[Community Discussion]Rangers
Rangers will forever get shafted until we get a different balance team.
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I’m excited about the poison master, honestly it might be abused a little too… perma poisons no joke.
It opens up the possibility of some interesting builds. Traits lines that were necessary for a ranger in EVERY build now have alternatives. It’s hard to say what difference it will make to rangers, as I’d expect the meta to completely overturn.
Mellowpuff [Champion Hunter]
While I agree that the changes previewed may not spark the start of a beautiful friendship with Rangers, I’m still waiting to see the main patch and if there are more changes.
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Classes in this game aren’t balanced they’re maintained. They want you to figure out for yourself what’s best to play, that’s why they did the equivalent of the Federal Reserve throwing trillions into the economy in this patch.
These new runes and GM traits are there for you to sort out and redefine the classes yourself. Anet doesn’t really care one way or the other what you play, so long as the system works enough for there to be potential for each class to contribute.
They aren’t aiming for balance. They want you to balance the game for them with your building creativity.
It’s the laziest approach I’ve ever seen to game balance and no wonder the HotM on every server is empty.
Classes in this game aren’t balanced they’re maintained. They want you to figure out for yourself what’s best to play, that’s why they did the equivalent of the Federal Reserve throwing trillions into the economy in this patch.
These new runes and GM traits are there for you to sort out and redefine the classes yourself. Anet doesn’t really care one way or the other what you play, so long as the system works enough for there to be potential for each class to contribute.
They aren’t aiming for balance. They want you to balance the game for them with your building creativity.
It’s the laziest approach I’ve ever seen to game balance and no wonder the HotM on every server is empty.
Wow… sounds like you had a lot on your chest there. Does anyone else hold this opinion? If so… why?
I’m excited about the poison master, honestly it might be abused a little too… perma poisons no joke.
It sounds a lot better than it is. Poison does incredibly low damage, even in full condition damage builds.
The increased application may sound nice, but poison is already very easy to maintain.
I don’t have very high hopes for what this patch will do for rangers in sPvP, but I think the degree of improvement with pets will really be the deciding factor in whether a non-spirit build will make it into the meta.
I’ve seen some very effective non-spirit rangers in PvP.
Trap condi ranger can be quite deadly.
And zerker longbow…. yea 9/10 are total newb, but the 1/10 that plays it well is really nasty and effective.
“Nature Magic: Survival of the fittest – Remove two conditions and gain fury when using a survival skill.”
During one moment i was dreaming about the rebirth of the beastmaster build, but nah it will be good only if it was every 10sec not 32 with reduced CD… (lighting reflexes)
Don’t forget ANET => Empathic bond ( 3 remove condit every 10sec) is the main thing who block all the builds…
So need more remove condition : on renewal signet or other skill / mastery or just drop empathic bond to Master, or remove 2 condition on every cry in beastmastery.
At least it will give fresh air in all competitive pvp build…
Power ranger is very close. The biggest changes though, need to be addressed with thieves and not necessarily buffs to rangers.
i hope, that some more things will follow for the ranger from the cdi….changes need development time, i guess
and if you believe it, or not, but there will be some new builds with the new traits…duno now, if strong enough to be competetive
to explain the extent of how Survival of the fittest works;
Muddy terrain 20(25) CD – Immob + cripple, now also cleansing 2 condies + fury
Lightning Reflexes 32(40) CD – evade + stunbreak + immob removal + 2 condies cleansed + fury
Sharpening Stone + Keen Edge Trait 36(45) – next 5 attacks apply bleeding, + 2 condies cleansed + fury
Quickening Zephyr 48(60) CD – 6 sec quickness + 2 condies cleansed + fury
Entangle (elite) 120(150) CD – 14x 1 second immob, 14x 1 stack of bleeding, 14x RAW damage + 2 condies cleansed + fury
In total, we now got an additional 6x active cleanses, massive boost to already perma fury uptime and a pet that is working.
Invigorating bond will probably be THE most defining trait alongside SotF. Working pets, direct heal on pet F2…. Trust me, BM still works just fine, but now, we can spec for high hp, high boon duration, high active cleanse rather then just tank tank tank.
EDIT: i think the new BM meta will either be 10(2)/0/30(6)/0/30(6) or 0/0/10(2)/30(6)/30(6). And i definetively think murwellow (dat ugly bear) will play a larger part. Imagine Poison master, with a responsive pet that can deploy a poison field the size of a capture node… That field lasts 7 seconds. It may not be the best “deterrent” but coupled with muddy terrain, bonfire (torch 5, traited, it is slightly smaller then a node) and heal on pet F2, i can see the BM entering a sub-support node control role. Where you basically just roams from node to node, controlling the outcome of the fight by denying movement, healing and dealing strong burning + poison damage/tick.
time will show. For now, all we can do is wait
EDIT2: Murwellow is a bear, and a traited BM Bear will not go down quickly unless focused by multiple people. Therefore, aslong as the responsiveness on F2 is as amazing as Anet claims, i can say that this particular bear will be the ugliest, yet most facinating pet to test out. This also apply to my expectations for it in WvW, where i know it is already a nice companion to have when fighting in chokepoints.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
(edited by Prysin.8542)
i still don’t get what your fascination is with that poison trait.
Its the equiv of adding 1 stack of bleed to your damage.
You’re pretty much better off going with Spiders for the fact they can apply multiple conditions, and most importantly, every 20 seconds a bloody 4 second Immobilize.
Also there is nothing wrong with BM Builds right now…BM Build will still stomp on most classes rather easily.
Xsorus – Ranger PvP movies Creator of the BM Bunker
More damage is always better then less damage. No need to discuss that. It is what it is.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
More damage is always better then less damage. No need to discuss that. It is what it is.
What? You…do realize this is the sPvP forums and not the Dungeon forums, right?
Tell that to a bunker, lol. Even if you are building a damage-focused build, the poison trait is still weaker than taking Empathetic Bond.
I’m excited about the poison master, honestly it might be abused a little too… perma poisons no joke.
It sounds a lot better than it is. Poison does incredibly low damage, even in full condition damage builds.
The increased application may sound nice, but poison is already very easy to maintain.
I don’t have very high hopes for what this patch will do for rangers in sPvP, but I think the degree of improvement with pets will really be the deciding factor in whether a non-spirit build will make it into the meta.
Well if poison is all you bring, you deserve to be 1 shotted… any one who wants to play a condition spec knows to take more than 1 condition to the fight. I’m not saying all you take is a poison. With high up time you practically get a free bleed or torment damage along with your poison, is it great? no. But is it better than what we have now, yes! I see your point though.
I sorta wonder if the 50% also affects heals because then this would be a beast (83% heal reduction? yes please) , although I don’t think that is the case for this trait.
More damage is always better then less damage. No need to discuss that. It is what it is.
What? You…do realize this is the sPvP forums and not the Dungeon forums, right?
Tell that to a bunker, lol. Even if you are building a damage-focused build, the poison trait is still weaker than taking Empathetic Bond.
I generally stay away from dungeons, they consume too much time, for too low a reward.
Anyway, the way i build my char, i go for max tank first, then look at how i can optimize damage without sacrificing defense. the BM builds may be a bad example, but a trapper running sigil of purity on both weapon sets + lyssa/melandru should do well enough to manage.
Poison is strong. Just because it cannot do 2500 damage/tick like bleeding does, does not mean it is weak. When you have permanent uptime, any boost to that “permanent” part is a direct DPS increase.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
More damage is always better then less damage. No need to discuss that. It is what it is.
What? You…do realize this is the sPvP forums and not the Dungeon forums, right?
Tell that to a bunker, lol. Even if you are building a damage-focused build, the poison trait is still weaker than taking Empathetic Bond.
I generally stay away from dungeons, they consume too much time, for too low a reward.
Anyway, the way i build my char, i go for max tank first, then look at how i can optimize damage without sacrificing defense. the BM builds may be a bad example, but a trapper running sigil of purity on both weapon sets + lyssa/melandru should do well enough to manage.Poison is strong. Just because it cannot do 2500 damage/tick like bleeding does, does not mean it is weak. When you have permanent uptime, any boost to that “permanent” part is a direct DPS increase.
Yes, 50% increased damage poison is better than regular poison, but 50% increased damage poison is not better than 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds.
And even if you do keep up poison permanently, you’re still only getting the damage of a stack or two of bleeding permanently, which is very low compared to the DPS increase of other traits that often require much less than a grandmaster investment.
Doesn’t poison prevent 33% of healing? That affects total damage.
I.e., health bar drop.
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
Doesn’t poison prevent 33% of healing? That affects total damage.
I.e., health bar drop.
Yes, but you don’t need a grandmaster trait for that. There are many ways to keep up 100% or near 100% poison duration on your target without such a high cost, such as using shortbow #2 at point blank range.
The 50% damage increase from the trait also has no affect on the heal reduction aspect of poison.
The problem with Ranger is that its design philosophy is set in stone by the devs as a “sustained damage pet class”.
This model is extremely limiting, and I find it odd that Necromancer was designed as an “attrition-style” profession, yet they have so much versatility at their disposal when it comes to build diversity.
“sustained damage pet class”_.
AKA Spirit Build.
“sustained damage pet class”_.
AKA Spirit Build.
AKA cancer.
Was hoping that power builds would be interesting. 30/0/10/30/0. But then I remembered that longbow cd is in skirmishing…….
This proff badly needs some trait compression.
If they were serious about build diversity, then they would move empathic bond to a 20 or even 10 point trait as Rivebise pointed out
On the positive side, they may have allowed for a bunker build that is pretty much immune to conditions……cough cough
(edited by dylan.5409)
Doesn’t poison prevent 33% of healing? That affects total damage.
I.e., health bar drop.
Yes, but you don’t need a grandmaster trait for that. There are many ways to keep up 100% or near 100% poison duration on your target without such a high cost, such as using shortbow #2 at point blank range.
The 50% damage increase from the trait also has no affect on the heal reduction aspect of poison.
sword + dagger is infinitive better at keeping up poison.
Shortbow in point blank range will get you killed unless your enemy is missing both legs and eyes.
The point is that with +50% damage and 100% upkeep, you will no longer be able to just quietly ignore it as today.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
“sustained damage pet class”_.
AKA Spirit Build.
AKA cancer.
AKA a weak class for another year
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Was hoping that power builds would be interesting. 30/0/10/30/0. But then I remembered that longbow cd is in skirmishing…….
This proff badly needs some trait compression.
If they were serious about build diversity, then they would move empathic bond to a 20 or even 10 point trait as Rivebise pointed out
On the positive side, they may have allowed for a bunker build that is pretty much immune to conditions……cough cough
Yea, the longbow has some great potential for PvP, but so much of its effectiveness is tied to traits.
Want to get long range? You’ll need at least 20 in Marks for Eagle Eye.
Want arrows to pierce? You’ll need at least 20 in Marks for Piercing Arrows.
Want your arrows to actually hit their target? You’ll need 30 points in marks and will have to sacrifice piercing or long range (on top of several other good marks traits).
Want to get a lower cd on the weapon skills? You’ll need another 20 in marks.
And now congrats…you’ve spent 50 of your 70 talent points in pure DPS trees, leaving you almost no traits to keep you alive in PvP. Meanwhile, a mesmer will be able to do all of the above (aside from the 1500 range) on their greatsword with only 20 points. If they skip the cd reduction, they don’t have to trait a single talent point to get piercing and instant hits (that can’t be reflected).
First of all, I’d like to preface this by saying I do not play a Ranger.
With that in mind, you may want to take my words with a grain of salt…
Warning: My arguments henceforth are probably flawed and unwarranted…
I digress…
It’s pretty clear that the majority of the community thinks that Rangers (in their current state) needs the most love in terms of buffs. (Heck, we discursively voted on it.)
Now with that in mind… the upcoming changes for Rangers:
Keen Edge This trait now classified as Survival.
Sun Spirit: Fixed a bug that caused the spirit to have a 3 second base burn when triggered by projectile.
Spirit of Nature: Reduced healing per second when summoned from 480 to 320.
Viper’s Nest: This ability is now a poison field.Trapper’s Expertise: Fixed bug where thrown traps now work placed on certain building.
Lightning Reflexes: This skill now removes immobilize.
Pet: Improved pet responsiveness and pet skills response.
Bug Fixes!
Marksmanship: Read the Wind: Longbow and Harpoon Gun projectile velocity is increased by 100%.
Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.
Wilderness Survival : Poison Master – Poison you apply deals 50% extra damage. Poison your pet’s first attack when they are swapped to.
Nature Magic: Survival of the fittest – Remove two conditions and gain fury when using a survival skill.
Beast Mastery: Invigorating Bond- Your pet heals in an area when executing command abilities (i.e. your F2 skill now heals in an area)
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Now…Once more…
I’m no expert on Rangers, so if I’m speaking out of line… please forgive my ignorance. But those changes don’t seem… sufficient?
To be honest, they don’t even seem functional with any “meta worthy” builds. (at least in my eyes.)
Am I wrong? I’d be happy to know that I am. I would sincerely hate for Rangers to get shafted in this balance patch and stuck in the dumps yet again.
Community feedback is highly encouraged in this thread.
Kind Regards,
Jasher, Grouch’s best friend.
For all of you who disagreed, argued, and literally fought with me when I told you that this patch would not bring any huge changes to the range class even though anet said there were huge changes coming for Ranger and that they just couldn’t say anything yet…i told you so.
Voïce
I was hoping to get a lot more feedback than this. How do the really hardcore top 50 players feel about this?
Doesn’t poison prevent 33% of healing? That affects total damage.
I.e., health bar drop.
Yes, but you don’t need a grandmaster trait for that. There are many ways to keep up 100% or near 100% poison duration on your target without such a high cost, such as using shortbow #2 at point blank range.
The 50% damage increase from the trait also has no affect on the heal reduction aspect of poison.
sword + dagger is infinitive better at keeping up poison.
Shortbow in point blank range will get you killed unless your enemy is missing both legs and eyes.
The point is that with +50% damage and 100% upkeep, you will no longer be able to just quietly ignore it as today.
If you want you can keep a 100% uptime Today. +50% damag sounds good, but it is 100 damage per second increase on 1200 condition damage. I would call it insignificant, and to be honest poison should have received some added functionality, not a damage buff.
Elona Bonechill – Necro / Fionna Gymirdottier – Guard /// RoF
I was hoping to get a lot more feedback than this. How do the really hardcore top 50 players feel about this?
I am by no means a top player, but the reason I feel your post did not garner much response is that in PvP, ranger has not been considered a lower tier class for quite some time. Ranger is one of the best home point defenders in the game. has good team support and is tough in one vs. ones. It is rare to see top teams not having a space for a spirit ranger. The biggest problem ranger faced in PvP was the lack of build diversity – which is something most classes suffer from when it comes to discussing viable options at the top tiers of play.
The upcoming patch dows nerf the overpowered spirit heal, but otherwide does little to change the current “meta” build. The new traits themselves do not appear to be game changing, and the best buffs will be pet responsiveness and the change to Lightning Reflexes. Also, since Rangers can stack precision very well, there may be some evolution of other builds once we see how the change in runes and sigils turn out. Hope that helps.