Guild Wars 2

Rodzynald.5897:

Shaogin.2679:

Some people whined about condi damage. Yeah, it obviously must be fact.

It’s posts like yours that make it real hard for anyone to take you people seriously.

I’d like to understand why I mostly hear about condi than about power damage that is to blame in certain situations.
I played PvP in many games that include DoT type of dealing harm to others and I met with many people telling me that condi is just for those who like that stand in a safe spot and watching people melt. Even some of my guildies that have about few K’s of matches played and reached legend divs say the same that condi in this game is ridiculous.
You seem to have good arguments about condition damage, but can you tell me why people look at condi in such a harsh manner? Are you gonna tell me that they are just scrubs and that’s all?
Are you gonna tell me that condi is not dropping dots and watching people die in time?

It’s still landing attacks and being rewarded for it. The big reason you hear about condi is that there’s been a power-dominated meta for at least a year, probably much longer, so people are having trouble adapting to a mixed damage meta.

drcraig.9403:

Pyriall.1683:

It takes the same amount of button presses to condi-bomb someone as it does to burst them in this game. Don’t fool yourself into believing that power builds require any more skill than condition builds. There is very little skill to either.

Mashing buttons and running away while the condi does it’s thing doesn’t seem the same to me.

Incorrect, Condi bomb is down in less than 10 seconds. It’s condi burst don’t get confused becasue they used bomb instead of burst.

Power builds are the exact same way. You are not some awesome exception.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

shion.2084:

Now show me what a reasonable power build that could actually play ranked can do in a single hit if they get lucky… and remember I haven’t added might, or any of the actual damage from the hit itself, or any of the conditions that hit would directly apply ie. napalm setting on fire for 6 additional seconds.

Pretty much any power build will do more dmg than your condi scrapper build, which is as “reasonable” as signet burst thief or zerk gunflame warrior or valk melee ranger – all builds which can hit for 10k+ in one single hit, with overall much higher dmg output.

(Btw IP is one of the condi traits i hate the most, because i think it is too much dmg for being an unavoidable proc – but overall condi engi/scrapper is far from being op and clearly subpar to power scrapper).

My numbers show over 10k of potential damage in a single hit, not counting the hit and whatever it does by itself. Plus I’m not adding might. and I showed the build. So by claiming 10K + you haven’t actually, when just considering total potential damage, supported your claim.

My point wasn’t whether a condi or power scrapper was better but to address the comment about how a power in one hit could apply vastly more damage and a condi would have to hit multiple times to build up conditions to eventually do what a single hit could from a power build.

Now why do you think a power scrapper is necessarily better than someone who hybrids or does condi. I run both and I find actually the condi is vastly better against certain classes (ele bunkers), and has situational advantages depending on play style.

Azukas.1426:

Please answer by which takes more skill

1. Power Mesmer vs Condi Mesmer
2. Power Necro vs Condi Necro
3. Power Thief vs Condi Thief
4. Power warrior vs Condi warrior
5. Power engi vs Condi engi
6. Power Ranger vs Condi ranger
7. Power guardian vs Condi guardian
8. Power Ele vs Condi Ele
9. Power Rev vs Condi Rev

Pretty sure condi wins out being the easiest in just about every case

Wrong, they’re the same.

1. Which one shatters clones for damage? Hmmmm…I wonder how hitting one button is harder than hitting another button based on your stats.
2. Depending on the power variant, you’re hitting 4 buttons for your burst and depending on the condition variant you’re hitting hmmmm…4 buttons.
3. Thief…power 4 button burst, condition thief…4 button burst, I’m finding a pattern here.
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 pretty much the same as 1-3.

The major difference, which has been partially rectified by the removal of Mercenary amulet, was the tankiness and sustain of condition builds. Outside of warrior, condition Mesmer, thief, engi, rev, and necro can all be burst down as easily.

People seem to believe that if one “presses more buttons” one is a more skillful player. You do not press more buttons just for the sake of it. You press the button you feel the most useful at the time given how the enemy player reacts. If the enemy does not adapt to a 3/dodge with utility using theif using DB then the best thing to do is continue that same cycle.

Skill in the game is how you react to an enemy in an ongoing fight and not the number of different buttons pressed.

Now for those who want to count button presses.

A Condition bomb off my p/p hybrid thief that I use in WvW looks like something like this.

He an Asura traited in sa/dd/trickery.

Steal to opponent loading Confusion. In stealth so immediately use Pain inverter. That 8 stacks confusion. Blind on stealth was traited so I use the sneak attack. I am now revealed so move back and do an interrupt with head shot (traited for pressure strike). Load up one venom (skale) and do some unloads as INI permits mixed with AA attacks. These unloads do good raw damage and get the ticks off conditions on the enemy running harder via might. As needed smoke field with a bounding dodger in the same for stealth and another sneak attack.

The “numbers of button pressed” are every bit comparable to any power thief build and it begs the question. Given this a hybrid and gets very good damage off both conditions and power , were I to just have different stats and be totally power based would it suddenly become a “skill build”?

At the end of the day it comes down to the amount of conditions placed on you vs how many cleanses you have available. As far as 1v1 situations and even damage goes, power and condi builds should be just about even. Problem is, its a team game and 2 players putting conditions on you is already more than your cleanse can keep up. Put 5 players on a team, all corrupting boons and all placing every condition on the game to the entire team in seconds and there is nothing you can do. Its not even a proper fight at that point.

I would also like to add that condition builds are more forgiving because you don’t have to constantly be attacking or be within melee range for damage (not all classes but a prime example is power warrior vs condi warrior)

FrownyClown.8402:

At the end of the day it comes down to the amount of conditions placed on you vs how many cleanses you have available. As far as 1v1 situations and even damage goes, power and condi builds should be just about even. Problem is, its a team game and 2 players putting conditions on you is already more than your cleanse can keep up. Put 5 players on a team, all corrupting boons and all placing every condition on the game to the entire team in seconds and there is nothing you can do. Its not even a proper fight at that point.

I would also like to add that condition builds are more forgiving because you don’t have to constantly be attacking or be within melee range for damage (not all classes but a prime example is power warrior vs condi warrior)

The same holds true if you put two or more power builds on you…

shion.2084:

My numbers show over 10k of potential damage in a single hit, not counting the hit and whatever it does by itself. Plus I’m not adding might. and I showed the build. So by claiming 10K + you haven’t actually, when just considering total potential damage, supported your claim.

You showed a build that has close to zero dmg outside from IP procs and IA (long cd). Yes, if you are lucky and everything procs at once and the target doesn’t cleanse you can deal 10k+ dmg over 8 seconds with a single hit (no burst). So what? Without further dmg your enemy might be able outheal this, and this is even without cleanses …

I’m too lazy to make some screenshots of 10k+ burst, but it is definitely possible (with luck of course) for some power builds and you can easily test it yourself against target golems if you want. Those builds won’t be very strong in actual PvP at higher skill levels for several reasons, but they can work just as well as your condi build. So in the end those numbers are pretty meaningless and prove nothing.

FrownyClown.8402:

I would also like to add that condition builds are more forgiving because you don’t have to constantly be attacking or be within melee range for damage (not all classes but a prime example is power warrior vs condi warrior)

Condi wars need to be in melee range for optimal condi bomb, outside of that they are even more vulnerable to kiting then power wars, cuz they lack movement skills from GS.

Rodzynald.5897:

Uhmm… yes? Isn’t that obvious?
But you can’t dodge (unless daredevil) for days, at some point you will get hit and get those condis that sometimes deal as much damage as power abilities, every 1 second.
DS is quite easy to kite, clones too or just pop them with some hard AoE.
For headbutt? It is a little bit harder to dodge it in the right time in all that cluster of magic particles flying around during a teamfight. Perhaps in 1v1 but let’s consider the 1/2 second cast time and animation, how close warrior is. (let’s add up lower fps if one does not have a beast to run GW2)

You can’t dodge all power attacks either. If you get hit by a power attack, and get hit by a condi attack, that condi attack will not deal the same damage that power attacks deals in 1 second. It will deal its damage over time, giving you more time to react and possible prevent the full damage of the attack. Where on the other hand if you got hit by that power attack, the damage is done, there is nothing else to react to, you were hit, the damage is there.

Why is this so hard to understand?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

shion.2084:

My numbers show over 10k of potential damage in a single hit, not counting the hit and whatever it does by itself. Plus I’m not adding might. and I showed the build. So by claiming 10K + you haven’t actually, when just considering total potential damage, supported your claim.

You showed a build that has close to zero dmg outside from IP procs and IA (long cd). Yes, if you are lucky and everything procs at once and the target doesn’t cleanse you can deal 10k+ dmg over 8 seconds with a single hit (no burst). So what? Without further dmg your enemy might be able outheal this, and this is even without cleanses …

I’m too lazy to make some screenshots of 10k+ burst, but it is definitely possible (with luck of course) for some power builds and you can easily test it yourself against target golems if you want. Those builds won’t be very strong in actual PvP at higher skill levels for several reasons, but they can work just as well as your condi build. So in the end those numbers are pretty meaningless and prove nothing.

They prove 2 things, that the original poster was incorrect in their assertion regarding the single hit argument, and that it isn’t particularly relevant and thus their point contingent on this argument either.

Which is exactly what I was intending to show.

QED

how, i repeat, HOW?! are there so many people as kittening thick as the op?!

Unterkiefer.8372:

Condition shatter mesmer has a completely different playstyle than power shatter. Here is why:

Power mesmer:
- set up your 3 illusions so that they are placed near the enemy
- press f3 and f1 (refill illusions to 3 in between if necessary)
- dmg
- if target is dead stop here
- kite the target from range while waiting for cd
- repeat

Condition Mesmer:
- set up your 3 illusions so that they are placed near the enemy
- press f2, f3 and f1 (refill illusions to 3 in between if necessary)
- dmg
- if target is dead stop here
- kite the target from range while waiting for cd
- repeat

As you see its so different and boring to play.

Haha, so true.

Power shatter is no less “boring” than condi or hybrid shatter. It’s the same old burst around F1 combos repeated again and again and again. I used to be a diehard gs/s/t power shatter but it became so unbelievably boring…

Funnily enough I find hybrid shatter more fun to play now than pure power.

Raek.8504:

FrownyClown.8402:

I would also like to add that condition builds are more forgiving because you don’t have to constantly be attacking or be within melee range for damage (not all classes but a prime example is power warrior vs condi warrior)

Condi wars need to be in melee range for optimal condi bomb, outside of that they are even more vulnerable to kiting then power wars, cuz they lack movement skills from GS.

Can confirm. Against engi’s especially I’d say 90% of my damage is actually from longbow or ranged utility.

Condi bomb is absolutely not viable as opposed to steady condi spam because all it takes to remove it is the same two presses. You can even do lulzy things with condi bomb as guard or necro.

Its your problem that you replace all your condi cleanse with Moar Damages.

Lol! Really, condi = power? HAHA

Really trying to compare 3k ticks to power attacks? Come on. Whenever I play condi warrior I just drop people like flies left and right. Don’t even need to finish my combos, just leave em half way and down they go.

And that once again proves my point that You are all nooblings!

I faced condi warrior, i blocked first attack, i evaded second, i cleansed the condies and i kept fighting him and his necro friend for fifteen seconds until the reinforcements came.

Just like, srsly, guys, put in at least ‘some’ cleanse?

drcraig.9403:

Sorry but imho opinion condi builds are for lazy players. Drop a bomb and stay away. It baffles me that people actually find it fun to play condi builds. LAZY! I remember when condition damage was supplemental to power damage and in that, there was balance. When a player has to spend the entire encounter cleansing condi’s it screams something wrong. Condi builds take no skill whatsoever to play.

Agree, disagree?

What prompted me to post this in part is due to last weekend. I had some time to kill and ended up watching about an hour of spvp matches from about a year ago. There was a noticeable difference in gameplay. Fights were more intense and the skill level was obvious. People can claim you push the same amount of buttons, and that’s certainty true. I think it’s ignorant to claim that bursting with power is the same as bursting with condi. Power bursting starts and stops with each attack and therefore takes more skill to keep up pressure. If that doesn’t make sense this game is lost. Thankfully there’s a lot of competition in the gaming world these days.

+1 +1 +1
… but things will never change.

ionix.9054:

… but things will never change.

On their own yes because how could they?

Condition builds are indeed for more laid back playstyle. You usually can recover fairly easily. Only a handful of condi builds actually need the cherry on top of +condition damage to be effective. Most of the time you don’t really need that many important skills to actually land… The runes + sigils + passive makes it up for you (maybe a little less in PVP since they removed the runes that are way over the top).

A candy for the eyes… From the guy who got fireworks banned from World vs World : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

Roamers and duelers know what I’m talking about : Go power or go home!

Even power builds is more fun when doing random stuff!

Proof : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fTHbhxCCzA

Beach asuraball XD

Noobs never slot in stability…