Guild Wars 2

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Thieves, Elementalists and Guardians are Karl’s professions. The three that were patched today were Robert’s, so maybe Karl is still working on his.

Heh, good one.

Still waiting on the promised 10% healing on Withdraw. Counting in months now.

move to thief subforum coming soon
less eyes the better

I like to teleport around so i will post in this thread.

Imho thief is not as far behind as the forum represents it .

But ppl have to adapt and figure out working build combinations.
If you overbuff thief now the situation will be much worse .-

After 3 years of “zerk” i was hoping for something new.

Still another zerk meta.

-No tanky build ( usually 1 or 2 sec inside a teamfight and u re down, no matter what build/neck you have ). Also while dodging you can’t still deal damage ( as other classes do, with invuls or by trading hits cause higher healt, skills, boons, etc ).

-No viable condition build ( also still there’s not an “aoe” condition move set, as all other classes ).

-Daredevil utilities which force u to channel or stay still taking hit:
1)Bandit Defense: only block 1 attack ( all classes have at least 1 invul, which sometimes allows you to attack while invul. This one last only 1 hit and force you to retaliate standing still for a sec. )
2)Distract/imparing Daggers: seems like poisons/traps ( useless. or not a good choice to trade for ). Maybe there will be a specific build on em, but as the others, out of every meta.
3)Fist fury: 1.15 sec channeling. Punches have to hit all 5 to enable the stun one.
4)Impact strike could be useful. short cd and can interrupt many downed characters ( it fails against insta cc as guardian and ranger. against thieves and mesmers who can teleport/stealth, but at least remains good viable skill. The problem is its not worth taking Daredavil specialization, cause you “can’t” give up trickery/deadly arts. you could swap shadow arts, but it does not seems a great deal ).

There’s also an incrased condition spam.

Really, thief gives its best teaming up with a premade, supporting and moving in and out. You can learn and incrase your skills way more above all other classes. That’s ok.

Still after 3 years there’s only a single way to play it.
Utility skills are mostly trash, and the one used cannot be traded for others.

And a different way to play would be nice ( also nerfing all other classes survival, making em pay for every single mystake as thief do. It’s really bored see invul character spamming all skills inside a capture point… aoe cleave and tanky classe are not meant to be skilled, and are ruining spvp since too much time ).

ps: special mention for staff, which gives u tons of laughs.

Axialbloom.8109:

Thieves, Elementalists and Guardians are Karl’s professions. The three that were patched today were Robert’s, so maybe Karl is still working on his.

Yeah right…This holds no value until we see anything relevant not just increase damage on this and go back to the couch.

Nocta.5274:

Heh, good one.

Still waiting on the promised 10% healing on Withdraw. Counting in months now.

Axialbloom.8109:

maybe Karl is still working on his.

lol’d on this :’D “Maybe”

sinject.4607:

move to thief subforum coming soon
less eyes the better

Thieves are balanced

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves are balanced

Only if everything else isn’t.

Morwath.9817:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves are balanced

Only if everything else isn’t.

balanced

Azure, say, do you miss your thief?
You seem a bit out of con troll lately

Jana.6831:

Azure, say, do you miss your thief?
You seem a bit out of con troll lately

puns are the lowest form of humor, nerf immediately

On topic:

I don’t miss him at all. I play him more than my warrior and wear broken chest armor as a fashion statement. Just because he’s underdog doesnt mean hes not fun.

That, however, doesn’t mean he should stay underdog. Bitter sarcasm is part of my theorycrafting process.

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t miss him at all. I play him more than my warrior and wear broken chest armor as a fashion statement. Just because he’s underdog doesnt mean hes not fun.

That, however, doesn’t mean he should stay underdog. Bitter sarcasm is part of my theorycrafting process.

The one fight I found on our Borderland today..
Who in their right mind despises a free lootbag?

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

Wut. Map control? We can decap a point? Map control is not allowing anyone on a node via instant aoe damage that does more than our single target damage (TRAPS IF YOU CAN’T READ BETWEEN THE LINES)

The problem with thief is our survivability, we can’t stay in melee for more than a couple of seconds before we’re downed.

Thieves have always lacked staying power, but in the past it was balanced by our powerful burst and escape abilities. Now our staying power is even less than before and our burst is nothing spectacular compared to other classes. On top of that pretty much every other class can negate our burst multiple times in a fight. So you end up with a class with mediocre burst that occasionally hits in return for the ability to move around the map quickly, which we’ve always had.

The nerfs over the years plus the power creep of the other classes has made thieve in to a 2nd class citizen. Before the June patch we were in an ok spot. After the June patch we lost a lot of viable specs but had at least 1 ok spec. Now I don’t think there’s any reason to take a thief over mesmer or revenant for the +1 ability. They can do what we can do a little slower, but at least they’re useful in a team fight.

Dakarius.3284:

The problem with thief is our survivability, we can’t stay in melee for more than a couple of seconds before we’re downed.

Thieves have always lacked staying power, but in the past it was balanced by our powerful burst and escape abilities. Now our staying power is even less than before and our burst is nothing spectacular compared to other classes. On top of that pretty much every other class can negate our burst multiple times in a fight. So you end up with a class with mediocre burst that occasionally hits in return for the ability to move around the map quickly, which we’ve always had.

The nerfs over the years plus the power creep of the other classes has made thieve in to a 2nd class citizen. Before the June patch we were in an ok spot. After the June patch we lost a lot of viable specs but had at least 1 ok spec. Now I don’t think there’s any reason to take a thief over mesmer or revenant for the +1 ability. They can do what we can do a little slower, but at least they’re useful in a team fight.

I agree on our burst not being burst anymore, too many blocks/invulns, but I don’t think we have as much escape ability now with glint/shiro and reveals. If you try to stealth away they pop gaze of darkness to reveal you and if you try to teleport/non-stealth away phase traversal will hunt you down.

Anet please read the forums. Just play thief yourself and then you will agree that thief sucks. Ok anet?

Nocta.5274:

Heh, good one.

Still waiting on the promised 10% healing on Withdraw. Counting in months now.

I guess they could fix the patch notes instead of giving us anything that can help a bit.

lvis.3824:

Imho thief is not as far behind as the forum represents it .

But ppl have to adapt and figure out working build combinations.
If you overbuff thief now the situation will be much worse .-

Well, it’s not that bad. The offensive lines are largely great but could use a couple of tweaks to individual skills.

SA is largely fine, but could use a few trait reordering and combinations.

Acro is in poor shape, especially considering how much more effective Daredevil is at the few mediocre traits Acro has (Don’t Stop versus Unhindered Combatant for example). I think rolling Feline Grace into Enforcer Training and then just redoing the entire Acro line would be great for both. Acro could be themed to Infiltration Arts and modify stuff like shadowsteps and emphasize some boon stealing/corruption traits.

Trickery is in good shape. Preparedness should be rolled into thief baseline and bountiful theft moved to that minor master position. The CD reduction on Sleight of Hand should also be rolled baseline.

Daredevil is in pretty decent shape.

Traps are horrible (outside of trapper runes).
Venoms are mediocre.
Tricks need adjustments.
Deception and signet skills are good and used by what seems like 99% of thieves.

Maugetarr.6823:

Well, it’s not that bad. The offensive lines are largely great but could use a couple of tweaks to individual skills.

SA is largely fine, but could use a few trait reordering and combinations.

Acro is in poor shape, especially considering how much more effective Daredevil is at the few mediocre traits Acro has (Don’t Stop versus Unhindered Combatant for example). I think rolling Feline Grace into Enforcer Training and then just redoing the entire Acro line would be great for both. Acro could be themed to Infiltration Arts and modify stuff like shadowsteps and emphasize some boon stealing/corruption traits.

Trickery is in good shape. Preparedness should be rolled into thief baseline and bountiful theft moved to that minor master position. The CD reduction on Sleight of Hand should also be rolled baseline.

Daredevil is in pretty decent shape.

Traps are horrible (outside of trapper runes).
Venoms are mediocre.
Tricks need adjustments.
Deception and signet skills are good and used by what seems like 99% of thieves.

SA trait wise is in good shape, its just that other classes hard counter the trait line with a button push. There is a lot of reveal flying around making the trait line unplayable.

I would also argue that daredevil has to work much harder to sustain compared to the other elite spec.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

This comes up so many times it’s not even funny anymore seriously stop it. You improve what doesn’t provide that mobility and stealth I mean it’s not like we have just two weapon sets,1 set of utility and 3 required lines…is it?

SA traits are not fine.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

Map control means thief is balanced

FeelsAlright.5860:

Maugetarr.6823:

Well, it’s not that bad. The offensive lines are largely great but could use a couple of tweaks to individual skills.

SA is largely fine, but could use a few trait reordering and combinations.

Acro is in poor shape, especially considering how much more effective Daredevil is at the few mediocre traits Acro has (Don’t Stop versus Unhindered Combatant for example). I think rolling Feline Grace into Enforcer Training and then just redoing the entire Acro line would be great for both. Acro could be themed to Infiltration Arts and modify stuff like shadowsteps and emphasize some boon stealing/corruption traits.

Trickery is in good shape. Preparedness should be rolled into thief baseline and bountiful theft moved to that minor master position. The CD reduction on Sleight of Hand should also be rolled baseline.

Daredevil is in pretty decent shape.

Traps are horrible (outside of trapper runes).
Venoms are mediocre.
Tricks need adjustments.
Deception and signet skills are good and used by what seems like 99% of thieves.

SA trait wise is in good shape, its just that other classes hard counter the trait line with a button push. There is a lot of reveal flying around making the trait line unplayable.

I would also argue that daredevil has to work much harder to sustain compared to the other elite spec.

Well for SA something along the lines of combining concealed defeat and last refuge, then cutting out the parts that are largely complained about. So it would end up being something like “Drop a smokescreen (3 second duration, recharge 30 seconds) when hit below 25% health. Reduce the recharge of deception skills.” The main complaints I’ve seen is that people don’t like the autoproc stealth and concealed defeat actually reveals where you are. Why not combine aspects of both into a skill that could be useful instead of a liability. CiS could still be moved back down to master tier.

You might be right about Daredevil being harder to sustain than other elite specs, but I was playing DA/CS/Trick S/D before HoT so my baseline is a little weird on that. Fighting dragon hunters is the only thing that makes me want to slam my head into the keyboard. Feels like it has a little more sustain and a little less damage with DA/Trick/Dare.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

The most common way in which games balance high mobility classes with high burst damage is through opportunity cost and long duration disables. You can be anywhere on the map, but you cannot be in two places at the same time. You can use your skills to get away, but not if they are disabled.

So Anet can do things like increase their survivability, but make them weak to long duration disables (which, with the change to shadow’s embrace and increased cooldown on withdraw, they already are: and I feel were good changes) and longer cooldown times on their skills – initiative or actual timers.

Some ideas: Increase their survivability (by ether reducing all other sources of damage in the game with a focus on aoe cleave damage, or some magic buff to thief), but remove/reduce the 20% cooldown reduction on slight of hand, or decrease all range on weapon-based teleports. Remove virtually all revealed skills in the game – or make them have significantly high opportunity costs to take them – and make a thief’s ability to go into stealth more easily cc’ed (remove the projectile finisher on black powder shot – for example). They could also revert the initiative recharge rate back to its original rate, and make 15 initiative the baseline on thieves. If thieves want faster initiative recharge, some changes to the acrobatics line would be perfect for it.

It would probably be healthier for the game if thief didn’t need slight of hand to even function (increase their survivability), and increase their opportunity costs as well.

There are other issues as well: Panic strike, while not as bad as incendiary ammo as a trait (since you know you will proc it at 50% health), is a pretty poorly designed trait. Crit strikes line is significantly lacking, and some thieves simply don’t like to run with shadow arts (but feel they can’t run anything else) because its overly dependent on stealth.

Acrobatics line was completely gutted with the trait changes too. It would be nice to see the acrobatics line buffed with initiative gain focus and a buff to dodge capability – but that’s hard to do now with daredevil in the game.

I think yall just have to experiment with more builds.

senki.1046:

Anet please read the forums. Just play thief yourself and then you will agree that thief sucks. Ok anet?

Seriously are u serious? The biggest threat ive encountered so far in pvp is THIEF! jesus christ some ppl.

Balerios.3679:

Seriously are u serious? The biggest threat ive encountered so far in pvp is THIEF! jesus christ some ppl.

So you’re new to pvp/this game then?

Cat Has Ducks,
The easy way to start balancing things like stealth is to remove it from everything in the game except the thief so that they can balance it according to it’s utility on the thief class. Now I don’t believe that can happen because of how many mesmers and trapper anythings are running stealth builds unless they wanted it to be a new feature pack change. That’s the first step, after that then you have to either remove all passive low hp invulns from the game or provide thief with an equivalent low hp defense that provides INVULN not just stealth.

Then you have to dive into cd’s and weapon skills which are a whole other set of problems that need work from someone who knows how it will affect the entire class and the meta.

What is there to fix?
The only thing this class is good at is stealing your kitten and running. I mean isn’t that what thieves do?

Thieves needs to stay in shadow-

get it?

hhahah thats was funny!Devs will start to consider fixing thieves after next ESL when it will be less picked class than warrior. AOe dmg scale with hot went out the charts so REZBOTS cant REZZ anymore with all this nuke. They had to see 2x Rev stacking boons on Reaper to consider fixing blighter boon. It feels like game is going to be balanced around 5v5 high end pvp so if you are still learning and dont have full 5 stack, we have 2 other gamemodes for you.