Guild Wars 2

You’re killing pvp. NOBODY enjoys being spammed with conditions, far more than what you can clear. Even when using elixir C as an engi I still have 3-4 condis the next second.

Do something please.

PS: I don’t even play engi btw, it’s an occasional alt and also an example.

You could say the same thing about damage. Once you heal, you will be getting hit again. The condition “issue” is further compounded by Warriors. You need to be able to stack a lot of conditions with them, because they never have them for long and outside of cooldowns.

Also, as an engie, you can just start giving some back. You can be tanky as you like whilst still putting out some nice damage yourself.

DaliIndica.9041:

You could say the same thing about damage. Once you heal, you will be getting hit again. The condition “issue” is further compounded by Warriors. You need to be able to stack a lot of conditions with them, because they never have them for long and outside of cooldowns.

Also, as an engie, you can just start giving some back. You can be tanky as you like whilst still putting out some nice damage yourself.

Yeah well engineers are broken as a whole. I was playing a power spec tho because I’m not lame.

You can dodge high burst, you can also dodge conditions except that it doesn’t even matter because they’re instantly reapplied. Woo I dodged 3/5 shots of an engi poison spray, or 1 of his incendiary rounds, doesn’t matter.

I don’t enjoy being stunlocked by 2 hambows, but hey…

Also +1 for above

Conditions are such a funny thing. In pvp they are overpowered, in pve they are worthless.

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Master of Timespace.2548:

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Please stop bringing that up. GW2 “competitive” is almost non existent and to bring that one (the only one afaik) tourney up to these kind of discussions is irrelevant and pointless.

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.

And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.

Power builds are just as bad. Just look at the post not that long ago about the guy who did 18k with a single auto attack in Lich form, by getting two sigil procs and Chill of Death proc. Killshot can deal upwards of 10k damage. And all that damage is applied instantly, whereas even the most broken Dhuumfire patch pre-nerfs Necro burst would have to blow all their condi CDs to deal around 3-4k DPS.

The issue isn’t condis themselves, its that ANet hasn’t made many cleanses that are damage specific. And since conditions are a vital defense in some builds, you end up with either so much cleansing that condi builds are completely irrelevant, or not enough and its impossible to get off the conditions you want.

Bhawb.7408:

The issue isn’t condis themselves, its that ANet hasn’t made many cleanses that are damage specific. And since conditions are a vital defense in some builds, you end up with either so much cleansing that condi builds are completely irrelevant, or not enough and its impossible to get off the conditions you want.

NO, its how bursty they can be apllied on a target (even AOE) and ALL condispells have no animations which would allow to react (dodge)

i talk only about damage conditions – CCeffects never should have been conditions to begin with

Except not all conditions or condition builds are bursty (only the ones you see in the meta, and generally even those require melee range), and almost all of them have dodgeable animations.

For example Necro. The only things that don’t have tells are Tainted Shackles, Doom, any sigils, and Corrupt Boon. Every single other skill has a cast time of at least 3/4s or has a travel time and animation with a 1/4s cast time. So without using any skills that have animations, they can only stack 3 torment, some fear (depends on duration/distance, 2-3s), and bleeding from geomancy. A full condi “burst” rotation takes a few seconds (around kitten, and all the skills except the ones listed above have tells and cast times.

I can’t speak of other classes, but since Necro is the go-to complain about condis class it should be fine. Now, if this was the patch right after dhuumfire was introduced? Then I’d agree with you, but we’ve taken a lot of nerfs to our damage since then (conveniently ones that weren’t reverted even when Dhuumfire was taken away).

Julie Yann.5379:

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

^ This.

There is no longer a condition meta, where everybody and their mother plays condition builds. In fact, condition builds are falling out of flavor, while power builds are the new trend due to a rising bunker meta.

One could argue that conditions defeat bunkers due to their defense-bypassing properties, but this is not true. Bunkers tend to have supremely good condition removal to aid their survivability, so a competent bunker will not die from conditions alone. Power builds are the best way to kill bunkers, and that’s why power builds are so popular in this bunker meta.

In a 1v1 or 1v2 duel, conditions are powerful (as they should be), but in a proper team fight, conditions fizzle out of usefulness because bunkers are cleansing conditions from themselves and their teammates while bursting people down with power damage. Conditions are fine the way they are now.

Julie Yann.5379:

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

That’s because your title says you’re from NA. Come take a look in EU and cry..
And yes, NA playstyle is whole different to EU. The thing is conditions are too spammable, leaving us vulnuerable because we don’t even have enough condi-cleansing with 3 utilties. (some classes do).

zone.1073:

Julie Yann.5379:

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

In a 1v1 or 1v2 duel, conditions are powerful (as they should be), but in a proper team fight, conditions fizzle out of usefulness because bunkers are cleansing conditions from themselves and their teammates while bursting people down with power damage. Conditions are fine the way they are now.

Seems to me you think bunker guards can perma cleanse your conditions. Or either you’re from NA aswel and just randomly throwing condi around hoping it will hit someone. In EU, organized teams put a target on someone in the teamfight and insta gib him. Trust me, conditions and/or power Lich Form brings you down quickly, nothing the guard can do.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.

And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.

It’s not that they outdamage BURST builds, though I’m not saying that it’s impossible.

It’s the fact that they’re also debuffs that eventually outlast you while turning you useless unless you cleanse them. Condis can’t kill people as fast as power builds do but it’s coming terrifying close.

Terrorsquad.2349:

The thing is conditions are too spammable, leaving us vulnuerable because we don’t even have enough condi-cleansing with 3 utilties. (some classes do).

That’s it, though. If one cannot defeat the condition player in an allotted amount of time, consider it as being defeated already then.

In other words, even after one has used all of one’s condition cleanses, exhausted all of one’s options possible, and one still has not killed the condition opponent, then one deserves to lose the encounter, no?

It’s the same philosophy with berserker glass cannons. If a glass cannon fails to kill their target within 10-20 seconds and has exhausted their entire rotation of skills, then the power-built glass cannon does not deserve to win that encounter.

Is this your ideal scenario of balance? To 100% always have an answer to every single stack of conditions possible, and therefore never die to conditions, and always cleanse every condition and kill the condition player 100% every time? I don’t understand your logic.

Terrorsquad.2349:

zone.1073:

Julie Yann.5379:

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

In a 1v1 or 1v2 duel, conditions are powerful (as they should be), but in a proper team fight, conditions fizzle out of usefulness because bunkers are cleansing conditions from themselves and their teammates while bursting people down with power damage. Conditions are fine the way they are now.

Seems to me you think bunker guards can perma cleanse your conditions. Or either you’re from NA aswel and just randomly throwing condi around hoping it will hit someone. In EU, organized teams put a target on someone in the teamfight and insta gib him. Trust me, conditions and/or power Lich Form brings you down quickly, nothing the guard can do.

But that isn’t any different than what a couple of power builds can do to that same target. Anyone getting focus by multiple players will go down fast.

Razor.6392:

Master of Timespace.2548:

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Please stop bringing that up. GW2 “competitive” is almost non existent and to bring that one (the only one afaik) tourney up to these kind of discussions is irrelevant and pointless.

it’s not irrelevant, 95% of players, including you. copy the builds and playstyle of those players…

also…. Ignorance is the one thing Anet can’t fix, if conditions are giving you such a hard time then run; Melandru runes with Sigil of Purity & Generosity…. god mode vs condi specs

Razor.6392:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.

And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.

It’s not that they outdamage BURST builds, though I’m not saying that it’s impossible.

It’s the fact that they’re also debuffs that eventually outlast you while turning you useless unless you cleanse them. Condis can’t kill people as fast as power builds do but it’s coming terrifying close.

You act as if though zerker builds don’t also have access to these debuffs as well. You can use those same debuffs or CC to disable those condi builds and burst them down as a zerker. Debuffing’s main purpose isn’t to do damage (some of which don’t even do damage) so condition damage is just a secondary effect to these debuffing conditions like blinds, cripples,chills, etc etc.

Well this whole argument it’s pointless. I believe conditions aren’t broken damage-wise but it’s ridiculous how fast they can be applied. It’s not so much as their damage, it’s how dodging and cleansing them is utterly pointless at the rate that they’re spammed!

It’s mindless and boring gameplay. Fire and forget ftw.

Razor.6392:

You’re killing pvp. NOBODY enjoys being spammed with conditions, far more than what you can clear. Even when using elixir C as an engi I still have 3-4 condis the next second.

Do something please.

PS: I don’t even play engi btw, it’s an occasional alt and also an example.

Well engies have very few cleansing options apart from Elixirs so I can see where the problem is BUT that being said, just use Elixir R with Cleaning Formula 409 and that should solve your condition woes.

Melandru runes with Sigil of purity & Generosity

zone.1073:

Terrorsquad.2349:

The thing is conditions are too spammable, leaving us vulnuerable because we don’t even have enough condi-cleansing with 3 utilties. (some classes do).

That’s it, though. If one cannot defeat the condition player in an allotted amount of time, consider it as being defeated already then.

In other words, even after one has used all of one’s condition cleanses, exhausted all of one’s options possible, and one still has not killed the condition opponent, then one deserves to lose the encounter, no?

It’s the same philosophy with berserker glass cannons. If a glass cannon fails to kill their target within 10-20 seconds and has exhausted their entire rotation of skills, then the power-built glass cannon does not deserve to win that encounter.

Is this your ideal scenario of balance? To 100% always have an answer to every single stack of conditions possible, and therefore never die to conditions, and always cleanse every condition and kill the condition player 100% every time? I don’t understand your logic.

Signed in just to +1 this. Its funny how some people wont be happy until they get a skill that says “cleanse all condis and become immune to all condis until opponent dies”

Julie Yann.5379:

Terrorsquad.2349:

zone.1073:

Julie Yann.5379:

To be honest, I don’t see that many condi builds in sPvP. No more than power builds. Yes they are annoying but most conditions are AoE, don’t stand in the red circles. Conditions from auto attacks don’t do much damage, save your cleanses for the big burst.

In a 1v1 or 1v2 duel, conditions are powerful (as they should be), but in a proper team fight, conditions fizzle out of usefulness because bunkers are cleansing conditions from themselves and their teammates while bursting people down with power damage. Conditions are fine the way they are now.

Seems to me you think bunker guards can perma cleanse your conditions. Or either you’re from NA aswel and just randomly throwing condi around hoping it will hit someone. In EU, organized teams put a target on someone in the teamfight and insta gib him. Trust me, conditions and/or power Lich Form brings you down quickly, nothing the guard can do.

But that isn’t any different than what a couple of power builds can do to that same target. Anyone getting focus by multiple players will go down fast.

Some classes have invuln for some seconds (guard, ele, ranger, warr, engi) against power based attacks. Note that a lot of condition fields are Unblockable and power hits cannot be unblockable (unless warr with Signet of Might activated). Simply here u can see there is more power invuln compared to condi invuln. Yet it conditions are more spammable.. Thats my point

In the spirit of the thread’s OP, I believe that damage needs to be nerfed.
Whenever I fight people in PvP they keep spamming skills that deal damage and these damage skills are reducing my health, killing me even!

This CANNOT be allowed! Everyone should only use non-damaging skills, except me of course, so that I can choose full damage gear/build and rake up 90-0 kill ratios and prove that I am as good as I believe I am.

Since these are my opinions they obviously can’t be wrong and so must be known as truth.

Kiriakulos.1690:

In the spirit of the thread’s OP, I believe that damage needs to be nerfed.
Whenever I fight people in PvP they keep spamming skills that deal damage and these damage skills are reducing my health, killing me even!

This CANNOT be allowed! Everyone should only use non-damaging skills, except me of course, so that I can choose full damage gear/build and rake up 90-0 kill ratios and prove that I am as good as I believe I am.

Since these are my opinions they obviously can’t be wrong and so must be known as truth.

Signed
-Condition faceroll player

The thing about conditions is that
-You only need condi damage and maybe some duration and you’re golden, you don’t need to sacrifice other stats
-Not mitigated by defense (power builds are, shocking right? protection does nothing against condis, same with regen)
-Spam-ability. Engi can just faceroll bombkit or nades. Necro can simply spam 1 on scepter / staff 2345 combined with balanced fears and cover condis. Basically every attack inflicts conditions, while only a select few can burst kitten power builds.
-Dodge / aegis a 5k backstab by a thief? rewarding. Dodge a #2 staff mark on a necro? Well you dodged 2 stacks of bleed, too bad he has way more of those in his kitten nal, if not say an unlimited amount through different means.

conditions promote passive, mindless gameplay. nothing is engaging about a guy with double the hp of a glass cannon (triple in case of necros) spamming conditions with every single attack.

Razor.6392:

Kiriakulos.1690:

In the spirit of the thread’s OP, I believe that damage needs to be nerfed.
Whenever I fight people in PvP they keep spamming skills that deal damage and these damage skills are reducing my health, killing me even!

This CANNOT be allowed! Everyone should only use non-damaging skills, except me of course, so that I can choose full damage gear/build and rake up 90-0 kill ratios and prove that I am as good as I believe I am.

Since these are my opinions they obviously can’t be wrong and so must be known as truth.

Signed
-Condition faceroll player

The thing about conditions is that
-You only need condi damage and maybe some duration and you’re golden, you don’t need to sacrifice other stats
-Not mitigated by defense (power builds are, shocking right? protection does nothing against condis, same with regen)
-Spam-ability. Engi can just faceroll bombkit or nades. Necro can simply spam 1 on scepter / staff 2345 combined with balanced fears and cover condis. Basically every attack inflicts conditions, while only a select few can burst kitten power builds.
-Dodge / aegis a 5k backstab by a thief? rewarding. Dodge a #2 staff mark on a necro? Well you dodged 2 stacks of bleed, too bad he has way more of those in his kitten nal, if not say an unlimited amount through different means.

conditions promote passive, mindless gameplay. nothing is engaging about a guy with double the hp of a glass cannon (triple in case of necros) spamming conditions with every single attack.

Nah man, damage promotes passive mindless spamming gameplay. Can you imagine how hard it’d be to kill other people without using damage abilities? Now that would be a proof of real skill!

If even Engis are complaining about condition spam we know it’s serious.

But yeah, condition spam has reached stupid proportions in this game, I agree.

-You only need condi damage and maybe some duration and you’re golden, you don’t need to sacrifice other stats

Aye but you can’t fully abuse it in spvp as there is no dire gear.

-Not mitigated by defense (power builds are, shocking right? protection does nothing against condis, same with regen)

This is valid, though regen works just fine against condis. Weakness however does not. Then again you can cleanse conditions.

-Spam-ability. Engi can just faceroll bombkit or nades. Necro can simply spam 1 on scepter / staff 2345 combined with balanced fears and cover condis. Basically every attack inflicts conditions, while only a select few can burst kitten power builds.

To be fair, spamming is a general issue of the game and isn’t related to conditions only.

-Dodge / aegis a 5k backstab by a thief? rewarding. Dodge a #2 staff mark on a necro? Well you dodged 2 stacks of bleed, too bad he has way more of those in his kitten nal, if not say an unlimited amount through different means.

Lol. The thief will just hit the #1 key again.

Master of Timespace.2548:

This is valid, though regen works just fine against condis. Weakness however does not. Then again you can cleanse the conditions.

Lol. The thief will just hit the #1 key again.

Conditions can be easily re-applied, and regen’s 150-300 hp regen can’t do much against the 700 burning, 200 poison and 100+ bleeding per second (not to mention how its decreased by 33%)

While the thief part is true, you’re still 5k hp higher than you would be if you didn’t dodge. It can make the difference. Engi has burn on crit, so you can dodge all you want but it matters very, very little.

Dee Jay.2460:

If even Engis are complaining about condition spam we know it’s serious.

But yeah, condition spam has reached stupid proportions in this game, I agree.

I have a level 80 engi that I very rarely use. I only logged it recently to finish an old achievement (3rd tier of genius).

My main is ele and thief,

Here’s the problem about condis vs direct damage:

- A direct damage burst build will need 3 different stats to deal good burst and sustain damage: Percision (for a higher crit rate), ferocity (for higher crits) and power (for more damage)

- Direct damage further takes armor/toughness in account (Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)).
—
Now, a condition damage build will need the following stats for its condition to be effective: Condition damage and condition duration

Conditions are usually really easy to apply and the difference to direct damage is that they deal damage after you hit your enemy. You can’t dodge the conditions… ye sure you can remove the conditions.. but some builds are able to apply such an amount of conditions that even good condi cleanse isn’t nearly enough.

->
- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.

- Conditons deal passive damage but almost match direct damage in some cases which is a problem as they are easier to apply than direct damage and for some builds harder to avoid too

-> now what I think is neccessary, is an additonal stat or an additon to an existing stat.
“Toughness agains condition damage”
Healing power seems like a possibilty to get such an addition.

Skrill.6170:

- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.

I like how people that complain about conditions always pretend that condition duration is only a one way advantage for conditions and ignore the fact that duration can not only just be increased but decreased as well. Also, conditions have a disadvantage over power builds in that you can mitigate some or most of the damage AFTER getting hit by it. And I love that people pretend that precision is NEVER a factor in condition builds when there are condition builds/traits/runes/sigils that rely on critical chance (i.e. Incendiary Powder).

Yeah, try running an IP build with no precision at all, let’s see how far that miniscule base crit chance rate will get you burning. Way to be dishonest, people.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Skrill.6170:

- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.

I like how people that complain about conditions always pretend that condition duration is only a one way advantage for conditions and ignore the fact that duration can not only just be increased but decreased as well. Also, conditions have a disadvantage over power builds in that you can mitigate some or most of the damage AFTER getting hit by it. And I love that people pretend that precision is NEVER a factor in condition builds when there are condition builds/traits/runes/sigils that rely on critical chance (i.e. Incendiary Powder).

Yeah, try running an IP build with no precision at all, let’s see how far that miniscule base crit chance rate will get you burning. Way to be dishonest, people.

its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr

My only issue with condi is the overload, I liked gw1 style because they were broken down into condis and hexes so you could at least prioritize the clears but atm you get a 20 stack of bleed burn poison and torment then it gets covered by cripple chill weakness vuln and it’s just like game plz

And look at the threads about “No Necro in the Finally Tour and no Engi, so we need BUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

What really need a nerf are those broken Condition spec and those broken 45% duration of something Runes. And when they are at it please take that 40% Foods out of the game. I will never understand the mind of any Dev who think this kitten look balanced to them.

Darek.1836:

its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr

Hurr Durr, because putting points into firearms or taking elixir B doesn’t count as crit chance/precision at all!

Oh no wait, it does. Running points into the firearms traitline is literally running points into precision. I don’t know what you’re thinking here. Good grief.

Razor.6392:

Master of Timespace.2548:

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Please stop bringing that up. GW2 “competitive” is almost non existent and to bring that one (the only one afaik) tourney up to these kind of discussions is irrelevant and pointless.

You said exactly what I came to say. Not to mention GW2 Competitive is a joke right now for real PvP’ers. They have plenty of missing content, as well kitten missing mechanics to make the pvp in this game competitive. (excluding WvW, but it’s WvW lol who cares) it’s just a zerg a-thon with more people.

GW2 is a game made for casuals… Being “good” in this game is little more than playing for 4 or 5 hours a day for a month. No matter how many hours you sink in to this game casuals can still ruin your day. The sooner you accept the fact that a toddler could master this game in a few months time the sooner you’ll stop crying about conditions being OP.

Also on the subject of +40% condition duration foods, I have a thought for you… You can get what, 3k power with a power build without food buffs. Or somewhere in the ballpark of 3k. Ever tried getting 100% condition duration without foods? Can’t be done. Maybe if they made it possible for every profession to have access to 100% condition duration if they spec’d properly I’d be okay with them removing +40% condition duration foods. Until then, no thanks… Otherwise I’m stuck using conditions that burn out in 3seconds if uncleansed and in 1second if they are cleansed. What would be the point.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Darek.1836:

its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr

Hurr Durr, because putting points into firearms or taking elixir B doesn’t count as crit chance/precision at all!

Oh no wait, it does. Running points into the firearms traitline is literally running points into precision. I don’t know what you’re thinking here. Good grief.

you completely missed the point didnt you

Darek.1836:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Darek.1836:

its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr

Hurr Durr, because putting points into firearms or taking elixir B doesn’t count as crit chance/precision at all!

Oh no wait, it does. Running points into the firearms traitline is literally running points into precision. I don’t know what you’re thinking here. Good grief.

you completely missed the point didnt you

I guess I did. Sarcasm isn’t translated well in written form.

Razor.6392:

Master of Timespace.2548:

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Please stop bringing that up. GW2 “competitive” is almost non existent and to bring that one (the only one afaik) tourney up to these kind of discussions is irrelevant and pointless.

Irrelevant why? Because it doesnt fit the Anti-Condition propaganda?

Here we’ve had the top teams from NA and EU competing with eachother in, quite frankly, a worn out and stale meta that has been around for ages.

All these Condition haters have been screaming for over 6 months now that sPvP is nothing but Conditions with the buzz word being “Condition Meta”.
And yet, lo and behold, the top teams dont actually use Condition builds on everything. They dont believe they are viable or competitive if they do, and prefer a majority of Power-builds.

This wasnt some show match between two teams. Over 200 teams registered, and ultimately 128 teams competed.
I’m not going to say none of those teams ran a team that existed mostly of Condition builds, but if such teams did i can safely say they were unable to compete with the teams that ran with mostly Power-builds.

And id say thats pretty kitten relevant.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Skrill.6170:

- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.

I like how people that complain about conditions always pretend that condition duration is only a one way advantage for conditions and ignore the fact that duration can not only just be increased but decreased as well. Also, conditions have a disadvantage over power builds in that you can mitigate some or most of the damage AFTER getting hit by it. And I love that people pretend that precision is NEVER a factor in condition builds when there are condition builds/traits/runes/sigils that rely on critical chance (i.e. Incendiary Powder).

Yeah, try running an IP build with no precision at all, let’s see how far that miniscule base crit chance rate will get you burning. Way to be dishonest, people.

Sigil of Inteligence

@topic
I honestly think that the only thing holding conditions from domination, is the warrior.

Conditions should be nerfed when their hard counters are.

i.e. nerf berserker stance, diamond skin, etc..
Then nerf condis.

At the moment condi builds need to be powerful because the tools to counter them are OP. A condi class fighting a warrior has to facetank 10s before they can damage the bad guy, and in order for the fight to be even, that 10s downtime needs to be made up very quickly by the condi class.

Skrill.6170:

Here’s the problem about condis vs direct damage:

- A direct damage burst build will need 3 different stats to deal good burst and sustain damage: Percision (for a higher crit rate), ferocity (for higher crits) and power (for more damage)

- Direct damage further takes armor/toughness in account (Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)).
—
Now, a condition damage build will need the following stats for its condition to be effective: Condition damage and condition duration

Conditions are usually really easy to apply and the difference to direct damage is that they deal damage after you hit your enemy. You can’t dodge the conditions… ye sure you can remove the conditions.. but some builds are able to apply such an amount of conditions that even good condi cleanse isn’t nearly enough.

->
- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.

- Conditons deal passive damage but almost match direct damage in some cases which is a problem as they are easier to apply than direct damage and for some builds harder to avoid too

-> now what I think is neccessary, is an additonal stat or an additon to an existing stat.
“Toughness agains condition damage”
Healing power seems like a possibilty to get such an addition.

conditions only take 2 stats in account, but their highest tier damage is caped and so is there stacks. The day I see a condition stacker stack a 7-8K condition back stab or 7-8K condition eviscerate I’ll understand your argument. 2 stats that are utterly capped forever vs 4 stats that have never ending capacity of rotating maximum upfront damage. Who will die faster in the end you think..an 20K warrior ticking out 120 damage every 0.5 seconds..or a 20K mesmer with sharper images getting hit for 6-8K very 10 seocnds with 5k damage peppered out between bursts?

Conditions are almost ok. Almost. I think balth runes and necromancers are overpowered. Imo, the thing that needs to be changed is condi cleanse. There are classes that have a ton of condi cleanse( guards, thieves and elementalists) and some that dont. If conditions were buffed, condi cleanse should’ve also been buffed (for some classes)
Although i don’t say conditions are not op for some classes. Braindead spam condi classes are annoying to fight and hard to kill, but with some condi cleanse, i think it would be more balanced.
Maybe it’s just my personal POV so it might sound dumb.

Asomal.6453:

Sigil of Inteligence

That still doesn’t dispute my point if you have to take sigil of intelligence for your condition builds. It still means that precision/critical chance is a factor in the strongest condition builds whereas so many people claim that it is not.

Also, sigil of intelligence is less efficient with condi builds that have multiple crit based procs, especially ones with low cooldowns. Also, it means one less crit based condition procced sigil on your build.

I’m not sure where people are getting this idea that conditions can’t be dodged or mitigated.

You can dodge conditions exactly the same as you can dodge power attacks, not sure why people think you can’t.

Additionally each condition applies a set amount of damage, it is just distributed differently. people complain that scepter auto attack applies bleed for a necro. Yes it does. It does 150 base damage plus kitten bleed. Assuming they have a full glass cannon condition build that is a 10s bleed with approximately 200/s tick. that is a total of 2k dmg spread over 10 seconds. Are you saying that other classes auto attacks can’t reach 2k dps? because i’m pretty sure d/d thieves can hit upwards of 3k dps with auto attack if they are zerker. pretty sure warrior can do the same.

Of course in addition to all the standard mitigation (block, dodge, invuln, etc) you can also stop those attacks with condition immunities, cleanses, boon conversion and condition transfers.

That isn’t to say there aren’t specific builds that are OP. Engineers seem a little over the top because they have all the condition spam in addition to great direct damage and defense. But that is a general balance issue not a condition issue.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Engineers seem a little over the top because they have all the condition spam in addition to great direct damage and defense. But that is a general balance issue not a condition issue.

And yet Engineers were one of the most unpopular professions during the ToL, only slightly more popular then Mesmer.

So whatever Engineers seem like its a symptom at low skill brackets that, just like condition builds, dont scale up as the quality of the players do. And ultimately get outperformed by power-builds and other professions.

I think its becomming apparent that these complaints are low-skill problems.