Guild Wars 2

Ravenmoon.5318:

Curunen.8729:

This might sound weird but I find Ele difficult to play – I think zerker ele builds take a lot of skill.

This is what I don’t understand when I read posts like this.

Power ele and thief are ultimately broken. They take as much skill as any other broken bottom tier profession.

Thief is kind of okay to play if there werent so many random condis and ccs and even passive damages flying around.

Good players prevail with these classes not because of the classes themselves but simply because they outclass their opponent.

These days, thief 1on1 is pretty much who’s going to make more consecutive successive crits. And playing warrior 1on1 is pretty much more about tricking and playing the opponent rather than being mechanically superior.

In case there is any misunderstanding, yes, I do agree that thief and power ele and warrior currently are difficult to play but that’s only because they are poorly balanced to the point of being broken.

Shoutbow warrior was difficult to play but an average shoutbow was almost just as good with the silly celestial amulet.

Hambow was pretty easy to pickup, most effects came from firing off weapon abilities anyway.

There’s certainly skill involved but if someone is going to be good with thief/ele/war/power mes … well lets not kid ourselves, they’re going to be good with other professions as well. They have the necessary map awareness and knowledge when and where to intervene to tilt the battle in their favor.

One on one with those professions between average and good there’s basically hardly any difference, beside RNG (crits)

Well then if we go by that, it’s impossible to quantify which classes take the most or least skill because there are always some extremely difficult (ie broken/bad) builds on all classes.

You can throw together all sorts of extremely challenging traits and weapons to handicap yourself – even mesmer has this. Could try playing x/Focus + x/Pistol, zerker Domination/Duelling/Chaos Chaotic Interruption/Power Block with a full bar of mantras and using Harmonius Mantras.

So I don’t see what you’re getting at given it has to be subjective.

The real answer is they all require the same. Not any single one is any more or less complex to play than the others.

Pyriall.1683:

The real answer is they all require the same. Not any single one is any more or less complex to play than the others.

The only complex class IMO is kit Engineer, where getting the most out of it involves using and timing all the combo fields to max benefit. Some people put Ele up there but IMO that class is just about spamming rotations.

As for most skill, classes/builds that are high risk and reward would benefit the most IMO. Probably glass burst eles/mesmers/thieves.

While Ele has a ton of skills, it just does not seem complex as opposed to just mastering rotations. Half the time I am fighting eles, I feel like they are just going through the motions.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

While Ele has a ton of skills, it just does not seem complex as opposed to just mastering rotations. Half the time I am fighting eles, I feel like they are just going through the motions.

I have seen some crazy good elementalists that did not run standard rotations through the skills. Zerk eles (S/F – S/D) arguably the hardest because they die so easily but when they get their bursts down… they’re amazing. Also there used to be some really good staff elementalists.

roamzero.9486:

Pyriall.1683:

The real answer is they all require the same. Not any single one is any more or less complex to play than the others.

The only complex class IMO is kit Engineer, where getting the most out of it involves using and timing all the combo fields to max benefit. Some people put Ele up there but IMO that class is just about spamming rotations.

As for most skill, classes/builds that are high risk and reward would benefit the most IMO. Probably glass burst eles/mesmers/thieves.

Your description of ele applies to kit engineer. If anything Engineer is more forgiving as you don’t have to deal with attunement swaps on kits. You can go in and out of kits as you see fit. There’s nothing complex about any profession in the game.

Class that takes the most skill is always going to be subjective. Since the only one that takes the most skill is the one that you find most difficult to play.

I’ve only got experience with core specs, and playing as a core thief in this meta, isn’t all that easy, but I couldn’t say it’s the most difficult class for me to play, simply because I grasp the gameplay and enjoy it.

I play all classes on and off. I try my best to learn all of them, because that’s what I do in every game. The challenge for me is to master all of them and be just as good/skilled with all of them.

So I personally find Mesmer to be the hardest. But that’s simply because I can’t really wrap my head around it’s mechanics and rotations. I think part of it is that I’m playing it too power based, and can’t really adapt to the condi gameplay.
It’s a class where I need to step out of my comfort zone and think differently, so it becomes harder and feels more “skill based” to me.

Some pick engineer as the hardest/most skill based class, but for me it isn’t. I find it easier and more enjoyable than mesmer, simply because Engineer feels more straight forward to me. Sure it requires some setups and fields, but it also adds a lot of fun and interesting experimentation which no other class really does.
With Engineer there’s just so many ways to mix and match skills and kits that you can toy with your opponent until it dies.
But with Mesmer, i’m always left wondering what I’m suppose to do. Nothing feels lethal or useful. :/ I just feel stomped.

I’m guessing this is what most feel. The hardest one for you is going to be the one that feels highest on the skill chain.
The only exception is what a someone else mentioned, and that’s winning even with inferior specs/classes.

Since we are now in the realm of discussing, which kind of skill is the best and whether having to make up for the shortcomings of your class is a matter of skill or merely the class being horrible in the first place, let me offer a different perspective on this.
The one skill that is consistent across all classes is the skill of being a good pvp player: Knowing, when to engage, when to run and when to stall, knowing, when to take risks and when to hold back, being able to navigate the map with ease and having efficient time management. It’s the kind of skill that allows a player to read the map perfectly, anticipate rotations and react accordingly.

Now with that, I will lean back and enjoy the fight between people who argue that piling up opportunity costs punish sloppy play on very mobile classes against people who argue that the ability to read the map and make good rotations becomes more important with low mobility classes, since you need to get moving sooner and it’s harder to make decisions.

grabs popcorn

Power ele and thief are ultimately broken. They take as much skill as any other broken bottom tier profession.

Power (marauder?) Tempest seems weak because much of ele’s damage comes from burning, which is universal in the fire attunement across weaponsets. Dagger, scepter, staff, focus, and warhorn all inflict burning, which is the highest damage (but shortest lasting) condition in the game. So if you’re going for a DPS Tempest then mercenary sounds more ideal than marauder due to powering up the burning you have.

i would say a good thief takes skill cause so many blocks and passive traits can kill them in like 2 hits.

Engineer is far from skill base , they have so many passives that support their survival ability thats why Anet had to nerf them.

zinkz.7045:

You are a playing a game aimed at casual players with barely any resource management, with a sort of faux action combat where the vast majority of skills are auto-aimed or require no real aim (melee) and with passives coming out of its kitten and with so many things designed in a way that requires no real thought or skill, to the point they seem designed in a way to assist not so good players, if you think any class in this game takes much in the way of skill, then well…

You said it perfectly kind sir. Compared to many other games GW2’s players are the least competitive in terms of skill and tactics, because GW2 simple don’t require much in those two departments.

no amulet axe axe ranger.
useless thread.

Depends on the Spec. I suppose if you assume “the hardest specs to play” It would look like this:

Thief: Reaction speed
Engi/Ele: Skill rotations
Necro/Ranger/Thief: Positioning

Ect Ect.

Let’s face it though this game is a hell of a lot easier to play now then it was at launch.
With the increase of Auto aiming, Aoe’s, Cleave, Ect This game is pretty much in the hands of the AI.

Highlie.7641:

Depends on the Spec. I suppose if you assume “the hardest specs to play” It would look like this:

Thief: Reaction speed
Engi/Ele: Skill rotations
Necro/Ranger/Thief: Positioning

Ect Ect.

Let’s face it though this game is a hell of a lot easier to play now then it was at launch.
With the increase of Auto aiming, Aoe’s, Cleave, Ect This game is pretty much in the hands of the AI.

LOL and passive, soon enough you wont need to touch the keyboard to play.

Obviously the class you play is the class that takes the most skill.

Mightybird.6034:

Obviously the class you play is the class that takes the most skill.

Nope cause I suck on elementalist, and I still think it requires high mechanical knowledge and skill.

Sirendor.1394:

Mightybird.6034:

Obviously the class you play is the class that takes the most skill.

Nope cause I suck on elementalist, and I still think it requires high mechanical knowledge and skill.

Seeing a lot of thief picks. Not surprised.

Mightybird.6034:

Sirendor.1394:

Mightybird.6034:

Obviously the class you play is the class that takes the most skill.

Nope cause I suck on elementalist, and I still think it requires high mechanical knowledge and skill.

It hurts my head too. :p

I would come back to this game if most classes had a build that did not feel dirty and skill meant being able to easily reduce noobs to dust. Thats not how this game works right now, its just about playing a meta build that trumps over most builds if you care about winning.

Seriously gw2 needs to do something like, “a realm reborn” and solely focus on spvp so the pvp in this game can shine like it deserves to, I see the amazing potential this game has to offer, this games one super solid patch away from becoming god tier pvp, I honestly think the devs know what mainly needs to be done but unfortunately they don’t get to solely focus on pvp because thats apparently not a big selling point of the game, everything must be rushed and there is little time to consider much about poor little spvp… I beg of you anet, throw the idea of what will most likely earn you the most buck and see how far building a patch to support your pvp player base gets you, sell the idea the all mmorpg pvp addicts everywhere because there are a lot of us just begging for that next gen clutch/ skill based pvp.

Grimreaper.5370:

I would come back to this game if most classes had a build that did not feel dirty and skill meant being able to easily reduce noobs to dust. Thats not how this game works right now, its just about playing a meta build that trumps over most builds if you care about winning.

That’s just flat out wrong. Meta builds are strong but if you’re good you will decimate new players on any build.

Thief

Engi, ele, and mes have more complex rotations, but those become much easier with experience and muscle memory. There is definitely still skill involved, but they are all far more forgiving than thief.

Zodryn.4216:

Thief

Engi, ele, and mes have more complex rotations, but those become much easier with experience and muscle memory. There is definitely still skill involved, but they are all far more forgiving than thief.

A truely skill based build is yet to exist imo, I want something that is far too complex for any casual to truely comprehend. I want to feel extremely emersed in the complexity of my build by having multiple options to use in any given scenario which require superior timing, preemptive decision making and/or an understanding of a given situation in order to be effective. I want to feel like im playing a dash of ddr due to quick decision making required to play at an optimal level, the closest thing I have ever felt to this degree of gameplay would probably be when I am playing invoker on dota 2 but thats still not even as complex as I want some builds to become to be honest.

Mightybird.6034:

Grimreaper.5370:

I would come back to this game if most classes had a build that did not feel dirty and skill meant being able to easily reduce noobs to dust. Thats not how this game works right now, its just about playing a meta build that trumps over most builds if you care about winning.

That’s just flat out wrong. Meta builds are strong but if you’re good you will decimate new players on any build.

a lot of meta builds are so forgiving that if a decent at best player vsed an esport player using a bottom tier build it would end in a stalemate at best. I dislike this quite a bit because a lot of those non viable builds out there would be a lot of fun to play if they didnt stink so bad.

Can you imagine how awesome this game would be if every weapon set was viable each with its own unique playstyle?

I think it’s silly to ask for the hardest profession. Way too many variance between builds inside any given profession to all lump them in the same basket. The context also amount for a lot in a build being face roll or very challenging.

Grimreaper.5370:

a lot of meta builds are so forgiving that if a decent at best player vsed an esport player using a bottom tier build it would end in a stalemate at best. I dislike this quite a bit because a lot of those non viable builds out there would be a lot of fun to play if they didnt stink so bad.

Can you imagine how awesome this game would be if every weapon set was viable each with its own unique playstyle?

Again wrong…lots of pros have streamed f2p core builds and still wreck average players… we’ve seen top tier normal players do this as well.

You have clearly not seen a truely unviable build, f2p core builds are not the worst of builds availiable. In fact a couple of them are pretty good still. And regardless of that dude, dont you want all builds to be on an even playing field?

Edit: sorry I should have said not all f2p core builds.

Grimreaper.5370:

You have clearly not seen a truely unviable build, f2p core builds are not the worst of builds availiable. In fact a couple of them are pretty good still.

So your argument is you should essentially be able to ‘no skill’ ‘face-roll’ random pick traits and make any random build and it should be viable? That is totally counter intuitive to you wanting a skillful game.

Maybe try a different game.

Mightybird.6034:

Grimreaper.5370:

You have clearly not seen a truely unviable build, f2p core builds are not the worst of builds availiable. In fact a couple of them are pretty good still.

So your argument is you should essentially be able to ‘no skill’ ‘face-roll’ random pick traits and make any random build and it should be viable? That is totally counter intuitive to you wanting a skillful game.

Maybe try a different game.

Nonono thats not what I am saying, I’m apparently just bad at explaining my self to you. I would really appriciate all weapon sets capable of being viable in a meta sense. They’re not all viable as you probably know, this debate isnt even supposed to be about complete noobs getting owned using meta builds when vsing player x who is a veteran and playing a poorly balanced build. I would greately appriciate all weapon sets recive a build that puts them into a meta state.

Well I tallied up the votes and threw out the silly troll posts and…….

Thief wins. Followed by…

Core Engi and Core Ele.

Grats everyone and thanks for playing.

The hardest build to play is this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7djM0QpNWdDu2AHOOWGK5EUBRANIWiVd+BBwLA-TpRCABCfBAK4gAAwRAIgHAg3lB6f/BA

It requires extreme amounts of talent to even win any games (or 1v1’s). Every other build listed in this thread is a piece of cake by comparison.

Druid imo between pet control, supporting teammates locking down targets and ensuring your own survival I find that pretty difficult along with how longbow 3 2 and 4 work when it comes to the angle you’re on.

Thief in my eyes really comes down to mindset because even if u were to build tanky which from what ik doesn’t work very well if at all you still have to know when to be super aggressive or not like any other class its just stressed for thief. Otherwise you almost have full control over how you set the fight can escape almost at will, I personally see a great deal of thieves thinking they can duke it out in team fights without proper support I really don’t think that’s their strong point. Even in team fights I feel as though they need a marked target go in poke poke poke get out repeat when ready or switch objectives.

As for scrapper I really think that just comes down to learning what each ability does. As they really have something for everything plus the self boon output is very high on numerous boons.

Core eng is similar to scrapper but on a lesser degree which is to be expected as its an expansion profession same thing happens in any other game only thing is when will they be reworked/tunned down.

I really don’t agree with mesmer at least condi mesmer as you can pretty much go in and press random buttons and do pretty well granted u have the right gear set up. As you get better and learn how the class works and other classes weakness it only gets better. Imo it falls into that good when u pick it up and amazing when you learn it.

it depends on your take on skill

I’d say its scrapper because while it makes a great bruiser
Anyone smart enough who Kites and stays mobile will always outmatch the scrapper
all of scrapper’s skills are slow and clunky

I’d say thief is close too but they at least have extreme mobility so in the hands of anyone decent they wont die