Guild Wars 2

Agreed. It is about time thieves got a tiny bit of counterplay

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

I +1 to this change <3
It should also affect Revenant’s energy regeneration speed.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

-snip

I admit that my math is not perfect there but…

Are you considering the changes that will come with the new system?
A d/p thief that max shadow arts will gain same stealth levels of a wvw thief more or less, while being more impervious to damage. I believe what we see in wvw today, will become common in PvP too and regarding wvw…reveal trap is a poor suggestion

Trying to use comming changes as argument is pointless for 2 reasons:
- nothing is set
- not even all specs are revealed yet

If thieves turn out to be OP with spec changes i am sure anet will swing their nerf hammer within as week.

Also, you can’t compare thief with new spec to the current meta we have as EVERY class will change, it is not like only thieves will be able to max out 3 trait lines. Shoul i remind you that some classes will have a lot of current traits baseline…. and thief isn’t one of them.

sure, if thieves get separate ini bar for each weapon bar like other classes :P

Cynz.9437:

sure, if thieves get separate ini bar for each weapon bar like other classes :P

I just remembered revenant energy directly goes to 50% on swap similar to a baseline Quick Pockets,sure it’s too not promote camping but still imo.

Toxsa.2701:

I +1 to this change <3
It should also affect Revenant’s energy regeneration speed.

Should it affect adrenaline and life force gain too? What about all weapons swaps since it affects ele attunements?? Let’s be evil together pal.

Sagat.3285:

Cynz.9437:

sure, if thieves get separate ini bar for each weapon bar like other classes :P

I just remembered revenant energy directly goes to 50% on swap similar to a baseline Quick Pockets,sure it’s too not promote camping but still imo.

Toxsa.2701:

I +1 to this change <3
It should also affect Revenant’s energy regeneration speed.

Should it affect adrenaline and life force gain too? What about all weapons swaps since it affects ele attunements?? Let’s be evil together pal.

Great idea mate <3
Let’s do this!

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

also make interrupts force engi’s to drop their kits

Terrorsquad.2349:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-Celestial-Meta-It-hurts/page/5—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Celestial-Ferocity-nerf—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601—

" Action Always Proves Why Word Mean Nothing "

Xcorpdog.2840:

Sunshine.5014:

Chill needs to slow initiative regen.

It’s a bug, and it should be fixed.

It’s not a bug, it effected it in the early betas, thieves got completely destroyed by it with no counter play so they removed the effect.

Hmm,
main necro, usually power, and recently i even played with a 3rd chill – the spectral pull – in amateur tournies.

mark#3, ds#2, spectral pull = 3x chills , i even run 4th focus sometimes but no comment on that. Based on my rather not publicly announced playtime and various necro vs thief encounter – i would REALISTICALY say

• 1st chill – cleared by uninteruptable heal Withdraw
• 2nd chill – random blind/dodge/LoS
• 3rd chill – hit , just question if its covered AND if im still alive

• 4th chil – Spinal trait proc – hmm this one probably lasts full 5s , till he either drops or heal off CD again.

….
So in total
….
in a 30s fight, even though i have around 70-100++% chill uptime with just 2-3 skills
….
the total chilled and slowed initiative regen time would be around 5-10s.

idk,
but we all know the preview specializations for thief are BULLCAT OP CZ SHADOW ARTS,
so it could be a new counterplay.
Still prefer shadow arts nerfed or just deleted

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-Celestial-Meta-It-hurts/page/5—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Celestial-Ferocity-nerf—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601—

" Action Always Proves Why Word Mean Nothing "

Im pretty sure they’ll shave the stats, its quite obvious considering the meta shifts every year + the amount of ppl using cele amulet in pvp nowadays

Flumek.9043:

Xcorpdog.2840:

Sunshine.5014:

Chill needs to slow initiative regen.

It’s a bug, and it should be fixed.

It’s not a bug, it effected it in the early betas, thieves got completely destroyed by it with no counter play so they removed the effect.

Hmm,
main necro, usually power, and recently i even played with a 3rd chill – the spectral pull – in amateur tournies.

mark#3, ds#2, spectral pull = 3x chills , i even run 4th focus sometimes but no comment on that. Based on my rather not publicly announced playtime and various necro vs thief encounter – i would REALISTICALY say

• 1st chill – cleared by uninteruptable heal Withdraw
• 2nd chill – random blind/dodge/LoS
• 3rd chill – hit , just question if its covered AND if im still alive

• 4th chil – Spinal trait proc – hmm this one probably lasts full 5s , till he either drops or heal off CD again.

….
So in total
….
in a 30s fight, even though i have around 70-100++% chill uptime with just 2-3 skills
….
the total chilled and slowed initiative regen time would be around 5-10s.

idk,
but we all know the preview specializations for thief are BULLCAT OP CZ SHADOW ARTS,
so it could be a new counterplay.
Still prefer shadow arts nerfed or just deleted

Lol, power necro complaining when all it takes is pressing one in downstate. Dead.

this is how players try to sabotage good arguements into hoping in the topic get’s blocked and nothing happens….fact remains tho, thief needs hardcore nerfs

Let Chill add 1 bonus initiative cost to every initiative-using skill in Thief’s weapon set.
Shouldn’t all of sudden destroy the Thief, but it could be felt.

And indeed, think again if Elementalist has to be so vulnerable to chill affecting attunements. If not removal of this aspect, maybe cut to 33% just for attunements.

Darksteel.8412:

this is how players try to sabotage good arguements into hoping in the topic get’s blocked and nothing happens….fact remains tho, thief needs hardcore nerfs

fact based on what evidence?

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

i am talking about 10 sec CDs :P

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Not really, thief in stealth can still die to aoe and procs, while a class with invuln is safe for the period of time.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Not really, thief in stealth can still die to aoe and procs, while a class with invuln is safe for the period of time.

That would be 3-4s every 50-60s..a fair comparison to stealth which can be accessed for 1/5 of the time requirement, on top of this invulnerability does not drop target on you, everybody dies from aoe.

With stealth you have the chance to avoid the dmg, without stealth you must facetank the dmg.

You know the main difference between an ele and a thief?

The first will be priority target[ just watch ESL/WTS matches or just play normal tpvp pug match]; the latter will be the least one to be called as target…..’cause everybody knows how slippery thief is.

I play ele…I have a thief attached to my back, a ranger pew pew with no mercy, an engy trying to perma chill/lock me down along side a med guardian, basically I spent 3/4 of the match dealing with perma immobilize/chill and huge spike dmg

Tried thief s/d for few matches before..nobody even tried to target me and I was kittening terrible, I was randomly dodging and only died after “countless” mistakes.

The thief dies when he decides to die, a luxury that other professions do not possess, a luxury I have no interest in taking away but that cannot be ignored nevertheless

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

just lost all respect for you when you defended thieves not getting revealed when the opponent has ageis. on no level is that fair. it makes backstab basically immune to blinds and unblockable.

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Not really, thief in stealth can still die to aoe and procs, while a class with invuln is safe for the period of time.

That would be 3-4s every 50-60s..a fair comparison to stealth which can be accessed for 1/5 of the time requirement, on top of this invulnerability does not drop target on you, everybody dies from aoe.

With stealth you have the chance to avoid the dmg, without stealth you must facetank the dmg.

You know the main difference between an ele and a thief?

The first will be priority target[ just watch ESL/WTS matches or just play normal tpvp pug match]; the latter will be the least one to be called as target…..’cause everybody knows how slippery thief is.

I play ele…I have a thief attached to my back, a ranger pew pew with no mercy, an engy trying to perma chill/lock me down along side a med guardian, basically I spent 3/4 of the match dealing with perma immobilize/chill and huge spike dmg

Tried thief s/d for few matches before..nobody even tried to target me and I was kittening terrible, I was randomly dodging and only died after “countless” mistakes.

The thief dies when he decides to die, a luxury that other professions do not possess, a luxury I have no interest in taking away but that cannot be ignored nevertheless

Well, seeing as your experience on thief is minimal, I don’t think you should be the person who decides what happens with the class. Also, you played s/d thief, that’s your problem. With so much vigor and countless evades, s/d thief can survive way more than the most common d/p thief. Yet, it’s not meta. Do you know why? Because among other resons it sacrifices damage for evades and survival, that’s not what teams want. And you cannot really compare this. Any decent thief on opposite team will be on your back if you’re on thief at all times. D/P thief is actually even squishier than fresh air due to not having as much condi removal, invuln, deflects/reflects. It can disengage better, yes but as a melee spec it has a harder time in an actual team fight.

Everybody dies to aoe, except a fresh air ele with obsidian flesh, mesmer having blurred frenzy all the time and distortion…Stealth is not some super mechanisms that will protect you from damage. Go and play thief more, I’m sure you’ll be talking differently after getting hit by random AA’s, necro kitten and fire procs while you’re in stealth.

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Not really, thief in stealth can still die to aoe and procs, while a class with invuln is safe for the period of time.

That would be 3-4s every 50-60s..a fair comparison to stealth which can be accessed for 1/5 of the time requirement, on top of this invulnerability does not drop target on you, everybody dies from aoe.

With stealth you have the chance to avoid the dmg, without stealth you must facetank the dmg.

You know the main difference between an ele and a thief?

The first will be priority target[ just watch ESL/WTS matches or just play normal tpvp pug match]; the latter will be the least one to be called as target…..’cause everybody knows how slippery thief is.

I play ele…I have a thief attached to my back, a ranger pew pew with no mercy, an engy trying to perma chill/lock me down along side a med guardian, basically I spent 3/4 of the match dealing with perma immobilize/chill and huge spike dmg

Tried thief s/d for few matches before..nobody even tried to target me and I was kittening terrible, I was randomly dodging and only died after “countless” mistakes.

The thief dies when he decides to die, a luxury that other professions do not possess, a luxury I have no interest in taking away but that cannot be ignored nevertheless

I’m in tears this reminds me of first days on thief I was trolling so hard with evades off point but I was still the center of attraction and my team kept winning lol until the opponents became good of course such nostalgia. This still happens especially with shoutbow when it holds 2 home or has players chasing him off point for the kill but not focusing him on point fights.

I would recommend you to keep playing your thief and swap to another from time to time, the fragile AI syndrome encountered when fighting thief or pretty much any rogue like class is pretty common I remember it from C9 as well vs shadows and assasins.

You’re going around the subject as usual, on thief you die when you decide to die, an incontestable truth, you dieing to random aoe, it is exclusively your problem, let’s repeat this part :random aoe, nobody is targeting you, nobody can in a normal scenario, you die because you kittened up! On all other professions you die whether you want it or not, once you get locked down!

And you have to worry only about enemy thief if he’s decent ; try to play a non stealth profession and you have to worry about everything that even sniff in your direction…see how much the enemy team care about you going invulnerable for 4s every 50s.

Also comparing the condi removal of a fresh air ele with that of a d/p thief…do we play the same game? With a 15s CD healing that removes all impairing conditions…a thief is leagues above a simple fresh air…really..maybe it’d be better to try fresh air outside duel servers and against decent opponents in a team

Supreme.3164:

You’re going around the subject as usual, on thief you die when you decide to die, an incontestable truth, you dieing to random aoe, it is exclusively your problem, let’s repeat this part :random aoe, nobody is targeting you, nobody can in a normal scenario, you die because you kittened up! On all other professions you die whether you want it or not, once you get locked down!

And you have to worry only about enemy thief if he’s decent ; try to play a non stealth profession and you have to worry about everything that even sniff in your direction…see how much the enemy team care about you going invulnerable for 4s every 50s.

Also comparing the condi removal of a fresh air ele with that of a d/p thief…do we play the same game? With a 15s CD healing that removes all impairing conditions…a thief is leagues above a simple fresh air…really..maybe it’d be better to try fresh air outside duel servers and against decent opponents in a team

I’ve been enduring on necro(power recently of course tired of the devs kittening conditions) for quite a while now it’s not as bad as you say lol, I’ve caught off guard thieves many times before but maybe it’s because I main one if anything I’m more worried of mesmers,rangers and usual necro counters. So you are an ele I presume?? About resetting with thief that’s intended but lucky for you this is a team game conquest or not and not “he cheated and I can’t get my loot/kill”.

Don’t compare professions on only 1 aspect, 1 good burst/cc set up will end thief even my necro can facetank in AoE format longer than that. Just need to plan around it but again I do play all classes.

Cynz.9437:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

i am talking about 10 sec CDs :P

this post is the evidence it’s self provided by the joker himself, ty

I think there are a lot of valid complaints about the thief class, I know the thief version of stealth has driven many friends/guildies away from the game. It is going to become an even bigger problem in stronghold where there are no control points…

Even if the strength of the class is taken out of the picture the way stealth works is extremely annoying and miserable, much more so than even the traditional permanent stealth mechanics of other MMOs.

Nothing is enjoyable about fighting a class that can stealth/reset an unlimited number of times. Please increase reveal, punish bad stealth play or something and with that in mind re-balance the thief.

Why has hardly anyone made any legitimate counter play suggestions? Currently the best way to “actively” counter a thief in stealth is to have good game sense and to have some knowledge of the thief you are fighting and when they are going to open on you.

The reveal on dodge/blind/etc for stealth attacks is fine, but it seems half-baked. Adding something like if they hit a player while blocking a silhouette of the thief is revealed momentarily so the person knows they are there. Because all you really want is to know if they were behind you, or on the left, right, or whatever. I guess it could work for blinds and dodges also, but revealing the thief entirely is leaving them exposed with no way out (depends on weapons) giving the player knowledge of their placement is more than enough to punish them for a mistake.

This is more active counterplay because instead of the thief just plainly be revealed, the player blocking/dodging/etc has to capitalize on them being slightly exposed for a brief period in time. Oh and one more thing I actually play a thief, but it annoys me how there is little to no counter play to a thiefs mobility and stealth openings.

They’re not invulnerable while stealth you know…

I think its great that we have new players joining the game, but the 2 most popular threads on the forum are base less complaints from conplete noobs who have been playing the game for 5 minutes.

Sube Dai.8496:

They’re not invulnerable while stealth you know…

I didn’t see anyone state it did, the simple fact is the stealth mechanic in this game lacks counters, compare it to stealth in a lot of MMOs:

- If you have a DOT on you, you can’t stealth (using your normal stealth skill)

- If you take damage whilst in stealth you are knocked out of stealth

- If you attack from stealth and miss / are dodged/ blocked etc, you come out of stealth.

- Your movement in stealth is often at a reduced rate

- Your ability to stealth in combat is severely limited, where you have to normally trait into a certain line of a skill tree and then get an in combat stealth skill on a long cooldown (often 60seconds-3m).

- In some games if you get too close to your opponent in full frontal view you get knocked out of stealth, I know shocking that you have to think about positioning.

- Other games have consumables where for instance they will show up stealthed players on the mini map.

- In most other games, you cannot stealth other players.

- Other games have better anti-stealth skills both in the sense of practical use – AOE skills that knock people out of stealth, but also in many games you are not restricted by the number of skills on the skill bar, where as in GW2 a ranger has to kitten their build to fit sic em on, and the engy skill doesn’t fit any build except maybe static discharge, which no one uses in tPvP.

The stealth mechanic in this game is way too forgiving, brainless, basically easymode, the lack of counters to what is maybe the most powerful mechanic in a game, is laughable, just one more of the reasons why despite having maybe the best most fluid combat system in an MMO, that the PvP has basically failed.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Why has hardly anyone made any legitimate counter play suggestions? Currently the best way to “actively” counter a thief in stealth is to have good game sense and to have some knowledge of the thief you are fighting and when they are going to open on you.

The reveal on dodge/blind/etc for stealth attacks is fine, but it seems half-baked. Adding something like if they hit a player while blocking a silhouette of the thief is revealed momentarily so the person knows they are there. Because all you really want is to know if they were behind you, or on the left, right, or whatever. I guess it could work for blinds and dodges also, but revealing the thief entirely is leaving them exposed with no way out (depends on weapons) giving the player knowledge of their placement is more than enough to punish them for a mistake.

This is more active counterplay because instead of the thief just plainly be revealed, the player blocking/dodging/etc has to capitalize on them being slightly exposed for a brief period in time. Oh and one more thing I actually play a thief, but it annoys me how there is little to no counter play to a thiefs mobility and stealth openings.

Interrupt his HS through BP. There, thief is screwed.

Reveal on a person who is blocking or invulnerable wouldn’t change much. Thief does it because he can. If they actually change it, thief will just retreat and come back when it’s gone.

And it’s far from truth that thief dies when he decides. Thief is the class that usually dies the most in all tournaments. And random AoE is not my issue, it happens and you also cannot predict being randomly hit by procs. Stealth makes you untargetable but there are plenty of skills that doesn’t need a target. Try to use shadow refuge and not think about carefuly where, it’s basically asking for getting all the AoE on you.

@zinks You lost me at at other games, a thief best stomp is stealth even on s/d unless you want to blow an utility,a whole trait line is dedicated to it even out of SA stealth traits exist, stealth is bigger part of thief than evades to the point of stealth attack mechanic, GW2 thief gave up what other rogue like classes have for stealth and evades I can’t compare C9’s assasin or shadow to it or from any other games. It’s just like me wanting the removal of the HP part of DS but it’s would take a while to properly distribute sustain to the rest of the class just like with suggestions in this thread, if you don’t see usable counters make them the Iwin button is not coming.

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

choovanski.5462:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

just lost all respect for you when you defended thieves not getting revealed when the opponent has ageis. on no level is that fair. it makes backstab basically immune to blinds and unblockable.

Aegis/blocks are already very strong as it is in this game. Classes have barely access to optimal builds + having ‘Unblockable’ attacks. DPS Guards already hardcounter thieves in tpvp so giving a bit slack while we can remove Aegis in stealth is just fair. There’s only Thief who can deal massive damage with backstab, which barely crits aswel, due panic strike. So it’s not like its killing you. Do not dramatize this.
Its thanks to the invuln + blocks + blinds + immo + cc you can counter thieves as Guardian. May we please be able to remove 1 tiny block in stealth while mighty blow on guardians kills us without even having to aim?

Reuptake.5016:

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

I agree. Stealth do has enough counters, more than block. Ranger pew pew and other channeling skills are killing us much as it is, without any effort.

Want more stealth counters? Give thieves more block counters, then.

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Reuptake.5016:

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

I agree. Stealth do has enough counters, more than block. Ranger pew pew and other channeling skills are killing us much as it is, without any effort.

Want more stealth counters? Give thieves more block counters, then.

This is the issue. Thief depends on the stealth to be able to survive. I don’t think it’s fair to compare gw2 with other mmos because it works completely different. Thief like classes have different defensive mechanisms, gw2 also have no trinity. If people want to nerf stealth, then they need to give thief something else.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Reuptake.5016:

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

I agree. Stealth do has enough counters, more than block. Ranger pew pew and other channeling skills are killing us much as it is, without any effort.

Want more stealth counters? Give thieves more block counters, then.

This is the issue. Thief depends on the stealth to be able to survive. I don’t think it’s fair to compare gw2 with other mmos because it works completely different. Thief like classes have different defensive mechanisms, gw2 also have no trinity. If people want to nerf stealth, then they need to give thief something else.

Exactly. If they want a piece of the defense mechanic of thief, thief SHOULD have a piece of theirs.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

That’s a fresh air issue not every spec can have it all :/ and why use engi downed state when it’s RNG based :/??

Well, I can see OP has thought this through.

What a logical, well-constructed argument.

I think stealth is fine. I really don’t like evade spam, though.

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

That’s a fresh air issue not every spec can have it all :/ and why use engi downed state when it’s RNG based :/??

Wat. It’s not only fresh air issue. For example mesmer would have even worse time with so much chill.

Why use engi downed state? Wat. You missed the point, being an ele and being affected by chill so much can lead to situations when you’re really really really screwed and die to chill. It’s multiplied by the fact attunements get affected by chill, this shouldn’t happen. And engi down state is not the only thing that can affect large amount of chill. Ice shard Stab is insane, too. If they will be able to use it twice after the rework, then eles will be getting chilled for 20 seconds and that’s insane. Reaper gets tons of chill, too.

My reply was to someone saying how they can be affected by chill when kits go from 1 sec to 1.66 recharge. Ele has it way worse than that, yet it’s the only class that has ’’weapon’’ swaps affected by chill.

Roe.3679:

I think stealth is fine. I really don’t like evade spam, though.

We can be happy s/d thief is not meta anymore.

Thieves share the same iniative bar with double weapons set and They have 33% naturally initiative regen.

So chill could work on 33% instead of 66% for thieves, basically cancelling the initiative regeneration when They have chill.

Anet could make PvP Stealth upkeep the same as it’s in WvW.
Finally Stealth would be a good system for thief class.

:3