen) is a rather subjective number. Any S/D thief who “spams” FS/LS is running 30 acro double S/D – there’s literally no other way to support the init cost. That build sacrifices alot of power to get the traits it needs for sustained init regen. To get those kind of crits I’m probably hitting another glass spec, and those numbers aren’t impressive on glass v glass.

The third part of Sword AA costs 1.5s and 2 kittenty swings before it – if you can dodge LS and CS, you just nerfed swords DPS by a huge amount, as they’re the only abilities that do any damage for the set (and lucky for you, they have the exact same animation, so it’s super easy to know exactly which ability to dodge).

Don’t use hyperbole and made up numbers to reinforce your point, there’s enough misinformation on these boards already.

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

Hector.6950:

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

The only classes which can’t use their second downed skill absolutely are Warrior, engineer, and necro.

Guardians and rangers #2 is instant cast, so even in Black powder, you can burn the blind with your 1 skill and immediately hit your 2 skill before the blind pulses again. It’s happened to me plenty of times.

evilapprentice.6379:

Hector.6950:

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

The only classes which can’t use their second downed skill absolutely are Warrior, engineer, and necro.

Guardians and rangers #2 is instant cast, so even in Black powder, you can burn the blind with your 1 skill and immediately hit your 2 skill before the blind pulses again. It’s happened to me plenty of times.

Srry, yes i forgot warrior and engineer. Another reason not to run a warrior in tPvP. Also, the ranger instant skill is only good when you cast it right before you die, not at start, since it only interupts an attack and does not knockback.

evilapprentice.6379:

Hector.6950:

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

The only classes which can’t use their second downed skill absolutely are Warrior, engineer, and necro.

Guardians and rangers #2 is instant cast, so even in Black powder, you can burn the blind with your 1 skill and immediately hit your 2 skill before the blind pulses again. It’s happened to me plenty of times.

That’s if you get the timing right, but with lag it can make doing that quite challenging. And of course, they will just drop black powder again.

Aza.2105:

evilapprentice.6379:

Hector.6950:

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

The only classes which can’t use their second downed skill absolutely are Warrior, engineer, and necro.

Guardians and rangers #2 is instant cast, so even in Black powder, you can burn the blind with your 1 skill and immediately hit your 2 skill before the blind pulses again. It’s happened to me plenty of times.

That’s if you get the timing right, but with lag it can make doing that quite challenging. And of course, they will just drop black powder again.

If you’ve successfully gotten your interrupt off, BP didn’t counter your downed interrupt skill. If they had to drop a second BP, congrats, you cost a thief 12 init for a stomp.

Hector.6950:

For me personally blind is very anoying, because i can’t use my second skill effectively when being downed (my main is ranger). In other words, blind is just as effective as stabillity when it comes to killing a downed person. As it is so easy to spam, it makes Necro’s, Guards and Rangers downed abilitys pretty much useless. Other then that blind is fine.

Devs, mayby a good option is to make downed skills immune to blind?
Or mayby an immune to blind trait when being downed. That would be nice

Quoted for truth.

evilapprentice.6379:

Sigh.

4 seconds of Highly telegraphed abilities isn’t “Burst” – every LS is preceded by a whirling, swooshing stab for .5s, then an obvious .5s arm kitten animation that lets you know “LS IS COMING!”. 3-4 times in a row is 15-20 Init – even with 10/0/0/30/30 double S/D weapon switch, you just blew all or almost all your init in 4 seconds…meaning no Inf strike, no shadow return, no more tricks up your sleeve.

Also, 3.5k – 4k crits (Not hits, Crits, which apparently we can rely on to always happen) is a rather subjective number. Any S/D thief who “spams” FS/LS is running 30 acro double S/D – there’s literally no other way to support the init cost. That build sacrifices alot of power to get the traits it needs for sustained init regen. To get those kind of crits I’m probably hitting another glass spec, and those numbers aren’t impressive on glass v glass.

The third part of Sword AA costs 1.5s and 2 kittenty swings before it – if you can dodge LS and CS, you just nerfed swords DPS by a huge amount, as they’re the only abilities that do any damage for the set (and lucky for you, they have the exact same animation, so it’s super easy to know exactly which ability to dodge).

Don’t use hyperbole and made up numbers to reinforce your point, there’s enough misinformation on these boards already.

Everything in this game is telegraphed, and considering people have 3 dodges at best in the beginning of a fight, and you can root with infiltrator strike before a larcenous (it’s a saved ability you don’t need to use immediately) so they can’t dodge makes your nitpicking pointless.

Pop signet for ini, pop roll for initative, voila you have far more high sustained damage than your target can dodge, and your resources recharge a lot faster than your target’s while having high evasion time.

And yeah with prec signet and fury from either lyssa or the critical hits traitline or from stealing is pretty reliable crits. I look at upwards of 67-70% crit chance.

Don’t talk out of your kitten as if some of use don’t have thieves we play and exploit.

The sword auto is not crappy. The first 2 hits crit for 1.5-1.7 k, and cleave while the third attack is a larcenous strike in exchange for cripple and weakness instead of boon steal.

swinsk.6410:

Thief blind doesn’t need nerf. It’s part if our defense. We don’t have endure pain or mist form or elixir s, etc. All we got is blinds and stealth and evades. All which can be countered, unlike a endure pain or mist form, etc.

L2p or nerf it and give thieves invulns.

Sure, id trade endure pain for spamming blind or stealth, im not even asking for both, just one, and im not even going to ask some backstab skills if it is stealth we get.

enjoy your condition apply able, CC able endure pain.

Lighter.5631:

swinsk.6410:

Thief blind doesn’t need nerf. It’s part if our defense. We don’t have endure pain or mist form or elixir s, etc. All we got is blinds and stealth and evades. All which can be countered, unlike a endure pain or mist form, etc.

L2p or nerf it and give thieves invulns.

Sure, id trade endure pain for spamming blind or stealth, im not even asking for both, just one, and im not even going to ask some backstab skills if it is stealth we get.

enjoy your condition apply able, CC able endure pain.

Stealth has a 4-5 sec cd. Endure Pain and Mist Form have a 60-75 sec cd lol.

I’ll take stealth and a double stunbreaker in one utility (shadowstep has got to be the most OP utility in the game — it clears conditions, it has TWO stun breaks, and it’s a teleport to boot for a measly 50 sec cd).

Also don’t forget Plague form, just countered a 1v1 in tpvp with a necro,landed all my attacks, dodged his hits and interrupted his heal,hes down to like 15%, im at 75%, bam plague form, cripple blind spam,end of plague, im down, his heal backup right after, really? anet? i win button?

Blinds need to go back or need a CD on that plague blind spam

Blind is perfectly fine as it is. If thieves were so OP “spamming” blinds non stop while carving you a new one, why don’t we see teams with more than 1 thief completely dominating all the middle fights?

Anelyn.4593:

Blind is perfectly fine as it is. If thieves were so OP “spamming” blinds non stop while carving you a new one, why don’t we see teams with more than 1 thief completely dominating all the middle fights?

“why don’t we see teams with more than 1 XXX completely dominating all the middle fights?”

what a bad argument that is, well, not even bad, just doesn’t stand at all

Anelyn.4593:

Blind is perfectly fine as it is. If thieves were so OP “spamming” blinds non stop while carving you a new one, why don’t we see teams with more than 1 thief completely dominating all the middle fights?

Because ranged attacks are not affected by melee blind fields/ D/P thieves hardcounter melee specs and dominate 1v1. Not everything is about team fights.

Lighter.5631:

Also don’t forget Plague form, just countered a 1v1 in tpvp with a necro,landed all my attacks, dodged his hits and interrupted his heal,hes down to like 15%, im at 75%, bam plague form, cripple blind spam,end of plague, im down, his heal backup right after, really? anet? i win button?

Blinds need to go back or need a CD on that plague blind spam

If you lost to plague you are bad.

Zenith.7301:

Everything in this game is telegraphed, and considering people have 3 dodges at best in the beginning of a fight, and you can root with infiltrator strike before a larcenous (it’s a saved ability you don’t need to use immediately) so they can’t dodge makes your nitpicking pointless.

Pop signet for ini, pop roll for initative, voila you have far more high sustained damage than your target can dodge, and your resources recharge a lot faster than your target’s while having high evasion time.

And yeah with prec signet and fury from either lyssa or the critical hits traitline or from stealing is pretty reliable crits. I look at upwards of 67-70% crit chance.
Don’t talk out of your kitten as if some of use don’t have thieves we play and exploit.

The sword auto is not crappy. The first 2 hits crit for 1.5-1.7 k, and cleave while the third attack is a larcenous strike in exchange for cripple and weakness instead of boon steal.

So now we’re throwing in the Init cost for Inf strike and Shadow return to this “Sheer Burst”? Now we’re talking about 20-25 initiative in a 5-6 second span – it’s pretty clear you don’t know how to play a thief. Let’s also not forget there are blocks, immunities Snares, roots, and general CC to go along with those dodges(and before you cite evasion again, LS does not evade)

Stating Facts is not nitpicking – you’re making generalizations and rounding up. You have to find some way to dismiss it because otherwise you don’t have a point. Some examples
- 65-70% crit is not the same as 100% crit – specifically, in you’re example, “4 LS’s crit for 3.5k-4” -No, on average, 3 out of 4 of them do.
- Your “3.5k to 4k crits” is an exaggerated number. You can get roughly 3.5 k crits against a target with 2000 armor when you have over 6 init, your endurance isn’t full AND your target is below 50% health. Fulfilling the conditions for 2 25 point minor traits and a grand master trait while isn’t a “typical” situation – you should expect a glass cannon fulfilling all it’s DPS boosting trait conditions to hit you really hard. It’s not nitpicking to point out how you’re just making up numbers, which I did in the last post – you ignored it because you can’t argue against facts.
- Slice and Slash do crit hard – they also leave the thief wide open for counterattack. Since the only way to do damage in the spec is to go full glass cannon, that’s a bad thing. The cast time and aftercast of the second and third swings of AA make them your lowest priority attacks – you need to be good and play close attention to whats going on if you want to use them.
- Not many thieves use RFI – Shadowstep is vastly superior as a stunbreaker, and as a condition cleanse. It can also be used to stomp, used for mobility, and its CD is 10s faster than RFI.

Even if the little picture you painted above was true (lets be totally clear, it isnt), what would it matter? Is it strange that GC thief spending ALL its initiative and ALL its utilities might be dangerous? The same can be said of any class, really.

I see your little wail about stealth later on in the thread – I’m thinking you’re just another forum member who likes to cry about everything a thief does. Don’t worry to much about being completely wrong, at least you have alot of peers here.