Guild Wars 2

abc.5790:

I disagree

That’s the problem with people these days. If you cant kill something, then it must be nerfed.

Sadly turret engies where punished to the point of uselessness because people complained instead of counter.

How could you have countered turret engies?

1. Cele rifle 2kit engie
2. staff ele
3. shatter Mesmer
4. condi Mesmer
6. trap ranger
7. power wells necro
8. MM necro

I guess the OP of this thread wants burn builds to suffer the same fate as the turret engie….which clearly had powerful counters but people were too lazy to learn how to apply them.

And it worked! anet awarded complainers instead of making them adapt. anet punished turreteers coz……

Lets just say that while I didn’t play turret, I didn’t like how it got nerfed and I’ll do everything I can to prevent burn builds from the same fate

I don’t quite agree. Turrets didn’t really have a weakness since the engineer, even though couldn’t cleanse conditions, didn’t have a problem with them since the turrets were immune to them (and critical hits) while dishing out 4k rockets and 2k rifles and 3k thumpers. The only one in your list I agree with is well necro and staff eles, but these builds were squishy. (Cele engi was on par, mms minons died faster, trap rangers couldn’t hurt the turrets and thumper turret could 1 shot every clone faster then you could spawb then while the rocket cut the mesmers health by 1/4. Power ranger would also count as a counter)

Also, no build should require a hard counter to be dealt with. That’s why d/d eles got nerfed, since you needed a cele necro to deal with them.

I don’t see burn builds in the same tier as turrets though since you don’t just stand there while your AI does all the work and be as tanky as possible. It also lacks the cc and immobs turrets did. Any necro worth his salt could reflect the burns back on the guard as well, which I’ve seen people mention. Could burn use a nerf though? For sure. Its pretty much mandatory for a condi build to bring burn right now since its just that much stronger.

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

Moa engie after destroying rocket

Staff ele fire 5

Ranger pet agro while attacking ranged

Engie cele IP nades 1500 range

There were more but these are the ones where I ended up having full HP after the encounter.

edit: Not certain if these are soft or hard counters but I always won. I can’t believe people are still haunted by turrets. Don’t worry, burns are easier to counter.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

You know I actually decided to go test how they do the combo and it’s super easy to get 7 stacks instantly. Use Zealot’s and start the cast for Fire, use Judge’s about half way through the fast cast and swap weapons, 7 stacks of burning for the 1 justice proc and 3 from point blank torch and 3 from Judge’s with 1 poison and 3 bleed stacks. Can kill the Target golems with just that.

“Burn builds are like turret engis”

yes, exactly. the more bads complain, the harder and sooner it will get nerfed into uselessness. exactly like turret engies, OP makes a crucial point.

I don’t remember the last time I actually died to a burn guard in the top mmr bracket, and here we arguably fight the best ones (maybe 2 or 3 names that come to mind).

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

You know I actually decided to go test how they do the combo and it’s super easy to get 7 stacks instantly. Use Zealot’s and start the cast for Fire, use Judge’s about half way through the fast cast and swap weapons, 7 stacks of burning for the 1 justice proc and 3 from point blank torch and 3 from Judge’s with 1 poison and 3 bleed stacks. Can kill the Target golems with just that.

So, not instant at all, in other words. Fast, sure, but against a player, they can just cleanse and now you’re down a stunbreak/gap closer, weapon swap is on cooldown (so no Scepter/Torch), and, since you’re a burn guardian, you’re lacking the lockdown to properly land a Whirling Wrath or prevent Purging Flames from being dodged. Or you have no stunbreak left, which can also be heavily exploited.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

You know I actually decided to go test how they do the combo and it’s super easy to get 7 stacks instantly. Use Zealot’s and start the cast for Fire, use Judge’s about half way through the fast cast and swap weapons, 7 stacks of burning for the 1 justice proc and 3 from point blank torch and 3 from Judge’s with 1 poison and 3 bleed stacks. Can kill the Target golems with just that.

So, not instant at all, in other words. Fast, sure, but against a player, they can just cleanse and now you’re down a stunbreak/gap closer, weapon swap is on cooldown (so no Scepter/Torch), and, since you’re a burn guardian, you’re lacking the lockdown to properly land a Whirling Wrath or prevent Purging Flames from being dodged. Or you have no stunbreak left, which can also be heavily exploited.

So they swap to greatsword use Symbol of Wrath and now you got vulnerability for 4 cleanse, if you remove the burn fight continues, if you don’t you die quickly.

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

That’s your problem. You’re operating on what YOU think is right when the reality is completely different. You spoke about low MMRs earlier and why a <2s burst from my warrior sounded improbable vs decent players, but then you talk about people taking damage from your symbols? You could have 30k HP and still not have enough, especially during this meta (see necro).

SlayerSixx.5763:

That’s your problem. You’re operating on what YOU think is right when the reality is completely different. You spoke about low MMRs earlier and why a <2s burst from my warrior sounded improbable vs decent players, but then you talk about people taking damage from your symbols? You could have 30k HP and still not have enough, especially during this meta (see necro).

Lol you only need one tick to disrupt cleanses and it has 1/4 second cast time. Burn Guardian is a burst build, won’t work vs premades so building it around a less than 20% health increase if not poisoned sustain is the wrong move for random vs random games.

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

^careful, you’re about to start with the biggest lover of the build you hate.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

To the OP: What are Rangers supposed to run then? Our direct damage is so pitiful we’d be hopeless without fire damage. Even with fire damage I do 3 times as much damage on my Mesmer without even breaking a sweat. Ranger has the weakest direct damage imaginable. Just try running one and see if you break 250,000 in a match. Good luck!

Archon.6480:

To the OP: What are Rangers supposed to run then? Our direct damage is so pitiful we’d be hopeless without fire damage. Even with fire damage I do 3 times as much damage on my Mesmer without even breaking a sweat. Ranger has the weakest direct damage imaginable. Just try running one and see if you break 250,000 in a match. Good luck!

Healer, ANet is even promoting it.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

You sure it’s not you with the horrible understanding of PvP. I win most of my matches still so I’m pretty sure I know how to PvP.

At least burn doesn’t use AI.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

You sure it’s not you with the horrible understanding of PvP. I win most of my matches still so I’m pretty sure I know how to PvP.

Yes, I’m sure.

And come back to me when you played more than 89 matches in the current PvP meta. Let’s see what win ratio will be then.

I mean I also win 70% of all my matches on my alt account with less than 100 matches played on it. That doesn’t mean jack. It just means my MMR on that account is still low and this I’m still grouped up with the newbies and bad players. Same thing is true for you.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

tfw your bunker looses a 1v1 with burn guard. for shame

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

That’s on my main account with 1000+ matches played on it.

I’ll take a screenshot of my alt account the next time I log in so you can see it.

Also, I improved your build for you and made it up to date so it will be useful again in the current meta. With this you’ll be absolutely demolishing burn guards: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV6YnMJCVNhNNBePB8PhDYiynGnxIy7hg4H0JQAsbA-TZBHABAcRASqMQZPAAR2fQ4jAAA

You’re welcome.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

That’s on my main account with 1000+ matches played on it.

I’ll take a screenshot of my alt account the next time I log in so you can see it.

Also, I improved your build for you and made it up to date so it will be useful again in the current meta. With this you’ll be absolutely demolishing burn guards: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV6YnMJCVNhNNBePB8PhDYiynGnxIy7hg4H0JQAsbA-TZBHABAcRASqMQZPAAR2fQ4jAAA

You’re welcome.

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth. Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better. No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share. Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment. Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

glaphen.5230:

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth.

Says who?

glaphen.5230:

Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better.

Skelk venom gives you more healing with 0 healing power than Withdraw does with a Clerics amulet.

Also you’re being selfish and not realizing PvP is a team effort. Skelk Venom with Venomous Aura is incredibly good and supportive to the team, which is part of the job of the bunker: supporting the team.

Besides, in this condi-heavy meta, the more healing, the better (unless you have to sacrifice something really good for it, which Withdrawal isn’t).

glaphen.5230:

No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share.

With the improved build I linked you, you’’ll totally stand a chance against burn guards. You’ll kill them with ease.

glaphen.5230:

Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment.

It helps keeping the conditions off you and increasing your own condi pressure. Feel free to swap out the Intelligence sigil for something else if you feel you don’t need it.

glaphen.5230:

Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

Feel free to pick Spider Venom over Ice Drake Venom if you think it’s better. To me both are equally good. I like Ice Drake because it screws with the mobility and rotations of your opponents, which to me is more useful than another poison apply.

Skale Venom is definitely a must though. The Krait runes only give you 1 stack of torment when you use your Basilisk Venom and the sigil gives only 1 stack too. That alone simply isn’t enough.

Skale Venom doesn’t just give torment, it also gives vulnerability. It’s pretty much the best venom the thief has if you ask me.

But honestly, this build that I just linked will work fine with Spider + Ice too if that’s what you wanna roll with.

Seriously, try this build I linked out, pick the venoms you prefer, make sure you DEFINITELY bring Skelk and Basilisk venom, and you’ll see how much better you’ll do against the current condi-meta.

I mean, if you can have a 61% win ratio with a useless Clerics thief build, imagine how much you’ll win with an actual proper and useful build!

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth.

Says who?

glaphen.5230:

Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better.

Skelk venom gives you more healing with 0 healing power than Withdraw does with a Clerics amulet.

Also you’re being selfish and not realizing PvP is a team effort. Skelk Venom with Venomous Aura is incredibly good and supportive to the team, which is part of the job of the bunker: supporting the thief.

Besides, in this condi-heavy meta, the more healing, the better (unless you have to sacrifice something really good for it, which Withdrawal isn’t).

glaphen.5230:

No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share.

With the improved build I linked you, you’’ll totally stand a chance against burn guards. You’ll kill them with ease.

glaphen.5230:

Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment.

It helps keeping the conditions off you and increasing your own condi pressure. Feel free to swap out the Intelligence sigil for something else if you feel you don’t need it.

glaphen.5230:

Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

Feel free to pick Spider Venom over Ice Drake Venom if you think it’s better. To me both are equally good. I like Ice Drake because it screws with the mobility and rotations of your opponents, which to me is more useful than another poison apply.

Skale Venom is definitely a must though. The Krait runes only give you 1 stack of torment when you use your Basilisk Venom and the sigil gives only 1 stack too. That alone simply isn’t enough.

Skale Venom doesn’t just give torment, it also gives vulnerability. It’s pretty much the best venom the thief has if you ask me.

But honestly, this build that I just linked will work fine with Spider + Ice too if that’s what you wanna roll with.

Seriously, try this build I linked out, pick the venoms you prefer, make sure you DEFINITELY bring Skelk and Basilisk venom, and you’ll see how much better you’ll do against the current condi-meta.

I mean, if you can have a 61% win ratio with a useless Clerics thief build, imagine how much you’ll win with an actual proper and useful build!

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago. Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you. Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them, run away from them with Shadow Refuge sure, kill them without allies to put the venom on, no, maybe if you were using D/D unicorn with Settler but that would be useless against non melee. You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons. 5+hits=kittens now.

glaphen.5230:

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago.

Again, PvP is a team effort. You’re likely not the only person on the point (if you are, you’re doing it wrong).

Shadow Refuge is super useful. The single most useful skill in the thief’s kitten nal. Any thief without it is deliberately gimping himself and the team.

Shadow Refuge can be used to safely res allies, it can be used to secure stomps from either yourself or your allies and it can be used as a last-resort escape mechanism when you and your team are getting overpowered.

Escape and live to try another day is better than dying.

glaphen.5230:

Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you.

Running Skelk instead of Withdraw won’t get you killed, not with this build, unless you’re really really bad.

It will definitely keep you and your team alive. Not only is it a better heal than Withdraw (for this build), it also does damage to the opponents, something Withdraw doesn’t do.

If you want to play a venom share thief, Skelk is the way to go.

glaphen.5230:

Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them,

Maybe YOU won’t stand a chance against them, but any competent player will. The weakness of a burn guard is heavy condi pressure. This build provides that. Burn guards should pose no treat to you on this build if you’re any good.

glaphen.5230:

You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons.

No, you severely overestimate them. Thieves Guild is garbage. Basilisk Venom is so much more useful. It screws with your enemies’ rotations, locks enemies down, it can prevent stomps, it can prevent runaways, it steals health and heals you (and allies) and it gives you might.

What does Thieves Guild give you in comparison? Two crappy A.I. companions with mediocre health and terrible DPS on a crappy 180 sec cooldown.

We all know the A.I. in this game is garbage. Good players who know how to make proper use of Basilisk Venom will always take Basilisk Venom over Thieves Guild.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago.

Again, PvP is a team effort. You’re likely not the only person on the point (if you are, you’re doing it wrong).

Shadow Refuge is super useful. The single most useful skill in the thief kitten nal. Any thief without it is deliberately gimping himself and the team.

Shadow Refuge can be used to safely res allies, it can be used to secure stomps from either yourself or your allies and it can be used as a last-resort escape mechanism when you and your team are getting overpowered.

Escape and live to try another day is better than dying.

glaphen.5230:

Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you.

Running Skelk instead of Withdraw won’t get you killed, not with this build, unless you’re really really bad.

It will definitely keep you and your team alive. Not only is it a better heal than Withdraw (for this build), it also does damage to the opponents, something Withdraw doesn’t do.

If you want to play a venom share thief, Skelk is the way to go.

glaphen.5230:

Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them,

Maybe YOU won’t stand a chance against them, but any competent player will. The weakness of a burn guard is heavy condi pressure. This build provides that. Burn guards should pose no treat to you on this build if you’re any good.

glaphen.5230:

You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons.

No, you severely overestimate them. Thieves Guild is garbage. Basilisk Venom is so much more useful. It screws with your enemies’ rotations, locks enemies down, it can prevent stomps, it can prevent runaways, it steals health and heals you (and allies) and it gives you might.

What does Thieves Guild give you in comparison? Two crappy A.I. companions with mediocre health and terrible DPS. We all know the A.I. in this game is garbage. Good player who know how to make proper use of Basilisk Venom will always take Basilisk Venom over Thieves Guild.

So many assumptions without numbers to back them up at least. So this build has 460 HPS compared to my 1.2k. It has .75 evades per 10 seconds compared to my 4 unless you use all your initiative on dodging on a condition build and then it has 2. It does 5745 armor ignoring leech damage compared to my 10341 if I don’t have prep time. It does around 4,100 torment damage and 2025 confusion plus 677 per skill for 5 seconds while my Poison does 3618 without prep time. It’s got 10 swiftness per 26 compared to my 4.75 per 5 if not weaknessed. Condition removal wise it has 6 removed if you sit in the Shadow Refuge for 20 seconds, compared to my 1 per 25 and burning/poison/bleeding per 20. It has no stun break while I have 1 per 30 automatically with an endurance recharge. It has 2 seconds worth of basilisk venom, 3 seconds of chill and 2 second of immobilize at 50% while I have 12 seconds worth of immobilize without prep time. This is with Improvisation version and not better Trickery version and my build has higher chance to reset something.

EDIT: also messed up the math. 13788 armor ignoring leech and 4824 poison damage.

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

mistsim.2748:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

Yeah and high level premade vs premade makes up like 1% of all PvP games and the rest are screwed over by not having their personal support shout bunker butt slave.

glaphen.5230:

mistsim.2748:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

Yeah and high level premade vs premade makes up like 1% of all PvP games and the rest are screwed over by not having their personal support shout bunker butt slave.

no wonder you dont have cool guys like me clearing your condis.

glaphen.5230:

mistsim.2748:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

Yeah and high level premade vs premade makes up like 1% of all PvP games and the rest are screwed over by not having their personal support shout bunker butt slave.

I play Shoutbow Warrior and Bunker Guardian all the time, even when I queue solo, unless someone else in my team already runs shoutbow/bunker.

But if I ever get thrown in the same team as you, I’ll deliberately switch to a non-supportive class so you can rage some more about how OP burning and burn guards are.

burn guards kill you just because youre letting them.

Meh, burn guards are a 1 trick pony and easy to deal with. Will all the passive plague sig necros running around, condi engi is suicide and burn on ele has been toned.

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

Since cele ele was nerfed all I see are burn guards with RoF 2.0….

Just about all my toons pack generosity sigils because of this, even my rabid necro.

IsilZha.3608:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

i had a great moment with a burn guard on foefire mid. i was on my warrior & the burn guard threw down his PF. i just backed away from it facing him, & he just stood there trying to combo the field unsuccessfully with sceptre. after the duration finished he looked pretty sad. 100% waste of a cd if no one walks into it.

choovanski.5462:

IsilZha.3608:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

i had a great moment with a burn guard on foefire mid. i was on my warrior & the burn guard threw down his PF. i just backed away from it facing him, & he just stood there trying to combo the field unsuccessfully with sceptre. after the duration finished he looked pretty sad. 100% waste of a cd if no one walks into it.

Dumb burn Guardian using scepter instead of greatsword and sword/torch.

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

IsilZha.3608:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

i had a great moment with a burn guard on foefire mid. i was on my warrior & the burn guard threw down his PF. i just backed away from it facing him, & he just stood there trying to combo the field unsuccessfully with sceptre. after the duration finished he looked pretty sad. 100% waste of a cd if no one walks into it.

Dumb burn Guardian using scepter instead of greatsword and sword/torch.

you can run sceptre instead of main hand sword, but dropping GS is a foolish move i agree. it’s synergy with PF & VoJ is too good to give up.

choovanski.5462:

IsilZha.3608:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

i had a great moment with a burn guard on foefire mid. i was on my warrior & the burn guard threw down his PF. i just backed away from it facing him, & he just stood there trying to combo the field unsuccessfully with sceptre. after the duration finished he looked pretty sad. 100% waste of a cd if no one walks into it.

Did… did he not realize he can cast it directly on top of you to apply at least one hit for 3 stacks? O.o