Guild Wars 2

Pixid.2817:

Sunshine.5014:

Pixid.2817:

Josh Davis.6015:

According to our logs, the person playing as “Sam” was not the owner of the account

Out of curiosity, how do you find this information out. I know you wont say details, but it makes me question my privacy.

It’s very easy to find out. First, you look at the login history. Second, check the keybinds. Third, check the playstyle/build (and things like the order of utility slots). Finally, observe the game and deliver the ban hammer.

I thought maybe it was a bit more involved, because it was so high profile. I hope it was, kind of.

It gets fairly complicated. All you need to know is that when we send keystrokes to the game we are sending data to anets servers and for us to see other people doing things in game those servers send data to us. In order for our devices to communicate both of them need to know where to send data to – aka a geographical location.

Before all that it has to go through our routers which does all the framing and packetizing stuff (the steps are kind of like sending mail irl). The key thing is that this sends the general public ip, and from there you get the port (specifying which device) and maybe even the mech id of which device.

All-in-all, there are lots of stand alone unique identifiers sent along with the packets. What they most likely saw was player A was playing in BC, then started playing in Alberta and then back to BC. It could be looked into with more detail, but that’s already pretty obvious.

Gokil.2543:

This would be sad if it wasn’t also hilarious.

Taken from reddit:

[–]manny2494 St Platano.9271
How does ANet find out that another person was using one of the team member’s accounts?

[–]Joshua_Davis Grouch
I can’t get into the specifics, unfortunately.
That said, planning a scheme such as this entirely through in-game chat is generally not advised.

That’s just too much. I need a moment to breathe.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

Chris Cleary.8017:

we know, and we will be watching.

Clearly Cleary was born in 1984.

Sunshine.5014:

Pixid.2817:

Josh Davis.6015:

According to our logs, the person playing as “Sam” was not the owner of the account

Out of curiosity, how do you find this information out. I know you wont say details, but it makes me question my privacy.

It’s very easy to find out. First, you look at the login history. Second, check the keybinds. Third, check the playstyle/build (and things like the order of utility slots). Finally, observe the game and deliver the ban hammer.

Probably IP actually but yeah.

SteepledHat.1345:

Only a temporary ban… I’m surprised. Guess the community is too small to actually punish them.

Entire 2016 proleague season is pretty long. Also claim will be quote “revisited”. Of course this is a punishment.

Zuik.7158:

Gratz misha.

Finally best mesmer in proleague by a long shot.

Was already imo

Pixid.2817:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixid.2817:

Josh Davis.6015:

According to our logs, the person playing as “Sam” was not the owner of the account

Out of curiosity, how do you find this information out. I know you wont say details, but it makes me question my privacy.

IP most likely. There may be an ID associated with a PC (like with iPhones) or the game application that gets sent back to Anet.

I assume they saw an IP discrepancy, I’m more curious how that turned into knowing what happened, or if it was all just assumptions.

It cannot be IP since they are not allowed to see individual IP’s. Better yet, alot of ISP’s are delivering 1 public IP for a whole street through NAT. So basically blocking 1 IP can eventually block a whole street.

I can believe in some mix-ID of IP and hardware info (such as MAC or anything else).

Good thing they banned them.
2 – 3 of them alted ALOT in AG EU and it was demotivating since we couldn’t do anything. Even when they were being blunt honest about it afterwards.

They should all be perma-banned if you ask me.

1 of them got banned from a tournament before for something familiar (BJ) and he excused himself right away afterwards but still..

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Quadox.7834:

SteepledHat.1345:

Only a temporary ban… I’m surprised. Guess the community is too small to actually punish them.

Entire 2016 proleague season is pretty long. Also claim will be quote “revisited”. Of course this is a punishment.

More importantly, a lot of companies realized that suspension is a more effective punishment than perma-ban: people are vert motivated to maintain access to their original accounts; all too often, the banned will start a new account and repeat the same behaviors with impunity, since the cost of getting caught is less.

tl;dr turns out banning isn’t as much a punishment as our intuition suggests

Oh I miss you guys

So would I be flagged for account sharing if I remoted into a PC in another state on the other side of the US and logged onto GW2, then logged in later on my laptop where I was? Just curious since I use wake-on-lan, a remote desktop tool, and a no-ip hostname so I can access my PC from my phone anytime and anywhere, I use this typically just for logging in for daily rewards when I can’t get onto my PC or laptop. It seems to me like it could be possible to be wrongly flagged for account sharing in such a scenario where you can potentially log in from a IP in another state or country.

I’m not debating your decision in a tournament situation, but I would guess the system for checking this is based on IP location and time between log ins, which is why if you were to remote in to a PC at a IP that was geographically distant from my current location and play gw2 then switch to a laptop and play you would easily be flagged

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

I know you think you know, but really you need to check to see if people change the account’s keybinds, because there’s people like me who travel and have installed the gw2 client on machines besides my own personal one’s. So you can’t just rely on changes in location informaiton, or mac addresses.

But people don’t have to change the keybinds on the GW2 account you can get a 3rd party keybind mapper to be an invisible bridge to make keybinds what you want them, which unless the GW2 client is able to tap into Mac, Linux, and Windows process mangement can’t be detected.

In this particular case though, I’m sure it was strange that the same IP address was being used for two accounts that normally use different IP addresses. Frostball should have called his ISP and had them give him a new IP lease or just gone to some other internet conneciton. Do your research next time kids.

ddos = no problem
switch teams in midle of pvp season = no problem
little wierd

read through the thread again, they literally planned this out to the extent of “typing out their evil plan in game chat, where surely the mods cannot see”

Snowfox.3510:

ddos = no problem
switch teams in midle of pvp season = no problem
little wierd

You do understand this wasn’t team switching right?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

So can we assume that the max penalty for any account sharing is a 1 year ban and accounts can be reinstated after it?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

Maybe you should also take action if people from the achievement leaderboard do this. There are several people in the top 25 getting unfair advantages by account sharing and one of them is even a partner of Anet and gets privileges like unlimited free server transfers without cooldowns.

Shockwave.1230:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

I know you think you know, but really you need to check to see if people change the account’s keybinds, because there’s people like me who travel and have installed the gw2 client on machines besides my own personal one’s. So you can’t just rely on changes in location informaiton, or mac addresses.

But people don’t have to change the keybinds on the GW2 account you can get a 3rd party keybind mapper to be an invisible bridge to make keybinds what you want them, which unless the GW2 client is able to tap into Mac, Linux, and Windows process mangement can’t be detected.

In this particular case though, I’m sure it was strange that the same IP address was being used for two accounts that normally use different IP addresses. Frostball should have called his ISP and had them give him a new IP lease or just gone to some other internet conneciton. Do your research next time kids.

There is not only ip adresses you can use to identify account sharing. Each part of your computer like HDD, GPU, CPU have unique serial numbers anet can use to identify and even make hardware bans.

Yo, congrats you played yourself (DJ Khaled Voice)

[DJ KHALED] Congratulations you played yourself

Anet evens the score after CC got away with it at PAX Seattle.

Wow the comments and memes got incredibility funny in this thread

Rym.1469:

credits to Magno

That’s the Swedish cash grab right there. Dem bois be laughing all the way to the bank. And look at ROM, so dapper in his tie. What a lad.

Rym.1469:

credits to Magno

This made my day. Thank you for your amazing photoshop skills

That BMW though. So pretty.

Malediktus.9250:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

Maybe you should also take action if people from the achievement leaderboard do this. There are several people in the top 25 getting unfair advantages by account sharing and one of them is even a partner of Anet and gets privileges like unlimited free server transfers without cooldowns.

Shockwave.1230:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Account sharing comes with certain risks, which is why we have a rule against it. Normally we don’t action against it (unless one of the parties was doing bad things). Doing it during a tournament is a bad idea.

I’ll make something very clear. When you share your account, we know. You can try to hide it, but we know, and we will be watching.

I know you think you know, but really you need to check to see if people change the account’s keybinds, because there’s people like me who travel and have installed the gw2 client on machines besides my own personal one’s. So you can’t just rely on changes in location informaiton, or mac addresses.

But people don’t have to change the keybinds on the GW2 account you can get a 3rd party keybind mapper to be an invisible bridge to make keybinds what you want them, which unless the GW2 client is able to tap into Mac, Linux, and Windows process mangement can’t be detected.

In this particular case though, I’m sure it was strange that the same IP address was being used for two accounts that normally use different IP addresses. Frostball should have called his ISP and had them give him a new IP lease or just gone to some other internet conneciton. Do your research next time kids.

There is not only ip adresses you can use to identify account sharing. Each part of your computer like HDD, GPU, CPU have unique serial numbers anet can use to identify and even make hardware bans.

I have like …. 3 computers. All with different hardware setups ranging from intel to amd to nvidia. A computer at the office I sometimes login too. If ANet tracked every person that is like me they’d be doing proof reading 99.99% of the time

A far easier approach would be to monitor client settings. I mean .. if you play your account your way and I play my account my way and you log into my account with your keybinds and settings it becomes clear that I’m not on any of my computers right now and instead play from remote location. Which MIGHT still be okay as in … if I’m guesting at your house and just want to show you “something”

So you see…they get the reports but it’s not as easy as you describe it. There are perfectly valid reasons to login from different computers all the time. Your opinion is shortsighted.

My latest “account share” was with my girlfriend, whos outside of the country atm but wanted gems but didn’t want to use her own credit card so I logged into her account, bought the gems and signed off.

I’m not banned for it. And I’d be surprised if I was.

Wouldn’t it be awesome if ANet kept average CPM for every player? (clicks per minute) some of the time this could be seen as digital DNA for some players.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I was told Frostball was the best pro mes.

Yet all I see is a scrub XD

That’s debatable. Maybe in EU. Personally I think Supcutie is the best mesmer. I might have misspelled that

Glad to see ANet enforcing bad behavior. I was wondering if all my reports about gold sellers were falling on deaf ears.

Yet you can still DDOS with impunity and fake DC all day long and get away with it. Super is the biggest fake DC expert though so yeh…

O and you can also get eliminated from the tournament, jump teams mid season and get into the “lan playoffs”.

Yannir.4132:

That’s debatable. Maybe in EU. Personally I think Supcutie is the best mesmer.

Loool

https://gyazo.com/7e9ee9066ec64f4774d6ff69d535c9d1 They’re coming

Credits to Prince Vingador

To those freaking out about the whole account sharing and logging in from different PCs:

I work as a security engineer, and I can say with pretty high confidence they can’t tell with absolute certainty that an account is being shared. It’s not technically feasible. They have to operate off of a lot of circumstantial evidence. I can almost guarantee you they Splunk their logs and cross correlate off of that. (Hopefully they aren’t using ELK or logstash).

IP address alone isn’t enough because, as some of you pointed out a lot of our infrastructure uses NATing. So a publicly routable address can correspond to many RFC1918 addresses.

Geo-location data against time is usually a good indicator (i.e. logging in from somewhere at one point in time, and in an infeasible amount of time for a human to fly logging in from another geographic location), but as some people have pointed out wake-on-LAN and remote tunneling/RDP are issues with that.

Key binding data can help, but most people playing on someone else’s account aren’t going to take the time to unbind and rebind everything unless it is something competitive (like it was in this case).

Average time of clicks could be implemented, but the logs for that could get astronomical (you could maintain an average on the client, but feasibly doing this would be a nightmare and vastly inaccurate).

Hardware queries are definitely possible, but people have various computers that they play on (I know I use both my desktop, and my laptops to play when I travel) so again this can be inaccurate.

A big one they probably use is of no surprise: Chat logs. People type differently, use different slang/acronymns, and a lot of people are stupid enough to type about their “transgressions” in chat. That is how they will catch you most of the time, and it is the most accurate way of catching someone. But keep in mind this method, while the most reliable, takes time. You can write AI programs to delve through these logs and track differences (there’s some open source code that would help with this), but a lot of the time it is a manual process. The main take-a-way is that they will use this when they have a reason to dig into an account. It doesn’t happen naturally (unless they employ some sort of machine AI that looks for differences). Most likely they look for keywords in your chat and store that data or flat/report on it.

Main thing is: No they aren’t all powerful like they want you to believe, so you don’t have to panic about using several machines to log in. If you are doing something bad and they have inclination to find you, they can probably find enough circumstantial evidence to ban you.

It is easy to see account sharing if you combine the usual ip ranges an account gets accessed by plus hardware serials.
Example:
Person X is usually plays from the same network and computer but every now and then the account gets accessed by networks/computers identical to people from your guild or friendlist. That should be very easy to track and I am sure Anet is using hardware detection already considering all my 30 accounts were banned when they mistakenly suspected me to be involved in RMT. (And in GW1 it was even more obvious that some people got hardware banned)
Another thing account sharers often do is staying in invisible mode or not answering whispers during account sharing sessions. If people have you on friendlist it is very easy to see if they are in invisible mode or really offline.

There must be more to it than that, I play from two different computers in two different countries quite often, even use different key binds because I have a gaming mouse in one place and just a regular one in the other. None of that is against their rules or user agreement as far as I know.

Shinzan.2908:

There must be more to it than that, I play from two different computers in two different countries quite often, even use different key binds because I have a gaming mouse in one place and just a regular one in the other. None of that is against their rules or user agreement as far as I know.

Yeah, like I said: without taking the time to really dig into an account, they can’t tell. It’s just a scare tactic to say that they can tell. And there are a lot of armchair incident response people in this thread.

One thing I should clarify, however, is that this shouldn’t be confused with telling when two accounts are “linked” to a similar user. That’s MUCH easier to tell in the logs than who is sitting behind the keyboard. So thinking you can hide behind an alternate account is foolish.

Shinzan.2908:

There must be more to it than that, I play from two different computers in two different countries quite often, even use different key binds because I have a gaming mouse in one place and just a regular one in the other. None of that is against their rules or user agreement as far as I know.

As Chris said it is against the rules to account share, but they wont do anything if not additional rules are broken at the same time. If you access the game from several countries/computers it might look like account sharing, but they wont do anything.

I hadnt heard about this until the twitch feed today.

I don’t condone this in any way. I can however see why this was considered by frost considering what happened with the obvious targeted ddos in the “vital” match and when nothing was done to correct it. VM had a legitimate beef that is going to cost them $ and I guess frost thought this was the only way to correct that (which was wrong and he has been punished for it). Assuming that all of CC got banned Im taking it that they were all involved in this too. I take it that CC don’t get the last place finish cash too surely?
What I can say is how stupid can you be to chat about it in game… seriously…that’s like going and sitting in the police station and discussing the bank heist you are planning.

This 2nd season has been ruined with the ddos, the mid season transfers from a losing side to a winning side and now this. RIP GW2 esports

As I have already mentioned in another thread, I fully agree with the decisions made by Anet.
The behaviour by Argi during the interview on the stream was highly unprofessional.
He was wearing his heart on his sleeve, which is a privilege or youth, but this was just shortsighted.
If he and his team do not wish to play GW2 ESL, they should quit and make place for people who wish to do so.
No respect for that kind of behaviour.

Matisse.9356:

As I have already mentioned in another thread, I fully agree with the decisions made by Anet.
The behaviour by Argi during the interview on the stream was highly unprofessional.
He was wearing his heart on his sleeve, which is a privilege or youth, but this was just shortsighted.
If he and his team do not wish to play GW2 ESL, they should quit and make place for people who wish to do so.
No respect for that kind of behaviour.

That interview resumes what gw2 has become, a joke.

Not even these so called pro players take this game seriously, there’s not competitive scene just a bunch of kids trying hard with builds that carry them, that’s all sadly.

To be honest as a player and also as viewer there’s not reason to watch or play gw2 anymore, chat is the only reason why half of the people watch it and that’s so sad.

What else can we say… this game is ded.

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Im completely fine with you posting this and i appreciate you giving insight on your feelings towards it.

Though it goes back to everything ive ever said about Pro Leagues and the people in it.

You guys are kids, you are talking about fair and the rules. Anyone whos played a real sport competitively knows the ref doesnt always make the right calls and most of the time the sponsor tries to do it better the next time instead of back tracking.

You brought up money, so lets just put this back into perspective. You guys get paid to play a game. You dont give your bodys to the game. You give time/mind and you can easily move on. Also you guys get to pick how much time you put into it.

I watched some of the Pro League today and you heard the Vermillion player crying and you had other Pro League player commenting what did you expect?

How about for people getting payed to play the game to not be babies. Anet didnt help with there poor job of establishing rules/roster/ trades etc etc.

So i guess overall i agree, Anet really needs to think about this Esport thing because its a bit hard to look at.

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

No trashtalk from me, I understand your reasoning – I agree that what happened with VM was wrong and the finals will not now be with the strongest teams. I hope your exams went well.

VM is a good team. They got an unlucky break on the DDOS.

That said, I hope the rest of VM wasn’t part of the dirty play by frost. If you were, VM should have been banned as well. Personally, I would have given frost a lifetime ban from gw2. He doesn’t deserve to compete again.

kdaddy.5431:

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Im completely fine with you posting this and i appreciate you giving insight on your feelings towards it.

Though it goes back to everything ive ever said about Pro Leagues and the people in it.

You guys are kids, you are talking about fair and the rules. Anyone whos played a real sport competitively knows the ref doesnt always make the right calls and most of the time the sponsor tries to do it better the next time instead of back tracking.

You brought up money, so lets just put this back into perspective. You guys get paid to play a game. You dont give your bodys to the game. You give time/mind and you can easily move on. Also you guys get to pick how much time you put into it.

I watched some of the Pro League today and you heard the Vermillion player crying and you had other Pro League player commenting what did you expect?

How about for people getting payed to play the game to not be babies. Anet didnt help with there poor job of establishing rules/roster/ trades etc etc.

So i guess overall i agree, Anet really needs to think about this Esport thing because its a bit hard to look at.

Wanna emphasize that a lot of the gw2 pvp population are kids.. too much drama.

^^^ i had to make the comment because i saw that PvtFrosty made a thread about the state of EU Pro League.

Bluri told sam here above to stop.

So obviously you have a whole bunch of people who all know each other and cry. Its simply bickering and complaining when not getting there way. even if the viewer ship is small they could of at least acted decent.

The fact that they didnt kind of proves what you say.

StickerHappy.8052:

kdaddy.5431:

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Im completely fine with you posting this and i appreciate you giving insight on your feelings towards it.

Though it goes back to everything ive ever said about Pro Leagues and the people in it.

You guys are kids, you are talking about fair and the rules. Anyone whos played a real sport competitively knows the ref doesnt always make the right calls and most of the time the sponsor tries to do it better the next time instead of back tracking.

You brought up money, so lets just put this back into perspective. You guys get paid to play a game. You dont give your bodys to the game. You give time/mind and you can easily move on. Also you guys get to pick how much time you put into it.

I watched some of the Pro League today and you heard the Vermillion player crying and you had other Pro League player commenting what did you expect?

How about for people getting payed to play the game to not be babies. Anet didnt help with there poor job of establishing rules/roster/ trades etc etc.

So i guess overall i agree, Anet really needs to think about this Esport thing because its a bit hard to look at.

Wanna emphasize that a lot of the gw2 pvp population are kids.. too much drama.

What does Drama have to do with kids? I love drama, it spices things up.
The ability to act like an adult if necessary isn´t limited to adults. Adults themselves are incapable to behave reasonable in a lot of cases, too.
At the same time I think being childish once in a while or deep inside you lets you actually enjoy games like that. Being childish all the time and in wrong moments is something different.

To the topic. I don´t enjoy watching proleague since the ddos on frostball. All the kitten that happened afterwards moved it further away from being interesting.

Vermillion is far better currently then TCG imo (don´t kow how the scrims went, so many secrets :P – Helseth claimed that they won most scrims last season, but weren´t able to show that when it mattered), so TCG being on second place now isn´t anywhere ok for (and don´t understand me wrong, I have nothing explicitly against TCG or ANY other proleague team. All my interest goes into having a entertaining proleague I actually enjoy watching (and there were some great matches at the beginning of this season). vM vs TCG debacle, oRNG – TCG debacle, CC – Frostball debacle. What we end with is exactly one team I like to watch right now and that is 55.

Coronit.9432:

StickerHappy.8052:

kdaddy.5431:

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Im completely fine with you posting this and i appreciate you giving insight on your feelings towards it.

Though it goes back to everything ive ever said about Pro Leagues and the people in it.

You guys are kids, you are talking about fair and the rules. Anyone whos played a real sport competitively knows the ref doesnt always make the right calls and most of the time the sponsor tries to do it better the next time instead of back tracking.

You brought up money, so lets just put this back into perspective. You guys get paid to play a game. You dont give your bodys to the game. You give time/mind and you can easily move on. Also you guys get to pick how much time you put into it.

I watched some of the Pro League today and you heard the Vermillion player crying and you had other Pro League player commenting what did you expect?

How about for people getting payed to play the game to not be babies. Anet didnt help with there poor job of establishing rules/roster/ trades etc etc.

So i guess overall i agree, Anet really needs to think about this Esport thing because its a bit hard to look at.

Wanna emphasize that a lot of the gw2 pvp population are kids.. too much drama.

What does Drama have to do with kids? I love drama, it spices things up.
The ability to act like an adult if necessary isn´t limited to adults. Adults themselves are incapable to behave reasonable in a lot of cases, too.
At the same time I think being childish once in a while or deep inside you lets you actually enjoy games like that. Being childish all the time and in wrong moments is something different.

To the topic. I don´t enjoy watching proleague since the ddos on frostball. All the kitten that happened afterwards moved it further away from being interesting.

Vermillion is far better currently then TCG imo (don´t kow how the scrims went, so many secrets :P – Helseth claimed that they won most scrims last season, but weren´t able to show that when it mattered), so TCG being on second place now isn´t anywhere ok for (and don´t understand me wrong, I have nothing explicitly against TCG or ANY other proleague team. All my interest goes into having a entertaining proleague I actually enjoy watching (and there were some great matches at the beginning of this season). vM vs TCG debacle, oRNG – TCG debacle, CC – Frostball debacle. What we end with is exactly one team I like to watch right now and that is 55.

We won 99% of the scrims and dominated hardcore in scrims

kdaddy.5431:

^^^ i had to make the comment because i saw that PvtFrosty made a thread about the state of EU Pro League.

Bluri told sam here above to stop.

So obviously you have a whole bunch of people who all know each other and cry. Its simply bickering and complaining when not getting there way. even if the viewer ship is small they could of at least acted decent.

The fact that they didnt kind of proves what you say.

The only thing I replied to him was that the rules that was sent out for S2 of Pro Leauge has no rules regarding "TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG. "

Every Pro Leauge player got an email regarding 2016-03-15 “GW2 Pro League Season 2 Intro?” with the new rules attached and there is no rule against playing against the former team. What Sam writes/links is the rules from Season1 where the rules applied too.

This is the only thing I had to say, rest I have no opinion about nor care about

^^^^ completely understandable, was just throwing my 2 cents into the wishing well.

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Well said.

Its funny how they do esports as “marketing” and yet all it has done is have a negative effect on the games image.

Everything this guy says is fact imo

Coronit.9432:

StickerHappy.8052:

kdaddy.5431:

XSamX.7182:

Sam here. Hello everyone.

To clarify the situation I will just poke in my 2 cents. Trashtalk me as you want, I really don’t care. I just post this for everyone who wants to know exactly what happened.

I am not someone who plays unfair. I don’t wanted to get an advantage out of this. We got our 4th-5th place set if we would have played normally, and even if we would have had beaten TCG, we would have just get 3rd place, so not really much more money or anything.

So, why did I do this then? Vermillion got DDOS’ed (from guys, who are in proleague, because they know the rules exactly), everyone, even the guys that don’t play PvP and stuff know EXACTLY what happened in the game TCG vs. VM. Since ESL and Arenanet both didn’t give Vermillion a fair chance to rematch, I decided to give them atleast a chance, to beat 55hp and beat TCG and get their Spot which they deserved into the finals. Since they beaten TCG with 200 Points lead, I thought for myself, that this is unfair as hell, but no one helped them.

I stated it a lot and everyone knows that I was in my finals exam for my apprenticeship. That’s why I didn’t got much time to spend on Training for GW2. (You can see that in the first weeks, were we played with Kanscout over me, even though Mesmer was better obviously.) But even if I would have had time, I would not be as good of a mesmer as Frostball.

I loved this game, but I never loved the Proleague, because it’s just unfair over and over and over again. Car Crashed got trashtalked by every Proleague Team, no one did something against it. I said something about Helseth, and gets instantly messages from ESL guys.
TCG matchfixed their match against Orng, which would get you banned immediatiely in other games and Rom even admited it, ON STREAM. Nothing happened.
TCG played with Rom and Denshee against Orange Logo, which is not allowed, it’s stated in the official rules in ESL. But ESL is changing this rules mid season, for TCG.
Someone ddos’ed Vermillion, no rematch, no afk, no 4 v 4, no changing rules, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you call this fair? If so, don’t read more of this text.

Frostball got DDOS protection and everything, and they still insisted on their rule, that everyone needs to work their own protection. So they literally stated, that unfair behaviour is getting rewarded, and that DDOS is allowed or what?

And this was kittening me off so hard, that I decided to do that. I know it was wrong, and if the DDOS didn’t happen, I would have not gone for this stupid behaviour. I did this by myself, together with Frostball. My team did not know what Frostball and me planned, but they got banned out of it. But yeah, what ever, Fair play is the best play, right?

I love this game, it’s the one I played from beta, and enjoyed 3 and a half year now. Even though the balance was a problem from the start, even though I get trashtalked a lot (when I joined Car Crash, and I did NOTHING, everyone hated Posi and Zapdos, and so hated me, because of my Guild Tag, getting guys who tell me to DDOS me and stuff.)

But yeah. The game is now dead to me. Not because of Guild Wars 2. It’s still a great game, but because of Proleague.

I am sad that everything worked out like this, because the whole Proleague is not watchable. Of course I did something wrong, I am not proud of it or anything and I would not say ever, do the same. I will take the consequences as an adult as usal. If the DDOS would have not happened, I would have not done this 100%. But if I could continuum split back, I would probably do the same again, because i think it was the right thing to do for Vermillion.

And yeah, someone talked on Whisper Chat. It was not me, but I don’t want to blame anything, on anyone. So I don’t need to say the name.

Peace out, hopefully I see you in a year or in other games and I wish good luck for Arenanet. That they will do more good stuff for this game. But they should let go of the Esport. It’s just not ment to be.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english.

Best regards,

Sam

Im completely fine with you posting this and i appreciate you giving insight on your feelings towards it.

Though it goes back to everything ive ever said about Pro Leagues and the people in it.

You guys are kids, you are talking about fair and the rules. Anyone whos played a real sport competitively knows the ref doesnt always make the right calls and most of the time the sponsor tries to do it better the next time instead of back tracking.

You brought up money, so lets just put this back into perspective. You guys get paid to play a game. You dont give your bodys to the game. You give time/mind and you can easily move on. Also you guys get to pick how much time you put into it.

I watched some of the Pro League today and you heard the Vermillion player crying and you had other Pro League player commenting what did you expect?

How about for people getting payed to play the game to not be babies. Anet didnt help with there poor job of establishing rules/roster/ trades etc etc.

So i guess overall i agree, Anet really needs to think about this Esport thing because its a bit hard to look at.

Wanna emphasize that a lot of the gw2 pvp population are kids.. too much drama.

What does Drama have to do with kids? I love drama, it spices things up.
The ability to act like an adult if necessary isn´t limited to adults. Adults themselves are incapable to behave reasonable in a lot of cases, too.
At the same time I think being childish once in a while or deep inside you lets you actually enjoy games like that. Being childish all the time and in wrong moments is something different.

To the topic. I don´t enjoy watching proleague since the ddos on frostball. All the kitten that happened afterwards moved it further away from being interesting.

Vermillion is far better currently then TCG imo (don´t kow how the scrims went, so many secrets :P – Helseth claimed that they won most scrims last season, but weren´t able to show that when it mattered), so TCG being on second place now isn´t anywhere ok for (and don´t understand me wrong, I have nothing explicitly against TCG or ANY other proleague team. All my interest goes into having a entertaining proleague I actually enjoy watching (and there were some great matches at the beginning of this season). vM vs TCG debacle, oRNG – TCG debacle, CC – Frostball debacle. What we end with is exactly one team I like to watch right now and that is 55.

The adult thing is very true, but from a competitive adult aspect. There is very serious actions taken on you even at the HS level in a sport. Go to a party with drugs or alcohol. You get kicked from the team, potential scholarships lost. A billion things in college. All im trying to say is the last 2 Pro seasons have been filled with questionable child behavior such as im taking my ball and going home.

Drama is good from a competitive aspect. For instance OE facing Astral/ABjured last week and you saw the broad casters making notice of OE winning a 2 vs 2 with nos in it.

ORNG vs TCG was one to look for. Thats Competitve drama. The things about strawberry beer and not caring about pro leagues because Anet screwed us cry was a bit much to take.

Lastly it doesnt matter about scrims, it doesnt matter about other things. All that matters is who shows up on game day. The best teams dont always make it to the destination they are suppose to.