Guild Wars 2

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

I’m not saying I deserve to be in gold or something like that, I just want to at least climb up a single tier without being dragged down by unlucky matchmaking. Carrying a game at my level isn’t possible, I’m not a pro PvPer, I have enough experience to direct a team but not solo everything. The problem is: I can’t climb out of my tier because of two things…

1) Wins and losses are not a measure of personal skill.
1b) The way to counter this would be to add Top Stats to your rating, like +5 for every Top Stat that you earn, to reduce the amount of rating that you lose, or increase it if you win by a large margin.

2) Bronze Tier 1 is too large to climb. Trying to gain 850 rating is very difficult, due to the luck required to gain competent teams every single match.
2b) Obvs, the way to counter this is to reduce the amount of rating required to achieve Bronze Tier 2. I’ve played all of my matches in Bronze Tier 1, I haven’t escaped it, even after a long run of consecutive wins.

It feels as if nothing’s really changed in the PvP system apart from the queue sizes. Of course, this was a test run of the system, but I feel like these tiny changes would make a world of difference for the average player.

Anyway, feel free to tell me to ‘learn to play’ or ‘git gud’, but this is just my infuriating experience of Season 5. o/

EDIT: Additional Information – I’m getting about 2-3 Top Stats per game on average! ;D

Drop the Daredevil, you can’t carry with that profession. Play with a Berserker, Dragonhunter, even marauder Scrapper.

You need to create opportunities where you can fight and survive being outnumbered while your team outnumbers a point elsewhere. That way you have more control into your hands and will also reduce the risk factor for your teammates.

While I can agree with azyume.6321 that does work to an extent but from personal experience sometimes your team will still find a way to lose and find a way to blame you for it even if you are keeping 2 people busy at a point Its a coin toss measure it can benefit you in a lot of ways or it can make you the target of your teams finger pointing if yal should some how lose despite it

Other good way: find someone to play with , DuoQ is so much fun

Swap do D/P thief and play with Mesmer/Scrapper or Druid, when you say you can read the map – than this works really good

I startet this Season as well on Bronze1 – SoloQ ~ but it was no fun.
Now i play with a good friend of mine – mostly Thief/Mesmer and we climped from Bronze1 to Gold T1

I guess this is “ok” for our first Season ever in gw2 (we have +/- 150 wins)

Luciferior.4802:

While I can agree with azyume.6321 that does work to an extent but from personal experience sometimes your team will still find a way to lose and find a way to blame you for it even if you are keeping 2 people busy at a point Its a coin toss measure it can benefit you in a lot of ways or it can make you the target of your teams finger pointing if yal should some how lose despite it

This is the salt from the Community to Thiefs ~ :p

It’s really hard to carry as a Thief when the Team is dying in mid (when Thief is still capping close – cause everyone says “thief close”) , or when someone goes far when mid fight is still ongoing

Get into a 1vX and don’t die. They will turn into rabbis dogs trying to kill you at that lvl of play. If you stay in stealth too much they will lose interest and move on. If your team is getting absolutely mowed down in every fight it’s because they have a better carry. Find the enemy team’s anchor player and focus them entire match. But again, don’t die. If you die then their anchor is going to get free reign over your noobs and snowball the game.

As much as I’d love to say: “I can carry!”, I’m not a pro player. I’m not trying to say that I’m that. And one person of an average quality can’t carry a whole team. If you can solo-carry, that’s quite a step-up from the average player tbh.

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

sephiroth.4217:

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Oh, it’s just another issue with the system. :P

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

Marmatt.8590:

You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

You reminded me of this German kid that played Unreal Tournament…. Old video, some might remember it.

Marmatt.8590:

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

1) The build I’m using is -very- effective in 1v1s, 2v1s, roaming and team-fights, at a cost of health.

2) The meta is 5% of the player. It’s just ‘the best possible build based on statistics’… but the player is in control of the build. A terrible player with the meta could be worse than a good player with a non-meta build.

3) To my knowledge, Top Stats don’t count towards your Skill Rating, so it’s purely based on wins/losses.

Twyn.7320:

Marmatt.8590:

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

1) The build I’m using is -very- effective in 1v1s, 2v1s, roaming and team-fights, at a cost of health.

2) The meta is 5% of the player. It’s just ‘the best possible build based on statistics’… but the player is in control of the build. A terrible player with the meta could be worse than a good player with a non-meta build.

3) To my knowledge, Top Stats don’t count towards your Skill Rating, so it’s purely based on wins/losses.

The point is that what you’re doing right now isn’t working. If it’s been 2 months and you can’t even get out of tier 1 it seems your methods and/or opinions do not work. So I’m simply suggesting you switch it up and see if it works.

Marmatt.8590:

Twyn.7320:

Marmatt.8590:

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

1) The build I’m using is -very- effective in 1v1s, 2v1s, roaming and team-fights, at a cost of health.

2) The meta is 5% of the player. It’s just ‘the best possible build based on statistics’… but the player is in control of the build. A terrible player with the meta could be worse than a good player with a non-meta build.

3) To my knowledge, Top Stats don’t count towards your Skill Rating, so it’s purely based on wins/losses.

The point is that what you’re doing right now isn’t working. If it’s been 2 months and you can’t even get out of tier 1 it seems your methods and/or opinions do not work. So I’m simply suggesting you switch it up and see if it works.

I actually used the meta for the first half of my season, then I changed due to inefficient wins/losses to Vault Spammer, then changed again to D/D. I’ve been through 3 builds in 2 months and this is the first one to provide any results.

In regards to "This is the salt from the Community to Thiefs ~ :p

It’s really hard to carry as a Thief when the Team is dying in mid (when Thief is still capping close – cause everyone says “thief close”) , or when someone goes far when mid fight is still ongoing" I cant speak to whether or not that happens to thieves as I don’t play one but I can safely assume it happens to most classes and people even if you know you are putting in the work but your team still somehow loses and says your the reason why If you are fortunate enough to not be bothered by these things you can keep going just be prepared incase your team somehow kittens up the match and you still get blamed even if you pulled your own weight did your part maybe even carried as hard as you could Sometimes in the rare instance no matter what you do no matter how hard you try someone is going to say you are the reason why they lost and its a safe bet because they don’t want to admit it may have been them easier to blame others then take accountability for ones own mistakes

Twyn.7320:

sephiroth.4217:

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Oh, it’s just another issue with the system. :P

Please do not open up that can of worms.

Last thing we need is for Anet to say ok you want it lets do it like they did in S2.

I think it was Seph posting about playing legendary players and those scores didnt look to good.

Lastly ive seen thief carry hard, i played against and with Edision and in those matches he literally won every 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. Now he is a pro player carrying in the gold/plat division.

All i can say is keep working at it and hopefully MM will be better in S6. Take care

Twyn.7320:

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

…then you are not an “average” player, you are a bottom tier player. I know it’s hard to accept, but that’s the hard reality of it.

Every complaint you have about your team applies equally to the opposite team, so there is absolutely nothing preventing you rising above it all if you have the skill for it.

kdaddy.5431:

Twyn.7320:

sephiroth.4217:

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Oh, it’s just another issue with the system. :P

Please do not open up that can of worms.

Last thing we need is for Anet to say ok you want it lets do it like they did in S2.

I think it was Seph posting about playing legendary players and those scores didnt look to good.

Lastly ive seen thief carry hard, i played against and with Edision and in those matches he literally won every 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. Now he is a pro player carrying in the gold/plat division.

All i can say is keep working at it and hopefully MM will be better in S6. Take care

Yea, the struggle in climbing out of Silver is real lol….

Can’t wait for season 6 though, I really like what Anet tried this season and I see it as a very bold and brave move especially since the game out has been out so long, but it definitely needs some tweaks to create better match ups for everyone and maybe a more accurate reflection of players skill and ranking… Plenty of good suggestions across the forums.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Twyn.7320:

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

…then you are not an “average” player, you are a bottom tier player. I know it’s hard to accept, but that’s the hard reality of it.

Every complaint you have about your team applies equally to the opposite team, so there is absolutely nothing preventing you rising above it all if you have the skill for it.

There’s nothing preventing me from rising up… unless my team is terrible. I can’t control the skill levels of my team members, and if the other team has individuals that are better than my team’s awful members, then we’re guaranteed a loss. I’m not saying I lose every single game, as you can see, I’m winning 50% (near enough) of my games, but in those games, I feel like I’m pulling a lot of the workload whether it’s by capping points that people are avoiding or winning fights bcus 3 people can’t kill 2 enemies on mid. As a thief, I know it’s my job to go around capping/decapping, but my teams just tend to suicide at mid and give nothing to the team, and then I lose rating bcus of it.

In a logical sense: You could have hundreds of bronze players who are actually decent at the game, who are being brought down by the other members on their team, so they’re stuck in bronze due to the calibre of other players, due to the fact that they’re losing their games but pulling a lot of Top Stats in the process, yet wins/losses are the only things that matter towards your rating.

Because winning IS all what matters. PvP is NOT about dealing the maximum amount of dmg or healing, it is not about ressing or killing the most, it is about winning the games. Top stats are pretty meaningless and therefore they shouldn’t contribute to the MMR.

If you are at about 50% win ratio, then it is most likely that you are where you belong. If you want to climb – learn how to win more games.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Because winning IS all what matters. PvP is NOT about dealing the maximum amount of dmg or healing, it is not about ressing or killing the most, it is about winning the games. Top stats are pretty meaningless and therefore they shouldn’t contribute to the MMR.

If you are at about 50% win ratio, then it is most likely that you are where you belong. If you want to climb – learn how to win more games.

Winning should be what matters, definitely. But a losing player can get a Top Stat which shows a valuable contribution to their team’s effort, and that’s a clear measure of player skill. ‘Learn how to win more games’ is the most frustrating comment ever. I’m aware of how to win games otherwise I wouldn’t be at 50%, but I can’t control a whole team without effective communication and competent team members. I want to climb higher but I’m being pulled down by 4 other members.

Top stats show nothing. Sure, sometimes they can show valuable contribution, but often they don’t. You can carry games without getting any top stats and you can play terrible and still get multiple top stats. If top stats would be factor in MMR calculation, it would just encourage players to focus more on getting those stats instead of actually winning games, which is bad.

And how can you know, that it’s always your team dragging you down? (Don’t tell me its becase of top stats). Maybe you just don’t see your own mistakes because you focus too much on your team’s mistakes? Always blaming the team for losses is a mindset that won’t help you climbing. You can’t change how your team plays. You can only change how you play so you should always question yourself “What could i have done better?”.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Top stats show nothing. Sure, sometimes they can show valuable contribution, but often they don’t. You can carry games without getting any top stats and you can play terrible and still get multiple top stats. If top stats would be factor in MMR calculation, it would just encourage players to focus more on getting those stats instead of actually winning games, which is bad.

And how can you know, that it’s always your team dragging you down? (Don’t tell me its becase of top stats). Maybe you just don’t see your own mistakes because you focus too much on your team’s mistakes? Always blaming the team for losses is a mindset that won’t help you climbing. You can’t change how your team plays. You can only change how you play so you should always question yourself “What could i have done better?”.

No one has a perfect game. We all make mistakes, so I know how to identify mine. But when 4 people are trying to cap far, and I’m left to deal with two points alone, with 3 people roaming to try and stop me, I’m not able to do anything.

And are you really being serious with the Top Stats counter-argument? If Top Stats rewarded less than a win, people would focus more-so on getting a win than their Top Stats. Top Stats should just be a bit of a safety net in case you end up losing. Losing 20 rating for a loss isn’t fun, when you only gain 8 for a win.

The thing is, if you are stuck in bronze 1 and can’t get out, then you are not a good player at all, or even average. I am not being mean or anything but I am just stating the facts. Insisting that you are better than your team will get you nowhere, in bronze or in legendary. This isn’t a problem though, because if you really focus on trying to improve, you can become a good player pretty quickly. In maybe 1000 games on your class you can go from useless to pretty good if you focus on improving from mistakes.

First of all, you need to run the meta build. They are meta for a reason- they are far better than any alternatives. If you think you do better with another build, that is fine but you shouldn’t be running it because when you reach a point where you are very good, you will be less effective than people of equal skill.

As others have said, as a thief you need to decap as much as you can and make sure you get kills. You can’t teamfight, so focus on the side caps and smaller fights. You need to rotate well to carry a game and know where to be all the time. Holding a 1v2 is helpful but it is not your job as a thief, so focus on trying to finish off as many kills as you can.

Most importantly of all, DO NOT DIE. This is the most important thing for any player in any division. If you think you could die, then disengage. You are only harming your team if you die. On thief you have many tools to disengage so never overcommit to a fight and leave when you get pressured. Dying on point in a 1v2 is much, much worse than disengaging, even if it means you hold the cap for another 15 seconds.

I hope this helped.

what a joke. me & my pals have decayed down to the bottom of bronze multiple times. climbing out is miserably easy.

just play like a baller & rock peoples socks off. i only play guardian, warrior & engineer NO META BUILDS AT ALL (well, excluding that destroyer amulet build i stole from helseth’s tournament). playing something that you can carry teamfights w & ensure wins is important. i’ve been in a ton of games where my team can’t win teamfights without me in them, so i carry.

being rewarded for high team stat is innane tho. if you climbed this way i would literally just run around the map killing players. ive had multiple games with well over 20kills so i’d just make max kills my goal every game. because whats the point of winning of top stats is all that matters?

===

of course, you are welcome to play a terrible build, DD Condi & focus on team stats.
but as you can see, thats going to keep you exactly where you are now.

choovanski.5462:

what a joke. me & my pals have decayed down to the bottom of bronze multiple times. climbing out is miserably easy.

just play like a baller & rock peoples socks off.

being rewarded for high team stat is innane tho. if you climbed this way i would literally just run around the map killing players. ive had multiple games with well over 20kills so i’d just make max kills my goal every game. because whats the point of winning of top stats is all that matters?

===

of course, you are welcome to play a terrible build, DD Condi & focus on team stats.
but as you can see, thats going to keep you exactly where you are now.

Evidently, you didn’t read a word of my post. I never claimed that Top Stats should make wins pointless. I said that they’d be a good buff to increase your rating or provide a safety net for any kind of drop down.

suffish.4150:

The thing is, if you are stuck in bronze 1 and can’t get out, then you are not a good player at all, or even average. I am not being mean or anything but I am just stating the facts. Insisting that you are better than your team will get you nowhere, in bronze or in legendary. This isn’t a problem though, because if you really focus on trying to improve, you can become a good player pretty quickly. In maybe 1000 games on your class you can go from useless to pretty good if you focus on improving from mistakes.

First of all, you need to run the meta build. They are meta for a reason- they are far better than any alternatives. If you think you do better with another build, that is fine but you shouldn’t be running it because when you reach a point where you are very good, you will be less effective than people of equal skill.

As others have said, as a thief you need to decap as much as you can and make sure you get kills. You can’t teamfight, so focus on the side caps and smaller fights. You need to rotate well to carry a game and know where to be all the time. Holding a 1v2 is helpful but it is not your job as a thief, so focus on trying to finish off as many kills as you can.

Most importantly of all, DO NOT DIE. This is the most important thing for any player in any division. If you think you could die, then disengage. You are only harming your team if you die. On thief you have many tools to disengage so never overcommit to a fight and leave when you get pressured. Dying on point in a 1v2 is much, much worse than disengaging, even if it means you hold the cap for another 15 seconds.

I hope this helped.

Okay, so I’ve played 6 games with this advice… most of it being what I already know. I changed back to the meta. I won the first 3 games, but I noticed a clear step-up in team competence as my skill rating increased to about 822… and then I lost the next 3 which put me back down on 795, even tho I was following the advice to the letter in every game, making smart decisions to avoid deaths etc etc, but my teams were beyond terrible. I kept seeing the same trends, people overloading points, duelling off-point… and I can’t control that. It’s just becoming a very painful grind atm…

Twyn.7320:

choovanski.5462:

what a joke. me & my pals have decayed down to the bottom of bronze multiple times. climbing out is miserably easy.

just play like a baller & rock peoples socks off.

being rewarded for high team stat is innane tho. if you climbed this way i would literally just run around the map killing players. ive had multiple games with well over 20kills so i’d just make max kills my goal every game. because whats the point of winning of top stats is all that matters?

===

of course, you are welcome to play a terrible build, DD Condi & focus on team stats.
but as you can see, thats going to keep you exactly where you are now.

Evidently, you didn’t read a word of my post. I never claimed that Top Stats should make wins pointless. I said that they’d be a good buff to increase your rating or provide a safety net for any kind of drop down.

ah, perhaps i was being somewhat facetious. you do say that wins are not a measure of skill, & do think it’s important to get top stats.

newsflash, top stats when you lose are nothing to be proud of. it doesn’t matter if you got top damage if you lost. because obviously your high damage wasn’t very helpful to the team, because well… you lost.

thats the point im making. top stats when you lose should not be rewarded, as getting a high stat & losing is not indicative of good gameplay.

==

regardless, thief is not a good class to carry on. sure, it can be done if you are very good, but it’s still a poor choice.
this is because it is bad in teamfights. thief uses mobility to decap & try & secure a rotational advantage. this is good if your team is competent & can win fights without you. sadly this is often not the case. playing something that can carry fights & ensure teamfight wins is extremely valuable, & i would argue the best way to carry. necro + ele duo queue is perhaps one of the best carry queues you can do.

currently it looks like your winrate is around 50/50 which seems to indicate you’re placed appropriately skill wise. sure, it seems hard to win because “my team is bad & they lose fights”. so i’d suggest being in those fights, often at mid & making sure you win them. a teamwipe in the opening midfight is a great way to snowball & gain advantage. queueing with a duo comp can help a ton too, so that might be something you want to think about.

This was a really interesting thread to read being as this was my first pvp season (played enough to get to dolyak before seasons began) and I am currently languishing at around 750 points, having clawed my way up from a low point of 520 (I dropped pretty quickly from my placement score of 680 before I realised I really couldn’t play mesmer in pvp). This I realise puts me firmly in the “learning to play” camp, but I would also agree with the OP that success in a game does seem to be very much decided by the luck of the draw with your team mates. Ah well. I’ll plug on.

Any pointers for a tweaked boonstrip necro that might help me win a few more matches would be appreciated

Maladiktion.1498:

Any pointers for a tweaked boonstrip necro that might help me win a few more matches would be appreciated

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/My-PvP-builds/first#post6477631

Top 3 builds are Necro builds, hope it helps. The top one is probably up your alley, focuses on boon corruption, 2900 power and 1700 condi. High spike damage.

NOTHING has changed OP, except you guessed it, queue sizes. With mixed queues, THIS is what you’re going to get.

Twyn.7320:

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

I’m not saying I deserve to be in gold or something like that, I just want to at least climb up a single tier without being dragged down by unlucky matchmaking. Carrying a game at my level isn’t possible, I’m not a pro PvPer, I have enough experience to direct a team but not solo everything. The problem is: I can’t climb out of my tier because of two things…

1) Wins and losses are not a measure of personal skill.
1b) The way to counter this would be to add Top Stats to your rating, like +5 for every Top Stat that you earn, to reduce the amount of rating that you lose, or increase it if you win by a large margin.

2) Bronze Tier 1 is too large to climb. Trying to gain 850 rating is very difficult, due to the luck required to gain competent teams every single match.
2b) Obvs, the way to counter this is to reduce the amount of rating required to achieve Bronze Tier 2. I’ve played all of my matches in Bronze Tier 1, I haven’t escaped it, even after a long run of consecutive wins.

It feels as if nothing’s really changed in the PvP system apart from the queue sizes. Of course, this was a test run of the system, but I feel like these tiny changes would make a world of difference for the average player.

Anyway, feel free to tell me to ‘learn to play’ or ‘git gud’, but this is just my infuriating experience of Season 5. o/

EDIT: Additional Information – I’m getting about 2-3 Top Stats per game on average! ;D

Hi,
No 1 – Your 1st 10 placement matches ended u in bronze which is a bummer
No 2 – 58 matches is not enuf to climb from bronze to Gold imo

Play at least 200 matches and see where u end up. More a less that is where u belong.

Just my 2 cents

Bronze is kitten tier. Once you leave bronze you shouldn’t be able to fall back into it. Most games are a good resemblance of an unranked brawl, random, chaotic and not structured at all. Winning said matches is determined by luck, not by skill.

sephiroth.4217:

Maladiktion.1498:

Any pointers for a tweaked boonstrip necro that might help me win a few more matches would be appreciated

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/My-PvP-builds/first#post6477631

Top 3 builds are Necro builds, hope it helps. The top one is probably up your alley, focuses on boon corruption, 2900 power and 1700 condi. High spike damage.

Thanks for the links to the builds. I was more interested in general tips on what I should be doing in each game (other than the really general view of capping points, defending them, and helping out on team fights where possible). I’ve listened to team chat when appropriate, watched some videos, and read up on the qqmore site. The videos I’ve not found very helpful as it’s just listening to peoples “differing” taste in music whilst not understanding what I’m really seeing. I guess I would just like a some more guides. Especially on how to survive bronze tier without losing my will to live

Something important to understand is that the matchmaking system isn’t conspiring to make you lose. There’s no dude at Anet sitting in the server room chuckling to himself about always giving you the worst players in the current selection pool. You’re complaining about how your team is bad? Guess what, so is the other team. In any given game, one team will be better or worse (obviously), but as you play more games this ends up averaging out to a consistent level.

Over time, the only changing factor in the games you play is actually you. The skill level of the other 4 players on your team is, on average, equal to the skill level of the 5 players on the other team. You hold the opportunity to make that overall skill level change. The fact that you’re sitting at a roughly 50% winrate tells me that you’re actually precisely where you should be, playing with others that are almost perfectly matched with you.

Having played over 500 games this season I can tell you for a fact that games do not in any way, shape or form become consistent. Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

Sooloo.1364:

Having played over 500 games this season I can tell you for a fact that games do not in any way, shape or form become consistent. Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

Your last sentence is the precise point I’m trying to make. I’m not saying that each individual game will become even. I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate. If, however, you are personally better than the people around you, you will swing some games and cause that 50% rate to increase.

chances are if youre in bronze you don’t have the “skill” required to climb tiers. just chance tho everyone is an exception.

Fay.2357:

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so 50% blowout match win rate > 50% close match lose rate?

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so 50% blowout match win rate > 50% close match lose rate?

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Changes to the matchmaking system has made blowout matches more or less frequent. Evan has said this is unintended and that his aim is to minimise blowouts with the mm algorithm. They will always exist but the rate of blowouts is absolutely affected by matchmaking.

Thief is one of those classes that can easily become useless if you are not concentrated enough. And it’s really easy to go downhill with it.

I placed gold 1 at the beginning of the season and got to the bottom of silver 2 three or four times. I got back to gold using a custom mesmer build with AOE damages. The ability to carry with high dps and aoe in low leagues is just better than playing thief.

That said you clearly are not a regular pvper…I would say average pvpers are at least regulars. I asked a while ago how much games does it takes for players to reach their minimal deviation ( equivalent to accurate rating ), Evan answered that it was around 43 games ( -/+ 10 ).

I’m gold 2 and I played 213 games so far with a win rate above 50%…I thought I would be playing at least 50 more but I had exams. I suppose that’s a profile that fits average a bit more than yours.

You should play at least play 100 games and see if there is a difference during the next season…Your current level of dedication to pvp belongs indeed to bronze level.

I don’t know what is the tone of my post, but it’s not supposed to be offensive in any way. Except maybe that your screenshot taken in AB and not HoTM makes you even less of a regular pvper

1) The screenie’s from Divinity’s Reach :P
2) I had a look at the rest of my friends list, who are all pretty active PvPers, who I’d deem ‘the average player’… and 50% (40/80) are in any tier of bronze, most of which have played 100 games. I’ve finally played my 100 games, and I’m in bronze tier 2 after a run of abysmal teams preventing me from reaching tier 3, and yes, I duo queued with a friend who said the same thing across every game.
3) I don’t exactly ‘lose concentration’ with Thief. I just get shouted at for making logical decisions… like fleeing a 3v2 if my ally’s downed to go and cap a different point which actually benefits the team. I’m just struggling to find the part where I’m the issue tbh in my games. I’m sure I’d be killed instantly in any other division, but in bronze… gawd some players are dumb.

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Decay only affects leaderboard positioning, it is not used for matchmaking, so you’re totally wrong there. If your skill rating is low, it means you’re bad. That’s literally what a skill rating is. It’s… a rating… of your skill.

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Decay only affects leaderboard positioning, it is not used for matchmaking, so you’re totally wrong there. If your skill rating is low, it means you’re bad. That’s literally what a skill rating is. It’s… a rating… of your skill.

Which depends only on wins and losses… how is that a logical way to measure -personal- skill? You will have bad teams in any division between Bronze and Gold, so if 4 players are brain-dead, and you’re actually trying to do something, does that make you a bad player?

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Decay only affects leaderboard positioning, it is not used for matchmaking, so you’re totally wrong there. If your skill rating is low, it means you’re bad. That’s literally what a skill rating is. It’s… a rating… of your skill.

Which depends only on wins and losses… how is that a logical way to measure -personal- skill? You will have bad teams in any division between Bronze and Gold, so if 4 players are brain-dead, and you’re actually trying to do something, does that make you a bad player?

I’ll try to explain it again, though I doubt it’ll help.

Here’s how it works. Matchmaking aims to put you in games that will, according to your current skill rating, result in wins 50% of the time. However, if your actual skill is higher than what the system thinks it is, then what will happen is that you’ll sometimes win games that the system thought you would lose. When this happens, your skill rating will increase as the system responds to this unexpected event. This isn’t to say that you’ll win every game, but some matches will be close enough that your higher than expected skill will cause a swing from a loss to a win.

In your case, you have very close to a 50% winrate. This means that you have not caused any matches to unexpectedly swing from a loss to a win. This means that the system is accurate in its assessment of your skill.