Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: JonPeters.5630

Previous

JonPeters.5630

Game Design Lead

Next

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

That’s probably a good first step. However, it’s fairly common for competitive games to have standardized avatar models.

Example: Unreal Tournament.

I wouldn’t put it past the community to request this as a feature since it does make sense in the scheme of things.

Didn’t you just basically request it? :P

I’ll bring it up when I get back, although I know we haven’t explored it much and there will be some issues.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Defektive.7283

Defektive.7283

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

That’s probably a good first step. However, it’s fairly common for competitive games to have standardized avatar models.

Example: Unreal Tournament.

I wouldn’t put it past the community to request this as a feature since it does make sense in the scheme of things.

Didn’t you just basically request it? :P

I’ll bring it up when I get back, although I know we haven’t explored it much and there will be some issues.

Lil ol me passively requesting things!? Impossibru!

:P

tPvP Warrior
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive
Team Blacklisted [Envy]

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

Jon, I would love it if instead of using so many particle effects we instead used more weapon trails and .swh effects.

They are just as pretty (A lot of them in the game seem /hand painted/) and don’t clog up the entire screen with explosions.

As I mentioned at some point earlier, we are working on a system that basically weights these effects and tries to make the noisier ones less noisy. This system is in a good place right now on our development servers so expect to hear about it fairly soon.

It will definitely try and bring out the streaks and such a bit compared to the chaos storms, for example.

Jon

This is great to hear and i imagine it would be applied game wide for WvW and PvE also?

Still as a tPvP player i wouldnt mind making everyone appear on your screen as humans. Animations from bigger models are easier to recignize quickly and then you have extra time to dodge, im not talking about 1v1 melee range fighting but trying to read asura animations from range is a PITA.

GW2 Videos WvW Ele/Thief/Mesmer/Ranger/Warrior PvP Videos
Jade Quarry – Team Savvy – #1 NA WvW Solo Guild

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: JonPeters.5630

Previous

JonPeters.5630

Game Design Lead

Next

Yeah this system is game wide and like I said, you won’t even need to be that patient as we are close to being ready to talk about it. Should help PvP, WvW, big events, dungeons, etc.

Jon

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Yeah this system is game wide and like I said, you won’t even need to be that patient as we are close to being ready to talk about it. Should help PvP, WvW, big events, dungeons, etc.

Jon

I’m really looking forward to that feature… cause yeah, as you can imagine, THIS is kind of an issue in PVE as well:

Attachments:

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: feliscatus.1430

feliscatus.1430

I’ll bring it up when I get back, although I know we haven’t explored it much and there will be some issues.

FYI – most of us would rather have you guys working on just about anything else

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Tharium.7325

Tharium.7325

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

That would certainly be a help, but I still feel that the tiny size of asura is a problem for us watching these tournament games. As has been said their attacks are simply harder to read and the players are harder to keep track of. Also you have to think of people who might be new Guild Wars or not play it at all. When they see some GW2 tournament on the front page of twitch and all they see are midgets running around it just looks silly.

That’s why I simply suggested banning asura characters from proper tournaments like the pax one that you are running because it would require absolutely no work and would instantly improve the viewing experience for all of us.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: ilr.9675

ilr.9675

I like how OP assumes that most GW players … much less anyone else looking at it … has those Telegraphs memorized or gives a kitten what they are telegraphing.

We don’t even bother memorizing the ones the Corrupted Orr Priests do
(usually b/c we can’t even see them with all the AOE/projectile particle spam in the way)


>.>
<.<
Asura #1 all the way. suck it bookah

(edited by ilr.9675)

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

I like how OP assumes that most GW players … much less anyone else looking at it … has those Telegraphs memorized or gives a kitten what they are telegraphing.

We don’t even bother memorizing the ones the Corrupted Orr Priests do
(usually b/c we can’t even see them with all the AOE/projectile particle spam in the way)


>.>
<.<
Asura #1 all the way. suck it bookah

Dude, this is about PvP not PvE, also when a player with low hp raises one of his
hands it safe to asume that he will use a heal → a good time to interrupt him, or
when a p/p thief (yes there are people who play them) raises both pistols a bit,
he will use unload, etc etc. Things like that are important, belive it or not….

Also the thread is more about the watching aspekt, since if all you can see are
differend colored partices and little ausra jumping around , as if the ground was
lava, it really gets hard to follow what’s going on, especially when you add some
minions and stuff….

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Steb.2571

Steb.2571

Jon, thanks for the response, and while I feel particle effects may be an issue for some people, and for seeing whats going on, the issue of Asura are a completely seperate and important matter. The reason players spam asura is because they are small, and it’s impossible to tell what weapons they’re holding most of the time, what animations they’re casting, (save greatsword / hammer) what they’re doing, and targeting them is significantly harder than other races. The biggest issue of the following is animation hiding, which is why so many people play them, especially at the top end.

That said, people have brought up in several threads now, not just this one, that it’s not only confusing to play against, but confusing to watch, unentertaining, and really detracts from the whole experience, not to mention seeing everyone play the same race is unappealing in general.

The most logical solution to this would be to normalize character size, similar to how it was done in Super Adventure Box. Because it’s obviously become a problem, and now that we have people watching, everyone has begun pointing it out.

From personal experience as a top tier player, I despise fighting Asuran models, they’re difficult to read and respond to properly, they’re harder to select, and give a clear advantage, but I prefer to play a human due to aesthetic reasons, though it would be in my best interest to do as many others do, and just simply play Asura. I don’t want to do that, and I don’t think it should be the solution. If it’s a problem at the top, it’s easily a problem everywhere else, especially to people learning the game and trying to read the dozens of asuran models, then dying and having no idea why, or what’s going on.

This game is an animation based game, and Asura’s work directly against that, no matter how crazy the animations are, we still need to be able to see their hands, what they’re holding, and what they’re doing.

IGN: Steb
Team: Blacklisted [Envy]

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Allie Murdock

Previous

Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

Next

No, we’re not banning Asuras.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Nikkle.4013

Nikkle.4013

No, we’re not banning Asuras.

And why not? What about normalizing height? Engage the topic please.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

All human/sylvari makes sense to me since they’re about the same height and build.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

No, we’re not banning Asuras.

I love you! Although i wouldnt mind having my asura look as kitten as it looked in SAB

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: dodgerrule.8739

dodgerrule.8739

I am sure the asuran’s height will not be changed. They were meant to be small, and you do not need to see if your opponent is necessarily using a skill. Take a chance, Tyria is filled with it.

Dodger Rule Ranger – Fort Aspenwood

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

this is a stupid request

a smarter option would be to default all asurans in spvp to their race’s max height, which is just as easy to read as the smallest human

even better, in sPvP ALL character models are made default looking.
racial traits remain, but the model itself is standardized as something easier to watch, like humans or norn.

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

Give players the option to convert all character models to the same basic model on their screen. This way they can be happy, and the people who want to play asuras can be happy too.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Allie Murdock

Previous

Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

Next

For several reasons. The main one at this point being that the EU Qualifiers have already ended, and it would be completely unfair to suddenly ban Asuras just for the NA Qualifiers.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Nikkle.4013

Nikkle.4013

For several reasons. The main one at this point being that the EU Qualifiers have already ended, and it would be completely unfair to suddenly ban Asuras just for the NA Qualifiers.

Well the op said pax tournament, not the qualifiers. But still many posts here are talking about making a system that would fix the problems in the future.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

For several reasons. The main one at this point being that the EU Qualifiers have already ended, and it would be completely unfair to suddenly ban Asuras just for the NA Qualifiers.

Well the op said pax tournament, not the qualifiers. But still many posts here are talking about making a system that would fix the problems in the future.

Actually, I don’t think it’s fair to have qualifiers, then change the parameters of the tournament after the quals, even if it would make the PAX finals more “fair”.

I would, however, love to hear what ANet thinks about the fact that Asura have smaller animations and how they think it affects the game as a whole. Judging by the responses, it sounds like they don’t think much of it, but if a significant percentage of PAX players are Asura, I think it raises an interesting question.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Louiziana.2180

Louiziana.2180

I’m not talking about the advantages of playing one though, I’m talking about how they are not a good race for spectators to watch.

so racist…. if asura gets banned, they will just start a civil rights movement! lol no but seriously If you don’t like watching asura and started a post to ban them just because they are small… or have too small skill animations, then you have too much time on your hands.

youtube.com/jacobizreal

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Thedenofsin.7340

Thedenofsin.7340

Actually, I just posted a thread with my feedback on watching the tournament, and the Asura “thing” was definitely a detractor. It looks like a bunch of little hyped up bunnies bouncing and flying around the map. You really can’t see what they’re doing.

Too small to enjoy as a spectator.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7oXvUHqgnY&t=1h6min

It looks kinda silly – you can’t really see what’s going on.

(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

“In spvp, everybody , from start , gets same level , same gear , same skills. Only personal skill will matter as none player will have an unfair advantage. "

Its a big mistake because this is how the game was advertised.
And it hurts the public image of GuildWars2.

EU is over so NA should play by same rules, but the finale would be much better with any of these rules (equal and fair play ):
-no asuras allowed / all standard human size
-max 1-2 asuras per team
-asuras MUST be max size (simply give them a makeover kit)

Dont forget, the customer/viewer is always right

PvP guild [YUM] -apply- (EU) http://muffinspvp.shivtr.com/

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Copenhagen.7015

Copenhagen.7015

Thank you Jon and Allie for responding to this. It’s definitely a good thing the particle spam is being reduced, but as Steb said, Asura size is a separate issue. I think Aaron is on to so something in regards to defaulting Asura to their maximum size for PvP. Any larger and they will probably look horribly unaesthetic.

Or there is Zoose’s suggestion. Have Asura take more damage. J/K !

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

Dont forget, the customer/viewer is always right

That’s just a lousy way of saying you’re entitled no matter what.

As for the argument at hand here, they could discuss a setting for character models. I’m actually kind of surprised they don’t even want to discuss it, it’s just ‘No, not happening.’

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Thedenofsin.7340

Thedenofsin.7340

Take a step back and really look at the Asura race and their animations. It’s hard to see what they are doing, and when they jump and dodge around, they look kind of silly.

Again, just my opinion. It really doesn’t matter to me if the game makes it to e-sport status or not – I play the game just for fun.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

. It’s hard to see what they are doing, and when they jump and dodge around, they look kind of silly.

Yeah, I hate it when I can’t tell if they are dodge-jumping, or just dodge normally.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: ninao.1208

ninao.1208

the thing is that everybody as the chance to reroll an asura character… so…

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

the thing is that everybody as the chance to reroll an asura character… so…

That raises the question: should it be a game of having a really difficult time seeing what the enemy is doing because everyone is the same small race? Or is part of the balance designed around animations that can be read and anticipated in lieu of cast bars?

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: marcotic.9072

marcotic.9072

I really dislike the idea about banning asura from PvP or generalizing every class to a human standard model. Some things that have already been suggested are much more appealing, e.g.:

- Visible cast bars underneath the currently targeted enemy player’s portrait – in addition it might help to implent the option to enable nameplates for players including castbars below them.

- For the people who find it difficult to target asuran character models because of all the pets/turrets it might help if there would be an option that would let you tab target the nearest enemy PLAYER instead of enemy unit.

However, it wouldn’t be as bad if everything was optional. Speaking for myself only, I really wouldn’t want to PvP against players that all share the same model, it would take away a lot of this game’s ‘magic’ and feel way too sterile.

Edit: typo.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Allie Murdock

Previous

Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

Next

marcotic.9072, Please refer to dev responses in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Tab-targetting/2477951

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Malcastus.6240

Malcastus.6240

Not sure about this, but wouldn’t making the hit box or the area surrounding players equal in size help in terms of PvP fairplay, not being able to target someone tiny? Only for SPvP mind you..

What I mean is that it would be easier to target the smallest of characters, not giving you a special advantage.

Of course it wouldn’t help with viewing pleasure.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Allie Murdock

Previous

Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

Next

The hitbox is the same.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: The Boz.2038

The Boz.2038

That’s a problem common to FPS games. Having the same hitbox on two different models doesn’t help if the player is only taking shots that he can SEE would stand a good chance of connecting… IE, not taking shots against the visually smaller model, even though they would hit. It makes aiming take longer in FPS games, and it makes mouse selection in this game take longer as well.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Neare.9703

Neare.9703

I really don’t think this is a huge issue at all. For those that actually have a problem you have an easy solution, roll and asura yourself.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

Stupid bookahs…

Attachments:

Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Super Riceman.8702

Super Riceman.8702

Its simple, we introduce a disease that only affects small annoying creatures

There is only one god and its name is nerf. There is only one thing we say to nerf, not today

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Tharium.7325

Tharium.7325

For several reasons. The main one at this point being that the EU Qualifiers have already ended, and it would be completely unfair to suddenly ban Asuras just for the NA Qualifiers.

Ok that’s fair enough. But how about for the actual final where you will hopefully have a lot more viewers? Neither team would be at a disadvantage. Also this thread has received quite a lot of support so for future tournaments might you consider not allowing asura for the teams interested in competing to keep things more fair and better to watch?

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

Allie the problem isn’t the hitbox it’s the animations/telegraph. For example compare a Larcenous strike animation on a male sylvari vs a male asura

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

It took you nearly 12 months to realize such a thing? Respect

Read It Backwards [BooN]

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: kito.1827

kito.1827

No, we’re not banning Asuras.

happy about that!

im really wondering what happened to the effect which made asuras double-model on stability??
i liked it a lot because i think it looked awesome. like on throw elixir S or on rampage.

did you do that due to players who complained about suddenly being easy spotted? because i think it was a fault decision.

i want it back! (at least give me a statement)

pls <3
:)

Karl Otik
no gutz no glory
“Tranquility has a beard.”

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

would be nice if they completely blocked this class for all pvp or make them significantly larger which then breaks the purpose of an asura

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

The hitbox is the same.

Hitbox is the same, but information clarity is not the same.

Stuns and condition particle effects are less noticeable on Asuras because the particles scale with the size of the character model.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Psych.6527

Psych.6527

They wouldnt have to standardize every player but maybe give the option like they currently have in WvW?

I always run with my WvW settings on the lowest for latency purposes and everyone is set to a standard model. I dont feel like the game is missing anything, i still see weapons, if they could make it so that you see the players gear as well then there should be no problem with a black human/sylvari male/female option mode for the poeple that want to do this, without forcing the people that dont want to do this

Finch Psydstep|Phantasmal Mesmer and Council Leader of
Gamers Republic of South Africa[RSA]|Aurora Glade.
“If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule, of honor!”

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

the thing is that everybody as the chance to reroll an asura character… so…

I really don’t think this is a huge issue at all. For those that actually have a problem you have an easy solution, roll and asura yourself.

How about you read the first post? The games where almost everybody was an Ausra
where the worst to follow. Not everybody who watches plays the game, and not
everybody plays, or wants to play an Asura, also it doesn’t even matter if you normally
play one since in a teamfight with AI and particlecluster, and those aren’t rare btw, it’s
really hard to see what is going on.

Btw it can be easily done, that the “normalization” of the chars is an extra option in the
spectator mode, which leaves the gameplay and immersion for the players at it is.

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Shar.3402

Shar.3402

The hitbox is the same.

Hitbox is the same, but information clarity is not the same.

Stuns and condition particle effects are less noticeable on Asuras because the particles scale with the size of the character model.

Also, harder to see crucial animation (think about guardian’s banish, for example)

Shar Teel – Elementalist
Yolo queue FTW [YOLO] – Desolation (EU)
Champion Magus, Genius

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Jax.5261

Jax.5261

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

That’s probably a good first step. However, it’s fairly common for competitive games to have standardized avatar models.

Example: Unreal Tournament.

I wouldn’t put it past the community to request this as a feature since it does make sense in the scheme of things.

Didn’t you just basically request it? :P

I’ll bring it up when I get back, although I know we haven’t explored it much and there will be some issues.

Err how are there issues in any way? The only difference between races are the sprites right? Which means making your screen personally only show enemies only as Humans:

  • Would be easy for you guys to do
  • Means other people are playing Asura but you don’t see them as such
  • Removes this issue from affecting balance (which should never have been the case in the first place)
  • Observers can still watch the players as the race they are actually playing but the players can have them all standardized so that the game is fair.

Not wanting to start something else but you guys only seeing this suggestion 12 months down the line when people have been suggesting it constantly since the beta is extremely frustrating. There are countless threads which pop up every week or so and the conclusion is the exact same every single time.

And to address the issues which have been addressed countless times in other threads from highest to lowest priority to fix:

  • Asurans have small animations which means you have less reaction time, which sometimes makes a skill on an Asura undodgable while on a Human it is dodgable,
  • Asurans can be covered by other animations so it’s impossible to see the animation before you are hit by it, Banish is the big one. You guys are addressing this though but not the other points unfortunately.
  • Asurans can be harder to follow with their animations and movement, not for me personally but some other players have told me that it can put more strain on their eyes trying to chase something much smaller, obviously less of a problem but something to consider.

Hope you read this so you can finally understand our problem and why reducing particle effects doesn’t fix it.

PS: We don’t mind if this does take a while to fix but acknowledging the issue would be a step completely in the correct direction and an even bigger step would be to confirm that you guys are fixing this BALANCE issue.

(edited by Jax.5261)

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Lucky.9421

Lucky.9421

A lot of great points here.

I would like to add that these events, while being for the GW2 community, are also meant to reach out to the gaming community in general. There is an opportunity to advertise this game and bring people in, thereby growing and strengthening our player base.

That said, full teams of Asuras do not necessarily represent the game accurately. Variety of player races is a strength of GW2.

Maybe instead of banning Asuras from future tourneys, we can mandate that there be one of each of the 5 races present on the team?

(edited by Lucky.9421)

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Jzaku.9765

Jzaku.9765

A lot of great points here.

I would like to add that these events, while being for the GW2 community, are also meant to reach out to the gaming community in general. There is an opportunity to advertise this game and bring people in, thereby growing and strengthening our player base.

That said, full teams of Asuras do not necessarily represent the game accurately. Variety of player races is a strength of GW2.

Maybe instead of banning Asuras from future tourneys, we can mandate that there one of each of the 5 races present on the team?

I gotta say it would be pretty hilarious listening to shoutcasters discussing what races teams matched to classes and how their animations would be taken into play. “so they chose a mesmer charr, they might be trying to create visual noise…” “oh they put their warrior on norn, that’s going to be a risky move since warrior animations are so telegraphed…” “they put their necro on asura? What a waste!”

Can we ban asura from the pax tournament?

in PvP

Posted by: Xsorus.2507

Xsorus.2507

Jon is right about Effects being over the top right now…

The game feels like Dragon kitten sometimes

http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Natures Ninja and Pain Inverter – Ranger PvP movies
http://www.twitch.tv/xsorovos