Guild Wars 2

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Playing victim again as usual.

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

Darksteel.8412:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

I respect you as a player but thats totally wrong in any way possible.
How many games do you have on Thief, I wonder? Can you play it well like it should rotation and mechanically wise?

Thief has a much lower error margin than any cele build + dps guard (in 1v1 and teamfights)

Either you need to consider having a good thief in your team to counter opponent’s thief or you must be doing something wrong.

Never had a problem vs comps with thieves at all, except vs very good thieves & teams, who can actually peel for their Thief.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks..

If you’re looking at it this way, I think thief has a good amount of counters, considering over 60-70% of the community is running this in teams and certainly 80%+ in ESL/Top Tier play:

• Cele Shoutbow
• Cele Engi
• DPS Guard
• Cele Ele + 2nd Cele Shoutbow
• Thief and/or Mes (instead of Cele Ele or 2nd Shoutbow)

= that’s already 3 to 4 to 5 counterplayers for one single person, which is the opponent Thief

Thieves can’t fight head-on 1v1 for a point vs 90% of the meta builds while most other classes/builds actually can.

If the problem is that thief can disengage too easily, I would honestly say its in your advantage (match-wise)

Some builds have way less counters, really.

uhm thing is…zerker thief forces kind of all other zerker classes out of the game…meaning this: we don’t always want to play cele spec’s on other classes to stand a chance…we want fastpaced zerker builds as well and be viable on them…you’re just coming up with reasons to why thief is “fair” so it can be the only viable zerker build….tbh idc about cele builds but I have to cause of zerker thieves

The most common reason why teams have a thief is because mobility, not necessarily because he can counter enemy mesmer..

Oh and DPS guardian is actually best zerker, able to win 1v1 vs every burst out there.
Also, Fresh Air can deal with a thief 1v1 easily. Thing is, fresh air is just NOT viable in the current passive condi play territory /ohai cele!

It’s not thief’s fault other zerkers arent optimal, certainly not since we see an increase of burst mesmers on EU (GS/s-t), which wouldnt make sense if thieves are pushing everyone out, which is not the case.

just to put this in here.. in any other game i played during the last few months, stealth was always removed upon using an attack or any sort of skill no matter if it hit or not (also when you recieve damage but that would be too much in gw).

guess guild wars 2 is a game of special snowflakes.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Also, Fresh Air can deal with a thief 1v1 easily.

and that’s where you’re totally wrong. as a fresh air you can only kill a thief if you manage to actually land your burst and oneshot him. if you fail at that the thief will hide until he can come at you again. if the thief is in stealth it’s hard to do anything as a fresh air because every damage skill except phoenix, arcane wave, shatterstone which is useless, and the earth3 blind don’t need a target.

invuls are useless because the thief will run away for those 5 seconds or just go in stealth again.

hammer guards can already lose against thieves now that they are running vamp runes and after the trait changes this will be even more in the thief’s favour.

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

Supreme.3164:

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1.

Wat? xD

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1.

Wat? xD

Read my disclaimer, I’m not interested in opinions based on duel servers, during a realistic match, the thief won’t care to wait for you, he won’t follow any rules, he won’t bow to you.

This is a pointless diatribe, if I’m wrong then do pls bring a video showing you playing fresh air ele during a high end team match, because honestly I don’t care that you win your 1vs1 in a duel server , against an opponent that wait your CD and bow before starting.

With CD on defensive skill that go behind the 1m limit, it’s hard to take seriously anybody who claim that fresh air build can 1vs1 during matches, no healing and a profession that can simply straight ignore your positioning..and you want to 1vs1?..what?
Cheers

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

Chill needs to slow initiative regen.

It’s a bug, and it should be fixed.

Chill needs not to affect attunement swap cooldown.

It’s a bug and it should be fixed.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

I know that, but you have the option of actually managing your cooldowns and get the proc on SR instead of something else.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

I know that, but you have the option of actually managing your cooldowns and get the proc on SR instead of something else.

How so? Even if SR is the only used utility in your bar, it doesnt guarantee you giving you SR back with improvisation, though. Sometimes Improvisation gives you nothing.

Regardless of what work or not, the aim of the thread is add counterplay to thief stealth.

There is no reason why a thief should remain stealthed while attacking a blocking target or a target that manage to dodge your backstab. It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

There is no reason why a thief should be able to sit in stealth for as long as he can in order to recover , a period of time where thief cannot be harmed, that’s invulnerability in practice.

The thief can effectively avoid damage unless the enemy manages to land a lucky hit (which btw won’t reveal the thief from stealth)

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

I know that, but you have the option of actually managing your cooldowns and get the proc on SR instead of something else.

How so? Even if SR is the only used utility in your bar, it doesnt guarantee you giving you SR back with improvisation, though. Sometimes Improvisation gives you nothing.

Nvm, my bad. I assumed when only one skill type is on cooldown, it’ll recharge that one.

Inb4 weakness.

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

Either way if we have to compromise, I’d say that kitten cap on stealth would be enough to add decent counterplay, but a 2s reveal must be applied if you reach the cap, if not thieves would still sit in stealth

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

Inb4 pvp bads crying thief OP

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

Sunshine.5014:

Chill needs to slow initiative regen.

It’s a bug, and it should be fixed.

It’s not a bug, it effected it in the early betas, thieves got completely destroyed by it with no counter play so they removed the effect.

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

I did say “despite some traits/combo’s didnt work anymore”. So in order to make such a change, they’ll need to buff/change some traits overall to make it work together

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Take d/p build:

-15 Initiative
-Double HS on blackpowder = 6s stealth on average
-Used like 10 ini
-You recover 6-7 ini
-Backstab needs no ini

I don’t see how the thief remains with no ini after obtaining more than 5s stealth..that’s a lie

On top of that, the enemy won’t be able to recover just as quickly, but that’s not the point because I’m not asking to remove that aspect of thief, I’m simply asking for more counterplay and after all the discussion I believe that a 2s reveal after reaching 5s..make it 6s cap would sit fine with me, nothing less…nothing more, at this point just forget the reveal on block

P.S reveal trap is a crap excuse to justify stealth stacking

Terrorsquad.2349:

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

I did say “despite some traits/combo’s didnt work anymore”. So in order to make such a change, they’ll need to buff/change some traits overall to make it work together

As long as these changes would not make the reveal, pointless in the end

Working as intended

Good thing that slow will work on thieves too though

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Take d/p build:

-15 Initiative
-Double HS on blackpowder = 6s stealth on average
-Used like 10 ini
-You recover 6-7 ini
-Backstab needs no ini

I don’t see how the thief remains with no ini after obtaining more than 5s stealth..that’s a lie

On top of that, the enemy won’t be able to recover just as quickly, but that’s not the point because I’m not asking to remove that aspect of thief, I’m simply asking for more counterplay and after all the discussion I believe that a 2s reveal after reaching 5s..make it 6s cap would sit fine with me, nothing less…nothing more, at this point just forget the reveal on block

P.S reveal trap is a crap excuse to justify stealth stacking

um your math is wrong, yes initial leap gives 3 sec but by the time you execute next HS part of the remaining stealth will be spent…

now, if i actually use the cam trick and go BP+ 4 HS (while being at risk of hitting something and actually get revealed) i would gain 7 sec stealth after all that…. that would leave ma at 0 ini… yes, i could spent 7 sec sitting in stealth waiting for ini to come back but it would certanly not give me 15 ini back right away…

please tell me how enemy can’t recover in 7 sec… 7 sec, even 5 sec is very long time in pvp actually…

there is plenty of counterplay to stealth…. blinds(see CnD), interrupts (HS, BP, refuge, HiS), CCs, aoe….. and revealed ofc
the real question is: is there countreplay to invul? :o

my point was, stealth stacking isn’t issue in pvp…. and in wvw, where it is an issue, you can buy reveal traps…

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

I did say “despite some traits/combo’s didnt work anymore”. So in order to make such a change, they’ll need to buff/change some traits overall to make it work together

As long as these changes would not make the reveal, pointless in the end

Well, reveal is already the counterplay this whole thread is asking.
+ the max 5s cap on stealth, that’s 2 x counterplay vs stealth.

So it would only be fair some changes in our advantage would be in order

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Take d/p build:

-15 Initiative
-Double HS on blackpowder = 6s stealth on average
-Used like 10 ini
-You recover 6-7 ini
-Backstab needs no ini

I don’t see how the thief remains with no ini after obtaining more than 5s stealth..that’s a lie

On top of that, the enemy won’t be able to recover just as quickly, but that’s not the point because I’m not asking to remove that aspect of thief, I’m simply asking for more counterplay and after all the discussion I believe that a 2s reveal after reaching 5s..make it 6s cap would sit fine with me, nothing less…nothing more, at this point just forget the reveal on block

P.S reveal trap is a crap excuse to justify stealth stacking

2 hs and black powder is 12 ini and is 4 sec of stealth
if you want 6 thats 3 hs and thats 15 ini
ini regens at 1 per sec so after the 3 hs combo you have like 3 left

Kofiend.2530:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Take d/p build:

-15 Initiative
-Double HS on blackpowder = 6s stealth on average
-Used like 10 ini
-You recover 6-7 ini
-Backstab needs no ini

I don’t see how the thief remains with no ini after obtaining more than 5s stealth..that’s a lie

On top of that, the enemy won’t be able to recover just as quickly, but that’s not the point because I’m not asking to remove that aspect of thief, I’m simply asking for more counterplay and after all the discussion I believe that a 2s reveal after reaching 5s..make it 6s cap would sit fine with me, nothing less…nothing more, at this point just forget the reveal on block

P.S reveal trap is a crap excuse to justify stealth stacking

2 hs and black powder is 12 ini and is 4 sec of stealth
if you want 6 thats 3 hs and thats 15 ini
ini regens at 1 per sec so after the 3 hs combo you have like 3 left

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_field

Supreme.3164:

There is no reason why a thief should be able to sit in stealth for as long as he can in order to recover , a period of time where thief cannot be harmed, that’s invulnerability in practice.

The thief can effectively avoid damage unless the enemy manages to land a lucky hit (which btw won’t reveal the thief from stealth)

Except the thief can be harmed. How much time have you played a thief in PvP? You still take damage while in stealth and thieves being pretty much stuck in the Zerker or useless role means every hit hurts.

There are plenty of counter plays to stealth if you’re just smart. Most anything that cleaves will hit them unless they are positioned to avoid it. Sure there is a dodge roll but that just means the thief has moved further from backstabbing. If the thief is using it to break away from the fight then that thief is just letting you cap the point. As I said earlier, SR is just 5 seconds of AoE/Cleave here to damage the thief because the pitiful heal SR gives is not going to save the thief. Leaving early just means losing all stacks of stealth and wasting the skill. (and Improvisation is only a 20% chance to get Deception skills recharged). BP + HS stealth stacking is an advanced skill and not as easy it looks to do, plus again it’s just another one of those attack here to hurt the thief.

ronpierce.2760:

Kofiend.2530:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

guys i have solution: let’s delete all thief spells and turn them into loot bag. each time you hit them you gain 5g…. i am sure everyone will love this~

Just stop already…I didn’t open this thread asking to nerf thief to the ground, nobody deserve that fate and this comes from somebody that for quite a while did play a profession nerfed to the ground (ele), the last thing I want is to see another profession share the same fate.

What me and many other apparently find very silly is the fact that a thief does not get revealed in some extreme cases and this leads to situations where the risk/reward ratio goes off the rail, that’s all!.

If a thief is hitting a blocking/dodging target…why should he be not revealed? This would push the thief out of its comfort zone while stealthed

Furthermore why a thief should be allowed to sit idly in stealth to recover from a losing fight? And here I’m not saying that a thief should not be allowed to retreat safely while stealthed, just it’s silly that a thief can remain stealthed for several seconds , let it be 5s max, stop the stealth stacking.

The 5s cap should give the thief plenty of time to retreat safely, if a non thief enemy player manage to sneak on you successfully , he should be rewarded, but right now this is impossible.

If I’m zerker, I manage to hit the thief by surprise but not ble to one shot him, the thief will be able to go stealth for more than 5s to fully recover.

Anet should just give thieves, another role on top of burst role

name me a class besides thief that has positional requirement for their attack to do any meaningful dmg…
name me a class besides thief that relies purely on stealth or evades to survive… no dmg mitigation and such…
getting revealed upon blocks/dodges etc. would just make guards even stronger vs thieves…. do they really need that buff?
if thief sits idly in stealth:
1) he is not attacking anyone and gives time to enemy to recover as well
2) doesnt cap/hold/defend point -> letting enemy to cap it
3) if he actually stands still, he still gets hit by all AoE that is so generously available in gw2

stealth stacking is really only issue maybe in dungeons and possibly in wvw (in which case you can get revealed trap)… last time i checked this were pvp forums~

actually this is a lie, if zerker manages to get a jump on thief, that thief can die pretty fast

once again, if you got jumped, it is your fault…. even if thief is stealthed you can still see them comming ahead by looking at map… or just communicate; if they did go in stealth, once again you also get time to recover….it is not like only thieves have heals… not to mention that other classes have more than one way to deal with dmg (heals, prot, invul etc.)
oh and if thief actually gained more than 5 sec stealth it means that he either:
- has no ini left and won’t be able to do anything but AA
- blew refuge (which can be aoe’d)

giving other role to thieves? sure why not—— nerfing dps build just for the sake of other role is dumb however

Take d/p build:

-15 Initiative
-Double HS on blackpowder = 6s stealth on average
-Used like 10 ini
-You recover 6-7 ini
-Backstab needs no ini

I don’t see how the thief remains with no ini after obtaining more than 5s stealth..that’s a lie

On top of that, the enemy won’t be able to recover just as quickly, but that’s not the point because I’m not asking to remove that aspect of thief, I’m simply asking for more counterplay and after all the discussion I believe that a 2s reveal after reaching 5s..make it 6s cap would sit fine with me, nothing less…nothing more, at this point just forget the reveal on block

P.S reveal trap is a crap excuse to justify stealth stacking

2 hs and black powder is 12 ini and is 4 sec of stealth
if you want 6 thats 3 hs and thats 15 ini
ini regens at 1 per sec so after the 3 hs combo you have like 3 left

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_field

only 4 secs is usable after finishing the combo so in reality its 4 secs not 6. If you dont believe me log in and try it as i just did.

Cynz.9437:

-snip

I admit that my math is not perfect there but…

Are you considering the changes that will come with the new system?
A d/p thief that max shadow arts will gain same stealth levels of a wvw thief more or less, while being more impervious to damage. I believe what we see in wvw today, will become common in PvP too and regarding wvw…reveal trap is a poor suggestion

Being able to spam backstab until it hits through a block, a dodge and a blind is no different than if a warrior could spam eviscerate until it successfully hits you.

Why is it ok for thieves to spam backstab? Why don’t we let warriors spam eviscerate then. That would be balanced.

Zefrost.3425:

Being able to spam backstab until it hits through a block, a dodge and a blind is no different than if a warrior could spam eviscerate until it successfully hits you.

Why is it ok for thieves to spam backstab? Why don’t we let warriors spam eviscerate then. That would be balanced.

Yes, comparing a skill that’s only available when you’re in stealth and a skill that’s avialable at all times seems like a strong argument.

Xcorpdog.2840:

Sunshine.5014:

Chill needs to slow initiative regen.

It’s a bug, and it should be fixed.

It’s not a bug, it effected it in the early betas, thieves got completely destroyed by it with no counter play so they removed the effect.

With the up coming buffs in HoT, they have an opportunity to rebalance thief. So it’s a good thing to make Chill effect thieves, then buff thief slightly in other areas. This gives a way to counter, and leads to better balance in the future.

Laraley.7695:

Zefrost.3425:

Being able to spam backstab until it hits through a block, a dodge and a blind is no different than if a warrior could spam eviscerate until it successfully hits you.

Why is it ok for thieves to spam backstab? Why don’t we let warriors spam eviscerate then. That would be balanced.

Yes, comparing a skill that’s only available when you’re in stealth and a skill that’s avialable at all times seems like a strong argument.

Stealth is more readily available than a full bar of adrenaline.

Same thing with mesmer power block. With HoT coming out, it is perfect chance to make it work on thief and rebalance everything.

My suggestion would be have power block stop initiative regen for 1-2 seconds.

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

Zefrost.3425:

Laraley.7695:

Zefrost.3425:

Being able to spam backstab until it hits through a block, a dodge and a blind is no different than if a warrior could spam eviscerate until it successfully hits you.

Why is it ok for thieves to spam backstab? Why don’t we let warriors spam eviscerate then. That would be balanced.

Yes, comparing a skill that’s only available when you’re in stealth and a skill that’s avialable at all times seems like a strong argument.

Stealth is more readily available than a full bar of adrenaline.

Since when do u need full bar of adrenaline to use F1 on warrior? 33% is enough to use F1

Supreme.3164:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)
3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

Hopefully we’ll see more counterplay to stealth in general when HoT release, even though I still think that current reveal utilities have too high CD for the utility

actually i feel that recent posts are too faar from the original posts theme, which mostly is about the section i commented.

actually i can go with the 1) and 2) couse reveal wont make you come out of stealth at all it just makes you unable to stealth 3) is not really necessary couse cill already slows thieves melle pressure by making them unable to chase the target. implementing 3) gonna make the class even more vulnerable wich is really unnecessary.

the only one things that would be worth comlyining (about d/p thief couse people tend forget to secify what they are talking about) is the ability to stealth other teammates for ages with blasting smoke fields or burning refugee CD —> insane roaming && spike potential with lets say a hammer guard || mesmer. the other one is the unique ‘back cap’ ability provided by the shortbow.
I believe these two major things are mentioned before. Could you people pls consider this and keep the topic prodictive?

Darksteel.8412:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

I respect you as a player but thats totally wrong in any way possible.
How many games do you have on Thief, I wonder? Can you play it well like it should rotation and mechanically wise?

Thief has a much lower error margin than any cele build + dps guard (in 1v1 and teamfights)

Either you need to consider having a good thief in your team to counter opponent’s thief or you must be doing something wrong.

Never had a problem vs comps with thieves at all, except vs very good thieves & teams, who can actually peel for their Thief.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks..

If you’re looking at it this way, I think thief has a good amount of counters, considering over 60-70% of the community is running this in teams and certainly 80%+ in ESL/Top Tier play:

• Cele Shoutbow
• Cele Engi
• DPS Guard
• Cele Ele + 2nd Cele Shoutbow
• Thief and/or Mes (instead of Cele Ele or 2nd Shoutbow)

= that’s already 3 to 4 to 5 counterplayers for one single person, which is the opponent Thief

Thieves can’t fight head-on 1v1 for a point vs 90% of the meta builds while most other classes/builds actually can.

If the problem is that thief can disengage too easily, I would honestly say its in your advantage (match-wise)

Some builds have way less counters, really.

uhm thing is…zerker thief forces kind of all other zerker classes out of the game…meaning this: we don’t always want to play cele spec’s on other classes to stand a chance…we want fastpaced zerker builds as well and be viable on them…you’re just coming up with reasons to why thief is “fair” so it can be the only viable zerker build….tbh idc about cele builds but I have to cause of zerker thieves

There are also bunker,decap and condition specs but the boons and cleansing are out of control right now necro is low tier right now too, thief is not as strong as you would find them in every match neither the players using them. I wouldn’t say thief is the only viable zerker in conquest it’s design gives him an advantage for the mode but in no way it makes other unviable.

But lockdown mesmer is getting a buff lol. How about making chill act like slow on a thief? A thief without initiative is dead. Or make it so that it affect initiative regen, but give them better condition cleanse out of stealth.