Chronomancer is disgusting

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Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

lol lmfao. Are you serious? haha lol this is pathetic. Sorry if I sound rude, but its obvious that you lying your kitten off asking for nerfs when you didn’t even test the class.

1. in the rotation set up you obviously have dueling for deceptive evasion. If you don’t take domination, you give up damage on shatter. If you give up illusion, you give up cool down of the shatter. Ive tried Dom/ill/chron in pvp. You can do a lot of damage on a golem but you won’t do as good in pvp. Need to see actual pvp videos

2. In your rotation you show signet of illusions to activate continuum shift again. lol whaaat? It doesn’t work with f5. It is still on a 90 second cool down. This part right here is all I need to show you obviously didn’t try this rotation (on a golem or an actual pvp match).

3. I have tested Dom/Ill/chron in actual pvp matches and on golems. It works to take down the indestructible golem super quick. However, in real pvp Dom/duel/chron works out because the initial burst is stronger. You also don’t get as much benefit from alacrity if you swap weapons.

4. lol illusionary reversion and Chronophantasma do not effect mind wrack cool down. If mind wrack cool down is the problem, you work with that. These two traits do no effect that. Nerfing these would be like nerfing time warp when mantras and cs was the problem on lockdowns.

5. 8-10 sec ICD is laughable. If you can create another clone faster than the ICD than the trait becomes almost completely useless. Using it for shatter is not the problem on chronophantasma either. They added a 1 sec daze to it because they want to make it so you can dodge before it attacks. As long as you can dodge, the trait is fine. Ill leave it up to the devs if the daze needs to be increased. Not sure if people have time to dodge. If not, try 1.5 seconds or 2 second. Slow and easy steps.

6. Some of the reasons f4 is not replaced is
A. mes got an offhand weapon while guardian and necromancer both got two handed weapons.
B. mes first trait just allows them to use f5 and shield. The draonhunter and tempest get actual traits instead of a fill in.

These two together help justify their decision. Additionally, since I doubt you didn’t try it based on your reply, its a fair bet that continuum split is a lot harder to pull off. In actual pvp the use of it tells the opponent right away you are going to shatter since to time window is so short. One dodge can potentially ruin the whole set up.

7. Please make sure you actually test stuff before you ask for nerfs. This is especially sad when people find out you lied.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

It’s completely OP but at least it’s an elite profession done right. Tempest just makes me wanna cry and change class.

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Posted by: FJSAMA.2867

FJSAMA.2867

It’s completely OP but at least it’s an elite profession done right. Tempest just makes me wanna cry and change class.

“Im used to mesmer being non-factor class, so its OP (in mesmer purple world prespective)”
“Yet, im an ele. my class is the strongest in every game mode. We deserve the strongest elite spec, we are spoiled and used with it”

(edited by FJSAMA.2867)

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

It’s completely OP but at least it’s an elite profession done right. Tempest just makes me wanna cry and change class.

I think I am the only good Tempest player… Here I thought Tempest was God tier overpowered how much I’ve been utterly destroying with it.

_

Anyways, Chronomancer has way to much slow. It’s a very powerful condition that can utterly cripple any counterplay. On top of powerful AoE stuns, Chronomancer just has a bit too much under it’s beastly belt.

_

In my opinion Chronomancer should take the same path of Tempest, a focus on team support rather than more spiking power. Which is EASILY the Mesmers biggest weakness is team fighting, Mesmers don’t need any more blasting power and Chronomancer gives them more, what the hell?

Allowing the Chronomancer to be shatter spike 2.0 is NOT good. If anything, ArenaNet should revamp F1-F4 and have shatters manipulate and not just more damage.

(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I think that “certain” players will complain about anything mesmer gets.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

1) You can drop the shatter damage, it give already enough damage to strip away half of the hp of a bunker class without problems. +30% is very good, but you can do enough damage without that trait.

2) In my rotation I’ve write to active F5 not why you can active it another time to obtain another time it’s effect, what’s that, an eternal loop? It’s to say that you have to active the “back to the past” effect or wait that the effect start by itself.
In that rotation you can do 4 shatter, not infinite shatter. But I think that 4 shatter is enough damage to take down anyone still if you play in sentinel XD

3) It can be used. Hard to use, at last you do only 2-3 full shatter and not 4, but you can do it, that’s the problem.

4) Why did you think that I think that illusionary reversion and Chronophantasma affect Mind Wrack cooldown? It’s not for the MW CD, it’s why if you shatter 3 clone/phantom you obtain back 2 of them immediatly, every single time (if you make another phantasm, for example, because the first die if shattered twice), making you to immediatly active Another Shatter skill (or MW if you active the signet). And let you stay in the fight always with clones and phantasms is a problem for your enemy when you go in stealth or use a clone-swap skill and he lose you.
And 2 free copies grant you, for example, 3 sec of daze or 3 sec of Blur, immediatly after a big MW. No more need to use the sword skill 2 or the stun mantra to immediatly evade/daze the enemy that attack back in responce of your attack.
it give you a easy and simple way to survive better.

5) The clone can be dazed but if you immediatly shatter it there’s no need that ANet increase the daze duration why that clone can be shattered immediatly and the phantasm can still run to the enemy before he explode, making that 1 sec of delay nothing more than the time the phantasm need to run to your enemy and explode.

6) Tempest obtained only a offhand weapon and a rework on it’s attunhement, not a new F5.
And yes: continuum is hard to play but medium risk and incredibly high reward.
And if you want you can do your perfect shatter rotation out of the mid of the fight if not still noticed (like when you return from be killed or come out of stealth), making you able to active your elite twice, for example. 2 moaform in the mid of a fight and the enemy team is dead, no matter how many evade skill the moa form has. They can be evaded or blocked, but if you know when use it you will have no problems to transform two enemies into moas, making them useless for 10 seconds.

7) I’ve tried it. The rotation is very hard to do, very very hard. You need to be fast and hope the enemy don’t CC you to hell, but if you stay a little at range you can do it. Expecially with all the stealth that you can obtain with the torch and decoy. At last you can shatter twice.

The Chrono isn’t the perfect class, isn’t the god of all gw2, but it’s F5 can seriously change the end of a fight in more or less 4.5 seconds. F5, shatter, elite, wells and again shatter, elite and wells (if you don’t use wells you can active a lot of good utility skills).

Chronomancer have a lot of traits that make it able to make things that no other class can do, things that if you play well gives you low risk and high reward. (F5 and shatter+elite from the side of the fight, for example).

Add that to the actual incredible damage and survavibility of a mesmer and what you obtain is a mesmer that can do it’s incredible things twyce.

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

so happy I’m done with this game. as I mentioned elsewhere, the game is gonna be broken for at least 6 months after HoT is released. if you’re lucky.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

Being moa twice in a row is no fun

i dun know why people is defending something that is broken…memser now can use their elitle twice in a row..MOA TWICE IN A ROW…i dun know why the so call pro memser think its ok

You guys realise Moa has a 1s channel time? And it can be dodged and blocked? And that nobody actually runs it for PvP anyway because it’s not even all that useful compared with Time Warp or Mass Invisibility?

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Jace al Thor.6745

Jace al Thor.6745

This thread isn’t productive. Needs to be closed.
There’s too much misinformation being spread.

Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom

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Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

ok, I apologize. I thought you meant using signet of illusions outside of continuum split and your next f5 was another continuum split and not a continuum shift. I also know you were misunderstood in another thread by a different person when you said 2 colones/phantasms. I know you meant 2 illusions and not 2 clones and 2 phantasms. Its easy to misunderstand stuff in writing. However, I never meant I thought you f5 again in continuum split. On this one you misunderstood me. Its easy to do.

Therefore, neglect my point 2 as I thought you meant you thought you could use signet of illusions to take the cool down off continuum split. Also neglect point 7, as I do believe you tried this rotation. Another mesmer posted this rotation as well and explained how in worked on golems but we have mentioned that it is near impossible to use it viably in pvp while doing the damage you think you can do with it on a golem.

Now there are points 1 and 3-6. None of these are refuted so far imo.
I do not think illusionary reversion and chronophantasma effect mind wrack cool down. I said they DON’T effect the cool down. I also said this is the reason they don’t need to be nerfed. If you think shattering frequently in this rotation causes too much problems, once again need to see actual pvp play first, then you make it so you can’t use signet of illusions in continuum split. You don’t nerf illusionary reversion or chronophantasma as they are not what is causing the problem.

When I was talking about daze, I was only talking about Why Anet added daze and why it was a problem before daze was added.

Finally yes, I have heard elementalist complain about their new ability. Based on what I have heard so far, it probably needs a buff so it can at least be more useful. However, I have not played with it yet. And yes, the overloads are not an f ability. However, they are new ability that doesn’t require a skill slot. Based on what I have heard so far, I hope some changes are made so eles are happier. However, I cannot say too much as I have not played the tempest yet.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

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Posted by: Aomine.5012

Aomine.5012

Chronomancer’s actually in a good spot at the moment. It’s fairly balanced compared to other Mesmer specs, but it does have more room for skilled play with well timed Continuum Splits.

What “spec” are you talking about? (after the Mantra nerf)

It has infinite clones/ phantasm, good mobility, condition removal, EVERYTHING.

It can totally replace Chaos and Inspiration, and you choose the rest.

It has permanent quickness, infinite shatter and so on.

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

This thread isn’t productive. Needs to be closed.
There’s too much misinformation being spread.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: Michaeas Magister.1589

Michaeas Magister.1589

all the chrono haters, just learn to interrupt the F5.
its more L2P than an OP issue.

GW2 players obviously don’t want to learn anything, though.

Including Elemntalists and Mesmers, why try harder when you can just have it easy, am I right?

Agreed. I think the best thing GW2 players can learn about PvP in GW2 is that ArenaNet will ALWAYS break some class to the point of making it OP and will keep it there for about six months or so. So you might as well just play that class (on easy mode) rather than waiting for them to actually get any kind of balance in play.

Alternatively, you could just learn to play another game for PvP where they actually take steps against exploits, make reasonable balance passes, and try to keep a level playing field for everyone involved. There are actually quite a few of those out there.

Try Dragon Nest. Fair warning though. the PvP community is toxic and makes the PvP forums here look like a bag full of rainbows, kittens and sunshine.

Actually I was thinking more about Smite. MOBA style PvP but with an MMORPG feel to it. Looks promising. Just need to find some people in my remote time zone to play with.

It’s as I have always said,
“You can get more results with a kind word and a big stick,
than you can with merely a kind word.”

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Continuum split tricks

Honestly i like the general F5 concept, I really think is great and you can use it in a lot of different ways, but probably some combination is really too strong.

(edited by Phil.8901)

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Posted by: aDemoNnDisguisE.8576

aDemoNnDisguisE.8576

Chronomancer is not disgusting however, there are some balance team devs that might be…

How does one Char assert his power over another?

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

It has infinite clones/ phantasm, good mobility, condition removal, EVERYTHING.

It can totally replace Chaos and Inspiration, and you choose the rest.

It has permanent quickness, infinite shatter and so on.

No point responding to obvious trolls with facts, since y’all have consistently proven to be impervious. So, instead, I’ll just say: TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

It is hard to give a definitive answer as to whether chrono is OP or not, as people have neither mastered playing it or playing against it.

However, there are a LOT of very dangerous mechanics packed into the spec. (all the free phantasms, clones, continuum split combined with instant skills, alacrity, tons of slow and quickness) that are very easy to become brokenly OP in the right setup. Just in my initial testing, it seemed incredibly powerful, and that is from someone who hadn’t mastered it.

It all comes down to the “if you play with fire you are bound to get hurt” thing. Chronomancer is a big pile of fuming gasoline just waiting for someone to come around with a spark and cause an explosion.

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Posted by: hihey.1075

hihey.1075

You guys realise Moa has a 1s channel time? And it can be dodged and blocked? And that nobody actually runs it for PvP anyway because it’s not even all that useful compared with Time Warp or Mass Invisibility?

Lol, of course nobody runs that, only every top mesmer.

Pillow Cake
Worst Thief EU
One Handed One vs One Videos

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Posted by: OneKlicKill.4285

OneKlicKill.4285

You guys realise Moa has a 1s channel time? And it can be dodged and blocked? And that nobody actually runs it for PvP anyway because it’s not even all that useful compared with Time Warp or Mass Invisibility?

Lol, of course nobody runs that, only every top mesmer.

Shhhh he doesn’t know you can cancel your own cast if you see a dodge animation, get blinded etc

Please skill/trait split and give control to the PvP team. Karl is fucking killing us

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Posted by: Nier.8741

Nier.8741

@tobascodagama.2961

You do realize that it takes no skill to land Moa if you knew how to dodge count and wait out stability with diversion or daze mantra right? And you have two chances to land it because continuum shift.

Also, chronomancer makes the stun signet super broken it’s not even funny. It is the most over-powered stun lock that I’ve ever seen in my life on top of the reset.

If Mesmer skills took any effort to land, chrono would be balanced.

(edited by Nier.8741)

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

Mesmer and D/D Cele Ele are both disgusting at the moment.

The game is actually balanced when Eles and Mesmers are not around. It is specifically Ele and Mesmer capability in conquest that throws all the monkey wrenches in.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

It is hard to give a definitive answer as to whether chrono is OP or not, as people have neither mastered playing it or playing against it.

However, there are a LOT of very dangerous mechanics packed into the spec. (all the free phantasms, clones, continuum split combined with instant skills, alacrity, tons of slow and quickness) that are very easy to become brokenly OP in the right setup. Just in my initial testing, it seemed incredibly powerful, and that is from someone who hadn’t mastered it.

It all comes down to the “if you play with fire you are bound to get hurt” thing. Chronomancer is a big pile of fuming gasoline just waiting for someone to come around with a spark and cause an explosion.

This is quite true. Compared to any of the other elite specs, chronomancer has so many useful things. The shield and wells aren’t that useful, but the traits and new mechanic are so strong that it doesn’t matter.

Tempest feels lacking because the traitline is overly focused on the overloads, which in of themselves are poorly designed skills that aren’t very useful at all. And everything else in the tree, like latent stamina or eathen proxy feels rather underwhelming aside from elemental bastion.

For reaper, the traitline feels lacking because the spec as a whole lacks debuffing pressure that isn’t chill, and there are severe limits from traits on how much chill uptime you can expect to have. I think thats fair, its just that the reaper doesn’t get much else besides chill. Chronomancer focuses on alacrity, that you can maintain through normal shattering, but on top of that they can also choose to get easily maintained quickness, slow, extra clones/phantasms like you said, so they don’t really feel the pain of giving up a base mesmer traitline as much since they gain so much. For reaper, the reaper shroud is great for the most part, but the traitline is a bit lacking in that you’ll really wish you were able to have another base necro traitline too, and thats not good because the traitlines need to feel relatively equal in their usefulness and it doesn’t make sense for an elite spec traitline to have weaker traits than the base class. For reaper, the only good trait is blighter’s boon, which depends on a base necro traitline (spite) to even be useful in smaller fights. The other traits are good in theory, but just feel a bit weak because they don’t pack in as much awesome stuff as the chronomancer traitline does. So reaper needs more than just chill and some slight personal sustain boosts to be worth taking over a base traitline, while chronomancers get so much useful utility that simply makes every part of their role better, from landing shatters more easily with super speed, to having universal cooldown management, and it honestly doesn’t seem like the value of the elite specs were created equal.

Comparing tempest to chronomancer is even more despair inducing, as you can guess just by reading the traits, let alone by looking at the overall new mechanics introduced.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

This thread isn’t productive. Needs to be closed.
There’s too much misinformation being spread.

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

The problem is that mesmer is actually not countered by any class and really hard to focus. If you try to focus a mesmer he can simply clone-swap, making you lose the real target, stealth, teleport, active sword skill 2 to be untouchable and F4 for the same effect, but reflecting projectiles (if you use the trait).

Now, Chronomancer is a very good Specializzation (the best of all we’ve seen, i think). Good weapon, good design, good utilities (sometimes they require a good situation to deal it’s best but they’re good) and very good traits that focus on manipulate the Time.

But, comparing with the other specializzation traits, Chronomancer traits can be used in All the actual builds, granting Always greath things. Slow to defend and quickness to attack, extra critical against slowed enemies (very good in pve but lesser good in spvp), but the 2 main problems can be: “Every Time you Shatter you Obtain” a Clone and “The First time for a Phantasm that be Shattered it Turn Back” (if you shatter a phantasm and then make another and shatter again the one that had alreaby been shattered die but the new one come back).

That two traits need a BIG ICD!!!

Come on, a good mesmer can play with 2 clone/phantasm near you ALL THE TIME!!!!

I’ve make a try and a Chronomancer can Shatter 4 times in 9-10 seconds!
make clones – F5 – make clones quickly by dodge, utility, weapon – Shatter – Signet – clones – Shatter – F5 – repeat.

All the other specializzation grant a specific playstyle: Dragonhunter focus on the LB and the new Virtues; Tempest focus on Overloding attunements, warhorn and auras, creating a specific support focus for the specializzation; Reaper focus on Chill (chill, chill, chill everywhere!), vulnerability and Reaper Shround (but only a little useless trait for shouts…), granting a good direct damage build that point to slow the enemy (but that work bad in spvp… ouch…), they only forgot to add something good for condition damage, making that specializzation good only for direct damage in RS.

Chronomancer is the Only Specializzation we had the chance to see that don’t focus the player on a new build. At last your wells can help the team and do great things in www, the same for the shield, but if you want use only the traits and the shield (very good in spvp with block and quickness/stun skills) you can make any build you want. You’re not forced into direct damage build or a condition build or a support build or a new kind of build. Conversely, you are pushed to use it in every single builds you already have, making them Better!

Chronomancer is the Only Specializzation (but, yes, we know only 4 of 9) that had obtained a Totally New “F” Skill!!!

There’s 2 things that ANet can do to balance the Chronomancer.
1) Put a ICD into Illusionari Reversion of 8-10 sec and a ICD into Chronophantasma of 10-12 sec. (there’s also Seize The Moment that can need a ICD, that combined with some F skills and utilities can grant a insane amount of quickness)

2) Cancel the F5 and make it REPLACE F4 skill. Them bot grant survivability and they can be replace each other. The specific trait can make the Continuum Split mark reflect projectile, making it harder to destroy instead of making you reflecting projectiles when obtain Distortion by that shatter skill.

That will make the Chronomancer more in line with all the other specializzations and lesser “OP” when used combined with the actually powerfull build of the mesmer. Granting it to remain a very good choice to do but lesser OP than actually is.

Expecially for the traits that grant you to obtain back your phantasm and a clone, that make the mesmer able to use it’s Fx skills too often and without the need of a single skill but all in passive.

Dont listen anet

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

@tobascodagama.2961

You do realize that it takes no skill to land Moa if you knew how to dodge count and wait out stability with diversion or daze mantra right? And you have two chances to land it because continuum shift.

Also, chronomancer makes the stun signet super broken it’s not even funny. It is the most over-powered stun lock that I’ve ever seen in my life on top of the reset.

If Mesmer skills took any effort to land, chrono would be balanced.

By that logic nothing in the game takes Skill to land. Just count dodges and wait out cds. In terms of mantra+stun trait – yes, it is pretty dumb. But it has NOTHING to do with chronomancer so please stop trying to get the wrong things nerfed which is what usually happens. Also, in top tournaments recently the mesmers have been using stealth instead of mantra. But stealth and PU is a completely different story that has no place in this thread. Additionally, stun signet is not op in any sense of the word. Single target, dodgable, weak utility Skillad that wont be used over portal blink decoy.

For other people:
Slow is actually the thing that seems pretty op because of insane uptime. If anything should be nerfed first, it is that.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Seyiwaji.4082

Seyiwaji.4082

if you meet a team with 1 chronomancer you may win the match.
if you meet a team with 2 chronomancer you may still win the match.
if you meet a team with 3 chronomancer fight but forget about win.
if you meet a team with 4 chronomancer sit on base.
if you meet a team with 5 chronomancer you can disconnect.

in group those guys are OP. alone not. this is how it is.
every a bit skilled mesmer will now how to use double Time warp.
now if they are in teamspeak or have a good way to communicate, you can never win a team fight, the more chronoamcer are there.

this is how it is.

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

if you meet a team with 1 chronomancer you may win the match.
if you meet a team with 2 chronomancer you may still win the match.
if you meet a team with 3 chronomancer fight but forget about win.
if you meet a team with 4 chronomancer sit on base.
if you meet a team with 5 chronomancer you can disconnect.

in group those guys are OP. alone not. this is how it is.
every a bit skilled mesmer will now how to use double Time warp.
now if they are in teamspeak or have a good way to communicate, you can never win a team fight, the more chronoamcer are there.

this is how it is.

Nope.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

lol from this thread

to sum it up

in theory you could do all those trick ppl posted like 3 izerk or i duelist, shatter 6 MW etc
pls show us some tpvp match you did it in group fight

i have tested the signet of ethear. yes you can work it out but first you need to bring 3 clones up . make sure they wont get killed by aoe or cleave to be on safe spot as CS will port you the the previos spot. than look for target than fress f5 and spam fast those skills and hope the phantasm wont get killed in the process

if you manage to do that against average group 30% of the time and stay alive while killing your enemy than gg.

check the mesmer forum for dueling testing

also perma slow or longer duration slow – common 4 sec of slow is too long???
AA gs cannot be perma slow and if so the mesmer dont do dmg
if you cant dodge the obvios shield slow or phantasm than l2p how to kill or dodge

i am not talking about new player with whom you fought….or golem in the mist

i was playing both condi shatter and power shatter with chrono full team versus good full team. the enemy pu mesmer just do wonder on us. the dd ele hold the point 2 min in 1v2 and kite like hell
thier thief decap points so fast

so yes i did 2 time warp yeeepeee

if you notice chrono trait line is all about support and not dmg and you will see after the whole hype from it calm down ppl will return to the basic meta builds

(edited by messiah.1908)

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Posted by: Killyox.3950

Killyox.3950

Chrono is really strong. I ran with sword/shield + GS zerk combo and it blasted stuff away. Also has ridiculous amount of Slow condi.

But I would say it’s ok.

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Posted by: Agent Noun.7350

Agent Noun.7350

Chronomancer is fine. Some of the numbers on things like Alacrity and Slow could use reworking, maybe have a “you can’t shatter phantasms while they’re dazed from Chronophantasma” thing to prevent machine gun shatters.

Continuum Split is fine how it is. If it absolutely needs a nerf for some reason, perhaps adding some power to the counterplay would be appropriate. If you break the rift and send the Chronomancer back into the main timeline early, the Chronomancer is dazed for half a second or something. That way it’s more valuable to break the rift and cut Continuum Split short.

Then again, that would be awful in PvE, where that rift is almost definitely going to get cleaved or AoE’d down by dungeon mobs, which means using Continuum Split would just be saying “okay daze me now,” so maybe not.

(edited by Agent Noun.7350)

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Posted by: Killyox.3950

Killyox.3950

Also the misuse of word ‘disgusting’ in the thread’s title is what’s disgusting.

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Posted by: DaShi.1368

DaShi.1368

I think it perfectly describes the unreasonable attitudes of the mesmer haters. They are not interested in balance. They just don’t like the class.

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

If the majority chronomancer are experiencing similar results, how should that not be taken serious? What is the point of being in a game beta if you can not give feedback of problems than?

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Agent Noun.7350

Agent Noun.7350

If the majority chronomancer are experiencing similar results, how should that not be taken serious? What is the point of being in a game beta if you can not give feedback of problems than?

Are they, though?

I think the majority of Chronomancers agree certain aspects need to be changed—Slow uptime is probably too good, for example, and most of the wells are underwhelming—but saying that the majority of Chronomancers are seeing that their profession is “disgustingly” OP isn’t reflective of what I’m seeing on this forum or elsewhere.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

Fact is, we don’t get to see actual statistics like win rates broken down by class, let alone by build or spec. Compare this to a (no offense, Anet, but yeah) real competitive game like League of Legends where you can see that Zilean has a 60% win rate but a sub-1% pick rate for this month in the North American Diamond tier Ranked Team queue or whatever.

So we only have our subjective experiences to go on. Some people are aware of this, others prefer to state their subjective experience as fact as noisily and often as possible. But essentially everyone is just blowing smoke, because we don’t know the numbers.

The only even slightly objective view that we have of the game’s balance is looking at tournament play, because if something is truly OP the pros will be using it. But even that’s not perfect, because the solo queue meta is always different than the team meta, and the majority of the player base is playing in solo queue. Revisiting the LoL example above, Talon has the highest win rate in the NA Diamond tier Ranked Solo queue, at 54%, and the winningest champions change quite a lot as you look at different tiers for each queue.

So, to sum up, the only even slightly objective view we have into game health is tournaments like WTS, which is a pretty poor lens from a solo queue perspective. But it’s the lens we have, and doesn’t show anything dramatically unhealthy about the state of Mesmers.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Chronomancer doesn’t need to be Shatterspike 2.0

Chronomancer doesn’t need nerfs, it needs rework.

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Posted by: Aomine.5012

Aomine.5012

Continuum split tricks

Honestly i like the general F5 concept, I really think is great and you can use it in a lot of different ways, but probably some combination is really too strong.

Honestly, I feel like continue split does not work like what its description stated.
If the Mesmer is going to their “precast health, CD, status” the stealth should be reverted to unstealth status too when f5 ends. So does all the boons and conditions.

Also I think F5 should have a harder restriction to cast after the IP baseline, considering how powerful it is.

It should require a minimum of 2 illusions up before it can be casted, so people can’t abuse this out of combat.

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Continuum split tricks

Honestly i like the general F5 concept, I really think is great and you can use it in a lot of different ways, but probably some combination is really too strong.

Honestly, I feel like continue split does not work like what its description stated.
If the Mesmer is going to their “precast health, CD, status” the stealth should be reverted to unstealth status too when f5 ends. So does all the boons and conditions.

Also I think F5 should have a harder restriction to cast after the IP baseline, considering how powerful it is.

It should require a minimum of 2 illusions up before it can be casted, so people can’t abuse this out of combat.

It works as intended, I mean, Continuum split opens a time window and everything you do in this time window has an effect.

Basically It’s like a time travel, and its duration depends on how many clones/phantasm you shatter.

Healing is a little different in concept

Exampe

I have 7k life —> press f5 (with 3 clones) --> enemies burst me hardly, almost dead, i Heal and im at 12k life —> F5 expires --> I’m on 7klife and i have again my heal.

You need timing&skill to use it properly, and the duration is really a huge component. For example if you open a Continuum split with 3 clones, enemies should destroy your continuum shift or basically they are wasting time. If you open a Continuum split with 0 clones (only IP) you need to precast 1sec. more CD skills or use instant skill immediately after your F5.

It’s super powerful, no one negates this, for this reason i think some combos shouldn’t be allowed, like for example using elite skills twice.

And probably the CD needs to be >100

(edited by Phil.8901)

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Posted by: SnowHawk.3615

SnowHawk.3615

I have champ illusionist and being someone who’s played mesmer since launch I was SO excited at the idea of time control – since your only time skill as a mesmer is to speed up time – chrono really brings something else buuuutttttt I was almost untouchable in any 1v1 matchup – burn engi could take me down though. I used torch in place of shield + I used the wells. It was a little sad and I had to stop actually trying so that people would stop PMing me awful things because they had 0 chance in a 1v1 situation so holding back was the only way to make it fair- that is NOT how a class should be played.
Chrono is fun but there are things broken about it like the f5 skill, doesn’t always activate as it should and it activates too fast without phantasms- and you can use skills 2 times? that’s… like idk— a little insane – like 2 moas? OP much? The traits don’t necessarily work in balance with one another because you’d be greatly sacrificing one trait for something smaller that might have a chance for working but you still need that lesser trait in order to make your build more viable but at the same time it doesn’t flow. I like the time well idea – but removing conditions – it may do that but half the time there is no indication to your team that it is what they do, healing well needs to have a brighter indication and more – idk blue? if it were more of a blue it may translate better as a heal. The wells are soo telegraph and are only good to keep the enemy player off a point for a short duration, shield block doesn’t spawn a phantasm – at least from my experience playing with it nonstop – it never activated the phantasm + the alacrity trait doesn’t activate unless you have it on which can make your build too reliant on CD alacrity charges forcing you to randomly shatter in hopes to use a skill again.
There are some pretty big fixes that need to done to it- but nerfing it to the ground like ele and ranger were for a long time is not it.

(edited by SnowHawk.3615)

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Chronomancer is balanced.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

Chrono is fun but there are things broken about it like the f5 skill, doesn’t always activate as it should and it activates too fast without phantasms- and you can use skills 2 times? that’s… like idk— a little insane – like 2 moas? OP much?

I still think we need to let F5 stew for a while. Putting all Elites on a ~90s cooldown sounds scary, but actually executing a good F5 takes a lot of premeditation and preparation which can be spoiled by an enemy CCing the Chrono or cleaving the Rift. There are some levers which can be adjusted on this skill without totally destroying it (cooldown, duration per clone, activation time, etc.), but I don’t think ANet should touch them until everybody’s had more L2P time.

I like the time well idea – but removing conditions – it may do that but half the time there is no indication to your team that it is what they do, healing well needs to have a brighter indication and more – idk blue? if it were more of a blue it may translate better as a heal.

Yeah, there’s a bit of a clarity issue with the wells. They all look basically the same in the heat of a PvP battle. Most of them have both ally and enemy effects, so it’s not a huge issue, but it’s important for enemies to understand if they’re standing in Well of Calamity/Gravity Well or allies to understand if they’re standing in Well of Eternity/Precognition.

As it is, the clock theme is awesome, but it might be obscuring the readability of the skills a little. There’s got to be a way to keep the clock face while hinting more strongly at what each Well is doing.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

(edited by tobascodagama.2961)

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

ok all saw the nice combo tricks

pvp – why you want 52 sec stealth?, or 4 portal? or 16 sec group stealth (1 sr from thief can do that or 1 sb+pb thief can do that almost), why you want 4 blinks?, why you want 4 feedback or why you need to use all your utlities at the same time leaving you so vulnerable or with nothing to bring to your group

so yes nice tricks like with staff phase retreat spot (hardly 50% use them all)

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Remember, it exists PVE and WWW

For example i play PU mesmer in WWW and it’s ridiculous how easy is to disengage from an entire zerg or running half of the map without be out of stealth.

This is more a PU issue but of course using The Pledge, Alacrity, and F5 with double mass invisibility amplify the issue

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Posted by: Necrotize.2974

Necrotize.2974

Too bad the game isn’t balanced around solo roaming. If you were wiping a zerg, it’d be a problem. But other classes can stealth/out run zergs or just Invuln long enough to waypoint if they want. In the zerg v zerg fights of WvW, PU mesmer likely will be offering almost nothing, especially since the group support wells won’t allow you to be in stealth anyway.

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Long stealth is only an example but honestly no professions should have this ridicolous amount of stealth without any effort (if you try with a thief you need to invest a lot of intiative to blast/leap, mesmer is just running and press buttons).

Double elites like double TW or double MoA can be super really strong in many cases.

I Really think F5 should be considered like a strong elite skill for CD and it shouldn’t recharge elites.

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Posted by: Zoke.2147

Zoke.2147

Yeah, I’ve played every class over the weekend, but far and away I play mesmer most. Chrono mancer was too much, it’s a fun spec and what it does is neat, but some of the more offensive traits need a counterplay downside. make the daze on resummend phantasms longer, 3 – 4 seconds, that way it’s clone generation more often then it is 2 phantasm attacks AND a shatter at the same time. That’s a start.

Outside that mesmer needs a reordering of their damage, the numbers them selves are not something bad to be able to make happen… cause tbh with AoE you really could kill the clones before they got to you. I’d take damage away from the phantasms and put them into skills used by the mesmer, namely blured frenzy, and mirror blade. Both of which require the mesmer to get into melle range to work, and mirror blade can require blink to set up. By putting the damage into those skills and making phantasms less powerful, mesmer can keep the damage but be required to do more to get it, also it would make a 0 phantasm mesmer less pathetic, and a 3 phantasm mesmer less rediculously broken.

Then just nerf PU because kitten the very concept of combat stealths and I hate that this game is based around them… Who ever thought rougue being able to open on you in wow was the problem needed to get their brainstem re-examined.

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Posted by: Amityel.5324

Amityel.5324

had to stop testing chrono because its not finished yet…..and it was too easy to play and kill players……….with not finished I meant not nerfed yet

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Posted by: Extreme.8350

Extreme.8350

Yeah, I’ve played every class over the weekend, but far and away I play mesmer most. Chrono mancer was too much, it’s a fun spec and what it does is neat, but some of the more offensive traits need a counterplay downside. make the daze on resummend phantasms longer, 3 – 4 seconds, that way it’s clone generation more often then it is 2 phantasm attacks AND a shatter at the same time. That’s a start.

I’d take damage away from the phantasms and put them into skills used by the mesmer, namely blured frenzy, and mirror blade. Both of which require the mesmer to get into melle range to work.

nononono and NO! we are a magic caster not a stupid warrior and our job is to confuse YOU with stealth and clones its already too easy to tell who is the real clone

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Posted by: Necrotize.2974

Necrotize.2974

And people will still bring up the other unfinished elite specs to try and destroy the only one that was done close to right. Chronomancer already shares a lot of functionality with Dueling, which almost all mesmer builds take. Nerf it too much and it’ll literally just be a worse version of dueling that’ll only be taken for the F5, if that. Why not make suggestions to improve the other elite specs(after all, wasn’t that the point of the beta?) instead of trying to tear down the one elite spec that actually felt useful. Hard to get a good judge of Chronomancer when Rev and the other Elite Specs are just lackluster for PvP on their own, but I guess that won’t stop people from trying to use it as an excuse to get unneeded nerfs.

People also conveniently forget that PU mesmers actually need to run that trait, so if they want to go for burst from stealth and have chronomancer’s stuff, they leave themselves with only one trait line that pretty much needs to be damage focused. So their only pseudo-defense line is Chaos and stealth is likely their only trait based defense. Conditions have been a strong counter to mesmers for quite a while, but sadly everyone wants to run glassy power builds and still be able to outperform a build designed to ambush glassy power builds. Heck, even when I run conditions, I still get kitten like “lol ur running cancer condi build noob” or “condi builds are ezmode scrub”, then those same people whine and complain when their Marauder build goes down in seconds because their whole strategy is burst before you get bursted. Chronomancer has this condition weakness compounded even more because it takes up a trait line and offers no way(save the well trait) to interact with conditions. The F5 does not remove or reset conditions so it cannot be used to avoid them.

Not to mention a lot of people complaining already didn’t fully understand mesmer mechanics. Obviously adding in more, let alone one as complex as continuum split, will just make their heads explode. I’ve actually had multiple people complain about it because they said double heals and double blink are OP and they honestly failed to see the issue with health changing skills/long distance movement skills and a skill that resets both health and location.

(edited by Necrotize.2974)

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Posted by: Elunarie.9283

Elunarie.9283

For my three cents, we already have way too many mesmers in wvw and pvp. Why? because the class is unbalanced, and people are playing it because it wins the game.

// Bathea Havocbringer \\