Guild Wars 2

Please for the love of god put a cap on the amount of dmg per sec you can take from condi… just like gw1. torment and confusion can go over a bit if moving or attacking… but other than that the condi pressure is just stupid. condi is just mindless spam and the payoff is absurd. Thanks

I don’t think there needs to be a hard cap on condi damage. But I do believe the condi damage stat needs to be removed. If they give each condi a fixed value that cannot be altered in any way shape or form then they can increase the presence of it on condi specialized traits and weapons and close to remove the direct damage present on those weapons in order to allow for a set of DoT builds to exist but not be able to do massive spike damage through condi. Sure they’d be able to be massively tanky but if they don’t do enough damage to force you out before you put damage into them then it doesn’t really matter if they are hard to kill.

I love when people QQ condis… especially when they call it spam. I used to play only condi because that’s my preferred playstyle, but honestly, after playing power revenant, there’s nothing OP about condition damage being the way it is. Dealing instant 5k+ with hammer from afar with 2k+ auto attacks is the same deal as a condi but in a different package. With condi, you have to wait 5 hours whereas with power you instantly deal the damage.

Or when people call it “spam”. Just learn to play already. I fought a streamer recently who was spamming headshot at me as I was trying to auto attack and he got lots of “interrupt” and cried how all I’m doing is spamming skills when in fact I was just trying to auto attack. Yes, I was a condi Necro. So for some reason any skill I use is automatically spamming? Wtf? I’m doing as much “spamming” with a power class as I am with a condi class. Press 1 button = damage in both cases except for some reason people get really annoyed when their health drains over time.

Its just current flavor and its so popular bc is damages also wile you evade or block

Getting hit by a an attack that damages 2k+ still does 2k damage no matter how much you evade or block after it.

Except while there is negation for power via blocks, evades, invuln, blind, protection, toughness, vitality, etc. There is no boon or negation to condi damage. That’s why people get upset by it is because if it’s on them (and it’s easy to stack past people’s condi clear limit) there’s nothing they can do to prevent the damage. At least that’s what I understand to be most people’s reason for disliking condi. I personally have no issue with the DoT type build or the condi playstyle but I do see where people’s arguments lie.

And there is a serious point to consider: Why are some condi builds able to output over 7k damage a second and easily maintain that level of damage? If the design of the playstyle is meant to be DoT then let it be that. The issue you are running into right now with conditions in this game is that they are so prevalent and easily buffed through the condi damage stat that this damage is easy to achieve and then you’re looking at a build which can load people with damage and take them down in 3 or 4 seconds without having to be actively engaged in the fight. The whole idea of a sustained damage build is to have fights last a long time so you’re damage ticks and eventually drains your opponent entirely. Not spiking them down with conditions that go through every defensive tool in the game. In order to truly balance condi it needs to be the defined DoT style for players who prefer that, not an alternative tankier spike build.

Again I have no issue with the DoT playstyle, just have issues with the way it’s been implemented.

Ario.8964:

Except while there is negation for power via blocks, evades, invuln, blind, protection, toughness, vitality, etc. There is no boon or negation to condi damage. That’s why people get upset by it is because if it’s on them (and it’s easy to stack past people’s condi clear limit) there’s nothing they can do to prevent the damage. At least that’s what I understand to be most people’s reason for disliking condi. I personally have no issue with the DoT type build or the condi playstyle but I do see where people’s arguments lie.

Nothing can be more wrong than this statement. Blocks, evades, invuln and blinds do counter condi damage the same way they counter power damage. Condi don’t just magically happen on you, you need to get hit by an attack to get them. And this attack can be countered the exact same way any attack does.

On top of that, resistance is a boon that completely negates condi damage. Finally, you can cleanse condi.

So overall, there are much more negation to condi damage than power damage. And THAT is actually the problem. Conditions cannot be balanced because there are too many ways to negate them. Power damage is usually mitigated (toughness/protection) while condi is simply negated (resistance, cleanse). So to be balanced with power considering how much they are negated, condi have to be stronger than power. Hence the answer to your second part.

Just run some cleanses, you babies.
Running a build with no condi clear is like running in with no armor and expecting not to get wrecked.

reikken.4961:

Just run some cleanses, you babies.
Running a build with no condi clear is like running in with no armor and expecting not to get wrecked.

How many cleanses do you expect people to run. I have 1 on evade, sword #2 return, shadow return, sig of agility. And sometimes that is still not enough.

Currently reapers are strong and mesmers can also realy hurt with condies.
But yesterday again i did see what a revenenat can do… Niffel due to some reason only the revenant an i (hybrid ele) reached mid. Usually bad but we downed one per 5 seconds. The damage was extreme. This 2:3 was over in about 20 seconds and it was power damage. Power damage especially in focus fire is superior unless you shoot into invuls or reflects …
And yes bring a strategy against condies or live that you might die on it. Its good that we don´t have only power viable (at least in a few classes). This brings diversity.

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

+1

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Power needs Precision and ferocity.
Conditions need duration and expertise.

Power/precision/crit damage values are increased with might and fury and ferocity.

Condition values are increased with might to reach a hard ceiling of damage and stacks. Their values don’t increase with precision or fury or ferocity.

All you have successfully proven is that conditions are still weak and need to be buffed so their values also increase with fury or any other value metric.

No one got a critical hit condition damage for 7k. No condition user ever hit for 3.5k on a critical auto attack.

No one ever had their physical damage over written by someone else’s weak physical damage.

Thanks for highlighting conditions need a buff.

Well done. Good argument.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Meanwhile power based builds still have more sustain/survivability than condi builds (aka engi-rev vs mesm-nec) lmao

The problem now is that both conditions and condition cleanses are too spammable.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Power needs Precision and ferocity.
Conditions need duration and expertise.

Power/precision/crit damage values are increased with might and fury and ferocity.

Condition values are increased with might to reach a hard ceiling of damage and stacks. Their values don’t increase with precision or fury or ferocity.

All you have successfully proven is that conditions are still weak and need to be buffed so their values also increase with fury or any other value metric.

No one got a critical hit condition damage for 7k. No condition user ever hit for 3.5k on a critical auto attack.

No one ever had their physical damage over written by someone else’s weak physical damage.

Thanks for highlighting conditions need a buff.

Well done. Good argument.

If they don’t need precision and ferocity, then they need less stats XD XD.
And no you don’t need expertise, cuz actualy skills are so bad balanced that they already give an insane amount of seconds of condi, that’s why your argument about “they need to be stack in order to do dmg” totaly crash, because is not hard to reach 25 stack of poison if every time you hit with skills/random aoe you put 10 seconds of 5 stack of poison!!!
Also you don’t need expertise, since condi dmg is bursty! you are not gonna do a DoT, you are gonna do a burst!!! no need expertise for a burst!!!

We can argue all you want, condi players will never admit how easy and braindead their gameplay is compared to power dps builds, men this is a noobfriendly game, thats why we have condi so OP, to help noobs.

And to answer the post aboves, i don’t need any toghness to counter a power dps if i am power dps too, instead i cant counter a condi player without condi cleanser (wich are never high enough, and unbalanced between classes) even if i am a power dps, because the condi player will be tanky as hell while still beeing able to do the dmg.

Also the retalation/weakness/protection/dmg reduction argument is so so obvious that it’s useless repeating it for thousand times, if condi players and Anet balance team don’t get it at the first sight, then we cant avoid their blindness.

Exciton.8942:

The problem now is that both conditions and condition cleanses are too spammable.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

The only post with sense I have seen today! Amen.

That is the simple fact. Classes that are good with power like Revs die in seconds under pressure. The substitute survivability for their damage and if the enemy team has healing and support then power is almost ineffective.

Condi on the other hand can run builds that can tank 3 people at the same time whilst dealing out condis that can start to stack up and rip down the opponent. All whilst having a load of CC and surivability. Have you ever seen a Rev, Thief or DH do anything in a 2 or 3 vs 1 situation? I have watched good Engi’s, Ele’s and Necros fight 2 or 3 vs 1 on them and win.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Power needs Precision and ferocity.
Conditions need duration and expertise.

Power/precision/crit damage values are increased with might and fury and ferocity.

Condition values are increased with might to reach a hard ceiling of damage and stacks. Their values don’t increase with precision or fury or ferocity.

All you have successfully proven is that conditions are still weak and need to be buffed so their values also increase with fury or any other value metric.

No one got a critical hit condition damage for 7k. No condition user ever hit for 3.5k on a critical auto attack.

No one ever had their physical damage over written by someone else’s weak physical damage.

Thanks for highlighting conditions need a buff.

Well done. Good argument.

What’s this nonsense you are posting? Check the meta builds. None of their amulets stack duration and expertise. They put mercenary which is condi damage, power (to do good damage with the skills not only through the condis) and VITALITY AND TOUGHNESS

Get it?

And I see you are complaining about 7k power crits. Well, I’ll raise you with 22k chill damage after prolonged fight against a reaper. 22k … chill, there were others too. Don’t ask me how i healed through all this. If my thief could dish out 22k damage the forum would be on fire by complaining. Oh but wait, it was on fire, almost one year ago. And now the thief is pretty much useless and outclasses by you-name-it. It requires too much effort from the thief and from the thief’s teammates to make it work. There are far better braindead options out there. And most of them just so happen to spread conditions in order to win

Oh the warrior is broken AF? Just go condi … condi seems to work for everyone these days. All you need is good team support and let those condis run wild. <3

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Power needs Precision and ferocity.
Conditions need duration and expertise.

I just stopped here.

Expertise IS +condition duration, so even if someone would want to go for higher duration, he just needs to increase 2 stats, condi dmg and expertise, whereas a power dmg based build will need to increase power + precision + ferocity.

Moreover, as someone else already pointed out, the actual condition inflicting skills are worked out in a way that really renders expertise not that useful, the application of condis is continous and easy to achieve.

And on the defense side, a power build must counter 2 stats, armor and vitality, whereas condis bypass completely the armor stat.

And do we have a boon like Retaliation that works against condis? No, we don’t.

And to go on, blocks/invulnerabilities works vs the dmg received by power attacks and you don’t get new conditions while the block/invuln frame is active, but previous applied conditions still damage you, power dmg is always fire and forget so conditions have the upper hand even vs block/invulns.

Why do you think that necros/condimesmers are a thing in this S2? Because the animations are cool?

Shala.8352:

[…] because is not hard to reach 25 stack of poison if every time you hit with skills/random aoe you put 10 seconds of 5 stack of poison!!!

And then ppl wonder, why all this crying about condis can’t be taken seriously …

How about learning how condi builds work, where those condis come from and then start thinking about which things could need a change and not the other way arround?

Zodi.8932:

That is the simple fact. Classes that are good with power like Revs die in seconds under pressure. The substitute survivability for their damage and if the enemy team has healing and support then power is almost ineffective.

Condi on the other hand can run builds that can tank 3 people at the same time whilst dealing out condis that can start to stack up and rip down the opponent. All whilst having a load of CC and surivability. Have you ever seen a Rev, Thief or DH do anything in a 2 or 3 vs 1 situation? I have watched good Engi’s, Ele’s and Necros fight 2 or 3 vs 1 on them and win.

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Galandil.9641:

the application of condis is continous and easy to achieve.

Just like the application of power dmg.

Galandil.9641:

And do we have a boon like Retaliation that works against condis? No, we don’t.

Retaliation is not an “anti power” boon, it is an “anti hit” boon, and condi builds have to hit their opponent too and will recive retaliation dmg. And don’t forget about resistance (which – unlike protection – negates 100% of the condition dmg)

Galandil.9641:

And to go on, blocks/invulnerabilities works vs the dmg received by power attacks and you don’t get new conditions while the block/invuln frame is active, but previous applied conditions still damage you, power dmg is always fire and forget so conditions have the upper hand even vs block/invulns.

Defensive abilities work as well against condibuilds as against power builds (with few exceptions like EP/SoS). And then we have condi clease …

Galandil.9641:

Why do you think that necros/condimesmers are a thing in this S2? Because the animations are cool?

That’s 2 out of 9 classes. Where are all those condi thieves, guards, engis, rangers, eles, revs, and warriors. Animations not cool enough?

There are lot’s of things that need changes in the condi department, but most threads about balancing condis are just pointless whining with meaningless arguments and false claims that only show, that those people have absolutely no clue about how those evil condi builds work and what their strenghts and weaknesses are.
Which is pretty much the only reason why i keep defending condis in those threads even though i play mostly power builds.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Galandil.9641:

the application of condis is continous and easy to achieve.

Just like the application of power dmg.

With the tiny little con of not having vitality + toughness and if the enemy decides to sneeze at you, you lose half a hp bar, if not more.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Galandil.9641:

And do we have a boon like Retaliation that works against condis? No, we don’t.

Retaliation is not an “anti power” boon, it is an “anti hit” boon, and condi builds have to hit their opponent too and will recive retaliation dmg. And don’t forget about resistance (which – unlike protection – negates 100% of the condition dmg)

Yes it is. Who’s going to take more damage from retal? A necro that spams #1 through #5 +/- plague signet or a revenant that spams #1 through #5? Without forgetting the fact that revenant stacks power and as such the damage from abilities is higher than regular power damage from condition builds (logic!)

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Defensive abilities work as well against condibuilds as against power builds (with few exceptions like EP/SoS). And then we have condi clease …

Again, negating strong power attacks with the exclusion of few insta casts like precision strikes is easily avoidable while necros hit you through blocks. I don’t know how you don’t see this as an issue, at all. Necros/mesmers are completely free to hit through walls and obstructions due to their high range symbols. Same can be said for DH traps but IMO condis are greater offender.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Galandil.9641:

Why do you think that necros/condimesmers are a thing in this S2? Because the animations are cool?

That’s 2 out of 9 classes. Where are all those condi thieves, guards, engis, rangers, eles, revs, and warriors. Animations not cool enough?

This argument is terribad. It mostly leans on the “shifting meta” ANet wants to have. As such other classes have poor condition output while condi mes and reaper can apply and reapply condis un a blink of an eye. The issues gets worse when you class stack. It’s even worse when you take into account that all this condition damage comes mainly through STRONG aoe attacks.

Most strong power attacks come through very well telegraphed skills that are single targetted or have a bad cone. And are also limited in range, usually ending with 400 range around the caster.

tl;dr – Going condi on mes/necro currently involves 0 risk. You basically have power/condi.dmg/vitality/toughness and all you have to do is just keep on spamming those abilities in teamfights. It’s not like you did some trade-off between dps and survivability. You literally have it all. And there is no stat other than vitality to defend you from conditions. Yeah yeah bla bla i have condi cleanses blah blah … screw this, you have blocks …..

Ravenmoon.5318:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

Stop reading there lmao

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

Stop reading there lmao

Go ahead and input your opinion on the matter. As I’ve said in previous thread I don’t play rev but they are extremely easy for me to kill. The block is annoying but i have unblockable abilities. Dragon heal is easy to notice and I can survive for 3 seconds. Shiro heal is a joke if you block/dodge properly. Staff #4 heals yes but it’s nothing great. <o>

Ravenmoon.5318:

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

Stop reading there lmao

Go ahead and input your opinion on the matter.

I would like to do 6 dodges in a row with every class, teleport away every 5s and use my hard hitting skills without getting interrupted/kited

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

Stop reading there lmao

Go ahead and input your opinion on the matter.

I would like to do 6 dodges in a row with every class, teleport away every 5s and use my hard hitting skills without getting interrupted/kited

I make 5 on a thief am I h4x? I block and blink like a savage on mesmer, while applying damage. This teleport in particular needs a target and using precision strike while interrupted is clearly a bug right now, not a feature. It’s just copying blinding blade with more projectiles and added chill and damage….

Not to mention if you are stupid enough for 6 times you won’t have energy to do anything but bend over and die.

The more I look at your post the most it looks like trollbait rather than constructive criticism …

Ravenmoon.5318:

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

2 blocks, 3 evades (one of them gives endurance back for even more dodges), blinds, glint “invuln” heal, teleport, 25% higher endurance regen … A (meta) necro has his deathshroud (more or less) and … 2 dodges. Necros have always been weak to focus fire and this hasn’t changed much with (condi) reaper.

Ravenmoon.5318:

With the tiny little con of not having vitality + toughness and if the enemy decides to sneeze at you, you lose half a hp bar, if not more.

Nobody runs zerk amulet and defense from traits and skills is more important than defense from stats only in most cases (just look at scrapper for example – even with marauder it is a better bunker than merc necro).

Ravenmoon.5318:

Yes it is. Who’s going to take more damage from retal? A necro that spams #1 through #5 +/- plague signet or a revenant that spams #1 through #5? Without forgetting the fact that revenant stacks power and as such the damage from abilities is higher than regular power damage from condition builds (logic!)

Who is going to take more retal dmg, a condi ranger who spams shortbow skills or a power ranger with greatsword? It is a matter of hit speed and has nothing to do with condi or power in general. Also retal dmg scales with the power of the source, not with the power of the attacker (unless it got changed in the last few months, never payed much attention to retal dmg).

Ravenmoon.5318:

Again, negating strong power attacks with the exclusion of few insta casts like precision strikes is easily avoidable while necros hit you through blocks. I don’t know how you don’t see this as an issue, at all. Necros/mesmers are completely free to hit through walls and obstructions due to their high range symbols. Same can be said for DH traps but IMO condis are greater offender.

Unblockable marks are a very class/weapon/trait specific issue and no reasons to nerf condis in general. Mesmers doesn’t hit through blocks or walls and generally don’t have that much ranged pressure (ranged shatters are very easy to avoid). You can debate about nerfing those unblockable marks or some other necro skills/traits, same for condi mesmer, that’s totally fine. But that doesn’t require the nerf of all condi builds – most of them are already very weak, with easy to avoid attacks.

And since you mention dh traps – trap ranger is weaker than dh despite being condi, which again proves that it’s not a condi vs power issue. It always depends on specific skills or traits and those have to be looked at.

Ravenmoon.5318:

This argument is terribad. It mostly leans on the “shifting meta” ANet wants to have. As such other classes have poor condition output while condi mes and reaper can apply and reapply condis un a blink of an eye. The issues gets worse when you class stack. It’s even worse when you take into account that all this condition damage comes mainly through STRONG aoe attacks.

So it is only a condi mes and necro issue and therefore no reason to nerf other condi builds. Right?

Ravenmoon.5318:

tl;dr – Going condi on mes/necro currently involves 0 risk. You basically have power/condi.dmg/vitality/toughness and all you have to do is just keep on spamming those abilities in teamfights. It’s not like you did some trade-off between dps and survivability. You literally have it all. And there is no stat other than vitality to defend you from conditions. Yeah yeah bla bla i have condi cleanses blah blah … screw this, you have blocks …..

It is as risky as going scrapper/ele/druid/rev. None of the current meta builds is risky or very hard to play. It is all the same faceroll, passive, boring, spammy, whatever, … kitten

What needs to be toned down, and this is nothing new, is the AoE application of everything.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Krysard.1364:

Ravenmoon.5318:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Power revs are better at dealing with focus than necros because they can negate the dmg better. Engis and eles usually don’t play condi, but power/bunker. Thanks for disproving your own argument against condis.

Negate damage, how? Through the shield block, which puts you stationary and open for unblockable attacks like every necro staff mark? Because of unrelenting assault? Through dodges? You mean the ones that every class has? :O cool story bro

Stop reading there lmao

Go ahead and input your opinion on the matter.

I would like to do 6 dodges in a row with every class, teleport away every 5s and use my hard hitting skills without getting interrupted/kited

I make 5 on a thief am I h4x? I block and blink like a savage on mesmer, while applying damage. This teleport in particular needs a target and using precision strike while interrupted is clearly a bug right now, not a feature. It’s just copying blinding blade with more projectiles and added chill and damage….

Not to mention if you are stupid enough for 6 times you won’t have energy to do anything but bend over and die.

The more I look at your post the most it looks like trollbait rather than constructive criticism …

Are you trolling or what? Im talking about the tools you have as damage reduction. No other class has so much tools, unlike you said before.

Condition Cleanses are the condition equivalent of toughness. Toughness mitigates damage taken once all other forms of avoidance fail such as those blocks dodges and invulnerabilities. It has one great advantage over a cleanse in that it is working “all the time”.

A cleanse does the same thing against a condition. It mitigates the damage a Condition already applied will do. Its advantage is it can mitigate 100 percent of that condition damage. The downside is there a finite amount of cleanses. This means in game terms “toughness” is EASIER then a cleanse as there no need to time just when that toughness will be used .

Conditions ignore toughness. Power damage ignores condition cleanses. The more utilities and traits I take to cleanse conditions , the greater the advantage a power build gains over me.

Any build can avoid Condition damage applications just as they can avoid power damage applications. Whether a skill is unblockable when applying a condition is immaterial as skills are also unblockable when applying direct damage.

Conditions are damage over time meaning in order to work it required that a Condition build have more sustain.

The vast majority of my time is in WvW. Power damage builds are about 80 percent of what I see. Of my 16 toons only 4 use conditions as I find power superior. Condition damage builds are “easier” to play but if people are as good as they claim to be those builds can be dealth with. There are a number of professions I find “easier” to play, that does not translate into them being OP.

When it comes to doing outright damage Power rules and is superior to condition damage. That a condition build can trait for toughness/vitality while doing damage is moot. I do that on a power build. Yes in order to do that I have to give up outright damage for that survivability but that the very reason people take condition builds over power. They know they will do less damage but will survive longer. Without that extended survivability they will die in seconds to a power build and were that the case there would be no reason to take a condition build over power.

The real issue with Condition builds is the same as it is with power builds. There might be certain individual attacks that are “overtuned”. Some suggest COR does too much damage. Some suggest True shot does too much damage. Some suggest DH traps does too much damage. Some suggest vault does too much damage. While offering no opinion on each of these skills when one debates whether are not the damge too high on these attacks, we do not conclude that “all power attacks are too powerful and power needs to be toned down”. We address each of these skills individually.

The same applies to Conditions and the fallacy of the argument that “Conditions need to be toned down” is made evident , as others have pointed out, that only a small handful of classes can make truly competitive Condition builds. If it was as bad as claimed than those would be the only builds we see.

If there are certain skills that are too powerful in their application of conditions than those can be looked at.

My own personal opinion is that a larger issue exists with AOE attacks be they condition or power as Pyriall suggested. Those attacks apply everything many working without a target.

It is capped by stacks.

I noticed a number of theorycrafting fails in this thread, so I thought I’d comment.

On the subject of Necro survivability vs Revenant and others
Necro’s survivability comes from two things raw health pool + healing (LF gain is basically just healing.)
What people have to remember about HP and healing based defenses is that neither scale with incoming damage. This is both a strength and a weakness depending on situation.
Healing/LF regen doesn’t scale with damage taken which means it’s enormously powerful in low DTPS situations and extremely weak in high DPS situations. Necros can sustain 1v1s against bruisers almost indefinitely because of this.
However the fact that it doesn’t scale also makes it very weak against high levels of damage(burst/spikes) A coordinated focus fire will implode a necro because the necro can’t regen it’s LF and HP anywhere near as fast as it is losing it. On the other hand, classes like revenant that are built around mitigation and negation will fare much better against a focus fire because their evades and blocks will still negate everything regardless of whether they are taking 1k hits or 50k hits.

On the subject of Meta condi builds running Mercenary
People here have said that mercenary proves that condi builds only need condi stat and nothing else.
The fallacy with that position is that meta builds aren’t actually optimized for damage. Scrapper is the perfect counter example since meta scrapper runs Paladin amulet despite the fact that paladin amulet lacks ferocity.
The optimal amulet for condi damage output is Viper, just as the optimal amulet for power damage output is Beserker.

Another important point that hasn’t been brought up is the fact that power and precision are useful on condi builds. None of the condi builds are actually doing pure condi damage. I’ve noted in the end-match damage statistics that meta necro does 30%-40% of it’s damage in power damage.
Additionally most condi builds utilize traits that apply condis on crits in addition to on-crit sigils. This makes having precision huge for most condi builds. In fact the total lack of a decent precision+condi amulet is one of the bigger reasons as to why there are only a couple condi builds in the meta.

Condis don’t have as many counters has power does.
Condis are actually double penalized. The first penalty is that Condis have to applied by an ability. If these abilities are blocked or evaded the condis are not applied. The second penalty is that even after successfully applied the condis can be cleansed.

There are additionally a number of mitigation sources for condis. There are runes and traits that passively reduce the duration of condis. Then there is the resistance boon.

brannigan.9831:

It is capped by stacks.

The stack cap for condis is effectively unreachable.

people keep saying condi cleanse can avoid 100% of the dmg, but i wonder are we playing the same game? assuming you have perfect connection, a quad core 2.4ghz nervous system that allows you an immediate reaction, you still have to count the cast time, plus the time of a skill you was using if it stuck you in animation or it queues on it. So no matter how fast reaction you have, before a cleanse you will get at least one thick.
Also many condi lovers cant understand it, but by cleansing i’m loosing fight time due to the cast time of the cleanse skill i’m using, meaning i wont be offensive while cleansing. Instead, against power there’s just a stat doing everything for you, in fact you don’t have to lose any cast time or even change your utility/trait build, cuz a single stat is already countering power/precision/ferocity.
This is my last post on condi hate, cuz i feel like i’m talking to kids who don’t want to understand.
For those who think power revenant has good survivability, go watch my video on youtube, i can kill any revenant with just necro scepter autoattack. So even the “best” power dps build is easily outplayed by condi dps.

Oh also STOP saying that condi have to applied by an ability, cuz in fact you have so many skill/aoe/traits/procs/runes applying condi that it doesnt matter if you fail to hit once-twice, you will get that condi load no matter what. It’s like if a warrior could spam eviscerate repeatedly, doesnt matter if you fail once.
Also the difference is that even with 0 power, every condi application skill can still do higher power dmg than the condi dmg resulting from the same skill used with berserker amulet.
I played condi, i immediately stopped cuz i found it so hilarious braindeath that i thought that even pokemon was more hardcore than playing condi in gw2.

babazhook.6805:

Condition Cleanses are the condition equivalent of toughness. Toughness mitigates damage taken once all other forms of avoidance fail such as those blocks dodges and invulnerabilities. It has one great advantage over a cleanse in that it is working “all the time”.

A cleanse does the same thing against a condition. It mitigates the damage a Condition already applied will do. Its advantage is it can mitigate 100 percent of that condition damage. The downside is there a finite amount of cleanses. This means in game terms “toughness” is EASIER then a cleanse as there no need to time just when that toughness will be used .

Conditions ignore toughness. Power damage ignores condition cleanses. The more utilities and traits I take to cleanse conditions , the greater the advantage a power build gains over me.

Any build can avoid Condition damage applications just as they can avoid power damage applications. Whether a skill is unblockable when applying a condition is immaterial as skills are also unblockable when applying direct damage.

Conditions are damage over time meaning in order to work it required that a Condition build have more sustain.

The vast majority of my time is in WvW. Power damage builds are about 80 percent of what I see. Of my 16 toons only 4 use conditions as I find power superior. Condition damage builds are “easier” to play but if people are as good as they claim to be those builds can be dealth with. There are a number of professions I find “easier” to play, that does not translate into them being OP.

When it comes to doing outright damage Power rules and is superior to condition damage. That a condition build can trait for toughness/vitality while doing damage is moot. I do that on a power build. Yes in order to do that I have to give up outright damage for that survivability but that the very reason people take condition builds over power. They know they will do less damage but will survive longer. Without that extended survivability they will die in seconds to a power build and were that the case there would be no reason to take a condition build over power.

The real issue with Condition builds is the same as it is with power builds. There might be certain individual attacks that are “overtuned”. Some suggest COR does too much damage. Some suggest True shot does too much damage. Some suggest DH traps does too much damage. Some suggest vault does too much damage. While offering no opinion on each of these skills when one debates whether are not the damge too high on these attacks, we do not conclude that “all power attacks are too powerful and power needs to be toned down”. We address each of these skills individually.

The same applies to Conditions and the fallacy of the argument that “Conditions need to be toned down” is made evident , as others have pointed out, that only a small handful of classes can make truly competitive Condition builds. If it was as bad as claimed than those would be the only builds we see.

If there are certain skills that are too powerful in their application of conditions than those can be looked at.

My own personal opinion is that a larger issue exists with AOE attacks be they condition or power as Pyriall suggested. Those attacks apply everything many working without a target.

This made me laugh.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

I can’t tell if you are serious and have just never played a PvP match before or if you are just trolling…

Shala.8352:

people keep saying condi cleanse can avoid 100% of the dmg, but i wonder are we playing the same game? assuming you have perfect connection, a quad core 2.4ghz nervous system that allows you an immediate reaction, you still have to count the cast time, plus the time of a skill you was using if it stuck you in animation or it queues on it. So no matter how fast reaction you have, before a cleanse you will get at least one thick.
Also many condi lovers cant understand it, but by cleansing i’m loosing fight time due to the cast time of the cleanse skill i’m using, meaning i wont be offensive while cleansing. Instead, against power there’s just a stat doing everything for you, in fact you don’t have to lose any cast time or even change your utility/trait build, cuz a single stat is already countering power/precision/ferocity.
This is my last post on condi hate, cuz i feel like i’m talking to kids who don’t want to understand.
For those who think power revenant has good survivability, go watch my video on youtube, i can kill any revenant with just necro scepter autoattack. So even the “best” power dps build is easily outplayed by condi dps.

Oh also STOP saying that condi have to applied by an ability, cuz in fact you have so many skill/aoe/traits/procs/runes applying condi that it doesnt matter if you fail to hit once-twice, you will get that condi load no matter what. It’s like if a warrior could spam eviscerate repeatedly, doesnt matter if you fail once.
Also the difference is that even with 0 power, every condi application skill can still do higher power dmg than the condi dmg resulting from the same skill used with berserker amulet.
I played condi, i immediately stopped cuz i found it so hilarious braindeath that i thought that even pokemon was more hardcore than playing condi in gw2.

This pretty much

Shala.8352:

It’s like if a warrior could spam eviscerate repeatedly, doesnt matter if you fail once.

With the spec, warrs kinda can. Also, talking about meta builds a power rev actually can spam PS which is even better than eviscerate most of the times. Its not the condi build which is spammy, its the game in general.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

I can’t tell if you are serious and have just never played a PvP match before or if you are just trolling…

Go on, make a condi mesmer and tell me how it is isn’t braindead … Because I did make one and It was a yawn fest up to diamond. It’s so bad i didnt even bother placing tactical portals, i was just shredding everything while i was kiting.

#mad #skills #bro

Shala.8352:

people keep saying condi cleanse can avoid 100% of the dmg, but i wonder are we playing the same game? assuming you have perfect connection, a quad core 2.4ghz nervous system that allows you an immediate reaction, you still have to count the cast time, plus the time of a skill you was using if it stuck you in animation or it queues on it. So no matter how fast reaction you have, before a cleanse you will get at least one thick.

Getting hit by a tick or two isn’t fatal, the exception being if it’s like a 10+ stack of burning.
This isn’t a black and white issue. You don’t need to completely and utterly negate 100% of all condi damage, just in the same way you don’t have to evade every single kitten power attack that ever gets thrown at you.

I’ve noticed a lot of people tend to panic whenever they see condis on their bar and just dump their cleanses even when the condis in question where not really that dangerous.
When I get condis on me I pay attention to what type and how many stacks. Having 2 stacks of vuln, 2 stacks of bleed and maybe a small amount of poison isn’t all that threatening. Sure it’s damage but it’s not something I need to burn cleanses on.

[quote=6085629;Shala.8352:][quote]

do you read or you only read what you want to read? IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE DURATION OF THE CONDI ISSS, BECAUSE THEY THICK LIKE A BURSTY EVISCERATE SO IT DOESNT CHANGE A THING IF THEY LAST 4second and HALF INSTEAD OF FIVEEEE!

Aniway you are right, best thing is to wait 2 seconds, see if the condi are too bursty then cleanse!!! cuz in fact you cant know in that aoe spamm in the middle from who the condi are coming. So let’s wait those 2 seconds, then say “oh my god 1k poison thick and 1k torment thick, maybe i should have cleansed 2 seconds ago”…. in fact condi can come from any skill, so how can you know from wich one did it comes? there’s not a clear animation, every condi skills look all the same (look at that necro), there’s nothing like an easy animation like eviscerate or UA telling you “look there’s a burst incoming, maybe you should use a dodge or some protection/evade skill, or just let the toghness defend you in automatic”. Well you are right, it does make sense, let’s wait the thicks. Funny it will be, that after 2 thicks and you notice how big they are thicking, a random weakness/blind/vulnerability procs arrives and you cleanse those ones instead of the dmg ones XD XD XD XD XD

Trying to discuss with a reaper….if you expect them to say “condis need changes”…gl waiting…

Is there even a single skill in the game that can apply conditicks above 1,5-2k (the dmg which powerbuilds can easily do with autoattacks). Just from one skill alone?

Btw just because you are obviously not able to deal with condis, this isn’t true for everyone. Guess why …

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

I can’t tell if you are serious and have just never played a PvP match before or if you are just trolling…

I’m curious if you actually read what he wrote.

Just going to put my opinion out there.
I believe there are 2 things that makes condi easier then power.
1: missing an condi attack is not as punishing as a power attack. To make the most out of your power dmg you want to buff it up with might and if you miss you loose all the dmg. With condi you can make sure you land it and then buff you up with might. This makes it less skillful. They should only be reacting to the amount of condi dmg you had while you made the attack.

2: Having only 2 real stats to go for in a condibuild (condi dmg and duration) compared to 3 for power ones makes it easier to make it tanky aswell.

I personally would like to see condi dmg reduced a good amount and make conditions being able to crit in some way to bring them back up to their full dmg. This would precision more useful for condibuilds and weakness would counter them. While I don’t deem it necessary it would probably be easier to balance if condi dmg was affected by both dmg modifiers and regular dmg reduction.

I usually play on both power and condi builds and it’s easy to feel that condi builds doesn’t punish you as much for failing. That said I don’t believe it’s as crazy some people seems to believe.

The way condi works is fine. The issue is in the builds that use them.

1) Since a few post-HoT buffs, Reaper has much-improved boon corrupts and chill damage that is over-the-top. Fix these things and condi reaper is suddenly balanced.

2) Condi mesmer has certainly never been OP, especially since the release of HoT…the introduction of new amulets didn’t suddenly make this class way OP. Rather, bunker mesmer was nerfed and this turned out to be the next best thing. Mesmer condi application is actually quite balanced—-it’s simply the double Moa that turns fights. If continuum split was incompatible with elite utilities, this condi class would be fine.

That’s really it. All that being said, these are the two classes which can really take advantage of the mercenary amulet to the fullest, so there might be something there.

wtf am i even reading…. out of the 6 classes that are considered meta only 2 actually use conditions. and both of them dont stack well.
so condition dmg is clearly not that OP.
just cause YOU cant deal with it, its not broken

DTATL.9641:

1: missing an condi attack is not as punishing as a power attack. To make the most out of your power dmg you want to buff it up with might and if you miss you loose all the dmg. With condi you can make sure you land it and then buff you up with might. This makes it less skillful. They should only be reacting to the amount of condi dmg you had while you made the attack.

Is it?
The argument about might is valid, but that argument only works for condi classes that have direct control over their might generation.
To apply a condi you have to land the attack. If you don’t land the attack the condi isn’t there. No different than power.

2: Having only 2 real stats to go for in a condibuild (condi dmg and duration) compared to 3 for power ones makes it easier to make it tanky aswell.

Except Dire amulets don’t exist in sPvP. All amulets have at least 2 offensive stats, and no amulet condi or power has a defensive stat as major.

You’re also ignoring the fact that the majority of condi builds utilize on-crit traits. Not to mention that condi builds don’t deal pure condi. Meta condi builds for instance are doing 30-40% of their total damage in power damage.

You’re right in saying that condi builds tend to run tanky, but they are sacrificing significant amouts of damage to do so.

I personally would like to see condi dmg reduced a good amount and make conditions being able to crit in some way to bring them back up to their full dmg. This would precision more useful for condibuilds and weakness would counter them.

Check your end-of-match damage taken statistics. If yours are anything like mine your condi damage taken will probably be under a quarter of your power damage taken for most matches even ones against condi heavy teams.

Precision is already somewhat useful for condi builds because almost every condi focused specialization tree in the game has on-crit apply x condi traits. Oh and those on-crit condi sigils.
Your change would make precision mandatory for condi builds, which would completely gut every single condi build except reapers because the only amulets with precision and condi are glass cannon amulets.
And of all the condi builds reapers are probably the only ones that could afford to run glass cannon in this meta.

Pyriall.1683:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

I can’t tell if you are serious and have just never played a PvP match before or if you are just trolling…

I’m curious if you actually read what he wrote.

We can go through it step by step if that would help your comprehension:

1. You can go full tank and still have condition damage. True, but you can also do this with power, it is called solider gear. Both only increase 1 of 3 possible stats needed to do damage. (power/precision/ferocity) and (CD/expertise/precision). Of course condition builds also get between 40-50% of their damage from power so they actually need 5 stats to max out damage, which they can’t ever do. (see after match necro stats)

2. He claims that going glass canon makes him die under focus fire as a power build but somehow doesn’t as a condition build… If I equip Zerker gear and then switch to viper gear my vitality and toughness are the same so I have no idea what he is talking about. 2 points he is just plain wrong about.

3. AA on thief and DH are different than Necro. Well this is true. Necro AA can’t crit the main damage portion while thief and DH’s can meaning every necro AA will do ~2000 damage (over 5 seconds) while thief and DH will do 2000-5000 instantly. Another disadvantage to condition users… really starting to doubt he’s ever stepped into PvP…

4. retaliation doesn’t hit condition users…. Well now i’m sure he’s never stepped into PvP. Retaliation hits someone every time my necro does an attack just like it does for every other class. If I swing my scepter 3 times on necro I get 3 hits of retaliation. If I swing my daggers 3 times on thief I get 3 hits of retaliation. The difference being that after 3 swings and 3 seconds of fighting the thief has done 10,000 damage while the necro has only done 2000 with another 8000 if the target does nothing for the next 10 seconds.

5. He is correct they are not balanced, they are very different with an inherent disadvantage to condition specs which is why only 3 of the current 11 meta builds are condition while the other 8 are power or healing based.

Hope that helps you understand better

Crinn.7864:

Is it?
The argument about might is valid, but that argument only works for condi classes that have direct control over their might generation.
To apply a condi you have to land the attack. If you don’t land the attack the condi isn’t there. No different than power.

In general no there is no difference but with buffing through might there is. It gives condibuilds more leeway which might be fine but I would rather have it be like power-dmg. While you might not have full control over the might you have, there is enough to make sure you boost it for when you want it, like a necro going out if shroud(this varies depending on the build and class yes but is still a thing)

Except Dire amulets don’t exist in sPvP. All amulets have at least 2 offensive stats, and no amulet condi or power has a defensive stat as major.

You’re also ignoring the fact that the majority of condi builds utilize on-crit traits. Not to mention that condi builds don’t deal pure condi. Meta condi builds for instance are doing 30-40% of their total damage in power damage.

You’re right in saying that condi builds tend to run tanky, but they are sacrificing significant amouts of damage to do so.

Check your end-of-match damage taken statistics. If yours are anything like mine your condi damage taken will probably be under a quarter of your power damage taken for most matches even ones against condi heavy teams.

Precision is already somewhat useful for condi builds because almost every condi focused specialization tree in the game has on-crit apply x condi traits. Oh and those on-crit condi sigils.

You are not wrong to say that. Condi clearly does less dmg as it only scales with 2 stats which is fair balancing. But what I missed to say is that full glass condi(and I mean full condi with no power) should be comparable with full glass power. To do that without being OP it would need another stat which I suggest would be precision. Sure right now precision is used by condi for on-crit effects but it’s not as impactful as it is for power builds. And I do think precision should do more for condibuilds. Obviously this would have to be balanced around those on-crit effects aswell so it wouldn’t be crazy.

Your change would make precision mandatory for condi builds, which would completely gut every single condi build except reapers because the only amulets with precision and condi are glass cannon amulets.
And of all the condi builds reapers are probably the only ones that could afford to run glass cannon in this meta.

As with all changes to combat-systems numbers would have to be changed to make sure things don’t utterly suck or goes out of control. These are still the changes I would like to make to condition-dmg to make it more interesting. I hope it’s more clear what I wanted to say this time. I know from experience I suck at explain things as I tend to forget parts.

Shala.8352:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh please, crybabies. Condi damage is so freaking cheesy ….. you can go full tank and still have condi damage. A viable power build would need power AND precision and in most cases even ferocity which makes you instant glass cannon, as in … you get focused for a second and you die.

Meanwhile, to be viable condi DPSer all the stats you need to stack are, wait for it —-————- condi damage. That’s all there is to this braindead gameplay. It has no risk in it. Just reward.

Talk about spamming all you want, but spamming autoattack on a thief/DH and spamming AA on necro are 2 different things.

Oh what was that? Retaliation doesn’t hit back when you attack through condis? Ahh … cool. Meanwhile glass thieves kill themselves on targets with retalionation up.

I can totally see how condition damage is balanced. amirite?

Power needs Precision and ferocity.
Conditions need duration and expertise.

Power/precision/crit damage values are increased with might and fury and ferocity.

Condition values are increased with might to reach a hard ceiling of damage and stacks. Their values don’t increase with precision or fury or ferocity.

All you have successfully proven is that conditions are still weak and need to be buffed so their values also increase with fury or any other value metric.

No one got a critical hit condition damage for 7k. No condition user ever hit for 3.5k on a critical auto attack.

No one ever had their physical damage over written by someone else’s weak physical damage.

Thanks for highlighting conditions need a buff.

Well done. Good argument.

If they don’t need precision and ferocity, then they need less stats XD XD.
And no you don’t need expertise, cuz actualy skills are so bad balanced that they already give an insane amount of seconds of condi, that’s why your argument about “they need to be stack in order to do dmg” totaly crash, because is not hard to reach 25 stack of poison if every time you hit with skills/random aoe you put 10 seconds of 5 stack of poison!!!
Also you don’t need expertise, since condi dmg is bursty! you are not gonna do a DoT, you are gonna do a burst!!! no need expertise for a burst!!!

We can argue all you want, condi players will never admit how easy and braindead their gameplay is compared to power dps builds, men this is a noobfriendly game, thats why we have condi so OP, to help noobs.

And to answer the post aboves, i don’t need any toghness to counter a power dps if i am power dps too, instead i cant counter a condi player without condi cleanser (wich are never high enough, and unbalanced between classes) even if i am a power dps, because the condi player will be tanky as hell while still beeing able to do the dmg.

Also the retalation/weakness/protection/dmg reduction argument is so so obvious that it’s useless repeating it for thousand times, if condi players and Anet balance team don’t get it at the first sight, then we cant avoid their blindness.

Welcome to your new purchase of gw2.
“Those tanky as hell condi players.”
There is 9 amulets in PvP that have the toughness stat. 7 of them are power or healing based. 2 are condi based.

I think the what you mean to say is, “Those tanky as hell power users.”

There is only one rune that affects condi stat and toughness. Undead runes.
There Is 9 runes that affect toughness and vitality.

Every thing your rambling on about just isn’t supported by any evidence.

“they spam conditions…” power users also make pretty effective use of ‘spamming attacks’ as well.

The fact is, if your dying over and over again to conditions, its time you changed, rather than you insist everything else change.

The only ‘tanky as hell’..and “condi spam” build out there is warrior berserker..and if there is any profession that really doesn’t deserve any further nerfs its warrior.

Maybe your talking about evade spam thief?..which is far from tanky.
Maybe your talking about chrono phantasm..which is far from tanky..
Maybe your taking about chill reaper..which is far from tanky…

Any which way, there is no ‘tanky as hell’ condition builds apart from berserker, and lets face it..do we see them dominating the game?…exactly.

You’re just angry because you think condition stacking is for ‘noobs’..yet in the same sentence keep making references to dying to these same noobs. See where I am going with this?..if your dying to conditions, that you feel ‘have been spammed’ by ‘noobs’ that speaks more about where you’re at then anything else.

Before any match starts players can swap to hoelbrak, svanir, generosity, swap to cleansing traits etc etc..it not like options are limited in how to approach this.

However its only of benefit to you if you make use of this and alter your build to accommodate match where you can see there is 2 or more tradition condition users.