Guild Wars 2

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What are your thoughts?

My thought is: this game need a new design team and a new balance team.

That is all.

you can be a spooky ghost now.. a person with perma invis is worth as much as someone who afks in base.

zaxon.6819:

you can be a spooky ghost now.. a person with perma invis is worth as much as someone who afks in base.

True. Also, it’s not like Mesmers in WvW would be able to perma invis in Stonemist Castle and Keeps. Right? Right?

who cares about wvw it is a skillless blob fest. If you think winning wvw is in any way based on player skill you are fooling yourself.

permanent invisibility (all trait)
0 damage.

you need have duel or dominate for get some decent damage

still balanced…stop crying

zaxon.6819:

who cares about wvw it is a skillless blob fest. If you think winning wvw is in any way based on player skill you are fooling yourself.

I once attended a book club meeting and we started giving thoughts and suggestions based on our reading. When my turn came I firmly grabbed the book and raised it slightly, and said “Well, the book can also be… a hat!” And proceeded to place the open book on my head majestically.

Hmm. 20 seconds of AOE invisibility (more for the Chronomancer and more if they use veil) for NPCs in Stronghold is by far not useless, you’re kidding yourself if you think it is. The world doesn’t revolve around goofy-ol’ Conquest.

@OP this would be even longer if you replaced Blink With Veil. Thats another 8 seconds of stealth with PU.

Chronomancer needs to not be shatterspike 2.0

It’s not quite as good as you may think it is on first review. In stealth the animations for shatters and the Prestige are visible, so you’re not purely invisible. And this build requires casting those skills repeatedly on recharge. I did have >some< success with it though hiding in weird (or noisy) locations in WvW.

I can perma invis on my thief. There’s a thing called revealed. It happens when you do damage to someone. You do damage to someone when you attack. You also need to not be invis to contest a point. Ty for your time.

Mesmers, I would like to welcome you to the world of thieves.

Enjoy the perma-QQ’ing that comes with perma-stealth.

This hate for ya is still young, but don’t worry, the tears wont stop raining even after 3 years. So grab your buckets, glasses, straws, and enjoy the delicious tears.

Mesmers overall too op atm.

and that stealth is ridiculous mesmer can stealth better than thief lol’d.

I bet all the mesmer main gonna cry on this thread “mesmer isnt op”

btw thief can semi perma stealth with “ONLY D/P” and its not even permanent stealth like what mesmer doing in that video. and D/D , S/D cannot perma stealth.

Zero Day.2594:

Mesmers, I would like to welcome you to the world of thieves.

Enjoy the perma-QQ’ing that comes with perma-stealth.

This hate for ya is still young, but don’t worry, the tears wont stop raining even after 3 years. So grab your buckets, glasses, straws, and enjoy the delicious tears.

This is worse though, there is tells of where the thief is due to black powder and you can stand in it or cc the bp to prevent stealth. It also indicates the area of the thief. Mesmers can still also summon phantasms from stealth that do considerable dmg.

Mesmer should not have better access to stealth than thieves, regardless of the game mode.

Doomdesire.9365:

Mesmer should not have better access to stealth than thieves, regardless of the game mode.

They don’t. thieves can also upkeep permastealth if they trait, gear, and spam skills for it to the point of uselessness just like this mesmer.

What benefit is perma stealth if stopping to do any other attack is going to render it useless anyways?

Also, IT’S A BETA PEOPLE!!! NONE OF THIS IS SET IN STONE!!!

biggietoot.6945:

Doomdesire.9365:

Mesmer should not have better access to stealth than thieves, regardless of the game mode.

They don’t. thieves can also upkeep permastealth if they trait, gear, and spam skills for it to the point of uselessness just like this mesmer.

What benefit is perma stealth if stopping to do any other attack is going to render it useless anyways?

Also, IT’S A BETA PEOPLE!!! NONE OF THIS IS SET IN STONE!!!

Length =/= better access to stealth, especially considering how both can keep 100% uptime. The fact of the matter is that thieves, at the bare minimum, require D/P to upkeep perma stealth, and in many cases, SR as well. The funny thing is that both of them are huge “AOE ME” targets and can be interrupted with ease. You can’t say the same for on demand mesmer skills like The Prestige/Decoy, which even allow you to stay mobile while using them, unlike said thief skills. Even Mass Invis, with it’s cast time, is better than SR. At least then you don’t have to worry about getting AoE’d in a death coffin.

Also, while it’s not always 100% viable to kill people with decent sustain, you can shatter (As long as IP doesn’t hit them) and spawn tons and tons of Phantasms with Chronomancer without ever exiting stealth, similarly, condition builds. You can very easily kill people without leaving stealth, especially if they’re marauder’s/zerker and distracted. It’s not optimal, damage wise, but it’s a very safe way to shatter-spike some squishies in a team fight and them have no way to really retaliate.

Zero Day.2594:

Mesmers, I would like to welcome you to the world of thieves.

Enjoy the perma-QQ’ing that comes with perma-stealth.

This hate for ya is still young, but don’t worry, the tears wont stop raining even after 3 years. So grab your buckets, glasses, straws, and enjoy the delicious tears.

Exactly this. Mesmer will soon be nerf’ed just like thieve because of all the QQ. Thief is only taken for mobility and mesmer is taken only for portal….

Also, how people value ESL and WTS tourny less indicative than their daily hotjoin. Bascially for them, my being killed in hotjoin is more important than how class perform in highest level of play.

ronpierce.2760:

Also, while it’s not always 100% viable to kill people with decent sustain, you can shatter (As long as IP doesn’t hit them) and spawn tons and tons of Phantasms with Chronomancer without ever exiting stealth, similarly, condition builds. You can very easily kill people without leaving stealth, especially if they’re marauder’s/zerker and distracted. It’s not optimal, damage wise, but it’s a very safe way to shatter-spike some squishies in a team fight and them have no way to really retaliate.

Please stop talking if you don’t even know the basics of mesmer.

Stealth breaks the moment any of your clones hits a foe. The only thing that doesn’t break stealth is phantasm attacking on their own. Shattering phantasm will break stealth as well.

If you can just show me 2-3 clips of your killing people w/o leaving stealth, even the most squishy kind, I would be quite amazed.

Jasher.6580:

zaxon.6819:

who cares about wvw it is a skillless blob fest. If you think winning wvw is in any way based on player skill you are fooling yourself.

I once attended a book club meeting and we started giving thoughts and suggestions based on our reading. When my turn came I firmly grabbed the book and raised it slightly, and said “Well, the book can also be… a hat!” And proceeded to place the open book on my head majestically.

I’m about 95% sure this is from family guy.

Edit: 99.995%

My clones better not wear invisible cloaks. How am I supposed to find myself as a person if I can’t even find my clones?

While it’s stealthed it’s not doing damage. So I don’t care.

I just want their access to invulnerability and blocks to be shaved. Was fighting a Mesmer today who was using Vamp runes, was traited for reflects and was Distorting multiple times while I was fighting him. On top of Blinds and Blurred Frenzy… Either he was invuln or I was blinded like 80% of the time I was fighting him. That sh_t needs to not be a thing. Guardians can do the same but at least they can’t stealth and run away if they fail.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

While it’s stealthed it’s not doing damage. So I don’t care.

I just want their access to invulnerability and blocks to be shaved. Was fighting a Mesmer today who was using Vamp runes, was traited for reflects and was Distorting multiple times while I was fighting him. On top of Blinds and Blurred Frenzy… Either he was invuln or I was blinded like 80% of the time I was fighting him. That sh_t needs to not be a thing. Guardians can do the same but at least they can’t stealth and run away if they fail.

Your forgetting they can summon phantasms which can do lots of dmg and doesnt break there stealth.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

While it’s stealthed it’s not doing damage. So I don’t care.

I just want their access to invulnerability and blocks to be shaved. Was fighting a Mesmer today who was using Vamp runes, was traited for reflects and was Distorting multiple times while I was fighting him. On top of Blinds and Blurred Frenzy… Either he was invuln or I was blinded like 80% of the time I was fighting him. That sh_t needs to not be a thing. Guardians can do the same but at least they can’t stealth and run away if they fail.

All these existed before, and mesmer still was one of the most vulnerable class because of 0 condie cleanse. The only reason mesmer is surviving well now is due to PU. PU makes mesmer cool down management very easy now. Vampirism rune certainly adds to that as well. But everyone is taking vampirism in this meta.

Also sustain is just super strong over the board now if you watch WTS and ESL. It’s not just mesmer. Players don’t die if they don’t overextend. Certain class can have less disengage, like you said guardian, but they have way more sustain and condie cleanse and have on-point presence at the same time.

If mesmer is nerf’ed to a state that he can’t stay alive relatively easily(ironically), it will be completely abandoned. Because it has no power to contest a point. Its only power is to use portal for team mobility and he needs to stay alive to do that. Mesmer’s current situation is just very similar to thief in the meta. It’s easy to engage and disengage. Have high burst. But it is to their disadvantage to engage in any 1v1 against other meta class.

Don’t forget that the team that runs mesmers only get 3rd and 4th place in WTS final.
TCG, the team that has arguably the best mesmer, struggles agains a team(Orng) that stacks guardians. I think this speaks volume because the whole TCG team revolves around mesmer, it represents the best mesmer can do in PvP. They even took a shoutbow warrior just to take some pressure off mesmer because the spec brings banner and can instantly rezz the mesmer.

My thoughts is that GW2 NEEDS automatic balancing measures.

Fiddling with numbers and skills will never solve all problems. You solve them by making the problem impossible.

Take CC. Someone finds a build that can perma-stun someone even if they have lots of stun breakers and stability. What do you do? Change skills in the build, ruining other builds that use some of those skills, but not all?

NO.

You add an auto-balance mechanic layer that will kick in when too many stuns are used against one target within too little time. You bring just a normal amount of stuns, nothing happens to you. You bring way too many, and spam them way too much within too little time on the same target? The target gets an increasing reasistance to stun until they get a free stun break and a short immunity to stuns.

The same principle can be applies to everything else. Perma-anything, excessive spam of anything-

Stealth is the kind of thing that should not be possible to maintain permanently. Because of PvP? No. In PvP it’ll be mostly pointless. You can’t keep it permanently in NPCs in stronghold, and in conquest you are mostly useless while cloaked, unless you pretend to hide and wait until people leave points unguarded but while you are cloaked you are doing nothing.

The main reason to add an autobalancing measure to stealth would be WvW.

Specially since stealth doesn’t have ‘hints’. There’s no hard to see translucency of someone cloaked. And if you use attacks like an engineer flamethrower and hit a cloaked enemy, you won’t see the flames. Visual effects won’t always appear, too. They are not properly loaded for cloaked enemies.

One example of an autobalancing measure for stealth effects would be stealth from player skills causing ‘stealth sickness’ that makes you revealed after too much time cloaked (e.g: after 60-120 seconds cloaked getting 10-15s of Revealed)

vincecontix.1264:

This is worse though, there is tells of where the thief is due to black powder and you can stand in it or cc the bp to prevent stealth. It also indicates the area of the thief. Mesmers can still also summon phantasms from stealth that do considerable dmg.

You might have noticed the scorched earth from torch.
If you stand close to Mesmer the shatter will reveal him, same as for thief.
Kill the phantasm, they are on quite long CD.

Exciton.8942:

ronpierce.2760:

Also, while it’s not always 100% viable to kill people with decent sustain, you can shatter (As long as IP doesn’t hit them) and spawn tons and tons of Phantasms with Chronomancer without ever exiting stealth, similarly, condition builds. You can very easily kill people without leaving stealth, especially if they’re marauder’s/zerker and distracted. It’s not optimal, damage wise, but it’s a very safe way to shatter-spike some squishies in a team fight and them have no way to really retaliate.

Please stop talking if you don’t even know the basics of mesmer.

Stealth breaks the moment any of your clones hits a foe. The only thing that doesn’t break stealth is phantasm attacking on their own. Shattering phantasm will break stealth as well.

If you can just show me 2-3 clips of your killing people w/o leaving stealth, even the most squishy kind, I would be quite amazed.

You’re right, my bad. The reason I thought this is I can Diversion steath (and less impactful, distort). I never made a video of it, but I’ve killed people with a perma-stealth condition build I made once, which only used Scepter rarely to spike people down who got low, just to ensure they died. Given that you’re right, it doesn’t work in the first two, probably not as useful for power spikers. 100% muh bad, no need to get so testy about your precious mesmer, friend. :P

The only real issue is in WvW, with this and the complexity of the new keeps in the desert BL its not going to be worth sweeping and the keeps will change hands more regularly.

People acting like Phantasms from stealth are gonna oneshot you… Seriously, if they’re just camping in stealth and summoning phantasms, you’d have to be brain dead to die to that, because you literally just died to AI. Too bad that thought running through most people’s heads it seems is “No mesmer to target? Guess I better stand here doing nothing while clones and phantasms pop up around me”.

Exaggerations mixed with flat-out lies/misunderstandings of class mechanics seem to be like 90% of the complaining. I mean, just a few days ago someone tried to start a thread for shock value saying that Confusing Images doesn’t break stealth, despite such a thing being incredibly easy to test in like 3 seconds. Did other mesmers shut them down? Yes. Do I also think that some random people may have just looked at the title and accepted it as fact? Absolutely. People are so willing to complain because it is a heck of a lot easier than actually than actually taking the time to learn the class.

Chronomancer is balanced.

Korusef.3714:

vincecontix.1264:

This is worse though, there is tells of where the thief is due to black powder and you can stand in it or cc the bp to prevent stealth. It also indicates the area of the thief. Mesmers can still also summon phantasms from stealth that do considerable dmg.

You might have noticed the scorched earth from torch.
If you stand close to Mesmer the shatter will reveal him, same as for thief.
Kill the phantasm, they are on quite long CD.

Nope not acceptable at all mesmer has easier access to stealth and therefore should not be able to have spam it indefinitely. There is some counter play to Cnd and Bp, though some would already say there isn’t enough. This class already has many different forms of dmg mitigation giving more stealth is silly.

I not saying that mesmers are going to just stay in stealth and spam phantasms 24/7 but the ability to do it isn’t right. There will def be situations whereit will be beneficial. Its already hard enough to pin down a mesmer the ability to perma disengage or reset fights at any time is just stupid.

Still doesn’t change the fact that the mesmer can still summon multiple phantasms and do a lot of dmg with out breaking stealth. Before mesmers used to use stealth strategically it give it some breathing room and set up there burst now mesmer are a total joke, takes no skill land there attacks. If you fail stealth and retry over and over.

Necrotize.2974:

People acting like Phantasms from stealth are gonna oneshot you… Seriously, if they’re just camping in stealth and summoning phantasms, you’d have to be brain dead to die to that

You’d have to be braindead to die from a Thief spamming choking gas in stealth but they nerfed that anyway.

Velimere.7685:

Chronomancer is balanced.

Yes we already know how bias you are on the matter, you have already said so 4 or 5 times in different threads. You also have said dd cele is fine and burning is fine.
You obviously troll or only care about classes you play and don’t care about any form of balance in the game.

kittening christ. Both torch stealth and EVERY single shatter can be walked into to reveal the mesmer, similarly to black powder. You can also see the blast and hear it.

I like how people just say it’s “balanced” without that even being the point here. The point is Stealth, which is basically the Speciality of thief is getting stolen by a mage that can make clones and teleport a whole team too. #ClonesForThieves

ViolentOyster.7534:

I like how people just say it’s “balanced” without that even being the point here. The point is Stealth, which is basically the Speciality of thief is getting stolen by a mage that can make clones and teleport a whole team too. #ClonesForThieves

well they can already summon thieves

Cool, another one of these ..
“Perma” invisible mesmer exploding with shatters every 5 sec, occasionally bursting with flames(so stealthy) and leaving behind rifts that obviously give no clue to anyone that there is a mes nearby.

Also, sacrificing 2/3 utility slots, elite slot, all damaging traits, all shatters in the process. You may be able to kill a golem or wvw sentry but its gonna be a long and epic battle.

Obviously, such ‘perma’ stealth-no dmg build is something truly scary in pvp, which by definition requires killing people and capping points(hint hint, cant cap points while stealthed) to win.

In fact, mesmer is so OP in pvp that all high level tournament teams have at least one if not whole mesmer-team composition, just check out the most recent tournament. Imo winner just had too many mesmers.

In wvw, i agree, this build looks solid. I do enjoy sweeping keeps and killing foolish mesmers who think torch skill actually helps them be sneaky, and with this build they wont even be able to deal any kind of damage. Free loot bag!

I don’t think anybody needs to worry about it. It’s gonna get adjusted.

Next hot comercial will be : gimmick wars 2.1 incomming, bad at other games? join gw2 where win is just in a pull of a few buttons!

This is only easy to get abused in WvW,,, but wvw for Anet is casual, non revelant stuff. i supose people will start dropping the mesmer search since castles are bigger and theres alot of places to hide them.

Vieux P.1238:

I don’t think anybody needs to worry about it. It’s gonna get adjusted.

Even if it wasn’t, it’s a straight-up gimmick build that makes you useless for anything other than keeping yourself hidden. It’s a pointless build that exists just for showing off clever tricks.

That said, it probably will be adjusted because the trait The Pledge is bugged and is lowering torch cooldowns way more than it’s supposed to.

Agent Noun.7350:

Vieux P.1238:

I don’t think anybody needs to worry about it. It’s gonna get adjusted.

Even if it wasn’t, it’s a straight-up gimmick build that makes you useless for anything other than keeping yourself hidden. It’s a pointless build that exists just for showing off clever tricks.

That said, it probably will be adjusted because the trait The Pledge is bugged and is lowering torch cooldowns way more than it’s supposed to.

More or less true. You still can pull out Phantasm among other things that don’t reveal you to do mad amount of damage. It’s not that gimmicky.

Lock On says hi. Stealth all you want, you can’t hide from me. ;-P

ViolentOyster.7534:

I like how people just say it’s “balanced” without that even being the point here. The point is Stealth, which is basically the Speciality of thief is getting stolen by a mage that can make clones and teleport a whole team too. #ClonesForThieves

Actually the specialty of the Thief is stealing, guess who is arguably the best target for that particular skill
The devs seem to be sharing non-special abilities across classes. Guardians got better access to quickness than Mesmers, Engies got AoE Moa on shorter cool down than Mesmers.

Pointless video. Chain stealthing serves little purpose in combat as you would reveal yourself if you attack and cannot stealth for a few secs, breaking the chain.

ViolentOyster.7534:

I like how people just say it’s “balanced” without that even being the point here. The point is Stealth, which is basically the Speciality of thief is getting stolen by a mage that can make clones and teleport a whole team too. #ClonesForThieves

So what, perma stealth is overrated in sPvP because you can’t do much with it.

Summoning 3 phantasms and then sitting afk in stealth while they rip through your opponent is currently super hard (note my sarcasm).

Seriously, this doesn’t change anything. You can already afk-win most fights just by taking out a couple of izerkers (with the help of signet) + another random phantasm then sitting in the super long traited stealth. Even if the opponent kills your phantasms, they will have eaten 15k+ damage at that point and are a simple Mind Wrack away from death.

I wanted to reply on amazing 3 phantasms ether signet full stealth PU OP 15k+ dmg build but i cant, because its so amazing i cant stop laughing. Please, lets not stop on this, lets go further to deeps not discovered by any pr0 level(or sane for that matter) mesmer!

3 phantasmal defender stealth tactic! You cant kill them because they have sooo much hp(and Shields!) and will kill you dealing over 16k+ dmg! And its party support, when in 5v5 it soaks all damage from all allies too making them immortal! And mesmer offc whole time capping from stealth while enemies are astounded by amazing look of Phantasmal Defenders! Its perfect!