Guild Wars 2

Hit them with shortbow -> stealth yourself -> backstab
I don’t know why Aegis should be a problem at all, as it procs just every 30 seconds if traited and gets removed instantly by autoattacks etc.

The skillcap on the class is pretty high like in hotjoins its rare to see good thiefs. Why further increase skillcap? It will make every other class look faceroll. You people say its a easy class to play but I disagree they have to pull of quite a bit to do it, for example they have to make sure someone does not interrupt them them while hbing into the blackpowder and they are a glass cannon so they have to pay quite a bit of attention as they can get bursted in a matter of seconds.

Honestly L2P bro enough said…….

apt.9184:

The skillcap on the class is pretty high like in hotjoins its rare to see good thiefs. Why further increase skillcap? It will make every other class look faceroll. You people say its a easy class to play but I disagree they have to pull of quite a bit to do it, for example they have to make sure someone does not interrupt them them while hbing into the blackpowder and they are a glass cannon so they have to pay quite a bit of attention as they can get bursted in a matter of seconds.

It wont be THAT hard to land backstab not into aegis/block if you are looking at screen, and not drinking beer, eating chips, etc. OP is right. If you’re trying to faceroll, you should be punished for this. x2 if you are thief in stealth, OF COURSE.

The way thieves are talking about aegis, an outsider will get the impression that it’s some kind of super spammable skill that guardians can just put up whenever they want.

Time for a little education.

As others have pointed out, guardians have at most two or three aegis sources and you need to trait for it. These are on looooong cool downs. It’s trivial for a thief to break aegis, then stealth again in 4 seconds.

So what the hell is all this junk about aegis? It seems most thieves want to kill their target in two seconds and god forbid if they have to stealth again or display even the slightest amount of combat awareness.

Don’t compare long CD defensive skills with spammable stealth. It just makes you look dumb.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Kolly.9872:

milo.6942:

Kolly.9872:

yeah and why on the earth I have 3 secs (4 if traited) for position myself right behind my target (cos we know that BS will cause weak dmg otherwise, right?), while my target can have Aegis pre-casted ages before. Where is the skill on blocking my backstab with a pre-casted autoblock skill?

where is the brain? hit target to remove aegis then stealth? where has brain gone

I already do this mate, every time.. do not come here and try to teach me how to play my thief.
But where is the skill on activaing Aegis at the right time, when I can just activate it and forget about it?
as I said make Aegis only lasts 3 seconds (4 if traited), just like every stealth skill, give it 4 secs of cooldown after a succesfull block and then we can talk about how to change the reveal debuff for the thief.

You sir, are definitely not a pro player. Do you know cd of aegis skills? Hm? I’ll say it. 90/70 seconds. And if it is 70 seconds, it means that there are much more ways to use guard’s F3 than blocking backstabs. ~4 seconds of stability or/and stunbreaker. If you want to NERF AEGIS (lold) then appropriate change to stealth would be increasing revealed duration to 60 seconds. Problems?

and you are a pro player right? that’s why I am calling for nerfs and you not…
stop complaining and learn to play, for me guardian and thieves are in a good spot right now

Kolly.9872:

stop complaining and learn to play

Thats what you need to do first before coming at forums.

100% Yes.

It’s time thieves go through a number of changes to move them away from the hyper gimmick builds they run to more well rounded ones. This does require nerfs (like the one suggested) but also buffs in return.

I wish thief players would stop getting out thier pitch forks every time something that might hurt their class is suggested. Would you guys really not like to see your class moved to an over all better state for both thief and non thief players? … Does-not-compute.

Siric.3589:

100% Yes.

It’s time thieves go through a number of changes to move them away from the hyper gimmick builds they run to more well rounded ones. This does require nerfs (like the one suggested) but also buffs in return.

I wish thief players would stop getting out thier pitch forks every time something that might hurt their class is suggested. Would you guys really not like to see your class moved to an over all better state for both thief and non thief players? … Does-not-compute.

I and several other thieves agree with this. Most thieves that freak out are those that created one because they wanted to steamroll everything after being oneshotted in WvW.

Anything that could make the toon feel the stab should reveal the thief.

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

Geiir.7603:

Siric.3589:

100% Yes.

It’s time thieves go through a number of changes to move them away from the hyper gimmick builds they run to more well rounded ones. This does require nerfs (like the one suggested) but also buffs in return.

I wish thief players would stop getting out thier pitch forks every time something that might hurt their class is suggested. Would you guys really not like to see your class moved to an over all better state for both thief and non thief players? … Does-not-compute.

I and several other thieves agree with this. Most thieves that freak out are those that created one because they wanted to steamroll everything after being oneshotted in WvW.

Anything that could make the toon feel the stab should reveal the thief.

Wait, but you can’t feel where a clusterbomb is coming from the impact, so can clusterbombs keep thieves in stealth now?

This thread is giving me hopes I never knew I had.

I 100% agree that thieves should be revealed when you block something, however there are other things that would need to be balanced in order for this to work.

Currently, with the way aegis/blind/blocks work, this change would make thieves unplayable without additional balancing. Because most aegis and blind last way too long, and lack skill to use well.

ArenaNet needs to make these defensive abilities way more reactionary. You shouldn’t be able to just spam blinds/blocks in order to avoid damage. You should have to react to what other players are doing. Putting up a 30 second Aegis when you see a thief stealth would make it way too easy to counter them. Therefore, I believe the durations and recharges of these abilities need to be changed to allow for more skillful play.

The core issue, however, is that thieves need to start being changed from ultra stealth/evade/gimmick burst into a more well rounded class. I think ArenaNet should turn thieves into a high APM, highly mobile, highly reactionary class to play.

Make it so that thieves cant simply spam one skill in order to be successful. Maybe they could introduce skill chains within weapon skills that provide high risk/reward scenarios (similar to gw1 assassins). And get rid of ridiculous stealth durations! Stealth just isn’t a good mechanic for serious PvP. Make it so that stealth is easy to get, but is a very short duration (1-2 seconds) and unstackable (with tweaking of the revealed buff). That too would make stealth play more reactionary for skillful thieves.

Anyways, I think it is apparent that thieves need to be reworked to turn them into a better designed class. Just my 2 cents.

Elegant Avenger.8042:

I 100% agree that thieves should be revealed when you block something, however there are other things that would need to be balanced in order for this to work.

Currently, with the way aegis/blind/blocks work, this change would make thieves unplayable without additional balancing. Because most aegis and blind last way too long, and lack skill to use well.

ArenaNet needs to make these defensive abilities way more reactionary. You shouldn’t be able to just spam blinds/blocks in order to avoid damage. You should have to react to what other players are doing. Putting up a 30 second Aegis when you see a thief stealth would make it way too easy to counter them. Therefore, I believe the durations and recharges of these abilities need to be changed to allow for more skillful play.

The core issue, however, is that thieves need to start being changed from ultra stealth/evade/gimmick burst into a more well rounded class. I think ArenaNet should turn thieves into a high APM, highly mobile, highly reactionary class to play.

Make it so that thieves cant simply spam one skill in order to be successful. Maybe they could introduce skill chains within weapon skills that provide high risk/reward scenarios (similar to gw1 assassins). And get rid of ridiculous stealth durations! Stealth just isn’t a good mechanic for serious PvP. Make it so that stealth is easy to get, but is a very short duration (1-2 seconds) and unstackable (with tweaking of the revealed buff). That too would make stealth play more reactionary for skillful thieves.

Anyways, I think it is apparent that thieves need to be reworked to turn them into a better designed class. Just my 2 cents.

Unstackable … at 2 seconds max duration … would completely ruin Shadow Refuge utility, as it lasts three. I think when you mention unstackable you’re most likely referring to the infinite stealth duration thieves can get using D/P along with the trait infusion of shadow. #5 against a wall, then 2 until field is gone. Possible to stealth permanently, and I understand where the frustration comes from, as this is pretty stupid IMO.

Very very simple fix to this stealth stacking problem. Give infusion of shadow trait a 5 second CD, problem solved (at least in tpvp). Furthermore this will stop thieves from playing ridiculously stupid in conquest mode, perma stealth does nothing but hurt your team while they simply try to insta gib someone then run away and spend 1-2 minutes preparing to try again! -.-

I tend to use Shadow Refuge to revive allies. I see the possibility that I’m going to get knocked back? Basilisk venom is often ready at a 45 sec CD with runeset of lyssa, pop that for 5-6 seconds of stability while I refuge and revive an ally, or at least try. If your suggested changes would come in, it would successfully pigeonhole thieves even further back into nothing but glass cannons but with a different weapon set because there would be no room to even try to play any kind of remotely supporting role.

Jesiah.2457:

Unstackable … at 2 seconds max duration … would completely ruin Shadow Refuge utility, as it lasts three. I think when you mention unstackable you’re most likely referring to the infinite stealth duration thieves can get using D/P along with the trait infusion of shadow. #5 against a wall, then 2 until field is gone. Possible to stealth permanently, and I understand where the frustration comes from, as this is pretty stupid IMO.

You are completely missing my point. I basically suggested a full rework of stealth and the entire thief class. This would of course include tweaks to many of the weapon skills/ utilities to give thieves several viable non-gimmick builds.

Jesiah.2457:

Elegant Avenger.8042:

I 100% agree that thieves should be revealed when you block something, however there are other things that would need to be balanced in order for this to work.

Currently, with the way aegis/blind/blocks work, this change would make thieves unplayable without additional balancing. Because most aegis and blind last way too long, and lack skill to use well.

ArenaNet needs to make these defensive abilities way more reactionary. You shouldn’t be able to just spam blinds/blocks in order to avoid damage. You should have to react to what other players are doing. Putting up a 30 second Aegis when you see a thief stealth would make it way too easy to counter them. Therefore, I believe the durations and recharges of these abilities need to be changed to allow for more skillful play.

The core issue, however, is that thieves need to start being changed from ultra stealth/evade/gimmick burst into a more well rounded class. I think ArenaNet should turn thieves into a high APM, highly mobile, highly reactionary class to play.

Make it so that thieves cant simply spam one skill in order to be successful. Maybe they could introduce skill chains within weapon skills that provide high risk/reward scenarios (similar to gw1 assassins). And get rid of ridiculous stealth durations! Stealth just isn’t a good mechanic for serious PvP. Make it so that stealth is easy to get, but is a very short duration (1-2 seconds) and unstackable (with tweaking of the revealed buff). That too would make stealth play more reactionary for skillful thieves.

Anyways, I think it is apparent that thieves need to be reworked to turn them into a better designed class. Just my 2 cents.

Unstackable … at 2 seconds max duration … would completely ruin Shadow Refuge utility, as it lasts three. I think when you mention unstackable you’re most likely referring to the infinite stealth duration thieves can get using D/P along with the trait infusion of shadow. #5 against a wall, then 2 until field is gone. Possible to stealth permanently, and I understand where the frustration comes from, as this is pretty stupid IMO.

Very very simple fix to this stealth stacking problem. Give infusion of shadow trait a 5 second CD, problem solved (at least in tpvp). Furthermore this will stop thieves from playing ridiculously stupid in conquest mode, perma stealth does nothing but hurt your team while they simply try to insta gib someone then run away and spend 1-2 minutes preparing to try again! -.-

I tend to use Shadow Refuge to revive allies. I see the possibility that I’m going to get knocked back? Basilisk venom is often ready at a 45 sec CD with runeset of lyssa, pop that for 5-6 seconds of stability while I refuge and revive an ally, or at least try. If your suggested changes would come in, it would successfully pigeonhole thieves even further back into nothing but glass cannons but with a different weapon set because there would be no room to even try to play any kind of remotely supporting role.

Just have stealth not stack in duration.

Okay lets just get rid of shadow refuge, one of the few good utility skills out of a repertoire of useless utilities! That’ll show those thieves who try to play something other than glass and be useful via reviving fallen team mates!

I don’t think it’s so much me missing the point, as you completely ignoring everything I said and instead only plan on pointing out what you have to say.

I’m done with this inane thread. I’d rather not lose braincells having a one sided “debate” with a mindless bunch of tools.

Jesiah.2457:

Okay lets just get rid of shadow refuge, one of the few good utility skills out of a repertoire of useless utilities! That’ll show those thieves who try to play something other than glass and be useful via reviving fallen team mates!

I don’t think it’s so much me missing the point, as you completely ignoring everything I said and instead only plan on pointing out what you have to say.

I’m done with this inane thread. I’d rather not lose braincells having a one sided “debate” with a mindless bunch of tools.

lolwut. xD I just said that stealth and thieves in general need reworking. THAT INCLUDES UTILITIES SKILLS… I also stated that we’d need to improve viability for many different builds. So yeah, you are still completely missing the point.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you know jack squat about balance.

Obviously you need to L2P. If you don’t like the mechanics, don’t play a thief.

Reveal only happens on successful hits, not failed ones. It’s how the game works and it’s balanced this way. Move on.

Every other class spam buttons, why should thief be punished for spamming buttons? Oh right, simply because you don’t like it.

L2P.

swinsk.6410:

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you know jack squat about balance.

Obviously you need to L2P. If you don’t like the mechanics, don’t play a thief.

Reveal only happens on successful hits, not failed ones. It’s how the game works and it’s balanced this way. Move on.

Every other class spam buttons, why should thief be punished for spamming buttons? Oh right, simply because you don’t like it.

L2P.

hahahahahhaha!!
wow that was hilarious
“lern 2 spam nub”

milo.6942:

swinsk.6410:

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you know jack squat about balance.

Obviously you need to L2P. If you don’t like the mechanics, don’t play a thief.

Reveal only happens on successful hits, not failed ones. It’s how the game works and it’s balanced this way. Move on.

Every other class spam buttons, why should thief be punished for spamming buttons? Oh right, simply because you don’t like it.

L2P.

hahahahahhaha!!
wow that was hilarious
“lern 2 spam nub”

So you’re in favor of stealth skills like backstab having a cooldown? And before you’re tempted to compare BS to an autoattack…don’t.

bhagwad.4281:

milo.6942:

swinsk.6410:

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you know jack squat about balance.

Obviously you need to L2P. If you don’t like the mechanics, don’t play a thief.

Reveal only happens on successful hits, not failed ones. It’s how the game works and it’s balanced this way. Move on.

Every other class spam buttons, why should thief be punished for spamming buttons? Oh right, simply because you don’t like it.

L2P.

hahahahahhaha!!
wow that was hilarious
“lern 2 spam nub”

So you’re in favor of stealth skills like backstab having a cooldown? And before you’re tempted to compare BS to an autoattack…don’t.

way to make a strawman

+10. This is what i never understood since game was launched. I cast Chaos Storm on me, get aegis, thief BS me, its blocked and stays cloaked… makes no sense.

Nuka Cola.8520:

+10. This is what i never understood since game was launched. I cast Chaos Storm on me, get aegis, thief BS me, its blocked and stays cloaked… makes no sense.

Lol. A buff Aegis makes sense? As soldiers block the attack with his back? How did Aegis to rescue the cloths?

Let stealth flies when hitting the block. But the block does not have to work from the back.

Is D/X even desired in the tournament scene anymore?

Its great that some people here ‘main’ a thief, but if the only thing you do is play hotjoins, you don’t really know how the class works, nor do you know why it is valuable on a team. Currently, the main element that drives a team to bring a thief isn’kittens burst (eles do that better, safer, more consistently and with more CC), but rather the ability to stealth rotate with refuge.

So what do people in this thread want? Nerf the burst which is already telegraphed and impossible without some sort of advantage in the team fight, nerf the ability to stealth rotate with refuge by making stealth stacking impossible (and therefore forcing everyone out of taking any points in shadow arts). Basically nerf the 1 thing thieves are viable for, or re-nerf an aspect of the class that is supposed to be where they excel, but currently dont.

Here’s a heads up: people want thieves to be less gimmicky and have more sustain, right? That means thieves need to run 30 in shadow arts. If that’s what you want to promote, then shredding stealth duration and stealth openers would do the opposite of what you’re hoping to achieve.

Lol all you people asking for this change really need to make a thief and play top tier tourneys with it. Thiefs are non existent because there are few thiefs that are skilled due to the skill cap being so high and the condi aoe meta. They can be insta gibed in team fights if the user has a slow reaction time. Just cause you get steam rolled by them in hot joins doesn’t mean you can call for a change. Its not a hard class to play decently but playing high tier with it is the real skill (I am talking purely about D/P thiefs and PS I do not play thief as main but I do play it on side when I am bored and hot joining)

CutePicsHunter.7430:

apt.9184:

The skillcap on the class is pretty high like in hotjoins its rare to see good thiefs. Why further increase skillcap? It will make every other class look faceroll. You people say its a easy class to play but I disagree they have to pull of quite a bit to do it, for example they have to make sure someone does not interrupt them them while hbing into the blackpowder and they are a glass cannon so they have to pay quite a bit of attention as they can get bursted in a matter of seconds.

It wont be THAT hard to land backstab not into aegis/block if you are looking at screen, and not drinking beer, eating chips, etc. OP is right. If you’re trying to faceroll, you should be punished for this. x2 if you are thief in stealth, OF COURSE.

Lol i don’t even know what to say to this comment. I never said landing backstab is hard lol….. Surviving, knowing when to burst, when to interrupt, dodging the burst of other classes (since you pretty much get 1 shot if you are not paying attention)…
If you really think thief is easy come try to beat me on warrior with that. I will eat you alive.

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Think of any other situation, where a thief would just try to burst, and all anyone would have to do is put on aegis. As much as you guys are saying 1 button win is backstab, or spamming, 1 button win will block all the thieves damage. Get real.

And its 100% avoidable by using aegis, and dodge rolling, and predicting stealthed movements, if you play a thief then you would know this.

EDIT: I am still all for making backstab unblockable, this might be good for everyone. The thief would then have to get the right angle of attack and a backstab, because it will always hit through aegis.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

EDIT: I am still all for making backstab unblockable, this might be good for everyone. The thief would then have to get the right angle of attack and a backstab, because it will always hit through aegis.

Unblockable sounds nice.

but serious, stealth ending on a failed hit isn’t a matter of balance. The thief isn’t in any position within the game where its a matter of balance, it’s just design, one thats going to upset the prof even more. Given the relatively slow pace of updates it would really suck to do atm.

I’m not trying to nerf thief into the ground or anything. All I’m saying is that it makes zero sense. “I just blocked your close range, single target melee attack! No clue where you are, though.” That has never made any sense and never will, to the point where I was kinda mad the first time I found out that’s how the game worked. I personally would like to see a return to 3s reveal, but have block and evade apply reveal. It would make infinitely more sense that way. If thief needed more buffing after that, I’d be cool with it, let’s just get the game moving more towards sensible mechanics and valuable counter play options to stealth.

cymerdown.4103:

I’m not trying to nerf thief into the ground or anything. All I’m saying is that it makes zero sense. “I just blocked your close range, single target melee attack! No clue where you are, though.” That has never made any sense and never will, to the point where I was kinda mad the first time I found out that’s how the game worked. I personally would like to see a return to 3s reveal, but have block and evade apply reveal. It would make infinitely more sense that way.

3s reveal literally means nothing to the actual performance drop that is going to happen. People dodge nilly willy, even before sensible block, blinds and evasions are put into the equation.

Right, and they should be if they see a thief stealth. And if they time it right and the thief times the bs wrong, there should be a consequence, no? If reveal on evade is too much, starting with block would be a fine start. I agree that evade may be too much considering ranger and thief evade spam builds atm.

cymerdown.4103:

Right, and they should be if they see a thief stealth. And if they time it right and the thief times the bs wrong, there should be a consequence, no? If reveal on evade is too much, starting with block would be a fine start. I agree that evade may be too much considering ranger and thief evade spam builds atm.

The consequence is that the bs doesn’t hit, basi venom is used up and the opponent either gets to wait out the stealth and is given the knowledge regarding where the thief is, so that he can auto at him and try to take the next stab or pommel bash to the face, which does mediocre damage or blinds instead of dazes.

Additionally, if there’s a steal in the combo, which normally there is, steal will not actually provide the thief with a kit if the steal hit is evaded, blocked, or otherwise does not land.

If the thief isn’t 30 into shadowarts, then taking damage while in stealth severely limits the thief’s ability to stay in melee range, which means that giving away his position with a missed attack opens him up to getting blind binding bladed, whirlwinded, etc. which might force him to disengage or outright kill him if he has no other way out.

thieves have a 4 second CD on their burst. most blocks are on a 10 or more CD. good night thieves I hope you learn math soon. 1 skill isnt your burst just play smart and um idk DO IT AGAIN?!?!?!?!?

But then thieves might have to actually try or have some small modicum of skill. The horror.

We are almost 1 year from the game’s launch and you people are STILL complaining about thieves? For real?

Honestly the only way this would be ok is if Shield Block and other defensive skills had a pre-cast, or visible animation BEFORE the blocks are applied. Just as you ask for counter play so would I. Right now the way block stances work, there is no reaction time on my end to correct a backstab going into a warrior that popped shield block at the same time. I would be ok with this change if there was a visible animation leading up to the actual block that was possibly even interruptible.

Asomal.6453:

We are almost 1 year from the game’s launch and you people are STILL complaining about thieves? For real?

This is more a mechanic complaint.

I just as much feel Warriors should lose their adrenaline when they attempt a burst skill. Land or not.

Both mechanics are handicaps that save the Warrior/Thief from their mistake, while effectively making the intelligent play of the opponent worth nothing.

Another simple suggestion to fix that problem: Stealth should not stack.

You guys are all missing one key element. Aegis is a buff you can always see. See Aegis? Throw out an attack BEFORE entering stealth. Done.

If you backstab a Guard with Aegis up, you’re just a noob…plain and simple…

Velron.3729:

Asomal.6453:

We are almost 1 year from the game’s launch and you people are STILL complaining about thieves? For real?

This is more a mechanic complaint.

I just as much feel Warriors should lose their adrenaline when they attempt a burst skill. Land or not.

Both mechanics are handicaps that save the Warrior/Thief from their mistake, while effectively making the intelligent play of the opponent worth nothing.

The difference is warriors have to build to their adrenaline skills. Thieves just ‘press x’ and enter stealth. Way more noob-friendly on the thief’s end.

Archer Henchman.2534:

but if the only thing you do is play hotjoins, you don’t really know how the class works

I’m more afraid to face a good hotjoin player than a tPvP one. tPvP players are used to hanging on to the coattails of their teammates and relying on them to make up for their weaknesses.

True skill is forged in the fire of hotjoin. Not everyone can take it. And those who can’t try and pretend that carebear tPvP is the best where people help each other out of scraps.

swinsk.6410:

All you have to do is use your shield stance or whatever 2s after thief stealths. You will out last his stealth and he will be visible.

then they go stealth right after they are visible for hitting block or doing nothing and then they burst again, cool story

bhagwad.4281:

Archer Henchman.2534:

but if the only thing you do is play hotjoins, you don’t really know how the class works

I’m more afraid to face a good hotjoin player than a tPvP one. tPvP players are used to hanging on to the coattails of their teammates and relying on them to make up for their weaknesses.

True skill is forged in the fire of hotjoin. Not everyone can take it. And those who can’t try and pretend that carebear tPvP is the best where people help each other out of scraps.

That’s not how things work. At all. If you’re subpar at your role in a tpvp team, you will be replaced with a better player and you constantly have pressure to up your game. You will be compared to other players who play your class, and teams will shop around if they feel they could net someone who could fill your role better than you could. What’s more, the opposition you face is organized, the matchups you’re put into are designed to make you lose, and you need to understand rotations and positioning to a far higher degree. Even fights that you could win aren’t worth it if they’re putting your team behind in points. In hotjoins, if I hit my 350 farm-train limit per match, I don’t even give a kitten if my team wins.

Thief in particular plays drastically different in a tpvp setting, because the moment you appear in a team fight, generally 1-2 people begin to train on you immediately, with multiple people available to call target on you. Thieves present a massive liability when downed, much moreso than other classes because while they’re difficult to stomp, they’re probably the easiest class in the game to drop once they’re in revealed, and they have the easiest corpses in the game to cleave, and consequently the hardest corpses in the game to res. As such, even if your combo drops someone but you can’t get out, your team requires the ability to safe-stomp your target, otherwise you just lost your team mid. Eles, the other main burst class, cannot be safestomped, and can evade a large amount of cleave by misting once they see the large-value cleave skills come out.

In hotjoins, I can regularly win 3v1s as a thief because the players are bad, refuse to res each other, don’t attempt to interrupt key skills, have terrible downed fight mechanics and they rotate incredibly poorly between points. In tpvp, I will not even attempt to 1v1 a class that I have a poor matchup against unless I know the player’s spec and what I can get out of the engagement. Hotjoin trait distributions are suboptimal, the players have less experience, and there is far less synergy between the classes, setups, and the teams’ capabilities to engage with the tertiary objectives. In hotjoin I will jump into melee range and beat on a necro in a 4v4 because no one on their team has the presence of mind to call a target on me, isolate me, then run a train on me. In tpvp, I’m forced to bait out key skills while in shortbow, then wait for an opening where most CC skills are down, and someone is at 1/2 hp to jump in, all the while attempting to put out as much pressure as possible from range.

Thieves are often called the class that’s most reliant on their team for success, and that’s because with the severe reduction in our damage output after chain-nerfs to all of our main skills, we’re forced to capitalize on openings that others provide. If your guardian is sitting on a point with aegis up, for instance,

War burst skills go on full cd if they miss. Honestly, if we lost the adrenaline, we could build it back up in the time frame. BS when it misses is able to be queued up again instantly.

The only problem i have with thieves is the amount of blinds they have. Blind destroys warriors its just ridiculous

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

War burst skills go on full cd if they miss. Honestly, if we lost the adrenaline, we could build it back up in the time frame. BS when it misses is able to be queued up again instantly.

This.

Eviscerate is still ~10 secs of cooldown if you miss it.

Even if you can’t land a backstab while stealthed revealed is a 4 sec cd and you don’t have cd’s to contend with. A D/P thief can just keep on BP>HS’ing until he lands a backstab.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

War burst skills go on full cd if they miss. Honestly, if we lost the adrenaline, we could build it back up in the time frame. BS when it misses is able to be queued up again instantly.

Imagine if we could just spam skull crack until it actually connected!

I think what most theifs on here don’t seem to realize is everyone hates the amount of stealth in the game and want it drastically cut. However theifs would clearly need a lot of help in other areas at that point then. We don’t want theifs to be bad, its just the in and out of stealth constantly is not fun.

“I think this mechanic should be added into the game because it makes sense for this to happen and there is no legitimate reason not too.”

These people:
Wow hate on thief more, kick us while we’re down don’t you? All you guys are bad and should learn to play instead of blaming us.

Are these people:
Oh my god I can’t believe ANet made spirit ranger so overpowered this is so dumb passive effects are for people who can’t play the game get rid of this stupid mechanic!

Saying people are bad or that ‘you can counter it’ is fun to say and all, but its hard to take people seriously when they alternate between saying we’re bad and X is so op.