Guild Wars 2

nearlight.3064:

The main thing that needs to be nerfed is ring of fire. Before that skill was fine. You wouldn’t be totally kittened over from having to go though it. Now with 3 stacks of burning every time you go through it, its absolutely insane damage. Why doesn’t flamewall from the focus apply a similar amount of burning stacks when people walk through it. I mean its much easier to not have to walk through, but it does much less damage.

If they made ring of fire apply just one stack of burning, it would be fine.

are you sure though?
what about drakes breath which is spammable and has very low skill requiriments to use?RIng of fire seems like what heavy burning abilities should be.You dont burn initially and your enemy has all the time of the world to decide how he is gonna spend his resources so he doesnt get burnt by it at all
Thats what n4 and n5 abilities should be imho.Big impactfull and counterable.Not something that you ignore like rof before patch.

BlackBeard.2873:

style.6173:

I think pretty much everyone who isn’t a dd ele or Mesmer know that both of those specs need a nerf.

Only the delusional mesmers and eles won’t admit it. D/D needs a nerf, but they also need to REALLY address water/arcana being OP but ele being worthless without it. The new spec system provides great structure for promoting build diversity, but when you only make changes bi-yearly you will NEVER reach a point where people are using a wide variety of specs. Even within individual tiers, there are many clear “winners” that far over-shadow the other 2 options.

Tell me which part of Water and Arcana line is OP.

Water line is exactly the same before the patch minus the healing power and soothing ice is on 20s CD then 8s (yes it has frost armor but I rather have 8s cleanse then 20s frost armor). But remember the times Cleansing Water is on 10s ICD, Ele was completely out of meta and joke of a class.

Arcana might be a tick OP now with Elemental Contingency, specially retaliation in Fire, it was joke trait as GM but little bit OP as minor, I will make its ICD global instead of per attunement then it will be fine I think.

And don’t joke yourself the problem with D/D ele is when it applies more then 3 stacks of burning, it should not able to do that.

nearlight.3064:

The main thing that needs to be nerfed is ring of fire. Before that skill was fine. You wouldn’t be totally kittened over from having to go though it. Now with 3 stacks of burning every time you go through it, its absolutely insane damage. Why doesn’t flamewall from the focus apply a similar amount of burning stacks when people walk through it. I mean its much easier to not have to walk through, but it does much less damage.

If they made ring of fire apply just one stack of burning, it would be fine.

How is it ele’s fault or anyone else’s,if you keep going through Ring Of Fire ??!?!?!?!? It has radius of 240,giving you plenty of space to move inside it. You can even dodge inside it,if you are melee class. If you are ranged class,then keep the kittening range. Even if ele closes on you,puts Ring Of fire around you, go once outside of it,if you really need to and don’t go back in…problem solved.
Static field has radius of 180 (now maybe 240 ?,) and you can also move freely inside it. Are you gonna cry,that you get shocked/stunned every time you wanna get out or in of Static Field. This is purely l2p thing,if you keep going in and out of Ring Of Fire.

If you were to grade Mantra Mesmer on conquest attributes like in this thread → https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Poll-Vote-Grading-Meta-Builds/first#post5311312

It would look something like this:

Mantra Shatter

• Physical DPS: (A) – Still great bursting due to Power Block/Distraction
• Condi DPS: (C-) – It’s there but not too useful
• Control: (A++) – None projectile insta-hitting no animation always on demand
• Mobility: (A+) – If you know how to use Portal Entre for team rotations
• Disengagement: (A) – Second only to SA Thief
• Sustain vs. Physical: (B+) – OP due to breakers/disengage/insta CCs/too much heal
• Sustain vs. Condi: (B+) – Condi cleanse on every shatter along with the above
• Team Support Synergy: (A) – Frequent hard AoE heals/stealths and insta CCs, enjoy
• Effectiveness as Primary Engager: (A+) DD Ele & Mantras = Superman & Batman
• Effectiveness as Point Holder/Bunker: (B-) B only because stealth forfeits points
• Effectiveness as Peeler +1’er: (A) Rivaled only other Mesmers and Thieves

It’s just grossly OP attributes in contrast to other archetypes

Empty Sky.6354:

nearlight.3064:

The main thing that needs to be nerfed is ring of fire. Before that skill was fine. You wouldn’t be totally kittened over from having to go though it. Now with 3 stacks of burning every time you go through it, its absolutely insane damage. Why doesn’t flamewall from the focus apply a similar amount of burning stacks when people walk through it. I mean its much easier to not have to walk through, but it does much less damage.

If they made ring of fire apply just one stack of burning, it would be fine.

How is it ele’s fault or anyone else’s,if you keep going through Ring Of Fire ??!?!?!?!? It has radius of 240,giving you plenty of space to move inside it. You can even dodge inside it,if you are melee class. If you are ranged class,then keep the kittening range. Even if ele closes on you,puts Ring Of fire around you, go once outside of it,if you really need to and don’t go back in…problem solved.
Static field has radius of 180 (now maybe 240 ?,) and you can also move freely inside it. Are you gonna cry,that you get shocked/stunned every time you wanna get out or in of Static Field. This is purely l2p thing,if you keep going in and out of Ring Of Fire.

What I mean is I don’t understand how flamewall on focus stacks burning so kittenty in comparison.

If it were 2 stacks it would be fine.

And if you stay inside the fire ring the Ele will kitten you up with his earth skills.

Although I guess it’s fine if it doesn’t get changed, since with strafing and plague signet I can easily put 11 stacks back on that Ele by the time he leaves water attunement.

Ele’s burning doesn’t need nerfing, what needs nerfing is burning in general, the damage stacks way to high, as a zerker ele I can still reach 2.5k burn ticks, without trying, yes it isn’t my fault they eat my whole fire attunment burst, and they could avoid it, but the burn still shouldn’t tick so high, makes me feel dirty XD!

I’ve had good engis bait my cleanses then nuke me with burn ticks for 8k in wvw, luckily yet to come across that in pvp, but yer, 3ticks of a condi should not eat 24khp, so no don’t nerf ele..nerf burning…

Nova Stiker.8396:

Short Answer: No.

Long answer: It takes 1 person to kill a D/D ele unless they are really good. Bring chill or just don’t fight it, rotate elsewhere. 99% of D/D ele’s cannot kill anything anyways, just watch out for the few good elementalist players. If you are being kited as a Warrior in Rampage LOLWUT then you should…
…
How?

Why? So they can cleanse it instantly?

Nova Stiker.8396:

Short Answer: No.

Long answer: It takes 1 person to kill a D/D ele unless they are really good. Bring chill or just don’t fight it, rotate elsewhere. 99% of D/D ele’s cannot kill anything anyways, just watch out for the few good elementalist players.

look, these fake statistics from pubs are really annoying. Nobody cares what goes on in low skill matches, you’re just rolling the dice to see which team is less garbage. ELE is clearly strong in pro matches, and although I don’t like linearly nerfing classes or something but they are the strongest teamfighting class and the second strongest 1v1 class.

In the kitten ed least, they should be required to spec to one or the other

“bring chill or rotate.” Sounds perfectly balanced to me boss(lol?), but you forgot to mention you have to rotate from the teamfight if they show up to that as well.

Things that can beat d/d ele 1v1

Signet necro.
Pu Mesmer
Good lb rangers
Good trapper rangers
rampage warrior if they chain knockdown

things that can stalemate a d/d cele
bunker guard
another d/d cele
High condi removal rangers

Things that die to me most of the time

thief
engi
medi guard
anyone who stands on my ring of fire

posthumecaver.6473:

Tell me which part of Water and Arcana line is OP.

Water line is exactly the same before the patch minus the healing power and soothing ice is on 20s CD then 8s (yes it has frost armor but I rather have 8s cleanse then 20s frost armor). But remember the times Cleansing Water is on 10s ICD, Ele was completely out of meta and joke of a class.

Arcana might be a tick OP now with Elemental Contingency, specially retaliation in Fire, it was joke trait as GM but little bit OP as minor, I will make its ICD global instead of per attunement then it will be fine I think.

And don’t joke yourself the problem with D/D ele is when it applies more then 3 stacks of burning, it should not able to do that.

Water/arcana is OP because:
- All the heals stacked together. Being able to heal for 50% every ~10s with no counterplay (they are instant, and you can’t interrupt water-swap or water dodge with evasive arcana). They recently buffed the heal from evasive arcana in water in pvp (or rather un-nerfed, b/c it was very OP before they realized that ele healing needed a shave).
- All the condi cleanse is honestly just too much, especially because it is shared aoe mostly. They put all the cleanse in water, and you can basically keep yourself condi-free because of it.
- All the protection. Between elemental attunement and elemental contingency, you have enough to ensure nearly perma-protection. That is honestly just too much, and doesn’t leave enough time when you are vulnerable to opponents.
- Soothing Disruption is now too good with cantrips and cleansing water, as 20% CD reduction AND regen/vigor for one trait is just a bit over-budget.

As it is, water/arcana embodies nearly all of the survival capability of the ele, and even more, most of that survival is SHARED with nearby friends, so stacking multiple eles becomes better than alternatives. Some of the survival should be moved OFF the traits and onto weapon-skills and utilities to allow more counterplay, while also making it less necessary to just take water/arcana (because they are just so darned strong).

Taking water/arcana makes ele one of the best 1v1 classes, and because all of that self-survival lacks a lot of counterplay and is shared, they scale incredibly well with groups too.

Yes, burning needs a shave, but so does the survival from arcana/water too (even if they move some of to other places).

BlackBeard.2873:

Water/arcana is OP because:
- All the heals stacked together. Being able to heal for 50% every ~10s

Anyone else see the problem with this math?

FrownyClown.8402:

Things that can beat d/d ele 1v1

Pu Mesmer
Good lb rangers
Good trapper rangers

in your wildest fantasies….lol.

I used control f and typed in the word “mesmer”. The word “mesmer” is used 30 times in an ele thread.

Seriously?

In the new patch our healing power got reduced from 739 to 560 despite the increase in Celestial stats. We also lost about 1,100 HP. We lost the overlap of toughness and some Soothing Mist uptime through lingering attunement. Our boon duration got decreased by 20%. The meta (Fire) line means that we lose out on a lot of protection uptime from the Adept Earth line and we are STILL the only class without a useful combat elite.

Elementalist has no other strong builds. Fresh Air is simply outclassed in terms of surviability, mobility and damage by Thief/Mesmer. A full support/bunker Staff is outclassed by Bunker Guardian. Our ONLY viable role is as a bruiser/fighter. But no, lets cry and nerf DD Ele because cleansing our conditions is too hard apparently.

BlackBeard.2873:

posthumecaver.6473:

Tell me which part of Water and Arcana line is OP.

Water line is exactly the same before the patch minus the healing power and soothing ice is on 20s CD then 8s (yes it has frost armor but I rather have 8s cleanse then 20s frost armor). But remember the times Cleansing Water is on 10s ICD, Ele was completely out of meta and joke of a class.

Arcana might be a tick OP now with Elemental Contingency, specially retaliation in Fire, it was joke trait as GM but little bit OP as minor, I will make its ICD global instead of per attunement then it will be fine I think.

And don’t joke yourself the problem with D/D ele is when it applies more then 3 stacks of burning, it should not able to do that.

Water/arcana is OP because:
- All the heals stacked together. Being able to heal for 50% every ~10s with no counterplay (they are instant, and you can’t interrupt water-swap or water dodge with evasive arcana). They recently buffed the heal from evasive arcana in water in pvp (or rather un-nerfed, b/c it was very OP before they realized that ele healing needed a shave).
- All the condi cleanse is honestly just too much, especially because it is shared aoe mostly. They put all the cleanse in water, and you can basically keep yourself condi-free because of it.
- All the protection. Between elemental attunement and elemental contingency, you have enough to ensure nearly perma-protection. That is honestly just too much, and doesn’t leave enough time when you are vulnerable to opponents.
- Soothing Disruption is now too good with cantrips and cleansing water, as 20% CD reduction AND regen/vigor for one trait is just a bit over-budget.

As it is, water/arcana embodies nearly all of the survival capability of the ele, and even more, most of that survival is SHARED with nearby friends, so stacking multiple eles becomes better than alternatives. Some of the survival should be moved OFF the traits and onto weapon-skills and utilities to allow more counterplay, while also making it less necessary to just take water/arcana (because they are just so darned strong).

Taking water/arcana makes ele one of the best 1v1 classes, and because all of that self-survival lacks a lot of counterplay and is shared, they scale incredibly well with groups too.

Yes, burning needs a shave, but so does the survival from arcana/water too (even if they move some of to other places).

Oh stop it,because tears are real. Water/Arcana line are mandatory(which gives eles only 1 real choice of 3rd trait line) and are making eles viable in pvp. And they are pretty much the same as before with some changes of course,because all classes went through changes. All classes got some merged traits,so stop with your tears
What your problem is,that you don’t know,how to beat ele I guess. And now with full 3 trait lines (which every class has),your tears are even bigger.
Go play ele with Fire/Air/Earth ,berserker amulet(11k hp) and sigils other than energy and without heal signet. Let’s see,how long you’ll last. Or even Fire/Air/Arcana…or Fire/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Arcana
Evasive Arcana has 10s cd,so it’s not like,you dodge 2x in Water and get heal both times from dodging. Cone Of Cold can be interupted.
You can’t interupt thieves’ Withdraw or warriors signet heal,guards’ block heal,etc.. Are you gonna cry about those as well?
Burning is problem on all classes,not just ele. Yes I said it before,nerf burning.
And ele builds it’s dmg over time. You won’t be 1 shoted from eles at start of fight,unlike some classes.

Community needs to learn and adapt to classes having all 3 full trait lines. Water/Arcana line are pretty much the same as before. Sure traits got merged,some traits shifted,but at the end of the day,they do pretty much the same they did before.

There should be a rule for complaining: you must FIRST play the profession you are going to complain about a good time before even thinking about how OP it is.

For example, I have a warrior, an hell rampage IS closing OPedness, but playing the class I know that in every other regard the class is mostly outplayed. So what would make seem the class as OP is just an illusion. And while rampage should be tunned down a little (not much, I like the idea of elites being game-changing), MANY other things should be tuned up.

I’m sure most of these people begging for an arcana and water nerf don’t play elementalist, so both sides of this argument are very biased to one side.
I play dagger dagger elementalist, simply because when I started playing it, it wasn’t the meta, and I found it to be fun. Now nothing else is viable in pvp.
I don’t understand these problems with D/D ele people have with the less expierenced players, the pro players are more complex because it is quite possible that no matter what the pro player is using, you can’t deal with them anyway, because they are better than you. If they are good at the game they will kill you no matter what, tbh you probably don’t have a chance in some instances..
D/D ele doesn’t even have the best survivability. Trap and beastmaster ranger are able to 3v1 easily, and I don’t even hear anyone complaining about them.
Water and arcana are mandatory for elementalist. This actually sickens me, and I’m grateful that on thief (Which I main) I only have one mandatory trait line.
And honestly, whenever I see a dagger dagger ele I laugh, as I beat them 80% of the time. I’m not especially good, it is just that everything they do is so predictable, that I know exactly what they plan to do, if you aren’t able to beat the low/medium skill dd eles you need to pay attention to what they do.
Here is a bit of the rotation:
1. Air- Ride the Lightning, Updraft and lightning aura(Before or after upraft)
2. Fire-Burning speed, Drake’s breath(Not all the time), Fire grab(Only if in melee, then ring of fire
3. Earth- Earthquake, and churning earth.
The easiest way to counter this is to stay out of the ring of fire. This messes everything up and as since you aren’t near that fire field, they have wasted several important cooldowns. Now, they will either leave the fire field to attack, or continue to waste cooldowns in the fire field (this will make their situation much, much worse), the expierenced players won’t do this, or they’ll do it much faster.
Dagger Dagger elementalist, much like mesmers right now are being complained about because people don’t know how to counter it, but honestly everything has a counter, everything has a major weakness, you just have to find it.
Honestly I like the sound of this, this will make players think more about the way they play and see other people play, and it will turn pvp into a place where people actually think about playing strategically.
As for burning being a problem for ele, that is a L2P issue. Elementalists, have such a slow build up for burning, compared to guard and engineer, really there shouldn’t be anything on you. On dagger dagger ele burning only comes easy with burning speed. Cleansing fire works for all elementalists, and actually, focus and scepter are probably better for burning down within a quick amount of time.
And gosh, why is every community about pvp so narrow minded about buffing and nerfing? Hasn’t it occurred to you that maybe, the other classes need buffs? I mean, logically, if you want your class to be buffed because of another class, people won’t be as opposed because you aren’t asking for a nerf against their class.
Currently, thief and elementalist, have gotten all of their other builds nerfed to all hell. D/P being the only good melee left for thief (D/D teef is almost there) and D/D being the only viable pvp weaponset left for elementalist.
People need to experiment. I saw a warrior who was able to nuke me down by hitting me with 8k damage, constantly. I asked him for his build and he told me that he couldn’t explain cause it wasn’t a meta build. Build for your needs, not the needs of the person who made up all these meta builds. For example; On engineer I run a variant on bomb/nade build, that takes down nearly any melee builds (Besides ranger bunker builds, holy crap, so many evades.), I have a build that matches my playstyle the best, and it payed off.
Yes, it’s true, not every class can conquer these mesmers and elementalists, but think in the other direction and see what is wrong with your class.

Timiok.1048:

I’m sure most of these people begging for an arcana and water nerf don’t play elementalist, so both sides of this argument are very biased to one side.
I play dagger dagger elementalist, simply because when I started playing it, it wasn’t the meta, and I found it to be fun. Now nothing else is viable in pvp.
I don’t understand these problems with D/D ele people have with the less expierenced players, the pro players are more complex because it is quite possible that no matter what the pro player is using, you can’t deal with them anyway, because they are better than you. If they are good at the game they will kill you no matter what, tbh you probably don’t have a chance in some instances..
D/D ele doesn’t even have the best survivability. Trap and beastmaster ranger are able to 3v1 easily, and I don’t even hear anyone complaining about them.
Water and arcana are mandatory for elementalist. This actually sickens me, and I’m grateful that on thief (Which I main) I only have one mandatory trait line.
And honestly, whenever I see a dagger dagger ele I laugh, as I beat them 80% of the time. I’m not especially good, it is just that everything they do is so predictable, that I know exactly what they plan to do, if you aren’t able to beat the low/medium skill dd eles you need to pay attention to what they do.
Here is a bit of the rotation:
1. Air- Ride the Lightning, Updraft and lightning aura(Before or after upraft)
2. Fire-Burning speed, Drake’s breath(Not all the time), Fire grab(Only if in melee, then ring of fire
3. Earth- Earthquake, and churning earth.
The easiest way to counter this is to stay out of the ring of fire. This messes everything up and as since you aren’t near that fire field, they have wasted several important cooldowns. Now, they will either leave the fire field to attack, or continue to waste cooldowns in the fire field (this will make their situation much, much worse), the expierenced players won’t do this, or they’ll do it much faster.
Dagger Dagger elementalist, much like mesmers right now are being complained about because people don’t know how to counter it, but honestly everything has a counter, everything has a major weakness, you just have to find it.
Honestly I like the sound of this, this will make players think more about the way they play and see other people play, and it will turn pvp into a place where people actually think about playing strategically.
As for burning being a problem for ele, that is a L2P issue. Elementalists, have such a slow build up for burning, compared to guard and engineer, really there shouldn’t be anything on you. On dagger dagger ele burning only comes easy with burning speed. Cleansing fire works for all elementalists, and actually, focus and scepter are probably better for burning down within a quick amount of time.
And gosh, why is every community about pvp so narrow minded about buffing and nerfing? Hasn’t it occurred to you that maybe, the other classes need buffs? I mean, logically, if you want your class to be buffed because of another class, people won’t be as opposed because you aren’t asking for a nerf against their class.
Currently, thief and elementalist, have gotten all of their other builds nerfed to all hell. D/P being the only good melee left for thief (D/D teef is almost there) and D/D being the only viable pvp weaponset left for elementalist.
People need to experiment. I saw a warrior who was able to nuke me down by hitting me with 8k damage, constantly. I asked him for his build and he told me that he couldn’t explain cause it wasn’t a meta build. Build for your needs, not the needs of the person who made up all these meta builds. For example; On engineer I run a variant on bomb/nade build, that takes down nearly any melee builds (Besides ranger bunker builds, holy crap, so many evades.), I have a build that matches my playstyle the best, and it payed off.
Yes, it’s true, not every class can conquer these mesmers and elementalists, but think in the other direction and see what is wrong with your class.

I understand where your’e coming from but objectively I’d say its much easier for them to nerf one or two classes instead of buffing all other classes to fix unbalance.

Also wow this thread blew up!

Take all the useless water traits move them to adept or master and take all the good traits and push them to grand master. Now Ele is fixed and can no longer out bunk you.
(do the same for arcane). But please don’t cry for ele to get nerfed until mesmer does. Just being fair.

Nomad.5204:

I understand where your’e coming from but objectively I’d say its much easier for them to nerf one or two classes instead of buffing all other classes to fix unbalance.

Also wow this thread blew up!

I think I kind of presented my argument incorrectly. I do agree that elementalist needs a rebalance, like now. I even made a thread in elementalist forums dealing with all of the balance problems. However elementalist should be balanced not nerfed. We don’t want to make it useless, we want to add build diversity and add reasons to use other weapon sets and traits. Currently d/d ele has everything good about it. Tanky, plenty of heals, mobility, and good damage. This isn’t good however because elementalist gets some of these things without really speccing for it, and no build should be this powerful without requiring good amounts of skill.
So elementalist still needs to be ’nerfed

Zelulose.8695:

Take all the useless water traits move them to adept or master and take all the good traits and push them to grand master. Now Ele is fixed and can no longer out bunk you.
(do the same for arcane). But please don’t cry for ele to get nerfed until mesmer does. Just being fair.

This is quite a crude idea and it isn’t something Anet would do under any circumstances.
In theory this would work, but there is a certain sequence for traits that would be clumsy and disorganized compared to other trait lines and changing this trait lines too would turn elementalist from over powered to useless. For example, the minor traits have something to do with auras, and granting a certain boon(s) with a cantrip. Second of all it isn’t very nice to the builds that don’t use dagger dagger and it is something I know Anet wouldn’t do because it goes against the whole concept of minor major and master traits. It would be irrational for them to make all the bad traits go in place of the good traits. And the ‘good traits’ are good in different aspects. The healing grandmaster is worthy of a grandmaster because in pve it has such a significant heal boost. It would be ridiculously overpowered to make it a minor trait simply because it is not as good in PvP.

Empty Sky.6354:

Oh stop it,because tears are real. Water/Arcana line are mandatory(which gives eles only 1 real choice of 3rd trait line) and are making eles viable in pvp. And they are pretty much the same as before with some changes of course,because all classes went through changes. All classes got some merged traits,so stop with your tears
What your problem is,that you don’t know,how to beat ele I guess. And now with full 3 trait lines (which every class has),your tears are even bigger.
Go play ele with Fire/Air/Earth ,berserker amulet(11k hp) and sigils other than energy and without heal signet. Let’s see,how long you’ll last. Or even Fire/Air/Arcana…or Fire/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Arcana
Evasive Arcana has 10s cd,so it’s not like,you dodge 2x in Water and get heal both times from dodging. Cone Of Cold can be interupted.
You can’t interupt thieves’ Withdraw or warriors signet heal,guards’ block heal,etc.. Are you gonna cry about those as well?
Burning is problem on all classes,not just ele. Yes I said it before,nerf burning.
And ele builds it’s dmg over time. You won’t be 1 shoted from eles at start of fight,unlike some classes.

Community needs to learn and adapt to classes having all 3 full trait lines. Water/Arcana line are pretty much the same as before. Sure traits got merged,some traits shifted,but at the end of the day,they do pretty much the same they did before.

Hahaha, I am not crying. Check my post history, I have mained ele for over 2 years, but I can admit when they have aspects that are OP. I am giving my honest opinion about the power-level of the class.

I also never said “hey, lets nerf it into the ground.” I laid out very clear and logical reasoning why having all the sustain tied to traits that lack counters are a bad thing, and provided suggestions to both tweak eles power AND break the reliance on arcana. Please take a minute from raging and actually read the words written.

You even complain that berserker ele isn’t viable, which is EXACLTY the kind of thing my suggestion tries to address. If the class wasn’t given so much rotational (i.e. trait-based) sustain, you could have strong defensive skills/utilities on a shorter CD, which would open up a dps role potentially. Unlike most other classes that are played optimally by using skills in no particular order, optimal ele play actually involves sticking very close to a general rotation, which is honestly kind of dumb, imo.

In regards to other non-interruptible heals, I HAVE SUGGESTED THEY BE GIVEN A CAST TIME, specifically for withdraw and healing turret! Healing signet is countered by poison, but the others aren’t really, and that is TERRIBLE design! TOO MANY THINGS IN THIS GAME LACK COUNTERPLAY, AND THAT IS WHY PVP IS DYING!

I understand you are playing ele and think everyone just wants to nerf the class into the ground, thus getting defensive. However, if you actually try to play other classes, you will find that the defensive/healing capability IS OP. High sustain is needed to play a bruiser role, but currently the sustain is just a bit too high, to the point that it is good vs. both burst AND sustained dps. There is a reason they nerfed the heal on evasive arcana 2+ years ago, along with some other adjustments. While nerfing cleansing water went too far, and they were right to un-nerf it, the class is now in a state where it has too much sustain when water/arcana, and even has added power due to small buffs added when they made the class “crap-tier” (For reference, burning speed didn’t used to evade, and frozen blast didn’t blast).

vox.9027:

Seriously?

In the new patch our healing power got reduced from 739 to 560 despite the increase in Celestial stats. We also lost about 1,100 HP. We lost the overlap of toughness and some Soothing Mist uptime through lingering attunement. Our boon duration got decreased by 20%. The meta (Fire) line means that we lose out on a lot of protection uptime from the Adept Earth line and we are STILL the only class without a useful combat elite.

Elementalist has no other strong builds. Fresh Air is simply outclassed in terms of surviability, mobility and damage by Thief/Mesmer. A full support/bunker Staff is outclassed by Bunker Guardian. Our ONLY viable role is as a bruiser/fighter. But no, lets cry and nerf DD Ele because cleansing our conditions is too hard apparently.

If a class is too strong no matter how limited your remaining options are the community will speak up. I am not saying ele nerds a nerf into the ground. I am not saying it’s the most op build we have ever seen. What I am saying is no one can or will pity you while you stand on top. Furthermore almost every other class is having the same issues now with build diversity down. The difference between them and ele? Who is winning fights consistently.

We all know what people need to do play DD ele and see if you can get the same results and if you are DD ele, Mesmer, etc, play another class and see if you win consistently. Balance will not come over night but the best way to counter the fotm build is to play it and see what actually counters it. For defenders see it from the other players perspective so play the other class.

Nonetheless nothing will change til Anet says so and that could take months. If you do not like the current situation be vocal or better yet quit for a while. This is not some veiled insult not logging in or spending money on this game has an effect.

Ran into an FA ele today. He blew up a D/P thief to 0 from 100% before he could even Heart Seeker through his smoke field. He also typically just team fighted and avoided 1v1ing whenever possible and made sure to rotate to fight where he had a teammate to back him up.

I would call FA ele OP as kitten, he melted anyone from 100% nearly instantly and whenever he was focused our team peeled him out before his Obsidian Fleshed ended.

So many builds trying to be just as effective in 1v1’s as they are 5v5’s. You scrubs would be amazed scrubs how deadly some builds are when you play to a role instead of trying to play for every situation.
Just because you lost a 1v1 doesn’t mean it won’t be amazing in a team fight.

“D/D ele is not op cause you can still kill noob eles”

“I don’t have issues with random eles in hotjoin/ranked/unranked”

Let me tell you this:

In high level pvp, not hotjoin, not unranked and so on, where people know how to properly play their classes, nothing in the actual meta (Except shatter mesmer that can’t fight on point anyway) can safely 1v1 a celestial d/d ele on point (While on the other hand, he can 1v1 pretty much everything ofc)….not even war in rampage would probably kill him cause he can just dodge until he’s out of endurance, kite around another 6 seconds until rampage is over then come back and win while point is still neutral cause a war, even in rampage, will never catch a d/d if he starts to kite. Outside war in rampage and shatter mes for anything else it’s just a pointless fight…if someone still thinks d/d is easy to kill and want to prove it just give me a link to a top team’s esl match where someone easily kills a celestial d/d 1v1 on point…until that hotjoin/unranked/whatever personal experience vs braindead eles proves absolutely nothing. Everyone can kill noob eles (Still usually need to be way more skilled then them but considering avg ranked/unranked eles it’s not that hard) but balance is not made around ppl who don’t know how to play…if you want to talk about balance you must look at those playing class/spec at his full potential and celestial d/d at full potential is the most broken thing in pvp since 1 year ago. Pretty much everyone knows that

If you want to prove cele d/d is counterable just go 1v1 with denshee on your point, kill him without losing cap, upload on youtube and post it here. Pointless bla bla is worth nothing.

Elementalist will be overpowered both in pve and pvp always i think, anet luvz them too much.

Tbh, I think anet needs to start solidifying class roles. If an ele wants to bunk, they should be able to bunk/support/CC without DPS. I mean, this issue exists in a similar capacity with meditation guardian, except they’re usually locked down into direct damage with little CC options, which is manageable. You either specialize or become a generalist to the extreme. Such a basic concept, but I believe an experienced player/anet need to come in and finally set the forums straight.

D/D might stacking doesn’t need a nerf, and why are you complaining about elementalist fire stacking when only ONE skill that inflicts burning is hard to dodge?(Burning speed) Drakes breath can’t be completely dodged all the time but one dodge is enough to put of most of that burning, ring of fire is a static aoe. If you can’t stay out of that, then that’s your fault. Ring of fire is perfectly fine with the amount of stacking it has. Why are you complaining about elementalists being able to stack up fire damage, when engineers and guardians have far more fire damage? Seriously in engineer you can run a full incineration build, there are so many fire fields and fire uptimes.
The might stacking process can be interrupted quite easily, and that in turn will stop the burning from being so strong. I don’t like to say that it is a L2P issue but some of these complaints aren’t warranted to be honest.
I would understand people complaining about how elementalist has really good survival but the burning damage doesn’t have to do with elementalist only, it’s really a problem with the condition itself.
Water , earth and Arcane are good trait lines, fundamentally. People who think nerfing the good trait lines will make elementalist a more rational class in PvP need to rethink.
Arcane, is an ideal trait line, I think that people will take it no matter what because it is just a fun trait line. This is similar to thief with the trickery trait line, the extra 3 initiative makes ANY build better. Some classes just have this, and taking things like this away isn’t exactly the solution. Water, is also a good trait line, however the healing power needs to be balanced in a way that would not make earth obsolete. Currently, you can just heal to survive, you don’t need much toughness because a lot of it is baseline now. They should lower the toughness on elementalist or vitality so that earth will be more viable. Currently fire and air are quit specific trait lines, because they can only really be useful for certain weapons. Fire is pretty much a might stacking trait line, which isn’t good for staff users at all because staff lacks a lot of blasting capabilities. Air is really just useless, and it’s last use was really for S/F fresh air which I say was a good build because it was a true glass cannon, every build should have a perk, Tanky, lots of heals, good damage and armor, and builds like dd ele should be a ‘little bit of everything’ build, but now it is an a lot of everything build, which is our problem here.
Elementalist does not need:
Trait nerfs
Might stacking nerfs
Weapon skill nerfs
Elementalist does need:
A tone down in toughness if you don’t go into earth trait line
For fire to be less might stacking oriented, might stacking is easy enough, and the might stacking traits aren’t all needed.
Buffs to air and earth trait lines to make them more appealing,

BlackBeard.2873:

Empty Sky.6354:

Oh stop it,because tears are real. Water/Arcana line are mandatory(which gives eles only 1 real choice of 3rd trait line) and are making eles viable in pvp. And they are pretty much the same as before with some changes of course,because all classes went through changes. All classes got some merged traits,so stop with your tears
What your problem is,that you don’t know,how to beat ele I guess. And now with full 3 trait lines (which every class has),your tears are even bigger.
Go play ele with Fire/Air/Earth ,berserker amulet(11k hp) and sigils other than energy and without heal signet. Let’s see,how long you’ll last. Or even Fire/Air/Arcana…or Fire/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Arcana
Evasive Arcana has 10s cd,so it’s not like,you dodge 2x in Water and get heal both times from dodging. Cone Of Cold can be interupted.
You can’t interupt thieves’ Withdraw or warriors signet heal,guards’ block heal,etc.. Are you gonna cry about those as well?
Burning is problem on all classes,not just ele. Yes I said it before,nerf burning.
And ele builds it’s dmg over time. You won’t be 1 shoted from eles at start of fight,unlike some classes.

Community needs to learn and adapt to classes having all 3 full trait lines. Water/Arcana line are pretty much the same as before. Sure traits got merged,some traits shifted,but at the end of the day,they do pretty much the same they did before.

Hahaha, I am not crying. Check my post history, I have mained ele for over 2 years, but I can admit when they have aspects that are OP. I am giving my honest opinion about the power-level of the class.

I also never said “hey, lets nerf it into the ground.” I laid out very clear and logical reasoning why having all the sustain tied to traits that lack counters are a bad thing, and provided suggestions to both tweak eles power AND break the reliance on arcana. Please take a minute from raging and actually read the words written.

You even complain that berserker ele isn’t viable, which is EXACLTY the kind of thing my suggestion tries to address. If the class wasn’t given so much rotational (i.e. trait-based) sustain, you could have strong defensive skills/utilities on a shorter CD, which would open up a dps role potentially. Unlike most other classes that are played optimally by using skills in no particular order, optimal ele play actually involves sticking very close to a general rotation, which is honestly kind of dumb, imo.

In regards to other non-interruptible heals, I HAVE SUGGESTED THEY BE GIVEN A CAST TIME, specifically for withdraw and healing turret! Healing signet is countered by poison, but the others aren’t really, and that is TERRIBLE design! TOO MANY THINGS IN THIS GAME LACK COUNTERPLAY, AND THAT IS WHY PVP IS DYING!

I understand you are playing ele and think everyone just wants to nerf the class into the ground, thus getting defensive. However, if you actually try to play other classes, you will find that the defensive/healing capability IS OP. High sustain is needed to play a bruiser role, but currently the sustain is just a bit too high, to the point that it is good vs. both burst AND sustained dps. There is a reason they nerfed the heal on evasive arcana 2+ years ago, along with some other adjustments. While nerfing cleansing water went too far, and they were right to un-nerf it, the class is now in a state where it has too much sustain when water/arcana, and even has added power due to small buffs added when they made the class “crap-tier” (For reference, burning speed didn’t used to evade, and frozen blast didn’t blast).

My whole point of going berserker amulet,etc. was that you can’t play that. You are gonna go mandatory Arcana/Water,take healing signet,at least 2 Cantrips(but let’s be honest,usually all 3 cantrips are taken) and FGS. Amulet celestial and sigil energy (another must) and other of choice.
Again me saying,play without Energy Sigil,is that you can’t in this meta. People will count 1,2 dodge,and then you’re dead.
Eles can survive for long time,if they kite (and that has nothing to do with build…that is just people using brains and playing smart),but they can also die in matter of seconds,if focused properly and bursted down.
On d/d Cone of Cold can be interuped,so can #5 Cleansing Wave,it’d be dumb to put cast times on Evasive Arcana and when you swap to water…those are only 2 insta heals.

And I play other classes,just not that often. I am sucker for elements.

Empty Sky.6354:

BlackBeard.2873:

Empty Sky.6354:

Oh stop it,because tears are real. Water/Arcana line are mandatory(which gives eles only 1 real choice of 3rd trait line) and are making eles viable in pvp. And they are pretty much the same as before with some changes of course,because all classes went through changes. All classes got some merged traits,so stop with your tears
What your problem is,that you don’t know,how to beat ele I guess. And now with full 3 trait lines (which every class has),your tears are even bigger.
Go play ele with Fire/Air/Earth ,berserker amulet(11k hp) and sigils other than energy and without heal signet. Let’s see,how long you’ll last. Or even Fire/Air/Arcana…or Fire/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Water….or Earth/Air/Arcana
Evasive Arcana has 10s cd,so it’s not like,you dodge 2x in Water and get heal both times from dodging. Cone Of Cold can be interupted.
You can’t interupt thieves’ Withdraw or warriors signet heal,guards’ block heal,etc.. Are you gonna cry about those as well?
Burning is problem on all classes,not just ele. Yes I said it before,nerf burning.
And ele builds it’s dmg over time. You won’t be 1 shoted from eles at start of fight,unlike some classes.

Community needs to learn and adapt to classes having all 3 full trait lines. Water/Arcana line are pretty much the same as before. Sure traits got merged,some traits shifted,but at the end of the day,they do pretty much the same they did before.

Hahaha, I am not crying. Check my post history, I have mained ele for over 2 years, but I can admit when they have aspects that are OP. I am giving my honest opinion about the power-level of the class.

I also never said “hey, lets nerf it into the ground.” I laid out very clear and logical reasoning why having all the sustain tied to traits that lack counters are a bad thing, and provided suggestions to both tweak eles power AND break the reliance on arcana. Please take a minute from raging and actually read the words written.

You even complain that berserker ele isn’t viable, which is EXACLTY the kind of thing my suggestion tries to address. If the class wasn’t given so much rotational (i.e. trait-based) sustain, you could have strong defensive skills/utilities on a shorter CD, which would open up a dps role potentially. Unlike most other classes that are played optimally by using skills in no particular order, optimal ele play actually involves sticking very close to a general rotation, which is honestly kind of dumb, imo.

In regards to other non-interruptible heals, I HAVE SUGGESTED THEY BE GIVEN A CAST TIME, specifically for withdraw and healing turret! Healing signet is countered by poison, but the others aren’t really, and that is TERRIBLE design! TOO MANY THINGS IN THIS GAME LACK COUNTERPLAY, AND THAT IS WHY PVP IS DYING!

I understand you are playing ele and think everyone just wants to nerf the class into the ground, thus getting defensive. However, if you actually try to play other classes, you will find that the defensive/healing capability IS OP. High sustain is needed to play a bruiser role, but currently the sustain is just a bit too high, to the point that it is good vs. both burst AND sustained dps. There is a reason they nerfed the heal on evasive arcana 2+ years ago, along with some other adjustments. While nerfing cleansing water went too far, and they were right to un-nerf it, the class is now in a state where it has too much sustain when water/arcana, and even has added power due to small buffs added when they made the class “crap-tier” (For reference, burning speed didn’t used to evade, and frozen blast didn’t blast).

My whole point of going berserker amulet,etc. was that you can’t play that. You are gonna go mandatory Arcana/Water,take healing signet,at least 2 Cantrips(but let’s be honest,usually all 3 cantrips are taken) and FGS. Amulet celestial and sigil energy (another must) and other of choice.
Again me saying,play without Energy Sigil,is that you can’t in this meta. People will count 1,2 dodge,and then you’re dead.
Eles can survive for long time,if they kite (and that has nothing to do with build…that is just people using brains and playing smart),but they can also die in matter of seconds,if focused properly and bursted down.
On d/d Cone of Cold can be interuped,so can #5 Cleansing Wave,it’d be dumb to put cast times on Evasive Arcana and when you swap to water…those are only 2 insta heals.

And I play other classes,just not that often. I am sucker for elements.

keep in mind berserker amulet atm is unviable on any class

Dps specs go for marauder not berserker…and that’s exactly what fresh air eles do

The only thing about Ele’s burns being OP is their Ring of Fire.

• Forces people to stand still in it or not cross it.
• It’s on a 15s cd
• A 1/4 cast time means it’s not easily interrupted.
• If you run through it, you’re pretty much dead unless some one condi cleanse your mistake.

Considering Eles bring it out every 15s, it’s 2x more effective than Purging Flames on Guard considering PF can get interupted and its on a higher cd. Our PF is simply more outplayable than Ele’s.

Saiyan.1704:

The only thing about Ele’s burns being OP is their Ring of Fire.

• Forces people to stand still in it or not cross it.
• It’s on a 15s cd
• A 1/4 cast time means it’s not easily interrupted.
• If you run through it, you’re pretty much dead unless some one condi cleanse your mistake.

Considering Eles bring it out every 15s, it’s 2x more effective than Purging Flames on Guard considering PF can get interupted and its on a higher cd. Our PF is simply more outplayable than Ele’s.

No.

Archaon.9524:

keep in mind berserker amulet atm is unviable on any class

Dps specs go for marauder not berserker…and that’s exactly what fresh air eles do

Well,for soloq I see people taking berserker amulet on mesmers,which gives them 15k-ish hp. Have no idea,why eles get only 11k on it,since both are light armour. I know eles have lower hp pool,but 11k…come on.

Yeah marauder is now taken,because it’s new berserker amulet,but fresh air is different than d/d. In those high tier tournaments you don’t see any fresh air ele…Zoose used to run it,but nowdays it’s d/d. Which is kinda topic of this thread,people asking for nerfs on only viable class for spvp. Again burn needs nerfing on all classes,eles aren’t the only ones with burn.

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

The only thing about Ele’s burns being OP is their Ring of Fire.

• Forces people to stand still in it or not cross it.
• It’s on a 15s cd
• A 1/4 cast time means it’s not easily interrupted.
• If you run through it, you’re pretty much dead unless some one condi cleanse your mistake.

Considering Eles bring it out every 15s, it’s 2x more effective than Purging Flames on Guard considering PF can get interupted and its on a higher cd. Our PF is simply more outplayable than Ele’s.

No.

Yes.
I’ll go 1 step further and explain myself as to why. People see huge burn bursts from Ele but it’s almost always from entering and exiting Ring of Fire. It’s why people think they do insane burns but really, it’s that one skill doing all the work; applying 6 burn stacks instantly because they were running right when the Ele cast it on them.

Care to explain your “No” reply or do you not have an explanation?

Empty Sky.6354:

Again burn needs nerfing on all classes,eles aren’t the only ones with burn.

Burns don’t need a nerf on Guards. Burn Guards are hardly as viable in higher tier pvp.

Saiyan.1704:

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

The only thing about Ele’s burns being OP is their Ring of Fire.

• Forces people to stand still in it or not cross it.
• It’s on a 15s cd
• A 1/4 cast time means it’s not easily interrupted.
• If you run through it, you’re pretty much dead unless some one condi cleanse your mistake.

Considering Eles bring it out every 15s, it’s 2x more effective than Purging Flames on Guard considering PF can get interupted and its on a higher cd. Our PF is simply more outplayable than Ele’s.

No.

Yes.
I’ll go 1 step further and explain myself as to why. People see huge burn bursts from Ele but it’s almost always from entering and exiting Ring of Fire. It’s why people think they do insane burns but really, it’s that one skill doing all the work; applying 6 burn stacks instantly because they were running right when the Ele cast it on them.

Care to explain your “No” reply or do you not have an explanation?

Empty Sky.6354:

Again burn needs nerfing on all classes,eles aren’t the only ones with burn.

Burns don’t need a nerf on Guards. Burn Guards are hardly as viable in higher tier pvp.

No.

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

The only thing about Ele’s burns being OP is their Ring of Fire.

• Forces people to stand still in it or not cross it.
• It’s on a 15s cd
• A 1/4 cast time means it’s not easily interrupted.
• If you run through it, you’re pretty much dead unless some one condi cleanse your mistake.

Considering Eles bring it out every 15s, it’s 2x more effective than Purging Flames on Guard considering PF can get interupted and its on a higher cd. Our PF is simply more outplayable than Ele’s.

No.

Yes.
I’ll go 1 step further and explain myself as to why. People see huge burn bursts from Ele but it’s almost always from entering and exiting Ring of Fire. It’s why people think they do insane burns but really, it’s that one skill doing all the work; applying 6 burn stacks instantly because they were running right when the Ele cast it on them.

Care to explain your “No” reply or do you not have an explanation?

Empty Sky.6354:

Again burn needs nerfing on all classes,eles aren’t the only ones with burn.

Burns don’t need a nerf on Guards. Burn Guards are hardly as viable in higher tier pvp.

No.

The only burn I see living on is from cele ele because people keep walking in the fields conditions fell off big time and saying nerf burn on all classes when Dhuumfire is questionable and pretty much condi war,ranger,mesmer and even burn guard(in favor of bunker) are falling off is not the brightest idea.

Edit: It’s not a bright idea at all.

leave eles alone, all you have to do is focus them & they’re dead.

StickerHappy.8052:

Slininstien.7546:

To me this is more of a “how do I kill a DD ele” post than anything. Simply put, have a thief and a mesmer, or a necro. A thief/mesmer can combo to break an ele in under 10s if the thief can steal the stability off the ele and the mesmer will stack daze and burst. A necro is the best 1v1 counter to this ele build at the moment anyway.

Tbh a thief CAN 1v1 a DD ele, but it needs to be VERY smart when it bursts if it is SA and if it’s Crit strikes it needs to be very mindful of its dodges and what it’s dodging.

Otherwise I’m not entirely sure what guardian builds if any can beat an ele and such like that. So just coordinate with your ele/necro/thief/mesmer on the team or any combo of those and you’ll be fine.

So you need 2 or 3 classes to kill the ele? Wow. Seems Legit.

Gw2 balance wrapped up.

cele eles shouldn’t be able to faceroll 25 stacks of might and perma protection. I don’t even care about the burning much.

Celestial Signet Necromancer eats Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist for…

it does, this is very true. but still. you know. signet necro takes a lot of skill to play. honestly the ONLY one so far that ive seen handle the build well is nos himself, but I guess people will learn. not enough necros play it sadly. those who do are god-awful. which makes nos pretty unique atm.

mistsim.2748:

it does, this is very true. but still. you know. signet necro takes a lot of skill to play. honestly the ONLY one so far that ive seen handle the build well is nos himself, but I guess people will learn. not enough necros play it sadly. those who do are god-awful. which makes nos pretty unique atm.

Tbh the only thing I dislike about his build is SoV I just don’t find it’s worth for some reason. That’s the only thing I find “unique” about it based on my PvP experience he’s the only one running it “happily”.

another go4 final…10 players…4 eles…

but yeah ele is totally fine..

oh btw, there were 4 eles in semifinals too…

not even asking about dafq are devs doin….not anymore…they are not even answering a 4k views thread, as usual

Reduce might stacking to max of 10?

Yasha.5963:

Reduce might stacking to max of 10?

that would nerf every single spec…

pvp needs celestial eles to be nerfed…not everyone, cause after equally nerfing everything they still gonna sit on top spamming their crap and trolling everyone else all day long

Capping might stacking to 15 or 20 wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Stop with the might and cele nerfs suggestions other classes/specs use those too.

no other class can get 25 stacks of might that easily without help from allies. They could also get rid of the blast finisher in water.

Eles seem fine to me.

FrownyClown.8402:

no other class can get 25 stacks of might that easily without help from allies.

Celestial Signet Necromancer would like a word with you.